 Felly, wych yn ei gael, mae'r dweud am ymweld i'r ddechrau a'r ddechrau, mae'n gweithio'n gweithio'n dillug am y Cabinet Ym Mhwy, mae'r ddweud o'r ddweud yn y dŵr wedi'u ddweud, ym mhwyaf o'r ddweud o'r ddweud yn gweithio'n dweud. Felly, mae'n gweithio am y ddweud hynny, mae'n ddweud yr Ym Mhwy yn gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio, ac yn ymdw i'r cyfnodd cyfeirio yma i ymdechtyn ar y cyfnodd cyfnodd yn ymdweud mae'n ynmysgu'n gwybod yma. Ym mwy o'r ddod o'r cyfnodd yn y cwmwy, os ymdweud i'r ddaf yn ddiolch. Yn ymdweud i'r cyfnodd yn y ddiolch, dyma'n gweithio'n iawn i'r debat. Dydyn ni'n bwysig i'r cyfnodd, ddiddorol, wrth gwrs, mae'n fyddeud yn wneud yn y cwmwy ychydig, ac yn cyfnodd y bydddon, byddai'r unig yn ffyrdd oherwydd i gweithio'r ffordd, yn y cyfnodd, yn y cyfnodd, yn y cyfnodd, yn y cyfnodd, yn y cyfnodd, yn byw'r ffordd, yn y cyfnodd, yn y cyfnodd. Ydw'n dechrau'n cael ei wneud... ...yna'r honno yw'r ystyried cyfle... ...yna'n fawr am y mairef iawn ar gyfer i'r ymddangos. Felly, rydyn ni'n gobeithio... ...y cofodais o'r byddoch... ...ynd darn! Ydw'n roi alwch i'n rhaid i'r byddoch... ...ynd ar gyfer Ionathon? Ydw'n roi'n rhaid i'r byddoch i'r byddoch. Mae'r byddoch i'r byddoch i'r byddoch i'r byddoch... William and councillor Peter Macdonald. Thank you very much, so those are noted. Do any members present or participating remotely have any declarations of interest pertaining to any items on today's agenda please? Nope, so there are no declarations of interest. Moving on to the minutes of the previous meeting, which are on pages 1-8 in the meeting notes. Are there any issues arising from the minutes please? No, okay. Members are asked to approve the minutes of the meeting held on 6 September 2021. I move the approval of those minutes as a correct record. I think councillor Neil Goff is going to second that. Thank you. Do any members agree to approve the minutes? Thank you. Does anyone wish to vote against? And anyone wish to abstain? No. So cabinet therefore agrees to approve the minutes as a correct record by affirmation. Section 5 is public questions. To the best of my knowledge we've received no public questions but Jonathan can you just confirm that's the case please? Thank you leader. I can confirm we've received no public questions. Thank you very much. Item 6 are issues arising from the scrutiny and overview committee and councillor Judith Rippeth is participating remotely. She's deputy chair of this important committee. Councillor Rippeth, do you want to speak now or would you like to speak at the relevant items on the agenda? Can I speak at the relevant item on the agenda please? Thank you very much councillor Rippeth that will be fine. I will do my best not to forget. Moving on to item 7 issues arising from the climate and environment advisory committee and we have councillor Pippa Hailing who chairs that important committee. Councillor Hailing would you like to speak now or would you like to speak at the relevant points in the agenda? Yes at the relevant point in the agenda thank you chair. Thank you very much indeed. So I'm moving swiftly on to item 8 which is creating a vision for the Oxford Cambridge arc. Possibly should have declared that I sit on the leaders group for the Oxford Cambridge arc and I'm the lead member for the environment for the Oxford Cambridge arc. So there is a consultation that's live at the moment and the council has prepared a response to go into that and I'm asking councillor Toomey Hawkins who leads on planning to introduce the report and move the recommendations and I am happy to second it. So councillor Hawkins. Right thank you very much chair. The report before you this morning sets out the joint response to the Oxcoma consultation on their paper which is titled creating a vision for the Oxford Cambridge arc. This consultation is being undertaken to inform the approach to the future of the Oxcoma arc which government has identified as a key economic priority and to guide the future growth of the area to 2050. I will say that the consultation seems to have been designed primarily for the public and there's not enough detail I think in it for local authorities to do it for justice. However we are giving it as much of a detailed response as we can with the detail that is available to us in the public domain. Thing I'll just mention one thing we know that water is a critical issue in Greater Cambridgeshire and we believe that part of the potential of the arc is to play a key role in acknowledging the impacts of water abstraction from our truck drivers and kind of hopefully propose solutions on the regional basis to address this issue and not just that but also energy provision. Cambridge, the Cambridge city have at their recent meeting given this joint response the consideration and they want to make some minor changes and so what I would like to do if I can find my notes is to move that we agree a joint response with Cambridge City Council to the government's creating a vision Oxford Cambridge arc consultation has set out in appendix one and given delegated authority to the joint director of planning and economic development in liaison with the lead cabinet member for planning policy and delivery to make minor amendments. Thank you chair. Thank you so I'm happy to second the amendment which since you're proposing it doesn't need to be voted on. So this is very much if I may speak a seconder please. This is very much directed at members of public as council Hawkins said. I gather there's been some tens of thousands responses to it and I gather the government's very pleased with that especially as a lot of those responses are from people who don't normally participate in consultations on things so it shows how important this is and obviously there are some millions of people affected by it. So do any members of cabinet wish to comment on this? We don't because the amendment's been proposed by councillor Hawkins who is moving the recommendation anyway it doesn't need to be voted on. So are there any questions from cabinet members? Any questions from anybody else either in the room or participating remotely? Nope okay so I will just read out again what the recommendation is to agree a joint response with Cambridge City Council to the government's creating a vision for the Oxford Cambridge art consultation has set out an appendix one and giving delegated authority to the joint director of planning and economic development in liaison with the lead cabinet member for planning policy, lead cabinet members for planning policy and delivery to make minor amendments. So do members agree with that? Anybody wish to vote against? And anyone wish to abstain? So cabinet therefore agrees the proposals by affirmation. So moving on to the main item of this morning and that's the greater Cambridge local plan the preferred options brackets regulation 19 and again going to come to councillor to me Hawkins to introduce the report and move the recommendations which is quite long. Thank you leader. Local plans are important documents for identifying development needs of our area where they should be