 Welcome to the 21th Convention, 2019 of Orlando, Florida. From my experience, the 21th Convention is a coming of the minds for various wide ranges of topics, be it health and wellness, fitness, dating, relationships, even finance and entrepreneurship. And I find that really valuable and important. To me, it's real world accountability. Men's are meeting up with other men. Be held accountable, you know, and then you'll find the consequences of that. What we're here to experience is we can only really learn to experience. Why somebody who's very focused on, not why, my big thing with it is just having awareness. That's the problem is that people will experience the same problem over and over. They'll ask that stuff to awareness. A lot of guys get caught in the kind of analysis paralysis. What's my perfect plan or anything? So you can't think your way into being a better person than yourself. You just have to act. You have to do stuff. And a lot of guys get scared. And I think that's one of the differences between the kind of guys who become the speakers. These are the guys who are actually doing things as opposed to just theorizing or talking about them. I think with suffering and lack of father energy in our culture, either fathers aren't there or if they're there, they're weak. I was left to have a strong father. I didn't understand the power of having a strong father until I was much older. I definitely recommend going through it. You're interacting with a whole bunch of great people. You get to interact with speakers. I hope you're just walking away from this event with tools, strategies, and steps for me to take going forward on how I can improve my own life, be it in fitness or with starting up my own business. Talking to a lot of guys, I would see guys and I'm like, what did you think? They go, they did this. Their mind was blown kind of thing. And I thought, wow, good. Good. That said it all. This is awesome. It was so positive. Like you talked about, hope, optimism, positivity. That was this event. Got to be strong. To be a strong man is inside and out. One of the speakers said so poetically and beautifully that if you're not strong, you're weak. And we are live on the 19th edition of the Red Man Group. Welcome one and all. I, of course, am your host and moderator, Donovan. We've got the phone lines open right now, 914-205-5356. Again, that is 914-205-5356. Today is going to be sort of a free for all, man. We're going to talk about the year in review, what happened in 2019. And this is going to be the last Red Man Group of the decade. Moving forward, we're moving into the 2020s. Very exciting times ahead. But the Red Man Group, of course, is brought to you by the 21 Convention Patriarchs Edition, as well as the 22 Convention. Both of those are going to be running concurrently with one another. If I'm not mistaken, Anthony, and correct me on the dates, I believe the 21 Convention Patriarchs Edition, I think it runs from, oh my God, I can't believe I can't remember this. I think it runs until, I think it's like either, I think it might be May or April. So, Anthony, do me a favor, clarify what the dates are for the 21 as well as the 22 Convention. Yeah, so 22 Convention tickets for starters just went on sale last night for women, and that's at 22convention.com, 22convention.com. And the dates, so the events run concurrently, the women's convention, the 22 Convention is one day shorter, kind of like Patriarchs was initially earlier this year. It's a new event and a little bit shorter at three days instead of four is easier for us to manage. So, the dates are for the Patriarchs Edition, the second annual Patriarch Edition of 21Con. That is April 30th through May 3rd, 2020. That's Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, all day, all night, basically. And that's April 30th through May 3rd, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And the 22 Convention is May 1st to May 3rd, so Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And they'll be at the same city, same venue, same location. They'll be separate events, separate conference rooms, probably within 100 feet or whatever of each other. And ticketing is separate to each event with the exception that it's separate ticketing to each conference room, but really the whole thing is a couple's event if you want it to be. So, each ticket to each event comes with a plus one. And if you're a woman and you want to bring a friend, you can go to 22 Convention and bring a friend for free. If you're a man and a father attending Patriarch, you can bring a friend for free. Or, for either event, you can send your spouse, your girlfriend, or whatever to the opposite event. So, if you're a father attending Patriarch, you can send your woman to the 22 Convention for free on your ticket to Patriarch. And the same is true in a verse. If a woman is attending the 22 Convention, she can send her husband for free to Patriarch, basically just down the hall. The events will have a little bit of crossover. We might do one night where there's a co-event, maybe like Sunday night. Uh-oh. But other than that, yeah, exactly, right? But other than that, they're separate events. And, yeah, in the evenings, I think people will get together on their own anyway. Yeah. But the events will be separate. Separate dinners, separate conferences, speeches, workshops. 22 Convention, we're not doing any workshops as of right now to simplify the event and keep things manageable. But the Patriarch's edition will once again have the workshops, which are a fan favorite now, the attendees. We started doing those earlier this year at Patriarch, and we did them in Poland and then again in Florida. And they're probably the best part of the event at this point, because you get to work so closely with the speakers. And at Donovan, you did a workshop, both at Patriarch and later at the Florida event. In Florida, it was hot, man. People were laughing like crazy and having a wild time. Yeah, I always enjoy doing those, man. Honestly, if I could do a podcast, if I could do a daily podcast in a room like a workshop, I'd probably do five of those a day, man, because I can't think of anything more than that. I can't think of anything that's more fun, more helpful, more enjoyable, things like that. Erie Code 417, I see you in the queue. We're going to get to you here in just one second. Guys, call the number 914-2055356. We're talking about the year in review, how the Manisphere has changed, how the Manisphere has changed your life. We want to hear your stories, requests, suggestions, whatever, trolls. If you want to call in, I'm more than happy to hang up on you and make fun of you and point and laugh and all that good stuff. We're here for the entertainment value. Before we get started, let us introduce today's esteemed panel. First up, of course, is the man, the myth, the legend, Steve, the Dean Williams, who is sporting a Philadelphia Eagles hat because he lost a bet to me the other day. I think this is the final day of your sentence. Am I wrong? Yeah, well, no. Well, it's this one. I'm going to do a rhyme with the Dean show today and that'll be it. And that'll be that. All right. Yeah, Steve is getting out. Steve is getting out on parole. Next up is, of course, Texas God, man. Tech, how's it going, man? It's been a while since we've seen you on the show. Yeah, glad to be back, guys. Definitely glad to be here. Having a good time. Very good. And of course, if you guys haven't figured it out already, judging by his hat and his name and his truck, Tex is, of course, from Texas. Not that I didn't know. Well, I'd like to point out that 50% of the show is coming from Texas. Oh, hey, that's right. The Dean is in Texas as well. So we've got Texas, Florida. We've got Pennsylvania. So we're sort of the League of Nations here. Last and certainly not least, the founder and CEO of the 21 of the 21 conventions as well as 21 studios, Anthony Dream Johnson. Anthony, how's it going today, man? You're pretty good, man. Very excited to put that trailer out. The new tickets to the new event. What's going on? Busy weekend. Yeah, dude, that trailer was kickass, man. Dude, if that doesn't get you fired up for what's coming in 2020, I don't know what does. Now, let us seamlessly segue into... So what we're going to do is we're going to talk about what happened in 2019. That's going to be about the first half of the show. Then we're going to talk about what's to come in 2020. Before we do that, let's go ahead and go to the phone lines. Erie Code 417, you're on live with the Red Man Group. Go ahead. Hey, there. It's good to finally be able to talk to some of you guys. Absolutely. Dale from Missouri. Okay. I'm a Marine. Currently active duty and finishing out my year with a funeral, but also Christmas at home, which was a blessing. Okay. Yeah. So I just want you guys to know that over the last year or two, especially some of the advice that has come from this panel and from George and Stefan, who I know you guys also work with, has just been instrumental in getting unstuck and starting to really move forward and improve my life. Good. Good. Yeah, man. We appreciate that, man. Before we let you go, what has been the single most pivotal, or I'll put it to you this way. What's the single most helpful piece of advice that you've gotten from the panel? Honestly, it's probably just the pursue excellence and excellence will pursue you because that combined with some of the things that y'all have kind of taught me to look for in women, I found a absolutely fantastic fiance and I tell you what, I couldn't be happier. I'm getting married in August. Damn. Look at this guy. I'm getting married in August. Holy shit, man. All right. Well, hey, listen, man, just keep your wits about you. Hopefully you're going the private marriage route. Hopefully there's no paperwork involved with that. Listen, he used red pill awareness. He's used advice from the panel to, I guess, snap up, I guess, what he defines as a quality woman. Hopefully he has all of his eyes dotted and all of his teeth crossed with regards to that. Let's go around the panel here and talk about that last call there. Tex, what are your thoughts on this guy? He's a Marine. Looks like he's going to have a wedding here pretty soon. He just had a funeral. What are your thoughts on guys like that who benefit from content like this? Well, I'll tell you what, first of all, Dale, if you're still listening, I think you are. Thanks for your service, man. We appreciate what you do. Keeping us all the ability to get online and do this shit that we want to do. Yeah. I mean, just got to watch out for the dependent eponymous. Right? I mean, that girl that marries into the military and, you know, she just sits on the couch all day. As long as you think you've got a winner, you just got to vet her real well. Does she have a work ethic? You know, hopefully you're right with the advice that you've gotten from these guys and others. I mean, you just have to go in this with your eyes. Well, I don't know what the hell you're, you know, what you're getting into. It can be great, you know, but it's all about vetting and choosing wisely. So tip of the cap and I wish you all luck. Absolutely. Steve, what are your thoughts on what Tex just said? I think, in my opinion, I think the vetting process is the most it's what it is the most important. It's the most important step when selecting a woman. So what are your thoughts on guys like Dale, who is like, Hey, listen, I found I found a girl. I'm happy as hell going to get married. I listen, obviously I would, I would like to think that he's vetted her properly. But why do you think that men fail to vet women properly? Why do they not wait and do what's necessary? Oh, because a lot of men out there don't know the importance and significance for their last name and what it represents to them. So the fact that he's doing it, I'm, again, his service, I appreciate the service coming from Army guy from Army to him. But, but no, I just think that a lot of guys have no idea, no self definition of who they are. So if you don't know who you are, you know, and again, it's your, you know, as a man, you have a choice if you want to get married or be single. That's the beauty of being a man. But at the end of the day, I can only respect his decision that he makes, but I just hope that he keeps listening to us and to those that are married, to those who are not married and to help him navigate when he needs help, brother. All right, Anthony, the vetting procedure. Listen, your, your, your stint with Medusa is certainly well documented. Yeah. And what we have to understand is that you can be, this doesn't guarantee anything, right? You can vet a woman thoroughly, but she can still, she can still get the jump on you. Yep. If you do know, Anthony, where did you go wrong when you misjudged Medusa? Or was she, was she BPD? Was she, was she, what do they call it, dark triad? Yeah. So there's a couple, yeah, a couple of issues I'd like to dig into with this. Number one, the caller, thank you for your service. Like Tech said, not only a hundred percent, a thousand percent. As far, I'm glad, I'm glad you brought up the private marriage issue. So I was actually reading a book by Donald Trump the other day. One of his older ones, like 2007 or something like that. But as they think big and kick ass or something like that. It's great title, great book. And he actually talked about marriage and part of the beginning of the book. And it's not even about, the book is obviously not about marriage. It's about business and mindset and all these things that he, that he does is Donald Trump. And he actually mentioned that you should always, always, always get a prenup. And now he's been through a couple of divorces and things like that. So that's not too surprising that he would say that. But really what he, what he said was kind of profound. And I don't have a direct quote at the ready for it, but essentially, and I would say either prenup or private marriage are good options. I mean, the prenup would be at minimum. But his basis was that people marry for love, but the marriage certificate is not about love. And when the love ends or if it ends, marriage certificates, marriage licenses given to you by the state and the government, they don't recognize love. They don't give a shit. And then once it's gone, it's gone. And what you have left is two people that do not get along and are going to duke it out in court. And as we know, this goes really nasty, a very high amount of the time. And often then, of course, men are abused in the court system systematically. The courts are biased against us with child custody, alimony, 98% of alimony in the United States goes to women, 98%. A lot of that's lifetime. Like in California, I think it's fucking nuts. It never ends. Literally ever to the day one of you fucking dies. So, you know, Donald Trump's saying what's always, always, always get a prenup. Because it might last forever. My grandparents are married well over 50 years before they died. Or it might last a couple years, like in my case. And, you know, with personality disorders and things like that that hide beneath the surface. And you mentioned vetting. And I actually did a podcast a couple years ago with Christian McQueen, one of our speakers in 2017. You know, it's a lot of you guys on the panel. Oh, yeah. And he asked me and he was surprised at how long I had dated Medusa before we got married. And the answer to that question is two and a half years. And most people say, oh, two years, two years, two years is the goal. And that's really not the case. Because while it can be the case, but there's a level, and I've talked about this before, there's a continuum of effort and dedication that someone's going to have to fake things. And most women are