 All right, we will call the April 11th architecture review. Steve, if you could run through the roll, please. All right. Bob Hybril, Jerry Jones, Joe Clark, Marcus Savaglio, Richard Lindy, all right. And we did receive notice from Dave Aldeig and Pam Lang and that they would not be here today. Great, and we have a quorum, so we will keep moving. If everyone would please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. We pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. And under item three, any board member potential conflicts of interest with today's agenda? Seeing nothing, we will move forward with the minutes and look for approval of the minutes from March 14th. We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? Minutes are approved. Thank you. Brings us to our discussion items. First one, number five on the agenda is the proposed construction of new building additions at Old World Creamery at 1606 Erie Avenue. If that team could come to the podium and give us a brief rundown of what's proposed in the mic so that the viewing audience can hear as well. And we have the documents you submitted. We can pull up on the screen as you run through things. Yeah, if you could put it on the screen, then I can talk my way right through it. So we're putting addition on. We're putting it. It's like three parts. We just give you a real quick history on the whole thing. Initially, we were looking to just do the main, bigger area. And then to find out the power is buried underneath there. And line energy will not take the transformers that are there because they're outdated. They're from the 70s. And they won't hook them back up. So that makes us move the transformers. So then we just made the decision to close the whole thing in. So if you start on the far south end of the building, the little area there, that's going to be the look of the same. The look of the building is going to be the same all the way across on 17th Street. But that area there is going to be initially, the first floor is just going to be storage. Second floor, it's going to have a basement first, second floor. The third floor is going to be our waste treatment plant. So you see the second door way up high. You're going, well, you've put in the garage door way up there. Well, we've got to get our waste treatment equipment up into there. So that's going to be our waste treatment. We want to handle all our wastewater and manage it. So when we give it to you to the city, I should say, there's our BODs, our solids. It's almost fresh, clear water. And that's what we're doing. We want to be self-sustainable. We don't want to give you problems. I don't want to be on your naughty list. I don't want to be what's going on here. So we made the decision we're going to be managing our wastewater there. The next door is where the intake is right now. We're moving that out four foot years ago. Trucks are smaller. We can't close the doors now without unhooking them. So we bumped that out four foot. The next area is right now is just going to be our, there's going to be a room in there with our chemical storage, which we have right now for cleaning. And the chemicals are all safe. They're used in any dairy plant. So it's not a, we're not handling something or we ain't storing something that isn't safe to handle. The next part is what we're taking. When we make butter, we have a byproduct of buttermilk. We're taking the buttermilk and we're concentrating that down to 18, 19, 20% solids. What comes out of that is water and our buttermilk that is concentrated. The water goes into a storage tank, which is turned around and reused for doing all our washing and cleaning at night. So we're reusing it. Our buttermilk we're turning around and we're re-injecting it to into a milk or a product and we're making cheese out of it. From there, we go through another PC equipment in that room and it's going to take all the water out of it again and we're going to have a product that we sell for animal food. So at the end of the day, nothing leaves our building. We start with cream and water and salt and when it's done, we got water is left and it's safe water, it's clean water. So that's what we're doing with the whole building. That would be the, if you want to call that the northern look at it, okay? So it's pretty much enclosing that whole parking lot area. We have, in the last year, we've been inquiring all the homes next to us. We just, we're trying to do our part to clean up that part of the city. It had a lot of problems going on and we had employees that didn't want to walk out at night to their car and things like that. So we think we got that under control for everybody. So, and our plan is, we have already talked with the city and talked with Steve on this, but our plan is phase six, phase seven to continue to go north. So that's just a quick brief on it. You know, we've got a meeting tomorrow night on some other things. We've got some parking across the street that we did. I think we have our landscaping plan in already. So, the bottom part is what the building would look like. It's a standup concrete building. It's made up in Manitowoc. That stone matches up the bottom stone, matches up the best with the yellow, the old style yellow on the initial part of the building. And