 Firstly, good afternoon everybody. I hope you're keeping well and thank you to ASB for inviting me and having me for this session today and thank you to our audience out there for connecting to listen to the three of us. It is interesting times and certainly the question of balancing between employees productivity and their well-being comes into play. Where does the fulcrum sit to ensure that there is a balance? At PNB we're working on four key levers. The first is communication. It is absolutely imperative that we have constant clear and very concise communications at all levels and for us here at PNB we have such an unprecedented level of communication all the way from our president and group chief executive officer to his leadership team to the other people managers and amongst the total workforce themselves and I think this is very very key to maintain connectivity in the absence of you know social gatherings but it also comes back to what is the platform that is enabling our staff to work and continue to delivering at that level of efficiency. So then it touches about we have to be technology driven whether we like it or not you know and we're quite lucky that even prior to the MCO there was already the IT tools were being put in place to enable us to work from home. I will grant you the first two or three weeks I was told was quite challenging because not all our data information have been digitized or in a central location but you know what crisis builds efficiency and creativity and my understanding is there is a certain flow in terms of the ways change ways of working that has worked for us we do ensure that there is administrative IT support at all times because you know just when you want it that webcam dies you're not connected and everything conspires against you so you don't want our staff to be frustrated as they continue to deliver the other thing is some part of our population has not be introduced to these tools we cannot just expect them to just swim or drown so there are modules that they can access off-site as we take them on this learning journey and I think that's key what has also helped us we were having we were going towards paperless meetings you know okay guys let's ensure that's in the share point it doesn't need to be sophisticated it has to be accessible and that's key to give an abler but also when you talk about productivity is to ensure that that the goals remain clear and that there are milestone goals that people can ensure that when managers or when the senior management can do their check-in that there's something that they're working towards and this is very important additionally your deliverable sometimes get reprioritized new priorities come up what was the deliverable yesterday has morphed into something else and it's importance so that calls for a lot of adaptability so there must be clarity of goals and as well as the milestones and then that's how we drive efficiency and the dashboard remains that's available the fourth angle that I wanted to speak about was actually goes back to communication but is the other loop is the feedback loop our staff need to be able to feedback or engage back with your leaders project leaders or colleagues because they will need some guidance to continue doing what they're doing they will also need to provide maybe some issues and challenges and what I also find during these times is people come up with ideas because the new challenges that has never been there before so how does management how do colleagues incorporate this so I think those four levers are very key when you position it against productivity clear goals and deliverables communication that has a feedback loop and an abler of a technology so that our people continue to feel empowered and and you know what another thing is that there is a fair amount of challenge to ensure that some of the process bureaucracy is also re-looked and I'm not saying throw away the the prudence of assessing risk or the governance but you know you the process can be improved and I think those are things when you talk about how do we grow I think we can grow as processes becomes far more fluid and that is our new ways of working in terms of how we retain employees productivity during this crisis thank you very much Nolida for the full great point Sabri would you like to say anything to them yes before I go into my my own ideas about what the question is about I'm going to add one small thing to Nolida's responses now technology is good it is enables us to get things that we cannot do normally under this new system but I think one other quality that we must have is empathy because things technology can be rather overwhelming technology is not necessarily national the organization should be a bit more empathetic to understand that not everybody in the organization are comfortable using new technology to reach out and get the work done having said that I think the most important thing we got to do right now to ensure that people are performing and motivated the highest level as usual it's first to be open and honest with our people and I'm sure a lot of people out there are going to go open and honest but of course what I'm saying is that it's not it's not natural for people to be open and honest let me tell you what happened to me some years ago in my previous life I had the great misfortune of being in a situation where the company helicopter went down of short sabah and 11 people passed away in that particular tragedy and we were running around as part of the crisis management team tried to manage inquiries from everybody including the press and after about half an hour or so one of our clients one of our customers one of my staff actually who used to be my client became my staff very quickly he came into the room and he says boss excuse me you guys are talking about something which is really really important to the organization you know and somehow you're not sharing with us what's wrong in the organization we're picking up things from the press new people start calling in so at the point in time we realized we have forgotten to connect to those