not going to have the tenacity and the drive to fake it past two years, which is where that advice comes from. But the ones you have to really worry about, the ones you should be most worried about, are the ones with something wrong with their brain or their trauma or their childhood or whatever that motivate them to almost cartoon levels to fake things and to navigate different social and familial situations to actually get someone on the hook. And in my case, I was so philosophically dedicated to not bringing the government into my home and my family and my relationship that I kept that out. And thank God I did, because that marriage ended up blowing up in my face. But whether or not it would have blown up in my face, the idea of private marriage, I think is even better than a free nap, which is keeping the government out of your life completely and deliberately not getting a marriage license at any point. And your family is aware of this before the fact, your friends, everybody, including the woman, obviously. So I don't know if I went off in too big of a tangent there, but I wish the best for this guy. I hope it turns out well. Obviously, you know, a hundred can maybe speak to it, but, you know, infidelity for military men is huge, them getting cheated on and stuff and all that. That's notorious throughout, I think, all branches of the military. So I'm kind of worried about that, and I hope it goes well. I hope he gets a prenup for private marriage. Can you guys still hear me? Yeah, unfortunately. All right. For whatever reason, I can hear myself. I like to hear myself talk. Yeah, what are your thoughts on private marriage? Because, again, this guy's a Marine. He's happily engaged, but we all know what military wives get up to when their husbands are deployed or when their husbands are active duty. I'm a product of that. When my dad was active duty Army and Air Force, my dad used to go TDY to Tokyo and all these other kind of countries, and my mom is sleeping around, right? So what are your thoughts on a private marriage with regards to the way things are today? You don't have a private marriage. The state of, I don't know, what do you live on, like, Israel or somewhere like that? The state is involved in your marriage, but what would you advise guys to do if they really absolutely wanted to get married? So I've passed it a few times. Mine was the normal route. I got married young and I got married before any of this was a thing. So there was no red pill, there was nobody guiding me on the ways of the land for men. So I was very plugged in, very, you know, following the path that I'd seen laid out for others. So you get married in the church, you sign your certificate, you know, she takes your name, happy to go lucky, white picket fence, let's go. Nowadays, armed with the knowledge we have and the environment we're living in, private, it just makes sense to me to just do your own thing. You know, there's no need to sign the state contract, but I don't think it matters. You know, at the end of the day, you're linking up with this lady and the state will get its piece of the pie. I think Anthony made out. I do think, you know, going his route helped, but are we looking at making the marriage last? Are we looking to make sure that when it breaks down, you get the most, you know, for yourself. You don't get as damaged. So it depends on what we're really trying to figure out here. The best way to ensure you aren't as damaged, yeah, go private. But the best way to make it so it doesn't break down in the first place, you know, you've got to go. But this goes back to vetting. This goes back to the original point of, what do we see in 2019? What do we see more of in 2020? You know, I think we're going to see more men trying to figure out how do I have the family? How do I properly do this to where it's not blown up? Because you're right. Men in the military, dude, you're in an environment where you're gone all the time. And then the other dudes around there, they're not schmucks. I mean, everybody has their groups of just total shit bags, but there's pretty motivated men who are in shape, who are doing their thing, who are single. They don't give a fuck. They're Mr. Chad. And your wife is around that while you're gone all the time. All the time, yeah. So there's a reason I left the Navy. It was not conducive to family life. And I know there's a lot of men who do their 20 years and they were able to keep it together. I wasn't able to do that. So in my opinion, I don't think it really can be done. I think you don't know your kids unless you're one of the guys who was all land 24 seven, maybe the Air Force. I have no idea. But for the Navy, you're always gone like nonstop. You're either training somewhere or you're going to school for something or you're deployed. So that's the lifestyle. Yeah. So what I'm getting from you, just to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that if you are in the military, if you're a young man in the military and you want to start a family, you're advising men to wait until you get out of the military to start a family because being gone all the time and the culture, what it is, your wife is in an environment that is conducive to infidelity or time it properly. Okay. So I knew I did five years in the ship. My kids, you know, I had my son and he was maybe three. And then I went to shore duty where I was home 24 seven. Okay. There was no schooling. So I made sure I deployed these five years. Now I'm going to get my three. I'm going to get mine from the Navy. And then I'm going to be home all the time. I'm going to have my family do that. But then I'm out because I knew another five years on the ship. I'm not going to know my kids. I'm not going to know what's going on with them. I'm not going to know what's going on with the wife. Yeah. And Hunter, if I can follow up with the private marriage thing, I think it's, yeah, it's a lot more important to, you know, choose the right woman. Be the right man in the first place. So the things work out and don't blow up in your face or anyone's face. However, I also look at Sean Smith. You know, one of our speakers in the psychologist, it's been on the show and stuff. And he talks a lot about risk management and he writes, you know, he's written books on this and talked about it pretty extensively. And for me, that's what, you know, good prenups that you have in states where they're honored and you have an attorney review it, you know, extensively, or you just go to private marriage route and you just say, you know, fuck the state completely. These are risk management tools. Yeah. My advice is both proper vetting with the private marriage. Yeah. That's my, the blueprint I give guys when they ask me how to do it. Yep. So I'm not, I'm not anti marriage or anti family at all. I'm very pro those things, but I also recognize, you know, we both do how dangerous that shit is today. And I don't, I mean, I would, I don't know why you do a prenup today instead of a private marriage, but in both cases, at least you're doing something productive for your life and protective and see it's risk management. And I hope this guy that called in doesn't get legally married unless he has. I wanted to congratulate him and say, hey, listen, man, good for you. Happy for you, but I didn't want to. I don't know. I guess I should have done like Steve and punched him in the chest. I didn't want to, I didn't want to piss on his parade, but. Yeah, exactly. I felt the same way. Yeah. But by the same token as men, we got to be smart about this man. We understand that women are opportunistic creatures. And there, listen, man, there are women who, there are groups of women out here who attempt to pray on military men. Get married to a military guy. A woman knows that if she gets married to a military guy, they're pretty much going to be taken care of for the rest of their lives. They've got the benefits. They get the, let me do, they get to travel the world. They get to, you know, a military sponsored healthcare food. I mean, all, I mean, it's, it's a great life. I live that life as a kid that's very tempting and enticing to women. So hopefully the guy who called in, the Marine knows and understands that, that she's marrying him for what he is. Just understand that when you leave the Marines, man, that dynamic may change. It's all fine and dandy now. I don't know you, I don't know what your woman is like, but just make sure you're vetting her to the, you're vetting her to the point to where she knows who and what you are. Make sure you're the same guy when you get out of the Marines as you were when you were in the, when you were in the Marines. And I would definitely explore maybe the concept of private marriage. Yeah. And if I can, you know, put a quote on it, like I said with the Donald Trump quote, the minute that there's a serious dispute and the love is dead or whatever the fuck's going on, the government does not give a shit about the fact that you guys used to be in love and you thought you've edited her and all these things. Assuming that that happens and it does happen plenty, you know, good amount of the time. So yeah, it's, it's, it's a very serious contract. And that's, that's really what Donald Trump was getting at his book discussing prenuptes and marriages that marriage is a fucking very serious legal contract. It's a business contract. And it does not give a shit about love. It doesn't give shit about feelings, her feelings, your feelings, anyone's feelings. So it's a serious business contract with serious consequences and there's systemic irrational bias against you as a man. The fact that you have an XY, you know, DNA set and a pair of balls and a dick puts you in bad footing for this contract. And that's why so many men get fucked over in court over and over and over and over again. And until there's, until there's massive fundamental change throughout the United States in the legal system, then you're, you're in bad footing. And that's why private marriage is so important, or at least a prenup. You know what, actually I would, I would, I would caution strongly against even getting a prenup. I think Anthony, I think private marriage is the only way to go. If you absolutely listen, if you want to be able to wear a ring and call your woman and call the woman, your wife and have a family, you can't listen, you cannot have the state involved because now, dude, more and more nowadays, prenups are not worth the paper they're printed on. Dude, judge after judge, especially in family court, you know, the, the, the, the, the gyno-centric, you know, the biased family courts, they throw out prenups like they're throwing out agreements for, for, for, for car rentals, car registration, stuff like that. So if, if you guys think that having a pre-nuptial agreement signed protects you from, you know, the long arm of the gyno-centric laws, trust me, man, you got another thing coming. Yeah. And there's nothing to do with kids either. Like you can't stipulate what happens with kids. It's only for assets and stuff like that. I'd say it's better than nothing, but obviously I didn't go that route. That wasn't good enough for me. And that was separate. I thought, you know, Medusa was a great woman, obviously a mariter or had a wedding at least. So yeah, I mean, it's, you can vet all you want and you can think you did well. You're always going to be biased. The minute your feelings are involved and your dick's hard and your dick and you're the one fucking this chick, you're biased. Yes. You do not have a good objective view of who this is, especially when you're thinking like so long term at that point. I mean, that guy called in like good for him. I hope it goes well, but he's planning intentionally to spend several decades of his life with this woman and he's fucking her. I mean, he is compromised emotionally and biased in all these things. So I hope also that he has people and men around him who can also contribute to this effort and give him an honest opinion, some blunt feedback about what they think. Hopefully positive, but if it's not, he needs to hear that too. My son's 29 years old and I have to think about this all the time with him because he's looking to settle down at some point and find the right woman, have some kids, start a family and that's an admirable goal. That's what your goal is, God bless, right? If your goal is to spend plates and just go chase the skirt until you're 50, go for it, we don't care. But it's such a shark infested waters for anybody to have to swim through, man. And just to avoid the batshit crazy number one, but then number two to have to factor in the little system and everything else that's going to come or potentially going to come. But I don't know, man. Luckily for me, my son's red-pilled enough to have his eyes wide open. And I think as a parent, that's all I can do to help him is to make sure he understands what his options are and understands the pros and the cons here. And I'm lucky in that regard. That's what I'll say the other young men that are watching this episode, the same thing, just know what you're getting into. And, you know, if it all goes tits up, you know, you got nobody to blame it yourself at that point and just kind of pick up the pieces and move on. Big thanks goes out to M. Dale Gann with the $2 Super Chat. He says he's still here. Yeah, yeah, call back in if you'd like. You know, that way we can get a little bit more information on what's going on there. Chief Rocka with the $5 Super Chat. Pardon me. Says peace Donovan and shout out to the panel and the chat. So there's a, there's actually a guy in here. So Matt Prim says he's had dozens of opportunities to be the bad guy, was always the good guy and never cheated. My wife is a raging feminist by the way he says. Then he says my wife hit the wall 15 years ago. So Sharp Assist asked him. He says, Matt, what's your point? Do you want a monogamy medal of honor? Apparently this guy does. Now, this of course is all very, this of course is all very tongue and cheek. But guys like Matt who sort of, they believe that they deserve a medal of honor for refraining from cheating on their feminist wives who have hit the wall 15 years ago. Hunter, what are your thoughts on that? Like, does this guy deserve a medal? I mean, is there no shame in monogamy? What do we say to guys like this who basically want to fish for not having cheated on their wives? It blows my mind how often men come with this angle. Well, I stuck it. I'm a good man because I stuck it through for 20 years without having sex once with my wife. No, you're not. You're not a good man. You're just existing. You're just there. It's a shame when you see this going on so frequently. You know, this guy, I could have cheated but it didn't. So what? There's no points for that. And if you did and you decided she didn't find out, cool. So what? Like, there's no point system here. Is your life what you want it to be? Yes or no? At the end of the day, that's the only thing that matters. You know, are you happy? Why would you say, my wife hit the wall 15 years ago and she's a raging feminist? It sounds like you hate this bitch. It sounds like that's your wife, but you're talking shit. I would not put that up there about my wife. I would be like, hey, you know, like, why the fuck? If Jackie was a raging feminist, I would be online about, hey, I stuck with her. I'm a good man, guys. I'm a red pill bro, right? Am I RMG? Hold on. Matt Prim says he's being sarcastic. Okay, so if you're going to be sarcastic, then I got to put you in time out. Come on. Text does not convey tone. You're killing me. You're absolutely right. Lamar Kickdrop says women got y'all tripping. Panels with microphones, everybody, radio talk show hostess now coming out with books. This is crazy. My nigga, you need to