 I am Padma and I am from Sri Lanka. I am doing electronic and telecommunication engineering as my undergraduate degree. Currently I have completed my third year. So I am about to go to fourth year which is my final year. And after that I am planning on continuing higher studies. So maybe going to research. So during last year GSOC I joined for CSIA under this pocket science lab project which was a hardware project which was suitable for me as I am doing electronics. So we started from a place and now we are at a very good level ready to go for production. So before starting you may think that this is another ArdinoMega die project or something similar to Raspberry Pi but this is actually quite different from those. The different from ArdinoMega is that ArdinoMega is just a bulk board. It does not come with any software or anything. You have to type a code yourself and upload it and then you set up your circuit using this jumper device and then only it will work. But with pocket science lab the RIS firmware already uploaded into the board. So all you have to do is install the user application, user interface and then just there are controls you can get the result from them directly. So we were developing some prototypes during last year and we have come up with the final design at the moment. So this was the design you can see in front of us and to reduce production cost we have moved all the components to one side. So the manufacturing will be easier and only one step. So this device you may feel like it is very simple but actually offers you a variety of instruments. So one is a 4 channel oscilloscope. A 4 channel oscilloscope is if you buy an industry grade oscilloscope it will cost you around 600 dollars, US dollars and it is very bulky as well and it is not so, a student may cannot be able to afford such a costly device. So we are trying to replace that and trying to remove that barrier using such simple device. So the 4 channel means in case you do not know it can view 4 different waveforms at the same time and you can have a sampling rate up to 2 million samples per second which is quiet reasonable in universities and schools and have an amplitude range from minus 2 plus to 16 volts. So that can actually replace collage oscilloscopes and then it has a voltmeter it also has 6 channels that means you can measure 6 different voltages at the same time and it has a programmer voltage sources that means if you want a certain voltage level for your circuits if you use a battery you get a fixed value. But in this one you can set the range from minus 5 to plus 5 we have 3 different pin sets from the maximum from 5 volt minimum to minus 5 you can have a wide range of voltages with very good accuracy as it is 12 bits and those are the pins relative to it and it also has a current source in many analytical purposes you will need a current source and in normal instruments it is very expensive to use that and also it has logic analysis it also has 4 channels that is for digital circuit analysis basically it supports up to 4 megahertz frequency ranges and it has analog wave generator it can generate a sine wave as well as a triangular waveform frequency is ranging from 10 hertz to 5 kilohertz. So this is quite affordable range for normal circuit analysis and debugging and it also has PWM generator that means digital wave form generator. So in order you know you have to implement the code yourself here we have those pins predefined you for yourself all you have to do is just plug the pin and adjust the control in the application in here and another quite amazing thing is it has capacitance measurement in normal multimeters the capacitance measurement feature is not there it is in quite expensive multimeters. So we have that feature included in our device ranging from picofarad and also it can measure resistance from milli ohm to mega ohm and the another amazing thing is you can connect so many sensors to this device. Sensors which are working on you may not see in I2C an SPI URT protocol like accelerometers, gyroscope, humidity sensors, gas sensors there are so many sensors working on I2C principle because it is I2C you can connect so many pins so many sensors at the same time and read their row value then you can capture the data set and then you can maybe plot to so to analyze so whatever you can do that. It also has a frequency counter it is more similar to logic analyzer and now comes to the open source project this project is hosted on G-Tub in several repositories the first two PSLab Python and PSLab desktop are the source code related to the desktop application and the Android repositories we have Android application as well which you can connect the device to your mobile phone which is Android and PSLab remote is a web server repository for the device and the PSLab firmware report contains the firmware which is written in C++ and the hardware contains all the schematics which is designed in key CAD and all the build off materials if you want to build on yourself you can have all the stuff open there and it was initially it was a very basic device which comes with a two channel oscilloscope and so on and so over the past few years we developed it to this level and the first application was a desktop application and during last year GSOC we developed the Android application and so now we are planning on having the usability to more people by developing coming up with some solutions so this is how the Android application oscilloscope looks like it has all the features a normal classical oscilloscope as and this one is the desktop application so now let me show you some of the stuff you can do with this one okay now this is the so this is the desktop application and it has sold it has access to all the instruments on this step oscilloscope logic analyzer these are for those sensor readings and here we have