 Good morning. Hello guys, can you hear me? I can hear you, but can you hear me? I can hear you and I can see you, but I don't for some reason, my camera is not working. I have your, Pamela, your camera is not working. Yeah. Oh, there you are. Yeah. Thank you, Jen. Yes, exactly. I'm like, why is my camera not on? I love it when other people do that because I'm always messing with these things. No, I'm like way too much on my plate. You're right. Are you okay, Pamela? Yeah, it's just, you know, too many things going on. I will be okay on April 8th. Paul announced the new cross-directorate. I know, yeah, I read the, yeah, she sounds incredible. Yeah, so. Thank you for the work you've been doing and Jennifer too. I just, thank you. So I'm just, yeah, I'm just tired. Okay, okay. I'm like, what's going on? What's wrong with my camera? Well, I usually do stuff like that and I don't have the excuse of being tired necessarily just. I was 78 yesterday. Oh, congratulations. Thank you. You have to come and have, I have a cup of tea with me. Oh, I would love it. I would love it. Yeah, so. I'm going to make a date, actual, I can get my calendar. Oh, yeah. Okay, well, we have time. We do, we're waiting for other folks. I mean, just make sure that they're not in the attendees. And Marty, I'm hoping that you're doing well. Yeah, I am actually good. Notice everything is empty behind me. I know. Wow. That makes me sad because it means that you're. You're leaving, which I hate. Yeah, I close on my condo on Monday and the move right now is set for the 22nd of April. You're moving closer to kids and stuff. Yeah, yeah. It makes sense, but I'm going to really, it's going to be a big loss. It is going to be huge. Thank you, but yeah, it's really good. My condos three blocks from my daughter's house. Oh, wow. That's great. Yeah. And it's Melrose, if you don't know anything about it, it's a truly walkable city. Oh, wow. Yeah, so my condos right around the corner from a Whole Foods, a CVS, and I'm six blocks from the center of town. Oh, that's perfect. That's perfect. Yeah, it's really, it's considered one of the most walkable cities in America. Wow. I just got really lucky that I found a nice condo. Wow. Yeah, really. So Pat, what does tomorrow look like for you? Tomorrow is Wednesday. Yeah. I could meet you for coffee in the morning. I have to be in East Hampton at 1.45, which means leaving around 1-ish. OK. Would you like to meet at 11? Yeah, that would be great. Right. 11 o'clock. Where shall we have coffee? Well, I'm always at the Amherst coffee, but I'm willing to go any place that you would like. Oh, that's fine. That's OK. Oh, thank you. Yeah, that would be great. Yeah. We lost Myra. I don't know. And there's no one in the attendees. She was here and then disappeared. I did hear from Sarah that she was not going to be able, no, no, not Sarah. I did hear from Elise that she was not going to be able to join us, but I haven't heard from anyone else. There is a fourth person. Let me see. In the attendees, it's Sarah. And let me bring her over. Taking a little bit. OK, she's going to be. And I will see if I can see any. I'm going from one meeting to the next today. So I'll check in my email to see if anybody has emailed me that they were. Hey, there she is. Hey, Sarah. Good morning. Good morning. I don't see any emails from anyone else. I'm not sure where everyone else is. You know, Pamela. Yes. Every month, we get a link. And I did not get it. So I just saw the meeting ID number on the agenda. And that's how I zoomed in. Right. So I wonder if. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. So I wonder if the others are having the same struggle I had this morning. So I emailed you yesterday because I noticed that something bounced back from your account to make sure to see if you had gotten materials. But the Marty and Pat, did you all receive emails with the invites? No. I actually went off of yours this morning. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm not sure. I don't see any additional emails from anyone else. And, Sarah, yours was the I noticed yesterday when I double checked, yours had bounced back. So there's Myra. There's Myra. I don't know if I'm. We hear you. Hi, Myra. You do hear me? Yeah, we do. Yet another Zoom disaster. Everything was fine until I heard you come on before. Oh, wait, no, it's in my earphones now. I'm just going to leave it. Do you hear me now? Yes. Yes. And I hear you and I quit. I'm not playing games with this anymore. I give up. OK. Right. Do we have a quorum? We do not. There are three of us. Oh, we have. Yes, you do. There are three, right? How many on the committee? We need one more, yeah. I know that Elise is not going to be able to join, but I did not hear from James, Ian, or Cody. Well, maybe they'll show up. Maybe they have Zoom issues just like me. Yeah. Yeah. I showed up without my camera on and was panicking because I didn't know what I had done. So. And Jennifer pushed one little button and then there she was. Well, that's very cool. Good that Jennifer knows what to do. Thank God for giving me like Jennifer goes on. I've Jennifer come to my house. I'm going to take a minute because actually I'm supposed to not even be in the room with you guys. I'm supposed to be in a tent and not, you know, an attendee, not a panelist, but you guys let me in. Thank you. But I really want to thank you for signing on to the ceasefire resolution. It's much appreciated. Ah, great, good. Well, we haven't officially started yet because I haven't read all the legalese language, although we are recording. Oh, we're recording, but we don't even have enough people. We don't have a quorum. Well, we can still meet without the quorum, but we cannot make any decisions. That's what I know. Isn't that what I think, too? Yeah. So we can still continue. We can't make any decision. Well, maybe we should just start the meeting because we actually have a lot to do. And for me, opening up the thing that says what we're supposed to do is going to be pretty impossible right this minute. Right. So do you want to read the? Yeah, I can read the legal language. All right. The Disability Access Advisory Committee is meeting virtually pursuant to chapter 20 of the Acts of 2021. This meeting is being conducted via remote means. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via Zoom or by telephone. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. At present, this moment, the committee does not have a quorum, so they will just be engaging in discussion. And if at such time it obtains a quorum, it will be able to act on it. And there we go. There's a quorum. Yep, we have one. Yeah. Excellent. Great. So first is your roll call. Myra Roth, I am here. Anybody else want to announce? And they're in here. Marty Smith here. Ian Redwalt here. Sorry for being late. Oh, it's perfect. You made us have a quorum, which is perfect. Perfect, I mean. Yeah. So does anyone have any announcements? Myra, this is Ian. Just a follow-up announcement from last month. I wrote the letter that we had talked about of the ceasefire resolution, and we submitted it to the town council. Yep, thank you for doing that. And I thank you also, Ian. Thank you very much for all of you for signing off. And now I'll be quiet. All right, well, thank you for doing that, Ian. I actually have a question. Yeah. So I'm moving on the 22nd of April. Oh, wow. And I will, so I'll be here for the next meeting. Am I allowed to work for Melrose until you find a replacement for me? I believe you are allowed to work for Melrose as long as you continue to be a registered voter in Amherst. So when you change your voter registration to Melrose, you'll no longer be a resident of Amherst. But I believe until you do that, you are able to be a member of the DAAC. It would just be like you had a second home, right? So you could have a second home. OK. There'll be a resident of Amherst. And as soon as you change your voter registration, then you will no