met and how they should be met. We need to respond to the needs of our area otherwise we will be letting down our communities. We don't want to do that. People need to be able to live in the area and work locally and that includes our teachers, nurses, doctors, drivers, hospitality workers, electricians, plumbers, many who already live here or have to commute into work here. We are creating jobs across all manner of sectors but it's no good to provide jobs but no homes. We are in a good place. We already have a lot of high quality development planned and in the pipeline. Communities like Water Beach and Nostal plus land already identified in earlier plans along with other sites adding up to some 37,000 homes across Cambridge City and South Cambridge Island. We only need to add about 11,500 additional homes during the coming decade for us to meet our needs in full. Now informed by a large amount of evidence and testing we have identified new development proposals which would focus development where it provides opportunities for cycling and walking and access to high quality transport. Now two of those major site proposals are North East Cambridge and Cambridge East which are cross boundary sites for both authorities. Preparing a joint plan has allowed us to consider the strategy choices available and determine the best strategy for the Cambridge area rather than being guided by arbitrary lines between the city and South Cams district. Cambridge City Council have confirmed their support for the first proposals at their planning and transport scrutiny committee on Tuesday Focusing the development on these key areas not only protects our villages from inappropriate development but it also is the right thing to do for our climate and our natural green spaces. It focuses development on places where you won't need a car to lead your day to day life and clearly most of our villages don't meet this priority. So protecting and enhancing the environment is also a key part of these planned proposals. We have been very clear that water is a real deal breaker. We need action from the industry and government to sort this out. The proposals will set ambitious targets for building standards to help us on our very important net zero carbon journey. Our green infrastructure mapping project has also led to a set of projects that can be invested in towards achieving our doubling nature vision and it must be remembered also that these are our first proposals and it is not yet a fully drafted plan and community engagement has been key to getting us to this point and we now want to engage again and to do this we will use innovative digital approaches through our website, through webinars and with face to face events focusing on how to reach groups. So we would like to encourage people to please take part and give us their views. We can only do this together. Thank you leader. Thank you very much indeed Councillor Hawkins. I'd like to ask Mr Stephen Kelly to speak for a bit about the importance of having a plan that is sound and the consequences of not having a plan that's sound. Thank you. Thank you leader. Yes, the purpose of the requirements in the National Planning Policy Framework that local plans come forward is obviously what we produce a document we consult and engage with the community and there is a very substantial body of evidence which we rely upon to justify that the plan is both deliverable and a sensible response to the issues that the area faces. It would be easy in some respects to take the root of least resistance and to rely upon evidence or to seek to gain the system to reduce some of the difficult choices that we're going to have to make. My job, the job of my team, is to give you the best advice we can to delivering a sound spatial framework on behalf of our communities. Whilst we have seen a lot of commentary about for example the generation of the housing figures for this area we both from the experience of the 2018 what became the 2018 adopted local plan of course you will recall that plan spent some time looking at the issue of housing need which unfortunately held up its progress and from the spear report from the combined authority but it was an independent economic review we have taken the measure of looking very carefully at the evidence that we can bring to you and indeed that we can use to help justify the council's position when the plan reaches the all important examination and the reason why we are making suggestions around things like housing numbers that don't necessarily correspond with national figures is because this area is quite distinct and unique but is also because the consequences for not exploring these matters now are delay in the longer term and particularly delay later in the process. It's important for our communities that they can feel confident as we go forwards with a document that we are being robust and that we are looking to try in as much as we can to present to them a real picture of what is happening in Greater Cambridge and that the evidence that we have published an extraordinary amount of evidence as you can see from the attached helps those communities in turn to also challenge us review the evidence for themselves and participate fully in that process if they wish. So there is a lot of information here today. We have taken the step of publishing a huge amount of background information starting with the first conversation around the call for sites and sharing with the community all of the issues that we are trying to deal with both through the workshops and through the evidence that we have published. The document is now something that we want to secure people's views upon and it's a document with all of the evidence that we fully expect to be challenged and questioned about and the team are ready to do that. We've got a forthcoming engagement strategy which we hope using both digital so online but also really importantly where we can face-to-face encounters. We want to talk to the community about what we've published and we want to help them to understand and indeed ask questions and challenge the final outcome because it's through that process that we will end up with the best plan for the area that we possibly can. Thank you. Can I just ask you just to give a bit more explanation about the recommendations of the SPIR report which was obviously independent, albeit it was commissioned by the combined authority in the mayor which I think was proposing far higher levels of growth that's actually been supported in the document we're discussing today and what the other recommendations of SPIR were in the grounds for those. Yes, certainly. I mean we haven't solely relied upon any one source of information but as you rightly say the combined authority's independent economic review is an important contribution into the discussion around the right growth levels and indeed what needs to happen alongside that and it makes the association or the connection between economic growth for the area as part of the devolution deal and the consequential implications for housing numbers and the independent commission looked at the