the sine wave triangle wave generator settings PWM settings so programmable voltage settings here we can measure capacitance and resistance and voltmeter 1 6 channels and the frequency counting also in here we have if we have some frequency settings for wave form generator and PWM so now let me generate a sine wave with a frequency of 500 hertz and then I will show you that from from one channel of our oscilloscope I am opening it and there are four channels here so I have connected one to the third channel some already generating it so we can adjust the time base depending on the frequency of wave waveform you want to have the maximum display on it so you can adjust it here and then you can adjust the resolute amplitude and here we have a knob you can see with that one you can change the amplitude of the generated wave form see we are planning on putting software on up for that one instead of the hardware one and you can do Fourier analysis as well if I go into logic analyzer about the four channels let me first generate a digital pulse that means square wave with only two values here we have here we have on the bottom we have a square wave generating pins just as a skew in the bottom I am choosing two of them they can be arbitrary I am choosing a skew 1 and a skew 2 so that will generate two square pulses and here I am just setting what is the duty cycle duty cycle means in a period of in a in the in one cycle how much how long the pulse will have the logic high level that let me show you that in the wave form let for clearance I will make it 0.6 and then it may open the logic analyzer whenever I have open the logic analyzer in this case I am using two channels the reason is I want to see a phenomenon digital pulses that is they have two different features like falling edge and rising edge these are quite commonly available in processor designing for clocks so let me show you what a rising edge is using this one so we are capturing the data and putting it so there are so many data points so we have to zoom in see here the 60 the 0.6 duty cycle means if we take this length as 1 this length is 0.6 this length is 0.4 that means 60% of the period is 5 volt and you can see the rising edge means transition from logic low to logic high logic low means the there is no voltage logic high means there is the maximum voltage so the rising edge is the transition time so this is the time where the rising edges occurs so you can do many more things like this with this device and to show you how to measure resistance here I have a resistor with 100k it has some tolerance so they and here we have these two pins SCN sensor pin so we are connecting the two edges of the resistor through that pin and when I try to read it it will show you the value correct value because the resistor may say it is 100k but there are tolerance like 5% tolerance in resistors so the actual value can be different if you measure this from an industry grade multimeter it will be the same value and if I try another resistor to verify that term here I have a 560 ohm resistor if I measure it there are also tolerance there was a loose connection that is a you know surround that term now apart from all these instruments we have a special section in our application that is experiments in a school or a university you have to give the student a practical experience they have in the curriculum they have different different experiment teacher will give you a lab sheet and the schematics to make with all the components and the student have to make the circuit and get different readings and draw some plots so we have a similar approach in our application so let me show you how a diode bill looks like if we have the instruction to connect how it is so the schematic is not shown here here you can change the input and out input parameters here it will have different curves so different likewise we have a whole set of experiments in different different categories electronic experiments are basically for high school and university level students because they are as you can see they are a bit complicated op-amps ramp generators so for school level students we have simple application like measuring voltage and how to make a lemon cell and what is ohm's low and so on so that's all about our application in a nutshell so and also we can design experiments rather than just having the experiments designed by that by us you can design them yourself by selecting which are the components you need and what are the readings you want to get in what range and then you can have a simple view and with this one you can just gather some data by connecting meaningful circuit and then you can plot them now it's just open so it's all this graph may be not meaningful but if you have a design on your mind you can have the design in this application okay so what do you guys think so it struck me that it would make a very good test bench platform for a lot of projects yes it's not just science and actually when I look at this I'm thinking more like if I'm building a hardware and I want to automate the testing of the electronic this would be very useful and actually measure point points and free expected value range and connect that and have signals as they input to that device and measure the outputs yeah that's that so to me more like I don't I know understand that scientific aspect in the name but to me this is this sounds more like a great tool to test other electronic and apart from having the this GUI here we have this application was written in python so we have a library yeah import it and then you can have here here we have some sample functions here the capture one is a function called to get the voltage reading from channel one so if you are if you want to let's say you are having some application where you want to just automate this thing so you can have a python script