longer be a resident of Amherst. Am I right, Pamela? I know that residency is a requirement. And I also know that we have residents who have served on boards, who have second homes, and who have been remote. So I think the deciding factor is your residency. Right. OK. I think you registered. My house is going on the market probably in three weeks. So I'll probably still own it until possibly June at the latest. So and Jim is here and I'm promoting him to a panelist. So you're in. Oh, OK. So what we said last month in your absence, first of all, we're terribly sorry for the loss of your husband. And second of all, we're terribly sorry that you're going to leave us because you're an incredibly important person on this committee. We couldn't do anything that we do sometimes without you. So. Oh, thank you. I will write a letter of resignation to Brockhamon, to Paul. And is it OK if I suggest that they find another architect? I think this board desperately needs an architect on it. I agree. So I will make that recommendation. I don't know whether they'll pay attention to it. It took me forever to get on this board. So. Do you know anyone who might want to be on it? Can't be an architect who's working because there's too many conflicts, right, potentially? Yeah, no, I don't. I don't agree with that. You don't agree with that. No, if if they can, you know, they might have to. I'm sorry, I'm butting in. No, it's OK. They can be a working architect. If something came before DASC that they were involved in, they would recuse themselves. They would not be able, you know, to participate in the discussion or stuff. But I don't see we're actually being employed as an architect as in the way. And I agree with with Council. Councilor D'Angelo is that I think you could have a working architect. And I'm based on the last few years, I would say that it's likely that the opportunities are that they would recuse themselves would be, you know, just a few times a year. And so during the other times, you would have that expertise, which I think is much needed. And they could participate in discussions, but they could not participate in the vote so that you could still have the benefit of some of the information, perhaps, but recuse themselves from the vote. Well, I could just see it with somebody bringing a project. And there isn't anybody on the committee who's going to say, hey, you didn't do that right. That's my concern, because that's something that Marty brings to us. And she knows the chapters and the verses, and she can tell them why they didn't do it right. And I don't think too many people are going to police themselves that way. I mean, we've had architects come to this board who thought it was perfectly OK to use granite strips on the top of steps. I mean, they don't often know what they're doing. They don't always know. Let's put it that way. Yeah, I agree. So we could never replace you, Marty, but we will try. You will ask me. Thank you. Can we communicate with you, Marty, when we're in dire straits and after I'm finished? Could you do that? I will be a consultant, if you want. That sounds good, actually. Every second Tuesday. Jim, say that again, please. No, I just said, with dire straits, like every second Tuesday. Yeah. No, that's great. If you want to be a community member consultant, if you come to the meeting, that's awesome. OK. Yeah, that would be great. I feel much better now. OK. All right. The first, oh, do we have any community people here? We do not have anyone for the general public comment. OK. So a couple months ago, Steren raised a very important question to which we did not really have an answer, which is, in the event of an emergency, which at the time was in the flavor of weather emergency. But it could be any kind of, it could be summer weather emergencies. It could have to do with blood. It could have to do with tornado warnings. We've certainly had them. It could have to do with, let's say, there was an unsafe situation in her neighborhood, something like that could be a chemical spill. It could be anything. What is it? And in what way or who knows about people who cannot necessarily evacuate themselves or who can't necessarily get out on their own on the drop of a dime? So how do we, Pamela, do you have any ideas about who should keep such a list of people? And obviously, it would have to be a voluntary list. But it's a very good question. What would somebody do if they needed emergency assistance? So there is a team in the town that serves as the emergency management team. I think it's spearheaded by Chief Nelson. And he would coordinate with the other branches of law enforcement. So I could pose that question to him. But I don't know the answer directly. OK, Sarah, and you brought this up. So can you enlighten us to exactly what you were thinking? That might be bigger than what I brought up. Yeah, I forgot the date of that snowstorm we had. And it was on a weekend. And I need assistance to get up in and out of bed. So I and the storm got stronger in the afternoon. And then there was no way. I mean, I had the driveway plowed in the morning. But since then, there was lots of accumulation during the daytime. And then nobody was coming, no traffic, nothing. And then I started worrying about how am I going to tell my PCA that she can come. And my road is open and my driveway is plowed. So that was an issue. And I had no way of reaching anyone because it was either a Sunday or a Saturday. It was a weekend. And then I was able to get hold of Gilford's personal mobile number, cell number. And I called him in desperation. And he says, don't worry, I'll take care of it. And in about an hour, they plowed my road. And then my neighbor, which is a snow blower, he saw me in that situation. He knows my condition. And he came and snowblowed my driveway. So I said, you know, if the driveway is open, if the street is not plowed, there's a little hill in my street. And there's no way you could reach for help. And then that's when I said, I should bring this up to the AAC. They should be in number. And because the road was not plowed since morning. And they have to, or at least we need to know the policy. Do they just leave it to say, well, this is nature? You deal with it? Kind of a thing? So we need a way. There has to be a number that people who need help like that and other kinds of help can call that they know is going to be answered. So I mean, you could always have called the fire department even on a weekend. But you'd have to know to do that. That would have to be the instruction. Or you could always call the police on the weekend. That's right. The fire department, I mean, if you need ambulance or something, medical assistance, that's another thing. They'll find a way, I guess, to come and get you. But in a case like that, you need immediate attention to what's going on in your street. Or it could be flooding. Or it could be tree has fallen. And it needs to be removed in your street. That can happen too. So I thought there should be a weekend or business hours contact. Anybody have any idea? I sort of do. I would think that you would just call 911. I mean, that's the only line that's got somebody there 24-7. And they handle other calls other than just fire and police. I mean, if I had a tree come down, I'd call 911 still. You would, OK. Yeah. I mean, I know at the university, you call the main number in an emergency, if it's not fire. But there's somebody there all the time. But I don't think the town has any other manned dispatch. And that's really what you're looking for is a dispatch center. And it would seem that 911 would be the one that you would call. So I guess maybe what I was thinking of maybe another number for public works after hours call this number in case of emergency. But you have to staff that. That has to be a staff number. You have to pay somebody to do that. So that's hiring at least two more people to cover that. So it would seem like 911 would be where you'd want