 This has been such a busy week with so many interviews. And thank God I love what I do. This is Debbie Daschinger and I love these conversations. They really do keep me going and they keep me, I would have to say expanding in a really positive way because their ideas I wouldn't consider and points of view I wouldn't have thought of and ways to look at things and just information that is so positive in reinforcing for self-development and self-growth. So Debbie Daschinger, Dare to Dream. Thank you so much for joining me. Again, I'm going to introduce you a little bit later to an exquisite guest by the name of Kamala Murphy and she's a mystic. I could say more about her, but I'll leave it at that. I'd like you to stick around and get to know her. She is gonna talk about heartache and heartbreak and what's on the other side of that. And this show is syndicated on 40 different outlets I am on radio. I am also on podcast and if you are listening to the show but you would like to see what I look like and the guests and the animation, the exchange, go to youtube.com slash Debbie Daschinger and on Google podcast, Apple podcast, iHeartRadio, Pandora, Radio Public, BBS, et cetera, Spreaker Stitcher, definitely subscribe because when you subscribe, when a new show comes out it pops right into your mailbox. Makes it so easy to click on and enjoy at your leisure. I want to thank Dr. Dane here and Access Consciousness for sponsoring this show. They do extraordinary energy work throughout the entire world. So any country you're in, if you'd like to go to accessconsciousness.com and check out where there is a class near you or if you wanna start easy, they've got products or if you wanna become a facilitator, a healing facilitator, Dr. Dane here, h-e-e-r.com and accessconsciousness.com. I'm gonna be talking today about the reality of unbounded power. I just love even the energy of those words, unbounded power. I like to think of myself actually as unbounded. I'm born in the ear of the dog by the way so I would have to say unbounded would be a perfect, very apropos description. Sharing with you, it's really good to meditate and to learn how to put your vision of consciousness-based reality to work to transform your world from the inside out. The vision of connecting ourself to the unbounded power of awareness, this is a practical means of overcoming fear and a sense of disempowerment that results from seeing the world as separate, as a chaotic array of forces beyond our control. When we get there, it is not a good place to be living life from. So when instead we view our outer world actually as a reflection of our inner world, then we can approach our challenges as opportunities, opportunities to expand our understanding, our experience, our awareness. So today I offer you this thought to carry forth which is I create my personal reality and transform outer reality. It is Walter Russell who said, I have no limitations, unlimited power is mine within that which is universal. Question, do you know what opens the heart and ends heartbreak? Well, my guest is Kamala Murphy who is a mystic, a spiritual coach and a transformational healer and her passion is helping women who have been devastated by their plan A which has gone awry and they're ready to awaken to possibilities that these challenges present which is a new relationship with God and spirit that lifts them up and also faith that the unfolding life plan is for their highest good. Kamala, I just love that so much. I feel like that I can't even believe when I was sharing my opening, there are no accidents, right? So that is clearly the message for today. Kamala has earned master's degrees in counseling and theology. She is an ordained minister. She's a Sufi master teacher and a certified spiritual healer. She's also the host of She Moves Mountains podcast and you can find her at her website, kamalamerphy.com and I welcome Kamala to the Dare to Dream show. Man, it is so good to have you. I met you several months ago and it feels like a minute to get you here on the show with me, but here we are. Yes, I'm so glad to be here. Thank you so much, Debbie. Yeah, my pleasure. Yeah. And I love what you said about unbounded. I'm a year of the horse, which is also one of those. It's about being unbounded and having this passion for life and not being all clamped up and tied. So I love it. Not being tethered. Yes, untouched. That's so interesting. And you know, the dog, the horse and the tiger in Chinese animal astrology, if you will, we get along the best. Yes. So we understand each other, this idea of being out in nature somewhere and running free and exploring and expressing yourself physically and otherwise. Right, right. So that was just like, oh, how perfect is that? Yeah, and how perfect for what you do because you literally do exactly what I was talking about and then, and this happens a lot. So it wasn't conscious. Right. It was actually a fully separate thought form that was downloading and then to read your bio and say, oh my God, that's what you teach is whatever's going on, whatever's a challenge, it's actually a reflection of something, right? You're outside as a reflection. So you help people find their way back. It's like you help