 world including from Switzerland, Australia and Belgium. It's hard to keep track at the moment of all the parliamentarians that have signed in but it's a truly international symposium. And today's symposium came out of the discussion that we've been having in a cross-party group of members of parliament that has been meeting regularly in the British parliaments because we in Britain have, I would say, a special responsibility to speak out given that Julian Assange is held in a British high-security prison given that it is UK authorities that may extradite Julian Assange to the United States where he faces 170 years in prison in a US super max prison. But we also believed that we need to make this a global cause of justice for parliamentarians across the globe because this is, as you all know, a case that has huge global significance. Huge significance for extradition treaties all over the world between the United States and other countries which are often so one-sided that they allow the US to effectively list what happens in countries across the world. But this case also has huge significance for the right of freedom of expression worldwide because we should never forget that Julian Assange is being punished for no other reason than his journalistic work and exposure of war crimes for providing a service to humanity for lifting the lid on human rights abuses and war crimes done by the United States in Iraq, Afghanistan, Guantanamo Bay and often done with the support of governments all across the world. So given the global nature of this case we need to build a movement of parliamentarians across the world speaking out and calling on the Biden administration to drop the prosecution against Julian Assange. There have been some welcome shifts by the Biden administration away from the era of Trump on issues such as climate change and we need to ensure that there is a shift on this issue too. So today we've got three sessions. This first session is one in which we will listen to two very important guests who will update us on this case. The first guest is the United Nations special rapporteur on torture Niels Melzer and then we will hear from Stella Morris, Julian Assange's partner. In the second session we will hear from parliamentarians from across the world including from Australia and I encourage parliamentarians from each country represented here today to speak in that second session. And then finally we will look at the next steps that politicians can be taking with opening remarks from the former Nobel Prize winner Adolfo Perez Esquivel and the German member of parliament Sevin Dagdalen and we'll be wrapping up by 3pm London time. So with those introductory remarks over it gives me great pleasure to hand over to our first speaker Niels. Thank you very much Richard. Is the audio okay? Can you hear me? Okay wonderful. Well thank you very much for having me for this you know giving me the opportunity to speak to this important audience. I think you formulated it really correctly that this is an extremely important issue that is of great importance far beyond the person of Julian Assange. I think this case has although obviously every case like this has a personal aspect and I'm sure that you know also Stella Morris afterwards will speak to that as well but I think we all have to be to try to focus on the overall importance of this case. Myself I was contacted by Julian Assange's lawyers in December 2018 he was still at the Ecuadorian embassy and they asked me to intervene on his behalf and said that his living conditions at the embassy amounted to cruel and grave treatment and I had this visceral reaction of I'm not going to be manipulated by this narcissist and rapist and hacker and so on and to my shame I didn't know anything about this case but somehow I emotionally felt I knew everything about Julian Assange and I'm telling you this because it led me to not get engaged in the case for three months until his lawyers came back and said we have rumors that his expulsion from the embassy is imminent could you please look into the case and they sent me some some medical expertise and opinions of independent medical experts had visited him and some other materials and only once I started to look in those pieces of evidence I realized that there really wasn't any facts to back up this narrative that I had had in my own mind so I'm telling you all of this because I think that's the most important obstacle to having a clear 2020 vision even before 2021 this year on this on this case is that we're always looking at Julian Assange and because most of us don't know him personally we're looking at a persona that has been created of him or for him or in his place mainly in various media platforms and so on over the last 10 years and I can assure you I've investigated this case for two years there is nothing to back up this this narrative so I obviously I could speak here in very much detail to all aspects of the investigation but I propose that I will then answer two questions if people want to know more specifically about specific aspects but I'd like to focus on the state side of this because we're talking about a prosecution and when someone is being prosecuted we always look at the person we're not looking at the prosecuting side and I'm arguing that what's being done here is a prosecution that is not pursuing law and justice but is pursuing political purposes and therefore it is a prosecution it is not a prosecution and all of this hinges on the good faith of the prosecuting states and here I'm talking not only about the the US and also speaking of the UK and speaking of Sweden and speaking of Ecuador and in all of those four cases states in every single proceeding that had been led against Julian Assange or involving him his procedural rights I can assert that as an international lawyer have been systematically violated in each stage of each proceeding in each jurisdiction and we're talking about a person as we know who's exposed evidence for war crimes none of these crimes has ever been prosecuted already that disproves the good faith of those authorities because clearly those war crimes are much more serious than what Julian Assange could ever conceivably have been committed none of this is being prosecuted but he is being persecuted he's not even a whistleblower who's had a duty of of allegiance or of secrecy he's a publicist a journalist who has published evidence for serious crimes that we can see as I said in the Swedish proceedings clear violations of his procedural rights I can speak to that in detail if you'd like Ecuador has expelled him from the embassy without any new process has taken his state his statehood away his my statehood his citizenship away without a new process in the UK proceeding unfortunately to my shock and I'm a professor at the British University myself I could see how his rights have been systematically violated in the US during Assange would not expect a fair trial either the good faith of those states is also disproven by the way in which they engage with my mandate I'm mandated by states to report two states about their compliance with their obligations under the convention against torture and when I reported to those four states that I had identified serious violations of human rights law in this case and that I asked for an investigation and for them to cooperate with my investigation they refused to engage in a constructive dialogue all together and even my follow-up letters my reports to the General Assembly in New York my reports to the Human Rights Council in Geneva nothing was able to achieve a conduct by these states that would have been compliant with their human rights obligations I'm not saying that they needed necessarily to agree with my findings that Julie Massange had been exposed to psychological torture but by treaty law they're obliged to conduct a prompt and impartial investigation under the convention against torture as soon as they have reasonable evidence to to believe that the act of torture could have been committed and for that it is sufficient that my mandate makes those transmits those allegations I didn't take those allegations somewhere from the press or obscure sources I actually wanted to avoid any kind of politicization and went to visit Julie Massange in prison in May 2019 just after his arrest together with two very experienced experts medical experts specialized in examining victims of torture and they have worked in this for about 30 years they have examined victims in the Balkan wars and the Middle East I mean they they have no reason to seek publicity you will have noticed in the last two years they have never appeared in the press so they're not you know scandal seeking kind of people they're very experienced independent medical experts both of them and myself we all came to the conclusion that Julie Massange showed the symptoms that are typical for victims of psychological torture and here we're talking about ill treatment that is comparable to a type of mobbing that we would know from our private lives or you know that everyone would be familiar with it's a very common method of psychological torture because it doesn't leave physical traces but is extremely destructive to the human mind and emotional stability in the long term and it it has several components it always includes a form of isolation social isolation or physical isolation in Julie Massange's case we progressively have both of those aspects then there is a threat scenario that is there that something bad could happen any moment and and here we have the extradition to the US and and all human rights organizations agree that conditions of detention for political detainees or let's say national security detainees in the US amount to inhumane and cruel treatment and and so we have the isolation of the threat scenario we have the constant arbitrariness of official behavior and here we're talking to his constant violations of his procedural rights he doesn't get access to his lawyers he doesn't get access to his very basic rights as a defendant just to prepare his his defense he doesn't get access to his legal files and and and and so on top of this we have this campaign of defamation where he is constantly being humiliated humiliated and ridiculed but he can't answer to those accusations in a way that protects his human rights all of these elements you will find in a mobbing context and we know that mobbing can lead people to commit suicide it's a very serious form of abuse although it doesn't leave immediate physical traces so all of this i reported to those states and and it has been confirmed by other independent medical doctors we've had hundreds of doctors intervening internationally with the british government we've had the european parliament passing resolutions we've had the international bar association protesting officially against uh the uh the the unfair trial that jeweler nasant is getting we've had interamnist international speaking out against his extradition even new york times the guardian who have been critical to some aspects of wikileaks work in in the past have very clearly spoken out against the unjust treatment of of jeweler nasant the working group on arbitrary attention detention of the united nations years ago has decided that his confinement in the embassy is arbitrary i have investigated this case i have no personal stakes in this case and i was even biased i admitted to my shame biased against jeweler nasant in the beginning but when once i looked at the fact it was clear that this is not a prosecution it is a persecution now let us not and i will close on this last aspect um let us not be misled by the seemingly positive uh result of the uh the judgment of fourth of january which refuses extradition based on medical grounds it's a it's a slightly or even a strongly misleading judgment because first the judgment goes all the way to confirm the u.s. uh indictment for espionage which basically sets this precedent case that uh what julian nasant has done which is investigative journalism is a crime under the espionage and not only that but also under the british official secrets act so it also really concerns every single british citizen they could be criminalized for exposing dirty secrets if you allow me that term of the government and and so they confirmed that narrative they contrary to the will of british parliament they the judge said that the the exception for political offenses as so the prohibition of extradition for political offenses did not apply although it is expressly in the treaty between the uk and the us um and and so they confirmed this whole precedent case and in the end didn't extradite him not yet at least for medical reasons because the prison conditions in the u.s. would be oppressive to uh in view of the mental health of julian nasant now that's a a little bit of a trap because in the appeals case now obviously the only question the u.s. will appeal is that precise question on whether they are the conditions of detention are inhumane and whether they're uh acceptable to uh to to julian nasant and so now here they can make diplomatic assurances with regard to those conditions and thereby remove that obstacle fairly easily and the whole appeals proceeding has now been reduced to that discussion we're no longer discussing political offense we're no longer discussing press freedom we're no longer discussing war crimes we're only discussing those assurances and they can easily be given by the us and afterwards as we know those assurances are not always respected in practice so i think it's more of a maneuver to reduce and focus the appeals proceeding to something that's beneficial to the us then that this is really about a an expression of of consideration of humanity on behalf of of julian nasant and i can even prove that with a a final point if the judge considers that solitary confinement in the u.s. is inhumane and oppressive and would lead uh julian nasant to commit suicide then why does she send julian nasant back to solitary confinement in the u.k. where there is no need and no uh no legal basis to keep him in solitary confinement he's not serving a sentence he is only being kept uh there in confinement to assure his presence in case he should be extradited so it's a preventative detention so he doesn't escape but you don't need solitary confinement in belmarsh for that where lawyers don't have access family doesn't have access where he can't exercise his profession he should be now in a house arrest context such as has been given to august opinochet when he was in extradition detention he was held in a villa in house arrest and had all other liberties uh safe for he wouldn't leave the u.k. and that's the only legitimate purpose for restricting julian nasant's purpose if ever we should consider that extradition proceeding legitimate in the first place but if we do that then he could at the most be lawfully kept in house arrest so the fact that he's being kept in an expensive solitary confinement arrangement in belmarsh proves that the authorities have other things in mind than just assure his presence for that trial so i i think with this i have exhausted my initial speaking time i thank you very much for your attention clearly i'm free to and i'm willing to to respond to any questions anyone might have thank you very much for your attention many thanks uh neils and we'll come on to questions after our next speaker but i want to say that we've been started we've been joined since the start also by representatives from argentina from belgium and from island and norway as well and in fact we've had over 40 international guests registered for today's event and i think that just goes to show the strength of feeling from parliamentarians across the globe on this crucial issue and on that note i'd like to invite stellar to address the meeting hi richard thank you last sunday was the two-year anniversary of julian's arrest and incarceration in belmarsh and there were protests and vigils on five continents and in and the story was in the major uk newspapers a double-decker bus was filled with people and draped with julian free assange and it followed the path from julian's arrest at the ecudorean embassy to belmarsh prison where julian has been buried from public view for the past two years if it weren't for julian's calls with me and a limited number of people he would have no idea what was going on not only around the world but just 50 yards from the cell that holds him this is what a prison like belmarsh is for to seal you off to make you feel that you are alone and forgotten to the world julian spends most of the hours of the day alone when we speak it's only 10 minutes at a time imagine being forced to communicate with your loved one in this way imagine having to explain to our children max who's two and gabriel who's three why daddy was speaking to them one second and then disappeared the next imagine telling them that their father wants to come home but they won't let him yet i don't know how to describe what i have had to witness