 He wrote an article about MDMA-assisted psychotherapy and John is the veteran who actually went through that. And he's here today. We're going to talk a little bit about more of that. And there's been a little bit of a reinvigoration of the psychedelic science, and it's even today actually, and in the past few days and weeks. But before we get into all that, John, tell us a little bit about your experience, your army and a Marine Corps veteran. Yeah, which it's funny, everyone's always shocked when I say that, and one of the big questions I get all the time is, well, I didn't know you could do that. Can you really do that? I'm like, yeah, I did it. Lots. It's a dual sort of. Yeah, it's not particularly common. But I did four years at duty Marine Corps, got out, nine 11 happened and I wanted to go back in. Yeah. The army was offering to let me be a helicopter pilot, one officer without a college degree. I was starting to get too old to be a pilot, always wanted to be one flu in the Marine Corps as an air crewman. OK. Join the army and then applied for war and officer flight training. And the war has gotten involved, I'm sure. Right. They kind of throw a wrench into your plans. Well, my unit got put on alert and so they're like, that's all good. You'll get a Fort Rucker when you get back deployed to Iraq in October 2005, came back October 2006 and then started having issues right away. Yes, let's talk a bit about this. Now, you were part of the MDMA assistance psychotherapy session. So to even clear that barrier, you had to be a veteran or a first responder and you have to have PTSD. So in your case, how did PTSD manifest and how did it come about? Well, one, I do want to do one small correct. Sure, please. Yeah. That's why you're here. Yeah. The study that you're referring to was 26 people out of 179. OK. So that was the only one that was limited to veterans and first responders, as a matter of fact, most of the people who have gone through the phase two and phase three maps, clinical trials have actually been sexual assault survivors. OK, interesting. And it's also for MDMA. Yes. OK. It works for PTSD. It really doesn't matter what your trauma is. Right. Right. Right. You know, if you have PTSD, you have PTSD. It doesn't matter if it's from combat or military sexual trauma or a car accident or a civilian rape victim, school shootings. We can keep going on traumas for forever. Unfortunately. But no, and the trials have been open to everybody with PTSD. They did group one together this 26 that was specifically looking at veterans in the hopes of getting the evidence that the VA would want. Yeah. So I know these these trials were so successful that they were granted breakthrough status by the FDA. And we're talking about again, MDMA is, you know, it's a compound that has been associated with party drugs in the past, but it really is. Let's say the elephant in the room. All right. MDMA is the active ingredient in ecstasy known as a club drug, going to rage. We all learned it there. Yeah. Yeah. And all of these things. It was not originally made illegal. Right. It was made illegal in on July 1st, 1985, actually against an administrative law judge's ruling that there was therapeutic value and something that actually represented Crenshaw said in its testimony today. What if the research hadn't stopped? Yeah, I think that's a good point because in the the recent years of psychedelic it's a renaissance there. They're picking up where the 60s left off because, you know, there's coming out of a lot of people in the 60s and 70s did hallucinogens all of a sudden it becomes a cultural and a political issue. And then the big hammer of federal law comes down and it kind of stopped everything. Right. And what we're seeing today and what you're a part of what you're advocating for is really this picking up where it's left off decades ago and we're finding compounds MDMA psilocybin, which is the active ingredient in magic mushrooms, mescaline, right? Even LSD, 1963, there was a study saying that's a cure-all. I'm just saying there's a history to using these compounds in the therapeutic clinical. One of the founders of Alcoholics Anonymous said that LSD was the 13th step. That's what had made him quit drinking. That's just his point of view. That's his point of view. Yeah, that's his point of view. But, you know, it's been proven highly effective. An organization I work with called ApolloPact, one of the founders, John Costacopoulos, was a New York newscaster, suffered from alcoholism and went through the NYU psilocybin trial. And now, you know, his alcoholism and the trauma that started it is gone. And see, this is the thing. One of the things I see all the time, and I guarantee you there'll be comments on this thread about, you know, why won't they just let us smoke weed? Here it is, big pharma yet again. And one for the record, MAPS is doing clinical trials. That's the Multidisciplinary Association of Psychedelic Studies, if I get that right. Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies, MAPS.org. And they're doing clinical trials on cannabis for PTSD and veterans, in part from a grant from the state of Michigan of just under $13 million. Wow. Two of the sites are actually within VA hospitals. Yeah. There's a recent article that came on The New York Times a few weeks ago. There's one in the Bronx in New York City. So I was actually talking about cannabis. Okay. So MAPS is doing MDMA and cannabis. Right, right. But one of the big differences between medical cannabis, which is highly effective, and the psychedelic therapies is, I did MDMA three times, it'll be eight years ago, November 22nd of this year. Yes. I want to get into that. Yeah. Your experience. It is not a take-home dose. No one's giving you MDMA going home and say, hey, have a party, good luck. Your, it's MDMA-assisted psychotherapy. What I know about just reading this and interviewing you and doing research on this article is that MDMA, what it does to the brain is it kind of lowers the barrier for information to pass. Things that are very hard to talk about. Trauma, right? Well, it needs to be amygdala, which is, which is the- I knew you were going to get the scientific stuff there. Oh, and I'm not a scientist, but the amygdala is the part of your brain that's your fight or flaunt, fight or flight response. So, you know, for people who don't have PTSD, you know, imagine, like we've all had this, you're walking late at night, walking through a parking garage and the hair on the back of your neck goes up. Well, for people on PTSD, it's like that times a hundred thousand all the time. And so what the MDMA does is you could talk about the trauma without having that physiological response in the body. The other thing- Interesting, okay. The other thing it does is it helps with bonding. I mean, it's called a love drug for a reason. It's important to have that with a therapist. Well, you know- You know, and as a veteran- But we're the mental health professional. And let's be honest, most veterans don't have a good relationship with therapists because we're always scared, you know, hey, if we go talk to the doc, you know, about these problems, I'm going to get kicked out, I'm going to get in trouble, et cetera. And so we don't really trust a therapist. Well, this helps with that. You know, with me, I actually had, when I was a little kid and my parents were getting divorced, I had a therapist breach trust and told my abuser what I had been saying. Rather than reporting it as legally required. So I actually had that on top of the military, reinforcing, you know, don't trust therapists. So I had a big barrier just with any therapist. And that goes away. But it also elevates the prefrontal cortex, which is like your emotional processing. So it really is kind of like custom made for PTSD. Interesting, yeah. So, and you know, I've said it before, it's like doing therapy while being hugged by everyone that loves you in a bathtub full of puppies. Who could be against that, right? Yeah, but you're putting in the work is, it's MDMA assisted. So it's not the main star. It's like a really good co-star. The real game you're going for is the psychotherapy. It just makes it a little easier. Yeah, you've got two specially trained therapists in the room the entire time. And the therapy's the work. All the psychedelic does is put the mind, body and spirit in the place it needs to be for the therapy to work. Because that was the block. My body and my brain were stopping me from being able to process anything. So therapists didn't have a lot that they could do. This allows that to happen. Think of it this way, you know, if you break your leg, you say medic, they take you to the ER. And the first thing you're gonna do is give you a morphine drip, a very powerful drug. Why? Because you're gonna have to reset your leg. And so that medicine allows them to reset that leg. And then you go and you do physical therapy, right? That's just like the integration you do, which is not under the influence of any drugs or anything to process all the thoughts and emotions and everything that came up during the therapy in addition to processing it while you're actually under the influence. So this is showing how PTSD is a mental injury. It is not a chronic lifelong mental illness. And the phase three trial shows that 67% of people no longer clinically qualified as having a diagnosis of PTSD. An additional 21% had major reductions in symptoms. That is like off the charts crazy. I do have to throw this in there so the FDA doesn't get mad at me. These are clinical trials, they're not FDA approved, there are risks. And one of the things I will throw out, you know, again, you'd mentioned like you can't just go do MDMA and be okay, especially if you have severe PTSD because you need help processing all of that. This is done under the care of scientists and doctors. It could be very dangerous. And the other thing that could be very dangerous is a lot of veterans are prescribed SSRIs and taking MDMA while on SSRIs is very dangerous. Yeah, I mean, obviously people should be consulting with their physicians on this. But when I took it, you know, I felt fantastic, you know? And I worked with my doctors to go off my medications and all of that. So it was done in a safe manner in a safe environment. But nobody bats an eye if it was a broken leg. We will spend millions of dollars treating a soldier, a Marine Airman, Sailor, Guardian, whatever. Coast Guard, Coast Guard. Coast Guard, I love my Coasties. They save my soldiers. Campbell, you got Guardian, Space Force Guardian in there before. Yeah, and I love my Coasties. Shout out to the Coasties, helicopter rescue swimmers and crew, rescue my son off a cruise ship once. Wow. That's a whole other story. Yeah, love my Coasties. But, and I forgot where I was going. That's okay. Well, that's okay. I'm here