people find their ruby slippers. Exactly, exactly. Because there's, when we have those heartaches, even disappointments, something minor that goes wrong, there's a way that our physical bodies can clench, and particularly the heart, because the heart is almost like a, what is it, the microcosm of everything that's going around. So a disappointment happens or a heartache happens and we just kind of clench up. It's like, oh, that didn't feel good. Yeah. Sometimes we don't remember to, oh, let it go. So it really is about learning to open the heart and let those things be released and untethered. And will you explain more, because that's quite a comma, comma, comma of all of the education you have and all of the gifts you have. How does that manifest out here? So when people come to work with you, I understand it's women. I understand the plan A is like, maybe it was not the best idea, maybe not the best result, but what does that look like? What kind of work and service do you provide? Well, I typically work with women to discover that what those pains have been and sort of almost learn how to do a scan of one's body and especially of the heart. So it's a way to look and see where are we holding on to these pains in our lives, the things that have gone awry, the big things or the little things. And then just keep opening up to that being more and more aware of what the experience has been and allowing spirit to come in. Well, that's actually obviously spirit is always there, but recognizing so much more. So yeah, I've actually, oh, thank you, bless you because I popped out really fast. So I'm holding the torch, you pro you. Yeah, thank you, thank you. You know, keep recognizing, oh, there's pain there and softening, being able to soften our hearts and energetically say yes to the healing that can come in. And we all have these, you know, wounding from childhood and those oftentimes are the places where we're more likely to be triggered. Yeah. Likely to go, ooh, you know, and something, you know, you'd break a dish and there's like, oh, I'm a bad person. And then it just like boom, and we can be triggered back to old wounds. So recognizing that there's a purpose and the spirit is holding us and wanting us to heal those places that are clenched and hurting. I think when I met you, the thing that I found so unique was when you shared with me that also in your arsenal is being a Sufi master. And I still just find that riveting. So I did a little bit of research because I have, of course, the picture of a turban, either it's a white or, you know, the actual harder turban, the dancing and the robes. And I know it's an Islamic mystic. I know some of what it is, but can you explain for you what being a Sufi mystic or master is? Well, I have to start with a story when I was four years old. I think I've always been a mystic. And the Sufi tradition was one that I'd heard about, you know, I've heard about Rumi and some of his poetry is just like, oh, it just captured something for me, Debbie. And I think I heard about a class about the oceans of love. And I just melted. It was, oh, this is what I want because the traditional faiths that I'd studied, you know, they all had little bits and pieces of what I wanted, but there was something hearing oceans of love and feeling that I'm one with all that is and love and peace and beauty and power at just, I was hooked, so, you know, and for me, one of the, well, what I love, I carry beads with me and they're about the divine. They're a way for me to practice calling on the divine. Is that a mala? It's similar to, but it's a little bit different. There are 99 beads, 99 qualities, and then Allah is the cornerstone, if you will. Yeah, and the practices were just so beautiful and like I said, nothing else had really touched my heart in the same way. So mystical Islamic belief, it's a practice in which Muslims seek to find, and I love this wording, the truth of divine love and knowledge through direct personal experience of God. So the Sufi orders have influenced Islam in the Balkans from the time of the Middle Ages. I mean, this is not something new that just popped up. This is around, and so at the age of four, even this is coming into your world and you're having a resonance, probably a past life, I'm sure, and so how do you use the aspect of being a Sufi? Is there an oracle element to it? How does the mysticism of Sufism come in? You know, for me, it feels more like it's a channeling. It's a way of almost dropping the outer and becoming like the drop of rain or the drop of water dropping into a lake or to the ocean. It's individual and then it becomes as the one. And that's how it feels to me is that I drop the ego for a moment and become a fall away and become part of this all that is. It's kind of energetic. I'm sorry, I just like, I just get yummy about it. Well, you know, you're describing what people experience and I could be wrong, but I know when I have done meditation akin to TM, that is the ultimate experience I have that I do drop away. I'm not conscious except when I come back, I am conscious of the fact that I've just become one with everything. I've gone to this very like almost becoming particles and it is the most divine expression