 I'd like to welcome everyone to the justice section today following the Home Secretary's speech. This session was meant to be led by Lord Clark, Ken Clark, interviewing the Lord Chancellor, and I'm very sorry that he can't be with us. He is and has been a fantastic lawyer, politician for so many years, an MP for 50 years, and was in fact Secretary of State when you came to Parliament, Robert, all those years ago. So I'm sorry that I'm standing in for him today. But I'd like to talk to you, Robert, about what you want to achieve. We do know that, well I know, having spoken to you many times, that you think every department should be a justice department and there is real importance in the justice system. What do you want to achieve as Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State? Well, becoming Lord Chancellor was really the latest stage on quite a journey for me through the justice system both as a barrister, as a part-time judge, as a parliamentarian representing constituents with real issues. And now, after the best part of 30 years in the system, I have a great opportunity to make the change that I felt has been needed for so long. And I think there's one word that really sums up what I want to achieve, and that's confidence. I want a higher degree of confidence amongst the public that the justice system will deliver safer streets, better communities, and be the end product of a whole government approach which does involve every department making sure it's doing its part to prevent people from getting into the system in the first place and to reduce the risk of crime, because crimes cost our country billions of pounds. In fact, the latest estimate was about 18 billion pounds being caused by re-offending. Now, it's not just a financial cost, there's an emotional and a societal cost as well. And therefore, when I look back upon the time that I've had in office, if I've been able to achieve a higher degree of confidence then I will be satisfied that my work was not in vain. Those are all very, very important things, and you really focus there on confidence which is absolutely important. Do you think that the sentencing white paper that you published last month is key to that confidence in the justice system and what do you want to achieve through that sentencing white paper? Well, the sentencing white paper, the policy document that is the blueprint of our plan, was a vital staging post to announce our intentions, not just in terms of changing the law, but also changing the way in which the justice system works. And you, as the Minister of State for Prisons and Probation, will be playing a key role in making sure that those services are reformed and are improved in a way that I think the public will approve of. I think the sentencing white paper really comes at it in many different ways. We are dealing with serious and dangerous offenders in a more robust manner by making sure that they serve greater parts of their sentence in custody, but at the same time we're doing more to deal with community sentences, to strengthen mental health treatment, to improve drug and alcohol addiction programmes, to really embrace electronic monitoring and to use tags in a way that perhaps we haven't seen in this country before. All underpinned by radical reforms to the probation service are ramping up of the number of probation officers and a real sense, again, of bringing together agencies like the police and the probation service to supervise offenders more effectively in our community. The sentencing white paper takes a smart approach to sentencing and what I mean by that is an approach that makes sure that we are using our resources in the wisest way possible to not just protect the public from serious offenders, but also to reduce re-offending, that we know is a real problem when it comes to that cycle of crime that is all too familiar to many people listening and which is a real blight on a lot of our communities. Reducing re-offending is really important and I know that much of my time is spent in our department working on how we reduce re-offending, stopping that cycle of crime, as you say, and letting people turn their backs on crime. But also as a constituency MP, I'm very aware of the importance that we have of ensuring that justice serves victims. I remember going to constituency meetings where people, surgeries, people have come to me and they've said something terrible happened to me. I was a victim of crime and I want to ensure that I get justice. What are you doing to ensure that victims do get justice? The department and I work very closely with victims groups and other organisations that eloquently advocate on behalf of those people who totally, through no fault of their own, end up in a system that can often feel alien, can feel lengthy in terms of process and a system which isn't necessarily geared to their welfare or their interests as well as it should be. And that's why it's incumbent upon us to continue to press forward with reforms to the system. So very shortly we'll be publishing a new revised victims code written simply and clearly in a concise way to help victims navigate their way around the system. And we're going to go one stage further and underpin that with a victim's law to enshrine the rights of victims to be consulted, to have information, to have all the sort of support that frankly is taken for granted in other areas of public life to be enshrined in law so that there is an obligation upon the Ministry of Justice on all the agencies working within it to put victims at the heart of the system rather than as an afterthought or an add-on which frankly has been the case for too long. I'm