 Cool. BJ David, welcome to the show. Thank you Atlas. Thank you very much. Thank you for inviting me. I appreciate it. I'm so excited to have you on. It's been great being with you in the No Limit Society group. Yeah, so much good stuff has come to light from the meeting of quite awakened people and willing to get to these next steps of purification and of igniting awakening around the planet. So it's really exciting what we have going on. Yes, I agree. Totally. BJ's calling is people experiencing absolute truth. Really excited to talk to him about that. Let's talk a bit about your journey too, about how you also got to this union with truth through the veilless veil, the gateless gate, and then we'll talk about naturally the absolute truth more and more. So let's jump in from there. Also, is that your phone that's beeping? Can you silence it? Oh, sorry. I can't hear because but now it's muted. Perfect. So, shoot. What do you want to know about my... Yeah, how was the union? Walk us through the process of uniting with truth through the veilless veil, the gateless gate. Yeah, normally I'm too good at somehow making a good story out of it but let's see what comes up this time. So, a few years ago there was just some big decision I had been during my work career, like I was doing very normal work career in the army and in the commercial industry and stuff like that. But somehow this kind of inner calling started to emerge and I started to listen to Osho's teachings a lot. And then a few years ago me and my wife decided to just leave the whole paradigm of the normal work life and leave to Austria. We had a chance there to go there and start to really investigate the inner self. And yeah it was quite intense after that. We both took part in this kind of year and a half Osho therapist training in Denmark during that time and also we had a marriage crisis. We have been married since 2007 and because this kind of meditation started to make things happen. So we went through a marriage crisis but from there started this really big thirst for absolute truth. Like really I want to go full on. Like there was this one sentence from Osho when he said that meditation has to become your whole life. And that was very powerful for me to understand that it's not some part of life but it's the whole thing. So then after some process we met Mooji and Osho was first like my master and then when I started to really resonate with Mooji's teaching. So he became the number one. And I think he has been the best example for me about absolute truth and somehow this absolute truth has become my password somehow the word that resonates with me the most when I want to really discover the ultimate what can be discovered in this human form in this manifest world. I think in a nutshell it's like that. So after that I've been following Mooji but of course I have been then introduced with Bantini's beautiful teachings which are so precise and so beautifully represent the same calling. So I'm with you talking about it and what can I say? That's what I breathe and live for every single moment of my life. Waking life and I probably in the dreaming life as well or sleeping life. So my whole life is dedicated for this absolutely. I love it. I love the conventional algorithmic matrix life in search for the infinite in search for the nothingness in search for the dying before you die in search for uniting with the absolute that we already are but the noisy mind prevents the insight. So I love the leaving in order to really like you said meditation is to become your whole life as Osho said and it's great that you had that with your wife for 18 months that sort of you said it was a therapist training, right? Cool. Yeah, it's called like therapist training but I think actually it's the inner journey and also like very much integrated with all the physical stuff, psychological stuff integrated into also this tapping into the non-duality and yeah. So I wouldn't say that I'm a therapist after that training. And then would you say that as you were then meeting Muji and passing more time diving deeper into your union, would you say that you had a series of pops how would you describe the process of sort of moving from person consciousness or from the physical to more of the subtle the awareness and even the source of awareness itself? Yeah, I think the most profound somehow realization for me happened a little bit before I met Muji that I was in a land retreat in an ocean center in Miasta and it was just really hardcore Vipassana following your breath and sitting in silence many hours a day and it was really my first time to really really go into any kind of meditation process and stuff like that so and I thought that it would be sort of quite easy to be in Vipassana for one week but actually to really see that and go through all those battles that came in the mind like itchies like little very normal stuff but pain and everything and to really go through it and to really see what happens somehow that I'm not anything that I have thought to be so I think that was sort of like the first real seeing that Osho hasn't been talking bullshit that I can really verify this thing myself and after that I think when I met Muji he sort of brought it very precise this kind of how this the pendulum goes when you are in a person mode and then you are in the Isnes mode person mode and he was very well able to say that somehow to describe and somehow I could resonate with it that I'm not either I'm not the person and I'm not the stable part but I'm the one who is actually seeing it all so there were of course a couple of esoteric experiences walking with a dog and all of a sudden I can realize that everything is just consciousness that the whole way of seeing the reality just change in one second and I can never go back to that anymore so of course those type of moments are always exciting but then to actually start to really see that no experience