Yes. And that's it. I think it's just the feeling for me is that, you know, this, it doesn't disappear, but it expands. It opens up and you become part of the particles, you know, all of the particles. So that's just being able to connect with you. It's like, then we become first we're sisters and then we come closer and closer and then it's just, there's nothing else. That's beautiful. So let's talk about heartbreak because this is, it's a very interesting niche. I wish I'd known you once upon a time when I was in this position, it would have been really nice to have you. I didn't know you existed. I didn't know anything like this existed. So heartbreak, which happens to everybody. What happens to our heart when it's broken? And what happens in our life when we're experiencing heartache and heartbreak? Yeah. Um, well, in, in my, from my perspective, what happens when we have a heartbreak is that we have an expectation, something, something is likely going to happen or we're supposed, we were supposed to experience something. And all of a sudden it's not happening. And it, it literally can feel like our hearts are being ripped open, broken apart and energetically there's a, um, like a knife going through. Sure. And then there's a way that we're not going to allow more hurt. Close off. So we're closing off to the love and healing that could, could be there that is there, but it's like, no, I'm not going to go there. Yeah. Oh my God. That's so interesting. That's so true. The protection device comes up. So a relationship ends, a spouse cheats, a loved one dies. We have a dream that we're pursuing and my God is it, you know, some people it doesn't come true. You know, maybe there's an age factor, you know, there are certain age factors to certain dreams where it's just like, yeah, maybe this will be a hobby at this point. Right. So there's a variance in experiences of heartbreak. What are the things besides this typical, the walls come up, let me protect myself going forward. What are the other symptoms that occur from heartache, heartbreak? Well, one of the, a lot of it is from my perspective, armoring up. So it's, it's mostly building the walls that I will not let anyone in again. Or the other way that, that I've seen it is just sort of a giving up on life. Yes. A despair, a depression. Absolutely. Yes, yes, yes. A lot of wounding. Yeah, that's interesting. And then often from wounding, there's also new beliefs that get formed. Right. Really limiting beliefs. Well, if that happened, it means this about life, relationships, career. Yes. Yeah. Women, women. Yeah. Yeah. This kind of person, that kind of person. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's something that we really have to, or should be aware of when we have, you know, because heart, heart aches are going to happen. Things are not going to go our way. And it, you know, we typically think of heartache and heartbreak as being a romantic situation, a love relationship, but it can be a lot of different things. Sure. The kids do something that you don't expect. You know, illness. I had a, you know, a boyfriend who wound up tragically ill, you know, and that was, it wasn't about the love, but it was the loss of his health and the things that you just don't expect. I would think too, for empty nesters, there are some people who are so deeply in relationship in a very positive way with their children. And then the children, you know, they're ready to fly and they go off to college. But the, I've seen that many parents are quite bereft when the child leaves. You know, the whole, it's a joke. Oh, you know, the men who are saying, I didn't think I'd cry, but I was amassed. But of course, like that's a primary relationship. And you know, no matter what, there's no turning back. It's never going to be the same. Right. You may be close, but it will never be the same. You'll probably never live under the same roof again. Right. Right. Yeah. Ideally in a way. Ideally. You want them to, to spread their wings. And yet now who am I? And that, that can be, it's not so much a heartbreak, but it is a heart ache. And there is, there is a difference because there's, you know, there really is. Okay. This has been severed. It's no more. And then there's that. I wanted something different. I wanted, I expected something different. And that, just that tendency to want to protect and close in on ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. So why are you, why the subject? What, what is it about healing hearts that created a passion for you Kamala? You know, I, I've had some heartbreaks myself. Um, a marriage that was like it's, some things happened. He came home one night and said, I'm in love with someone else. And it was like, and I had a, a baby. You know, a stay at home mom. And, it was, it was a big shock. Um, but I think I've always had sort of a, a tender heart. And this, you know, the years went by, I was, you know, of course you're able to, to move past it. And he's a great guy. So I'm, you know, it's like lots of love to him still. Um, but I think there was, people kept coming to me, Debbie, and sharing just their, the things that were going on. And I was in classes and people would say, there's just something