 Hey, let's get started with our second talk. There's lots of outstanding trees and shrubs that can provide food and or beauty in small spaces of home landscapes. Here to highlight some strategies and some of the finest plants to use in small spaces is Dr. Todd West. Todd is a horticulture professor at North Dakota State University and he's the director of the Woody Plant Improvement Program. His famous program focuses on the development of new woody cultivars suited for hardening the zones three and four, which is us in North Dakota. And this program has released 60 ornamental woody plants to the nursery industry, many of which have been shown to be the heartiest selections of their type in the industry. Todd, welcome to the forums. Awesome, thank you so much. And I apologize for my voice. I'm coming off from a cold. So we're gonna talk about a tight fit and we wanna talk about adding some edibles and other some other space saving landscape plants. And what we're gonna do is we're gonna look at some tight fits. Now in North Dakota, we aren't necessarily having smaller yards, but that is the trend with new developments. A lot of us don't live in this type of environment, but this is what's really coming with the new construction. So we're getting smaller yards. So we have to have plants that fit into these tighter spaces. So what we're gonna talk about is some edible landscaping. This goes really well with the previous talk. And so I won't spend a lot of time on talking about containerized plants, but I do wanna hit a little bit onto that. And so we're gonna look at some herb gardens, some edibles as ornamentals, and then edibles complimenting ornamentals, also looking at a spilier, some container gardening, again, very briefly, and then look at some dwarf and upright woody ornamentals. So edible landscaping, people call it ediscaping, and it's the practical integration of food plants with an ornamental or decorative setting. A lot of edible plants have a really nice aesthetic ornamental component to them. Good design is essential and often overlooked. We don't want our landscape to look like a vegetable garden. So by integrating them correctly, they can actually be really nice. They can enhance by our gardens by having that unique ornamental component, but also allowing us to have a harvestable product. Remember filling the yard with edibles would often produce too much food for most families, but also it's a lot more work. And we're gonna talk about some of those aspects. Careful planning and the judicious use of fruits, herbs, and vegetables is a must. Careful use will result in a yard that's flavorful, practical, visually pleasing. And it's also a great topic for conversation. So this is a real quick pop quiz. Yeah, since we're talking about edibles, what's the average distance that food travels to US cities? 100, 500, 1500, 2500 miles. And again, I'm not gonna wait because we don't have a lot of time. 1500 miles is what's the average distance that our food travels to US cities. If a truck stopped in the US, or if trucking stopped in the US, how many days of food does the city have? And we're looking at like one, I had one to two days, three to four days, seven days, 30 days. And it really is that one to two days is what it takes for the food in the city to run out. So some edible landscaping challenges. Light conditions is pretty much the number one. When we're producing fruit, most plants need a lot of sunshine. Whenever we have that shade component, we're going to sacrifice the fruit if we don't have enough of that light. Also pests, that's a really big challenge for us here in North Dakota and everywhere, deer, rabbits, birds, they're gonna be going after those plants as a food source, whether it's the plant themselves or the fruit. So you covering the plant to protect ripening or mature fruits is not that aesthetically pleasing. So here you can see this picture. If you're growing cherries, bush cherries, you're gonna have to net them or just expect that the birds are gonna get their fair share as well. Growing requirements, right plant, right place, right reason. That's the keys to healthy plants or choosing the correct plant for that location. We've heard a lot about soil and also potting mixes, making sure that you're properly preparing that. With few exceptions, most edible plant varieties require soil with fast drainage. They don't like to be wet. And so if you're looking at adding in any type of tree fruits or shrub fruits, any woody type plants, you're gonna have to make sure they do not get flooded. Soggy soil is a culprit for many failed edible gardens. Annual fruits and veggies need soil filled with lots of organic matter and a source of nitrogen. Again, because you're expecting to produce that extra bit, whether it's a vegetable or that fruit. And again, light. We need at least six hours of midday sun to produce well and to be healthy. Water use, commercial production, produce production. Average pound of