or revelation is actually nothing I'm all the time the one perceiving it so hard to describe it's like very solid process of being in the being in the big but seeing that the person somehow goes like this over there but it's very beautiful process because it's all the time expanding even though there would be like downfalls and ups and stuff like that but yeah I don't know if you could get something out of that but but I would say that's pretty much the process because Muji has been saying this that it's like cow jumping over the moon that it's possible to go over the whole mind structure like many people would say that spiritual people would say it's like spiritual bypassing somehow but you go to the absolute witness and start from there not like going the person purifying and purifying and purifying then at some point maybe realize the one but actually to jump over there and then seeing yourself going through this purifying process and I have found that to be very fruitful and somehow very effective way. I love this there's so much here so I also did Vipassana several times and that was very fruitful for stilling the noisy mind and really being able to get at these deepest roots of aversion and craving and then to extinguish those over time and become more and more equanimous and become more and more tapped into the very impermanent Anisha nature and then as we sort of follow that quote from earlier that meditation becomes your whole life you take what you learn from that stilling process and you begin bringing it like is said in where you weave your realizations into the society into the social fabric and as you do so then more and more you shift from being reactive to everything to just having more of a pause and being more still and becoming more of the witness or the observer or the awareness itself and so you slowly become more subtle and more and more harmless and we move away from this very dense physical person needing to be right needing to be validated needing to insert my point of view and constantly and so we move away from that and it's really relaxing it's really expansive and then over time like you described with this great quote and you have influences on me as well that as Mugi describes that you can undergo this process of the cow jumping over the moon in the sense of you can in the sense get to the most direct pointing of jumping straight to being the one seeing it all and over time becoming more and more like what Atlas talking to a separate VJ entity this is one intelligence talking to itself it's a little bit of a shift it's actually it's a big shift but it's actually not that in a sense hard to get through this cow jumping over the moon veilless veil in a sense you just shift it from these being like separate entities with their own separate awareness that are having their separate identity and form and all these things and you shift it to there being one intelligence interacting with itself and that awareness and intelligence and source and all of that is shared at play in a divine lila and so that sort of shift is also it's a pop also it pops you out of being I'm going to be in my personal awareness or even if you get to that sort of formless subtle awareness you pop again into the impersonal eternal observation and then you become more and more of the one seeing it all and then if you can really pop in this last one you can get to where you recognize that the sense of I itself even is an intoxicative intention it's the very first attribute of the shunya of the nothingness of the emptiness of the void and it's a it's very intoxicative to to constantly be seeking relentlessly the seeking impulses the truest thing about us but at the same time the idea of continuously nonstop seeking forever perverting that we could pop people as these drill sergeants of awakening more and more rapidly into yeah into and so this would probably be a good place to keep going with you is it seems like you're sudden because sudden gradual with the north and southern schools of Zen have been in dialectic for a long time around which one is it and it's mostly a synthesis that it's very gradual and then there's a sudden pop and then it is gradual again and another sudden pop and then they sort of pick up speed and then you're boom you're at the very nature of what you are and so for you it seems like first of all it seems like the sudden pops were that that's a that's a pretty accurate way of putting it and then another way of describing it like you said it was in a sense you're going over the entire mind structure to where there's no mind and that's yeah so why don't you walk us through sort of that can you give us also a quick timeline so when when did you leave the nine to five in pursuit of absolute truth it was 2015 summer cool when we made that move okay and then you would say that so about five or so years of seeking and to sort of undergo these pops into the absolute truth I mean sort of the process also it's hard to anymore think about it at all as some kind of linear process in a way I think you know what I mean but it's like yeah maybe it's like it sort of felt more like a linear process for like maybe three four years and then just no story makes sense anymore after that and yet also the story or the narrative or the roadmap for awakening the symbolization although in these very last pops these last stages we completely drop symbolization at the same time the symbolization and the story and even though it's nonlinear is really important for this roadmap of awakening to sort of find a meta pattern across people so across the mystic traditions across the modern people that have undergone this process and to sort of create something that makes it so that people recognize that oh I am moving away from a very physical dense attachment to identity and form to something that is becoming this formless subtle awareness and then making that impersonal eternal and then recognizing