about you. You have a piece that comes through. And, you know, I'm, first I was thinking, what are they talking about? But it's like, all of a sudden it was like, okay, there's something here that you bring. I consider myself being a channel. So I'm just handling love and healing. You know, what is that stuff, that sore spot? And I can be energetically feel that for people. Yeah. And so I'm not really doing anything. It was just sort of a, let me be used, you know. Oh, that's so beautiful. And it's very true. I felt the same about you when I was in your presence physically, we met at an event. We were outside and I remember feeling that incredible calm from you. And while I'm listening to you, I'm thinking, oh my gosh, what a gift if someone has a broken heart to be around the vibration of being soothed, which is what your energy is. It's very soothing. It's very nesting and calming. Like it is in the waves, right? If there's a riptide going on, it is the one oasis of calm. So this is making a lot of sense. Yeah. Yeah. So the people that you work with and you've described that one of the most often experiences once one has had their heart broken is to go into protection mode. Heart clenches. I'm going to protect. How can we heal that? Can you give them an example or an exercise of how a heart does clench to protect itself and how maybe we can heal the heartache or the heartbreak? Yeah. You know, if you even think of something maybe that's happened in the last couple of days or even thinking about Thanksgiving, which is coming up that, you know, oh, I'm going to have to see Aunt Ruth and Aunt Ruth just kind of irks me every single time. So there's this a sense of I want to protect myself. I want to put up a little shield so that she doesn't get to me or it could be any other disappointment, something that's a challenge. And what I'm able to do is almost bring in a, what's the word? It feels almost like a cotton energy that's soft and soothing and it wraps the heart. And as people are surrounded by that, they can relax and let the armor plates drop down. So are you looking for us? Let me just get clear so everybody else can get clear too. Are you looking for us right now to come up with a personal example so that you can lead us through something that helps everybody? That would be great if there's something that is going on or yeah, that would be awesome. And you know I would ask everybody in your own world to think of a place where your heart clenches. I mean I'll tell you, well as soon as you started with that example, so my mom has Alzheimer's and she's definitely on the decline. It's been incredibly stressful, the whole experience and on a daily basis it's one, for me, my experience I would call it is one drama after another. If it's not this, if it's that. If it's not that, it's this. It's this constant with her and I'm exhausted by it. So there's a lot of clenching around getting her into a facility and managing her knee and her teeth and her money and her, I mean if you even knew, ad infinitum. But it's like honestly a nightmare to, it's not just caring for a parent, it's way beyond that. This is now a special needs person. To be honest, that's where it's gotten with the Alzheimer's. So for me, it's a big clench. I see the phone ring like however many times she calls me, however many times during the day, my brother and uncle text me and we're all involved in it and it's exhausting. So that's my clench. So what I would suggest is that you, physically scan your body and where do you feel that clench? Oftentimes it is going to be in the heart. Oh yeah. And you know, just noticing it and then. And everybody do this too with your own situation at the same time so we all get some yummies here. Yeah. Yeah, just you know, if it's a different place in your body, that's fine but focus primarily on the heart and notice how it feels. It may feel like a vice. It may feel like hands just grabbing. It may feel like iron or steel plates. And what I would, what feels like it's coming through is, so let's have your heart feel as though it's being placed in a soothing bath. Perfect temperature. And breathing. And breathing. And allowing the heart to be soaked. And it's almost as though if you have, I've been in the garden and so my hands are muddy. I want to wash them and just soaking in the tub or the basin, the outer layer starts to free up. We don't want to force anything because that just causes more clenching. We just allow the heart to feel. Yes. And that breath is so wonderful because it just allows more and more of the outer layers to be released. So Debbie, when you did that, the big sigh is perfect. Just allowing yourself to sigh and let one more layer of clenching go. Breathing. And noticing if there aren't some layers that have sort of softened, they may not, they may not all open up and fall away, but at least the first layers can go. Yeah. And then right now it's feeling as though there's a soothing balm coming in. And the places that have been a little tender or raw can be soothed. Yeah. And this is a process. It doesn't happen all at once. And the bigger the clenching and listeners, it's not a quick and easy fix necessarily. This idea of just soothing and soaking