very keen. I've asked some of the key questions I think that are asked of me from time to time. But I'm very keen to get your questions in. So do put questions in as I'd like to ask the Lord Chancellor some of your questions. But just while I'm waiting for some of those I'd like to touch on something that you talked about about reducing re-offending which is very close to my heart as I mentioned. And I did a panel the other day and I spoke to a young gentleman who had been an offender at 18. He'd committed a number of knife crimes and he'd spent time inside. But he'd come out, he was then 27 and he said he was working for a charity that helped other people turn their lives around. And I said to him how many people do you think want to change? How many people do you think we can help with the support such as the support you're giving? And he said 100% because no one really wants to be a criminal. So what do you think the key things that we're doing in the department are to stop that cycle of crime and reduce that re-offending? Well I've heard that story in many others like it not just as Lord Chancellor but as a practitioner representing young offenders, meeting victims of crime, meeting people who have ended up into a cycle of criminality and who frankly don't know how to get out of it. And I think there are three things that any responsible government should be seeking to do when it comes to reducing re-offending. That is a home, a job and a friend. And by that I mean accommodation, stable accommodation. I mean a job and a friend could be in the form of treatment or some sort of supervision that ensures that people are making the right choices rather than reverting back to a life of crime. I've seen the results, where it works it means that people turn away from that cycle but we've got to do it better. And this is where the other departments of state come in, this is where local government comes in and not just government but also the private sector, industry and business. Yesterday I was on a very interesting fringe meeting at here at conference talking with not just a private enterprise who was employing people with previous convictions but a charity and indeed a worker who himself had been in the criminal justice system. And again the message was very clear that where we can bring the private sector, charity and government together we can start to nail this problem and our ambitions in this area are high. The prime minister believes fundamentally in employment as a way out of criminality and I'm supported by my friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions and indeed other ministers in the cabinet who share this bold ambition and we'll be hearing more about the detail of this in the weeks ahead. I think when I meet businesses who employ ex-offenders they say contrary to their perhaps initial expectation they are loyal because they've been given a chance and they respect that and they work harder and there's a recent Ugov study which says I think 75% of people would be happy to be served by an ex-offender. So we need to change those perceptions and I think you and others in government are making great strides in that area. What we do and it's companies like Timpsons, Greggs, other large companies and often very much smaller enterprises that are making that leap of faith but are finding a great reward in the commitment and loyalty of the people who are working for them. I think there's a combination of things we can do. Yes, changing the culture is one of them but also looking at ways in which we make sure that the system doesn't unintentionally hold people back from employment and that's why in the Centre for White Paper we are looking at the necessary safeguards reducing the time in which somebody has to declare a previous conviction to an employer or practical measures designed to make sure that we have a ready supply of people who are able to work particularly at a time when we are looking at the labour market working out where our source and supply should come from and frankly I think these people these ex-offenders, we need them to get into the labour market to do those jobs that we have a shortage of supply in at the moment. Yes, now we're having this conversation now and obviously all the things that we've touched on are absolutely critical but we're doing it against a backdrop of Covid and as a prisons minister I know the challenges that we've had in prisons and obviously courts as well. How do you think the justice system has reacted to the Covid pandemic? Well, the pandemic posed a peacetime challenge to the system like no other and I know both you and I and fellow ministers were working and continue to work daily to look at the operation of each element of the Ministry of Justice and in prisons we were faced with some pretty stark information and evidence about the potential danger of the Covid pandemic to the system. As a result of the incredible work done by Her Majesty's Prison and Probation Service the prison officers, the support staff everybody linked to it we managed to contain the virus to a very low number indeed and although we did suffer some deaths the number was below 30 and I think that that was a testament to the coming together of various elements of government and our daily dedication to making sure that the pandemic didn't become a disaster frankly in the system and then on the court side unlike virtually every other jurisdiction we didn't close for business we kept the courts going through the crisis and we started jury trials up earlier than anybody else we're now running well over 100 to 150 jury trials every week in England and Wales I think our friends in Canada