learn to, you need to put down the ebonics, like quit talking like you're in the hood, bruh. Like that made absolutely no sense whatsoever. You got capitals and punctuation marks everywhere. Listen, I'll give you another opportunity not to sound like a hood nigga, but come on, bruh, like you really need to come stronger with that. Chief Rock with the $5 Super, that says Matt Monogamy Metal treat yourself to a Betty, a better, I don't know what that is. Am I behind here? I don't know what that is either. All right, well anyway, let's go back to the phone lines. We've got the Marine back on the line here at 517. Have you got us? Hey, what's up? What's up, brother? How you doing? So you wanted to add to what you were talking about a little bit earlier. Go ahead. Yeah, yeah. So as far as like even approaching marriage at all, been taking some advice from, you know, some of the married guys in the group as far as like making sure that there's shared values, shared goals. And a big part of that is that we do have shared faith. So like sex hasn't been a factor playing into getting into things, but we have talked about, you know, sexual expectations and all that as part of our premarital counseling, which is something that I personally recommend because it helps guys filter out women that, you know, have crazy stuff going on. Hold on a second. Your name is Matt, right? No, Dale. Dale. Listen, man, I don't I don't want to, listen, I don't want to piss on your parade. I really don't. I promise I'm happy for you because I believe that a man who has a significant other in his life is living a better life than a guy who's a player. The player life is great, but it's much more fulfilling to be in a relationship of consequence with a woman that you love. However, I'm seeing some missteps early on here. Number one, why the fuck do you need to go to premarital counseling? Wait a second. If he's super Christian and she is too, I'm not opposed to that and I can't speak too well to that, but I'd be concerned about who the counselor is, totally. The premarital counseling, was that a Christian thing, Dale? Yes, it's something that was encouraged by our ministry leaders and by her dad, and it's something that we thought was a good idea because it helps us kind of go through some like personality comparison tests, and the counselor who is one of our pastors has just been helping us ask each other questions that we might not have thought of to help us better determine compatibility Okay, I understand that. Listen, I understand that and those are all good things. I like the fact that her father recommended it because that says that she had a good relationship with her father. But I'm here to tell you compatibility tests and all this other unanswered, no, that to me and again, I'm not trying to shit on your religion but you're going to have to understand here is that all of that cycle babble, that's not necessary what it comes down to and it's a lot it's a lot easier said than done, but I want you to really understand what I'm saying here as long as you put your foot down and as long as you are the leader of your relationship then your wife is going to love and respect you. Dude, I've had plenty of relationships my own relationship with Devin. We are two very different people. We are opposite ends of the spectrum. We have almost nothing in common with one another on many, many different levels but I didn't need a counselor to tell me whether or not we were compatible. Listen, you want to know how I know a woman is compatible with me is if she follows orders well. That's the way I see it and I'm not trying to be meathead red pill guy because I just want you to be very careful about letting the minutia all of this head stuff sort of out thinking the room sort of enter into your marriage. If your wife loves and respects you then she's going to follow your lead. That's the way that goes. Now, Anthony, you said that you weren't opposed to this premarital counseling the religion thing. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, so I played devil's advocate here with you Donovan and like I was saying earlier I'm not completely opposed to that. So there is a concern first of all that the counselor will be like very blue pill unlike Ken Curry, unlike Sean Smith, unlike Dr. Robert Glover, all these of the guys that we know. However what I'm looking at and I think what Hunter sees too on this is the bigger picture. So first of all the fact that her father recommended it or wanted it or demanded it for his daughter, that's a very good son. Yes. She's used to having a male authority figure in her life obviously dad's present and has concerns which are positive in this case. This guy wants to marry his daughter and probably put a bunch of babies in her. So that's a good sign. So what I'm looking at is the acting on verb angle to blow some smoke in Hunter's direction a little bit there and positively. It's the bigger picture it's the actions. So the specifics of it the compatibility test personality crap I don't support that either. I think it's kind of useless but it doesn't matter. It's like ignore the words and watch the actions right the actions of the father the actions of the daughter the actions of this guy these are actually very much in the right direction even if they're not superficially compatible with red pill thinking red pill meathead type stuff. So I know we're not hugely in favor of like things like premarital counseling and all that but I'm looking at the bigger picture of the physical actions of what they're doing and it sounds pretty good actually. I would still be very wary of getting the government involved in your family and your relationship and in your life. I don't think in my opinion I don't think Christians should even be in favor of that like why would why do you need the government involved in your life I don't think God cares about what the state of whatever thinks of your marriage. What matters is what's between you and your faith and your your church and all that and you and the woman so the government is a huge impediment to that and we'll screw that up the first chance they get Before I kick this over to Hunter let me ask you a couple of really sort of poignant questions here Dale how are you and how the she that's the very first question the second question is is this premarital counseling is this done by a man or a woman or both alright so I'm 23 she's 22 and as far as the premarital counseling um let me just first say it's not how we're determining if we should be together it's just a so there's a woman involved is that what you're telling us? it might be an issue later right so there's a woman involved and you know it's one guy it is a pastor it is based on you know like a biblical worldview including traditional roles of the masculine leadership and the feminine support and submission actually one of the big encouraging factors to me about her is that right from the get go she was open to and receptive to my leadership my authority and then as well as that the does she have any sisters sisters? okay um okay again this is just sort of a warning here before I kick this over to Hunter and this is exactly what Anthony just says it's act a non-verbal action speak louder than words just because a woman says that she respects your authority doesn't necessarily mean that she does okay listen you've got a lot going for you here you have a young woman who has a strong relationship with her father she's involved with the religious community listen if and when I were ever to call myself getting married I'd rather marry a young religious girl than a you know an older secular worldly girl so I mean if I had to pick one or the other but again be very very careful what you're gonna have to understand here Dale is that women are never chemically identical from one day to the next my friend you're gonna have to get this get this through your school dude your your wife is gonna love you one day she'll hate you the next the next day she'll want to have 80 or kids the day after that she's gonna want to jam your eyeballs with a nice pic right so we want you to under we want you what the hell is that I don't know who that is sorry I'm in an airport terminal okay what are your thoughts on this premarital counseling with with Dale here I really like this live aspect this is getting like real one-on-one with some dudes who have been through different aspects of life so this is pretty cool Dale I hope you're taking notes listen as far as the counseling I didn't do that but whatever you know if that's supplemental to what are these you're doing if that's a supplemental aspect go for it like whatever you sit there spend some time talk about things you know if I go to a financial planner I might know 90% of what they're saying but that 10% might really help me with my finances so cool pay attention maybe they do ask you a question ask her or figure out do your thing what really matters is the type of relationship we have she has with her father the history of relationships prior to you you know and what happens in the day to day we talk about you know deeds not words you know does she listen is she complimentary to you oh you guys you talk about things like hey do you want kids yeah I want kids cool check that box we're having babies you know you've got us a plant the role of dad so when you get married she understands that she doesn't run to dad anymore now she runs to you who is that is that something she's ready for you know she comes to your clan she takes your name understand that she's now on your mission and are you understanding it the same I don't know if you guys met on plenty of fish I don't know if you've met through at a bar I don't know how you met or how long you've been dating but I will say this that also plays into it because you might not have seen all aspects of her you know this might how long have you been together we've been together for just a couple of months how many months one six nine yeah listen no no no hold on hold on hold on wait wait call her call her let's let them talk no I want to understand this because and I want you to really understand what we're saying here this is exactly why we say you have to vet these girls right you're a young man you don't know anything about women you're about to be in the military you're marrying this young pretty girl you've been with her for a couple of months you gotta be you really have to be so careful how did you meet her I met her at a ministry that her parents are missionaries for okay ministers to military guys by providing a home away from home I had actually been going to their home for a while before I met her okay so I was familiar with the family and kind of how they were and from the get go she has known that I was getting out and heading in a ministry direction which is what she's already been doing so I'm not worried about her like being at the penda or anything like that when you say you're getting out will she have to go through a deployment before you leave the service I am currently on deployment I was only home on emergency leave because my father died holy shit you're in Okinawa so your station in Okinawa will you be deployed from Okinawa and where else are they viewing that station as being deployed no that that is the deployment I'm a I'm a two three marine Hawaii Roger all right okay now why the rush for marriage what's that why are you getting married now I view one year to be the absolute minimum I dated my wife for five and I made her go through a deployment to understand what that life was like but one year to me is the minimum that way you get all the holidays all the things life death birth whatever you're you still didn't answer how many months you've been together yeah it's it's been like three and a half four and we're not looking at getting married until after the deployment is done and after I'm out and how long is that that's going to be come August okay how long will you how long until you're actually with her full time I will be getting back in well I can't say specifically that's fine this line sorry no I understand OPSEC is a real thing listen I want you to understand deal we're not trying to discourage you from this what we're trying to do is we're trying to make you aware of the potential pitfalls because so many men like yourself so many young men like yourself think to them and don't get us wrong man it would appear that you have the genuine article she's young strong father she's in the ministry you met her listen it's better to meet her in the ministry than on plenty of fish it sounds like she's hitting all of the marks but there are there are some there are some big time concerns so now I'm going to bring in now I'm going to bring in the left hook Steve what are your thoughts what are things that you need to warn Dale here about if anything at all I'm not only going to warn Dale I'm going to warn people in the chat room see what y'all guys understand is that guys like Dale and I appreciate what you're doing Dale but if I was your dad not only would I punch you in your chest but I might be on the road of disowning you as a son because this behavior because y'all don't understand church girls are the young Dale please no offense to your girl but church girls are the whores of the whores man y'all don't know about church girls church girls are the pastor's daughter oh my god what I want to say is is that because a lot of you guys again are gullible disillusion and naive you guys think that just because she blinks her eyes tilts her head to the left and says oh I'm a good girl that she's a good girl the problem is is that Dale you're 23 you haven't had orgies well I guess you're in the church so but this guy you haven't lived you haven't lived you haven't dated enough women to see if she's even the right woman for you you're 23 years young this is the time that you go out and get your responsibilities together this is the time you go out to find yourself the problem with a lot of you guys in the chat room as well y'all talk a big game on the internet but as soon as a woman gets around y'all cupcake and stuff like this this is the problem a lot of women and keep telling y'all when they smell easy thirsty and weak they are going to go on the attack and they're going to lock you down two months man if you were I'm glad you're not my son if you were my son we would have to have a pow wow I'm not sure about that wedding number one is again I understand your Christian values and all this other stuff but I am a man I am a man I don't need anybody to tell me what I need to do I don't need to sit in front of somebody to tell me and again I know that's your religion but I'm saying that for all you other guys out there this is y'all's problem y'all have no sense of self you don't know who you are if you're going to allow somebody else to dictate and navigate your life then you're going to get what you get so I'm just saying for you young man like Hunter was telling you man you only known her for two months you don't even she probably doesn't even fart in front of you yet I mean there's I'm serious you don't know her until you have lived with her and you don't know her until you've known her for a way past a year a year minimum like Hunter was saying this is why this is why y'all go to the y'all get mad at the court systems and all that other stuff because a lot of you guys don't have a sense of self when you have a sense of self you ain't going to have those problems why because if I'm above all things then guess what she's gone and I'm a move on putting your emotions in this like I tell you stop falling in love falling into respect and own that stuff man that's all I want to say I thought he was punking it for a second telling us this stuff man well let me ask you this Dale this was actually a