in the bath, allowing this cottony embrace to hold you. Yeah. It's beautiful. And it feels like this is for some, for some of us it's going to, the process is going to continue for a while. Yeah. So just allowing. I was thinking actually to put what you just did on a loop because I went from, when you asked, what is it, where was it? It was definitely around my chest and heart. What did it look like? It was as though there was metal, like really armor basically protecting my heart. My heart was not in a grip. My heart was completely fine, but my chest was full of metal basically so anything would bounce off. And then as you were talking, and I don't even know if you were doing energy flow, and I certainly felt the metal go away. I mean, that whole idea of the heart just being bathed and soothed, that was spectacular. And then it did feel not only like layer by layer was going away, but actually feel like the heart went away, but in a good way, right? Nothing was dying. It was like, oh, just. Can you share something about that Debbie? I think what I'm seeing is that your heart, as you know it may have gone away because it's been expanded. Yeah. Yeah, your heart has expanded. So it's. Yes. Yeah. That's the feeling. In fact, it's very much like that meditative state. I was talking about when you expand into the all that is when you sort of get puddled. That's what it felt like. And then as you kept going, of course, it was only more sumptuous and I was thinking, wow, something like that on a loop, even if you get to that really beautiful state and you can keep going and going, I would certainly be open to experiencing that because it was very. It was very neutralizing. And I think, you know, for anybody who's going through something right now in this moment in their life, an ongoing situation, you know, maybe somebody's got a law case, maybe somebody's got, you know, a possibility at work or they may be losing something or they're having a rift with someone they loved. There could be a million things that have us up, you know, in chains right now and to give ourselves that five minutes of bathing in that soothing, calming suggestion. It's such a gift because in that moment all is well. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Well, when we come back, we are going to be finding out more about what we can do more with Kamala Murphy. And I want to let you folks know about an opportunity because the doors are just open for a couple of weeks more. The ultimate visibility formula will be opening up again at debbie.net slash visibility. This is how to be interviewed on radio and podcast shows in 60 days or less. You don't need publicity knowledge. You don't need to know where the podcast shows are. I provide all of that for you. This is about how to be interviewed, where to be interviewed, how to get a hell yes. You get a list of the shows and the contacts. You have your media kit and your pitch letter built for you. You have your speaking points. You know how to avoid freezing or fudging or being nervous during an interview. And instead I coach you how to be very confident and get results instead. So who is this program for? If you're looking for exposure, if you want to find your community and tribe, let me tell you these days, any kind of entrepreneur or business person, PR has to be an arm of your business. It really does. If you want to be seen as an authority in your field, then you can be interviewed within 60 days. So go to debbie.net slash visibility. And I have an amazing special price plus some gifts there for you. Plus, by the way, a free content filled video. My gift to you. So I always attract the most amazing people and our class gets along so well. People become friends. You've got your own accountability private Facebook group where we also interact when we're not live together. And it'll be starting in the new year. So you can join at debbie.net slash visibility. I am coming back today with the heart healer Kamala Murphy and at her name, K-A-M-A-L-A-M-U-R-P-H-E-Y.com. So Kamala, how do you encourage women? Because I know that's your niche. How do you encourage women to let go of their old stories, their old beliefs, their old ideas that have kept them really stuck and unsatisfied? You know, that's a great question because it's, most of the time, they don't recognize at first that the old stories are part of what's keeping them in such pain. Because, you know, it's like, well, I've always done that. This is how it's always worked. And to have them get honest, you know, that's one of the hardest things to do is to look and see and recognize, oh, I'm sort of the key player in all of these issues, right? I'm the one common denominator in each of these parties. Exactly, exactly. So, you know, getting to that place where you recognize, okay, I'm at choice here. I'm the one who's, you know, a creator of this situation and, you know, being able to then, you know, say, how do I really want to be living? You know, there's, because that's such an important piece. We get these ideas of, oh, like, I want all of this romance and I want this. And it's like, well, is that really what you want? And, you know, what has that gotten you, when you've gone for that type of