that even that's an attribute of the ineffable and that also this in itself is the ineffable perfection just perfectly oh yeah very well said and actually I could maybe say that somehow it feels that it becomes less and less interesting you could say this how it develops somehow it feels like it's or the play in the manifest and it somehow there's not so much there's some interest and excitement about that too but not so much like it's not so I'm not following every day that how am I progressing today or something like that it's somehow because somehow it feels like the whole manifest is such amazing mystery all the time that my spiritual development in all of that feels like very small thing also I have a couple points that I want to go through right now let's add this one because I liked it manifest is such an amazing mystery so okay let's talk about as you had the I have two topics that I want to talk about let's start with this one and we'll get to the second one as you had your your very most recent sort of direct pointings and awakenings of the absolute truth with Muji and then encountering Bentino and then diving deeper and how was that process so how did Bentino also assist further in what you had already kind of popped into absolute truth yeah good question I think somehow he was like such a beautiful example because I had been following Muji for some while and somehow that I was thinking that what kind would be some kind of optimal human being that I haven't seen one for a while and then I just collided how do you say it accidentally in Bentino's material and it was so amazing the brilliance the accuracy and then somehow how fast you can like talk about things and involve all these manifest things and even esoteric and the raw material type of things like quickly and accurately and also the psychological structure what the human being has and it was so beautiful it started to feel like when listening to him it's like getting downloads so I think the experience with Bentino started to be that I can just listen to the guy and I get downloads like I don't it's a little bit different from the process with Muji where the process is to really somehow pay the attention to the being more and more and focusing on that but with Bentino somehow it was some kind of purification of the mind and downloading this kind of material from the Akashi record somehow and somehow just enjoy the fruits automatically like plugging into the thing and just listening to the guy and just so amazing so amazing and how about you how did you have you been with Bentino? It's a really cool way to put it that these different tastes and flavors of gurus and the truth coming through them to the souls that are seeking to heal their confusion and know their true nature and so in a sense there's a taste that can be directly pointing at the nature of stillness and silence and experiential wisdom with that and then there's also this sort of let's go through the seven densities and so there are these different sort of ways to add to your lattice work how you interpret the nature and I love that a lot. It's been actually a core aspect to what has been going on for this soul as well is the process of sampling in the buffet as a synthesis from these very core metaphysical truth packages and then putting it together into a very robust lattice work that can be very easily navigated as lenses like a Jedi especially for when those come to the soul asking hey you know what do I do right now and then when you've if you're not stuck parroting a single teaching you know so if you've only read the Sargata you'll only parrot him but if you've also done Muji and if you've also done Bantini and if you've also sat Zokchen or Theravada Buddhism maybe you've also done some entheogens you have a wider buffet in a sense that you can pull from and especially if you've also analyzed science and if you've analyzed form and if you've analyzed business and entrepreneurship and art and creativity as well as science if you really analyze these things they add to your ability for example when you take a look at what is a big bang followed by a evolutionary process and a scent that lands at a civilization becoming self-aware and then reflecting on its true nature in an exploratory lila divine play of that one intelligence and then that is a single song in an eternal symphony and so you can look at the very nature of the cyclic cosmological exploration you can look at it like a blink of an eye just that was it the whole thing went by one more time so not only is it your life that's like 80 years like blink done but it can be the whole big bang and the whole ascensionary exploration and so if you learn how to treat your heart beat like that same heartbeat of that cosmic exploration and then just go beyond the very nature of coming and going beyond the very nature of appearing and disappearing beyond the very nature of these births and deaths the more that you go beyond like that the more that you commune with the ineffable perfection that you already are and that you're appearing as this beautiful vj and atlas soul costume vehicle and it's great but it's an appearance of eternity and if you know that then you don't commit malevolence the utility the practicality is that you know it's all one intelligence so you become more and more in pure service to other people rather than being in service to your egoic conditioning and that maximizes the planetary potential so bantino has been a massive role in my shift into permanent alignment and so has the other spiritual leaders that you've been discussing throughout the program and another good way to hit the tennis ball to you would be as you mentioned during one of our recent and I think this is fascinating you mentioned this during one of our recent family zooms where you basically said that how could it be that this quote sense of I here could be fully transparent to itself to its true nature and