question that Hunter asked why are you in a rush to get married you're only 23 well so honestly as far as the specific timing it's kind of got to do with me getting out and just the logistics of all of it with her family being over here and my family being on the mainland but as far as doing it sooner rather than later I was the one who was more skeptical at the beginning and really insisted on talking through serious stuff about expectations and needs and all that and there just came a point where the head and the heart kind of came together and I started seeing that it looked like this was headed in the right direction and we both had such similar goals and direction in our life and that we were so drawn to each other in what I would say is a spiritual way as well that when your head, your heart and your spirit are all in the same place I generally think that's like a good sign that you're heading in the right direction no shade on you but that's a bunch of cycle battle when your head, your heart and your spirit that doesn't mean anything to me let me ask you some very difficult questions how many girls have you slept with how many guys has she slept with I mean have I been with I'm going to go ahead and say it's been seven and her hey that's actually average for the average American male by the way over a lifetime hang on say that again I'm not going to throw that out there just out of respect for her well here's the thing you can't because you don't know is she a virgin yes or no I'm not going to throw that out there but I do know we have talked about her past as much as we have talked about mine and we've been very open with each other including some difficult conversations I just want you to understand and again congratulations congratulations because the girl that is yours to be the woman you're marrying she has a lot of traits and qualities that a lot that most women do not have I just want you to understand listen do not sleep walk through this relationship in the beginning the middle hopefully not the end because again you're talking to men we're natural skeptics of women number one you're very very young when I was 23 I didn't know dick about my own dick let alone women okay right number two one thing that I absolutely do know is that however many men a woman tells you she slept with it's never the truth there's always more but that leads me to number three do not ask her how many men she slept with because because number one she's never going to tell you the truth number two you're never going to be okay with the number right so don't have those difficult conversations because a girl could tell you well I've only slept with seven guys but then her behavior within the marriage would lead you to believe that she has had sex with far more than than just seven guys and this is again what Hunter is pointing to acting on verb action speak louder than words a girl can tell you anything she wants it's the way she acts that clues you in on what she's really about I wanted to jump in on this yeah go ahead so going back to the actions I'm glad you said that Dale I'm going to be the the total opposite spectrum from Dean you know I've not had orgies or threesomes so I'm the guy I was married at 21 and I was a father at 22 so I'm I'm in that young crowd but understand this you're talking a lot about discussing serious things with her but you haven't experienced serious things with her and that's a huge difference you can talk all day about what will we do if there's a fight no wait until you guys throw down you know why do you need to go and proclaim a life commitment together in front of your community in three months why can't you just act married why can't you just start living that life you know why why does it have to be we're getting married on this day because our families are local and convenient you're dedicating your life to a woman for the rest of your days that's what you're doing that's not something you rush now you can discuss all day finances leadership goals lifestyle but you haven't lived any of that yet and that's the biggest problem I'm seeing here I don't care if you go to counseling I don't care if you get married young I don't care what you're doing here like let the other guys get on that one here's what's bothering me about this you've not lived through experiences with this girl you guys have had what four holidays together what about you know Valentine's Day which flips out because you didn't buy this or you did buy this oh shit you never saw that side of her before of course you didn't because you talked about it you didn't live it when I say actions not words you literally have to live these things these are experiences you go through with your woman for at least a year and the reason I give a year is because that covers every day of the year so you've seen on every at least once every single day you know it should be beyond that but at least a year that's ridiculous that you're trying to rush this because it's convenient like pretend you're married give her a fucking ring you know do your thing and just act like you're married but don't sign anything don't go into it you know dedicating it before God because you're like oh shit six months later this sucks I want to tag on to what Hunter's saying real quick and this is a Sean Smith thing so the tag took a guide to women by Dr. Sean T. Smith a great book you pick it up on Amazon and he talks a lot about like what Hunter's saying here right taking taking your time and so for this call or I would say this you lose nothing by slowing down absolutely nothing you risk basically nothing you lose nothing by slowing down slow down like Hunter's saying spend a lot more time with her more months more years all that stuff go through the seasons go through the days of the year slow the fuck down I don't think you you'd also should watch her in that time too if she tries to speed things up when you try to slow things down that's a bad sign look for things that are counter to what you want to do or decisions you're making and that could be overt or it could be covert and indirect too but anyway slow down you lose nothing by that and you gain potentially a huge amount so it's a very low risk decision with a very high potential output for you okay fair enough last question here for you Dale Chief Roca with a $5 super chat he says think about life after the Marine Corps what about cashing in your 9-11 GI Bill working obtaining resources so that leads me to this question have you thought about your contingency plan what if this doesn't work what if you guys get divorced yeah so as of right now the plan is to use my GI Bill to go to Montana Bible up in Montana and to pursue a degree probably an outdoor ministry which is just the most badass side of ministry there is and then if things don't work out I do have a high clearance from some of the stuff I've done in the Marine Corps George could probably fill you guys in later because I've talked with him a bit more but that allows me to have some extremely lucrative job opportunities honestly ministry is the least lucrative job opportunity I have but it is the one that I feel the strongest call to so why does it change though if you get divorced you can't be a part of ministry even if you have TSSCI clearance you're not going to walk into something else that sucks why would you not stay with the job because you're divorced and if yeah I'm just saying that if the school doesn't work out or whatever else then I can do that and if I end up separated which neither of us is a believer in that but if for some crazy reason it came to that then I would be able to do just fine on my own I could continue in ministry and I've got several backup plans for how to support myself as well as to support a family if we get one started if ministry isn't paying well enough okay I can ask too Coller what is the purpose of actually marrying her are you intending to have to create children to have a family is that the actual purpose of doing this absolutely to raise a family together and I see where y'all are coming from some of you that talk about living together before getting married obviously that's because of religious reasons that's not an option for us well let me say too actually as Sean Smith pointed out the tactical guide to women living together before you get married actually increases your chance of divorce doesn't decrease them actually you're making the right call following statistically following your religious faith on that living together before you get married it's actually a bad idea well I certainly didn't know that let me ask you one last question for Dale because this is fascinating to me your how can I put this is your church infested by feminism like who are the leaders of the church because if we know anything about western religion it has been infiltrated by feminism and so if you're getting counseling from a church that has been infiltrated by feminism they're going to tell you things like happy wife happy life you should respect her simply because she is your wife right you should treat her like a queen because you have made a promise between her and god and her father and this and that and this and that and the third so what is your good none of that at all well listen man the guidance we've been getting from our ministers has been very much in the line of traditional roles respect being earned and making sure that we treat each other with respect not just because it's happy spouse happy house which they stress it's not just about the wife both people loving and supporting and respecting each other with that male headship as a centerpiece of what makes a good marriage what is your plan for being the leader of your relationship what is your plan for keeping and maintaining your values I guess what I'm really asking here is how are you going to make sure your wife wants to fuck you and hold you if we're really getting down to the middle middle we're both very active people so staying physically fit is obviously going to help in that area but as far as like making sure that she sees me as the alpha dog and everything else part of that is honestly we've been looking at some of Texas Dom's stuff and it's got a feel to us so it's something that we have talked about in our discussions of patience for the bedroom in the future but also in general practice and we've already started instituting some honorifics and learned behaviors okay very good so I just want to make sure you understand that just because she says it doesn't make it true I want you to understand that listen you're soon to be wife can tell you anything but we we cannot stress this to you more do not let her get away with not upholding her end of the partner don't let her get away with treating you with disrespect right again anybody can say anything but actions speak louder than words thanks for calling in Dale we wish you the best of luck I want to ask you a quick question I already let him go here's the thing I want to know because this is why I keep y'all don't know where the mark is y'all don't know where the mark is in the game these women are expecting thirsty needy guys I want to know what he's going to do when she challenges him and doesn't do what he says that's what I'm saying they haven't done that yet that's the problem like a lot of negotiations guys you don't have to discuss shit if she steps out of line you put her back in line he's going this sounds like to me like he's watched and he's familiar with some of her content which is good so the fact that he's calling the show is actually a really good son playing in it I think on a lot of this crap way too fast and hopefully he learned a lot from the show to slow the fuck down look it might work out man this might actually work out really well and this dude has 8 kids or might blow up in his face and she's a hooker I think I speak for all of us when I say we're hard because we care yeah we're willing to take on the role of the asshole because we want him to do like all of us want that to succeed I hope she's that perfect like that every guy who's engaged should call the show and get a beating like this and that wasn't even that hard like they need to hear this kind of stuff though these kind of challenging questions and he did good though trying to answer these too like he didn't hang up he didn't get mad he was responding as best he could I think with some limitations I'm 50-50 on this man it might work it might not I agree with this B Candy says he's not red pill y'all know no he's not a red pill guy but I'm gonna tell you what if he is not red pill now he will be when and if the end of that relationship ever gets here best of luck to you Dale you're a young kid hopefully this works out for you listen if I'm being honest he's starting out with a with a he's in a better starting place than most men as far as the girl is concerned if you're maybe 10 or 15 years older yeah like dude if he's experienced if he's traveled if he's banged 50 some odd women if he's done this and that and he's like listen man found a church girl strong relationship with her father I'm 38 she's 22 she wants a family she defers to my authority I know what's what hey war power to you just keep the state out of it I'm very concerned about the fact that he's only 23 23 there's a couple issues like that the good speed of it he's still really young he is older than her by year but that's not that much that's better than that's better than nothing though yeah we got some new guys I gotta shift gears we got Phil yeah man so George let me get George let me get George's opinion on this first George always looking dapper man dude I swear to God dude if I could be someone when I'm his age it's absolutely George I swear to God George he's the coolest dude what are your thoughts on the and 520 and 515 we're gonna get to you guys in just a second in the phone what are your thoughts on this 23 year old kid about to get married yeah it's interesting I personally know Dale he is not only he's he's a client I cut his hair and shaved him and all that good stuff and last year when I got into fountain pens I went to Washington DC and went to the pen show there and I just put a little shout out to my crew and said hey after the pen show at Baltimore DC you know at the pen show I'm gonna do a little meetup Dale showed up and was part of that meetup so it was it was kind of like where the rubber hits the road where you kind of meet your followers there are more than just an avatar or a comment and it was really cool and I had a table full of men that had been following me for a while and since then Dale and I have gone back and forth and at that time I believe he was working he was security at Camp David protecting Camp David and so he knows security you know protocol quite well USMC you know my dad was a marine so I kind of get all that and he's a sharp guy and he's got he's got a hand like the tightest strongest handshake I've ever felt in my life to do to solid as shit so solid guy literally hard as a rock solid dude great posture and and then we've kept the relationship going as far like the friendship with texting and so forth and he's confided in me in many ways and and it's been pretty cool it's been pretty cool I was happy when he when he met his girl when he got engaged let me put it this way Dale if it was just you and I talking this is what I would say to you I wish I had a panel like this to talk to 30 years ago no one did that back then when you got engaged everyone said oh congratulations great job good for you you know like when is the wedding and all that and I didn't have anyone give me reality checks and reality checks are on a continuum there is the on one side of the spectrum are guys that say don't do it your life is over with on the other side of the continuum are the guys