people who are most important to us the employees themselves so reaching out to people being open and honest about things it's not natural it's not automatic so we need to touch base with everyone in our team and and and ask them what's going on because right now I'm coaching I'm still coaching three or four people despite this lockdown situation we're in right now and I've asked all three of them have you had really meaningful conversations with the bosses to ask you guys how you are doing at this point in time and all three of them the answer is disappointing no so you know it it amplifies the point that while we are caught up with things and we mean well all of us do but somehow to be honest truthful and reaching out to people to be seen to be honest and truthful and to be caring in that process as well it's not automatic to most of us so that's what I would like to encourage leaders to consider to do a bit more of in this point in time about our lives Michelle yes thank you very much Sabri if you don't mind switching on your video as well that would be wonderful so thank you very much both you know empathy is so very very important and I would just like to add a little bit around then and I think that at a time like this when we're feeling so overwhelmed when we're so filled with anxiety with this uncertainty that's going on in the world sometimes too much empathy can also be destructive and dangerous and so you know being a psycho psychotherapist myself I'd like to just maybe explain a little bit about the different types of empathy so this empathy on a neural level so in a cognitive level where you understand what is going on in the situation there's empathy where you put yourself in the other person's shoes and then there's something called compassion and compassion is the ability to understand and feel it but not to be overwhelmed by it so I think it's really really critical as well when we're looking at connecting with our people when we're looking at the emotional responses we have to people to feel that compassion to one to help them but not to be overwhelmed with empathy to the point where we paralyze ourselves so it's very still very important for the leader to remain calm so that's just my two cents well from that point I'm going on to the next question what are some of the most important factors or values you feel organizations cannot hold when trying to balance productivity and employee well-being during times like this so in our leader I understand that PNB's values include competence humility integrity prudence and passion would you say that these values continue to remain relevant at a time like this and if not what other values which you say should come up more prominently that plays to the strength of where we are when we talk about you know when we talk about just now when we're reaching people when they're working from home because our people have such a strong pride of association that I think somehow they will feel very connected and I think this comes back to how I would like to answer these questions in that the values remains very important to us but there are two streams I think that comes about one is trust and I'd like to talk trust within the context of trust integrity and accountability you know when we talked about empathetic leadership it's like you know do as much as we think do the leaders trust the people we also need to understand is will the people trust the leaders that the leaders are going to help them navigate these uncharted waters you know and that's why I throw in credibility and credibility is measured by the actions that the leader has shown in other circumstances of like you said compassion Michelle you know you can be very sympathetic but when you're compassionate and you retain that calmness to help to think about the employees but still chart the organization to me that's a leadership balance that cannot be denied so that goes to me you know in terms of trust and credibility on both parties but I also think there's another element that's very important which is accountability at the end of it it comes to every individual today in the organization we have we are part of an organization that was hired to do something do we still feel that it is our responsible our responsibility to connect with the organization with our colleague and our leaders to ensure that how do we get these things done rather than oh I can't do this you didn't give me enough tools so I think this times calls for two-way relationships so for me that's the trust integrity and accountability and the other one I think that's coming I'm really really strong he falls under the agility when you talk about agility is working from home is really asking us to adopt agility beyond anybody's notion of what could be possible but the other key thing is adaptability you know it's like new things are coming up priorities get changed new solutions may come out so are we going to wait until the MCO is over I don't think we can afford to so I think this is where we talk about you know re-evaluating where are the bureaucracies where is the solution incoming from so you know people talk about the agile organizations my god are we not living in terms of agile and I think when you have agile leadership agile structure then trust comes about right I can't see you but you are delivering so I think those two factors and with the chip with the with the DNA that you talked about P&B values these are the factors that come come to play and I like what Sabri had picked about because somewhere along the line the the four levers that we are defining our ways of working must be all underlined by authentic leadership and very engaged workforce and I think then the productivity comes as a natural output thank you very much Nolidya I think I would also like to add to that that you know I think we had a little conversation before this as well you know about how culture and organizations culture is amplified when in a situation of crisis and if you do not have the right values and the right culture in place you will see during the crisis situation that things can fall