sources of data that are used conventionally for planning purposes including information from ONS and so on and the way that that data is cascaded down or translates down from a regional to a local level and it encouraged local authorities across the combined authority area to take a critical view of the data itself and indeed one of the recommendations, recommendation five was quite clear about encouraging authorities to be appropriately considered in their adoption of national economic data. We have taken that advice on board, our evidence base for those interested in reading it will see the discussion and indeed the work that we have done to reach a conclusion at this stage on the economic growth forecast and in our case what that means for housing and we want to hear what other people have to say about that now. So we think we're being prudent, my advice as your chief planner is it's important in the context of documents like that which will form part of the examination process without a doubt. It is important that we can confidently and robustly defend whatever the final figure is in the plan for examination but it's important also to get it right for communities because we do not want to reach the tail end of this process and reach an examination process that we cannot then proceed upon and face scenarios as previously of considerable delay in the examination process so that we are unable to for example demonstrate that we have an up to date local plan and the consequences for that in local areas where perhaps more up to date government policy prevails against local ambitions set out in a document such as this. So we've reviewed the spear, we do our consultants and officers do not agree with the forecast necessarily contained in the spear as credible for this part of Great Cambridgeshire at this stage and we've set out why that is the case. We now want that we're proposing subject to your consent that we test our conclusions and our evidence with our communities and with those wider commentators including no doubt the combined authority. Thank you very much indeed Mr Kelly, that's very helpful. Counselor Neil Goff, I believe you're going to second this item. Would you like to speak now or later? Thank you very much indeed. So if I could call on Councillor Judith Rippeth to speak on behalf of the Scrutiny and Overview Committee. Thank you Nader. The committee were largely supportive of the plan which puts sustainability front and centre addressing the fact that we are in a climate crisis. We were very sure to see that development, the new homes within the next local plan is planned for in or around the city of Cambridge close to places of employment or situated in locations with good transport links. We had a very long and detailed discussion as you know and quite rightly with many points largely encapsulated within the report. However there were a couple of things I just wanted to add from a couple of members of the committee. Firstly on EV charging points, Councillor Trun Johnson made quite good points which I think needs picking up on. He says, I would like to add my appreciation on the forward thinking targets for EV charges on development. However residents are concerned about the potential for charging cables to be crossing pavements so want to understand the rules we can put in place to prevent this. Secondly, Councillor Steve Hunt also talked about gas. He was glad to be able to, sorry apologies, he says it's unclear that all uses of gas I'm afraid I'm going back to his email because I couldn't quite remember exactly what he said in committee. It's unclear that all uses of gas can be easily replaced with electricity and so if no new developments should be connected to the gas grid includes commercial or mixed use developments then that may be challenging for what kinds of businesses can operate there. It may be that by developments it intended to mean specifically housing developments and if so then that could be perhaps be clarified by saying dwellings instead. And a further point he makes is we mustn't discount the possibility of non-fossil fuel gas like biogas becoming an important part of the fuel mix. It won't be a problem if we build lots of housing that gas pipes don't reach. In summary we were glad of the committee to be able to help shape this next local plan at this first proposal stage. I think that sums up pretty much the thoughts and feelings and we were pleased it was ambitious and forward-looking. Thank you. Thank you very much indeed Councillor Riffith and my thanks to Scrutiny who did a very, well I know they put masses of preparation into this but it was a fairly mammoth meeting as well and very very good debate. I just wonder if I could come back to Mr Kelly on some of those additional points about EV charging and about fossil fuels in new housing. I've got a feeling that some of these are kind of national issues but I just wonder how we will be able to accommodate those extra points. Can I jump in on non-fossil fuel gas? Of course, thank you. Thank you leader. I think that as you can see from the document itself what the consultation is about is we're identifying areas particularly when it relates to individual policies of approach and seeking to set out an approach and the comments that we've received are precisely those that really we're seeking to draw out through this process. There are practical considerations as we frame future policy that Councillor Riffith has referred to that we will no doubt form a part of shaping the precise wording. In relation to the points around gas connections and so on I think that's something that we probably will need to see how national circumstances evolve over the time. Of course, regardless of the source of the gas there may well be carbon emissions arising from it but clearly I think we're likely to see these matters explored further as the plan progresses through to its final adoption. But they're valuable contributions and whilst I wouldn't propose amending what you have in front of you on the back of it I'm almost certain that we will see other similar contributions and be able to evolve the policies that ultimately come from this accordingly. Thank you very much indeed. My thanks again to the scrutiny and overview committee for a considerable amount of work they've put into this and the value that they've added to it. I'm now going to ask Councillor Pippa Halings to expand upon the feedback that we had from the Climate Environment Committee who straight after the scrutiny and overview committee took part in this marathon and again provided very, very useful feedback. Thank you Councillor Halings. Thank you very much chair and through you. Yes, it was fantastic to be present at the overview and scrutiny. I was online and then to the Climate Change and Environment Committee meeting immediately afterwards. First of all what the committee did was to really appreciate the huge amount of work that's been done. I'd like to thank Councillor Dotsitunny Hawkins for her leadership around this and also the officers. What we did was to recognise the huge amount of evidence on which these