that are saying congratulations and what kind of ring did you get her and where are you going on your honeymoon notice you didn't hear that today you heard men who cared about you and I'm glad I kind of tuned in towards the end of it because I'm somewhere in the middle of all these guys and all of their opinions and I think there's no opinion that was voiced today that is unreasonable I think they all exist on the reality based spectrum I would say every opinion that you heard today is based because Dale I know these men like I know you and I know their lives I've shared stages with them I've been on broadcast with them I know their wives their girlfriends the women in their lives I've you know broken bread with these guys and I honestly can tell you that everything that you heard is solid as a rock I honestly cannot add anything to what these gentlemen told you because I thoroughly trust them to the point where I say that 30 years ago I wish there was a panel of men that I could have spoke spoke with and I would have saved myself a lot of problems that doesn't mean I wouldn't have gotten married sure that means maybe I would have handled things differently and I would be in a different place now of course I am 16 years past all the darkness okay that's a whole generation for most of you 16 years past the pain 16 years past the darkness and have had a lot of time to think about things and honestly the advice that you heard I can't add to it I can't take away from it Phil just based on what you've heard about this kids engagement he's a marine obviously he's a solid guy George vouches for him and listen the fact that George influenced this guy on any level that actually makes me feel a lot better about what's to come so what are your thoughts on this 23 year old marine about to get married to a 22 year old girl before I logged in I was listening a little bit I second what you say the fact that George mentored with him and spoke with him and vouches for him he's definitely that's a good thing I will say this that my first wife the lady that I divorced I dated for a short while it was only like three four months so that's the first red flag for me I'm going to be honest with you gentlemen things move really quick the thing that throws up a red flag in my mind is the counseling with the pastor you know I just feel that a lot of that is smoke and mirrors and I know the true nature of human beings and we all tend to make rash decisions and hurry through things because we want that instant gratification and I just feel that maybe he could slow down a little bit as well I kind of second one hunter saying on that as well you know I just think that rushing into a okay we're going to tie the knot here in front of the the state and our family and we're going to get them involved and it's very complicated when you try and untie that especially at 23 I know now I second what George said as well if I would have had this panel to talk to me or kind of advise me or kind of show me the pitfalls of what's to befall me before I married my first wife boy things sure would have been a lot different you know George has got me by 16 years he's been separated now and divorced for 16 years right George that's what you said that is correct not to misspeak mine is 10 years now and I really wish I got married in 2003 so that wow so that was 16 years ago and Phil is a guy who won custody and he made out really good in his divorce and he's not some dude who got burned in court like most men do that creates a lot of bitterness man a lot of guys and I think Steve and I were discussing this yesterday on yesterday's red line is that a lot of us learned the red pill the easy way some of us learn the easy way some learn the hard way now they're obviously there are many many shades in between but I am very fortunate I feel very fortunate that I didn't that I don't have any kids that I know of I wasn't divorced raped I don't pay child support or alimony or anything like that but there are some guys out here who are absolutely they're like dude I'm done with women women are trash I can't believe this they're hard poor red pill guys but here's the thing those guys aren't all the same but what they all have in common is that a lot of their stories started out just like this young marine kids did right she's a beautiful girl and I think I'm going to come to area code 520 next year I think one of the reasons why he's in a rush is because he thinks to himself dude there aren't really a surplus of women like her he has a scarcity mindset he says dude she's 22 she has a strong relationship with her father we have the same values and beliefs she want I guess you know she wants to do work in the ministry so why you know I got a strike while the iron is hot here but what he doesn't understand is that when he is 36 37 years old there will be more women like this available to him that are right around the same age so again the fact that George is mentoring him that makes me feel a lot better about it but again it's just it's one of those touch and go things here let's go to the phone lines let's go to area code 520 area code 520 thanks you're holding your own life with the red men group good hey thanks a lot Don and appreciate being online with y'all absolutely I just had to talk about that last caller the Marine I guess Dale was saying I understand what he's going through when he's trying to get married and all that stuff but I'm like I said before a long time ago I married myself for years running and it's only after I've spent 10 plus years in the military and it's not easy to maintain a marriage after you get married and it's all the honeymoon phase all that stuff and then you have to deal with the harder stuff with you have to work that takes priority over your marriage sometimes right and being military you have to be very cautious and careful with what you do to your spouse or with your spouse because there are regulations that do go against that do go against you and abide to your spouse he doesn't need to be careful of that he needs to do his homework I understand he's talking to George I'm glad George you're talking to him about this stuff but he needs to do his homework on the military side because anything that he does that is negative towards his spouse can bite him in the ass harshly in his career I've never even thought about that to be honest with you Hunter what are your thoughts on that about you know listen anything he does that could be construed as negative toward his spouse can end up biting him in the ass what's so what's going on with that yeah there's a an aspect to military wives where that you can totally derail your husband's career if you choose to do so I mean whether you're the woman calling the command that might be what causes him to lose promotion causes him to get the black mark so evaluation time comes around he's not gonna be getting the advancements compared to his peers so they definitely there is some weight to it to the caller's point you have to be intentional now it seems like Dale was I put in the chat for us he's TD Y to Japan so he's not going anywhere it's basically a short duty but it's overseas so they're calling it a deployment so he's just hanging out in Japan doing this thing I don't think he'll be going anywhere from there so it's he's pretty stable in that sense but let's look at the bigger picture the advice we're giving isn't just to Dale there's a lot of military men out there and like I said I was just an engineer on a ship and I had over 660 days at sea for the last 10 years Jesus Christ and I think over like 500 of those were within my first I deployed twice within 2 years it was 8 months I was back they fixed the ship we went back out it was just a high tempo back then it's just what you did man so I knew hey I'm not marrying my wife before our deployment so we could have made a shit ton of money and that's what guys do hey if we get married before deployment I get my BAH and then guess what you're not married a woman for 2 months and then you deploy I think your life would be good to come back to an empty apartment I've seen it I've been the guy who had to talk my friend off the ledge his wife and kids disappeared we came back from deployment and there was nothing in his apartment dude all of us are sitting in the birthing talk about what we're gonna do we're gonna have some sex we're gonna see the kids we're gonna go out and get some real food this man went to an empty apartment and I was the guy he called and I had to deal with that that was one of the shittiest moments of my life because that was fucking horrible you know it's so funny man when I hear stuff like that even though it doesn't involve me I don't know man maybe it's because I'm weird I still feel the bottom drop out of my stomach primal man you can feel it that's universal I wanna add to this too Donovan everybody who's in a specific demographic they always think they're immune I don't know what the bias is called but they always think they're immune to statistics they think it's not gonna happen to me it's not gonna be me it's not gonna be my family not gonna be my marriage like I was saying like military infidelity in military relationships like this for whatever reason I don't know I'm not gonna go into that whole discussion I'm not even qualified to you but the stats on it as I understand it are pretty clear infidelity is significantly higher in military marriages like this for whatever fucking reason so he's not immune to that he is a young man she is a young woman they fit those categories we can't predetermine what's gonna happen in their life no one has a crystal ball for that but the stats are not in their favor so it's good that he's calling into the show that he knows George and all these things but I guess what I wanna say is no one is immune to statistics you are part of that stat you are part of that demographic and it's not in your favor that doesn't mean it's a guaranteed loss it just means it's not divorce 70% of women 70% of divorces are initiated by women it's not gonna be you who does it if it does happen there's a huge chance it's gonna be her and that's not healthy that's not good for culture and that's not good for you but that's reality for right now that's a fact big thanks goes out to Crazy Pfeife he says military marriages offer more benefits and way more penalties than civilian marriages divorce is very common Chief Raqqa says one more this is very profound Asin Spades with the $2 super jet he says people nowadays prepare for weddings not marriages truer words were never spoken there's actually a song by a check I don't know who she's called but she says I don't wanna be married I just want a wedding and I think that is the prevailing mindset for most women hopefully and I don't wanna get off on too much of a tangent with this guy hopefully calling in today if he starts to feel a little bit something a little bit off makes him hesitate just a little bit and maybe he dodges a would-be bullet we wish him nothing but the best we wish you a lot of luck I hope this doesn't go sideways for this kid because I've been in some fuck up situations with women I just know how I felt and I can't imagine a 23-24 year old kid going through something like that I can't imagine it I think that is an excellent part of vetting as well this woman I'm not gonna marry you in August we're gonna push it back to next August and she's like oh okay definitely that's a huge plus because she's like I don't care about a date for a wedding I just wanna be with you I just want to be cleaned by you for life I think that's a huge and this goes out to everybody if you say I don't wanna get married for at least a year and she has an attitude she doesn't care about being with you she wants the wedding she wants to check that box in her life listen I think that is sound advice Dale if you're listening if you wanna dip your toe in the water if you wanna find out if she really cares about you rather than just the title or just like Hunter said check on the box try to put off the wedding for another year or so and see how she reacts big thanks goes to the neg one with the $3 super jet he says Jag does not defend you when you get divorced Jesus so Jag defend you when you commit an alleged felony defend you when you get divorced Jesus Christ holy smokes all right let's go back to the phone lines let's go to ericode515 ericode515 you're on live with the red man group go ahead yes oh yes thank you for I love your radio show guys I have a small question I cannot reconcile my red tail with being married um I was a player before and when I hit around 38 I met a wonderful woman and I stopped the game so I know everything about girls but now I'm married I'm gonna have a a kid and there's something about it that I feel like the how do I reconcile both sides where I love my wife but yet I don't I know that a woman can cheat on you if they're mad and they're gone because I used to do that go to the bar you pick a chick they don't tell you they're married but then later on you find out that they were married and they cheated on their husband I know all of that about women but now I'm married and I'm gonna have a kid with her Phil yeah so what are your thoughts on this guy he's trying to reconcile marriage with the red pill so Caller if I'm understanding you correctly what you're trying to what you're asking us is how do I have a red pill marriage right you're about to have a kid the red pill tells you don't get married don't have kids for the most part we endorse families but what you're trying to do is you're trying to sort of collide these two worlds together does that sound about right yeah that's about it my wife is wonderful I left all the other women for her because she's unique but you know it's something inside of me that goes like wow you know like women are you know okay alright yeah Phil what are your thoughts on that my thoughts on that are the first things first you know you're getting married now and you selected the one I guess you could call it the always game always gamer keep it interesting keep it alive don't cave on anything you know when you set a standard there is no going back on that standard and that's my personal experience with my wife is you know we have a certain set of guidelines that we live by and that's just how it is if you can't handle it you gotta go and that's a harsh reality but being through a divorce already once before and giving concession after concession and that person display behaviors that just weren't conducive for my overall mental health and physical health I just can't go that route anymore how long have you been dating this lady before you're marrying or how long have you been with her just out of curiosity two and a half years I dated my wife for three years and I put her through the paces and they were ugly paces you know and I made it difficult for her and you know to Hunter's point of saying hey you know postpone the wedding I did that to my wife you know postpone it and then our wedding a lot of like the gentleman said earlier you know people prepare for marriage instead of being married I guess you could say the wedding our wedding was very simple the second time around it was very simple getting married is easily done you just have to definitely be 100% the leader of your family and your life all the time the first scent the first sign of weakness on your part the first oh well I'm too tired you pick the first the first time that starts you start doing that she's going to start assuming control then you're going to have to start negotiating with her you have to have a relationship in our house that's very respectful and it's transactional let me interrupt you quickly I don't mean to do this Dale do not have your woman watch this episode do not show your woman this oh