running and getting data and you can process it so what's the communication between the platform right now it's you what it's what you are it's a it's a serial serial communication and I think you can discuss like bluetooth at some point bluetooth and wi-fi bluetooth or wi-fi as the as a thing yeah to make it wireless wireless okay so actually the current hardware can be extended with an ESP yeah yes so at the bottom side of the hardware there is an open socket for you can solder an ESP yeah and make it wireless yes and at the bottom there is a when you can program it yourself down there ESP you can have a web server uploaded to the firmware and then have the UR communication same as the USB cable so that way you'll you'll only have to power up the device device and the ESP and then you don't need the USB connection with computer anymore you can have it as an access point connect the computer to that turn then have the application running easily what else can you extend here we have a NRF module as well it's kind of similar to how an ESP works and if you want to tinker with the firmware here we have the programmer pin set it's an ICSP programmer yep so can you talk a bit about like using external sensors yes so we have the i2c connector in the top with that as i2c is made to connect so many devices using only four wires so we can connect plenty of devices like accelerometers gas sensors mm barometric pressure sensors light sensors there are so many sensors available in the market they're all compatible so you can connect any amount of sensors and then get their row values then you can export them as csv format with that you can either use matlab or whatever the tool you prefer and you can process that data what are the functions of the functions of what are the functions of your computer what can you measure what meter what meter a voltmeter a voltmeter a voltmeter can measure six different voltages at the same time they have also resistance and capacitance and also current it can measure voltages up to minus 16 to plus 16 that's the no not ac it can be dco ac as long as the range is between minus 16 to plus 16 a bowl so good we cannot measure bowl so good ac is not good how you measure ac bowl so good we cannot measure bowl so good we cannot measure bowl so good no no i'm saying they say i'm only have a five volt ac how do you measure ac here we have a capacitor connected across this ac one pin it's a it's the same pin as channel one we have a 10 micro farad capacitor connected across ch1 and ac1 with that one we can input a ac wave so let me show you the average value yeah rms now for your logic analyzer your four mega hertz is per channel yeah here for your scope do you have filtering inside input and output uh filtering or just the waveform coming out yeah directly and it will amplify according to the setting we choose it see it's between 16 or plus 16 or minus 16 or plus five to minus five for the amplitude resolution range it will show the gain what kind of power does it require can i make it stand alone and leave it in the garden time yes it's a how would i keep the data and then collect it at a later time for that you will have to use an esp yes without an esp you need a wired connection with esp you may need you may can have it as an access point connect some mobile phone or laptop to that and have the application fetch it every maybe some interval and you can get the data is there possibility we can connect to an sd card for instance i know everything can make that happen collect data i mean sometimes we want to leave it out in the form or something like that yeah that's a good suggestion like we have to decide what is most useful for people so it's very good that you give this feedback that would be useful for you but it's not just the sd card you're actually able to run a server if you want to collect the data locally right now we just plug in a usb either to the laptop or to the mobile phone because we say already the mobile phone has a screen the mobile phone already has all this processing power and so we we are collecting the data so theoretically you could also just take a cheap mobile phone connect it to the box well mobile phones now old ones for 46 so what's the minimum requirement let's say when connect the i think marsh mellow sir oba will support otg because to connect to a mobile phone we need a special cable otg cable so other samsung devices doesn't support otg that's the problem but it seems to me like that what you suggested the path of like having it more or less and a computer is as a web interface is much better right because like yes full screen like you have a lot more possibilities to do that than with their mobile phone like i feel the interface on the mobile phone is very limiting in terms of it's more built out of it right like i i because if you look at the higher range oscilloscope what they have is like a bigger screen and more but then so then you're placed up by a computer it's better yes to see this whole path of like the embedded phones depends the use case so we have we're supporting both use cases yeah educational and like let's say scientific and startup yeah hardware creators so actually like so for educational area and we were looking like at android as like in many emerging countries on the android phone yeah and of course like in like in singapore or windows so and for the desktop you also need to install a server you need to run a server on the desktop so it's not just a desktop app that you quickly install at the moment there are options to go that way but also we have to look at our resources so it's not just do we do this or that it's just the question what do we do first right so so android app seems to be like supporting already a lot of devices and the idea would then be that we now the next few months connect like we add connections like let's