might have just started back up again with one or two trials but it shows the degree of organisation of dedication and also imagination to get things moving and through the combination of perspex and other safety measures we've managed to open more and more existing courts and I've announced various new initiatives with Nightingale courts we'll have by the end of the month about 30 courtrooms additional to normal capacity and indeed a whole range of different measures being taken across the country to build back better and to also deal with some of the existing case load that I know was a concern to many who were anxiously waiting to either give evidence or see the outcome of the case in which they were a complainant I'm very keen to get some more questions in on those watching but whilst I again wait for some very interesting questions I hope will come through I thought it touched on something that is asked to me a lot which is about the professions they are critical to the running of the justice system particularly the criminal bar but of course the civil bar as well criminal solicitors everyone has their part to play in what is one of our greatest service industries which helps provide the bedrock of justice what are we doing what are you doing what do you want to do more to protect the professions which are upholding the rule of law Well as somebody was at the bar for over 20 years I feel a deep commitment to the ethos and the independence of our legal professions who are part of what we describe as our rule of law approach in the UK without them the system just would not work and therefore it's the duty I think of any law chancellor to make sure that those professions are adequately resourced that they are in a position where they can provide that vital service and I think in the sphere of criminal legal aid we've already announced important additional funding to criminal legal aid fees and we're going to do a wider review of the system because I want to make sure that we have that range of providers out there criminal solicitors and barristers doing the work that I did for so many years in south Wales but it doesn't stop there because as you say we have a vibrant legal services industry both here in London and indeed in across the country which provides a huge amount of not just gross domestic products here but also as an export value too and Britain and England and Wales and Scotland and Northern Ireland the three jurisdictions reputation as world leading centres for litigation, arbitration and dispute resolution means that we stand in a very good position indeed to be a global beacon of rule of law and legal process of course underpin not just by a robust and independent legal legal profession but also a world class judiciary and the judiciary that we have here in England and Wales and in Scotland and Northern Ireland I think is second to none we've just celebrated the opening of the legal year on Thursday that again is a timely reminder not just of the ancient traditions of our legal system but of the enduring power of the rule of law and the message we can send to fellow jurisdictions in the Commonwealth and I think of Hong Kong as well at this time and I think of all those jurisdictions in other parts of the world that sadly face direct challenges to their independence and threats to the rule of law that we must be vigilant about and stand shoulder to shoulder with fellow legal colleagues across the world to defend You're right to say that we are a beacon of justice and many countries look to us and there are I think some advantages and some possibilities and opportunities in the trade negotiations that are coming up but I've got some really interesting questions that have come in so I'm going to turn to one of those Why is it that foreign criminals can stay in this country even after they've committed a crime? Do you think this needs to change? Well the question about foreign criminals is one that has long bedeviled the system the government did indeed them Ministry of Justice, the Home Office worked tirelessly to effectively deport and repatriate criminals who do not have British citizenship so when their sentences served we have a presumption for everybody who has a sentence of more than 12 months that they should be deported however that takes the cooperation of the country of origin for it to work effectively and whilst we do deport many thousands of offenders every year I get and I know the Home Secretary as well we both get frustrated at the fact that there are often obstacles in our path because other countries just won't recognise their responsibility and accept back the individuals who need to be removed from our jurisdiction I think the combined approach of the Ministry of Justice and the Home Office and the sense of energy that we have about this means that we are already making inroads into those numbers but I believe that with the robust proposals that we've heard today from the Home Secretary coupled with a renewed sense of purpose about the way in which we manage these foreign offenders we will start to see better results in the years ahead the way that we manage them in our prison system is I think vastly improved from only a few years ago and we are very conscious of our duty to make sure that these people are not lost to the system and not sort of left or disregarded once their prison term is up whilst I do not underestimate the difficulty of this challenge I do think that in this government you have a combined purpose and a political will to improve the current situation now the questions are flowing in thick and fast and I'm going to pick one on prisons because obviously that is an area