terms such as monumental injustice aberration come to mind and i think of alluding to basic democratic principles and human rights but all these are words that ultimately feel stale and abstract i have not yet found the words for what we are going through julian is the most considerate principle of the generous person i know and what is being done to him is cruelty in its rawest form julian has spent two years in a high security prison the obama administration decided not to charge julian because julian's conduct was no different to that of the rest of the press charging julian would mean criminalizing journalism obama pardoned the alleged source chelsea manning who was free the charges brought by mike pompale and the trump administration do just that they criminalized journalism to date julian has suffered severe punishment through process surrounded by the worst murderers and drug dealers in britain he's in a prison where prisoners are killed through murder or suicide every few months he faces 175 years or how many however many life sentences if you want to quantify all this for publishing information of the highest political and historical interest on the fourth of january the lowest court in this country the uk blocked the extradition because the judge concluded that extraditing julian to the brutal and inhumane treatment he would receive would inevitably kill him the doj is appealing and the high court will decide in the coming weeks if and when the appeal was heard a reversal of the decision to block extradition would mean a death sentence for julian this case should be understood with the urgency and importance of a capital case the u.s. government says it has the prerogative to decide what foreign press can publish about its abuses committed abroad it is extending its criminal laws to the rest of the world to prosecute a publisher who has won the highest awards for journalism for doing his job an australian living and working in london paris and berlin for a europe-based publishing organization a card-holding member of his press union whose allegiance is to the public let's pause and think about what the us case against julian is actually saying the u.s. government is claiming that journalists all over the world have no freedom of expression rights and protections because they are not us citizens that u.s. criminal laws apply to them but the first amendment does not even when they are in their own countries if everything else was the same if julian was in london working for where he leaks but he had an american passport then he might have a defense but because of the single fact that he does not have an american passport he doesn't if the case would have been brought by any other country it would have been immediately thrown out and publicly ridiculed the case against julian is the ultimate realization of trump's america first policy it has added an aggressive new dimension to american exceptionalism that removes our rights as non-americans in our own countries and infringes our sovereignty reporters without borders and the national union of journalists in the uk have said that as long as julian is in prison and faces extradition the uk is not a safe place for journalists and publishers to work the trump administration advanced this perversion and other countries will inevitably follow leading to a global race to the bottom for freedom of expression the effect of this extraterritorial discriminatory intrusion is to erode freedoms globally so the far reaching consequences of this case cannot be overstated at the same time the case is an embarrassment to all the governments involved it is obvious to everyone that the uk and the us cannot advance their human rights and press freedom foreign policy agendas effectively with julian in prison across the world the detention of julian is causing real harm right now not just to him but to human rights defenders everywhere because the principle of press freedom is being hollowed out by its loudest proponents for human rights abusers who are criticized by the west for incarcerating journalists political dissidents and human rights defenders their answer is simple immediate and devastating what about assange from amnesty to the osc to the council of europe and the un the voices clamoring for julian's release are strong and mutually reinforcing they must grow louder and louder until there is nowhere for the uk us and australian governments to turn those governments must constantly crash into this case just like saudi arabia does with the kashoggi assassination it is too late for kashoggi but it is not too late for julian as lawmakers you have unique unique avenues and powers at your disposal to press for julian's release and call for an end to his persecution i'd like to thank richard bergen for organizing the symposium the cross parliamentary groups in australia germany and the uk for the work they have already done to put an end to this and to each of you individually and collectively for stepping up to save julian's life and our collective freedoms thank you thank you so much stella now we have 15 or 20 minutes for questions to neils and to stella if people would like to speak if they could indicate by using the raised hand function and then i can see it in the participants list and the first person who's indicated is john donnell mp thanks richard um our brothers and sisters on this call will see there's a a range of labor mps from the uk parliament here jenny corvin claudia web and absent begum as well as richard her myself and it's an indication of the absolute concern that there is on a cross-party basis even within our own parliament about the situation that that julian finds himself in i'm the secretary of the national unit journalist parliamentary group and we've made it clear that julian's case is what it basically means if we can't win this case if we can't secure his release his freedom no journalist is safe anywhere absolutely i'm also i visited a song julian assange in belmarsh i think i'm the only uk mp that was able to do so and i just wanted to put to stella and neils really because they've experienced this as well um i find it deeply ironic that on this case the court has ruled that if julian's is extradited to america within the american system he will be unsafe and it'll be a threat to his life i think i should explain to our brothers and sisters from elsewhere what belmarsh is about i visited belmarsh to visit constituents even and others belmarsh is a high security regime um in those high security regimes there's always a high level of violence in addition to that there's also a high level of self-harm and suicide when i visited julian that month there had been a suicide already on his wing and it is because of the brutality of the regime itself and i this is not about the prison officers themselves this is not about their behavior this is about the nature of the regime itself which is deliberately isolating and humiliating and it's a regime in which many people in a live in a climate where there's given the sense of no hope and that's why there's such a high level of self-harm suicide are also violence as well we have to now obviously on the basis of the arguments i've put forward obviously what we've got to do is rebuff any any of the appeals that are coming from the u.s administration to overturn at least this judgment but it is about creating a climate of opinion which secures not just prevents julian from being extradited to the u.s but actually does secure his release because i fear i fear for his safety in belmarsh i i when i met him he was i was incredibly impressed at the way in which he was holding himself but it's tough it's a tough regime and i i don't think many people survive in that regime for a long period um without severely damaging effects or survive at all so our all our efforts now it's almost a sense of urgency after two years of trying to secure his freedom my question is where do we go from here um when nils and and stellar really i think it is about what we can do in terms of the pressure the international pressure we can bring to bear on the biden regime of course with trump there was no hope but with the biden regime and those within the biden administration it gives us an element of hope and it just how what mechanisms are best to now be used and whether or not we've obviously been restricted with regard to physical meetings because of the covid pandemic but somehow whether or not now it's worth organizing delegations to meet with either online or physically if possible with representatives of the biden regime to demonstrate to them what scale of international pressure and concern that there is on this and i just think now there's has to be a sense of urgency of pressurizing that new administration to give julian hope of this case being dropped altogether so that we can secure his release i fear that exactly as nils has said that assurances might come from america that will then persuade the uk court then to allow the extradition to take place i think nils is right that's one route that we've got to guard against and the best way of doing that i think is to strike at the source of this whole case which is now in the us and in the hands of biden himself i'd welcome people's views about how we go about it thanks very much john uh and we've got janet rice from australia who would like to speak hello everyone and thank you so much for bringing us all together it's been so powerful so far so distressing as well and particularly thanks to nils and to stellar for your opening remarks which would just really put it so succinctly as to what an appalling situation that julian's in um i'm the greens foreign affairs spokesperson here in australia um also on this call we've got senator peter wish wilson and they've been very active um on the campaign to support julian and former senator scott budlin and in australia we've got a quite an active parliamentary friends group which has got cross party support but there is not support for strong action in support of julian from either our government or the the opposition the the labor party although there are members of the government members of the labor party who are um who are supportive um what i wanted to ask was to just reflect on and what difference it would make if there was strong support for julian as an australian citizen i mean it's i find it absolutely astounding and appalling that the australian government is just leaving him um and just abandoning him as an australian citizen and so i want to know i mean i have asked numerous questions about foreign minister about why we have not seen stronger support from the australian government and have got very unsatisfactory um responses but i'd just like you to reflect on what difference will it make if that changed and if we had an australian government that was both advocating strongly on behalf of julian both to the uk government and to the us government in particular and on that note sir peter uh wish wilson has got his hand raised as well thank you richard um thank thanks cellar and nils for your your fantastic speeches could i just ask quickly have we heard whether the u.s administration has put in their substantive case for for the extradition appeal because it's still unclear to us here in australia what the biden administration or merrick garland's stances on the extradition it'd just be good to know if there's any update on that thank you thanks very much and so i want to hand over to uh nils and to westela to respond to those points made um thanks very much um maybe i should just yeah go first go first um in relation to the to the biden administration um well the trump administration two days before leaving office lodged their appeal and and kind of locked the incoming administration into uh the appeal they could have waited and just left it to them but they didn't uh and they did that with various other things like um uh the who sees and so on um so uh the biden administration has has lodged its substantive um uh reasons uh for appeal but i i don't necessarily read very much into that um the the strongest indication is that the outgoing lead prosecutor of the uh case against julian zachery tell winden winder um or something similar um gave an interview with with uh national public radio in the u.s uh because he was leaving his post and going into private practice and the interview was that just the day after julian had won the case against the u.s government and his comments was that uh the biden administration would have to look at this case afresh um because the the it was a question of resources and and where you want to put your efforts um and he was indicating that there wasn't really uh a very strong appetite to pursue this case and that there's um controversy within the u.s government about pursuing this case and there's no surprise there because um the new york times and the washington post and all the all the press freedom organizations in the u.s who have analyzed this case understand and have expressed that this is the single greatest threat uh to the first amendment and press freedom in the u.s of you know the past 100 years uh or at least the past 40 and i know you're going to hear from uh the the lawyer for the uh new york times in the pentagon paper case uh james goodale uh later on today and he can he can speak to just how how um outrageous and and dangerous and um this this case is and so the biden administration is under pressure internally uh in relation to this case because you have to remember julian is not a whistleblower sometimes he is described as such from what i see but um he's not the source uh he is the person who receives and disseminates the information to the public and that is a publisher and that means that the case that is taken against him sets a precedent not for whistleblowers but for publishers and i think there has to be a shift in um approach uh of understanding that difference uh because uh it is the conduct that uh is alleged against julian that is is described as a crime they're not going after julian assange um because he's julian assange they're going after the conduct of publishing information even though they admit it is information in the public interest um they if you break down the charges and i'll try not to extend too much but if you break down the charges there's um 140 years just have to do with receiving and possessing um information that the us doesn't want says it hasn't authorized um to for uh a publisher to receive and possess where does it leave publishers not just in the us this is a foreign publisher publishing he wasn't breaking any laws in the uk he was he was carrying out protected activity press activity in the uk and the us is reaching in across the borders and saying and and curtailing press freedoms in the uk and saying uh that these are criminal activities and that they have uh the ability to to reach um into these borders and pluck julian out and and that's what i'm in prison but can i take the floor quickly yes of course please do thank you i obviously i fully agree with what stella just said what i want to add to this is perhaps it was this question of would it make a difference if in australia perhaps you know the population were more active um in campaigning i think in order to understand what would be effective here we have to understand the bigger mechanics of this and and what as stella said it is about suppressing the truth if you allow me to simplify it that way this is what this is about it's that those the united states but also its allies that this includes the uk it includes sweden but it also includes germany and others none of those governments is interested in having someone like uh jewelry nasant who's promoting transparency um just roaming around and publishing their secrets and i'm although that's what press freedom is about because it is the fourth estate and it's actually overseeing correct behavior of governments but we have to realize that the australian government is very deeply in bed if you allow me to say with the secret services in the us and the uk and sweden and all the western secret services or intelligence services they're cooperating very closely now that's not a conspiracy it's just they're operating uh modalities after 9 11 and they i'm sure they're genuinely convinced that they're fighting terrorism and so on but they have what has evolved in the last 20 years and i can really say that because i've worked for all those 20 years in that precise area what has developed is kind of a subculture parallel universe of intelligence services that keep very important information secret and that suppress evidence for the ill treatment and and and other international crimes and that that prevent democratic societies from actually exercising their democratic control this is how the espionage act and how the official secrets act are being abused what if they're being abused for and this is what this case is trying to establish a basis to be able to use those pieces of legislation in order to suppress the truth to to to prevent