my god I hope he saw this before he gets on the plane do not let your woman watch this stuff don't do it I can't explain why just don't do it call my wife yes sir the more you continue to lead your wife or your soon to be wife in your family down a positive path and the more you let her flourish in her feminine side and not assume things that need to be done more so for her benefit but you do it and then it's done deal you don't have to per se be red-pilled and married you just have to respect yourself first and when you do that amazing things can happen in your relationship I feel that the more I do in my relationship and the more I lead in my relationship the more my wife is able to flourish in her in her role in our relationship there is an easy way to do it and that is simply respect yourself number one do not cave do not show weakness because they will they will test their women bless their hearts they love to do it my wife still test every once in a while and I'm like come on now you're better than that I would play devil's advocate with Donovan I'd say sit her down let her watch it and watch for her responses watch ignore the words coming out of her mouth watch her face and watch what she does watch her live if you can I watch Steve watch for example the trailer we played before we played on the show and it was very interesting to watch his face as he watched the trailer was bad ass with this chick I mean I don't know my I guess my concern though be he doesn't have the skills necessary to understand someone's real real responses and behavior listen I agree with Anthony if you're experienced then yeah let her watch it the reason why I always told guys hey and guys always ask hey should I show my wife this should I show my girlfriend this should I tell her about the red pill the reason why I tell them no is because now they know how the sausage is made and ignorance is bliss girls don't want to know how the sausage is made they just want to eat sausage right someone who is familiar to us says that women don't want to know they're playing the game they just want to play the game so if when and if your wife ever tests you or shit test you or whatever pass that shit test with flying colors in the back of her mind she's going to say okay did he really do or say this because that's who Dale really is or did he do or say this because this is what Donovan said or this is what George advised him to do or this is what Steve's told him to do and at that point now she's questioning your authenticity now she's questioning your congruence but and what's going to happen then is there shit tests are going to be labyrinth style shit tests these are these unpassable shit I want to see if this guy really is who he says he is so I would I would there are benefits to letting your soon to be wife watch this but in my opinion don't get it it's a risk for sure it's it's a risk there is what it is there is the reward Steve before I come to you on area code 515 question here Billingsley Meister with the 50 seks I think that's roughly five dollars and 50 cents US dollars says everybody is brainwashed by the romanticism of having a picket fenced marriage men should not get married in the military too many opportunities true words never spoken this of course Dale with the five dollar super chat says thanks gentlemen I'm boarding now I'll definitely have my lady watch this later no don't do it the one with the 50 dollar super chat the big 5 0 says divorces are all handled through civil courts jag will only tell you how much and for how long you will have to financially support your spouse or dependents know your family and state laws before jumping into marriage as a military man trust he says but verify very good advice there and the last super chat is grovelight grovelight with the five dollar super chat he says I never tell a woman that I am I can't read that I'm an apprentice because like in the army she just has to research the benefits okay very good all right okay excellent excellent okay so Steve what are your thoughts on area code 515 situation here about to get married about to have a kid he's bettered her thoroughly she's been he's been with her for two and a half years he has all right I'm not going on the other side of the street I'm jumping to the other side of the planet as a whore an ex whore in a slut who's been married for 20 years with no issues no problems and all this other stuff he's talking about I'm a player but he never said anything about I'm a man and that's the problem as a player you can play as much as you want but I can tell in your voice that you are not leading her you're you don't see the big picture in her eyes you don't have vision you don't think critically you don't stand on your principles narratives laws rules codes vision statement mission statement and everything that your last name represents for you and that's the problem with a lot of people everybody wants to be a lion until it's time to be a lion and then and then all of a sudden you're like okay you want to soften us up by telling you a player that's not telling me anything because everybody can get women in the woman is like turning on a light switch that's not hard to do especially nowadays when these women ain't shit that has nothing to do with bottom line to all of this is that you don't understand what it means to be a man you have got to lead that woman yes this is the right place for you to get guidance when you need it but I'm telling you don't go being a player be a man and as a man know what you excuse me know what you want and the reason why about the picket fence about the dreams of the picket fence I find that false too because as a man I built my picket fence because I wanted to do I didn't let her build it or whenever and that's the problem with a lot of you guys y'all not not you guys on the panel but a lot of these guys these young men y'all have got to stop believing other people's stories and create your own judge every woman based off the narratives of your life don't listen to somebody else's yes learn from somebody else's but do not judge all women accordingly based off of somebody else's situation if you're doing that you automatically fail because as a man I am single-minded I only work for me I love me and I do everything for me and if she wants to be a part of my world she can and if she decides to leave because I'm above all things in my mind I mean the picture right there that let me tell you something she can go and I don't care because I know I got options even when I don't have options because that's how I feel about myself so I'm just saying all that player stuff guys I gotta throw that out start being men Hunter what you gonna look men how am I supposed to follow that up it's like I'll make something a three-run homer with two I got something I can hop in with go ahead Anthony yeah so back taking a step back to that caller with his chick watching this and stuff I was thinking about it in the private chatter talking to you guys almost everyone on this panel has brought your woman girlfriend wife or a woman you're fucking to the 21 convention for days which is not just a web show it's like you know illustration demonstration of what we're talking about what we're doing workshop speeches blah blah blah right all of you are now all of you are the men you are your speakers of the convention so that's different than what this guy is he's not there obviously what I'm saying is you're able to do that because you are congruent to the frame that you present to the world you are the man you present yourself to be if he can't sit his chick down to watch a publicly available podcast discussion is discussing these issues and she spurges out and shit test my crazy and he fails all of them dude that's first of all that's gonna happen later anyway so it'd be much better for it to happen now pre marriage pre divorce pre kids all that shit and it blows up in his face and the relationship ends he moves on gets on with his life and probably does this in a much better fashion later on down the road when he's late 20s or 30s or something so that's I think with the women you know watching it I agree with you know the game is to be to be sold not told all this right but the issue is if he can trigger if he does trigger a bunch of shit tests and problematic behavior with this and he fails it dude it was gonna happen sooner or later anyway it'll just take more time for her to get those kinds of tinglings in her brain and inklings and things like that that she'll throw these out of her time and it'll fail them and he might not recover and it might be this elongated waste of his life or if time and so it's better you know it's better for that to happen now the same way it's better to learn from other people's mistakes rather than doing it yourself the hard way over and over and over again and going through all the pain and trauma associated with that so yeah it's if it if it blows up in his face now because of a little podcast dude that that's he should testing her if it if it blows up and it you know both their faces do better now than later I was 100% in the opposite until you said that was an excellent counterpoint I like the way you free frame that one boom acting on well I do I want to talk about this guy who's married having a kid having an issue because I see this a lot men discover the red pill they're in a relationship and they nuke it because they're like oh she could be terrible listen you have to be risk tolerant and you have to balance that rational confidence is there is going to be risk with everything you do but here's something that bothers me you're a player you have a 75,000 times my end count but guess what I'm not afraid of losing my woman and you are so it's not your leg count that develops that foundation of who you are as a man you know that is in you that is what Dean was saying that's why I really had nothing to add he fucking nailed it if you don't have that foundation of self all this stuff is just flair you know you're just distractions his glitter here look over there but don't look at me because when you challenge me or you confront me I can't stand up and stand to my message so it doesn't matter that you were a player right now you're a man of scarcity because you're afraid of losing this one because something bad can happen I have two dogs those dogs could rip me rip my throat out I still have my dogs I am married I could lose everything I could get the whole nine yards I love my kids they could grow up to hate me because of lies that were spread about me that's a risk I took and I stand behind if it blows up at least I'm still standing on my two feet I didn't take the safe route I took the route I knew I had to take we don't need to become paranoid because we understand what women are capable of you know all all things are capable of mass destruction you have to accept some risk when you make a decision but sitting on the fence or you're gonna bring this to fruition you're gonna you're gonna squeeze the puppy because you love it so much that you're gonna kill it you know your woman is having the child and you're so afraid of her cheating or her moving on or getting divorced raped that you're gonna bring all that negativity to your relationship and instead of sitting there and enjoying the feminine beauty that is your woman you're like that she could be bad and she's like what the fuck I'm having your child I'm your wife I'm doing all these things you want me to do and you're still pissed off because of some weird story built in your head and now you're crushing the fucking love that makes that bond grow that attraction if I'm keeping it all the way real I'm guilty that's all the time man like dude Devin does what I say when I say but because of past scars because of past experiences with women I can't really enjoy it as much as maybe I could and I know it affects her but this this is who I am these are things that you try to work on but by the same token this is this is sort of the result one of the residual cost of living the red bill you got it you have the scars man I don't I mean I don't want to compare PTSD from the military but I have I have relationship PTSD I wrote a whole post on it that's a real thing I mean oh wow okay it rears its ugly head every once in a while but that's the reality of the situation uh George what are your thoughts on this because what Hunter said was profound he says listen you have your notch count is far higher the difference between you and me is that I'm not afraid to lose my wife you're afraid to lose yours what are your thoughts on that the first thing that I thought of with this with this fella is give her something strong to be to submit to there you go don't don't give her something nice give her something strong she wants to submit to a strong man so rather than bowing or you submitting or you morphing into a nicer guy a more palatable guy you know I remember raising three children you would take you couldn't wait to stop mashing the food when they could start eating solid food you made everything very easy for them to eat and I think what happens is men were mashing the carrots into a mush like baby food and it's and that's good for a baby but you don't do that for a 10 year old kid okay in a marriage we try to be so nice and even in a relationship I mean I'm in a relationship and my job is to give her something strong to cling to not something easy to get along with so by get up in the morning she hears some grunting she peeks around the corner and I'm doing 50 push ups there you go she goes back to bed with a little smirk on her face thinking my man that's my man you know I put on my gym clothes give a little kiss head out she thinks that's my man going to work out give her I'm not telling her what I'm doing I'm not explaining what I'm doing I'm giving her something strong to submit at the end of a day I'm not going you know feel my muscles you know how like dads do with their kids feel my muscles but when she puts her arms around me and I just hear her go mmm mmm and she feels the fucking solid arms and shoulders I'm like okay I didn't have to tell her she saw it she experienced it so to this man give her something strong to submit to amp up your masculinity macho bullshit your masculinity improve yourself don't have the third slice of pizza what's the matter you usually have three slices I'm just having less carbs that's all and when she sees that pattern of you taking care of yourself getting stronger not watching this much television her respect just goes up so for me gaming like some people say well you got to keep the game going when you're married I get that but it's not the same kind of game when you were a single guy it's a different kind of thing what you're doing is you're amping the respect her respect for you is so important I know Steve the Dean always says I'm not into love I'm into respect and I remember the first time I heard that and I was like what the hell is he talking about 100% I get nothing from being loved I get something I get amped up from being respected right so Steve thank you for teaching me that it has helped me in my current relationship men helping men love to hear that um ace and spades with the two dollar superintendent says donovan please enlighten us while you don't want kids it's not risk tolerant not that risk the main reason I don't want to have kids is because I know that my life would completely change I'm a selfish son of a bitch everything that I've built myself to be it takes a lot of time and a lot of work if I were to have kids it's not in me to be a shitty father like shit I really got to be a good dad so guess what I'm the priority that's the main reason why I do not have kids he also asks marriage is it losing frame to propose on one me the red pill marriage proposal