apart. Sabri would you like to add something to this about you know self-motivation and self-directed leadership? Thank you Michelle about a year and a half ago I finished a short survey study I will not call it research for a client because they were interested in what motivates the people to perform and what I did was we crafted some questions and it was built around the issue of culture organizational values team leadership the support they get from the team compensation systems and internal motivation I think about if I remember correctly but 85 percent of respondents told us that it does not matter everything else what it drives me to perform at the highest level is what goes on inside of me because a lot of us seem to think that you know if you want good performance you pay you reward these guys and they will perform for you and if you perform well you get rewarded in turn but there are organizations which are not quite like that you know the performers and the non-performing people are there's not not so much difference between how you reward a performer and what a non-performer really gets there is a slight difference but not much there are organizations which are like that I shall not mention what organizations they are but I think you have an idea so we talked to some of these people the high performers in those organizations and the answer is the same that these are performing people and we get crappy bosses some of them do and yet it does not matter and some of them don't get very much difference in terms of compensation at the end of the year and yet they remain high performing people year after year after year and I talked to them every one of them a couple of hundred people at the end of the process and they kept telling me that it does not matter what kind of a boss I have how little or how much I get in terms of my bonus and reward because sometimes we don't get bonuses in our organizations but still I'm driven to perform so I asked them so what what drives you forward what what what is the secret to your energy the answer is intrinsic values that I have within me so the question now is so what can leaders do right now in this situation that we are in right now to work on that my answer to that question would be to reach out like the old AT&T commercial in the 80s the US would say just reach out and touch someone at this point in time it's very important that leaders just pick up the phone and talk to our people not about work if I may but talk about themselves talk about their values talk about their families and ask them how they are doing right now and yes you don't have to do this with everybody in your organization you cannot do that it's not practical but here the 80-20 rule applies focus on those 20 percent of the people who are performing like crazy in your organization but carrying 80 percent of that load talk to them focus on their well-being and their happiness and I promise you this if they are happy and they feel good about it they will perform for you no matter what that is my point thank you sorry yeah so I think I'd just like to add something to that as well and I'm not taking it from the point of view of a leader I'm taking it more from the point of view of an employee and I just like to reach out to anyone who's listening who's an employee out there who feels like you know they're not in a good place now they're down like you know they can't get in your office they don't they no longer know what they're doing they kind of find value in your work I think it's also important for them to dig really really deep and to find that kind of um self leadership that comes from within if you haven't thought about the meaning of the work that you do if you haven't thought about your purpose and why you're doing the work you're doing now is a really good time to actually self-examine and to try and figure that out because as much as anyone else tries to motivate you your boss your your manager you know your colleagues it's all it all comes down to you right now when there's no one looking over your shoulder when there's no one monitoring you when there's no one micromanaging you what are you going to do yeah so yeah that's just my thoughts so coming on to the next question the final one before we open it for the audience question three do you see these changes influencing the future of work and if so how Nolita will start with you again sure um you know it's very interesting when you use the word of future of work actually for me the future of work is now I mean I think the pandemic and unfortunate as it is and that we have to work from home this is the greatest pilot of anything you know everybody thought and talked about working from home as a theory everybody now is experiencing it so for me the future work of of wanting and and I think it differs from organization to organization there have been startups that have been working from home and wondering what the fuss is about you know it's very different to different organizations but from I think the organizations it is it is already going to it's accelerating some of the works that we're doing I think I talked to you about how we were already doing the digitization and digitalization and there is a certain way of doing new things for example I've joined PMB only for a week I had a digital onboarding and coming up the RAM has all been by digital connections that is a new way of work I'm not sure that it has hampered my understanding any less so I think the the future of work is really now so what how is it going to impact it's going to impact policies in terms of flexible working arrangements beyond just working from home you talked about purpose just now in a very multi-generational workforce as we have today the definition of identifying a purpose of what an organization stands for it's already been called to to test for us today right so it's going to impact this so one of the things that is also in my portfolio is culture transformation and it's just like it's now it's it's happening by our flexible working arrangements another one which is coming up from the digital journey is also the