to call. So in other words, what you're saying that we can't forget about that. I mean, 911 will take care of you. They can get, I'm sure that there are emergency numbers for different people at DPW. But to have a general number that people call, you'd have to have that staff. That's the problem. You'd have to have somebody there all the time. So 911, the dispatch at 911, is the one that would then make the calls, make the connections to whoever's on call. Does that make sense? Yeah. But it seems like I think what I would be worried about was that the 911 dispatcher who answers would say or would think this isn't the kind of emergency that I deal with. I deal with that. That's training. That's just training. That is policy and training. So there would have to be. That's right. Policy and training to let them know that sometimes they're going to get calls that have to do with my PCA cannot get to me because the road needs to be plowed or because there's a tree down in front of my house or because I am disabled. I cannot evacuate or I cannot go to a safe place in this tornado warning because my house, I can't get into an interior bathroom, blah, blah, blah. I don't have one, right? Or something like that. Yeah. It sounds like what we should do is talk to the individual who is the administrator overseer for the 911 line and get a sense of how they handle these calls now and what kind of training would be helpful and move on from there. Yep. Yeah. OK, so I don't know who's in charge of the 911 dispatch. So that's currently Mike Curtin. But may I suggest that we actually, prior to contacting him, that I asked about the emergency management plan for the town because there may already be an answer to the question that's posed before. OK. Yeah. OK. Myra, can I make one other suggestion? There's also the CRES committee or line that I don't know if they would have resources or have that, that we could include that as part of their policies for training answering calls that come into CRES. What's their charge panel? So CRES, just so that everybody knows, community responders for equity, safety, and services. They're designed to be the third branch of public safety. And they were currently responding to a number of different types of calls. So wellness checks, assist citizens, assist businesses. They've worked with seniors here in the senior center and Clark. The goal is for them to move more into the public safety rain. So I mean, I certainly think that they could be listed. And in the case of an emergency, they would more than likely say, yes, we'll do what we can to assist. But I think they too would also need, like in the case of a tree coming down, they would be, thank you for the call, we would be calling DPW. They don't have equipment. So I think the best place to start is to find out what the current emergency management system is in place. And then we can go from there. So I can ask Chief Nelson, who I believe is in charge of the emergency management plan, about that. OK. All right. You could invite him to a meeting if he feels like he wants to tell us anything, or you could just bring a report. However, it works better for you and him. Sure. I've been working very closely with him for the last six months because he's part of the Crest interim leadership team. I just saw him this morning. So I am happy to invite him to the next meeting. OK, cool. Excellent. All right. Good. Thank you. OK. So that's a good beginning, Sharon. Right? Yes, I think so. All right. The next old business has to do with what? No, new business. It's about the MOD grant, right? Right. That's correct. New business MOD grant. So do you know if anyone in the town, that's the grant we did not get last year when we tried to get the one for months in library, correct? I do believe that's correct. I don't have any additional information about the MOD grant. I had there were a number of questions that came up at the last meeting, and I did reach out to different colleagues in the various departments. But I did not get a response about the new grant application. So I think it was just recently released. And so I believe it's there. They're probably just beginning to work on it. OK. I wonder if anybody ever found out why. I mean, I don't know enough about this. But if you don't get a grant, can you find out why you didn't get it, or somehow, and then reapply for it? I mean, do they ever do that? Normally, we got those grants in the last few years. So the response, oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. The response that I received was that there were, as I'm sure is the case every year, a lot of applicants for the grant. But they did not have a more specific reason. They weren't told like, oh, because your grant didn't include X, we turned it down. So I was just told that the process was very competitive. Well, it always is. But somehow, we always got them. We usually got them. And so this was a new person writing the grant. Was the planner, right? Yeah, Rob, Rob. It's Rob Wachella, who was the new author. Right. Right. And I don't know if he has experience with that. And I don't know if he needs any help with the next one. But I want to make sure that the town puts its best look forward to get these things. Because somehow, they are really competitive for sure. And you're not going to get them all. And one grant is not an indicator of anything. But I know that he is new. So I want to make sure that somebody is paying attention to the way that we write the second one, whatever they want. So does anyone else have anything to say about that? I forgot, what did we request the funds for? Say that again, please. What did we request to do with that money we were going to get from MOD? That one was to make the south door of Munson Library accessible. You know how right now you can't go out? Well, you can't go out because you just walked down a step onto the grass. So they were going to make that exit really for the polling place. They were going to make it accessible to the driveway and to the street. I think that's the way I recall it. But right now, if you are not walking on two feet, you can't get out that door. Right, right, right. I totally forgot what it was going to be used for. So. So I would just say in Rob's defense, I mean, he is new, but his work is being supervised by Chris. So I think he probably has good support. And she was present when they made the presentation about the grant application. So yeah. All right, well, hopefully next month they will have some sense of what they would like to apply for. Does anyone on this committee have any suggestions as to what they should think about applying for, knowing that we're not going to be able to fix Groff Park, or I mean, fix Mill River Park or anything like that? I mean, it's not going to be big enough for that. Is there a downside to going for the library again? I don't know. That was what I wondered. I don't know. And so that's why it would be sort of cool to find out why we didn't get it. Do they not think it's important enough? Or did they, you know, I don't know. But it's a voting place, right? You would think that they should make it accessible to all. Whether from the front door or side door. Well, not to add to Pamela's workload or anything like that. But maybe she could reach out to Chris and see whether there was any sense that this was just a bad project that, you know, it wasn't attractive to the state or whether it was just a matter of the numbers. And that wouldn't be any problem if we're applying again. Because it does seem like an important issue to folks. Just going at it. So I'm happy to reach out to Chris. I did reach out to her to get an explanation about the grant. But I didn't. I don't think that they knew at that time, but I can reach out to her again and ask about not only this past grant cycle, but what their intentions are for the next cycle. And I suppose we could write to Jeff Dugan. And we could ask him. I mean, you know, do they