thing in the past, how's it served you? So then, you know, being able to come back and what is it that I really want? Why do I really want that? And what has gotten in the way? What are some of these funky stories and beliefs that I've had that just have wreaked havoc in my life? Have you had success stories with people? Because I think part of protection is creating story, right? This happened, this is why it happened. Therefore, and yeah, it becomes quite solid. So what kind of success have you had with cracking open the shell of some people's stories so that they can have the freedom to explore something different? Yeah. You know, that's something that, where I've really been using that, the practices of, you know, having them soak, because it's all of those beliefs and especially, you know, one gal in particular, her husband passed away and she had a really rocky relationship with him. But she has just gotten, no, I'm, you know, I hate men and of course she didn't. But, you know, she had then also transferred it to the divine. You know? I am, you know, I am the churches that she had belonged to. So she'd gotten them, the husband, the church, God, and just, no, it's kind of like, nope, I'm not going to let that in. I'm not going to change my mind. It really was this idea of like a rock solid. That's a narrow space to live in because that's exactly taking a lot of beautiful things in life and extricating them from what's here. So that's a difficult place to operate in. And it was really affecting all of her other relationships, even with her children and her grandchildren, because there was just like this bitterness at life. So we actually worked with, you know, you don't have to embrace what I'm saying a hundred percent. Let's go, can we do a sliver, you know, and then a little bit more and letting this light and she could not, the word love was not one she wanted to work with. So we worked with peace. And that felt like something that she could say yes to. And it was, it was kind of a slow process because you don't, you know, water rubs, erodes wrong, kind of slowly. This was just open, open, open, open. And it did, it took a little while because she was pretty adamant that, nope, this is, this is the way life is now. I think about flambé. Oh, so flambé. I mean, so this is something you say, if you want to put a little pizzazz in your life, you can have flambé. What is flambé an acronym for? It is. The story was about my mother. When she would get dressed up, she would say, I feel like a million bucks. So last year at Christmas time, I was thinking of my mother and missing her. She's been gone for 20 some years now. And just these memories of her being dressed up in this beautiful blue suit with her bright red hair. I feel like a million bucks. And I was, I do this goofy thing, Debbie, dancing around the house, feeling like a million bucks, feeling like a million bucks. Anyway, so I wanted to capture that because it just felt so good. So I'm writing down feeling like a million bucks and realized it's F-L-A-M-B. And I thought every day, feeling like a million bucks every day. So that was flambé. All right. So we have to use that throughout the interview and people, I task you with using that as an acronym and it's proper meaning some time today. And if you want to take it further into this week, but that you bring some flambé into your life. You know, I love that Kamala is because the truth is we can change anything on a dime. I know this because I've done it so many times. You know, I have bad moods like everybody else, you know, or silly stupid things happen or I'm in traffic or whatever. I'm trying to get to the gym and it doesn't matter. But if I always, I play with things so that I can lighten myself up mindfully. Sometimes I'll pretend, oh, you know, maybe the lady in front of me in the car is having a baby. And that's why they have to go as slow or as fast as they're going. So like, I back off, right? I do things like that because the truth is we never really know what's happening in someone else's world. But whatever we decide it is so. And so it just makes it easier. So I'm saying let's create some flambé in our life. Let's just be fabulous today because we deserve to feel fabulous. And whatever you have going on, if there's a darkness or there's a challenge or there's a heartbreak or a heartache, just for a moment, you don't have to do it for your life. You don't have to be happy for your whole life if you don't want to. But I am just saying what if we just chose in the next five minutes to be flambé. Yeah. Yes. All right. So like a million bucks every day. Mm hmm. And for me, the idea of flambé, you know, you look at cooking shows and there's always, you know, the alcohol is poured and the fire goes and it's just like, it's so exciting and surprising. Even though you know it's going to happen. It's like, ooh. Like magic. Like magic. So your podcast is called She Moves Mountains and you talk about the web of shame and perfectionism and not feeling enough. Mm hmm. You know, pretty powerful subjects. Can you shine a light on shame? I want to talk about shame because it actually has come up in the last. I had two psychotherapists this week that I interviewed on