preferred options have been based and that this has been led by work, by the Climate Change and Environment Committee from the very beginning even from late 2018 and early 2019 with the declaration of the climate emergency in the setting of the net zero carbon targets that was followed by the zero carbon strategy and then by the declaration of the ecological emergency followed by the doubling nature strategy which sister document to that. What these did were to direct and shape all of the focus to the local plan process because that's why we feel we have most of our influences as a district and so they were very specific directions to the council and to our planning officers about what we want to see. That then led to this huge body of evidence which was noted as being groundbreaking and groundbreaking particularly around the water management strategy document that was looked at which is integrated and as Councillor Dotsitunny Hawkins has mentioned has provided for the first time really what is evidence to show that there is a constraint to meeting housing need. We have the housing need but there is a constraint to meeting that housing need and that needs action up front and that's the space we are in. But also a bespoke net zero carbon study which for the first time is looking at the carbon implications of each of these spatial strategy options and has therefore led to looking at more of the buildings in the allocated sites already which are Water Beach and Northstone and Bourne and very very few houses in the villages and that's on the climate change implications of that as for a whole host of other implications but the evidence is there to show us that we need it and then the green infrastructure study which is absolutely fascinating and does give some hope indeed for building it but it's all based on meeting that housing need for all of the people that need the housing that Councillor Dotsitunny Hawkins mentioned with the balance of sustainability. So the comments that came from the committee I'd just like to mention a few of those and that was to recognise that in the preferred options and this is still at consultation stage so we still need to really hear from everybody is that we are setting higher carbon standards for housing than is the current government standard. That's quite incredible. We are also setting higher biodiversity net gain targets in the preferred options than what is expected of the environment bill so that is at 20% rather than the 10% which is expected in the environment bill which is soon to come through Parliament. However we do feel that there's a key issue and that's around flooding and obviously most of our residents and parish councils and others we've seen at most of the planning committee meetings an issue which is hugely important and difficult to deal with with the current policies that we have around flooding and we do have some wording that we would like to propose and that is for the proposed policy direction CC slash FM flooding and integrated management and that is that development must demonstrate it is resilient or adapted to flooding and flood management policies will ensure that the risk of flooding in the area is not increased as a result of new development so it's not just the actual application in front it's about the wider area too so any kind of impact on that so we would like to see that wording considered. Also in terms of active travel we would like to see it more innovative the government has come out with a new decarbonisation of transport strategy in July 21 and it's going to ask local government to come up with local transport policies so we would like to see in those more innovative approaches to active travel and there's a specific request around the cycling links to be shown around the district and finally a very difficult issue it's about the minimum access to open green space per number of residents we know that it's mentioned in the preferred options but we would really like to see this coming forward as some kind of policy around that minimum access we just know how important it is for everybody's physical health and so therefore in policy BG slash EO which is about providing and enhancing open green spaces we'd like those to be met and to see about that possible policy minimum access thank you chair. Thank you, it's interesting to hear you reference flooding I was in a conference yesterday with the chair of the Cambridge and Peterborough climate commission and she talked about flooding and said that I can't remember what the date was but it was alarmingly soon that in our area one in ten houses would be affected by flooding and one in four businesses if action wasn't taken the other thing that she was very concerned about was with temperatures going up overheating and the potential for significant numbers of deaths of vulnerable people living in homes that can't be kept cool so that was very much on her agenda as well and she spoke very eloquently on that. Mr Kelly do you just want to respond to some of those specific asks and say at what point they can be accommodated? Thank you leader I think there are helpful suggestions obviously as councillor Dr Tumi Hawkins highlighted you have a period subject to your agreement of this document where we will finesse the we would expect to finesse it ready for consultation if there's a feeling that we move further towards the wording that councillor Halings has suggested then I would have thought that we could accommodate that in terms of then taking something out for consultation on 1 November which is our plan. That's marvellous thank you so councillor Tumi Hawkins I'm assuming that if that's done in consultation with you Mr Kelly and councillor Halings that will be satisfactory for you That's correct leader Thank you very much indeed and thank you again for the attention that your committee has given to this your considerable effort into it and your contributions are absolutely invaluable thank you very much indeed so I'm going to open out the debate on this to members of cabinet in the first instance I will come to councillor Goff at the end as part of the summary before councillor Hawkins does a final summarisation so any members of cabinet wish to speak on this councillor John Batchelor Thank you very much Well I very much welcome this local plan a couple of points on the numbers my understanding given the level of development coming expected in our area this represents the minimum acceptable number that is likely to be by the government we most certainly don't want to get it back into the mess that this council was in a few years back and we have examples around us where ignoring government instructions does as you know good whatsoever I'm having the air neighbours Utdlesford are an example of that we should also remember that homes are needed we should be proud of the number of affordable houses that we've been able to deliver some of the highest percentages of affordability in the entire country and we will be doing that again and getting it as close to 40% as we possibly can so as I say it we are facing the realities of our situation