do they have this preference for stoplights and streets and stuff? Or, you know, like, what do they like to fund? Because we could come up with a bunch of things if we knew what they like to fund. You know, I would just hate to read submitted if it's just not the kind of thing that they would like to do. Although I think it is a pretty important project. Because it's the accessibility is pretty limited there. Yeah, very much. OK, all right. So more to be continued. All right. So then the old business, the first thing might have to do with is that did we list? It's the town hall steps variance. Right. OK. So last month, we talked about the steps about the fact that we never received notification that a variance had been requested to build the steps, to redo the steps on the front of town hall. And we never received notification that any kind of variance was approved. We were sort of, we just didn't know. And then all of a sudden, the project was sort of almost done. And then we said, wait a minute, why didn't we even know? Marty said they needed a variance for this. And we didn't know. I mean, the rest of us didn't realize that. Because we thought they think they still, they already have an accessible entrance. But apparently they needed a variance anyway. And there was one applied for, and we were not told. And we found out from Jeff Dugan, who I wrote to, we found out the date of the variance approval, which was March 27 of last year. And we found out that Chris Brestrup had that the variance was in her possession, the request was in her possession in February. We never heard about it. So I guess some of us weren't too happy. And then I guess there is a time limitation on when you can appeal, which has come and gone, plus the project is almost finished or is finished. And last month, Jim said, very intelligently, well, you're not going to be able to roll back the clock. But what are we going to do from here? So we wrote to Jeff Dugan. We asked him if he would come out and give us some ideas about the accessibility of Town Hall. He said he probably would be willing to do that. And so I just wanted the committee to know for Marty and I, Matt, Marty, you can talk about this. Before I go further with it. OK, I think the thing that bothers me most about this whole situation is that the affidavit at the end of the application, I can't remember who signed it in the town. But it's an affidavit. The buckleman signed it. No, he didn't. Oh, I lost, he did. No, I think it was Ron Mora who signed it. And I need to look it up. I was just going to look it up right now. But the last page is a legal affidavit saying that they submitted it to Stavros, to our committee, and to the building inspector. And the person they submitted it to is Chris Brestra. And she's supposedly accepted it for our committee, which in my feeling is a conflict of interest, number one, because she supervises the people that wrote and applied for the variance. And it never came to us. And she does not speak for us. Yeah, absolutely. So there's a problem here. And in that statement, in the application, they state that the entrance to town hall is accessible. So effectively, they've submitted an affidavit saying that the town hall is accessible when it isn't. And they got the variance on the, and I'm going to put that in the air quotes, that town hall is accessible. So I have a problem with that professionally, as an architect. And we should have a problem with it as a resident of Amherst, our committee. Yeah, well, we should have a problem with it as this committee. Yeah. Christine Brestrup at the time, that was already here. Didn't she, Christine Brestrup is not the head of the committee. It should have gone to Pamela. That's right. Christine knew that. Actually, the letter that I got from Jeff Dugan said it was sent to Christine Brestrup, who is the liaison to the Disability Access Committee. That's what he believed. Yeah. And if you look at the application and you didn't know the situation, you'd say, yeah. I mean, if I just looked at that application on face value and didn't know the underlying facts, I would say the same thing. Professionally, I just find this totally untenable. So as Jim suggested, where do we go from here? We cannot. It's too late. And do we want to talk about it? It's not too late. We could present to the MAAB that this was falsely, if we want to go that route, it was falsely granted. You can always go back and undo it. Pat, what do you say? I think that what I raised my hand, because this is an incredibly important issue, and I would love to have some write-up from the committee, and I would be willing to take it to Paul Bachman to present. It's not something I would want to present in a council meeting, but so that he's aware of what happens, and I would also appeal it. Did you see the letter that I wrote that Marty has seen? That has all this information in it about his blood and blood and, OK, no, I did not. I apologize. I have not. Oh, maybe you're not on the mailing list. I probably am. I've been a little overwhelmed. But can you resend that to me? Yeah. Now, the original ending that I had on it was essentially we're going to appeal. I'm just, it was a letter to let the town know we're going to appeal. And then when I got to think from Jeff Dugan, that said it was too late to appeal, I just thought it was important for us to let the town know and to let the MAAB know that they had approved it under false pretenses. I think you're right on about that. So which should we do? And I will change the end of the letter if you want to. I mean, could anyone read the letter I wrote? It's one of the attachments. The committee has to decide what you want to do. And if there's something I should follow through on, I will. Right. If I could step back, like one or two feet or something like that, which I don't like to do. But in this case, I mean, that accessible entrance hasn't been accessible from day one. But this goes back a long time. I mean, the town has its ADA compliance plans. These have been passed on and approved and all these other things, I think would be very, very difficult to have any kind of successful appeal to the AAB simply because we've let this somebody has let the issue lie fallow for a long, long time. I do think we absolutely need to tackle that. If Jeff Dugan can't come out, then I don't know. We dig into our pockets or something and get a local specialist, somebody from the AAB or somebody like Liv Wyatt from Q-Riddle to go through and really say, this doesn't work. This doesn't work. And get that down on paper. The other thing, though, is that this is a terrible situation. Chris should not have done this and needs to be held to account for that. I don't think it's going to change. Now, a year from now, we're not going to have an accessible entrance just because we did that. We need to take more steps. But Chris definitely needs to be held to account. That's my take. I want to say one more thing. The resolution from the MAAB is to put a sign that says the accessible entrance is on the side. We're going to be sending people to a dangerous situation. You can't even get to there from those steps. The whole thing's silly. And it's all based on a false premise. Yeah, but at the same time, you can't take your wheelchair down that alley once you've parked down the column. I know. That's what I'm saying. The whole thing is. I mean, it's dangerous all the way around. And it always has to. Yep. Yeah. The fact, I like your lay fallow line, Jim, because that's true. And it's been going on for a long time that this committee and various iterations just let it be. So how could it be now? Well, it is now because to tell you the truth, I never really realized how inaccessible the entrance was. I don't use a wheelchair. And I didn't know the law. And I didn't know about what you have to do about topography of sidewalks. But Marty knows. And that's why it came. For me anyway, that's why it came front and