lettuce uses 15 gallons of water. Average pound of tomatoes, 22 gallons. Average pound of potatoes, 30 gallons. So there is a book, it's How to Grow More Vegetables, concluded that the home gardener using organic techniques, grow edibles, uses between one quarter and one eighth as much water. So that's one nice thing about adding edibles into our landscape to try to increase our own production is that we're gonna be having smarter use of our water resources. And we know that's a big issue across the entire US. One thing that we wanna look at is install and using rain barrels. And that also fits into our tight spaces. And here we have the, a kind of a real traditional looking kind of water barrel where we're harvesting from our roof. Here they're in tandem, they're tied together in sequence. This isn't really that attractive though. It's more of that a zombie apocalypse. Do we have enough water to make it through? But we can actually have some very attractive type of water collection devices. Here's two rain barrels. One on the right actually looks like an old fashioned barrel. The one on the left is also a rain barrel but it has a planter on the top so we can incorporate that container gardening that we just learned about previously. Then there's some even fancier ones. So here the one on the left, again has that top planter but the whole inside is a water collection barrel. Same thing on the right. You got that more of that Italian kind of Tuscany look where it looks like an old weathered pot. Again, having just the very top to be able to plant some annuals in or some edibles. And then having that water source. So you have that available for your edibles in your garden. Here again, just kind of showing how it works with these fancier type of water collection. Having that top basin that is gonna be for planting. Combining edibles and ornamentals, you wanna kind of be creative. For instance, try a cool season border of lettuces and spinach interplant with dwarf nasturtiums. All types of peppers are striking when combined with dwarf marigolds or even with some salvias. Shady areas, try a border of alpine strawberries and curly parsley under a hedge of currents. For dwarf fruit trees, try to plant them in geometric beds surrounded by the border of culinary herbs. So you kind of create a fancier herb garden or plant them along the driveway instead of using privates or junipers. Again, edible plant selection. You wanna look at what's the purpose? You know, what's your size? What do you have available? Looking at the form. What is it gonna grow up to be? Texture, like rhubarb is a great one. You're gonna have a very coarse texture though. It's similar to like what we see with some hostas. But then if you wanna look at asparagus, you know, asparagus is a wonderful ornamental as well. Having those really small, fine leaves adds a really nice fine texture. Color, we wanna look at color in our landscapes. Plants add color. You know, multi-hued flowers, showy fruit or vivid seasonal foliage. You know, the leaves and every hue and intensity of green. We're gonna talk about some plants that we can deal with that. Green becomes the neutral color against which you see all other colors. You know, we do need still need green in our landscapes. So here, you know, again, not a great picture, but and definitely not really space saving, but just showing kind of the textural differences. This is more of a, you know, larger edible garden. But some popular edibles that we wanna talk about. Edible flowers, greens, fruit, veggies. You know, I'm a big fan of rhubarb. You know, we live here in the North. Rhubarb is kind of a staple, you know, they even make rhubarb wine in the region. But it's a really nice focal point. Look at the picture here on the right. You can see where you've got that kind of elephant ear, hostage kind of look, but yet it's rhubarb. And so you can go in and still harvest, maintain a really nice looking plant, but it blends really well with the texture and the aesthetics. Again, this is actually in the Denver Botanic Art. They're using rhubarb that green as that backdrop. They have parsley and oregano that's blooming, provide bright green accents against the red of the flowering amaranth and rhubarb stalk. So by incorporating these edibles into a landscape, you know, it's very aesthetic, it's very pleasing, but very functional and completely edible. I'm also a big fan of Swiss chard. And having those really bright petioles and it goes up into the veins, into the leaves, you know, you get that really nice striking component. Again, very similar to rhubarb where you know, you can selectively harvest. You want to obviously cut the whole thing down, but you can selectively harvest and eat it. So there's several different types of cultivars. There's bright lights. That's kind of the standard. And there's many different colors. There's petioles can be white, yellow, gold, orange, pink, red, or striped. And you got 55 days to maturity. So