so it's a very humble and beautiful way to say that the mystery is so fucking ineffable that how could I ever possibly get through all of the nonsense to be able to truly commune with the taste of it hit the ball back on that good one yeah I think this is like getting to the core which is very good yeah how can this how could this subject be at all transparent I mean one thing maybe I could still add of my spiritual path what I have been also like incorporating into the mixtures is so watching this non dualists like I'm very familiar with Tony Parsons and Jim Newman and those kind of yeah we had Jim Newman on the show Tony's lined up I love them a lot too yeah yeah I've been also in Jim Newman's retreat and yeah nice it's yeah so I think they would probably laugh hearing us talking right now but they'd be like good luck yeah and maybe even the Bantino side would be something like what is it within you that makes you need to know yeah yeah yeah but I feel it's um I can't only feel but but it requires dedication to solve that thing like to have really this calling I'm not talking about my opinion how I feel it has to be that the absolute truth has to be in your heart that it's such a polar star that like Bantino also says in his teaching that you have to really go to your actual experience which is so much out of your intellectual like especially the thought processes and emotional processes and stuff like that so at one point you see that that is all in the screen so you cannot possibly be that but also then to start following your investigation like more subtle more accurate all the time and at some point when it's done you are really in the pure pure I am place where you can you cannot really say anything other than there is just this consciousness or consciousness whatever which is everything and at some point there when there is only the subject pure subjectivity this question arises can this also this pure consciousness subjectivity be observed and somehow then you could say it's the whole subjectivity is transparent which means for example now that all the time speaking and all this it's nothing like it's nothing like in a sense that intellectually I think it's nothing or something but because it's so seen through this whole thing here but also you can't say like it doesn't make sense or you can take any position to it but what is the subject even then it's somehow it also loses its whole relevance and somehow it just ends up into this place where you it doesn't matter anymore what you're talking about or what you're trying to achieve because you can't get any if there is no possibility of getting any further somehow nowhere to get nowhere to get or I mean the whole question has somehow disappeared because it's also it comes from thought that there is actual thing called subjectivity and it's attached to some kind of experience and all that thing already is out in the screen so it's impossible to talk about it but we are doing it what do you have to use it? it's impossible to talk about the ineffable yet we're doing it right now because it's the coolest thing to do in a sense is to talk about what we truly are and is the conversation about the weather equally as awesome as the conversation about infinity I would actually say that I would most rather to speak with you two or three hours about this thing than my spiritual history or something like that even though we wouldn't get anywhere but sorry I interrupted you yeah I've noticed that the sort of trajectory that people to where they're at is also important in creating that said meta-pattern of a navigable road map and so that being kind of part of the core of trying to assist people with symbolization that helps them pierce the valesville gaitless gate and that was beautifully said on your end there's a even in the psychological literature in the sort of self-help and the self-development self-growth, self-actualization literature that there's this focus on becoming quote transparent to yourself and so you undergo the same process in these self actualization literatures that the mystics have been talking about for a thousand years which is to become hyper-vigilantly aware of awareness to the point where you're watching every single frame and you're purifying yourself through these frames away from your egoic conditioning and more and more towards that very nature of God's love light that absolute truth and then this self-actualization and self-realization end up being two sides of the same coin and serving one another very profoundly and deeply ultimately one so becoming transparent to oneself is also all over the scientific and psychological literature so what we're talking about is not just the spiritual idea but it's also deeply scientific and pragmatic and utilitarian is to become transparent to yourself basically the essence of the essence of the question is something like why do you do what you do so become transparent to yourself, your actions, your behaviors your patterns and in doing so you get to this very first step which is called know thyself sort of three-step process of communing with your true nature which is know yourself accept yourself and become the creator and so you have to understand why you do what you do in order for you to know yourself frame by frame because then you understand that well why do I feel angry when my partner does this specific thing what is it that triggers me other people have called this trigger surfing so this is a very sort of long-winded way of saying just become a vigilant observer of your every single frame of your every action and shift repeatedly into permanent alignment with the one intelligence rather than serving your layers of egoic conditioning now you become more and more transparent to your quote self which is really important in the self-realization and self-actualization process but then you get to this so-called point and this is sort of where I would say that I'm