to bring us back. So, I wanna talk about this Netflix documentary. That you're in, so it's this mini series called How to Change Your Mind. It actually premiered tonight or maybe midnight last night. It came out. 3 a.m. Eastern time. You can watch it now. It's specific. And it's based on a book by Michael Pollan. And the book is called How to Change Your Mind. And the thesis of the book is there are new and promising clinical applications for psychedelic drugs. And he kinda does experiential journalism where he kinda does it himself and reports back. But what this mini series is doing is it goes through four psychedelics. And you're the MDMA episode, episode three, I believe is what it is. What was that process like? How did you get involved? And why should people watch it? So one, the process was completely crazy cause it actually filmed like a year and a half, two years ago. Okay. COVID. So, it was, and actually it was filmed at the, hopefully I'll pronounce this right, the Aguila Cancer Center in Rockville, Maryland where there is a psilocybin and MDMA research site. So you're filming with Johns Hopkins University? No. They have a Psychedelic Science Center there. Yeah, it's not affiliated with Johns Hopkins, it is affiliated with a hospital. I just don't know. It's the Aguila Cancer Center. Where they're doing psilocybin in cancer patients and then MDMA, it's an MDMA expanded access. So that's where it was filmed. So the COVID stuff was just, it was insanity. But you sit there and you film for 12 hours and I'm on screen for probably maybe five, 10 minutes. But I was really happy with the whole episode in general. I'm really glad with one of the things I say in there is and it's really true. My story is very similar to millions of other veterans. Where it gets different is I took MDMA three times seven years ago and everything I've been able to do since. And forgive me if I'm overreaching here but you would say that you are cured of PTSD. Is that what you say that? Or has it just managed your, you don't want to talk about it, it's okay. No, no, no. Here's the problem I have. I have what the FDA says I'm allowed to say. Okay, well. But here's what I'm saying. I don't want to get you in trouble. No, here's what I'm saying. I don't want to get me in trouble. I do not have any diagnosis of PTSD and I personally believe that I am 100% healed from PTSD. And I'll say I've done a bunch of really, really insane things have happened since I went through it. I had a gentleman drowned in the lake behind my house. I dove in, pulled him out, did CPR. There was a gentleman shot in Charleston and rendered aid to him as well, did CPR again. A lot of traumatic experience here. I also just got back from two humanitarian relief missions in Ukraine. So I went back to a combat zone. And I'll be perfectly honest. I had less anxiety over there than I did when I was in Iraq. Interesting. Well, I think we're getting to the end of the time here. But I kind of also wanted us to spell out what DAV's position is on this. DAV, we're a resolution-based organization. And we have a resolution that has to deal with finding alternative therapies to different ailments. And I think the fact that the FDA kind of fast-tracked this MDMA trial that says, wow, this is granted breakthrough status, right? Well, they fast-tracked it once the phase two results were known. Because MAPS was founded 36 years ago right after MDMA was made illegal, specifically to take it through the FDA process. So they've been working three and a half decades of the week. Three and a half decades, but we're getting to the finish line. And I'll throw this out there, both DAV and MAPS, DAV.org and MAPS.org are nonprofits. We all need donations, go both websites. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting, yeah. Well, awesome, John. I really appreciate you making the time and coming out here and getting caught in the rain on what you guys have been telling us. But I really appreciate it. Anything else you wanted us to tell us, folks? Yeah, anytime. You can reach out, again, maps.org. If you're interested in the MAPS clinical trial, you can go to mdmaptsd.org to register and see if you qualify. If you don't qualify, honestly, the biggest disqualifier is geographical. But you can also go to clinicaltrials.gov, which lists every clinical trial in the U.S. for literally anything. Just do a search for psychedelics, psilocybin, MDMA, and see if, and if you're interested in the trials, you can apply that way. And again, DAV, we're not advocating specifically for psychedelics. We're just whatever works, you know? Leave no stone unturned. And if some of these compounds have effects, have positive benefits for veterans, it's definitely something we should explore. And it doesn't work for everyone. Like, you know, there's 12% of people that showed no results. And this is the thing, with veteran suicide and PTSD, the way it is, not just amongst a veteran population, but amongst the population in general, you know, we should leave no stone unturned. For some people, going to church or going to the gym or yoga is all they need for their PTSD. For some people, you know what, as Olaf today keeps the doctors away. For others, you know, EMDR or sub-ganglial block, you know, it works. All I'm saying is the entire cornucopia of solutions should be investigated. And if it works, it works. Let us use it. There you go. You've had it. Thanks, everyone.