obviously we want to get that going a little bit early. There is one also called rhubarb and then also neon lights where they're more intense colors than what the bright lights cultivar is. So here is just a garden with rhubarb Swiss chard. So that's that cultivar. And then putting in with some edible pansies. So the pansies themselves, you know, the flowers are edible. One thing to keep in mind is that when you're doing any type of edibles, just like a vegetable garden in your landscape, you want to make sure you control what you're putting down for insecticides and herbicides, because if you're eating the flowers, you don't want to be applying things that are going to cause harm. Strawberries, again, containerized gardening. We're not going to go into that. You know, here on the right, you get the buckets. They don't look very attractive, very functional for growing strawberries in smaller spaces. But, you know, on the left, it's a little bit more aesthetically pleasing. There's actually quite a few edible flowers out there. There's a borage, there's calendulas, chamomile, lavender. You know, you can use them in a lot of different ways. Nosturtium, I mentioned Nosturtium earlier. It's a really nice annual for ornamental. Adds a lot of splash of color. And even into some areas where you get a little bit more shade, but great in salads. So here you got this really nice ornamental look to it, fitting into a really nice little space. And you can plant that just about anywhere. Squash, you know, they talked about that gardening, the square foot gardening, you know, trellising it may be up, but you can also harvest the flowers as well. Here is typically what you would do. And you can fill it with, you know, a cheese, and I'm not gonna go into all the different ways you can prepare this, but then, you know, batter it, deep fry it. And you got a lemon ricotta stuffed zucchini blossom. So another way to prepare zucchinis, and maybe even a better way so you don't have a ton of zucchinis left over. Combination plantings, roses and chives. Garlic is said to repel rose pests. So it's neat to have these kind of companions. Garlic chives probably are just as repellent and they're small purple or white flowers in late spring look great with rose flowers in the foliage. Tomatoes and cabbage. Tomatoes are repellent to diamondback moth larvae, which are caterpillars that chew large holes in the cabbage leaves. Cucumbers and nasturtiums. Nasturtium binding stems make them a great companion rambling along your cucumbers. They are reputed to repel cucumber beetles and provide habitat for predatory insects such as spiders and ground beetles. So having these companion plants, you know, fitting more into those tighter spaces. Lettuce and tall flowers. Having, you know, cliome giving some shade to your lettuce so it doesn't burn. Potatoes and sweet allysum. Tiny flowers that attract delicate beneficial insects such as predatory wasps. Also adding fragrance as well. That's one thing we haven't really mentioned. Herb gardens. We talked a little bit about that already, but you know, you can fit the small herbs in a lot of different places, whether it's like a little rock garden or a container. Again, I'm not gonna spend time on containers because again, we just heard about that, but you know, any combination to be able to really fit a lot more plants into tighter spaces. I like the picture here on the left where they have kind of like containers in containers. Again, this is that kind of strawberry plant planter, you could use this for herbs as well. Plant choices, what will you use? You know, there's a lot of different herbs, but then we can also get more ornamental. You know, so instead of using a standard basil that is just green, why don't we go with one that has purple leaves? Same thing with sage, you know, you can get a variegated sage. Chocolate mint. So it's not just standard green, but we have that little bit of that darker stem color to it as well. Pineapple mint has that variegation, so it's adding a little bit more splash color into our gardens. Now we're finally kind of getting into some woody stuff, but I'm a big fan of a spillier. This is where you can really fit plants into some tight spaces, adds a really neat aesthetic component, and also a really neat conversation piece. Here is how you can actually, you can actually buy them pre-made. This is where they would actually be produced in the nursery and getting those arms to be trained. There's different types of a spillier, and depending again on the type of fruit, on the right, having the horizontal cordons or the arms is typical for apples and pears. If you're doing plums and apricots, you wanna have more of a fan style, and that's all because of the branch angles and what the plant can handle. You know, you can get into arbors, you can do candelabras. Candelabra style is very common, what you see like in France, again, using more of an apple and pears. Cocktail trees can really