 didn't have the support for the second amendment we've had, that a lot of the press wouldn't have the first amendment then. And maybe they would use the first amendment more than we have the second. That's possible. I think that we had some mutual friends, being Crosby and Phil Harris and Andy Devine. Oh, good Lord, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, one of the things I wanted to ask you is, a boy's first gun is kind of special to me. And this is something that we talk about around the campfire. I'm just wondering if you would share with our readers your first gun, what your impression was. Yes, I can very easily. I don't know when or how my love for them ever began. I was, I liked guns. I was never allowed to have one and it dated back to a time before my birth when my father, who had been out hunting, came in the kitchen and my mother just for fun picked, he'd left his gun standing in the corner of the kitchen, picked up the gun and said, money or your life. And he very quietly said, Nellie, put the gun down. And she was laughing and said, well, you know, he's loaded. And he knew that he had carelessly put the gun down without unloading it. And he just kept saying, he didn't tell her that. He just kept saying Nellie, put the gun down. And she pointed to the floor and pulled the trigger. And then he had to revive her and fix the whole floor of the kitchen. So there were no guns in our house. But for 70 years during high school and college, I was a lifeguard at a natural forest park, Lowell Park, Dixon, Illinois. And it's, they had to get a state law change to have that. It's the James Russell Lowell family gave this park to the city. It's outside the city limits by a few miles. And it had to be, and especially long order to have a city park out in the country. And the condition was that it would always be preserved in its natural state other than the necessary facilities for like having a beach and so forth. And they've kept it and it's widely known in that area. But one of those years, and I have to be honest with you, I can't remember one. I think it was while I was still in high school, I'm sure it was. They decided to have an annual big Labor Day, which was about usually the last day of the summer for everything. Big water carnival, boat races and swimming races and diving events and everything else. And one of the big features was across the River Swin, starting on the other side, running in the water, swimming across and landing at the beach. And the river was about 200 yards wide there. And I wanted to be in that one single event. And we solved the lifeguarding problem by my retiring as lifeguard that afternoon. And I won across the river thing. And the prizes were things donated by merchants and so forth. And one of the reasons for wanting to be in that was the prize was a bold action, 22 rifle. Yes, that right. And I won that rifle. And I guess by that time, my father relented and I was able to have my rifle. You kept it? Yes. What did you use it for? Well, actually, plinking, but because there was much opportunity to do anything else, except at one occasion when another fell on myself and decided and this was in the winter and the river hadn't frozen over yet that we were going to try our hand at self-sustaining camping and we're going to canoe up the river. And oh boy, a day we were going to do it in, turned freezing cold and we were paddling at the river and there was a point we'd picked out across from Lowell Park where we were going to see if we couldn't get some squirrels and that was going to be our dinner that night. And that's confidence. Yeah, we would. I was the only one who had the confidence I found out, fortunately. And we finally, the snow falling, the real blizzard and all, we got to where we were going to camp. But we got some squirrels and I got my first squirrel with my rifle. And we got there and it was a place called Lost Nations and quite a wilderness area, but there were people that had cabins in this place, summer cabins. And we got permission from the caretaker of this whole area. He opened one of the cabins for us and we slept in front of the fireplace with a fire going in this summer cabin. And it was then that squirrels frozen stiff by that time. And then that my more experienced companion went down in his duffel bag and came out with a quart fruit jar which his mother had given him filled with stew. And we warmed the stew over the fireplace. We're very grateful for it. And the next day we had to turn around and cancel our trip and start down river because we had to break ice to get the canoes back out into the river. But that was my only real, then with that gun that was my only real experience. But just having it was enough for me. That makes a difference. Yeah. I still have the first 22 rifle I had and my three children began they shooting with it. So I kind of hung on to that. But I'll tell you what I did with mine because it was a single shot. And what I did with mine was years later I had the butt cut down so that I could teach my son as a small boy. I always felt two things with your kids that rather than hoping you can keep the guns away from them you teach them about it. Teach them about them as early as possible and that and swimming. That instead of don't go near the water having been a lifeguard I taught them at an age when I they literally had to be thrown in. I didn't do that though I never believed in that. Throw them in and they don't automatically swim. I taught them. And so I cut it down now. I don't know what has happened. I think I gave it to someone then after he grew up someone who wanted to do the same thing with the child. And I gave it to a friend. You still enjoy painting? Oh yes. Yeah. I've never been or had an awful lot of opportunity on it. I've had to go for rodents particularly in California. There's a rancher when you know