democratic societies from actually exercising their control and holding the authorities accountable now if you don't believe me just look at the facts none of the war crimes that have been proven have been prosecuted if those states were in good faith they would never behave like that so this is what this is about they don't want to prosecute their misconduct and so they persecute the person that exposes them if we understand that this is the big mechanics then it is logical that the governments don't support during assange but it is not in the interest of their own populations it's because they're too closely intertwined without any accountability with with foreign intelligence services and so I think it is very important that the public becomes more aware of how things really work in practice and that they start demanding accountability from their governments and I think parliamentarians are absolutely key here because you're the ones that are passing the laws you are the ones who are in direct contact with your constituencies you can you can trigger those those dialogues and it's not just about you know prosecuting bad guys it's about changing this or ensuring that our system remains uh transparent and where it's no longer transparent it becomes transparent and accountable again and so this is what this is really about so I think it's absolutely yes it's crucial that parliamentarians uh you know have this dialogue and that they also engage the population and show the population their various constituencies why this is so important in practice because the governments really are too close to the ball and they are on a daily basis cooperating with with other intelligence services and they're basically paralyzed and this is exactly what you see how they respond to those questions from parliamentarians how the governments in Germany or in Australia or elsewhere how they respond to those questions it's very evasive they they always it's some form of platitudes that they tell you you know but oh this is about the rule of law and we can't interfere with an ongoing proceeding and so on but when it's about Navalny in Russia they can very well interfere with an ongoing proceeding so and I'm not you know I I agree that Navalny's rights are being violated but he is being detained for a a bail violation and that's why everybody issues you know imposes sanctions on Russia but no one imposes sanction on the UK for detaining Julian Assange because of a bail violation which is not really a bail violation because he received official asylum by a UN member state and let me just close on this remark Judge Beretser who actually refused Julian Assange's extradition on the 4th of January based on medical grounds and because she said that the US conditions of detention would be oppressive she confirmed that Julian Assange was right in seeking asylum in Ecuador she didn't say that but he sought asylum in Ecuador in the embassy because he was afraid of being extradited to inhumane detention conditions so he was right to ask for guarantees from Sweden to ask for guarantees from the UK that they would not extradite him to the US and he always offered that he would come out of the embassy if that were given but both states refused to do that and now even the magistrate courts confirmed that he was right in essence thank you thank you so much Neil thank you so much Stella and thanks to everyone who took part in this opening session and it gives me great pleasure to hand over to chair the second session today to Apsana Begum an inspirational new member of parliament from the British Parliament and this session Apsana's chairing will be in updates from activities in different countries in support of Julian Assange so Apsana thank you so much Richard and welcome to anybody that's just joined on the call today as Richard mentioned I'm a member of parliament in the UK parliament and I represent Poplar and Limehouse in East London we're actually 10 years ago Julian actually attended and delivered a couple of talks actually and I attended as a young student a few years back in this session we have just under one hour to share with one another what's happening in parliamentary campaigns and campaigns beyond parliament in different countries around the world and indeed if there are any sort of updates that can be shared that may benefit us all in understanding you know what we can do all together to move forward on this case and free him I know there are some speakers who've already been in touch to indicate that they wish to speak and I will draw upon them but also others who they wish to speak if you just use the zoom function raising hand function to raise your hand and I will draw you in but I will request if you can keep your contributions to four to five minutes and I'll leave a one minute warning in the zoom chat function as well to let you know that there are others that wish to speak as well and just to remind anybody that's just joined as well the organisers of the symposium have ensured that there is French and Spanish translation available that can be accessed through the interpretation button on the function bar at the bottom of the screen so I think it would be good if I think if we start off just to maybe say a little bit more about the UK and and sort of maybe the work that's been done by parliamentarians of the UK in relation to sort of building up support in relation to other countries and so I want to sort of firstly ask to speak the former leader of the UK Labour Party Jeremy Corbyn who I believe is on the call so Jeremy if you can unmute yourself and maybe you can bring us to speed a little bit more about the work that you've been doing and others have been doing in the UK Parliament that'd be great. Thanks Apsanae Jeremy First of all thank you for everyone being on the call and thank you for the sense of solidarity that there is around the world for Julian. I have to say I ask myself a question all the time why it is the British media hardly report the situation at all like it's almost a non-story in most of the British press whereas it is a very big story in other parts of the world including in the USA which I find very very strange indeed. The campaign for to prevent Julian being removed to the USA the extortion request is a very important and very strong one and Richard Bergen and others have constantly done their best to raise it in parliament in different ways and Diane Abbott as the former shadow home secretary made it clear that her support for Julian and I think the sellers point that Julian is a publisher more than anything else it is being threatened with deportation for or extradition for is a very important point to make because it is it's easy language to say and indeed I'm probably falling into myself on occasions that he's a whistleblower like others you know it's a slightly different situation but I do think that the emphasis has to be that if sent to the USA he would get a indeterminate sentence would never be out in the rest of his life and his medical condition would be exacerbated by being there and that secondly his rights in Britain are very limited because he should not be in maximum security of prison in Belmarsh he should not be in prison at all and as the British government simply said we are not prepared to extradite him because of the view taken by the court then I think it would be a very different set of circumstances and they could then persuade the US to withdraw it now I think the need for a global parliamentary campaign on this is very important today is part of that could we try and use the inter-parliamentary union on this I'm a member of the British branch the inter-parliamentary union as I would imagine my colleagues are can we also try and use the Commonwealth parliamentary association on this because the Australia is obviously a member of the Commonwealth and is there any circumstance in which we can get this brought up at a session of the UN Human Rights Council when it next meets because it seems to me that we just have to raise the stakes a lot more on this the the disposal of the questioning by Norway on this Sweden on this over Julian has certainly helped the campaign quite a lot because that while that issue was overhanging it made it often very difficult to persuade parliamentary colleagues to be involved in the Julian case but since that has now gone and it is clearly a case of the right of a journalist to be able to disseminate information and it is the right of a publisher to be able to publish it central to this and as Salah and Nils both said if this had happened was happening in anywhere else in the world just imagine the way the media would deal with it a publisher is wrongly imprisoned in China at the present time and a great deal at the world's media focuses attention on that the same would happen if it were Russia the same the same would happen if we're many other countries and so what I think we demand is excuse me I've just come back from speaking of housing demonstration that what we have to demand is one a link an effective link of parliamentarians all around the world on this secondly a lot of pressure on the British media to take the issue up much more seriously therefore popular events outside the prison are important popular demonstrations are important popular demands are important and getting well-known personalities support is important and thirdly let's use the international institution that we've got access to as a way of demanding his safety and his security question for any of the lawyers on is there any further mileage in trying to take the issue to the European Court of Human Rights in respect of breaches of the European Convention of Human Rights on the right of free speech which clearly is fundamental to this issue but can I just finish by saying thank you very much I'm I'm sorry for this and also for your brilliant work in parliament and the amazing speech that you made this week it will go down in parliamentary history as a incredible major contribution to our own democratic demands so I'm sorry thank you very much and congratulations again on that speech well thanks so much Jeremy for those kind words and as ever you know you've inspired me and many others in our generation to come forward and you know we thank you for the work that you've done over decades for people all around the world who deserve human rights it's really important what you said there I think and I think we'll be picked up in the next session as well about the IPU the CPA and the United Nations Security Council and other international forums and bases which really should provide I think I agree with you a springboard to really really build up the global campaign to free Julian and as well as I think well known personalities as well I think that is important the more that we see them them using their platforms to come forward as well and I think we can do to push that as well I think is is really key so thank you Jeremy I'm going to go now over to France I believe she is speaking from France so I feel like we're traveling and Danielle Obono from the French Parliament I know she will have to leave shortly after so over to you Danielle and welcome hi everyone I hope you can hear me well yes we can hear you yeah great thank you very much thank you for the campaign and Andrew and Absana for inviting us I'm Danielle Obono from the French Parliament a member of the group La France Insoumise and I'm also representing our president the president of our parliamentary group Jean-Luc Mélenchon who couldn't be here with us because he's actually a meeting fellow parliamentarian in Ecuador and in Latin America and it was a bit complicated to connect with us but he is with us in spirit because he's been one of the leading political figure in France advocating on behalf of Julian Assange he went to same in London in 2012 at the video conference in 2013 and he's been asking since 2019 for a political asylum asylum to be granted Julian Assange in France at the time which is interesting is that the minister of justice our now minister of justice Eric Dupont-Moretti made the same request he's been one of the lawyer who's been advocating for Julian Assange and now being the justice minister we're still calling him for supporting this demand so he is what Jean-Luc Mélenchon wanted to share with you about the important movement we're building and the important case we're discussing Julian Assange is a freedom fighter thanks to him many war crimes committed by the US military around the world have come to light he also he also rendered a great service to our country by showing how all French leaders were systematically spied on by our so-called alive the United States this was notably the case for presidents Chirac, Sarkozy and Holland were wiretapped by the NSA since 2010 Julian Assange has been hunted down by the American Empire he spent seven years in the Ecuadorian embassy in London in a nine square meter room for a year and a half he's been languishing in an English prison I've long called for friends to grant political asylum to Julian Assange on April 11 2019 when the current Ecuadorian president decided to hand him over to the British police I again formally made the same request the distance minister when he was one of Assange's lawyers also actively campaigned for our country to grant asylum to the London recluse I hope he has not forgotten this fair fight now that is the minister I therefore address once again solemnly Emmanuel Macron grant asylum to Julian Assange France must not abandon those who help it to be free and independent I have to add that we keep on putting the pressure on our government and Jean-Luc Mélenchon as well as Mathilde Panneau who is the vice president of our parliamentary group also nominated police Julian Assange for the Nobel Prize for our prerogative of parliamentarian and then to have pressure on the on the French government to be more active to speak out actually on this on this issue we can't call himself the nation of freedoms and be so silent and being complicit in what is being done to one of as we said one of the world's freedom fighter in those days I think there's also some more pressure to put on the poll in the media in the in the in the press here in France been not very courageous also in in in in fighting back especially knowing the consequences and it's in very eloquently explained before how this will not only what is being done to Julian Assange as a person is absolutely revolting but what the meaning and the the political meaning of what is being done is is a is an attack on freedom of press freedom and of all of people seeking speaking true to power by by showing what what our governments are doing on our on our names and I think it's very important also for for the media to be especially in France more more outspoken about that so we'll keep doing this work in France and thank you very much for allowing us to to to be part of this moment and and of course we will support all the initiative that you you you talk about and you decide to to launch in order to to win this fight for Julian Assange but also for our freedoms and our democracy thank you very much thanks so much Daniel and I think there's so much there as well that I think we've got to take forward there in terms of working together collectively particularly here I know in the UK and solidarity to you and your leader in your party for everything that you're doing because I know even from just across the pond over here I feel the strength of the struggle and the and the fight that you're currently facing in terms of the freedoms and rights in in France as well so thank you Daniel and I'm going to now go over to I can see that Yanis has joined us Yanis Varoufakis from Greece so if I come to you Yanis and draw upon you to to let us know what's happening where you are and your thoughts on what we can do and what you're doing to take the campaign forward as well but thank you very much what's happening here in Greece is what's happening everywhere we have a deepening techno feudal oligarchy which is relying extensively on ensuring that parliamentarians as well as the public are kept in the dark about how power manifests itself in our countries in our regions in our continents globally you will recall that I believe it was Michael Pompeo if I'm not so mistaken who described Julian Assange and WikiLeaks in a bid to explain why Julian and WikiLeaks must be eradicated he described Julian and WikiLeaks as a hostile non-state intelligence agency which is exactly right this is precisely what WikiLeaks is but you know it's what the guardians should be it's it's what the Le Mans should be it should be what every self-regarding news outlet ought to be a hostile non-state intelligence agency that reveals to the many that which is happening behind closed doors supposedly in their name against them Julian is very rightly hated by the establishment because he revealed powers guilty secrets and you know we must never skew that we must celebrate that he is a real nightmare public enemy number one for the