that's what we're trying to do to make them blend together nice. If you look at the bottom picture there, it's gonna start right there where the yellow is, right? Yep, right there. And that's gonna enclose that whole thing all the way across. So, it's just, if you look at what's there right now and you imagine closing that, it's just a totally different look. It's, we think it's gonna just make it look so much nicer. Appearance and everything. So, that's my short, super. Thank you very much. Do you have anything else? I've got. You got anything else I'll answer or anything? I have to do it. Great. Buildings. Yep. Structure and stuff. Industrial building in the city, but it's clean tidy. I didn't see anything that jumped out at me, but feedback from the board, thoughts or comments? Marcus. I've got one clarifying question if you wouldn't mind. Pardon me. You said you're expanding to the north, but it looks like the house with projected parking lot and it is to the east towards the lake. What I said in years where our plan is to go to the north farther, okay? Parking lot is going over in the east right now. Gotcha. But our three to five year plan would be to continue going north. Thank you very much. Yep. So that, if you wouldn't mind, that would require potentially vacating the street in that area on that north side. Wow. Yep. What is that? St. Clair. St. Clair. St. Clair. So they'd be coming and talking to us about that. And as you've mentioned, buying a little bit of the properties in order to get ready to do some of that. And they've done some demolition and things like that in that area. So that would be a Bayer project down the line that we might be looking at. And so the Sherwin-Williams across St. Clair. No, Sherwin-Williams is actually to the west. Yeah. And that is along Kohler Memorial. And that would be west. So going north is in the neighborhood, the residential neighborhood. And that's where they've, Steve's acquired several properties along there with the anticipation of trying to go that way. Okay, thank you. Yep. Other questions or comments? I make a motion to approve subject to recommendations. Second. We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion is approved. Thank you very much. Brings us to item six on the agenda, the proposed exterior remodel at 804 through 814 North 8th Street. That team can come to the podium and make introductions is before you get started though, just to preface it with the, that I had up here, now I've lost them. Staff recommendations are currently that we hold on this one to receive revised drawings to be more in line with the 8th Street design guidelines. But I guess I'd like to hear your thoughts on the building that you've got presented and why you're taking it this direction. Just knowing that we have some significant reservations. All right, so my name is Jason Aarons, I'm with Distinctive Design Studio and Ryan Schmayer with Fitch Generation Program. So we were in front of the board, I think back in 2019 we presented an update to the facade of the building, utilizing a lot of EFIS materials and it was approved at that point in time. Since that time, just looking at the cost of construction, just trying to make it a little bit more economical. We looked at revising the facade, still trying to create a somewhat of a historic look on at least part of the building. And then we went a little bit more of a modern facade on the corner of Wisconsin and 8th Street with the vertical metal panels on the top and some corrugated metal panel on the first floor. We're still trying to maintain the historic look with the rhythm of the windows that were there previously before they were closed in and part of the building, probably the 60s or 70s they had metal panel on it with a gated or like a caged second floor windows. So obviously that's removed. So we wanted to create somewhat of a historic look. They looked at restoring the facade to what it was previously. A lot of the terracotta elements as you know have been removed. There's some damaged elements on the facade and that would, the cost was just too great of a cost. So we were looking at still trying to maintain somewhat of a historic look with Ephesus on the first floor with storefront windows to still create that transparency that's outlined in the guidelines and give us a stone look. And the second floor of that center portion, the brick would be tuck pointed to fix that storefront windows on the first floor and fixed windows on the second floor in the old openings. And then the building on the south side, there's CMU on the second floor now. So that would be covered up with metal panels and it would create a more modern look. And then the left portion, if you're looking at the top elevation, that left portion, we're looking at putting Ephesus and then that would be painted with a mural and the mural would wrap around to the west side as well on the back of the building. And since my submittal to the board, it's become to my attention that I believe they already have a muralists kind of in line for that. And the thought is to create a mural. It's in the arts and culture district. So the mural would be geared towards theater or music just somehow. And our proposal I don't think is too out of the ordinars or what you see popping