there the ground squirrel is is on the list of something to be eliminated. The state will send people to eliminate them because of the bubonic plague then which they seem to be the be the carriers. Yes that's right. There are millions out there. But my number of guns has grown. Has it? Yes. One of the questions I submitted in the writing has to do with that so we're going to find out some about that later on. All right. Yes. And since some people have heard about that but I like them I've had people give me things like presentation pieces and so forth. You've got some beautiful guns. Beautiful rifles. I have a gun that Mr. Weatherby will forgive me for this but it has to be the slowest shooting gun in the world. A weatherby bold action that my wife got me as a birthday present. I happen to shoot left-handed. Why? So she had a left-handed bold action made for me. Now it isn't the fault of the gun. It's my fault that this is a slow shooting gun because when I go for the bolt I find myself first reaching over here. You've got to say you used to right hand. Yes. Yes. Using over and doing this and then after I fumble around I have to come back over here and it's an entirely foreign feeling for me to raise the bolt and pull it back this way. I'm so used to doing this way. I have to tell you all about that. I have a couple of beautiful weatherbeasts. They're beautiful guns. Yes. If you ever want to go duck hunting or anything else let me know. We've got some great hunting in Louisiana. Well, I'd have to bring my shotgun. I've got a shotgun. It was Bob Taylor's and you know we were very close friends and after his death his widow gave me this particular gun. It's by that well maybe there's more than one but I'd only heard it as one of the very famous Belgian gun makers. Yes, right and he's a leech Belgian right. Yeah. It's a .20 caliber. I knew Bob. .20 gauge I should say. He was a wonderful person. Yes and he was a great hunter. Yes he was. I made one trip around the world with a shooting team. I got to know him pretty well on that. Well. He's a and he used to hunt ducks in Louisiana with a friend of mine a lot. Well, this is a thrust of this piece that I'm doing is really trying to get some exposure on prominent people who are pro-gun and pro-hunting because there are a lot of presidents, a lot of governors and to try to dispel some of the idea that just because you like to hunt or you like to own guns that you're a wild-eyed fanatic. Well yes because the thing is if you look at well first of all is my understanding that there are more deer in the United States than there were back when Washington was at Valley Forge. Far more. And most of these rules such as the the duck stands for the gun hunters, the preservation using that for wetlands preservation, it is the hunters with an interest in preserving their sport that are responsible for most of the laws that have preserved the game animals in this country. And so much so for them and for what they've they've done and most people don't recognize that. They certainly don't and that's one of the problems how do we get this across to people that this is true? Teddy Roosevelt was a great hunter but also one of the great conservationists of all that. And the other thing about the right of the honest citizen to have guns I still say in California when I was governor we did the right thing about supposed gun control and that is an individual committing a crime convicted of a crime. If he had a gun in his possession when he committed the crime whether he used it or not it had five to fifteen years to the prison sentence and they have now increased that also they've added to that since I left mandatory prison sentence if carrying a gun that you can't just put them on probation in their conviction. That was effective too wasn't it? Yes it was. There was an immediate drop in armed robbery and then that kind of crime. I not only believe in that but I remember an incident when I was in sports announcing in Des Moines, Iowa and a friend, a widow of a man bit in the military gave me his 1911 automatic, 45 automatic and I had an apartment right on the street and next door to a hospital and across the street a nurse's home and I was on the second floor and I was lying there half asleep and I heard voices and I was not paying much to anyone on the street down below and it wasn't common to hear that except that there was something about the tone and I found myself saying what if you know what if I were a witness something had happened what would I say I had heard and just about that time I heard her voice say take anything but leave me alone and I went to the window and right beneath my window was this gal with her arms in the air and suitcase sitting down there and this fellow with a gun on her she was a nurse coming back from a case and I got my 45 and I stood back I'm up there in the dark window and put that 45 around and down and I said drop it and get going and he pulled around with the gun and so he could have seen anybody but he saw that 45 point and all of a sudden he just turned and ran he didn't drop the gun he just turned and ran and I told her I said wait a minute I put on a robe and I went down I didn't tell her that I didn't have any ammunition for the gun but he didn't know that and I took her over to the hospital and back with it as president I hate to interrupt you but you've got a couple of appointments stacking up yeah all right I know I have well listen again certainly with your speech appreciate you seeing and again thank you for everything you've done for us it's great if I can be of help any other any other time with anything my background is resource management I'd be delighted to help thank you very much I want to give you a copy of our magazine poop yes I've many times I've seen that my wife took the cover pictures so thank you very much all right thank you