say you could collect data and for example send it to a spreadsheet collected csp but also send live like let's say to google docs a spreadsheet that you can share with different people it's not entirely open source but like in future we will have of course collaboration office and so right it's just the question like what what do we do first and yeah but i think i i find really interesting so we've just been to it west with brilliant tan and he also said well this is very exciting with the sensors because i like the idea of the star trek probe yeah like we are arriving at a new planet and okay we have a choice of about 1000 sensors but some sensors we don't need for this planet let's let's put like 200 sensors inside and send the probe to the planet yeah water atmosphere what gas it is and so on so actually with the breadboard we can already like attach ten tens or dozens of devices right now right so there is like so you can like if you don't use the breadboard you can attach one in the next version we will extend this we have four more pins actually because we have space we realize we have space and but like already now if you use a breadboard you can attach a lot of devices so it's very good for prototyping or for like some signs so you could like put them in a box put it somewhere and show it to a customer and say this is our prototype whereas with adrino recipe they have like to build everything up with the firmware you know fiddle around and here you get the data straight away and you could just like say it's my prototype i'm collecting data but you have an icc support right yeah so you could use a bus with a single just two three wires you don't need you don't need additional pins you can just base and change the sense you mean with these four pins yeah you could do icc yes so what the thing is so breadboards can be shaky so we can have some additional connection on the body itself because we have just some space here so we can spare that to the socket like this one i missed your explanation is there another expansion there marked nrf24 yeah for wireless wireless yeah so there's two wireless there's two wireless solutions yeah you can and the firmware is already there in the chip nice the only thing needed is the hardware because oh so it's just the standalone i mean unwired approach yeah only we need to power up the device it has a supply regulator i could connect a normal battery yeah yeah this chip is using 3.3 it's all regulated here what's the maximum the 12 volt battery yeah so one thing that we discussed in the last two weeks for example was having like a charger battery and like a solar panel yeah i mean the question is what do we include with the device right you don't need that but you could use that and then just pull it out somewhere yeah which can actually connect the small display so so somehow you don't need like a computer to actually see what's the battery going on you can actually like operate as a less than two devices i mean about a meter or a meter yeah so so i don't know so i don't know their question we could like go different ways now for example like if you're interested like what's our roadmap and how are we planning to produce it and so we could talk about this or we could also like sit down here people are interested on the table because i saw somewhere like standing up when Fatma was doing something so we could like more go into detail and do like a few experiments so generally like Roland Turner and can't be here tonight but he will he's planning to make more workshops over the next few months also until make a fear so we haven't really done workshops yet it's like for us is right like still figuring it out and so we're getting tonight the OTG cable or adapter we have like one or two there only now so you can already now connect it to the to the laptop right but the beauty of android coming back there is like you download the app from the app store and you're ready to go whereas with the laptop it's a procedure to install it right it's not just like click and go so yeah these options or do you have anything else Fatma I think that's about it yeah so what we're doing like this is also Google some of code project over the next few months so if you have any feature requests we're happy to take them in and so we are focusing on the android app but also on a progressive web app which is like Sebastian Dekas gave some ideas here because we weren't sure how's the data processed yeah you wanted like you don't want to send it to a server and then it comes back and there's a delay or something like that so so he gave us some ideas how to progress here so you can process everything and so there are some questions for example with iOS and it's not supporting like it's not very open we learned yesterday more details so so right now it's it's right now very open it's not supporting the usb support or bluetooth and it's very private to them oh because you need to get the device for supply yeah yeah so so we can only like plug in what they allow some advice is there is that you are because so you guys push everything to serial right you have a message format specified message format is that pretty well documented in terms of like I think all our documentation is pretty good but of course you will find things that are okay but like usually we we document a lot there are also a lot of posts on our blog and every repository has like a read me and all the details okay yeah but where would I find the serial protocol documentation let's say I want to connect my Mac to it and start sending messages and risk messages and collecting the data to influx tv and do something like that yeah is that in firmware that's that's seen firmware truly it's not that much documented how the hardware communication I see it on the website there's a python library is that a python library yeah I could