center, because there was information that I really didn't know. Obviously, Sarah knew it. Obviously, Jim knew it. Obviously, Cody knew it. But the rest of us might not have known it in a very direct way. So the question is, where do you want to go from here with this? Tell Paul Backelman what happened for sure. Write a letter that sets the situation out. I already did that. I can tweak it and make sure that it's clear. But what should be our next step? Jeff Duggan will come. We just have to arrange that. But what should we appeal beyond the time that we are supposed to be able to appeal? I mean, what should we do? Pat and I met with Paul Backelman and Christine Brestrup. I don't know how long ago was that at? I know you're eating your lunch. Laurie, I don't remember. It was back, I want to say last spring? It could have been, yes, probably. So it was last spring. And the only reason we met was to talk about how inaccessible it was. And the reason that occurred was because Sarah said she couldn't use that entrance. So I went and took my level and measured all of the surfaces to get into that entrance. And then I drew it up and gave them a copy to show them why it wasn't accessible. And Pat and I presented it. And Paul Backelman said, oh yeah, we know it's not accessible. So am I presenting that right, Pat? I think so. So he probably was a little bit more, didn't say it outright. Yeah, he inferred that they knew it. And then it wasn't going to get fixed any time soon. There was no budget for it. Yeah, yeah, that's always the excuse. Do you have any way to find out when that meeting was? Because the barriers was applied for in March, saying that it was an accessible entrance. Because we actually did talk about the front steps. So it must have been before those steps were. Do either of you have a calendar that might have it written in it? I'm looking right now. I'd have to go find my last year's calendar, which I, on paper, that I still think I still have, but I can check. But I will have to disappear for a minute. I'll be back. The other person who might know. How do you look and see if I can do it? Angela Mills would know too, right? Yeah, if they keep records up that far back, I don't know, Martin. I would think that they would have to. Did you find it, Marty? I think the real purpose of that meeting was the North Common ADA issues parking. And that was Thursday, February 16. Wow. Oh. And then there was a meeting that I had with Paul, which was around the same time. Maybe that. No, you walked around with those folks, right? You went outside and walked. The purpose was for parking. And that February 16 was, I believe, maybe the meeting that we had in Paul's office with you and me to talk about the accessible streetlight. It was right. Let me look and see if there's another meeting. But I know you went out on a walk with them. Actually, we didn't actually go out. Oh, I thought, OK. That's the only town hall meeting I have. OK. OK. Well, so somehow we have to find out when that meeting was, whether it was before or after the application filing or the approval, it was right around then. And if it was after the approval, I don't know. It just doesn't feel good. And I don't know what to do about it. Because if they knew it was inaccessible, they didn't do anything about it then. There is no money to fix that entrance. That I understand. But let's be honest about it. Let's be honest about it. And they need a plan to make an accessible entrance. Great. Yeah, absolutely. And also, there is the communication problem, too. You know, how could Chris take that variance and be the person in between representing DAAC? We had no eye. I mean, that's a big object. I don't know that she did do that. We don't know that she represented that she represented. Too many representatives. But she got the response in the name of DAAC. No. No? Because she did. On the affidavit, it's sent to her. That's part of the affidavit. It's sent to DAAC. I don't know. It was sent to Chris as a liaison to the DAAC. That's what Jeff Duggan thought, yes. Yes. So when they requested that, they must have said something that the DAAC approves this. Did they say that? No, the process is that the parties that are required by law to receive a copy of the variance. So by law, the variance has to be submitted to Stavros, the DAAC, and the building inspector. And on the affidavit, you have to say how and when that was delivered. And so it was, quote unquote, delivered to Christine Brestrup as liaison to the DAAC. But Christine never presented it to the DAAC. Once that is delivered, you have 10 days, 10 physical days, not two weeks, but 10 physical days to respond to the MAAB if you do not approve it. That's why we have, every once in a while, we have these special meetings, because we have very limited time to respond to the issues. And so we've never given that chance. Yeah. My question is, when they requested that variance, the town requested that variance, when other agencies request a variance, they always bring it up to our committee. And we look at it and we say, oh, we support that. I think it's a good idea. Or we say, no, it's not really good. What can we do? And we come up with ideas. We do it with Amherst College, with UMass. And I remember doing with many things. But town, where we made aware of this challenge, they were having, and they were going to request variance, they never did. I know, and they were required by law. That's the thing. And they have. Pamela, did Christine ever talk to you about this? No, I don't recall her bringing this to my attention. I think I've been fairly good about when there's been a variance request, getting it out to the committee and trying to schedule a time trial to meet. But I don't recall this one coming before me. Yeah. OK. And you should have gotten a copy of it. Yeah. Because that's required, but that's the affidavit, is that you have given a copy to these different agencies. OK, so other than informing Paul Backelman, as Pat suggests, what should our next steps be? Well, I think number one is we need to also include accessible information about the process that they did not follow. I think I would attack this through the process because we know it's not going to get fixed today. But I think the process is the issue at this point. Well, it's one of them. Yeah, it's one of them. There's a process issue. And then there is an ultimate product issue, which we want them to address. Well, if we go forwards to the MAAB with this, the MAAB can turn around and say, town of Amherst, you have one year to fix this. If you go to the Department of Justice, the DOJ, through the ADA, they can do the same thing. I mean, these are pretty drastic moves, but that is one of the results. The town can be forced to do this. OK, so the question then I think maybe is do we want to be nice and follow a path where Pat takes this to Paul Backelman and the town council and say, this is what happened and we're very upset and this really needs to be fixed and see what the town's response is and then pursue an MAAB slash DOJ complaint. Or do we jump the town process and just say, I was sick of this stuff and we just go to AAB and DOJ. Or there's a third one, which is get Jeff Dugan in here to do some kind of analysis from his perspective as the accessibility specialist from MOD that for him to come up with some kind of a suggestion for what the town might do. Or can they be done simultaneously? I like the idea of Jeff Dugan coming in. And if we can tell him how the process was circumvented, he may be a good sort of the bad cop? Yeah. Well, I kind of want to choose the option of being nice to town, but then tell them the reasons. I mean, we can request Jeff Dugan to come and evaluate it and also another thing I'd like to include that why we're pushing for it because the accessible entrance is really not accessible. That's it. So we should say why we're not really doing it just to have another accessible entrance. But the present