establishment for the oligarchy and he is that because he has managed in his life to combine two remarkable achievements one is he's a fantastic theoretician theorist of the way power spreads through opacity through the opposite of transparency even before he started WikiLeaks he was theorizing and writing very beautiful texts on how to turn the tables on big brother effectively with how to use to create a technological digital mirror that we turn towards the face of big brother so that while big brother is watching us we are watching him and this is exactly what WikiLeaks is so that was the theory before WikiLeaks and then of course we had the practice and you know the other reason why they hate him so much is because he's a brilliant technologist you know Julian could have been the CEO of Google he could have been a multi-billionaire given his skills but he has chosen you know to be in Belmont's prison to be persecuted and hounded on behalf of you know humanity that needs to have access to the information that is denied by an oligarchy absolutely hell bent on maximizing its power over the many by withholding this information allow me just before I finish because I don't want to monopolize the the the discussion um look I've watched Julian work at close quarters I've you know in one of my many many visits at the Ecuadorian embassy I remember he he texted me sometime and in the middle of the night and said you need to come over so I got in an airplane from Athens I flew to London and got a taxi I ran to as quickly as I could to the Ecuadorian embassy and he had a recording that he wanted to share with me it was a conversation between the head of the European desk of the International Monetary Fund and other members of the International Monetary Fund in which what they were saying was just absolutely absolute confirmation of everything that the Greek people had been suffering under the IMF program since 2010 all the things that we were saying as radicals progressives opponents of the IMF they were admitting to one another and he had this this recording and he asked me to help him deciphering what they were saying because a lot of that a lot of the terminology is apocryphal uh but I watched Julian working as a dedicated journalist you know we were mates we were comrades we were friends we were working together he never revealed to me where that information came from where that recording came from and you know what he would not have revealed it even if his life depended on it because he preserved his sources he was meticulous in the way he ensured that what WikiLeaks published was accurate he had the journal you know the ideal journalist mentality so um this is why he's hated because he's what journalism should be he's what an active democratic citizen should be he's genuinely the living breathing nightmare of the oligarchy and that's why they are trying to kill him in Britain's Guantanamo now to finish off we must stop defending Julian we must go on the attack we must attack those who are killing him enough of defending Julian Julian doesn't need to be defending anymore we need to go on the attack because there is a crime perpetrated against all of us parliamentarians and non-parliamentarians when they are trying to kill the body and the soul of Julian Assange in order to stop democracy from having a chance we don't have democracy but to stop democracy from even having a chance and whenever generally whether it's the BBC or CNN or you know Teve Senck in France wherever whenever they start they ask us about human right violations here there and everywhere wherever you know the west seems to be interested in human rights we must respond by saying what about Julian Assange's human rights what about the human rights of all those people that were helped by Julian Assange and now Julian Assange because he helped them is being killed off on a daily basis this is that this you know whenever they say to us oh but you know Julian Assange did this and did that we must respond by saying to them this is the type of question one asks if one is not interested in the survival of free journalism we must attack the framework that the BBC the Guardian and so on are using in order to justify and to legitimize the slow murder of Julian Assange Solidarity Julian thank you so much Janice and I think you just really clearly explained there I mean how much of this needs to be fought back politically as well as legally and I think that you know the way you just summarized that I was really really helpful I think for all of us that have tuned in I'm going to now go to Norway and the leader of I believe the red party of Norway if I can invite to speak and say a few words maybe about what the campaigns have been like in Norway and and any thoughts or any contributions in terms of the campaign going forward and maybe what we should be working on and maybe on a you know a european basis or beyond I can see Bjorn our max list hopefully I pronounced that correctly but if you want to unmute yourself and it'd be really great to hear from you I can't see Bjorn on the call but I'm not sure if they can if they've been able to receive my message yet but in that case I will go on then to the next person I had in mind to bring to speak to everybody here is from Switzerland the Swiss parliament Carlo Somaruga I hope I pronounced that correctly but Carlo if you want to unmute yourself and perhaps you can tell us what's happening in your country and make some contributions bonjour tout le monde j'espère que vous m'entendez en tout cas depuis la suisse je tiens d'abord à remercier l'organisation de cette conférence parlementaire je pense que c'est un événement politique majeur de pouvoir mettre en réseau les parlementaires de différents pays et ensuite de voir les actions politiques qui peuvent être menées et aussi la sensibilisation et la mobilisation au sein d'autres pays moi même je suis carlo somaruga je suis avocat je suis membre du parti socialiste suisse je siège au parlement fédéral depuis de nombreuses années et pour le canton de genève et je suis actuellement conseiller aux états c'est à dire je suis sénateur du canton de genève je me suis engagé assez rapidement ici en suisse on soutient avec on soutient à juliana singe et j'ai eu l'occasion de le rencontrer en 2013 à l'ambassade équatorienne à l'eau plutôt que de faire une analyse internationale sur la situation de juliana singe je voulais simplement vous dire quelques mots sur le mouvement de solidarité en suisse dès lors que de nombreuses personnes ici en suisse à différents niveaux se sont engagés pour s'en soutient il y a naturellement toutes les militantes et tous les militants de la liberté d'expression et de la défense et droit de l'homme mais aussi les militants et les militantes qui qui refuse les logiques de la raison d'état et je crois que c'est extrêmement important de le souligner cette logique de la raison d'état qui fait que l'on cache l'on justifie les crimes de guerre les atrocités et la torture et surtout qui empêche que ces actes illégaux du point de vue du droit international et du droit national soit jugé et naturellement il y a tout ce qui s'engage dans ce sens et qui soutient de la démarche de juliana singe avec wikileaks puisque c'est un instrument extrêmement important dans la lutte contre la raison d'état et l'impunité il y a en suisse aussi un réseau d'avocats et de juristes assez étendus dans tout le pays qui est mobilisé sur le cas de juliana singe et qui agit en fonction des nécessités au niveau politique et ça c'est extrêmement important puisque c'est une compétence qui peut être utile au niveau international si elle est demandée mais surtout au niveau suisse pour ouvrir des voies si jamais il y a la volonté de venir et au niveau parlementaire il y a nombre d'élus qui sont engagés ils sont engagés au niveau aussi parlementaire local parlementaire régional et fédéral au niveau fédéral il y a des parlementaires qui se sont engagés depuis longtemps sur le sort de juliana singe ceci dans les deux chambres on a un système bicaménal comme comme aux états unis l'idée de base qui est autour de cette mobilisation est que la suisse puisse accorder un visa humanitaire à juliana singe le terrain politique est quand même assez déblayé pour une telle démarche il y a des soutiens qui sont assez large d'une part il y a la ville de jeuneuve qui s'est en tant que ville mobilisé en suisse pour pouvoir amener les autorités nationales à accorder ce visa humanitaire à juliana singe il y a aussi le canton de jeuneuve qui est s'est mobilisé non seulement le parlement mais aussi des membres de l'exécutif qui sont prêts à soutenir auprès des autorités fédérales la loctroie d'un permis humanitaire et puis ce qui est important aussi c'est qu'il y a le service de santé publique l'hôpital cantonal de jeuneuve qui est prêt à recevoir juliana singe pour des soins s'il vient en suisse si cela est nécessaire il y a également des contacts avec des cliniques privés qui sont qui pourraient aussi intervenir de manière plus discrète pour la prison charge de juliana singe s'il devait venir en suisse je dirais encore que au niveau fédéral il y a ce qu'on appelle chez nous la division de sécurité humaine qui s'occupe des problèmes et des questions des droits de l'homme au niveau international qui est qui a une oreille assez attentive de sur ce dossier c'est un un segment du département fédéral des affaires étrangères et donc il s'agit là d'un signe assez encourageant l'idée d'un permis humanitaire en suisse qui mobilise qui en fait le vecteur qui permet de mobiliser au-delà des je dirais des cercles politiques très très engagés c'est que c'est un instrument qui est limité dans le temps qui peut être octroyé en vertu de disposition qui existe déjà dans dans la loi et qui ça implique à des personnes qui sont qui ont la vie ou l'intégrité physique qui est en danger qui est menacé quelque soit d'ailleurs le pays d'origine ou de provenance l'intérêt c doit doit se trouver vraiment dans cette situation de détresse particulière et on est vraiment dans la situation de Julien Assange il remplit parfaitement les conditions l'obtention d'un visa humanitaire en suisse et en fait un visa qui a dû durer je dirais limité dans le temps mais qui permet en fait dans un context relativement calme de pouvoir réfléchir à la suite des opérations à la suite de l'avenir de de Julien Assange et c'est pour cela que nous estimons que dans l'icothèse que nous attendons tous de cette libération de Julien Assange il y est cette possibilité de voir la suisse comme pays d'accueil aussi comme pays neutre comme pays aussi qui se fait fort des droits de l'homme mais pour cela il faut se battre il faut mobiliser politiquement en suisse il faut rappeler que ce système que surtout duquel se mobilise la classe politique mais aussi les militants des droits de l'homme est un système qui avait été utilisé en plein guerre froide dans les années 60 quand se plaita la stalin quittait l'union soviétique pour se réfugier aux usa en fait elle fut accueillie en suisse pendant six mois en toute discrétion avant qu'elle soit ensuite elle part ensuite pour les états unis c'est un système qui est aussi appliqué pour des militants des droits de l'homme en colombie ou dans d'autres pays qui doivent être chapés à la répression de l'état ou aux escadrons de la mort et ça fonctionne relativement bien il n'y a pas de raison qu'en suisse on ne puisse pas appliquer un militant de la liberté un combattant de la liberté comme juliana singe ce type de mécanisme je vous ai donc résumé un petit peu la mobilisation qu'il y a en suisse les objectifs pour participer à la solidarité avec juliana singe et au combat qu'il mène et donc je termine ici en exprimant à juliana singe la solidarité de toutes celles et ceux qui ici en suisse à tous les niveaux s'engage pour sa libération et s'identifie au combat qu'il a mené et qu'il continue à mener merci thank you so much for that that was really really informative actually because i wasn't i know maybe many others as well not aware of what was happening there and i think there's been a lot of work that's been done to try and bring the campaign higher in on the agenda in switzerland so thank you for everything that you're doing there and and we look forward to staying in touch with you and working together on this campaign i'd like to invite then next to speak george tayana i believe i hope i pronounce that correctly but apologies if not and i believe you are a senator from argentina so over to you and we'd love to hear from you if you can unmute yourself please thank you you pronounce very well the the last neck so i well i'm from argentina i am a member of the senate of argentina i am the president of the foreign affairs committee so in that position i am here and i want to to say first of all that we know very well the situation of juliana singe it's because we in argentina follow very close the the freedom of expression because we have given a lot of time to control over the freedom of expression control over the press and and dictatorship and ruling but also we know very well about juliana singe because the work of our former embassy in the uk that is uh i think it's in the in the in the zoom now that is alicia castro that was very close to the situation she followed she goes to the embassy of ecuador and she gave all the support she she she could at that time to to show the horrible situation in which julian was going through the problem with juliana singe is that it's not just about the that is going through expose the opacity of the international intelligence uh apparatus and and put transparency of that this is part of the problem that's why we need to support the freedom of juliana singe and that is why it's very important that this international parliamentary meeting is is trying to to obtain but the problem actually is not just assange the person and the freedom of expression the the the same countries and powers that prosecute assanges has no problem with the murder for example of journalist casagli in the official facility of a friendly state so the problem with juliana singe is that he defies the great powers and confront the control of these powers over the information over the public opinion actually over the global political system and the statu quo this is the sin of juliana singe and that is why we the parliamentarians need to make a stand and support julian assange because it's not acceptable for we that express the people that the great powers and the intelligence apparatus control the information control the public opinions and show this capacity to punish who try to show that opacity and tend to make it more transparency so i think that is it's time to coordinate more active the the action of our parliamentarians we can work within our societies of course put the issue in the in the political dialogue with several countries with the united states with uk and with australia because he's a national of australia and be sure that in the case of argentina we the parliamentarians will work work close to to the idea of freedom of julian and to fight any form of opacity and lack of transparency of the great powers intelligence apparatus we suffer a lot from them and we are not going to accept again in this case another another issue another time thank you very much thank you so much rodent i think that solidarity and the campaigning work that you're doing um in your country and in your parliament is so important i think and then should never be sort of undervalued and understated given you know the fact that julian was in the embassy in the uk and and the role of parliamentarians in latin america is is going to be so crucial going forward as well i'm going to call down next to speak andre honko from germany i believe who is also a member of the parliamentary assembly of the council of europe as well which could be another body to try and lobby you try and bring forward the agenda higher up there as well with the campaign so over to you andre thank you very much apsana um yes i'm a member of the german parliament and of the parliamentary assembly of council of europe first of all i would like to thank you for this so important and timely meeting because i think now is the time to um to reaware a bit about the situation of of julian assange because there was a lot of of course in january after the court ruling there was a lot of um awareness and as at least in germany um that awareness now is um is lacking a bit um i totally agree what most of the speaker said concerning the importance and significance of the case not only for journalism but as well on democracy itself as nils melzer pointed out um and i just want to concentrate on what what what we can do as parliamentarians so i think very important is uh on the one hand to have these um um let's say cross party um julian assange groups in the different parliaments we had some good um um um experience here in germany uh initiated by seven badelin um this is important i think and as well in the international parliamentary um institutions which uh we have i think two