my show, which is really not a typical guest, but the conversation was amazing and definitely people's shame came up. So I just would love to explore that with you since that's also your expertise. Is there a way that even though we might feel shame around something in particular that we can instead get very unexpected positive results? I think so. I think so. One of the things I think it's really important to do is recognize that oftentimes the shame has come from outside that we have been told, you know, aren't you ashamed of yourself? Actually, the other day I was thinking of hearing, aren't you ashamed of yourself and wouldn't it be interesting to say no? You know, there's, I think it was a nice NIN and I don't know the pronunciation, but she said that shame is a lie that someone told you and I add to myself and that you believed. So a lot of our shame has come from childhood things when someone said, you know, oh, that was messy or you did this wrong or you're a bad kid or whatever. And we internalize it. And then when we can realize that maybe that isn't about me at all, but really that this parent or this teacher or this minister didn't know, couldn't handle your light or your effervescence or, you know, that you did little kid things you were exploring and, you know, shame on you. Well, no, because they couldn't handle it. So just that too for me feels like it can be a release. You know, it's like, oh, that's, that was there. So that's not mine. Can I soak in the good stuff and let some of that gunk go? I think when we have those moments of shame to be able to say, you know, this isn't, this is not truth. Unless it is, maybe, maybe you do have some something that, you know. Yeah, because now that you're saying that there can be unresolved shame in the sense, let's say somebody stole something. They went to a store and they stole something. And in retrospect, you know, they got back home unscathed, but still there's all this descending shame like, what am I doing and why am I living from a place of lack and I just took something that doesn't belong even to me without paying for it from, you know, and I could think about addiction is the same or maybe somebody cheated. So that really was an aberrant behavior and then there is the shame, which is a very unresolved state. How can people find their way through to the other side of that? That's a really good question. And I think we do have to keep opening up, you know, because there again, we've clenched something. We need to look at it a little bit. What is, you know, what's the truth about this? You know, is this an aberrant behavior or is this something that I did just, you know, a one-time thing? Is this something that I need healing over? And in fact, even with the Flambe formula is one of the pieces is forgiveness. You know, we have to recognize that sometimes we do things that aren't right, aren't healthy, and can we open ourselves up to forgive ourselves to, I don't like that we're going to be forgiven. You know, that gets a little in the religiosity pieces, but to know that we make mistakes. And also, I'll just add this piece. It's the most difficult piece, but it is the piece which actually I think brings the piece, P-E-A-C-E, and that is to clean it up. You know, I did this. I'm sorry. It'll never happen again. Like just to own our humanity. And it actually, I think, wipes shame clean and cleans up the mess. So we don't have to carry that baggage around. If we did something to somebody, if we took something that wasn't ours, if we carried on with somebody behind somebody's back, I mean, there's a lot of ways it can manifest, but keeping that truth, yeah, it confessed her. And you know, I think things get built on top of it. I think it's very important to heal it. The one thing I do know is like in 12-step programs, they say, look, if you've had an affair on your partner, it may not be, behoove you to go to your partner because you're just going to destroy them further and say, oh, you know, to admit it, unless you don't, unless that's your choice. But still, there's got to be a reckoning. I think of some sort. And now when I say reckoning, I don't mean that you have to pay penance at all. I think suffering, feeling ashamed is suffering enough. And I think it's so important to get out of suffering and to allow something else to flow through us that's much more healing, to honor our humanity, to forgive the unforgivable, and to take some kind of action step forward to handle what's happened in a gracious way. I think that's beautiful because I think it's true, you know, the making amends. And just like, let's clean up. I was wrong. And I am, I am sorry for that. And in making amends, cleaning up your side of the street at least, is so important because that way you can forgive yourself because I've done my best to make things right. Yeah. And like, oh, Pono Pono, I'm sorry please forgive me. Thank you. I love you. It's a beautiful prayer one can say over and over and over again to release that. So folks, I want to tell you there is a special right now only. I'm super excited to share this with you. I'm on the platform. I don't know if you're using it yet. 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