up in the district within the last couple of years. There are some buildings at the high point apartments far the south have similar materials to what we're calling out here and the slow food market on Penn Avenue, a couple blocks south also has similar type of materials as well. So I mean, that's my couple of minutes. And like you said, the biggest thing was trying to reduce the cost enough where we can make the space attract some retail tenants, especially in that second floor. It's definitely hard to get someone with that much, we're looking for that more square footage to rent space. So in order to bring the cost to reasonable price for possible tenants, we're hoping to obviously improve the facade that we all would like in that building and then be able to get some quality tenants in there as well. Steve, I may be deferring to you on a lot of the 8th Street design guidelines. Yeah, yeah. But my initial review of it, the main part of the 8th Street facade where you're trying to match the old historic appearance I think is appreciated. And that's where we were giving some leeway on the standards and requirements to try and make that more buildable today, not having to match the materials exactly. And I think on the previous submittal, we had extended some of those, letting you do things we wouldn't normally have done per the guidelines because you were trying to get back to a more historic look or at least a reference to what had been there historically. So that right hand part on 8th Street and the new submittal of it, I don't have a lot of problems with that. It's the corner where if this were somewhere else, I don't know that I have an issue with it and it's nicely done. It's got some nice contemporary elements worked into it nicely. I'm just concerned here it doesn't relate to the rest of the building and it's really not what the guidelines are asking for on 8th Street. Once we're on the corner, we're not as stringent, but it struck me as odd that some of the nice brickwork on the building is the part you're covering up with EFAS and the mural. At least the base portion of that, if my memory serves right. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of murals like that on buildings because they're, it's hard to critique it as architecture, it's art at that point. And so then that would be part of the discussion about when street art is appropriate versus not. But I was, back on the corner element, you talked about attracting tenants and I'm surprised that you're not introducing windows. I would have thought it would be harder to get tenants to that second floor space without the windows on the second floor. So we had windows on the previous submittal. Yeah. The cost, the discussions with the owner, the costs, that was one of the ways to help reduce the costs, to take out some of the windows on the second floor. Other feedback from the board on this submittal? Excuse me, I'm Uncle Steve. Steve. The corner building, I understand where you're at with the corner building. It's just that was not the original historic corner. We tried, the previous time we tried to mimic what was there and the cost got expensive. What we have a tenant, the kids have a tenant, Nicky is over here, that's taking two thirds of the first floor space. We still have the corner space or the far right side, a third of that yet, that we're looking at some type of entertainment venue that we don't necessarily need windows on the second floor. We'll have the windows of the historic area because we're looking to do the whole second floor is you'd be able to come in to that north area, go up the master stairs, have accessibility with an elevator, and then be able to then go up to the second floor. So the need of doing the windows is not there. So, Ken, if you show the, do you have that one plan that showed all the tables? Is this the right one? Am I at, Steve? No, you're on first floor. Go down a little. There you go. So we still would have the windows and part of those second floor space, but we're looking at some type of a pub, maybe Ryan can explain the organization that we're looking at, Ken, who's over here. Sure, I mean, we're considering a lot of different options trying to find people to partner with and whatnot, but either a venue like that, where they could have banquets and things like that, but also possible like large, open style type nightlife, even like, I've been to plenty of places, people my age that love, you know, like turf on the floor, kind of make it feel like it's more like it's summer, things like that, like have bags and have, you know, even gazebos or people can meet up and stuff like that. So just considering a lot of different ideas like that, but if we could have with the extra space, you know, considering some sort of, you know, drinks, nice cocktails and light food, and then be able to have upstairs open on the weekends, because I think most people agree that we're still looking for that kind of higher scale type locations that we can go to get drinks and things like that. And that's definitely what we're looking to try to do with the second floor, so. And Nicky's, again, we have the kids have assigned, at least he hasn't executed yet after we, and that's based on the cost that we have for doing her improvements on