just get that yeah essentially it's like a character base right in the kitchen what for the I triple format instrument communication the standard format that putting point and so on then what was the name of that format I I do see I do see that's a sensor I know I don't know a serial documentation format the serious measurement equipment see the local standard yeah documentation format no when you send to your UART to your yes left yeah what is what is the protocol usually there is a standard for instrumentation in the I triple format um we are we have a set of our own commands it's like we have first categorized yeah categorized what are the documentation we use for us yes that's a good I mean I so there's science lab the p y right science lab the p y is the thing important python from the desktop and yeah it has uh it has the python definition for the communication in there so for some of the libraries actually they just derivatives from xpeg eyes so we didn't start that started from scratch right it's a very good question because of course we want to stick to standards right so I give you some some examples yeah yeah but I I don't like there are some Python libraries so I would say probably they stick to standards are you listening yeah can you help us yeah check that out you always need new people to get in yeah so right now so the production right now is around like 110 a bit about about between 110 120 um $6 but like it will like we produced a 50 in this batch so not so many we'll go down and yeah so we are still like checking because it's hardware we are a bit afraid to produce a lot so but like so so target would be something around 30 dollars maybe if we can get their production cost and so that would be cool but like if we add like SD card or something we can't keep it so so so our thing is like we always want to add something also but we want to keep the cost so it's like a constant fight with night what we do it's always a possibility to show a tutorial how to add exactly to connect to an SD card if like the additional like yeah probably you can have a footprint for a generic uh folder SD folder so like people just call to the other side yeah yeah exactly so yeah it's good to get the feedback and yeah that's that's it so this pocket time so the we gave like two boxes around so one box was also with the like we we had what's it an English amplifier gain to control the gain yeah but actually we just thought like we could do that digitally so we we take it out one one less button yeah and um we'll see other one there oh okay yeah so that one we just made in the Kiwi's office like three days ago so it's slightly smaller and by the way they are compatible with the Arduino so so if you see that here we find you will see like the below the sticker there are some holes from Arduino but like our box will our own box will not be entirely compatible because we will not if it's Arduino they will have more space here they will have it longer we don't have that long space and also we want to keep only the inside screws we don't want to have a bigger box so we want to make it as small as possible but the pocket is small as possible so that's what we do but anyways you could you could take an Arduino box yeah if you if you want and you can produce the whole thing yourself so the whole schematics are online with the key and yeah so you can just download it and try it out yeah and so we have different versions yes because like they're really different like we have version one two three four because they're really different like previous versions didn't have a clue about production so we thought let's make it really small that we put all the components on two sides actually it increased the cost a lot so we lowered the cost by a quarter by putting everything on one side these are the previous version this one is the first one it has uh it has all the components on both sides this one with side modifications can we use the Raspberry Pi with it? what? Raspberry Pi with it yeah well yeah you can use it in events of what you want to do you can use the Raspberry Pi just how we use the computer now yeah so yeah so so this is our staff version we really want to make this successful so we're thinking about how to do the kick set how to do a kick set a campaign and so on yeah you would buy it? I would for the last two years I've been sporadically giving lessons to secondary school children on the microbin so it's a different space altogether the microbin for introduction but they are already connecting to a variety of sensors and actuators this is targeted for a different space of people right so um it has to have a little more than the microbin and the microbin is already got things that I asked for earlier like wireless connectivity easy programming and stuff like that so I think there might be some room for improvement before you put it out kick start yeah so one thing that we said is like you save a lot of time so you can connect your sensors for example very quickly yeah and get data so with micro that you have to program it first so but like and program it but it can be made into a standalone project you leave it out in the garden having microbin talk to another in a mesh form or hopping form right they can get data of their garden water plants and stuff information about it right so I was hoping that this could do something similar or even more more than what I could do with microbin so that's why I asked maybe there are some things that we can improve and microbin is a pretty relevant piece of device given to secondary school students today so I think I would like this to be more successful than the premium it's a premium option yes yeah what what do others want if you have the clearly documented protocol yes I can even use the microbin to take your time control it guys yeah I think the microbin could see your