knowledge management that we are building within PMB institutionalizing information data that's all going to be accelerated but I also think one of the things that's also going to change is we talked about maybe from a little bit it may sound HRish but when we talk about the EVP of an organization what is the value proposition it really I think no other time has that work-life integration been so challenged as it is today and to Sabri's point is when we use these levers that already elicit the motivation then performance is going to come up what is also interesting though is when we work remote is and we talk about building an empowered and collaborative environment and we have to check in we need to be very cautious we can't check in every five minutes because the poor guy is going to feel that oh this is my back to micromanaging world so there is the pros and cons that we need to to balance and I think balance is really the right title for this because when you're working from home you're really practicing empowerment but yet you want to keep the connectivity so therefore you should call and ask how they are first not how is my project going I do agree with that so I think those are when I talk about how is it going to influence it's definitely going to influence the way we do work in more ways than just one ways of working the governance around how we implement things and just entire value system in an organization thank you Nurlita I agree with you I think you know these kind of situations teach us how to be human you know it'll bring back that human element into our work life you know that integration so you know a lot of times they say just leave your emotions at the door you know don't bring your your emotions to work don't be emotional when you come to the office but you know when it's when times are difficult like this it's the leader who can channel who can find that that ability to connect with others that's the most crucial so bringing a human side back to it I think is really critical Sabri what are your thoughts on this Michelle and I used to think it's I grew up with the father who went to war in the Second World War he picked up a gun he was a teacher but he volunteered to defend the country against the the Japanese onslaught at the point in time and growing up with him I always thought that we are a very fortunate generation those that come after me because we don't have to go through world wars you know but I don't think so anymore because in our lifetime we have had to deal with 9-11 and after 9-11 the world as we used to know then no longer exists and after 9-11 we managed to change ourselves a lot and we we we managed things well enough and then we thought we're going okay and then night and then this COVID thing hits us again so the point is the world is changing faster than we possibly imagine and the only thing that we need to have to be successful or work now and work into the future is the ability to adjust ourselves accordingly the skills to learn new things those are things that are most needed right now and if anything we have stopped taking things for granted anymore when I used to think I'm gonna go to work nine to five and retire the age or whatever whatever and that's good but now I'm seeing that going to work driving to the office going through the morning traffic jam on even on Monday is something which I truly badly miss doing right now I never thought I'd say that and going to the office and having to to sit in the same boardroom meeting rooms which I used to call the hell room for some reasons I actually miss doing that so even Sabri now has stopped taking things for granted if anything going to the future the individual as you say Michelle the humanity the person behind the name behind the behind the employee registration number matters more than before and taking Nolida's point further the EVP no it's not just very HRish it's a very important concept for us to not forget the EVP of an organization is very important very critical to know what is originally mandated for us to do because that guides our decision making into the future but the EVP of a person to me is going to be even more important because you got to wake up every morning and be aware be mindful what is it I'm trying to do in my life right now going to the future knowing very much knowing very well that this life we're enjoying right now ain't gonna be for long because something else gonna come and disrupt life as usual into something different into the future so if anything do not take things for granted and we are going to be even more concerned with the humanity of each other going to the future Michelle thank you very much Sabri um I would give a word to what you just said and when you said it you know things you know you you thought you would work retire um at 53 and then you know spend a lot of years enjoying your life you know probably I don't know riding your big bikes etc but you know these things you know the things we expect to happen the holidays we had planned the children we have and the futures we see for them growing up the the careers we've defined for ourselves all these are thrown into the wind during times of uncertainty and a lot of what we're feeling right now is what we call anticipatory grief meaning we anticipating the death of our dreams in a certain way and so that's why it's really really critical like you say um to then find your your own EVP routine yourself and also to that extent I think to also learn to be able to let go of things so Nolita's point about being adaptable adaptability it's not just organization you know wide it's also as a human being you know the the ability for us to be adaptable the ability for us to I think be willing to let go of control to a certain extent and this letting go of control will also help us will permeate into our work in the sense that we then don't need to micromanage as such we then don't need to you know like you say just ask them first how's the work going instead of how are you in the beginning of a conversation with our staff so if we can let go of a certain amount of control in the way