fit into a landscape much better. Here on the left, you know, picture from like 1950s, but you know, you can graph five different types of apples onto one tree, and then even having different blossoms. Here's just a crab apple with, you know, three different colors. Here is actually similar to what I did with my apple trees as having each layer or each level be a different cultivar of apple. And so you get what they consider to be a cocktail tree. There's now a lot of columnar apple trees that are available. So instead of them growing as wide as they are tall, they stay very narrow, and as you can see here on the right. So not all of them have been tested for zone four and zone three, so we gotta be a little bit careful, but there definitely is a nice added component with these columnar types of fruit. I'm not gonna get into the types of fruit, but I just want that to be there. Again, NDSU extension and what Tom called his done, you know, great resources. Here, I'm a big fan of black ice plum, and I actually made my black ice into a palm fan type of espilier. Also, I did a Juanita as well. I had to fight my kids for the plums. But then getting into some other fruits, you know, like honeyberry, you know, it makes a really nice looking shrub. And, you know, cold hardy, it does need a cross, you know, does need a pollinator for pollination, but you hear you get to have the fruit. Now, as you can see in this picture on the left, is that there is potential that you're going to have to net them or just realize that animals will be able to get to them and may get more than what you would like them to get. Juneberry, or in the ornamental world, we call it serviceberry. And this is one that is used in the ornamental world quite extensively for a nice shrub, but it also then produces a beautiful fruit as well. It's a nice blueberry substitute for us here in the North because of the hardiness issues, but also more importantly, it's pH tolerant. Blueberry is not. And so this is one where we get an ornamental, but we also get an edible out of it. And again, netting may be necessary because the birds are going to love to take it from you. Chokeberry, or is what the industry is trying to call it now, is just straight eronia, eronia melanocarpa. There's quite a few cultivars out there. I'm a big fan of eronia and it's becoming more common in the landscape. Produces a really nice white flower and outstanding fall color, but it also will produce a nice fruit. Now, it does say chokeberry, so it's not, you're not going to make a chokeberry pie, but it's really great for mixing into with other fruits for making smoothies or jams, really high in antioxidants. It's really healthy for you and they're actually a little bit sweeter after first frost, but again, sweetness and chokeberry or eronia is very relative, but beautiful plant. I know it on the NDSU campus, this is being used a lot more in landscaping. There's a lot of different cultivars, so fitting into smaller spaces, there's what's called low scape mound, very compact, very small, very nice. I don't have a fall color picture here, but it's outstanding fall color. There's low scape hedger, so this is about a three to five foot. It doesn't sucker and just great for a nice little hedge, as the name says. And so again, it will produce all the fruit which are really high in antioxidants. The shrub cherries that came out of Canada are absolutely fabulous. I've planted quite a few of them. I've got Crimson Passion for sure. Says that they will produce about 20 pounds after six years and this is dead on. I get so many of these nice small cherries that and it makes some of the best jam. I've had, everyone has told me about my jam, it's just fabulous. So highly recommend them. I've got them planted as a hedge, right on the edge of my garden, so they get plenty of light and they're that transition from the ornamental because they produce the flowers, which are really nice and the red fruit really is nice and bright, but I actually, I do net them because I want more of them and I don't want the birds to get to them. Elderberry as well. Elderberry is known for its uses on ornamental, but it's also used quite a bit in for medicinal and also can be used for food. Again, the fruit can be produced wine and also some juice and jams. There are some tighter here of the European type with the purple. I haven't more of a tighter upright. I'm a big fan of Elderberry. I grew up in Wisconsin and my grandparents always made Elderberry fritters every spring when the flowers were ripe and just absolutely love them. Hazelnuts, there's some really nice hazelnuts out there now. This one is from Bailey's, has a really nice purple green foliage during the growing season and a beautiful burgundy fall color and then you get the edible nuts as well. So instead of having just a regular shrub, I highly recommend putting in a hazelnut because then you actually get a nice product out of them after the growing season. Some other