one is a life danger. You know, when you park in the back parking place and you're trying to get to the accessible entrance, you every time I have to do that, luckily I don't do it on my own because I'm scared to do it. And then I wish that there is nobody coming and running over you because it's a short way and they just rush into that place, you know, coming from Main Street and it's a risk. So if there were no traffic there, you could physically do it? If I have a find a place at the back of the building. And if I can park and if there is a clear path for me that I can go through without the risk of running over, I can do it. OK, it's not a good service. Yeah, it's not very good. There are many things, but technically the slope and everything is better than going from up in front of the tunnel, going down the steep hill where with the manual chair you can slide and anything can happen. You know, it's very steep. So you have to have somebody behind you. And then, but other way from the parking lot at the back and if they maybe put some safeguards like railing or something and it will make it a smooth path for people in a wheelchair rather than take their chances. Like that thing next to the CVS lot entrance. CVS lot entrance. You know, there is like a sidewalk there. That used to just be a street, the same thing. And they made they took some of it and made that sidewalk with a little railing. Yeah, to keep the cars. Is that the kind of is that what you're thinking about something like that? That's what just comes to my mind. But I mean, I have to I can't visualize because that road is pretty narrow. I think it's only one way traffic. Yeah, I don't know. But, you know, like at the back of that building, they have their charging station there and it takes space and you see cars, which is wonderful, wonderful. Not that I don't support it, but in a very tight space there. Why does it have to be there? When we, many of us with disabilities are faced struggling to get into the town hall. So in a way, they kind of make it difficult. So it discourages. That's how I am personally. If I get too difficult, I hassle and I say, well, I'll try to find some some other way to do it or something. You know, but Jim, what's your experience with that? Is she saying things that pertain to you or is your experience different? It's dangerous. Sometimes the surface is not smooth. You do have to worry about cars coming in. No question about that. You hope that they're not going too fast, but there's no guarantee of that. Same situation that you get with accessible parking places. Somebody will literally park in that place. You know, just for a minute while they're getting, who knows whether they're gonna take out or something like that. I mean, it's sort of designed to be obstructive to persons in wheelchairs and anybody with a mobility impairment. Then your other option though would be, you know, you go out the other entrance or the other, you go out the exit from that parking lot and you end up on whatever the hell it is. So, and then you go in front of town hall and then you're going down the slope, which is dangerous too. It just doesn't make any sense. From a practical point of view, it fails just about every test. Yeah. None of the slopes are compliant. Yes. That's why- At one point. At one point. At one point it's 11%. So maybe when we bring this up in our communication with the town regarding the front entrance, we can say, because the side, the accessible entrance is really has this problem, we can just state a few of these. You know, the slope going from the top of the street down the slope is too steep, coming from the parking lot is very unsafe and the surface is not clear and things like that. And for that reason, we are urging that the front entrance should be also the front entrance for those people, those of us with mobility impairment. Okay. All right. I feel like putting, being forced to sit in the back of the bus. Yeah. You know? Yes. So I will rewrite what I wrote. I will contact Jeff Dugan and ask him if he can come out to do an analysis of the site. And any, and you know, I will inform everybody as to what time, with date and time. Yes. And perhaps it would be good if some people, especially people who use chairs. Yes. And be there when he comes. Yes. And obviously, you know, he's going to set the schedule, so it might not work too well for other people. I don't know. But those two things that we could do. So inform the town about the process problem and send that letter to Jeff Dugan as well and invite him to come out and do an analysis of where we might go from here. Yes. Is that good? Sounds like a plan. Okay. And I'll try to be there. You'll try to what? I'll try to be there. Oh, perfect. Okay. All right. So the next thing we have is, I think Pamela said she had not heard from anybody about the parking, the accessible pedestrian signals or any of the other things you said, right, earlier? So the next thing is on becoming a commission. And I do have some updates on that. And then I did reach out to folks on the other things. So. Okay. So let me start with the becoming a commission. Becoming a commission. Thank you. So the town manager, Athena O'Keefe who is the clerk of the council and Jen LaFountain who is the treasurer, collector and I met to discuss the process to move the committee to a commission. And I have a lot of good news. I think that everyone is in favor of moving the process forward. There were some steps that need to be completed in advance. And so there are things that I'm hoping Myra and you Marty might be able to help me with. So one of the things that I've been asked to do is to review the statute and do an analysis about the current composition of the committee and compare that to what's required for the commission because there are some statutory requirements. You have some openings. So there's a possibility that we might need to, to ensure that we have specific people meet those requirements. The second thing that I have been asked to do and I've been giving an April 8th target deadline is to think about what your revised charge would look like, what your new charge would look like for the commission. I'm not certain that that requires a lot of edits but I'll have to review the statute to do that. And then at that meeting there was discussion about how the funding would come into the newly established commission. There's a hope that the commission would be in place by July 1 of 2024. So trying to move very rapidly. And the council needs to adopt the general by-laws. I think all of this is information that Jeff Dugan reviewed with the committee over a year ago now. And then they would need to set a time limit for the budget process so that, and I think that my thoughts is that if things are in place by July 1, that would be the start date for funds to go into the newly created account for the commission. So they're taking into account the changes that would occur for the next fiscal year so that you would be in line with the current fiscal year. So a lot of movement on that. I will be honest, I have not looked at the statute but I will definitely try to make sure that I may reach out to you guys to meet separately to just have a conversation so that it could be presented probably to the committee at your April meeting. April 9th is the meeting. Yeah, so. So the statute has two pieces. One is section 8J, which establishes the commission and one is 22G, which gives us the handicap parking fund. The budgetary piece is up to the town. I mean, are you saying that they are considering giving us the money? Yes, they are. And we should get it while the getting is good. Yeah, I mean, that's not part of the requirement. I mean, they have the council has to sign on to 22G to give us what limited handicap parking receipts there are because the town does not seem to enforce that very much whereas other towns do but Amherst doesn't seem to enforce that very much. And we can, you