that we want things to happen I think it will open us up to a lot more um adaptability in our lives um so okay so thank you very much um I will summarize some of your questions right after this but first of all let's go and see some of the questions that the audience has brought up for us um there's there are a few good ones here and my co-host Dr. Tan has been um picking them for me one of the ones I think that I've come up here and which is also being talked about in the chat is on employee exits so employee exits will become a norm and in such an environment as this how do you keep employees motivated and in the long run ready to accept the situation should this happen to them or to your colleagues would you like to start Nolita Sabri I guess the exits they are referring to is if it's voluntary or involuntary and I can only speak right now from at least from our organization perspective we are finding that jobs are being recrafted so I don't want to say that these are access people because you are going to find that people's jobs are going to be redefined what we are what we are targeting to do is as we get these efficiencies are then new roles that can be crafted for our organization whether we are growing or not there still needs to do some new tasks before we reach that optimal level of sizing so one of the things that we are finding out is the new skills that the people have to learn and it's quite interesting when we just talk about communication skills right we're now going by work from home so there's um whether video or audio how strong are our communication skills so that's killing up right but there are some jobs that me says that do we really need these jobs as it becomes digitized and digitalized um along the journey what we are hoping to be is that we are able to redeploy them but I think exits are going to be very painful and I know some organizations have already been talking about this and I think those are the involuntary exits that you're talking about but there is some protection during this period and I think organizations it behooves on them to see how can you help upskill them to the jobs that are likely to emanate after this this was already happening as we were adopting digital sort of works that are coming but this is just accelerating um if Michelle I'm not sure whether that's specific enough but that's what I'm talking about that's what I feel about the exits so that will be forthcoming because every every organization is going to really realize what is their optimal resourcing requirements against current deliverables we don't know what the different deliverables are going to be yes exactly and I think it's not just um to do with your employees as well it's to do with even how much floor space do you really need if you know working from home becomes a lot more um you know normal in the new normal then do you even need to rent as much floor space you know so it's absolutely I mean you know we are undertaking spatial um work right now because Medeka 118 so what kind of structures do we do uh right now you know what's the manpower capacity you do is it a one for one or one for 70 you know very interesting questions and I think this would fall under the third point you take how is it going to impact the future of work and um Sabri have you ever had to experience having to let go of someone and if so how can a leader sort of um start to um bring himself into readiness to do such a thing well um in my previous couple of lives I was in Asia for a while quite some time actually um right now I think the exit that that they were going to be seeing is going to be even more so than before what this COVID thing is going to be doing is to amplify everything the the quality goodness of life the the the evil the issues that we have to face is going to be amplified by many many falls so I think right now one good thing that leaders can do for themselves the organizations and for the people who are about to leave the organization we need to do this in the exit interview ask four questions number one what is it that you're really passionate about in your life what might that be number two are you really good at doing it number three do you think people will will want you to do that stuff and number four do you think you're going to get paid by doing those four things the Japanese called the Ikigai by the way so if you could help have a conversation with us and with themselves because granted I've had this conversation with a lot of people I'm coaching right now you cannot derive the answer in one sitting in one conversation you have to have a series of very powerful deep thought-provoking conversations before you get to the answer to those questions because a lot of the time we just do what we do because that's what the boss asks us to do this is the job description asks us to do so we do what we can but if you can find that one thing that this person is really excited about in his book why he is created by God to do kind of thing that one thing once he finds out that what the one thing is nothing else matters and come hell or high water COVID 19 2021 it's not going to stop it you're going to find wonderful ways and means get really creative really innovative to do that that he's really passionate about and get get paid while doing it and you know what chances are what he loves doing is what the world is going to need to be done in the future going forward absolutely I think a lot of high value jobs will appear I mean of course a lot of you know low value jobs will still be maintained you know the workers who are doing all the necessary work at the moment but at the same time a lot of it can be taken over by computers by AI by digitalization so it's really about finding what brings meaning to you in terms of the work you do another question that we have here which comes from Claire is what are some initiatives your respective organizations organizations are doing to help the re-entering of employees post COVID 19 I think this is also critical because once the MCO is lifted or once you know what whichever country you're sitting in restricted movement