at right now which is where you basically hit this wall of the all-inclusive awareness so when you begin recognizing that the VJ soul and the Atlas soul and all these 8 billion units or costumes have the shared all-inclusive great I am one God self-awareness and so you begin holding that more and more and more and then you begin playing with transcending even the purest subject the very pure I am as VJ mentioned you're holding this all-inclusive awareness consciousness pure I am everything this and then you ask who or what is observing that and then then you get to what Buddha called Anata no self and what many of the greats have also been calling nothingness void shunya emptiness you dance dance dance until you get to the event horizon of the black hole and so I don't really know how to describe this further but basically the sense of I in essence is the most intoxicative thing the most illusory thing so you think that there's a sense of I but it's really your own simulation you simulate you often vent the sense of I you simulate God you simulate the all-inclusive awareness itself to be able to be an observer or a witness of your infinite creation this being just one appearance of that and so what happens when you go beyond the all-inclusive observer is the main question and so that's what we're talking about now and that's that that level so you get so we can almost say there's one level of transparency which has become transparent to your actions and your behaviors and aka know yourself accept yourself and so that part is mission critical to become more aware of awareness and aware of your frames and aware of when it's the clouds appearing and disappearing versus the sky and then the second step in a sense is to become aware of the sense of I itself being self-inventing how does how does that sort of resonate this you know becoming transparent to that first part and then becoming transparent to even that that second part to such a degree where you even realize that the sense of I itself how could I possibly know my own mystery it at that highest absolute level where even the sense of I itself is simulated so how could I possibly know what it is if even the sense of I itself is simulated how could I possibly be transparent through that last little taste not an everyday question not an everyday question in the local store actually actually one effective thing what I have seen in the meditation and everything is also that sometimes it's very fascinating to go somehow very deep into the layers and somehow the discoveries and conclusions and thoughts but also at some point you see that because it's so without any distance everything is so perceived that it doesn't matter whether you are thinking about what are you gonna buy in the store and thinking mundane things like that or if you are really deep in what this I am can it be perceived somehow at some point you see that they actually are exactly the same value there is no more value in doing this beautiful work than thinking about carrots and potatoes so somehow it's yeah like said Jim Newman and Tony Parsons probably would just laugh at those kind of things that it's but I guess there is some thing that you can get through those kind of things and it's I am not saying it's totally useless to do that actually it's in my opinion you have to go that deep as you were describing in order for you to realize this thing that I said that there is no distance to anything but you have to somehow make the contrast because before the spiritual process you were only thinking about potatoes and carrots and they were their whole life thinking that there is nothing beyond that but then you realize okay there is some cool stuff here and then you go in and in and in but I feel it's like mostly it's like really to see the contrast and to actually see that and actually it's a little bit disappointment also to really realize that I am not getting anywhere even though how did I go but I just see that everything is and then there is no distance to anything and you can't get any perspective to anything so nothing makes sense anymore whoa so that's a big jump so let's play with that big jump for a bit so if we are visualizing this would it be fair to potentially visualize it like there is a screen of perception there and there is we are going to get to the point where there is no distance between them but okay so there is the screens of perception that are happening and then in a sense they all go to the same screen of perception so the same witness is viewing the screens of perception of the atlas soul and the vj soul and etc so all of these screens of perceptions they merge are you following so far right yeah yeah yeah okay cool okay so the screens of perception themselves merge and so then there in a sense there becomes less and less distance between what initially was like hey that vj costume soul is all the way over in Finland and this one is all the way in California and so my gosh there is so much distance between them but when these screens of perceptions come up to this same great I am observation that one god self then now they are in that indescribably close to each other okay so then you ask well what is witnessing or observing the great I am seeing these 8 billion screens of perception and so then the decision to enjoy carrots or potatoes at the store versus the deepest metaphysical absolute truth that you hang out with 5 minutes later when you get back home in value because everything is in a sense falling into this beyond that it's quite disappointing to understand it really like that especially if you have invested a lot of your intelligence of how am I personally and we would probably go as far as to say that what we're mentioning right now is a it's really valuable but it's valuable for once you've in a sense mastered your awareness of awareness itself like don't jump to this point and this is where I have a strong stance on which I've