here the growth is inevitable but at the same time we are protecting the villages and we are maintaining the rural nature of South Cams this I think is an extremely important point I'm very happy to see this go forward to the next step and hear what communities have been about it Thank you Thank you councillor Batchelor points very well made councillor Bill Handley did you want to speak on this now? Any other members are cabinet wishing to speak? I believe that councillor Richard Williams who is online would like to say something I'm sorry, I beg your pardon councillor Williams would you just forgive me a moment I'd miss that councillor Milnes wish to speak so if I take oh you don't sorry councillor Williams please go ahead, sorry people are pointing at me here and I'm not quite sure who they're pointing at so please go ahead Okay thank you leader thank you very much for the opportunity to make a point I just thought I'd like to point out so I'm sure everybody knows but there were some questions and concerns from at least some members of the scrutiny committee about the methodology or the effect or the disproportionate impact that the new methodology seems to have on city and south camps and I don't want to rehearse those arguments today we've obviously had them but I would just like it noted that there were some concerns expressed in scrutiny and also I'd actually that officers are very kindly offered to give a written response to those questions which I've submitted and I'm waiting for a response to Thank you Does anyone want to councillor Hawkins, do you want to just respond to that I think it was a request that to note the debate that went on in scrutiny of overview about the methodology and it's quite appropriate that that happened and also knowledge that councillor Williams has been promised them further engagement and to know when that's happening I think Thank you leader Yes, I believe we have a response for councillor Dr Richard Williams and I think probably I might fall for that because I actually read it yesterday and was going to sort of sign it off and get it sent to him so he should have that I'm hoping by the end of today but we do acknowledge his comment but what I will also say to that is that when we look in at the previous the previous plan the current adopted local plan the whole I think part of that was that delivery was going to be front loaded in the city especially for the crossbound resites and then move into south camps so we're expecting fewer delivery in south camps in the front end and then more as the plan goes forward and it's also why we had a joint housing trajectory presented to the inspector at the time so that is one of the factors which I think we need to make sure that is clear to everyone Thank you I don't imagine many places have more complex situations than we have here councillor Heather Williams if you'd like to ask a question sorry it logged me out and I'll have to log back in I won't take it personally with the machine so thank you leader you'll be pleased to know obviously there's going to be bits in here that we agree with and we don't agree with but I'm not going to attempt to rehearse those ahead of when it comes through I'm sure you'll be relieved to hear but there are just a couple of things in relation pre consultation and I think I mentioned this at group leaders meetings that some of my parish councils in one of the previous consultations experienced some difficulties responding as a group because you had to go to get the next question you had to go to the next stage of a new hat so it was kind of geared up for individuals which is great but it didn't it wasn't the easiest to use for them considering as well that most village halls and things don't have wifi or such things so just asking if that can be looked at to try and make it as accessible as possible even if we perhaps print the list of questions so they could physically go through it perhaps to give a group response so that's one thing the other thing is just about keys for diagrams so looking at page 76 and particularly 69 as just examples there are different colours which might be done for aesthetic purposes or they might be done for genuine purposes or for example we have orange buildings grey buildings, dark grey it's very helpful to put some sort of key with the diagram and I think that would particularly help people to understand exactly what things are I'd just like to say as well with the minimum access to open space per resident which councillor to I think that's an important issue particularly as we've come through the pandemic but I'd also say that we need to look at that being within a certain parameter of that person because we can have x amount of square metres per person but it could be perhaps put in a country park way over the other side of the district so we want to make sure that's in the locality of people as well so that's something that potentially could just strengthen that and look my question would be around whether cabinet is proposing or willing to look at setting maximum density on site allocations because I think there has been concerns raised previously and I'm sure we'll be going forward about the level and how dense housing will be so knowing if that is something the cabinet are willing to explore as they go through the process and some densities in particularly on sensitive sites would be appreciated thank you leader Thank you, those are very helpful questions I'm going to start off with councillor Hawkins and then to Mr Kelly so three questions really will we be able to just print out a list of the questions so we can discuss them at parish council and we did discuss that at group leaders meeting can diagrams have keys as well and actually picking up on your point for people with some visual impairment actually you don't have the sensitivity of the site to see the colours, that's a very good point is there going to be a minimum distance for being able to actually access some green space and are we proposing setting maximum densities on site so starting off with councillor Hawkins and then letting Mr Kelly pick up Thank you leader, feels like I'm back on scrutiny OK can I first ask about the page number that you quoted please councillor Williams So there are others through but there's page 76 and 69 were just two that I pulled out as examples so at 69 you've got like a pink, swell, a green and a dark green and a light green and then the 76 is the one where you've got the different coloured houses Right, OK I'm on I should say, I'm on the paper free which as we did some good in planning means I've got completely different page references to everybody else Yeah, could we sort that out as well please leader because it makes you wonder if I've got extra or missing information I think what I will do on that if I'm through you leader is actually just years with you to say exactly which images you refer to or that sort out because definitely what I want to do is make it accessible to everyone Point taken about list of questions and I think I will leave the open space accessibility to Mr Kelly but maybe make a comment