orders are lifted you'll find that we can't all flock back to the office at the same time so you still need to have a staggered way of maintaining work from home and also staggering it as you start to move your people back into your offices so what if Norlia in your organization do you have a plan going forward for this because in ASB at the moment we sort of have a policy put in place already via COO whereby we will do it bit by bit to ensure that even if there is a chance of someone falling ill from COVID for something not the entire organization will then have to be you know quarantined for example so what about in your situation we are also doing a phase in re-entry the reality of it even if the MCO is lifted there are some measures I think we should still retain I mean I know this is perhaps when we talk about social distancing so how many people are we going to bring back leadership do we bring all the leadership what happens if it recurs so there's going to be a split of critical roles of leadership and location you know so and also as we try and now make working from home which we hope to make it a way of working or is it a way of life depending how you look at it you know then do we really need to bring a hundred percent are there roles that we can already begin the adoption of working from home so we are working on that plan on the on the re-entry we want to strengthen our technology platform so we can ensure that this happens almost seamless like maybe 20 percent continue to work on a rotation basis so you do get the benefit the benefit of working from home is people don't have to go to the traffic jam I know Sabri loves the jam right now but some people can do without it but you know the interesting thing is that we think about working from home and I think we chatted before the the change to our household cannot be undermined we used to spend maybe only six waking hours at home now we're spending 24 hours you know so there is like some people telling me one when it's lifted I want to be the first one back I'm like saying no you can't you know but those are some of those challenges we are making arrangements those are the initiatives who comes back when and then what is the new ways of working wonderful um there's another question here or taught really shared by Cheryl and she says that she's seen this happening in India and in the US leaders who are really getting a huge salary can take a pay cut and provide those less fortunate in keeping your job so they can provide for your family it needs a deal of a great deal of sacrifice but this is what humanity is about and I suppose it's about putting your you know your money where your mouth is so if is it are we looking at a situation whereby maybe big CEO salaries will be cut down going forward whether you know it's time for us to re-evaluate the way we calculate wages the way we pay them is this something organizations should even think about not an orlita or sapi you know I think of remuneration policies in Malaysia are being reviewed I mean you know what the there is said that somewhere along the line there is wage suppression in Malaysia right I mean people who people work overseas and we try and back bring them back to Malaysia you already know the issues that that we have right so I think the wage a recalibration is going to happen across should we be giving up our salary for the good cause I think so many of us I know are already donating to the various charities that they stand for for the community causes so I don't know whether there is any plans for this but I think there are already avenues where personal earnings are going to the good causes from my understanding Sabri any thoughts I think quite a number of our leaders already doing that Michelle I think the prime minister the entire cabinet has already announced that they are giving up half of the salary or something like that and also the the king himself has done that I think yeah it is a step in the right direction for us to be doing that but the question is the quantum of reduction how many percent are we going to be doing that is it going to be a uniform percentile applied to everybody across the levels or is it going to be staggered as we go higher is it going to be be given up more on the salary or less of a salary as we go down the levels I do not know that's open for for discussion but at the very basic level I think we should all be considering be doing that already but the bigger question would be where is this reduction of money going to be diverted into or towards you know I would be I have no problems giving up a bit of my salary but I'll be I am quite concerned I want to see that money being sent to the group of people who are really in need of that money that's all I want to say thank you very much Sabri yes we've had a few questions coming in around the same topic which is does your organization monitor or track the productivity since the implementation of MCO and have you actually seen a drop in efficiency Norlida we do we do track but you know it's not as if we have a project manager that tracks all the thing but because I mentioned a little bit earlier we have defined what our goals are so each person responsible is is checking in to see that there is progress in the projects in the projects varies between long dated deliverables and short term so if you're able to delineate between them then it's easier to do we do track it and fortunately my understanding talking to my colleagues at the leadership team as well we are still on track and hope to do so but you know this is like at this stage should there be challenges as we go ahead I think that's only to be defined but so far not that I think so I think the spirits are still high commitment and I think this is where most organizations are putting that engagement putting that enablers and having to stay a little bit afloat during these difficult times all right thank you very much Lornida and Sabri any closing thoughts that you would like to leave our viewers with we still have a few minutes left before we close this and any thoughts that you think you'd like to say