communication yeah I mean I think I think if we can write like because it's already a Python library right so just just going that way I think it's more software right it's on the software side like developing the features so that it integrates with the existing hardware we've heard the rest pie like a pc like other platforms it's all about like people want it on their platform but you're not going to be building all of that we need to get people to maintain these this support for their argument so I think it's that direction that's pretty good but I think you know because you think you can build it for a lot of different people but I think you already have a good sense of what kind of application you want to do right which is measurement and and kind of tasks and kind of these things so what what scenarios can you cover like thinking more about that I think this is hot so this is our first thing and our next thing is this big sign so one sensor that we want to get connect is our friend's new new box yeah I've got one so here are different pieces this is also hardware it's like a bit um so it's like a to to measure brain waves so we are looking if we instead of having this thing that they made kind of a little acotic way if we can support for example with this lab it sounds like as well so because the the great thing what they did is they really um have medical great accuracy accuracy so there are like some devices also in Singapore and elsewhere they're relatively cheap um but like they don't get such a quality of brain waves so here with a few sensors we get very high accuracy there's this amazing Japanese guy who's just an into it for 30 years see the guy will always wear that year no it's not him it's another guy who's also very much into aliens and yeah but like yeah it's cool so yeah this this one one where we could go for example so we want basically it's not just about building one device we want a team we want people who work together and we want to push this idea of open source hardware out there as well so um like if other people could use it we also win and we'll contribute back to the project they would say isn't that so that's that's our idea so basically if you have this idea it's also online yeah so um yeah yeah good so now it is what's the time 8 10 yeah so I don't know if you if you want we could like uh have partner maybe you could show us a few more things how you actually connect that and if people want to know sit actually around the table also we could do that yeah oh if you have another suggestion yes oh yeah so for the the android and the desktop versions is the functionality the same yes or is there a function only a desktop no both the functionalities are in both applications but uh for now the maybe the approach will be a bit different maybe we don't have all of it in the android app yet yeah but over the summer yeah we have completed because we we have now with the sum of code we have five people who work on it so okay students look like you know but still they have a clear plan so everything will be supported in the next two months and you can already like the current app is already on the app store so um it's still in testing but you can find it already so how do you see the collaboration with like your because in china's we have you have a couple manufacturer of open source hardware uh df robot c studio things like that and I think you guys have an approach them yeah right no no we produce it in uh with six million miles of studio okay already yeah so they are they are relatively expensive but for me so um yeah we're checking out others as well for larger quantities so the the idea would be to have the Kickstarter at the end of the summer so to say in the end like ready for christmas you're open and I don't know like we haven't figured out how much like what makes sense because usually rather conservative so if anyone has feedback about this project here what do you think do you have feedback yeah i'm just thinking i'm just thinking how because i know a couple electronic uh like in manufacturers in in in shanghai right they're pretty good for like shan shan shan is very good for large quantities but shanghai actually for smaller quantities uh batches it's good yeah i have a contact for the product i said the good guy so i think he's quite low cost but he doesn't do testing but he assembles a lot of them yeah so um yes i think it would be pretty pretty good to have like a automated testing procedure shield type of thing because if you're moving to production that should be one of your side projects actually having having some sort of of test harness you can put on the board because so once it goes production comes out especially in china like you get a lot of defect so you want to make sure you have a systematic way to solve the features um and that like if you put one of this i think put one of the student on that would be a good investment just test harness if you have someone that does hardware and software right and at the same time it's i mean it shows off the feature of the the hardware because you have like it's a oscilloscope and a signal generator and i like i saw it a little bit at the beginning the presentation right you generate the sine wave and you measure the sine wave on the same device so that's kind of testing you can make you should make systematic and then have software to check that you know the whole hardware is working correctly because once you move to production with 10 000 units how are you going to test it you can just ship it it's super important of that of a project like that thanks for signing up as a mentor yeah yes definitely so we have to test because we have software testing but i think hardware testing we don't have it yet right just everything yeah so i did travels and yeah makes a big difference yes so any any feature requested to