are important um it's the ipu international parliamentary union and the parliamentary assembly of council of euro concerning the last one um we had some um success last year in january we were with the assembly called for the immediate release of julian assange um and uh that's different to the european parliament by the way they couldn't uh couldn't decide on this and um uh we had a good statement of the human rights commissioner of the council of europe um dunia mihatovic in february last year and this is important because the court in strasbourg the human rights court will probably um after the british um rulings will decide as well and this is linked to the council of europe so so i think now is would be the right time to um to establish we we had hearings last january with these meds as well uh but we didn't establish some kind of continuous working group um uh cross party working group and i i think we could establish such a group now i saw some good comrades here i saw germy corbin who is now as well in the parliamentary assembly i saw paul gaven and others so so i think that would be a good idea but i think in we should really establish in the different parliaments and in the um parliamentary assemblies um uh such kind of um yeah let's say institutionalized working groups uh um on the case of durian assault that's my my idea thank you very much for this meeting and for all the contributions but thanks so much hondry for joining us and i think it's so important what you said there and i think establishing all of those international spaces shared spaces to take the campaign to and bring higher up on the agenda is it's just going to be so crucial in the in this next phase as well and it's really brilliant that we've got so many of us from all these different parts of the world to to come together and and share this space here today and and to provide that space to to connect with each other and and and do so accordingly um i'm going to now ask to speak uh james goodall who is um with us i think joined us i'm not sure where he's joined us from but he is the former new york times general counsel and vice chairman and obviously asked for the new york times is right to publish the pentagon papers so such crucial amazing work and i think it's really um important i think to hear from from yourself and and perhaps um uh hear from you as to how we can maybe take this campaign forward from your perspective so welcome james and over to you can you hear me yes we can hear you okay great well let me make uh three points the first of which is a somewhat parochial and that is uh julian assange is uh being indicted under the espionage act that act does not apply to people who are engaging in first amendment activities as julian assange has been so my very first point is that this whole proceeding which started in united states and is now in the uk because the uk is going to extradite uh trying to extradite julian is trumped up in my opinion uh and now the reason i say that with some authority is that the case that was brought in united states a million actually 50 years ago against the new york times was also based on the espionage act but by the time that case reached the supreme court the united states government had decided that the espionage act didn't apply to publication and journalism and i would argue that that same view still applies here and that the charges against julian assange which essentially all based on the espionage act are trumped up because the act doesn't doesn't apply so what did the government do which takes me to my second point in that case uh it uh had to defend against the first amendment violation and of course the new york times one under the first amendment and the point i want to make uh here is that this is a very important case from an international viewpoint form for freedom of speech which is ensconcing the first amendment in this country and in other uh constitutional provisions throughout the world uh what the united states government is doing is basically trying to shut down the disclosure of the activities that it engaged in in the uh a rack war and the afghanistan war and that sort of thing and these activities uh do not damage national security are important for international understanding and i take it obviously that's why we are all here today but i wanted to uh i wanted to underline uh that that point uh lastly i wish to make the uh the obvious point uh that neils uh has stood from from the very beginning which is that we should not lose sight of the terrible way that uh science has been treated by the uk courts he was ensconced in a glass cage as we all probably know in the uh courtroom uh he's been in a covid-defested prison he's been not allowed out for a long long time and the whole treatment of a science just from a humanitarian humanitarian point of view has been outrageous and anyone in the world can uh join in on that uh point of view and does not have to be a julia sange often uh you know uh fan because generically his human rights have been really uh badly damaged and so i'd like to uh conclude by saying that my hope is that the appeal uh of this case it's been decided that julia sange is suicidal it cannot be extradited will be affirmed as it goes up the uk courts and and beyond because uh he really he really deserves to be let out of prison just as a plain human being thank you thank you so much james and then it's really good to have you on on here actually uh today and and the work that you've done is is i think so quite an insightful in terms of the threats posed by the outcomes or future of this case for press freedom overall i'm keen to uh open up um the floor but i know that a couple of other people might want to come back in as well um but just really focusing at this point now um you know how to you know any thoughts any ideas about how we can you know really campaign and move forward the campaign uh to help free julian um i want to just bring in very quickly i know um peter uh from australia will have some ideas senator peter uh from australia if you want to unmute yourself and it would be glad uh to hear from you and and the work that you and your colleagues are doing and and want to do going forward um i think pete has actually left the call okay so like i might just give a quick update yeah done it's all right yeah so i'll give a quick update as to what's happening in australia um where there was a very strong community campaign that sadly isn't um well reflected in our parliament um we've got a although we have got a very active parliamentary friends group with uh um led by some very um focused and keen campaigners but it's a relatively small number of the parliamentarians in the australian parliament but you know we we do our best to keep the um issue of julian asylum very live in the australian parliament as i said in my previous contributions um our government is very unsupportive and i think the analysis by by neils earlier on is to the reasons behind that of their um collusion with the security and intelligence agencies in the u k and the us is basically behind that and they don't want to take any action that's going to support you know speaking truth to power and publishing information that they are not keen on seeing published so um we are doing our best to to keep on you know making the issue very live and be working with the community who uh you know are very keen to and very good at keeping the issue very prominent lots of huge amount of social media coverage reasonable amount of mainstream media coverage when there is a developments or when there is something that's of of great interest in the parliament that's that's occurred um and but you know not as much as i think there should be given the the situation of julian being an australian citizen and being held under such unreasonable and outrageous circumstances um with regards to we're in the um we are facing a federal election in australia either at the end of this year or early next year um the it's actually quite a tight electoral position so there could be a potential of a change of government the labor party here in australia has been pretty weak on their position on the sarge but they have strengthened it slightly following their national conference last month where although they made a very they had a motion that went through conference which was still pretty weak but basically said that labor believes it is now time for this long drawn out case against julian the sarge to be brought to an end so they don't commit themselves to taking any action they don't commit themselves to you know really strongly advocating on behalf of um of julian but at least that's a you know they put a line in the sand and they feel that it's the ongoing persecution of julian the sun should come to an end so that's a good start and i think an important part of the campaign here in australia is going to be to get the the labor party to support the calls from the community and to support us i'm a greens mp and the various independent mps who have been very strong supporters of of the sarge sorry to interrupt you can i just ask you just on that i mean how many of the austrian labor party parliamentarians are on board if you like is it are you able to sort of maybe suggest a number or is it just a broad you know motion that went through the party and and that's sort of where it stands it's a broad motion that went through the party and it didn't they did not put get much attention to it it basically went through without debate there wasn't a focus on that their conference at all but there it appeared and had been negotiated beforehand so the number of mp of labor mps that speak out on behalf of of julian in the parliament is pretty small but there are a few strong supporters so there's a base to work from and as i said there is a lot of support in the community so i think there's the potential to really be continuing to sort of amp up the campaign and we'll just we'll keep on doing that but i think the the potential of having a really good international alliance of parliamentarians i think will be a really powerful addition to our campaigning in australia because obviously you know with julian being an australian citizen we should be leading the charge for justice for him as an australian citizen to end the persecution thanks can i say something yes james yeah i didn't give a report on the organization in the united states in support of julian the signs along the lines of one we've just heard because there is an eddy and we could count that as a personal failure of the president's speaker who has spent uh ten years trying to uh get support i do want to report however one promising event that took place about three weeks ago organized by trevor tim who's a president of the first amendment foundation and who testified in the case he was able to get all the human rights organizations on the same page for the first time to make a complaint to the justice department to stop the progress of the case because there's been a change in administration uh while that seems modest by what we've just heard it is a actually a great breakthrough and should the occasion come up for a further action uh uh we have a group now that will act and we have a leader trevor who can get them to act but i have to tell you even so that is even though that is good news uh there is a paucity of support for julian the signs in this country that's that's really helpful to to no one understand james and and as you say i think it's um given um that there hasn't been as you say for a really long time much movement i think this although modest it may seem is actually quite significant in in the us to to see that and and again that's just means it's so important for for the pressure to be kept up uh can i bring in um claudia web who's the member of parliament uh for lester east in the uk and then i'll bring in paul hikin i can see jeremy you're indicating as well i'll bring you in and i know elicia wants to also speak as well um so claudia first and and then um uh hikin then paul thank you absana and thank you for introducing me my name is claudia web and i'm a member of parliament here in the uk representing a seat called lester east obviously we can be in no doubt as to what this case is really about the charges against julian assange amount to a political trial uh to punish assange for the united states loss of face really in the wake of disclosing uh the disclosure of war crimes so for the mere act of disclosing war crimes but as we know the charges against him should never have been brought in the first place the charges were politically motivated and the uk uh uh uh the uk really uh and the uk government should never have so willingly assisted the us in its unrelenting pursuit of us of a side as parliamentarians in the uk we should all be doing all that we can and be concerned about the continuing imprisonment and attempted extradition of julian assange he is here in belmarsh high security jail as uh my as my colleagues highlighted and he faces charges in the united states which could actually result in uh prison sentence of 175 years um so keeping we know that keeping julian in near isolation uh is obviously a major health risk uh and further assumed suicidal risk the us is attempting to reverse the findings of the court despite the judges clear ruling that julian's life would be at risk where he committed to the us prison system our role as british parliamentarians is to continuously continuously highlight the inhumanity and unjust imprisonment of julian on british soil in such in in inhumane uh uh conditions and therefore to continue to bring this to light for free speech groups for journalists everywhere this is not the end of the road um because i think um it sets a terrible precedent this case presents a very real danger to the freedom of the press it extends the judicial reach of the us government and it deploys uh the 1917 us espionage act as we've heard against the journalists for the very first time the message that such a prosecution would inevitably send is that no journalists no journalists of any nationality no matter where in the world they publish is safe to publish material that the powerful does not approve and as we know julian assange believes uh the journalists are the agents of the people not power that we the people have a right to know about the darkest secrets of those who claim to act in our name if the powerful lie to us we have the right to know that is such a powerful understanding that we have from julian media and press have an obligation thus our role also has to be to work hard to diversify and democratize our media and to protect the independent voice of journalists and the media yet in the uk our media is not free five billionaires own 80 of the uk press three companies dominate 83 of national newspapers if we include online market just five companies dominate nearly 80 of the market in terms of local media just five companies own 80 percent of titles the challenge for us is great in terms of protecting the authentic authentic voice of journalism and journalists we know that the national union of journalists stated that the us charges against the sun oppose a great and huge threat one that could criminalize the critical work of investigative journalists and their ability to protect their sources the indictment the indictment seeks to criminalize what journalists are not only permitted but ethically required to do which is to take steps to help their sources maintain their anonymity and therefore our protection of uh journalism is critical um work that we have to do in the uk the other thing that we need to do is in terms of human rights organizations the human rights implications of julian's case are severe therefore it's important that we continue to build our alliances with human rights organizations the un working group on arbitrary detention issued a statement saying that the right of mr. Assange the personal liberty should be restored massimore marati of amnesty international has publicly stated that were julian to be extradited or subjected to any other transfer to the u.s britain would be in breach of its obligations under international law human rights watch also published an article saying that the only thing standing between an assange prosecution and the major threat to global media freedom is britain it is urgent that it defends we in britain defend the principles at risk so as parliamentarians our role is to continue to build our alliances with our independent human rights organizations so the course for action for us is clear uh assange is a deeply polarizing figure and the powerful rely on the animosity for assange personally to effectively blind people to the dangers that this indictment poses they're trying to hide the reality yet we must continue therefore to oppose this attempt to criminalize journalism that involves reporting on classified information if not this indictment could set a chilling precedence with grave implications for the functioning of our democracy if you know at the end