relaxed this point of view but it's still a strong stance because in a sense I'm really passionate about the global awakening and so in a sense when much of the Neo Advaita pointing is really important and really helpful and really insightful if in a sense you jump people to the place where there's no point to seek already the absolute it's a great way of viewing it there's no distinction between you being angry and you being happy right but then what are you doing is you're stripping people away from Sacha Dhananda yeah I think you're making very valuable point because for me I would say that most the three miracles in life what I would say the only miracles like if some bearded guy walks on the water I don't think that's any kind of miracle but to really find right kind of master is the first miracle actually the first miracle is that this urge to find truth find freedom arises in you and the second one is that you find the right kind of master and the third one is that you actually follow this master to the actual end what he's pointing to because the mind I mean you can when you hear something like that that nothing matters or like you said that this type of teachings that you so easily can make conclusions and you can apply non-duality to your life or something like that but I feel that like in the raw book he says that the first number one first important thing for a human being is to know his mind so I feel that if you have a master that I think you need a master because you get so arrogant with your own processes and you think that you have gone over something but if you have a right kind of master is actually living master then your bullshit gets like shown pretty quickly so paradoxically what I described before I really think it's very healthy to have a good master it's vital so learn to hold both of these lenses at the same time which is that this is already ineffable perfection this is already the absolute I am already absolutely free this in itself is an announcement of freedom okay great and then you hold that simultaneously with this okay well why am I angry why is Sacha Dhananda plastered all over enlightenment but why do I not feel any Sacha Dhananda and so then that's the process of being like okay well now I'm going to have the seeking impulse of finding a master that has mastered both the fact that this is ineffable absolute perfection freedom already and they are simultaneously helping realign people repeatedly with purification away from egoic conditioning towards Sacha Dhananda towards being in pure service to others and so then you're in a sense you're following the master to the end because it's not that the end is just that this is already free done okay back we go to Netflix it's that it's that this is already absolute freedom and there's actually a process of realignment purification and to become a pure steward or shepherd for the ignition of the planetary enlightenment yep yeah good description yeah you too yeah yeah this is a really good placed in a sense maybe we'll play for a little bit here and then we'll wrap but this is really the big I would say one of the big highlights of our conversation is that just perpetually know that you can't be transparent to yourself that's a really good way to put it and VJ was very adamant about highlighting that in our NLS fam and I think that that was extremely insightful and if you really truly follow that thread of not being able to be transparent to yourself and just constantly wondering you know where am I fraudulent where am I full of shit over and over and over again and then following that thread repeatedly because you're humbling yourself through that entire process you're in a sense you're surrendering to the one intelligence expressing itself through VJ saying hey Atlas I think you might be a little bit full of shit here and then basically it's surrendering and saying that you know thank you for this reflection okay so let's investigate am I truly full of shit there and so that process of not being able to ever be fully transparent to yourself and then getting to the point where you recognize even when you are very transparent to yourself that even the sense of I itself that you have to become more and more transparent to how even that is in itself an intoxicative illusion and that you've been perpetually associating yourself with a sense of I your entire life and so that you then have to in a sense disassociate from to be able to commune with this in a sense this last sort of pop this last stage and so you have to find the right master to be able to navigate all of these different lenses or find multiple masters that know how to navigate these different lenses and then pull from them into this navigable lattice work yeah and also I think that this kind of purification process or what you mentioned that to somehow expose bullshit and stuff like that I think also it can become a trap in a way totally that's something that I have like a little bit been considering myself that what my view about this in our what the family is no limit family is that because it's quite simple the mooch is pointing for example that you always go to the I am and actually the purification it's not the main focus but it's always like about exposing the person because the person is interested about purification but the absolute truth is not the one that needs to be purified so when your attention is always directed to the absolute essence of what you are then you don't have to actually worry about the purification effect so much but also I have found very valuable when Bentinio has talked about this emotional guidance system I think it's very beautiful way also to somehow catch yourself but now I'm arguing with God because there's this kind of thing or something like that but also somehow not to go overboard with that because sometimes God happens and it's part of the part of the game the very nature of redirecting attention is that