that let's verify what let's verify let's verify so connect it like every tutorial something everything like just to connect we're used together we're satisfied sometimes yeah but that shouldn't be too hard i think it's the documentation problem right it's just someone sitting down and plugging because the hardware is already all there so it's not that it would be very challenging but again i think it's a it's probably more documentation right like showing off all the facilities having some sort manual what you're saying is that you're targeting people who already have a background in titan you know no no no why no documentation is documentation right so it's also for the feature of this thing and like the like i saw a little bit like they have some framework to create experiments but i think if you're going to do this with kids like they need like the whole step like walk through you know it's it because you're actually the the target here is teachers right like you you said showing it to kids you get this piece of hardware teachers are always like okay what do i do now right like what what kind of things can i do with this thing so you need to give them the experiment you need to like you have the potato let's measure voltage on the potato when the lemon and like some other things right then things like that that's what they want you know there's a good opportunity here yeah this year is the first year in Singapore where all levels have a computing subject and it's done in titan okay yeah so maybe you can have a tie up with schools or yeah so they start off at secondary three so last year they started secondary three those students in secondary three this year is doing their all levels yeah that's that kind of stuff it's all going to be down to content i think the hardware all the features stuff like that like it's fine it's good it's great but now it's all about what you've documented as experiments that kids can complete right live by teachers so yeah that's why we're just at it and yeah so we have two nutrients at it you work on this we're doing doing experiments documentation that's very good just like that so so they focus on sensors they don't focus on python this project so they they just connect one sensor and like okay first you take this wire and you plug it in there and yeah so they have a lot of different sensors already they have everything there and they can just like go through and do it so i hope yeah it seems like the william tan he's really pushing for it so it seems like so and then we work together with dunman high school this was asia projects anyways but i'm not yet clear if they do python what specifically what they do i think like usually they have like some some project that's already like really made projects like macro bit or something so so i'm not exactly clear what specifically what they make i mean i think that if we if you could give us like a question and that we can and then we can follow the question so what we did just last week was also we wrote down a lot of questions yeah because pat mar just comes and shows the devices it's great there can be many things then like uh like people like you right they say oh yeah i can see it and totally see it but like a lot of people say well i'm interested in the subject but i don't know no what what does it mean many things what so many things yeah i saw help in some way is the measurement aspect yeah i see this is full of features but certain terms and measurements we have to be clear yeah so obviously your boat meter only can do this you cannot combine your answer you give me it's not really so we just have to be clear in it documenting the aspect yeah okay and i can give you some advice yeah that would be oscilloscope oscilloscope is measure ac but through ac boat meter is different so those are things yeah so your oscilloscope is to make us a perfect second so your what is the bandwidth of your so for professional it's like there's some information yeah some major information on the measurements i need to be clear yeah yeah so how how do how would one do that how would one go ahead with that so basically write down what we have or put together what we have and then so so for example like yeah well is that your target is that your target market like professionals like every professional you when you're talking to school uh you you have to be quite clear in certain aspect when you start talking about management if there's a difference between data and measuring so if you if you study some data then it's fine yeah you are there but so so what i think they need is textbooks like they need the textbooks and they need the teacher's guide that's what no i'm not even there i'm just saying when you when you put this up like what do you know website we just have to clarify what the measurement part of it and look that that is not a lot of work just just to give you some feedback still my my my question would be how much would put that work in a professional where really there are startups who say oh cool i can use that to measure some things in my hardware i don't need these devices and a partner said earlier that it's like people devices could like add up already whereas here we have one but like i don't know myself enough to to say oh it's good enough or you know or something to say my my opinion many years in measurement field it's not up to professional yet this is almost a DIY but if you really want to go further then we have to look into the methodology the calibration of course those of spending we can get some current specification and will be i think it's useful for some lower frequency use but we just have to clarify the specification because they are on seats to you there are devices that cover some of what we cover but they they marketed it something very professional well thank you very much yeah awesome okay thank you