first floor, also with doing exterior renovations. So she's taking two thirds of the first floor and about a quarter of the lower level for a space. So we're trying to utilize the whole building, and there'll be a new stairwell that will go on that back on that left center, lower left section there, that will access the second floor and lower level, and then to the far right will be a lobby area for an elevator that will act and go up to the second floor. So we're trying to make it use, it's been a while. We've been struggling with costs and making it economically feasible, and I guess we asked this committee to approve what we're having. We will then come back with a mural, or if we just paint it a certain color, that's acceptable to everybody. But it's just, we thought with the increase of murals downtown and to make something attractive for the historic, kind of our historic venue district with a wild center that we thought that would be a good thing because that's where a major parking lot is in time to attract the people to that side there. So that's, I know I'm not giving you what you want, but it's what makes financial sense for our kids, sorry. And our tenant is happy and she's signed a lease already, and she wants us to get started, right? She even got overeager in her signed person, put a sign on the corner of the building. Steve, can you clarify the two thirds of the first floor that's potentially leased? Which two thirds is that? Yeah, starting from the left-hand side underneath the area, she'd be entering in that area where it says signage, that big signage. So that's her entrance, that's her only entrance that will come in. So she gets the left side that used to be the bike shop or the little resell store that was down there. And then the right side, up to, that was where, yeah, where the sign shop was and stuff like that. So the sign shop is the only place that's vacant. And that had the old stairwell that actually went to the second floor, which is kind of a cool grand stairs. So that's what we're trying to, we've been struggling looking at apartments, looking at offices, all the different scenarios that there would be in the need for windows because you are overlooking the fountain and stuff like that. But for kind of like a evening nightclub type of event, we're limiting the windows and just doing the historic nine windows, I think that we have there, right? I think it's nine of them. One, two, three, eight of them, sorry. But that's coming back to pretty close to what it looked like before. But I just couldn't, I mean, the terracotta stone was just out of this world to bring that all back. I'm a historic preservationist, so I know where you're coming from, so, okay? Sorry, any more questions from anybody? Be back. Marcus. So I'm not familiar with the Eighth Street requirements, but I'm trying to understand on that corner, is there a way to blend more modern and historic things into a building? Perhaps, Steve, if you could summarize the requirements. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I can't, I think it's about maybe 2012, 11 somewhere in there. We did some design guidelines because of situations kind of like this in terms of trying to bring them back. So what we were trying to do was trying to bring back more of the historical looks and trying to get with regards to materials, like in this case, it talks about materials trying to be more historic in nature compared to the contemporary like metals. And Ephis, as a matter of fact, talks about concrete blocks, stucco, Ephis, metal, shall not be used on building facades or walls that are visible from streets. So I mean, it's flat out not trying to meet any of the intent it is going against the guidelines and what we're trying to accomplish. So from that perspective, there's staff certainly is not going to recommend the proposal as it is based on those design guidelines and would be wanting the applicant to resubmit something that is much closer in terms of design that like what we had originally approved in 19 with the cornice, with the windows, with the built courses, kind of matching it down with a lot of the historical elements of downtown. So that's where I'm coming from in terms of our recommendations. The building's been sitting there as they mentioned for a long time in tough shape, understand things with the resources and things like that. But this is a key piece. You got the Wild Center, you got good design, in terms of historical design across the street in the guidelines, it talks about this building at the time it had metal panels over the windows and talking about how to add windows and bring back things historically from a look perspective. So that's where staff was in this particular instance, doesn't have less issue with the section on A Street, have much more issue with the proposal at the southeast corner and then going west. The mural hasn't been discussed. It's been, you know, there are murals downtown and could that be something that's discussed and go to Plan Commission? Sure could, but at this point in time, this the first time we've seen this was this submittal was to have this ethos and mural on it. So those are staff concerns based on those guidelines. So a follow up question then on the corner where it says signage that