know, if we have an account we're permitted, for example, to accept donation into the account, which the town doesn't have to give us. I mean, it could be somebody who left money for a specific project, you know, and we could try to get more money. Like it could, we're allowed to get money from various sources. We're allowed to accept donations. Anyway, wow, that's amazing Pamela, thank you so much. Well, I can't take credit for it but it is very good news. And so things are moving quickly on that front. So do you think our objection to the entrance of the town hall would jeopardize this? I don't think so. I mean, I think that it's two separate issues, right? So yeah, I think you guys can move ahead with your comments about that. So that's the- I could wait till after April. Good question, Sarah. Okay, all right. So in the interest of time, this is fabulous. Pamela, do you wanna meet with Marty and me or anyone else who knows anything about this? Sure, I would love to do that. Okay, I mean, thank God you're an attorney. But as far as I know, there's only two parts. There's just those two pieces of the statue and they're not long. Then the charge is actually sitting right there. So we'd probably just have to amend whatever charge the DAAC has. Has anyone ever seen that charge? Anyone? And I don't know. So that's good news. And I think it's moving right along. I did ask questions about to Guilford on the pedestrian signals, parking and the town common, the questions that you presented and to me. And so he didn't email me back with some responses. Oh, okay. So the inventory of the intersections is complete. The list of upgrades costs more than the remaining funds. And he does say that there is an additional $100,000 in the capital plan for more updates in FY 2025. Fabulous, okay. So that's pedestrian signals. As far as the town common is concerned, they'll continue that construction in April. And then finally as to the parking spaces on Boltwood, they should be back in line by June 1st. At least that's his hope that those things will occur by then. Okay. And what about the one on South Pleasant Street? I don't think he responded to me about the one on South Pleasant Street. And I'm looking at my email from him. I don't think I asked about that directly. So I can ask that again. Okay. All right. So Beth, that's pretty good. Boy, you did really better than me. Clarkson over Clarkson. All right. Again, please. I'm not sure who that was. Yeah, I couldn't tell. Well, it wasn't me. It was me, I'm sorry. Oh, no, that's all right. The next thing on the list. Oh, well, you know what? I think I see a typo in my agenda. But I think the next thing on the list was supposed to be reaching out to Chris to ask about the Accessible Trails Project. And she wrote back that the Planning Board had approved the project overall with some changes to the parking lot. And they're still finalizing their complete plans. The project has been put out to bid. Oh, actually that says to see. She has not been able to send me their minutes of their last Planning Board meeting which was from January. I think they were still working on it. She says the project has been put out to bid and construction is expected to begin soon. The trails are expected to be ready by the end of the summer. So that was her update on the Accessible Trails. Thank you. So you did say one thing that made me a little worried which is that the Planning Board decided to change the parking lot. Anybody else worried about that? Because do they need to come to us or do they need to have somebody really determine whether or not they're creating Accessible Parking Spaces because that is not a flat place? I mean, I think that's a good point. And it's something that we should ask to be consulted upon or where they're in or something. I mean, again, the other issue though was how are we gonna get people there who don't drive? Yeah. And so that needs to be addressed too because otherwise we're just, you know it's another nice thing that many people with disabilities can't participate or have access to. Yep. But even if you were gonna take a PVTA van you wanna know that it's gonna be able to let you out in a place that's safe for you to get out. I don't know. It's not flat. I mean, that's the problem with the place, right? Oh, other than the fact that there's no bug. It's fairly flat. It is. I mean, it used to be a function place. I mean, Hickory Ridge Golf Club had dinners and stuff there all the time. So it's not too bad in that regard. But if the PVTA van is gonna let you off you wanna make sure that it actually picks you up. That's right. There are some issues here. And I think we had determined that the closest PVTA stop was like 500 meters away or so from the entrance. I can't remember. I can't remember where it is. Probably on route nine. I mean, 116. Yeah, it's up 116. Yeah, so it's quite a height there. Right, so we were gonna talk to the... Well, the paratransit will get you there and they'll pick you up if you wanna wait all day. But we were gonna talk to the senior center, right? I think we should invite the seniors, somebody from whoever determines what that van does that the senior center got. Who's in charge of that? Is it a council of aging decision? I think so. So the senior center director is Hailey Bolton and she works with the council on aging. I could extend an invitation and ask her to join your next meeting if you would like. I think that's great because we need to make sure that once that place is open that people can get there because there's no bus. Yeah. Right, okay, so we wanna put that in their thinking. And we didn't put in that in the letter to the committee about both the lack of the bus stop but also trying to coordinate with the senior center. Is it, and is it the silver van? I think they refer to it as the silver shuttle but I'm, yeah, I'm not. No, that letter that we wrote, where did it go? It went to, who asked for their approval for our, it was the conservation, oh my God. It was addressed to Dave Zomek. Dave Zomek, okay, right, okay, that's right. It went to Dave Zomek who's in charge of everybody. So one would hope that he has spoken to Hailey Bolton about this. You know, maybe what we might suggest that maybe it, maybe twice a week or once a week at least, they should reserve a slot for people with mobility impairments who might need to use the van to be served. You know, like, I mean, of course you cannot tell what kind of date is going to be like but if people know rather than take their chances and then turn away, you know, then that will discourage them. Well, we were thinking maybe that there would be a scheduled ride, you know, like on Tuesdays and Thursdays, whatever time the van is going to take people to the new conservation area or whatever, recreation area. And at such and such a time, the van is going to pick people up. That's right, that would be great. And it will, you know, like requests for that service should get a higher priority and how they can accommodate. So we're going to see her, hopefully... I think that needs to... Go ahead. I'm sorry. Okay, I think that needs to be the top of the agenda for the discussion with Amy Bolton. I think it's a great idea. I need to throw cold water if any is needed on the idea that people can go from the bus stop on 116 to the Hickory Ridge area because unless you're trying to reduce the number of persons with disabilities in Amherst, you really don't want them going down that road in a wheelchair or something like that. It is not safe. I told her to be angry. I was thinking increase the number. It could be, you could think about it both ways. You think about it? Yes, you could reduce and increase by a... That's good. All right, this is good. All right, so we're going to have Haley Bolton at the next meeting and hopefully the fire chief, right? So he can tell us what procedures would be used in an emergency and so that we can make sure that it's all on the website under the disability part. And then we all, we have to talk about the website at some point, what we're going to be able to, what we want to put there. That's a whole other discussion. And probably not until we're a commission, but we'll need to change the website. I know Zip about changing websites, but we probably want to talk about what we want to see on the website, right? Yeah, okay, all right. So we need minutes. It is 12.53. We have two sessions minutes. One from the special meeting with Amherst College. Are there any comments about that or is there a motion to accept? So... Sorry, Myra, was there also the bit about connecting with North Hampton? North Hampton. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you do that? Yeah, I did finally do that, sorry. It took so long. And I heard back from Keith and they are eager to connect with us further. Well, they have a March meeting that's today at four, but they have an April meeting, a May meeting and a June meeting, and they were wondering about connecting at some point, but I just want to let folks know that I had made the connection and if we want to plan something further for, I don't know, either later in the summer or during Disability Pride Month or just forging across the river connection with their committee. I guess I want there to be a purpose for it, other than just hello, how are you? Yeah. Who are you? I guess I want to know if there would be something we could maybe bring that we want to talk about. I don't know. By the way, speaking of which, do you know that the PVTA, for what it's worth, the PVTA paratransit is running same day service in Amherst? That means you have to order it two hours in advance if it's available. But if they happen to have free time, you can call up and say, could you get me to such and such a place? And if it's two hours away, but then try to get back and they'll tell you they can't. So I don't really know how helpful that's going to be because if you reserved it one way, the other day and you want to change the pickup time and they won't do that, then you could try the same day. But I just thought you should know that on paper, they have same day service in Amherst. Anyway, so Northampton has that too. That's what made me think about it, but Hadley doesn't. So I think at a future meeting, next meeting, maybe we need to think about what we might want to talk about with Northampton or do with Northampton. But I think right now isn't the time because we don't have time. What do people think? Yes? Yes. Okay. So minutes of... I agree that there isn't time, but I would say that if Northampton has had this same day service longer, that it would be one of the things that would be good to talk about with that committee in terms of is this a viable thing or just another joke? Good question. That is a good one to discuss. Yes, they have had it longer. Hours is relatively new. I'm not even sure when it started. And Northampton's probably been going for about a year. All right, minutes of January 24, was that? The special meeting about the Amherst College construction project, is there a motion to accept them or approve them? I don't know, I'm sorry. Okay, thanks, Jim. Anybody second? I second. Okay, did anybody read them? I actually... I actually did. Quickly. They seem right to me. So, I mean, are we ready to vote? Are people willing to vote on something they didn't read? Or you want to just read them right now? Why are you asking such questions, Myra? Why do you vote in such detail? Well, we have a motion and a second. We're voting all in favor of approving the minutes from that January special meeting. Say yes. Aye. Yes. Aye. Thank you, Cody. All right, so that's everybody, I think. Anybody opposed? Anybody abstaining? Myra, this is Ian, I'll abstain because I wasn't able to make the special meeting. Okay, all right. And the next minute is from February. Do we have a motion about them? To approve them? Motion to approve. Okay, and do we have a second? I second. Yay. We have any discussion, corrections, anything like that about those minutes? No, okay. All in favor of approving the February meeting minutes from February, I believe 13. Say yes. Yes. Aye. Aye. Okay, anybody opposed? Anybody abstaining? Okay, we have two sets of minutes. Okay, Pamela, did you ever figure out what happened to the other minutes and did you ever receive any, not that I sent you any, but did you ever receive any of the old minutes? I did not receive any of the old minutes. I have a theory that I'll have to check with IT. The town has two different methods for storing documents. And I'm wondering whether the other documents might be in the other system. But I haven't checked yet, so. Okay, I found some of them, but I wasn't gonna send them because I didn't know if anyone else had sent them. So I'll dig them out and I'll send you what I can find. What are the dates you want? So it's actually, it's all of 2021 to 2022. Just like a full year missing. So the year 2021 ending sometime in 2022 or right before you came or? Yeah, right before I came that. So they're all like 18 months worth. Yes. But I'll send out the dates and I will try to check with IT. Marty has her hand up, yeah. Okay, Marty. I just wanna say this is, having the minutes on the website has been a longstanding problem for this committee. I know when I was in practice, I could never get copies of the minutes, which was really disturbing because I always watch them to find out what is the feeling of the board before I did variances. And there is a lot of missing records. So I have this feeling that, because there is a whole year missing, that some of it might be technical issues because there are two different methodologies for reserving documents or archiving documents, which I find really frustrating because I can never remember which directions I'm supposed to go. But I will work with IT again. Mike Warner has been really good and ask him if we can do something for you. But if you have old minutes, please send them to me. Okay. So yeah, what I have is like a packet. And so you would have to extract the minutes because otherwise I'll have to save them in a certain place and attach them and everything. So that's not how I do my... Right. And it may be that Maureen saved things as a packet rather than saving them individually. Because if you look at the various boards and committees and towns, in town, different boards and committees have different practices. Some save their minutes separately. Some save them as packets and some boards have all three different documents. That's why I have a feeling that they're there, but we probably need to try to do a little bit more digging. Well, this is all, but Pat, are you still there? Maybe not. Is Pat still there? She is. Well, here's all of this. And this is maybe something that the town council should take up because it pertains in some ways to the records of the open meetings a lot. So it would seem to me like they should have a better system. Right? Yeah, between Pamela and I, we will try to figure out even what the system is. Or systems are, right? Systems are, okay. All right, I think we need a motion to adjourn. And is anyone gonna make one? Almost. Any second? Great, okay, Cody seconds and does all in favor of adjourning, say yes. Aye. And I assume no one's gonna abstain. Okay, so I guess we're all done until April 9th, which is the day after, oh, so Pamela and Marty and I should set up a meeting to talk about the commission charge, right? Yes. So everybody can go if you want. And Pamela and Marty and I should set this up. Bye, everyone. Okay, bye, everyone. Bye. Thank you, bye. See you all next month. Okay, all right, so I'm relatively free, I'm sorry to say I have nothing to do. All right, hold on one second. Pamela has no time, so she's the one who has to do this. All right, so you hold on. Wait, did we? Hold on one second. Yeah, that's what I wanted to say. So hold on one second and I will stop the recording. Okay. All right.