right private marriage proposal is this in my opinion you give her the ring you don't give you don't you don't get on one knee just kind of bring it up oh by the way we're getting married you're welcome that's the red pill marriage proposal you don't ask her you tell her that's kind of tongue-in-cheek there Anthony what are your thoughts on Ericko 515's issue here he wants to know how to be red pill in a marriage I mean listen you've been married before can't be red-pilled in a marriage even though she has the kid technically that's leverage here in the United States what are your thoughts yeah I mean I didn't have kids when I was married and my marriage of course is not recognized by the state of Florida or the state of Nevada or any other government but I believe the guys like Hunter and Phil and Steve and Tanner Guzzi in particular are really good illustrations of this I was actually joking at the day on Twitter I was mocking Tanner for this beautiful family photo yeah I was like Tanner's so blue pill he needs to study he needs to study he needs to study he needs to study he needs to study he needs to study he needs to study he needs to study the hypergamous, hypergamous, hyperhypergamy ultra instinct how his life is going to just get ruined any second meanwhile he has four kids and he's probably going to have who knows how many more and good for him I'm rooting for him a thousand percent see I don't see I don't see marriage as I mean there's very serious risk with it today that we've discussed extensively on the show and others and a lot of that's due to feminism culture that is increasing the hostile to masculinity and fatherhood and patriarchy and male leadership in any part of life never mind marriage and family but yeah I don't see it as some some big issue but I do take issue obviously again with inviting the government into your home, your family your relationship, your life you're inviting dysfunction into it without any benefit all the taxes and bullshit these are like very minor things that are irrelevant you need to keep the government out of your life and out of your home and out of your family especially if you want to have a good one that lasts a long time and protects you and your children as best you can dad getting fucked over in divorce court is not good for your kids to put it in the perspective of what's good for your kids is you being you not killing yourself due to suicide by getting fucked over in divorce court I've talked to guys that attended the convention by the way a big benefit of attending the convention is not getting hosed in divorce court this guy lost like over $800,000 yeah and this is just recently like maybe a year and a half ago it was all finalized and that was due to assets and this and that and all that and he was married for like 20 years and then he just got fucking raped in divorce court it happens man had he attended the convention younger in life obviously and if it was available he would have not he would have saved a lot of money and there's even worse horror stories than that but yeah another thing I want to say go ahead George I will say this too the courts don't care if you're a Christian no they don't care so you do not get special treatment because you're a Christian couple like because you're like they don't care they don't care very good yeah so another thing too is for the military guys watching you can get an extra 25% off your ticket to any 21 convention event with a coupon code military after you buy your ticket you need to email in proof of service current or retired other than that you get 25% off your ticket and that's coupon code military the same is true for law enforcement and first responders and young men 25 or younger just email us and we'll get you the coupon codes and all that but then after that you have to prove age military service all that finally I wanted to discuss briefly the PTSD thing Donovan you were suggesting you had PTSD from your prior experiences with women and then you kind of downplayed it because that's usually associated with combat and deaths and like very extreme trauma where people die or get their faces blown off or limbs or whatever I didn't want to compare something as seemingly trivial too well what I can say is that there's a concept that has been around since the 90s that's gaining steam and traction and I think will be soon accepted in mainstream psychology and it's what Richard Grandin one of our speakers talks a lot about and that's complex post-traumatic stress disorder CPTSD or CPTSR stress response rather than disorder and I'll tell you right now Donovan put this in terms that everyone will understand on this panel and watching most girls I fuck that I fuck more than once they eventually find out about Medusa right they see it on YouTube a lot of them are fascinated by it but watch the whole thing I've had girls watch the whole thing live text me as they watch it for like fucking two hours and then come over and fuck me they actually come fuck me because of the speech because I'm like famous to them it's like a sadist thing right it's really funny that speech has got me laid in so many bizarre ways porn stars like sugar babies all kinds of shit what I'm saying is these girls will eventually ask me they're gonna they I've heard this explicitly even recently they're like how can you ever trust a woman again when you married a hooker and I'll tell you right now I don't really have a fucking answer yet it's been four years and I've been single on purpose for several reasons since that time you know past four years almost exactly four years would be four years in February pretty soon but yeah I mean it is it is what it is I think I'll you know heal the the trauma what I'm saying for you Donovan too the trauma is real men when you have like extreme bizarre shit happen this is traumatic it might not be as serious as a singular massive event where you watch your best friend die or something like that where you lose an arm or a leg but the trauma is real the emotion out the emotional scars are real and your brain doesn't differentiate too much between these different things trauma is trauma and it causes all kinds of problems and how you think about the world and view the world and you have to integrate them digest them and heal from them and that's part of going through the red pill the phases that like a grieving process for the bullshit you've been fed your whole life and then having trauma on top of that specific to a real life relationship that just doubles down on the complexity of it and it takes time to heal these things George what do you got yeah you know we can contribute to our trauma if we are saying as men things like she's my life you've heard this concept before I don't know what I would do without her she's my reason for living this kind of stuff then what happens is when she's no longer there guess what you no longer have a reason to live your life is gone don't train yourself to die train yourself to live I will never ever forget Texas Dom saying this I don't know about a year ago year and a half ago where he told his wife if you walk at that door I'll be okay right that was fucking powerful think about that that was powerful train yourself to live don't train yourself to die or to be traumatized and the words that we use George audio dud well cameras done man down I'll add to this when your woman knows that you could do without her when your woman knows and understands that if she were to leave or whatever if the relationship were to come to and if she knows that you'd be okay and that you would even thrive in spite of her leaving she has so much more respect for you right she understands okay and this is what women want guys women don't the reason why women don't want to be your whole world is because now you're responsible now the woman is responsible for your happiness women don't want to be responsible for a man's happiness they don't want to be like Jerry McGuire famously said you complete me women don't want that yin and yang shit guys they don't want a man who who lives for her I don't know what I do without you listen that sounds great on on on the stereo while you're fucking her right it sounds great when the back street boys seeing it or when you know pick up you know pick a boy band or an artist it sounds all it sounds all good and boys to men and all that kind of stuff but it's quite another when it went when it's applied to real world right so all of this rhetoric and I'll live for you and I'll die for Bruno freaking Mars I'll step in front of a train for you fuck no bitch on them tracks that ain't me like that's that's the mentality that went and women will laugh when you tell them this right and oh my god you're so harsh but they love that because they know that they're not responsible for your happiness this is powerful stuff man ace and spades with the two dollar super chat says active military active duty military discount on the 21 convention absolutely absolutely man um yes yes absolutely yeah it's active and retired US military Canadian anyone in the world as long as you can prove it and the same is true for law enforcement firefighters first responders and young men as well under 25 and the reason for the young men is that uh you know if you're 22 you're probably fucking broke if you're in college and shit like that sure so we try to the ticket prices to convention are there to fund the production of the event and the content and reach millions of men and fathers that we do every year over 10 million just their own direct content never mind the speakers publishing like Donovan just in Tanner which is at the same time I don't want the ticket price to bar guys from attending and usually it's it's not but sometimes it can be so we have discounts like this we have volunteer opportunities whatever it takes if you want to attend the 21 convention fatherhood one the main one the Poland one whatever the fuck I want you at the event and I want to find a way to do that and so these coupon codes are mechanisms to help with that okay so the last question uh that I'm gonna ask um and we're gonna we're gonna close at least on my end we're gonna close at the show here Anthony what do you anticipate happening over the next 10 years this is what we're reaching the end of the decade uh you know 2020 is almost here we're gonna be starting the uh the 2020s what are your goals what are your predictions uh give us sort of a reader's digest version upon what you think uh the decade holds for us yeah and I'm assuming you're asking in the context of the manuscript and everything that we do yeah yeah yeah I mean the manuscript obviously exists too in a wider you know cultural uh I don't know ecosystem you could call it it's America in the west for the most part okay I think things are going to be pretty good I think history you know surprise is going to repeat itself I think Donald Trump is going to win in an absolute landslide slide part in part of his own efforts and in part of the Democrats which have just stepped on their own dick in like 50 different ways which has been amazing and highly amusing to me uh and it gets better every day I mean the shit show just keeps going so I think that's a very good thing I'm obviously a fan of Trump and I think that's he's just a representation even or an expression of a larger political movement that has wider cultural implications I think the Manisphere for example I think through that the Manisphere and other alternative content sources alternative media uh you know Paul Joseph Watson all these guys huge youtubers and stuff I think we're gonna survive I think we're gonna survive tech censorship I think things are gonna happen that protect us uh from this really weird crap whether it's all tech you know circumventing that or government intervention uh cracking down on big tech these fucking creeper weirdos that like to spy on everybody and do all this weird sketchy as shit and that's a good thing free speech is really powerful and that's why these people these oppressive uh fucking weirdos want to shut everyone down to shut everyone up they don't want to have an open debate they don't want to have an open discussion they want to silence everyone because they're fucking Bolshevik weirdos but I think they're gonna fail I think things are gonna get better through free speech I think the economy is gonna boom throughout the 20s just like it did in the last fucking 20s hopefully that doesn't end some huge crash at the end of it um but it might history does repeat itself right so I think things are gonna get a lot better I know things are dark right now especially from men and fathers culture has been absolutely aggressively hostile to our very existence uh in every way imaginable from boyhood to fatherhood men get shit on in this country and throughout the west and you don't see that in other nations you know you don't see that in Poland you don't see that in parts of Asia and South American stuff but in America in the west it's particularly prevalent but I think things are gonna get better as dark as they are right now and I think the mannosphere is gonna lead the charge in a lot of ways for the cultural side of that and the social and the relationships and the marriages and the family exactly like what the guys in this panel are doing and like I'm doing by organizing all of you guys into a higher uh kind of medic convention where all of you guys gather and the red man group and these things so things are shitty right now um they've been getting more agitated and higher attention in recent years with all the crap from feminism believe women me too and all that but I think things are gonna get better I think the 20s the coming 20s are gonna be very positive and hopefully we make it through uh any kind of calamity that follows it or we uh circumvent that good good stuff George what are what are your predictions for the 20s uh things gonna get better things gonna get worse is it gonna be status quo what are your thoughts I think people are gonna be more we're gonna be more cemented calcified in their opinions I think uh men strong men will be stronger weak men will be weaker there's gonna be very few people crossing the river there will be some weak men that swim across the river to the strong side strong men will not swim across to the other side because they see no benefit in it I think there's gonna be a lot of groups like this starting a lot of spin-off groups I think some will be more extreme kind of like you know the women ain't you know what kind of groups those guys will continue that the um I think there will be a balance uh the influx of men into the red pill will like everybody pitches their tent at migtow to begin with most people do and and then you kind of pull up stakes a little bit like I like to say you know pitch a tent there don't build a house there it's a nice place to visit but you don't want to live there and uh yeah and and what happens is I believe because women see what's happening with men like what we are talking about right here I do believe that women are themselves known to strong men like my woman did with me I did not have to seek her out she sought me out and I attracted her I did not pursue her so I believe that the stronger men will be gleaning from the you know the top two three four five percent of women and the top two three four and five percent of women are women who want to commit and I'm not talking about being a slave or you know anything you know just being a housewife all day and which there is nothing wrong with I mean some girls want that yeah and if that if that's what they want to do that's awesome and I think what's going to happen is I think we're going to see more balanced relationships and I think because we're coming under fire we're going to be down more I know I am oh