on setting maximum density what we want to do is have design-led plan making and I think if we were to go down as it is we might be curtailing what could actually be great places on some of the sites but I will let Mr Kelly answer that Thank you Thank you Mr Kelly please Thank you and thank you councillor Heather Williams We obviously in a sense piloted with the first conversation a digital approach and we've learnt a lot from that so I'm confident that it will be better than last time but of course we want to help to make sure that there are helpful summaries for them to talk around a table about as we go forward and we are going through the document looking at its legibility and particularly diagrams in terms of the open space points that you made it is an area of ongoing evidence gathering that we are undertaking because it is quite a complex area as we bring together effectively city standards and the approach in South Cometure but we are well we are very conscious of the way in which COVID for example has really emphasised the importance of outdoor space for people both for mental and physical well-being and as we go forward through the consultation process and as that evidence base matures we hope to be able to capture what will be best practice as we go forward and really following on from councillor Dr Tumi Hawkins' comments around maximum density I mean I think it's right to treat setting maximum densities with caution because there are different methodologies for measuring it but even in those circumstances what we want to do with this plan is to create design policies and a design process that recognises local characteristics at a very specific level rather than necessarily at the blanket in position of density standards which in some cases has ended up with leftover spaces on site because I think people can probably remember the government's directions around minimum maximum density standards that ended up with what they call leftover space after planning these small pockets of land we're keen to get the very best outcomes clearly the quality of the development set out in our places elements of policies we're striving to push as hard as we can to create those distinctive local uncomfortable places we'll see what people have to say though in terms of the consultation feedback I mean that's the whole point of the processes to gather a range of views and to bring them to you I think I do understand the concern about what the implications might be for example on densification of particular site allocations and that is something that obviously I'm sure we'll look at further as we progress through the process because we understand the anxiety about what potentially people would be concerned about on particular locations or sites Thank you very much and of course we have to wait and see what comes out of the planning white paper which seems to have gone back to the drawing board that could be a game changer as well Councillor Anna Bradnam you'd like to speak Thank you leader and I'm very pleased I'm relieved that my concerns came around water both sufficiency and what happens to it afterwards and I'm prepared to be assured by the assurances that are around sufficiency of water that are itemised on page 27 of the first proposals document and page 41 so I'm prepared to be relieved by that and I'm very glad that my request that we should amend wording around flood resilience has been taken up and picked up by the climate advisory committee and that's the wording that you will have that Councillor Halings has given you but the other aspect that I wanted to see if we could strengthen in any way because if we take an exemplar of the excellent planning that went into this development at Camborn right at the very outset natural assets in the area were identified and mapped and protected right at the beginning and then the areas where people could build were identified as parcels and so what I wanted to do sorry paper work over here might be fine over there what I wanted to do was to see if we could strengthen at all and I mentioned it in scrutiny an overview I don't know if it would be appropriate in policy BGEO which is providing an enhancing open spaces or BGPO which is protecting open spaces but it's something around right at the outset of developments identifying natural resources at the beginning and requiring developers to work around and nurture those assets in a way that protects and enhance those assets for the people who will subsequently live in that development and if people want to feel that's acceptable and want to take it on then perhaps the wording can be finessed by officers but I hope people would feel that's a good way to and strengthen our commitment to it's kind of open spaces where it's the natural assets within developments that we can protect and enhance thank you leader thank you I was going to refer that to Councillor Hawkins who I think will probably want to do what she's doing with the climate environment group and that's have a conversation and agree between you and Mr Kelly but Councillor Hawkins thank you leader yes I do recall part of that discussion and I have notes here in my document not in that so yes we will need to look at what could you have a look at that and see what we can do about it thank you thank you very much indeed I'm just going to invite to see if Councillor Cathcart wants to contribute because I know he sometimes has problems with his technology since I can see him there and he does normally like to contribute so Councillor Cathcart do you want to say anything thank you can you hear me you know I'm probably welcome this plan it seems to be sensible and innovative where necessary and especially the environmental protections and enhancements which I think are much to be welcome I think I've already made about those green spaces it's often a spoil of spaces that are actually highly valued and very useful to communities as well as the big ones so we just need to look at that and keep that in mind the other I think I've mentioned it's a scrutiny committee as over the years the protection enhancement of our existing high streets and conservation areas has tended to be somewhat overlooked in all the development that's taken place and I'd like to see that we would give good way not suggestive plan that you can open up just as the plan progresses we do sort of think about ways we can enhance our conservation areas and listen to buildings and the character and appearance of our high streets because they're very important to our local communities and I think that's something to be welcome by people in our villages and as well as providing a bedrock of a strong past as the plan will develop in the future many thanks Thank you councillor Cathcart it was quite difficult to hear but I think I've grasped it's about your your focus is on the the weight we give to conservation areas and our heritage assets in the particular listed buildings if there's any specific points and I suggest that you email them through to councillor Hawkins if you feel there's any specific changes needs to be made to the wording before this