we're looking at here, if the cost of windows that would be period accurate, historically accurate on that building is too high, is there a way to put fake windows in that would be much cheaper? Can they paint on some windows so that we can make it match but they could do it in an affordable way? Yeah, I mean, you know, there's the guidelines are in there and there's lots of different options. I don't know that we'd necessarily look to have it paint. I don't know if there's infill things of that nature but you know, those are the options that the architect and the designer would have to take a look at and come back with, I don't know that we can say, hey, do this, this or this, but these are the things that you can look at. And if you can show us how you believe you're meeting the intent of those requirements, they could bring it back here for the board's consideration. Thank you. And one final question for our applicant, what would be the cost of doing it the original submittal way and doing it this way? That was a little bit over 1.2 million for that and it's about three quarters a million for this. So we're looking at about $500,000 less. And you run that to your scenario what you can charge tenants and you're already pushing up higher we're not where we are downtown. And that corner building is not there anymore. That was torn down and in place of what you see there now is a precast floor, precast second floor, bar joist and metal deck. The right building is all timber wood framed and original building from that location. So what we tried to do was reproduce that, which is if you look at Wisconsin Main Street they don't like that reproducing buildings. They'd rather restore existing buildings. So we're somewhat restoring it back to what it was which was that gray block on top was covered with a metal panel and actually it continued all the way over and covered the second floor windows the other. It was offset the screen and it looked ugly. But this is and our senior architect probably remembers that. So we're trying to do it and do it economically. So it can, they're not looking to make a lot of money they're trying as we're doing with other buildings that we've done downtown we're trying to do it right. So to make it that it's can cash flow, right sir? Is that what you said, right? He's our development guy. So that's what I don't know. We already have a tenant that's ready to, we wanna start our inside demo to open up the space for her. We wanna get things going. She's excited to relocate over. This is gonna push us back. I'm sorry. But I don't know. I just, I see what's downtown and I don't see that this is a huge change of what we have. So then what you currently have allowed new construction. Final follow up. If I may have the floor, thank you. When was the library built? I don't know when the library built. I don't know. 1960s? That was that when they tried to do I don't, do you know offhand Dick when that was built? I didn't, I don't know if that was when the downtown mall was part of that construction and the fountain. But I would say 60s, 70s type deal. What was the 70s? Yeah. Late 70s. Then I'd like to finish off with a statement. I think this is a fair blending of what they're trying to restore versus what cash flows and what also kind of blends in with the encore across the street, the library and making our downtown a hip happen in place. I'm gonna be in full support of this, but I'm only one vote. Yeah. I mean, you can take a look when you see the pictures of what's there now. And then, you know, with the Wild Center and what we got around the street, there's just, you know, based on the guidelines, there's just no way staff can support what's been submitted. Yeah, this is a tough one because we'd like to see something happen there. And it's obviously an eyesore as it is. That design anywhere else I could certainly get behind. It's just the how far it's deviating from the Eighth Street guidelines. And they're there for a reason. We're supposed to try to adhere to them. That was supposed to be the understanding of the folks who are buying properties on Eighth Street is that then their neighbors will be following these and they're all gonna be comparable. This one where you've inherited a big concrete box makes it tough, but I think the hope would have been to go back to something more similar to that last go-around. Marcus, you were talking about doing more modern things. I think we are accepting their proposal to do things that don't necessarily meet the guideline requirements in order to get something workable there. But I guess it's a question of how far we take that. Do we completely ignore the guidelines and say, sure, this is a funky building. Let's just let it be funky. Or do we look at the rest of that facade and say it's a pretty important section of Eighth Street and we should be pushing for something that's just a little more in keeping with the expectations. Can I ask a quick question? Please. Would the biggest thing be the metal paneling when you talk about it that way? Right, is that really, I mean, because that would be the more modern look that's coming around more and like slow foods and things like that, but it's okay. Yeah, I think, as I'm looking at it, the first thing I would like to see