to maybe summarize what you what you think so far Sabri okay can I go yes go for Sabri right I don't have a I'm not going to summarize I think it's yours to do I'm gonna just a quick rundown on some tips I've been thinking about because we talk about leaders and what they do they do right now in this COVID semi-lockdown position we are in right now but what does an employee do working from home how does the person work from home because to be honest it's the first time for me too so I've thought about things and I've got some some pointers I've listed down about seven of them I'm gonna go down the list very quickly number one for those who are new to this working from home thingy you got to work on the mindset that you are working because the thing about being at home is that everything else in the system will tell you if you're home I ain't gonna work so I gotta do some stuff which is more fun ride my motorcycles do whatever makes me happy bake braids whatever you know you're excited doing so you got to work on the mindset that you are working and you got to surround yourself with things that make you work you got to wear clothes that tell your buddy hey I am working today if you have to dress up with a tie on by all means do that what are your working hours make that clear you got to work at 9 to 5 do it 9 to 5 thingy and you know what observe it observe the breaks in between the 15 minutes fresh or the not so fresh you gotta take a puff in do that and give yourself a well-deserved lunch break and if it allowed go out to have lunch a short lunch if you can if you cannot have lunch at home do that but have lunch stick with your normal working routine if you get up in the morning you got a brush or tea shave your beard and and have a cup of coffee and then move into this working mode of thinking do so maintain that routine maintain a dedicated office space kind of if you can do that and number five is attend meetings quote unquote online be seen and be heard kind of and if you have to be guilty of anything right now as charlie says you'd be guilty of over communicating with each other find time to socialize too and finally at the end of the day at the end of a long working day you got to do something to close shop whatever that closing shop process the procedure routine means to you go through all that and and put your laptop in your laptop bag if you have to and then go home that that's how it should be i think and that maintains this thing about working from home thing in a more regularized and and and you know streamlined way for guys like me especially michelle thank you sabri i think also i'd like to add to that that because you have the routine in place and you know what you're working hours are you're then allowed to rest after that sometimes when we mix it up too much you know um even when we're not working we forget to take our leisure times because we're working from home and we think that oh we can work continuously and there's no end to it so yeah so it's also very key when the the minute you put your computer in your computer bag you're actually switching off and you're allowing your brain to relax you're allowing yourself to take that breath and say okay it's the end of the day i can rest now and rest is so so very critical when you know in time when we're so very anxious about everything any closing thoughts nolita i love your tips i really believe we should set boundaries because otherwise we lose this work-life integration and for me i was thinking you know this mco has really given us a pause for reflection of who we are and i i and as corny as it may sound i i want to say that i hope we bring our better selves to our professional organizations and in our personal lives i think that's very important because we've had such an opportunity to make a difference in so many ways we should maximize this um this opportunity no matter how awful the circumstances may be wonderful yes i think being able to be grateful every day practicing gratitude every day is really very critical um okay so just let me summarize a little bit about what we've said so in terms of question one um we'll go back over there uh question one how can organizations continue to maintain if not grow the employees productivity during times of crisis um dr tan has helped me to summarize this while uh we've i've been trying to moderate everything and nolita clear communication ramp up employees support clear goals with milestones to allow for agility and fluid processes are the four key things uh summary being empathetic being open and honest um it's not natural you must make the effort reach out to people and i think it's about the feedback loop that you mentioned as well uh question number two a quick summary what are some of the most important factors values organizations can uphold and trying to balance productivity and employee well-being nolita trust integrity to have a common purpose and connection are the key values why do we do what we do agility is more important than ever and sabri being empathetic again um and um question why you do uh what you do and number three do these changes uh will these changes influence the future of work and you saw how um nolita future of work is now this is a great pilot yes for us to prepare and ourselves avoid micromanaging can check in every five minutes ask how they are first before asking about work and sabri learn new things re-skill don't take things for granted this is the time to test our resiliency so thank you very much both of you and thank you very much to our audience for joining us today um we look forward to seeing you the next time stay tuned as we'll be holding more uh webinar series around the day after tomorrow we will email you and keep you updated please use the survey link in the chat box so the qr code uh code to suggest any topics of interest you might have or to provide us with any feedback and have a great week everybody stay safe stay at home no walking your dogs are going jogging keep healthy and we'll see you again soon thank you very much bye thank you thank you michelle thank you everybody keep safe keep safe