goes out as a consultation councillor Hawkins do you want to add anything there? No I just want to appreciate the comments that councillor Cathcart made at the scrutiny meeting and I think also I've got my notes here on those and I will use with him to the meeting Thank you very much indeed councillor Hanley do we have any more questions for anybody? Yes that's lovely Thank you councillor Milnes Thank you leader I just wanted to mention because councillor Brandon mentioned agriculture and the water supply and I noted in the stand-tech report on which we base a lot of our evidence for this issue doesn't really spend a lot of time discussing the use of or by agriculture on the use of water and on visits to meetings of the WRE of CP flow and so on we spend a lot of time talking about how to get rid of unwanted water and how to replenish the water that we do want but the agriculture on which we are really very hugely dependent in this area is a big user of water and there's a requirement I think in in the short medium and long term to increase the reservoirs for example for agriculture as well as for domestic use so but we've got limited input into what we can get the farmers to do so I think we I'd like to see some reinforcement of that issue and just to give you an idea beaten potatoes which are two big crops in this area require 300 litres per kilo of water to produce them if you go on to cereals that's even higher oil crops open oil seed rape pulses require 4,000 litres per ton of water to produce so the scale of the use from agriculture is really critical in the overall context and I'd just like to see that highlighted thank you so that's really interesting so this came up at yesterday's conference and Baroness Brown spoke about it and it was also discussed at this week's combined authority meeting as well that we don't seem to be as a country kind of factoring in the water use by agriculture I think might ask Mr Kelly just to comment on this because is it our place to be doing this or is this a higher power I mean it is a good point and I know it's one that increasingly is exercising the environment agency and others and particularly starting to think about with the water companies their licence renewals I think it's probably the place in which water resource management plan is probably best place to set out a strategy we obviously need to keep a weather eye on it but the level of influence that a local planning authority has is very modest in that area I would however draw attention to some of the proposals that we've got in the first time in the plan which is to start to think about you'll have seen the green infrastructure work and related to that is the work around biodiversity net gain and starting to try and identify those assets that potentially can be enhanced as we go forward and so within that one would hope that the strategies and so on that fundamentally emerge hopefully I think supported by a local plan policy that targets and helps to focus on mines and landowners mines in those areas we can engage with some of those water resource implications as part of that and as we look to use constructively things like biodiversity offsetting contributions in a proactive way not only to help ecological and environmental improvements but also to help manage the landscape and we talked about water and flood risk and so on earlier on hooks in our strategy that provide opportunities for constructive conversations about some of these issues but I would say that the environmental agency and the water companies and then bodies such as water resources east have a prime role to play probably in the management strategy for that although given I'm sure everyone's keen interest in the room on the topic we will look to influence and shape that as much as we can and indeed things like through the OXCAN spatial framework these are really important points to be highlighting up into that work of government Thank you and you know we do participate in various platforms that can influence this you know the OXCAN grid art the combined authority Councillor Bradman I'm going to let you come back in as I know your professional background is in agriculture so I'm sure you can contribute to this Thank you very much leader I was actually thinking of my role on a number of members have roles on internal drainage boards and I just wanted to emphasise what Councillor Milne's mentioned because you know a lot of the growers locally have abstraction licences in perpetuity these are non-resindible licences and this is a balance that is is well it appears at first sight to be something unchangeable so we and with good reason because of the requirements that Councillor Milne's has mentioned that crops have for water and anyone who sits on an internal drainage board will know that you know the the at points when water supply is low there is a delicate dance that starts where first growers are asked in always any way to do abstraction at night when there's less risk of evaporation and then they're asked to restrict so it's a kind of courtesy arrangement so it's just complicated stuff and I'm very glad to hear that we're responding to referring to the higher authorities because I think it is a really complicated issue Thank you It is and actually it featured on the local news last night there was a sluice running through Norfolk and there was quite a long piece on the ITV news and Councillor Haylings if you'd just like a quick addition to this before we wind up Yes and just bring it back into that the overall impact I was wondering how within the preferred options we look ahead also to the possible changes from one in 100 year events to one in 500 year events so increasing the resilience so off what has just published a study a consultation on this and it was in the national infrastructure study and report so are we also looking at changing that which would also then mean that we're obliged to look at that wider water catchment management because we have to ensure that we can both absorb and provide for greater resilience because it was bit like the German government said we've been planning for one in 100 year events we didn't really expect them to happen every 20 years and so we're going to change our planning and it looks like this is going to come up as well through off what Thank you Mr Kelly, do you want to comment? Thank you Lidia Yes we have been talking to the LLFA in light of recent events around this very point in terms of the national standard of one in 100 years obviously Scotland works to one in 200 years I think the critical piece as well as the assumptions around the factoring in for climate change implications so parts of the country already have a slightly higher standard Northamptonshire being one of them on the back of flooding events that happened there some time ago but it is a conversation that we're having with the LLFA and of course it will be deaf or others that are also part of that but I think as the local plan process evolves we will take on board and look at this very carefully based upon the latest guidance Thank you very much so we're going to wind this