space-saving ideas, hanging planters. I don't know, I'm not really fond of these. They look personally and I won't even comment. The hanging bags as well, raised beds. We've already heard about raised beds, but trellis gardens. This is a great way to be able to utilize kind of your espiliers to give them a place to be able to develop. This picture is showing more of that fan types. This would be great for your plums and apricots instead of having the straight across horizontal arms that you would have like with your apple, but it gives you the structure. It gives you that break between your yard and somebody else's yard. Also maybe a windbreak, but a privacy screen, but also a structure for your plants to be able to actually be trained upon. And then some just real basic trellis. It's like if you wanted to grow up your zucchinis for harvesting your flowers or whatever, or maybe your watermelon, but just giving that vertical upright, because we don't use the upright much. We always think of the horizontal, but not the up. Gazebos are pretty common. You can see these are a void of life. Why not use them? Get some grapes, get some different plants that we can put them on. You can use just wired trellis in different areas. Here, now, this is not one that is edible, so this is actually poisonous, but if you have a gazebo, why not train some wisteria up to it? Take advantage of that structure and this vine wants to have that structure so you can fit some really beautiful plants in some tighter spaces. Same thing, you know, climates. We know that it's a climber, and so if you provide any type of structure, whether it's the light pole on the left or having some type of trellis there on the right, will really work well. You know, honeysuckle, you know, again, people have their love-hate relationship with honeysuckle, but again, having a really nice plant that can fit into a tighter spot. I already mentioned grapes, you know, you can have your own grapes and have it on any type of trellis structure, whether it's just a single kind of trellis, but here, you know, having more of this kind of a gazebo-pergola kind of look and having the grapes just hang down. When it comes to some ornamentals, there's a lot of work on plants trying to get to be tighter and upright. You know, one from NDSU is the Dakota Pinnacle. I think many of you are probably familiar with the Parkland Pillar, which is a tighter version of the Dakota Pinnacle. So being able to fit plants into tighter spaces, I've seen this planted quite a bit around Fargo. It makes really nice screen, but it doesn't, you know, consume your yard then, which is really nice. You know, arborvite, we know, are very susceptible to deer damage, even some rabbit, but they give that nice vertical accent. But instead of using arborvite, I always suggest using Taylor Juniper. Now, Taylor Juniper is a really nice type upright. This is actually a photo from ours out at the NDSU Research Arboretum near Absaraka, but it has that same kind of form, 25 foot by four foot, it's deer resistant, but it's not drought tolerant. Well, no, this one's drought tolerant, whether it's arborvite or not. And so we actually suffered and lost a lot of our arborvite when we went through drought, but this one actually can handle that, but so it can't handle wet. So you have very different growing environments. That's that right plate, right plant, you know, right reason. Fineline buckthorn, you know, this is one that is kind of that asparagus kind of look, but it's a very tight plant that fits into spaces that you normally wouldn't be able to necessarily get a plant into. It doesn't get wild, it doesn't sucker. And it's not invasive, you know, we think of buckthorn as this really invasive plant, which, you know, normal common buckthorn is, this one is not, and it adds a really neat texture and adds a nice form. We mentioned the edible apples, having these columnar uprights, there's a lot of crab apples now that are available that are also uprights. So being able to fit these plants into areas that again, you normally just wouldn't have the space. This one has the purple, it's called purple spire, it has more of that purple foliage during the summer, but you know, we'll have a beautiful spring bloom as well. And then just looking at some smaller trees in general, Northern Empress, this is one NDSU release, it's a smaller statured elm, because people think of elms as being these big monsters, which they can. This one's gonna be in about that 30 foot range. So it's a better fit for a yard and it won't be overwhelming, but still get a beautiful fall color. This is another NDSU plant, cinnamon curls, and this one is a dwarf birch. So it gets to be about nine foot by about nine foot, but a nice little specimen tree, again, something that won't be so overwhelming, not a 30, 40 foot tree that's gonna take up an entire yard. Same thing with buckeye. Now again, buckeye is not edible and actually poisonous fruit. So you gotta be careful