change would be the mural corner. If we could keep the brick base, I'm never a fan of EFAS coming down to contact level with pedestrians and just the wear and tear on that. Something happening above that, I would be open to a lot more options above that brick base. And while I'm not a huge fan of murals, maybe something tied into the arts district there does make sense. There is precedent, it's around the corner, so I'm less concerned with the Eighth Street applications than right on the front facade. The corner, it's a nicely detailed design set of materials and pieces, just not right for me, for here. I think if, again, to take a more modern approach to it, and maybe we could accept something that's more modern and less cost prohibitive for you. But personally, I'd like to see something that's, if you're doing it that way, it would be more of a reflection of the historic rhythms and proportions, rather than being the monolithic treatment. Can you do something that at least breaks it up and respects the traditional vocabulary, even if you're doing it in different materials? So I guess that would be the thought I would have that if we were going to accept something that wasn't entirely in line with those guidelines, that would at least be making a gesture to the rest of the street elevation. Dick. Comment on the design that's submitted. I think the design is remarkable. It's quite good, actually. I don't like the mural, but I don't think many people would. I think the mural could be appropriate, or maybe simply a white wall would work, just as well as a study in triangles. But I think this board has a responsibility not only for design, but also to watch out what's happening in the commerce of our downtown area. And to make things unaffordable is not an easy thing to do. With that in mind, I would like to propose that the design as submitted be approved with the exception of the mural, which I would either want resubmitted or accept simply a white wall. Second. That was a second, Marcus. Yeah. So we have our proposal to accept as submitted with the exception of the mural, which can either be eliminated or what was the other provision there? Just a white wall. Okay. We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Jerry? Joe, can you walk me back through on that side where the mural is, what you were talking about as far as how far up the new material goes? One more slide up. And then I'll make my comments. Want me to go up to that one on this one? Yeah, the photos. Closer to that one. So that top left photograph is that elevation and the bottom left quadrant of that facade is I believe where the brick is that has a bevel worked into it. So it sort of provides some brick detailing up to just above the top of the window heights. And that's something you're trying to keep or? It's nice brickwork. And again, I don't like to see EFAS down at grade level. If they were to do something up above that and just paint that brick or if it's in good shape, leave it as is, that would be my preference. Well, that building addition I think was done in the 60s and how your time is dick on stuff like that. But that was a 60s infill from that original building. The other one has to be early 1900s that we are restoring that building. The best that we can with that it will look like it did to the layman. But then what we had on the north elevation was what you said, the combination of the brick and then the block above it. I just felt to give a smooth slate over the whole thing. We could just cover it, give us some insulation value for that south wall and have a nice smooth surface. If you're looking that we would just cut it to that window height and leave that and either paint the brick below and then do the EFAS above, I would be open to that. And then it's the backside is the brick and that could just, but you have the old cream city brick which we'd be painting all the brick on the backside. So all the back, the west elevation could just be all painted then. But I'm just looking at trying to cover the maestery versus painting that, that's not gonna look good with brick. So that's what, but I guess a band below it, if you think that would be fine to keep that. Then that cuts my insulation, or my EFAS price, which then I can come back with a more attractive, this was just a concept of what we wanted to kind of do for over on that side. So we could get some artists, I don't know if Chad or who had, who's if you enlisted the help from the John Michael Hall Art Center with other murals with your mural program, but the enlist I have the person that did the above and beyond our big thing on that wall, she priced a mural for me. So it can be, I wanted to something with instruments and more of the, I'm very proud of what we did with the restoring the Wild Center and uncovering that. So if that makes sense, I'm trying to hit a happy me. I just don't want to go back. I gotta get going. She's here tonight. She wants my nephew to sign the lease and get us started. I'm sorry. So the motion as it stands is for that portion of the wall to be just painted white or submitted redesign or redesign on that portion of the wall. I just want to be clear really quick. That was just a concept. We definitely are looking to have something more arts and music or cultural