up I'm going to start with councillor Goff as the seconder and our last councillor Hawkins to summarise and then we'll move to recommendations OK, thank you so firstly I would just like to congratulate the officers for a really impressive and substantial body of work here and to call we've got the preferred options document in front of us but to call that the tip of the iceberg is to underestimate the mass of background information and data which is below the waterline and underpins that so keep going Steven, Jonathan Stuart, Hannah knows not on the call you're doing a fabulous job because this is a really important piece of work and I think for many in the community it only becomes obvious how important this is when you don't have a local plan to manage development particularly in this area and oh my we some of us in our communities have experienced what that looks like and it is really vitally important that we do not head back there so what you're doing is also of critical importance I just wanted to pick up a little bit on the discussion which the leader Steven had and was raised by Richard Williams in Councillor Richard Williams in the scrutiny which I think is a really important issue and I'm sure one which will get a lot of focus in the consultation responses and it's on what is really the foundation of this report around employment numbers and Steven alluded to the SPIR report and the recommendations of the SPIR report but I just wanted to dig a little bit further below those recommendations in terms of why that was such a focus of the report which hopefully will be helpful to members and any members of the public who wish to comment on this the SPIR was a really impressive body of people and contained people such as Professor Diane Coyle who is really an expert in economic statistics who I have a great deal of respect for and what they identified in that report was a real mismatch in some of the data and expectations around employment records and they said and I quote from this this discussion about employment growth is so important but more needs to be done to get to the truth and I think that's the important point the truth because historically from 2010 to 2016 they were dealing with ONS data which was 2.3% annual growth to their own data which is 4.2% over six years that is a massive massive difference and the work which the planning team has done on this to respond to that recommendation from the SPIR report in terms of further investigation of those employment numbers is really important and it's important because and I quote again from what SPIR said is that growth can be a curse if it's not managed well that's exactly what they say so if we underestimate employment growth there are no prizes associated with that what comes with that is going to be really difficult environment and something which we will not have planned to manage so that search for the truth is really really important and I sort of welcome the additional evidence which has been collected there and the importance of it I just wanted to lastly a comment on just a personal reaction to the sort of Councillor Heather Williams comment about density and this is personal experience now the density is really such a it's a fairly blunt tool it's a very blunt tool actually I've lived in made avail which I believe is the most dense environment in the UK and it's a great place to live because a place is so much more than simply and I've also lived in a place called Streeterville in Chicago and the clue is in the name Streeterville which was also incredibly dense urban environment but was a great place to live to as well so I think that this these preferred options are about trying to create places which are much more than simply the density of the homes on them and again I think it is well laid out in the report and I'm sure there will be lots of good responses to the consultation so in summary I'm really pleased with this I think it's a great piece of work it's a really important piece of work and I will certainly be supporting it Thank you very much Councillor Hawkins Thank you leader Much has been said so I wouldn't want to take our time but what I want to leave you with is to say to the entire planning policy team that have been working on this a big thank you there is still a lot of work to do going forward and I know that many have been working long hours, silly hours just to get us to this point so a big thank you once again and scrutiny and the climate and environment action group thank you very much for the grilling I think it was a long evening but a good one and I will just appeal to our residents to please get engaged because we want to hear from you we have as we've heard a lot of growth happening and will continue to happen we have families who need space families are being created every day every week I mean I've got two kids they'll want to live somewhere not with me thank you very much and there are many more like that not to mention those who come to work in the the various new jobs that are created so we want to hear from you we need to hear from you we need to build together so looking forward to hearing from you thank you thank you very much indeed Councillor Hawkins so I would just like to add my thanks to you actually and to officers they have very pleased I am with the way the preferred options document looks so even though I know there are 10,000 pages sitting behind it and I'm sure a lot of wrinkles and grey hairs gone into it actually the chord document is beautifully presented and one of our first task when we came here was to get rid of what I called council speak and actually this is written in plain English it's very intelligible it's actually a pleasure to read and I'm not sure many people can ever say it's been a pleasure to read any document to do with a local plan but it's beautifully illustrated it's beautifully set out it uses beautiful language and it's a thoroughly accessible document and so I think it's a real exemplar and that's absolutely down to our officers and to Stephen and Toomey's leadership of this so my thanks to them and I look forward to more of the same so I'm not going to read all the recommendations there's various things to agree and note they're set out on page 40 of the papers that I've got on my computer here so do members agree with the proposals does anyone wish to vote against the proposal and does anyone wish to abstain so Cabinet therefore agrees the proposals by affirmation we very much look forward to encouraging our residents to participate in the consultation which I have every expectation will be as high quality as the original piece of engagement work we did and will reflect the high quality document and the brilliant work that's been done here so my thanks to everybody we've now reached the end of the agenda thank you ever so much for joining us today to view today's Cabinet meeting if you've done so online and I note the next meeting of the Cabinet is scheduled to take place on Tuesday the 19th of October 2021 at 10 o'clock so thank you very much everybody and if we could stop the live stream Lawrence please