realignment to the one heart to the I am to the absolute repeatedly and while you do that it's a self purification engine mechanism beautifully said so it's like Nisargatta Maharaj said something like I believe my human nature to unfold according to its own tendencies and I remain as I am so he doesn't mind what the human form how it unfolds but he remains as he is something like that yeah I like that a lot as well it's this abiding repeatedly in these pops so the more that you abide as awareness itself formless subtle impersonal eternal the more that you dissolve the person conditioning and then the more that you abide as that which is the source of perception itself the more that you dissolve the person conditioning and even you dissolve perception itself yeah actually it's a magical process because many times when you just focus on that essence of what you are some things that you have thought about that I want to purify this one day they vanish like you don't even have to worry about them at all at one night you don't even remember that you had such issue with your personality or something like that but if you concentrate and focus on some impurity that you have and you want to get rid of it or somehow it somehow also makes it stronger and it becomes like an actual thing when it somehow disregarded it might just fall away from negative tendency for example yeah it says though abiding equals purification yeah well said well said yeah that's a good headline yeah that's a good one let's put that one in there abiding equals purification and that's really what the know yourself and accept yourself is that really is that is the more that you just bathe in this right here you can almost see the timelines where there's one of them that is this this person conditioning timeline as the onion layer the continuous abiding timeline and so the know yourself accept yourself is to become more and more subtly aware of when that other timeline is like nope and you can yeah and then you just abide in this ineffable perfection and it purifies you it is the purification engine itself and you become more and more of the creator as you do this process and you become less and less of the person conditioning and you become a better and better steward slash shepherd for igniting that planetary awakening but also I have to add that in the end even abiding is yeah so of course it's a beautiful dream but you can I've noticed that I'm still right now at the place where it's become really helpful to in a sense like pop back into witnessing or observing or awareness and then pop again into that impersonal eternal all inclusive awareness and then pop again into the ineffable that makes perception I found that entire process to be in itself the core for abiding for me and as I do that right now it is taking me so far away from person conditioning so that's why it's in a sense helpful but then you're right that at some point even that quote it's like sitting on a cushion you transcend sitting on a cushion and now you're going to transcend eventually these your little training wheels of abiding mm-hmm yeah and I think one of Bentonio's favorite quotes that similar to what I earlier said that Osho said meditation has to become your whole life that Bentonio said that seek your ass off or something like that because I mean if there's nothing nothing else makes sense to do when you are alive and to seek that's how I feel that if it's abiding and purifying I think that's the most beneficial work you can do and help others to do that same for you yeah you'll probably find this to be interesting I'll go ahead and post it here so perfectly plays with what we just said he is born in vain who having attained the human birth so difficult to get does not attempt to realize God in this very life amen what a perfect wrap you too yes exactly yeah it's great in the physical it's across this Atlantic Ocean and then on this all inclusive awareness it's like indescribably already next to each other yeah ah ah yeah this was so nice so grateful Vijay thank you thank you for coming on the program thank you Atlas thank you so much for organizing and putting all this together it's beautiful it was so fun we had such a good time I know that I know that there were a lot of good pieces of wisdom for others as well to be able to take and leverage I really loved our let's see I'll bring some back up our meditation has to become your whole life we had the beautiful I am the one seeing it all we had the manifest is such an amazing mystery we had how could we know how could we know the mystery we had the sort of couple step seeking impulse finding a right master following the master to the end redirecting attention to the I am absolutely repeatedly abiding equals purification it's so many good ones in there you are very skillful at collecting those fruits fruits yeah the tennis game has its beautiful fruit that then we share in this lattice work yeah very beautiful and everyone you can find some links in the bio below we'll have some stuff there to VJ what's the best place for people to follow you follow me I don't know I have a YouTube channel but not so much there but VJ they have some Santa Claus non dualist stuff there maybe that's the place to start excellent Santa Claus non duality we'll have that down there and we'll have the no limit society link as well for you guys to check out and thanks everyone for tuning in infinite adoration we'll be very much thank you we would love to hear your thoughts in the comments below on that episode let us know what you think and if the video brought you value give it a like it helps the algorithm subscribe if you haven't already share the interview the conversation with people that you feel like this would resonate with and that is all you beautiful souls costumes units of the one intelligence thank you so much all right thank you VJ you and I will stay in the studio and I'll go ahead and the broadcast