yeah kind of hunkering down I am the 250 push-ups upon waking kind of guy and I know that's loved that's loved you know any grown woman who has been around in her lifetime and you know we're not going to meet a lot of virgins these days that just is not going to happen it doesn't take much to be excellent you know if all you do is do 50 push-ups upon waking and chug a bottle of water right away before you have your coffee and hit the gym a couple times a week and read more and watch TV less you're already like at the top you know 20% it doesn't take much more work to get to the top 10 top 5% and what I'm seeing is like the men here you guys really are top 5 you're top 5 and I have 100% faith and confidence that when I direct somebody to a group like this that they're going to receive something honestly I can't confidently refer men to other groups because of how I know it's going to affect them this is a nice balanced approach I think we represent balance I think we represent healthy single lives we represent healthy married lives healthy coupled up lives I think we are a nice sample of all of that we're not never get married we're not like that or we are not run to the altar either and I think and I never want to be defined like for instance oh good god he literally just I thought it was me no no no he just disappeared George get back in here so Hunter what are your thoughts what are your predictions on the coming decade I think we're moving to the physical realm I think there's been a lot of growth as far as brands there's been a lot of growth as far as respect and control and sphere through these accounts that are just online and people I think men are going to start wanting to like hey meet me let's meet up in person let me see you are who you say you are let me see you deliver the message this is why I really pushed 21con and it's to me and I talked to Anthony about this I view the greatest part of that is men showing up in that moment when you shake Donovan's hand you're like oh shit Donovan is Donovan and they're so used to people not being the person they say they are whether they're being exposed, whether they're being found out like oh this guy who said he's a player has been DMing this girl he's obsessed with her and he's never had sex before you're like what the fuck people just keep letting people down but then when you meet them in person you're like no that guy is legit so I know and just looking at my group the fraternity of excellence making the friendship, you're like alright that's a real man I think we're going to see even more of that happening I think more groups are going to pop up I think more stuff like the red man group which shifts very heavily into 21con, you know those meetings I think men who meet at 21con are going to forge their businesses forge their pockets go out and have their tribe whether it's just meeting up once a week to get a beer, to get dinner, to do whatever it is they're doing I think we're going to see men, manospherian men I guess is the way to say it coming together and you're going to see pockets of men running Spartan races, pockets of men starting this you know whatever obstacle courses there are and all of a sudden these pockets of dudes are going to be showing up and being men again and they're going to be less worried about how many likes and how much you know power quote unquote they can get online and more about hey if shit hits the fan I know men I can call who will show up in person Yeah real life is where it's at man Noah Ravoy one of our speakers from Poland has said that the 21 convention is the heart of the hemisphere and that's not to dig into other events it's that it's a centralized event for other content creators it's not like an isolated event for a specific company and it's real life is where it's at man the offline manuscript yeah it's the future it's super powerful stuff Before I go to Steve here that's I think that's the difference between the 21 convention and everything else is that it's tangible right like there's so listen there are I don't know how many groups there are there are so many groups like this but this is the only group that I know meets in person you can see people you can shake their hands you can actually have real face-to-face conversations with them Steve what is your prediction for the 2020s Well I kind of want to tell you what George is saying see the thing is first of men real men like you gentlemen on the panel y'all are gonna be fine y'all are gonna y'all are gonna carry through like y'all have done every year that's not the problem that I see in the in the near decade coming along it's everybody else and how the woman is going to run these guys because most of these guys are coming in with an emotional fear where these women will fear them they have a fear of women and if you're coming in with fear versus or coming in with an emotion versus an emotional person she doesn't have to use her emotions and after a while she's gonna probably kind of think logic now not with real men but for those guys out there because a lot of these guys 2020 I see a lot of these guys going to get even worse the dependency to belong somewhere or be a sheep and follow the herd and not necessarily be single-minded be your own community see a lot of people don't understand about this show right here is that everybody on this panel is single-minded and everybody on this panel is their own community we are just coming together as men as our own communities and once we turn the switch off we're going back to our lives as our own communities thus that's what makes us special and most guys are going to have the problem because a lot of these guys unfortunately are very gullible because they believe what somebody is saying without questioning the person that is saying what they're saying they blindly follow because maybe he's got a hundred thousand subscribers or maybe he's making me feel good or something like that but they blindly follow and it's going to get even worse but on top of that the disillusionment you got these guys that are disillusioned they think that a hundred became a man overnight they think you and everybody on this panel we took a magical pill we drunk a magical drink and then tomorrow we became men and that's the problem that I try to tell these guys you cannot do open heart surgery fly a plane or be a man over in a day but because of their disillusion we call the smiths or if you're in the bible the antichrist and these people that are guiding these young men to their demise they don't see that because we're in a world of everybody instantaneous now I'm not going to go in my old when I was old and stuff but everybody gets everything instantaneously they want something they just hit a button on their phone and they get it so they're looking for everything in black and white terms what is a man in one sentence and then they think they're going to take that sentence and utilize it then when they get into the real world and they get aided by a woman then they're going to blame women and the last thing I want to say is this them being naive is going to be a problem in 2020 because they believe that they believe the false profit they are they are so blinded or they're thirst to want to be part of something want to follow somebody or they want to become something that they are willing to cut the game you can't you again I don't mean to be in the street here but you can't cheat the game that's just real you cannot you cannot try to go around it above it or under it you can't do it but the problem with a lot of these guys is because you know single mom and all other stuff a lot of these guys are going to be blind so 2020 not for these men on the panel you know you men are going to grow and y'all going to continue to grow and I'm going to be honored to watch the growth in y'all because that's what men love we honor each other but for the majority of everybody else that's just hanging around and they're not getting the knowledge that they need to grow as a individual and try to learn how try to learn because the learn is a process 2020 is going to be hard for them because the women to them not to us the women are going to be smarter and dangerous to these guys because they're not coming in with fear or emotion sir Wow well put man well put Phil what are your what are your predictions for the 2020s the 2020s I think Trump I'm with Anthony on that Trump's going to crush I think there's going to continue to be gridlock and it all starts from the top down really and you know they can't get it straight up there it just trickles down to the rest of us unfortunately especially the herd the 2020s I think there's definitely going to be a shift as far as the divisiveness in the hemisphere I think you know guys out there trying to hate or spread misinformation or discredit or propaganda yeah exactly words like that are going to continue the barrage so to speak and unfortunately the guys caught in the ether trying to figure out the guys that Steve were speaking about you know that are that are screwed that are lost they're going to continue to float in that ether and as long as guys like us do the things we do and continue to win on a daily basis be strong be independent minded and carry ourselves with a sense of strong frame masculinity and strong leadership in your family I think that will start bringing guys back over to waking up a little bit more unfortunately I think that the general hate towards men will continue to grow in the 2020s yeah I think that even the male feminists out there that you go girl kind of guys are going to continue to bolster women into doing the things that they're doing now and it's going to get worse and unfortunately the victimization of men there's going to be a whole other generation if guys like us or other folks out there in this world that are living a true life to themselves don't kind of work on spreading that message and that leads me into some tribalism kind of like what Hunter was saying I think there's going to be more tribalism and more opportunity for men to get together I've met every one of you guys not maybe face to face or passing at 21 con that's Anthony's production there one of the greatest things I could ever done in my life personally was solidify kind of like what Hunter was saying hey that's a real guy right there and I don't really create any content but I live a particular lifestyle and want to be a particular human being and that's a winning human being so I try to surround myself with guys like George, Donovan, Anthony Hunter Steve and guys like this they're somewhere where I want to be and that's what I have plans for in 2020 I'm constantly networking at the 21 con and other events and there's some big plans in the works for myself over the next 10 years that I've kind of looked back on the 19s and the teens and kind of said well jeez I wasted a lot of time right there even as hard as I'm working now I wasted some time there was time wasted and so I'm going to work on that as well so I just see that as long as a true message of masculinity such as this message right here continues to broadcast out there it's nothing but a winning proposition and the guys that don't want that information they're going to keep that shield up so it's not real so that's what I see coming well listen Phil if you don't produce content I think it's pretty clear that you certainly produce traps for sure you've got the largest I think you and Ed have the biggest traps I think I've ever seen here's the deal if I can't see your traps through your sweatshirt we got work to do man we got problems Phil he actually said this one time if you're not afraid of your dating coach then you've got the wrong dating coach my prediction for 2020 is for the 2020s is I agree with this crazy pie thief he says 2020 this is going to go mainstream the red pill is definitely going to go mainstream for sure it's going to go mainstream in 2020 because Donald Trump is going to win by a landslide and I think his imminent victory is going to highlight the red pill community again it highlighted the red pill community before but this this new presidential campaign it's not going to be Trump that does it Democrats and Nancy Pelosi Hillary Clinton Bento whatever the fuck that guy's name is these are the people that are going to speak out against Trump and people like him then they're going to say they're going to say these evil misogynistic men with their red pill groups that's what's really going to bring this to the forefront I think that's good for all involved for absolute sure I'm very very much looking forward I'm very much looking forward to this going mainstream and more or less being on the ground floor of what's going on here I would like to have a more optimistic view on what's to come but just like Phil says I think this is beneficial for all involved that's my prediction for 2020 I think this goes mainstream I think we're obviously going to get a lot of opposition but by the same token I think that the men that galvanize together and really make it a point to become a part of masculine groups like this I think that's a win for everyone and any man that doesn't want to accept this sort of brotherhood was never going to accept it in the first place that's just all there is to it listen if you like red pill content great we're more than happy to help you but if you want to speak out against it then fine I mean listen we're going to do this with or without you that's that's kind of the way that goes Donovan to follow up on this what your comment with this crazy piety of guy that's this is long ones what I was thinking to there's a guy who works with me now 21 studios whenever new guys and he's like 23 years old he has been watching the convention since he was 11 years old almost since the beginning of the company one year into it he started he found it 2008 so what I'm saying that when I'm saying about him not only he's been involved for a while not helping out and big fan obviously there's an entire generation of young guys who have grown up watching tons and tons of YouTube videos from 21 studios from Stefan Molyneux and everywhere else in between sorry on the car and all these huge channels those young guys are leaving their teens now they're late teens and early 20s they're getting jobs they're doing things in life they're getting degrees there's building companies they're gaining power as a generation of young men I think it's a very good thing and we're going to see them come of age in the 20s and I think they're going to be firmly on the side of positive masculinity real masculinity and the man is fear either explicitly or you know as a byproduct by being around it and the speakers and stuff that we all know and they were familiar with on YouTube and stuff I mean for whatever reason YouTube's been heavily dominated by men particularly young men and you know right-leaning and all that stuff Trump fans but yeah I think that's a very good thing these young men coming of age they're no longer powerless 15-year-olds watching YouTube videos from some guy they like hitting the like button now they're sending money now they're buying tickets to a conference now they're starting their own podcast their own blog so that's they're coming of age where they can do all these things that's a very positive thing for this country and for the man's fear and for men so it's about damn time and fuck yeah with that that is going to end the last red man group of the decade episode 92 Steve Anthony George Phil Hunter thank you all for being a part of this broadcast thank you to all of the super chatters thank you to the callers Dale good luck with your marriage hopefully you do the right thing and wait this thing out gentlemen it's been a pleasure I look forward to seeing you guys in the spring fuck yeah man