of the day uk parliamentarians there were meant there were some of us here on this call today but we have to convince our colleagues work with our colleagues those who believe in social justice to understand that this is an attempt to silence all of us the u.s. government must drop this prosecution the british government must review this extradition request and take urgent action to halt a process from which there can be no satisfactory outcome no satisfactory outcome either for julian or for the freedom of the press therefore our work must continue to you to unify to unite and to have solidarity with julian with with journalists independent journalists progressive journalists across the not only in the uk but across the world and to have solidarity and unity with parliamentarians with lawmakers across the world to highlight this repressive and oppressive situation that julian is in and the threat it poses for all of us thank you absama thank you so much claudia really powerful there and i think just highlights again what we need to do here as as parliamentarians in the uk to to do our bit as well to to put on the pressure to have these charges dropped i'm going to now ask haiki to speak haiki hansel from uh germany from the german parliament over to you haiki hello to all my colleagues around the world i will be very brief i'm a member of german parliament and member of the committee on foreign affairs and since my colleague sevin daddelen will will speak quite soon and she will make a give us a short sum up of all our activities in parliament and outside the parliament and so on and how it was possible to give a real push through the whole case of julian assange and to have a real game changer she will speak later on so um i would just like to refer to the idea of the ipu which i really do appreciate very much and i also would like to give the proposal or to make the proposal that we should focus on the on the fiftieth birthday of julian on the third of july and perhaps to find some common activities in all parliaments around the world either on this state itself or a little bit earlier because for example in germany won't be on in july won't won't be no sessions holidays already but for example end of june or to find some common activities where we could have a 24-hour speeches you know starting in east ending in west and so on to have some ideas where we could show that that we are connected and we are willing to do everything together uh to free julian assange so this would be my idea perhaps you can can work a little bit on this elaborate a little bit on this what would be possible to have some common things um on focusing on the third of of july that's all thank you thanks so much i think those are two really solid ideas there for for even to take away i think the third of july as a sort of international day of action if you like i think is what you're suggesting and and sort of really bringing together almost like this as symposium of people speaking from east to west i think is is really powerful there thank you so much and i'll bring in next and paul i believe who's from island thanks for joining us paul and over to you next thank you very much good afternoon comrades my name is paul gabin i'm a shin fain senator and i'm also a member of the parliamentary assembly of the council of europe uh i'm going to be brief as well i'm just going to let you know that a group of 20 irish mps and senators uh from my own party and from a range of independent groups broadly progressive people um had got together and we've written to the british ambassador uh the julian's issue has been raised in parliament and will certainly be raised uh again uh and we also requested a meeting if possible uh with julian um look it's very clear to me uh why julian is going through all of this it's because he's had the courage to speak out and expose war crimes and we see the liberal veneer of the state of the state stripped away and as a there's a clear attempt to punish him and to show him to be as an example in case anyone else has the courage to stand up against what's happening um and uh look we know a thing or two an island about what happens when when a state acts badly and tries to hide crimes uh it's very much a part of our own history um so i just want to send greetings of solidarity i want to assure you of our continued commitment uh to julian i want to just salute stella it's it's awful to hear uh what julian is going through uh it's absolutely appalling um and i do think that this is an important meeting because i think the more we can we can coordinate our activities internationally uh would really help uh and i do think uh as jeremy and others have suggested andry suggested as well using international forums like the ipu like the council of europe uh i think has real potential um over the next couple of months so other than that just to say that we'll continue to work uh as we can for julian's freedom and just to issue solidarity thank you thanks so much paul and and thanks for the work that you're doing and and your colleagues as well in terms of putting on the pressure because um like yourselves like yourselves um we have obviously also requested in the uk parliament to to see uh and meet julian and and that has been rejected but we are still um putting the pressure on uh to make sure that there is that outlet as well for for us to hear from an onroman prisoner who should not be in belmosh prison as you say and and the effects of that which we you've you've outlined um as well um i'm going to uh come to um next alicia castrell who of course was an ambassador and and the ambassador when julian sought asylum and it would be really great to hear from you alicia um and and thanks for joining us over to you thank you can you hear me yes yes thank you very much i'm um i think this is a very very important meeting comrades at a very important moment where we have a crisis of so many sorts all together uh i will speak english because i heard that the spanish translation is having some problems so um i was i was ambassador of argentina to the uk in 2012 when julian was granted his diplomatic asylum which is a latin america institution that is very keen to us and we are so sorry that lenin morino uh among other evil things has um has um abandoned julian and and handed julian to the united states knowing that he was going to be asked for extradition and um i could i met him i think the the next day that he was in the ambassador of ecuador and since then i was visiting him very often and i i witnessed his his not only his human conditions and his his bright intelligence his radiant intelligence but his commitment his commitment as an investigative journalist and um he was not only never giving his never revealing his sources but he was he was very he was very obsessive on um on on confronting the facts on knowing and letting know only what was truth and um many many times i would ask him do you know more about this and that would you know more about argentina would you know more about venezuela and he always answered to me if i would know more i would have published it so he was his his his aim his mission was to democratize truth and to to reveal to every man and woman in the in the world uh the secrets that belong to that uh industrial military elite so he's a real hero from my point of view he's a he's a he's a truth hero we would say in spanish and we have these paradox in this in this crucial moment of a real uh crisis civilizatoria a crisis of civilization we have these uh we have these um paradox that we are trying to understand how everything works in the in the midst of fake news and instead julia nasant that really represents truth is in jail so um as um i think there's a very important issue that stela raised this morning it's not only a matter of press freedom it's only a matter of sovereignty i think that's a very interesting point of view to to have a different look at it so i think that um as janez said um while all the while the person that revealed to humanity or the horrors of on the crimes the war crimes and the criminals are free and and juliane is in jail we should point that very strongly as we did we belong uh also with janez and jeremy and we belong to to the progressive international and we put in November last november a tribunal called we called it the belmarsh tribunal um similar to that we try to to make a a mirror to that tribunal that charged the vietnam war crimes in 1969 and uh it was uh it was the sartre russel uh tribunal that was supposedly judging the criminals of vietnam i mean with no power for us judges but yes it's citizens you know uh sartre had a very remarkable words and he said who am i future so i am nowhere i am no one but i am the one who can judge the criminals he said that for vietnam and i think it's um it's the same thing that we could do uh regarding the the julian injustice and suffering so i think that i'd been in parliament also for for eight years and um i appreciate very much that today we have with us um the president of the commission of foreign affairs in in argentine senate senate that already spoke it was my my my my my compañero jorge tayana and uh it's also eduardo valdez that i hope he he he can speak later and he's the president of the foreign affairs commission in parliament in congress and we have another parliamentarians and we hope that adolfo perisesquiel will join us later but i think that one thing that we could do is to work the juliana sange issue in the um in the commissions in in parliament in senate in the in the in those commissions that are friend friend commissions with peace of that country so i think that in them particularly in the in the commission with the united states juliana sange issue is something that has to be present and then the other thing that that i think we should do is to give continuity to these parliamentarians in posthum not a not a one not a one um one's um stance but i think that we could give it some continuity and i appreciate very much the idea of of uh richer burger so thank you very much um for having me for inviting me and um another thing that we have to do i'm always insisting um to my friends and companions and to joseph farrell and i think that um everything that is published on julia and everything on on the internet and tweeters are in english so i hope we can you can translate it to spanish because um as you know it's a very broad uh language and of course it's the quatorian language and of course we are very sorry that um elections in equal or was lost by by by uh andres araus and ravascal because we had had some hopes there and we will keep insisting on the pope to give his word because um everything about his tianete his truth solo la verdad nos hará libres only the truth will make us free thank you very much thanks so much adicia and i think um that was just amazing what you just said there and i think um absolutely in terms of the the forums that you've spoken about uh that we need to apply pressure on and you know there really is i feel there is hope in in in latin america and i see leaders emerging there as well that i know will will help uh take us forward with this campaign and many others so thank you so much for being with us i'm now going to go to mick wallis who is a member of the european parliament and then i will come to jeremy corbin before we close for this session as over to you mick and welcome to this session hello how's it going and thanks very much and um as you i'm a member of the european parliament from ireland and um i'm very glad to be able to uh participate today um as a politician uh it's probably my job to think of the bigger picture and uh what myself and their daily mess during the science back in 2013 in the equilorean embassy and like just about everyone here today i'm sure we believe that what's happening to him is a great injustice but the big picture is that this case just isn't about the science um his individual freedom rights are very important and uh we shouldn't forget that but we have to understand that uh the persecution of the science is actually an attack on all of us um we need to see what's going on within the science part of something much bigger a huge effort to roll back our rights and to dismantle democracy it didn't start in the last year or two uh when the science was arrested it didn't even start 11 years ago when the states vowed to go after him it started uh probably 20 years ago um what's happening to the science in belmarsh uh is part of a process uh uh when the war on terror recently began uh in probably with the attack on afghanistan the events of 9 11 and the us reaction to it have cast a dark shadow over the world uh which we live in right now um you could say that we're living in a bit of a shadow uh it wasn't just the us and his allies that went to war uh that'd be bad enough uh they said their wars uh were to spread democracy but actually the war on terror was a war on democracy uh bush and Blair used the idea of terrorism to commit an assault on civil liberties and the rule of law there a legal war against the iraqi people left international law and the international system in tatters they made a mockery out of human rights they they more or less legalized torture uh they threw due process rights for terror suspects out the window it was one thing after another in the in uh definitive indefinite detention without trial extraordinary rendition atrocities committed by the us ministry and its allies the legal mass surveillance of the whole world's persecution of muslim minorities at home and the destruction of muslim majority's countries abroad uh they wouldn't have been able to do uh what they're doing to a science now without bush and Blair's attack on the rule of law one of the reasons the science legal battle is so difficult is because the uk is extortion treaty it's so mad there's no safeguards for the rights of people accused of anything by the us and we wonder why well Blair wanted to make it easier to strip British muslim suspects of their rights and send them to america if it's science is a victim of the same war on terror laws it did so much to oppose uh the thing that has happened in the last 20 years could not have happened probably without this attack on democracy the war in iraq and afghanistan were crimes against humanity those countries are still suffering from the consequence of those wars and we actually visited iraq for a week only there two weeks ago and it took us i mean it uh it is just horrific uh what was done to millions of people in iraq and you wonder what for uh they didn't even uh ever even end i mean to give birth to the new wars in yemen pakistan samalia libya and syria uh there's been a crazy dead toll millions dead and tens of millions displaced some of them have tried to come here to find peace in europe instead of welcome them we're we're building uh higher barters and trying to keep them out and all of this shows that there's something really wrong with our societies uh we're supposed to be democracies but these things couldn't happen in a real democracy in a democracy i'm in a conference oh okay call me in a democracy powerful people are supposed to be accountable they're not supposed to be able to lie and cheat and murder millions of people in the legal wars and get away with us real democracies are not capable of cruelty on a mass scale like what we've witnessed in the last 20 years that's why his science is part of this story he was on the side of the rest of us he wanted to fix this science is a journalist journalism is supposed to be a huge part of democracy it's supposed to hold people to account supposed to hold power to account journalism is supposed to expose the lies of the powerful and supposed to prevent things like iraq wars from happening but as we all know journalists in the mainstream media didn't stop the iraq war from happening they didn't expose the lies in actual fact there were cheerleaders for us uh they cheered it on and during the war most journalists in the mainstream media didn't do their job they didn't tell us about the war crimes to help the governments write their own propaganda for us instead during the wars the defense ministries developed the practice of embedded journalism they put journalists in the units with american and british troops most mainstream journalists on the war were just government press releases they were part of the problem the public never saw the reality of what was really happening the government was able to create the impression that by 2010 the wars had been successful and the public was largely apathetic to them but osanj and wiki leaks um straight i mean they changed that and they they had an incredible uh impression and impact on by the revelations they did journalism the way it is supposed to be exposed and lies and holding power to account wiki leaks released thousands of documents on the wars in iraq and afghanistan they showed thousands of war crimes they showed secret assassination squads conducting raids on family homes and slaughtered civilians