area of the town type of mural there that would kind of let people know that that's what that area is and things like that. So that's just absolute concept. So thanks. Yeah, my thought is more in line. I think I'm willing to give up the windows and the rhythm and vocabulary we were talking about earlier on the corner there. But I just don't see this as a place for a mural. That's my opinion. I think it's just too much wall and too visible from where it's located. I would prefer to keep the stonework there at the window height and everything above just paint into the back. Keep that simple and very straightforward and not do much work there. Everything else. I'm not a huge fan of the blended architecture, but I think given what we're trying to do here to further the cause, I would be in favor of that. But I just don't see a mural fitting in there. That's just my view. Thanks, Chair. Bob, any comments from your end? Not to put you on the spot or anything. Yeah. It's just a weird situation as the city isn't supporting it. I don't understand where we stand or how that works. We are the final arbiters. Good taste. Right, you guys have recommendations. Right, it's up to us to listen to that. I think we have to at least acknowledge it and take it into account with our thinking. But we as the board do not have to be held to that, which is why we're here and we vote on it. Yeah, and this was a document that was passed by Planning Commission Architecture Review, City Council in terms of people saying the bid, others in terms of wanting these requirements to bring us back historically and things like that. So that's why these are here. And Joe is right, the board can make those decisions, but staff needs to bring this up to your attention and make sure that I'm saying, hey, this is what we got. This is what the council approved. This is what I think we should do, but the board does have the authority to make those decisions. Yes, this is a follow up to that. We do have these guidelines. Dick raises a great point that if these guidelines are pushing things in a direction that the current economy can't support, that makes it difficult. But at that point, I would ask Steve to be checking internally with the city, at what point would it make sense to rethink some of the guidelines just so that we aren't just ignoring them from here on out and are able to have something that the city is comfortable with. That's what they want the aesthetic of Eighth Street to look like and that we've got good guidance then. Marcus, you had a comment? I was just going to add, as your city council representative here, that is already in my wheelhouse and I've been making eyes at the mayor that this is something that we should take a look at for the future because it does seem like the cost of refinishing or bringing back these historic buildings is getting higher and higher and that's gonna price a lot more people out. For the record, are you supposed to use it? Yeah, and I think in the end, what it comes down to is what do we want downtown to look like? Do we want it to look like Taylor Drive and Business Drive and North Avenue or do we want to bring back the historic aspect of it which increases the value of properties which brings business in there? You can look at it the exact opposite way of how you're looking at it. And from my perspective, I think the guidelines are important for us to have and yes, we can revisit them but I think the vision that's in here is the vision that we all should be striving for. Thanks, Steve. The other thing I would throw in that's hopefully my last comment on this is just cautioning us that when we let some of these projects go through that are exceptions which may be well justified for that particular project, they always seem to come back to bite us because Steve or someone will come in and say, but look what they did here. Why can't we match that? Which is a valid point that if we accept this as submitted, this is going to be something that we have to make clear was specifically for this project and our intent was not to change precedent that we would still want to be sticking to the guidelines unless they get changed. So it just puts another building out there that can be used to fight against having to stick to the guidelines. Would it be prudent to add to our motion at this point then that this particular building is not the original building and was built not in the historic timeframe and it was quite ugly before it was fixed. Whatever terminology you'd like to use. But again, we've got guidelines throughout the whole community. We have the riverfront guidelines, we have the south pier guidelines, we have downtown and they're guidelines. They're not that you have to do everything because things have been changed. And this is still that corner building is not what I justify as a historic building. The one to the center is next to that where it's the little green room for the wild center which used to be my grandmother's, great-grandmother's place, business, Rosenthal Cafe, like to restore that. That's an original building, like to be restored. The other buildings we'd like to restore or mimic what was there with other infills. So I'm the guy that I'm Mr. Main Street. I know we need to get that guy in Sheboygan, the