with that, but buckeyes typically get pretty wide and they don't really fit well into a landscape. Here, you've got this one that's an upright and so fits much better into a landscape. So we gotta really think about what do we have for a space? What are we trying to accomplish? What are we trying to do? But there's a lot of great plants that we can incorporate in that are edibles that can replace kind of standard shrubs. So we get that extra benefit of fruit, whether it's a berry or a nut, but still get good fall color as well and then have that texture and aesthetics during the growing season. So lots of great plants that we can play with. So that is my quick little dive into tight spaces and what we can do to hopefully kind of make things a little bit nicer and add some edibles as well. That was a great time, lots of great information there. So we invite people's questions. Here we go, Todd. You said you love rhubarb here. So when you get a division off somebody's rhubarb, a mature rhubarb plant, how soon can you harvest from the new division? Well, I am not a rhubarb expert. I think once you get it established, I think, I don't know, personally, I would wait at least probably one year to let it establish on its own. Yeah, I agree with that. Gotta wait at least a year. Then we just take a little bit to second here. How about, do you know of a flower that opens only at night? Oh, there is one. Goodness, I can't think of the name of it. How about moonflowers open at night? Yeah. There you go. And but it's dark outside, you can't see it. Yeah, because my neighbor had one of those. And the same thing, it's like, here we're all standing around in the dark waiting. It's like, this isn't really that enjoyable as the mosquitoes are eating you alive. That's right. You got it. How about you showed pictures of strawberries growing in a plant or how successful can you be overwintering those plants? So the same thing that was mentioned if you were attending earlier, anytime you have a plant that you're trying to overwinter, the most susceptible part is going to be that root structure. And when we have a container, we just don't have enough buffer. So you'd have to protect it, whether it's mulching, bring it into a garage or a shed, but you're going to then have to deal with pest issues. So it can be quite a quite a challenge. So maybe just consider it as almost as an annual, you could use like the day control or the ever bearing types. How about, you know, you showed some photos of those herbs all mixed around, even with that beautiful, luscious green rhubarb. So if you plant chives and oregano next to rhubarb, are you going to have an off tasting rhubarb? You know, it's a good question. I wouldn't expect that you'd have an off tasting rhubarb. You know, they're going to stay pretty true with what they are. Is it choked berry the same as a choked cherry? No, they are different. So choked cherry is a prunus. So it's an actual true cherry, whereas choked berry is aronia. And that's why they're trying to get away from that choked berry name. But but choked berry really has a true name. And it's not a very nice, flavorful fruit, but it's really healthy. There you go. So this person's never heard of espalier trees before. So can most trees be trained to espalier most fruit trees? Yeah, pretty much any fruit tree can. Again, when you're dealing with more of the stone fruits, you want to be like the plums and apricots. You want to be more into that fan shape, whereas your apples and pears, the the then you want to have more of that horizontal branching. But if you've never experienced espalier, that's a great Google activity. And, you know, maybe in the future, we can I can do a talk just on espalier. That's for sophisticated gardeners, I think. You know, Todd, you showed pictures of some beautiful wisteria. Is it hardy here? Or do you have specific cultivars you would recommend? That bad Betty Matthews. And then there's also the summer cascade. They they both are pretty hardy. They do really well. How about this person has a question about red cedar being? Is it more tolerant to winter injury than the white cedar in the Arbivite? Yeah, yeah, I would say probably, yes. You know, how about what size of that buckeye plant that you showed? So lava burst, and that's one that's becoming available. It's really about in that 20 foot, you know, 20 foot by about 12 foot. OK. How about have you ever grown a goji berry or a mulberry or a hardy kiwi or hops? You know, hops does well. You know, we have hops on the NDSU campus and Dr. Hadriman Blente has done a lot of research at NDSU with hops. I have never done a goji berry. I think that would be really cool. I have not done hardy kiwi here. I used to have hardy kiwi and actually in my previous home, this is back in West Virginia, so it was a lot warmer. But I actually had hardy kiwi growing and I trained it through my chain link fence. And so it made a green fence. So what was the other