they showed helicopter gunships opened up and indiscriminately massacred women and children from the air they showed the systematic use of torture by iraqi security forces and the americans turned the blind eye they revealed the location of undisclosed mass graves to show us how many people were really killed in the iraq war they showed us the prisoner records the hundreds of people who've been kidnapped and renditioned and then left in guantanamo bay and loads of them passed through shannon airport which irish government didn't want to know and turned the blind eye to as well um but they showed us that the wars were really like and exposed the lies and propaganda that was coming from the mainstream media the volume of revelations was incredible houses and events these uh in ash it's actually north of by dad where the u.s soldiers conducted a revenge attack on the village forcing dozens of women and children as young as five to get down on their knees inside their house and then shooting them all in the back of the head i mean these soldiers who were now war criminals then called in an airstrike to destroy the evidence i mean how bad i mean when wikileaks documents on this act of savagery was published the majority in the iraq parliament voted to suspend immunity for us troops this eventually forced obama to withdraw us from iraq in 2011 i mean wikileaks did more in 2010 but almost anyone else in western war to stop the war entire to stand up for its victims and to hold the criminals responsible for its accountable the afghanistan and iraqi files changed the whole story of those wars for the first time in years the public could see what was going on and the opposition to the wars began to go up again wouldn't have this without a science you did what janis was supposed to do he acted as people are supposed to do with the democracy that's why he's been punished it's not to do with law if you couldn't do throw these charges at him that i've found other ones it's not about laws but power he stood up the power and everyone saw that so we're trying to crush him and it's not just to punish him personally it's a display it's a show to everyone this is what happened to you if you stand up the power it's one of the reasons the court case lasted at dept ember was so powerful the evidence that was heard showed clearly that it isn't this isn't the case about what science did or didn't do this case is about whether we live in a democracy this is why the ministry was blocking people going into the court is why the mainstream media has ignored this case they don't want to see what this case is really about look at i mean i'll finish with norm chomsky's witness statement i mean i believe this statement is very important historic and document as well what i've been talking about the bigger picture the fact that it has been written at all shows how bad things have become someday children in school will read this statement understand what it was all about all of the mainstream media smears will be forgotten about and everyone see clearly that the science was the victim of a terrible injustice norm chomsky wrote in my view during the science courageously upholding political beliefs that most of us profess to share has performed an enormous service to all the people in the world who treasure the values of freedom and democracy and who therefore demand the right to know what their elected representatives are doing his actions in turn have led him to be treated in a cruel and intolerable manner listen any journalist out there who thinks that who pretends to even have an interest in democracy if you ignore the case of Julian Assange any lip service to democracy is a lot of bollocks thank you so much Megan and that was really powerful and an absolute yes you say you know we have to look at the UK US extradition treaty and and look at it in terms of why it was brought about when and of course i'll never forget the rendition flights and all those things that happen in the post 9 11 climate to to persecute and to target the Muslim community in particular in the UK with a number of policies i'm very conscious of time before we hand over for the next session i'm just going to come back to Jeremy who's been waiting patiently to come back on a few points and then i will hand over for the next session over to you Jeremy i'm silent thank you very much i will be very brief because i did speak at the beginning of the session what we'd faced with is really a sort of two areas of campaigning Julian exposed what the US in particular but other countries as well we're doing all around the world as others have pointed out on torture on extraordinary rendition on so many other things and so it is important that we don't get totally concentrating only on the process but also on the political message because an awful lot of people around the world simply don't understand the importance of julian's work in exposing all of that horrible stuff about foreign policy and what it really means and if it's not exposed effectively then it will be repeated over and over again i'm speaking at the stop the war coalition this afternoon and will obviously continue our cause for support for julian assange secondly i think um hiker's proposal i hope i pronounced the name correctly of a global conversation is a really important one a sort of 24 hour speak out in support of julian from people all around the world be really really valuable because that would help to give it publicity help to give it some real strength and we could ask all of the alternative media channels to run it continuously i'm sure many of them would but also that would in in turn force a lot of the mainstream media to take seriously this issue because i continue to be shocked and appalled at the failure the complete failure of the british media to adequately report what's happened to julian the injustice surrounding it or how wrong the government's position is i mean whilst they have so far said the case is going to be heard again in court they could quite easily say they're simply not going to agree to his removal to the usa and so i think the role of the british media and this has been appalling in particular the failure of the guardian and the bbc to adequately report what's going on here last point is this about international institutions and building stuff up i noticed my friend pak gavern and others were on the call today we're all members of the parliamentary assembly the cast of europe which meets next week virtually and physically in strassberg physically and virtually obviously wherever we happen to be i don't know but pat may have an idea on this if there's some way that we can get it on the agenda next week and at least try and get some statements of support for him because it's a good opportunity to do that and so parliamentarians around the world have a huge role to play but above all it's about making the campaign big open popular and fully understood around the world that julian has told us the truth about what the viciousness of the war on terror was all about thanks so much jeremy i have nothing more to add i think you're absolutely right there in terms of those actions and i think that statement um as well for the for for pace meeting next week i think it's going to be quite important and it's really good that we've got a lot of people here that are members of that body that can that can take that forward and and let's follow that up after this meeting i can see that there are a couple of new hands up and have been in the last few minutes but i'm not going to be able to take them in this session so i'm going to hand over now to a tim Dawson who's going to be leading and chairing the next session i'm sure he will bring you all in in that discussion thank you so much for joining us and i'll still be here and i'll be listening to you all thank you thank you very much asana um sorry i hadn't quite expected the segue to to to work like that but thank you all for still being here um i'll keep my introduction as brief as possible because i think the more voices that we get in are the better my name is tim Dawson i'm a member of the executive of the national union journalists in britland island i've been involved in campaigning around uh julie and saunga's extradition for for some considerable time now um the hope is that in this session we can start to think about how we can take the campaign forward and perhaps how we can broaden it out to think about some of the wider issues of transparency of media freedom and accountability i'm joined by a very distinguished panel and i'll first ask adolfo peres escravel to contribute he's an artist by trade but has been a a central figure in argentinian progressive forces for at least half a century as well as continuing to produce remarkable art and having been a very active member of the artists for saunga's group so adolfo are you with us well perhaps he isn't and we could come to him a little later well perhaps in that case i i could invite seven dag plan um to to make a sorry adolfo adolfo ah well let's let's please make your contribution perhaps he needs to unmute himself ah forgive me i thought we might have lost you please your contribution adolfo we'd love to hear from you adolfo uh can you hear me i'm i'm i'm i'm worrying that perhaps you can't hear me can everybody else hear me yes we can adolfo please talk yes i am speaking in spanish and I just want to make a call to the British Justice, directly, to the British Government as well, about the injustice of having Julian Assange in a maximum security prison and reclaiming his freedom. I think this is fundamental. There is a political persecution of the US government about Julian Assange, when he shows the atrocities committed by the US government in different countries. This was the detonation of the serious situation that is happening today for Julian Assange. I think what we can do is insist on his immediate freedom, first of all for his health, his psychic situation, but also for a state of law. I don't know why the United Nations does not intervene here. I don't know if the US government is not convinced of this, but yes, the United Nations and the Human Rights Commission would have to intervene to demand their immediate freedom. I think this is fundamental, the fact that it is impossible, and it is also a call for attention that the US tries to prevent the freedom of information, the freedom of press, of conditioning those who dare to report the atrocities committed by the US in different countries. The information that Julian Assange gave is an information that helps to understand what is the real situation that we are living in, and we must stop this political persecution to the freedom of press. It is a call for attention where no one is going to want to raise the voice against the injustices committed by the great power like the US. And in this case, well, the British justice had a measure, let's say intelligent, to not give the tradition to the US where it would be condemned to 175 years of prison, that is to say, to condemn it directly to death. So what we can do is to see what can be the policies to follow to achieve their immediate liberation. The other, you know it better than me, I have visited Julian Assange at the Ecuador embassy when he was as a political refugee, and then, unfortunately, the attitude of Lenin Moreno to cancel this and take it to the British government. It is an injustice that continues in these conditions, and we will do all the effort, all the possible, so that the British justice will be released as soon as possible. Is this what I can share with you at this moment? Thank you very much for that. It's a great pleasure to hear from you. There'll be a chance, obviously, to debate these points, quite briefly, when we've heard from our speakers. If I could now call on Sevin Dagdalan, who's the deputy leader of Dailink, the German Left Party in the Bundestag. Again, a longtime supporter of the Assange case, and one from whom I'm keen to hear. Are you here with us, Sevin? Yeah, I am, Tim. Thanks a lot. Thank you. First of all, my name is Sevin Dagdalan. I'm a member of the German Bundestag since 2005, and I'm a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee and the head of the working group of the Foreign Affairs for the Left Party, Dailink in the German Bundestag. And I have met personally Julian Assange in September 2012 as the first MP ever, who has visited him that time in the Ecuadorian embassy. Today he was arrested. I was on the way to London because I had a permission to visit him again. I mean, I was there before as well, but this was a shocking moment as well. So thank you very much for the invitation to speak at the closing panel of this symposium. And I very much hope that our discussion today will generate greater international pressure and together we will secure Julian Assange's release and defend the freedom of the press. I have to say it's up to the new US President Joe Biden to put an end to the persecution of Julian Assange once and for all, and to drop the espionage charges against the journalist and founder of Bigeligs. And Joe Biden should stop following in Donald Trump's footsteps here in Beijing war against the freedom of the press in investigative journalism. And it is important from my point of view to bring the campaign for Julian Assange's freedom to the US now. This is where the key decisions will be taken. And our objective must be to create a broad based movement. We want and need widespread support from the most diverse political spectrums and political parties. Our core message has always been that in defending Julian Assange, we are defending the freedom of press and our freedom itself by defending the freedom of Julian Assange. Julian must be released without delay on health grounds and also for reasons pertaining the rule of law. And with this core belief, we are underscoring our solidarity with Julian and the German Bundestag. With this core belief, we have managed to bring about a sea change in public opinion as well as in politics and the media in the recent years in Germany, placing solidarity with Julian in Germany on a broad based food. So what have we done specifically? What have we achieved and how? It was with this in mind that the left unveiled the sculptures, anything to say, with the artist Davide Dormino in front of the Brandenburg Gate, and opposite to the U.S. Embassy in Berlin in November 2019 in conjunction with a press conference and subsequently a public hearing in the German parliament entitled Media Under Fire, the Campaign Against Wikileaks and Investigative Journalism. UN Special Reporter on Portrait Nils Meltzer, Wikileaks Editor-in-Chief, Christian Hafsand, Reporters Without Borders, the Media Union, and investigative journalists from leading German media outlets who had collaborated with Julian Assange on the Wikileaks revelations were invited to attend as experts. And with Nils Meltzer's reports, we managed on the one hand to place the dire impact of Julian Assange years of isolation on his health, on the agenda in the German parliament for the first time. And besides this, we also emphasize the fundamental importance of the case. Probably you know about him, John Gertz, who worked for the news magazine Der Spiegel at the time, emphasized that if Julian Assange is convicted for these revelations, then John Gertz himself could or indeed should also be put on trial as well as everyone else, for example, the Guardian, the New York Times, A.P.E. and Le Monde, who assessed and reported on the Afghanistan war diaries with a team of Wikileaks. So the hearing in the German parliament was a game changer at the end of 2019. The smear campaign against Julian Assange with the rape allegations fabricated by the Swedish judiciary began to lose traction. Nils Meltzer has done genuinely outstanding work here with these reports. And the hearing paved the way in Germany for a joint declaration of solidarity with Julian Assange by over 130 prominent figures from politics, academics, culture in the run up to the start of the trial in London in February 2020. Initiated in large part by the well-known investigative journalist Günther Waller. The petition included former vice chancellor and minister of foreign affairs, Sigmar Gabriel from the Labour Party, former interior minister Gerhard Baum from the Liberals, former justice minister, from the Social Democrats, as well as the German Pen Center and Nobel Prize winner for literature, Alfred Jelenich, who called for Assange's immediate release from the British Exhibition custody on medical as well as rule of law grounds. And the petition had been published as a full page, as in one of Germany's leading daily newspapers, the Frankfurter Eigemeine Zeitung, as well as in the weekly der Freitag. And together with a joint press conference in Berlin, it gave rise to a broad-based and lasting media response. And with this appeal for solidarity focused on the lowest common denominator, on the question of Assange's humanity and health, it was also possible to enlist celebrities