very close to my heart so how are we keeping our prisons more safe for staff what are you going to do to make them safer well the prison building programme which will be the biggest in a generation is an opportunity for us to provide more modern, new and better space not just for prisoners but also for staff to work in as well we have just seen the near completion of the new prison at Wellingborough we are about to embark upon more prison building in fact when the Prime Minister came into office last year one of his first announcements was a £2.5 billion investment into prison building and it's important because it will create the safer space and a better environment in which staff can work and also when the PM came into office he made an announcement of a £100 million investment in airport style security in more and more of our prisons and since then, despite Covid we started to roll out this programme to many many reception prisons particularly those prisons where there's a particular vulnerability to not just safety but also contraband and items being brought into prison that really shouldn't be there and I know that prison staff are delighted to see this investment they feel valued, they feel safer and it is making a huge contribution I think to their sense of wellbeing but there's more that can be done I'm particularly concerned about assaults against prison officers this is why as a result of a consultation we've just completed the Government will legislate very soon to double the maximum sentence available for an assault on an emergency worker which of course includes a prison officer it'll go up from one to two years and indeed the message has gone out very clearly that where assaults on prison officers occur we will not tolerate them and we will see more prosecution and much more a higher degree of justice for those valiant prison officers who are on the front line doing everything they can to make our prisons safe and to protect the public You're absolutely right to talk about the value of the prison officers and the important role they're doing and they are some of our hidden heroes during this crisis of doing a tremendous job and I've heard reports of prisoners going out and recognising that prison officers are coming in risking coming in and given the virus and the work that they do We haven't got very much time left so I'm just going to get in one further question Yes and you might need to keep your answer short to this because we're running out of time unfortunately but it is a topic that comes up a lot in Parliament I know which is about terrorism and someone's asked how can we better use the justice system to keep terrorists off our streets for longer Well we've already taken decisive action in the wake of the Fishmongers Hall and Stretter Matrosities by passing emergency legislation on automatic early release of terrorist offenders That was at a stroke a way I think of safeguarding and protecting the public from terrorism We are currently legislating even further to create stronger and tougher sentences for the most serious terrorism offences and to make sure these people are monitored for longer once they release the combination of legislation plus increased investment into counter-terrorism and extra £20 million in the last year alone now brings the amount invested into counter-terrorism up to nearly a billion pounds We are spending that in a way that doesn't just incarcerate but also work to prevent and deter and protect members of the public from the risk of future terrorism It's a constant battle Lucy We have to be vigilant about all types of terrorism but the government is absolutely dedicated to dealing with this scourge and to keeping our streets safe I'm not sure whether that brings us to the end I hope I've got time I think this is a question from my constituent which is great to see James, thanks very much for your question What advice do you have for young Conservatives looking for a career in law or politics? James, I think that the future is bright I think that we actually need I'm going to be controversial now more lawyers in politics like you and me because I think the law teaches you about the need to base your decision-making on evidence but it also gives you a sense of justice a sense of outrage on behalf of the people you're representing which I think makes for a very, very good constituency MP or councillor or elected representative You've got to have an interest in people first and foremost I think it will be ineffective, particularly a criminal lawyer and I would say that the future is there open for any young Conservative who wants to get into the world of law and develop their skills Politics I think should be a calling I think the law certainly taught me so much about who I am and what I can contribute and frankly it made me by the time I got elected I think a better politician I'm more informed about the people who I represented the people who, despite the fact that they may commit serious offences and may end up in custody still need representation to underpin the principle that we all live under the rule of law and they were all equal under the law and those principles must endure and as law Chancellor I will continue to stand up for that Well I obviously agree with you I think law is a great basis for politics in terms of the skills and understanding of the society that we all represent and I think that might be where we have to leave it but thank you very much Lord Chancellor and I'm sorry that again that we didn't have Ken Clark interviewing you today but I'm sure that will happen on another occasion with his incisive questions and great expertise but thank you very much