one? Mulberry, hardy. Now, mulberry, that's the thing. If you really don't like people, plant a mulberry because when the birds eat it, they'll poop on your like your neighbor's car and like totally take the finish off the car. But mulberries are wonderful. I love mulberry jam. I love mulberry syrup and mulberry is is hardy here. OK. It was the dwarf Korean birch need more water than other trees. So the cinnamon curls, that is available now. I've seen it now like here in Fargo, several garden centers have had it available. So it's through Isley. It actually is more drought tolerant because it's very similar. Oh, well, it's it's in the same kind of grouping as river birch, which you think would need more water, but it actually is shown to be very drought tolerant. How about have you ever grown winter berry? Winter berry that it's kind of depends which winter berry. Is it for the salada? Yeah, I like for silly for silly or for to silly out of that one actually does really well. One that I would not recommend eating the fruit. There is also a euonymus that's also a winter berry as well. And both are actually hardy. How about is there a difference in rhubarb cultivars? This person wants an upright, thin one. Oh, I don't know. I don't know of anyone. Yeah, I don't think it's not rhubarb. You're you're a very sophisticated person, Todd. Most people don't grow rhubarb for the ornamental beauty. But but it's pretty. I support you. How about Dakota Pinnacle and Parkland Pillar? Are they bronze birch bore resistant? They are not completely. So if they get stressed, they will get bronze birch bore. They have a little bit more tolerance because they're supposed to be a little bit more drought tolerant, but they're not resistant by any means. So if you're going into drought, make sure you do proper watering. This person grows a mountain ash tree. Do you know of a mountain ash variety that the birds won't eat the fruits from? No. Yeah, very cool. Are there dwarf conifers like mugo pine that do well here? Oh, yeah. And I didn't talk about any of the dwarf conifers. I think I had a talk several years ago or something on dwarf conifers. So we'd have to go back to the archives for that. But yeah, the lot, all the dwarf conifers do extremely well, whether it's the mugos, they do extremely well. There's all the dwarf Colorado spruces. They do really well. The one to to really avoid, though, is the white spruce. And you mentioned that the archives, all of the Spring Fever Garden forums are recorded and they're archived on our website. So you can see Todd's presentation from five years ago. It's there. There you go. You can just binge Todd West one night. Oh, yeah, I would not recommend that. How about Hardy Hazelnut? Is that Hardy to Zone 3? You know, it depending on the one, I know there is hazelnuts growing very successfully up in Botno. OK, how about our San cherries? Hardy, San cherries are Hardy. Again, making sure you get the right one. Yeah, they were they were developed from the Northern Great Plains. They're tough as nails. How about does the cinnamon curls, dwarf Korean birch turn a reddish color in the fall? It does not. It's a beautiful gold, like a typical birch. Have you ever grown that chocolate mint? Actually, I have. You know, does it does it really taste like thin mints? Well, I guess you know. You're really fooling yourself. It's one of those where, you know, it's like having a blue flower in the horticulture. Is it really blue? No. There you go. But now that's a chocolate mint. Yes, there's not chocolate basil. No. Is there a chocolate basil? No, I'm not sure. No, there's all kinds of there's lemon basil. Yeah, there's a million basil, cinnamon basil, holy basil. Yeah, Genovese basil. But I don't think there's chocolate basil. There's a chocolate. But that chocolate mint is amazing, though. That really freaks freaks all kids. They love that stuff. Exactly. Oh, this person says there is a chocolate basil. So we have we have an argument going on here. All right. Where can you get a chocolate mint? You should be able to get it, you know, seed for your own. Or at a garden center, it's it's not, you know, it's not a rare, rare plant. I agree. I see those. Those all those mints that you showed, Todd. Yeah, pretty ample man's there. If you go to a major garden center, they'll have a collection available for you. Is there a smaller willow tree available? And if there is, how far should you plant it away from a home? You want to make sure that you do plant it away from any kind of water source, if you've got a septic or any type of your drains. There is a smaller willow, prairie reflection through NDSU. It's going to be in that kind of 25 foot range. But it doesn't have that weeping effect. But it's got beautiful, glossy leaves. Beautiful stands out for that. How about let's see if there's anything in the chat box here for you. I think we got it covered. Todd, that was excellent. I really appreciate your presentation. Yeah, thank you for having me.