city of Sheboygan, not Sheboygan Falls. It'd be a different answer. Well, you had the chance to be a Main Street community and you decided not to. But you take a look at the building and you can see what was there at the corner. You know, it says the place center. It was the previous building. Yeah, so, yep. So. Right. So yeah. I mean, are there other citing options to metal that is approved by the history guidelines? Just curious and sounds like metal isn't allowed. Yeah, you know, I mean a lot of it is trying to bring back the original kind of material. So I guess in this particular case, you do have a block building from your perspective. Yeah, because previous to that, it was a brick building. Yeah, yeah. So what we had done in that previous time was to recreate that, was use an EFAS with a brick pattern. And that's what the previous was doing that. Right. So it's just coming back and actually realizing what we have there, which is not that corner building. We do have the other that we're using the transit panels, which had the small little four by four glass, like we mimicked at the entry lobby of the ticket office at the Wild Center, but we just can't do that anymore. So we made that actually a signboard for that. But then bringing back storefront, which we're doing that with other historic buildings downtown, the old Keekley's buildings that was brought back, but a lot of that stuff was covered up over the years too. So we're uncovering, but that was a different era too. So we're trying to have that as a corner feature, which faces the library, which is a 70s, 80s, early 80s building. And then what was the old Yonkers Prangies across the street and stuff like that, which is using more modern materials. And then still beyond that is a lot of the storefronts across with the old Baxter building or Woolworth building going way back and stuff like that. Yeah, you have those original buildings to deal with and that's why it has been a struggle to make it work financially. So I think I'm done talking to that. Hearing no further discussion, is everyone clear on the motion that's on the table? Can we restate it just so we are clear? So the current motion is to approve as submitted with the exception of the portion of building shown as mural and that that can either come back painted entirely white or to be resubmitted for that portion of the building. You had mentioned keeping brick. That would be part of the resubmittal if they chose to go that route. Whether it's mural above or not, that would be part of the resubmittal. Could I ask one question? As far as white, does everyone think white is too stark as far as a color? I mean, that's gonna be a lot of white. You know, I mean, that's a stark contrast in terms of colors. So Dick, was your intent to be white or just a uniform color? I personally like white, but if the board would like to make an amendment to that, I would be willing to listen. I don't know if you guys had any thought. We painted the same as we're painting the back, which I think we wanted to blend more of the front brick, which is more of a cream city. So it's a little yellowish tan look to that. That's why I thought it would look so well in the alley because the whole back, the brick was gonna be just washed and painted. So now we're looking at continuing that around and just doing that all the way to where the metal panels would start above the storefront windows. I'm wondering if to simplify the motion, it's just taken down to approve as submitted with the exception of the portion where the mural starts, that part to be resubmitted with the understanding that it's just gonna be some modification of what's happening to color, mural. That's fine. I'd be happy to submit that as we get closer to that. Dick, is that? I'd be willing to accept that as an amendment to the motion I made. And second, we can take that as a friendly amendment. So we have a friendly amendment to the motion. Is everyone clear on what we're voting on? We're a lot of windows here. All right. In that case, if all those in favor could signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? Aye. Sounds like we have a majority and it is approved. Thank you. Good luck to you. Glad to see something happening there very much. And we just need that portion where the mural starts coming back for a resubmiddle just to work out the details on that. Sounds good. Thank you all very much. Thank you. We do have item number seven that needs to be addressed. This is our annual need to shuffle the meeting because of the election and appointment of committee members. But I know Wednesday the 27th is the state AIA conference. So I won't be able to be here. Let me ask everyone a question, Bob. I don't know if you're gonna be gone too. Would you guys prefer it on that next Monday after that? I don't know what that is. Monday is the second. Would that work for people? That works for me. Works for me. Okay, so we'll switch. So just be sure to understand no meeting on the typical Monday and I'll highlight and bold it but we'll probably be on that May. What was that date again? Second. Most likely. All right. Appreciate it. And we need to get kicked out so I would entertain a motion to adjourn. Second. All in favor? Aye. We are adjourned. Thanks everyone. Thank you.