 expectations. Jonathan, thank you very much indeed. Well, let's get more now. I'm joined by Dr Yuka Kobayashi. She's a lecturer and assistant professor in China international politics at SOAS at the University of London. Thank you so much for joining us on impact. And let me ask you, were there any points in those readouts and what we heard from President Biden that really stuck out for you today? Yes, I think it was a very interesting meeting. I think 3.5 hours. It tells you that they actually got through quite a lot. And in a sense, it could be quite positive in the sense that they had so much to talk about and cover. And it could be also taken as a negative in the sense that there were so many things they needed to hammer out in terms of what were the red lines regarding Taiwan. And I thought it was quite interesting that Biden also talked about how the relationship between the United States and China had really become quite tense and that these things need to be managed. And in other kind of instances regarding this meeting, he's also talked about how they needed to better the relationships and to take leadership in this rule-based order. So I think it's quite interesting in the sense that there's quite promise for quite a positive road ahead for more communication, which he emphasized over and over again in his press conference, and also a lot of issues to be quite handled, especially Taiwan. Absolutely. I wanted to ask you about that because always a diplomatic tightrope, isn't it, Taiwan for the United States? And unequivocally, President Biden saying we still stick to our one China policy. And China, again, talking about Taiwan being very much a red line, what do you see moving forward in terms of the relationship between these two countries on Taiwan? I think the hidden thing is here. There was a lot of talk about Ukraine. And what's happened in Ukraine and what Russia has done in Ukraine has become a real lesson for China. So although there's a lot of posturing coming from China regarding unification with Taiwan, and especially going into his third term after the meeting last month, we see a much more assertive Xi Jinping. And it really does create tensions. But because Xi has been the sidelines observing what's happening in Ukraine with Putin, I think that is a real lesson in the sense that there's a lot of talk and discussions and a lot of military posturing. Whether or not it's going into conflict, I think there's going to be a lot more calculations and strategy. And we've got to bear in mind that Xi Jinping and Biden actually go way back even before they took their leadership roles in the sense that they had a really good working relationship. So I'm quite positive in opening these channels, having this communication between Xi Jinping and Biden would actually lead to more kind of progressive sort of discussion around the issue of Taiwan. And I would actually be a little bit optimistic that there may be some kind of peaceful resolution. So you think in effect that looking at what happened to Russia because of what happened in Ukraine is in effect putting China off doing anything else? I think it's a big lesson in a sense, you know, right at the beginning it looked as though Russia was actually quite strong, but we're actually seeing much more deterioration on the Russian front. And what happens with the international community unified behind Ukraine, which is a big lesson for China. And you've got to bear in mind a war over Taiwan would be really costly for China as well. So although you have a lot of these kinds of posturing and this military kind of assertiveness, we've got to bear in mind the last thing China wants is a costly war. And I'd like to really look at sort of the history of the relationship between Xi Jinping and Biden and try to put my cards on perhaps some more conversations about these areas between the two that have had this relationship going way back would be leading to a more peaceful resolution on that front. And interesting, isn't it how when our correspondent Jonathan had talked about the warmth and affection that President Trump used to speak about President Xi is not there with President Biden, but that isn't necessarily translating in a lack of willingness to talk, is it? Absolutely. You heard over and over and in the press conference about communications, something blinking over. So there's a lot of promise about dialogue. And I think what you're seeing from Biden is not empty promises, but actually a real concrete plan to manage this conflict and try to resolve it in a peaceful manner, which I hope that they're able to do going forward. Okay, Dr. Yuka Kobayashi, it's been so good to talk to you. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.