as contacts and interview partners for the media in the long term. And it was also possible to get further points of contact from various political camps and social sectors on board, who were requested to make statements in the course of the extradition process and to evaluate the verdict reached, or who were also invited as speakers at the many, many, many newly formed solidarity groups with Julian Assange in numerous cities all around Germany. And as I have already emphasized, it is really important, in fact, it is actually vital to promote solidarity with Julian on a broad basis and to make this less of a niche issue. In this respect, I'm particularly delighted that there is now a cross-party working group in the German Bundestag called Free Julian Assange, which comprises members from all Democratic parliamentary groups, from conservatives to the left wing. And my colleague from the Greens, the MP and member of this working group, is also attending this symposium and Heike Henze, Doris Acheren and many others, and which has spoken out in public about this working group, about the case time and again, and also endeavoring to work behind the scenes on this issue to find a diplomatic solution in this respect. And the importance of defending freedom of the press and protecting whistleblowers is demonstrated by the many inquiries and requests for support that have since reached out parliamentary working group from other whistleblowers as well. The NATO member and until recently European Union member state, United Kingdom, must not be allowed to get away with the blatant injustice against Julian Assange. Julian's extradition will ultimately be decided at the political level. It's not a judicial thing, only a judicial. It's decided at the political level. That is why I welcome the fact that we as parliamentarians are coming together here around the world to see we can achieve not only nationally, but also globally. I believe that there are five important points here that we can and should focus on. First, we must denounce the arbitrary nature of Julian Assange detention at the British maximum security prison at the international level and level and across the board. We should agree with the human rights organization, Amnesty International's assessment that Julian Assange should not have been detained in the first place during the decision making process on the US expedition request. And in this respect, it is a scandal that despite the verdict reached in January, he is still serving his sentence at Belmarsh instead of being with his family. We must keep on emphasizing the humanitarian aspects of this case. Second, another key priority is for us to work ideally together to ensure that there is a large broad space solidarity movement in the US for securing Julian Assange's release, consisting of stakeholders from politics, the media, art and culture. And I have to say I cannot see why it shouldn't be possible in the land of opportunity to show solidarity for a political prisoner. We have to look for and find supporters in the US among the parliamentarians who will work with us to get the US to drop the lawsuit. And I propose that we travel to the US together and hold talks directly in the region at all conceivable levels. Third, the Grand Council of the Swiss Contour of Geneva, one of our colleagues talked about it, passed a motion in February 2020 calling on the Swiss government to grant Julian Assange a humanitarian visa. I propose that we launch efforts to push for a humanitarian visa in many other cities and countries worldwide. Fourth, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe called on the 47 member states in early 2020, as my colleague André-Hunker said, to push for Julian Assange immediate release and oppose the extradition to the US. I propose, like as Jeremy Corbyn did today, and I'm very glad that he said, I propose that we also bring the case before the Inter-parliamentary Union. And it's an umbrella organization for parliamentarians worldwide to adopt a cross party and non-partisan resolution supporting Julian Assange's release. And the fifth and last proposal is, given that extraditions are always, always a political decision, since they have to be enforced by the government at the end of the day, pressure on politicians and the government in the UK not to extradite, Julian must be kept up. We must therefore canvass even greater support from the UK Parliament or non-partisan. The continued detentions of Julian Assange at the heart of Europe and his ongoing persecution by the Biden administration are nothing less than a disgrace and a legal scandal, and it is impossible to overstate or labour this point too much. Thank you very much. Thank you, Sevim. That's really interesting contribution. I'm really interested in this whole concept of how do we make it a broader campaign. One of the issues I've had campaigning slightly is that there are some people who, when a newcomer comes to the campaign, is, well, I've finally been persuaded of the case of Julian Assange. There are some within the campaign who want to attack them and say, why weren't you here last year? Why weren't you here the year before that? Whereas I think you should be saying, however long it's taking you to come to the case, you're welcome aboard. We need your voice and we need your help. We are very short of time, so I propose a slightly amended to our running order. I've been asked to take Oscar Parielli and Eduardo Valdez, and I propose to take them now and then we'll end with Richard Bergen if that's okay with you colleagues. Oscar, your contribution please, but do please keep it reasonably brief because we do have to finish by three o'clock UK time. So, well, I hope that everyone can understand and translate into English for everyone. I'm going to briefly express my gratitude. First of all, I'd like to thank the invitation from there. With great pleasure, I'm here with Julian Assange. Here I met with a manager of the Argentine ambassador in England, Alicia Castro in 2016, and we visited her in the political asylum in the Ecuadorian embassy in England, and the truth is that I met a different man, a man who surpasses half of the intelligence, at least from what I know of him. And I think he's one of those people who, in the centuries to come, and without a doubt, who is going to make his mind, his intelligence, his ability, his conviction and his fortitude, will leave a mark on the 21st century, what has been his front, and the action that has developed in favor of justice and the truth in the world. I would like to tell you that I am a national senator in Argentina, from my province, Neuquén, and I am obviously part of the front of everyone, the political front that the president of Cristina Kirchner made, and that today she is governing in Argentina with the presidency of Alberto Fernández and the vice-presidency of Cristina Kirchner, so that after four years of a neoliberal, very right-wing government, we have returned to power in Argentina with the difficulties, obviously, that everyone will imagine the product of the four years before this pandemic that we have. The truth is that when you think of Julian Assange, at least us, the Latin Americans, and that we have suffered the atrocities, the detractions, the atrocities, the violations of all kinds by the empires at that time, the English Empire, then the American Empire, we have suffered the support of the coups d'état in our villages in Latin America, and well, everything that we suffered, as we also saw later by the United States, without England and other empires, the detractions to human rights were made with the wars that took place ahead, of Divinam, Camboya, well, that's all we know. I just want to make a suggestion. For me, it seems to me that Julian Assange's case doesn't have to be considered as a battle against freedom of speech, freedom of opinion. For me, it seems to me that we have to say, with all the letters, that we are facing one of the actions of aging in human conduct, more clumsy and more brutal in this century. I think that the situation of Julian Assange is not going to change for what we can do as parliamentarians. I think that simply if we can influence the American public opinion and the English public opinion and clearly show what they are doing with this man, the practical powers and the governments of the United States and England, we are going to be able to change that posture. In that sense, I think it has to be very hard. Here it was mentioned a while ago how it was dismissed by inventing a supposed denunciation of sexual violations or sexual attacks against Julian Assange to destroy it in public opinion. I think we have to say, with all the letters, that today Julian Assange is in the fire, he is burning him alive as he burned himself in the fire at some times in the history of humanity or the guillotine is being applied to him. He is being killed. These are criminals who are today validating the situation of detention that Julian Assange has to insist on in public opinion, precisely in these countries of the United States that his governments, which are proclaimed and functionaries, many times defenders of democracy, institutions, and freedoms are taking forward not only a torture, but a death in the style precisely of those that at some time had to lament the history of humanity by violence and barbarity in which they took him forward. It seems to me that all of us are those who belong to the European parliaments of America, of England, of the United States. What is most possible is to do it. We can do it from our place, from here, from the South, from America, from Argentina. But what we have to put is precisely to be very concrete and very precise in the sense of saying that here he is abusing, he is killing himself, he is torturing himself, he is burning in the war, he is killing himself, a human being, a person, because he has not been subjected to the designs of the economic, political, financial and military power of the world and to achieve that public opinion of those countries begins to see Julian Assange in that way. It seems to me that this is going to be, I think, a way that we can be torsioning the will of those who have to say that there will be some judge, some judge that will execute the orders that impact us from above. For this, well, I want to thank again for the invitation. I thank Alicia, the truth is that it was an experience that I remember every minute of that long conversation that I had with Julian Assange for more than four hours and where I really met a different mind, and I think that because of that, and being the victim of this obligation, to which the powers of the United States and the United States are ultimately. Thank you very much. Oscar, may I interrupt? Thank you very much indeed. Thank you for that contribution. I have been confused by information. Can I ask Richard Bergen to speak now, because I appreciate he has to go to another meeting, which I hadn't realised previously. Richard is the MP for Leeds East in the United Kingdom, and again is a longtime supporter of Julian's with whom I've certainly shared platforms in the past. Richard. Thanks very much, Tim, and you've already heard from me once today, so I won't speak for very long. I just wanted to say some of the things that we have done in the British Parliament before I have to leave. Firstly, we've convened a cross-party working group with politicians from across the political spectrum, and I think this is important. There are a broad range of reasons why some people believe that Julian Assange should not be extradited to the United States. It's important that everyone is brought together. Secondly, we've been raising the issue with parliamentary questions and the parliamentary motion, taking up a range of issues, press freedom, the issue of extradition treaties, etc. And thirdly and finally, from me, we've been trying to get a meeting between Julian Assange and a group of MPs from the UK Parliament. Now we've been treated disgracefully on this, and obviously Julian's been treated disgracefully on this, using bureaucratic obstacles and procedures and treating members of Parliament as if they shouldn't be interested in this matter. And I say this to the UK government. What have you got to hide? Why won't you allow members of Parliament to talk to Julian Assange? Julian Assange is a remand prisoner, charged with no crime and who the courts say should not be extradited. So why can't we as members of Parliament be allowed to meet with him? And with regards to what we do next, I believe that we need to coordinate between parliamentarians in as many countries as possible as we've done today, providing regular information to politicians, coordinating demands and focusing especially on the Biden administration, and whatever influence we have to ensure that Julian Assange is freed. And I can also commit that I will also convene a quarterly international meeting of parliamentarians, lawmakers from around the world on this very important issue. I think it's important that we commit to meeting quarterly until this matter is resolved. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Richard. Let's hope that in three months' time, Julian Assange has actually been released and maybe the focus of that meeting can be something slightly different, but that's actually a very helpful prospect. Okay, well, I think this is going to be our last speaker, but can I invite Eduardo to make his contribution? And I think then we will need to wrap up. You need to unmute yourself, Eduardo. Sí, me escucha. Yes, I can. Bueno, primero, muchas gracias. Muchas gracias por participar de esta actividad. Gracias, Alicia Castro, como a todos los argentinos, que permanentemente nos tiene presente que hay que luchar, luchar y luchar por la libertad de Julian Assange. Me consta que Alicia perfora las fronteras permanentemente para ver cuando suma una voz más poderosa para poder pedirla, para poder lograr la libertad de Julian Assange. Entonces, a mí se me ocurría, nosotros tenemos un grupo que es muy importante en América Latina, que nos solemos reunir periódicamente, en donde hay 13 ex-presidentes y algún presidente actual. Hay cerca de 12 cancilleres de América Latina, hasta el presidente Lula, la presidenta Dilma Rousseff, la vicepresidenta Cristina Kirchner. Acá mismo está el canciller Tallana, hasta el canciller Celso Amorín de Brasil, Adolfo Perez Esquivel participa, Premio Nobel de la Paz activamente. Entonces, a mí se me ocurría una idea que era ver si generábamos un texto en común con la representatividad de los parlamentos globales que hay en este lugar, sobre todo de Europa y con el Parlamento Andino, más el Parlamento del Sur, el Parla Sur y las distintas representaciones. A ver si lo que podemos hacer es un texto que sea conmocionante de muchos dirigentes del mundo con representación que piden la libertad de Julian Assange, primero con un texto y después con un zoom global de todas esas personas y quizás se va generando una movida por la libertad de Julian Assange. Es una idea, la dejo ahí y estamos dispuestas a implementarla, gracias. Thank you very much, Eduardo. In terms of taking particular ideas forward, then probably the kind of the behind-the-scenes organization that has brought this meeting together is probably the way in which to draw some of these threads and to take some of those forwards, perhaps then also reflecting through Richard Bergen's suggestion of quarterly meetings which seems like an excellent one. I do have to close this meeting and I apologize colleagues, I sense that there is more to say and that there are more voices that would like to be heard. However, my instructions are that before we get to three o'clock we have already overrun and we must come to a conclusion. I feel a very undistinguished voice really to be addressing you and to saying the final words but if I could say as a working journalist which is what I am, it would give me enormous heart to know that so many parliamentarians from all over the world take such a critical issue of media freedom so seriously and while I have in dark moments thought of the consequences of Julian Assange being tried in the United States and the impact that that would have on quality journalism all over the world, the fact that so many important parliamentarians are engaged on this issue. Clearly we have not come to resolution, Julian is still in prison but just the thought that so many parliamentarians are engaged on this issue gives me great heart that free speech and free expression has powerful defenders around the world and I am sure if we continue to work together then we can get to the points for which we are all hoping the freedom of Julian Assange and the enshrining all over the world in defences for free speech and free expression. So colleagues, thank you very much indeed. I hope you enjoy whether it's the morning, the afternoon or the middle of the day where you are. Thank you very much for participating and I will call us to order and say at least in London, good afternoon. Thank you.