 Hi there. Hi there. Wow. Only two of us. I had the wrong link, so I'm wondering whether for the meeting, I'm wondering whether other people did. I don't know it. This is the second time. I think we can't join the link early either. So I panic every time I try to be here a few minutes early and it says it. And then all of a sudden it works just fine. Okay. Well, we've got, we've got folks joining. Yeah. Hello there. It's not just you. It was also Helen. Meaning the folks who joined the three of you were here already. So, Oh, Helen only beat you by a second. Gotcha. No, hello. Hi there. I like, I didn't like hit the, okay, you can record this button or whatever. So it wouldn't let me come off mute. Like it won't let you participate. If you don't acknowledge it's okay to record it. I think that's very cool feature. Very logical. Very logical. Yes. Awesome. And thanks for queuing up the. In the meeting note section, Helen, appreciate that. Oh yeah, my pleasure. I never really know kind of what to take out besides what, you know, if there's a speaker or something like that. So all of those notes are from like the very first meeting we had at hyper ledgers. So if you need to take, obviously, you know, edit, edit as you will. Yes. I think it's still some doubt. There's still some valuable links there. Relating to how to find us and where you can find the most recent information and what links to use and all that kind of stuff to join. So maybe, maybe keeping it in as helpful, but whatever. All right, we'll just give people another minute. Trevor, you're queued. We've finished. I believe it was page 23. If I recall correctly. What do you want to work from? Do you want to work from the. Which document do you want to work from? I would say whatever is easiest for you to be honest. Your dealer's choice. Let's, let's, let's do it from PowerPoint because it'd be easier for me to type notes into the final thing. Let me just. Do you have a link you can share of the most recent version of. The document. Sometimes it's easier if I can scroll along. Yeah. I believe we do. Give me a second. I have a PDF. Trevor, is that linkable? It's not, but let me, I, if you, if you give me two minutes, I can make a Google doc of it. The reason I don't do Google, the reason I don't do Google doc is that it just messes with the format and it's easy. Yeah, from. I just flipped it to Steve directly also, but for anybody else like moving forward, maybe we can put it in our notes. Yeah, I was going to say anything stuff shouldn't live in our own personal, our own personal Google drives for this. Everything should live on the wiki. So if you can put upload a, upload the file directly there for people to see, that would be helpful. Okay. And if we're ready to get into our agenda, we're still missing Sir Ken. I'm not sure if we were expecting him today, but we can go ahead and get through some of our housekeeping So welcome to the July 13th edition of the Cardia Working Group. We are a participant of Hyperledger Labs, which means that we're operating under the Hyperledger and Linux Foundation antitrust policy. And I will chat for you all our notes, which are on the wiki page in Hyperledger. Hopefully this link works. It's my edited one, but we are also operating under the Hyperledger code of conduct, which in short is encouraging everybody to have a voice here to be nice to each other to encourage participation. And to welcome anybody who wants to engage in our community. So with that said, I think we have all familiar faces. So I'm going to skip introductions if that's okay. Feel free to type in and introduce yourself if you want to at any point. And we are resuming where we left off in our last session, specifically to talk about the white paper edits and getting through that we had finished on page 23 last time in our team effort and editing. And Trevor is going to lead us through the hopefully the end of the document so that we can get that white paper finalized and redistributed. Anything anybody wants to add to the agenda. Okay, did you just post that link in the chat to the white paper. I did not link was for the wiki meeting notes. Okay. Hold on churning away. Okay, there you go. Fantastic thank you Trevor I'll put that in the wiki page as well if anybody's following along there. And let's see. Let me share my, let me share my screen. Thank you for getting ready. We did cover in an offline discussion Ken and I met as chairs to talk about lining up some additional agendas and trying to get some things booked out for some of our future meetings. So he and I have been making out reaches to the community that we believe would be really helpful in terms of progressing the discussion around the work we're doing here at Cardia in a real world scenario. We've had a bunch of guest speakers, we're looking for some additional in very specific business communities that might be useful to helping us understand real world implementations. So we're hoping to get those slated for upcoming meetings and we'll try to keep the community updated on those as they get slated. Okay. That's a good enough time. Yeah, let me. Let me go back to slide 22. So do we need this middle column of how necessary is that to explain what a schema is I mean, it's just a little crowded but would it be more confusing if if we didn't have this these icons indicating what is actually written to the distributed ledger. I'm of the opinion that the right side is technical and the left side is might be a TLDR for some people too long to we don't read it. So the icons. That's the succinct list right there that might might be pretty good. I'm sorry, I'm which of these two the distributed ledger network column or the actual schema data schema data. So the right most column is code that some people whose eyes will just glaze over at, and the left most column is a lot of text. And so the middle column is a nice summary. Right. Okay, so so everybody agreed that maybe getting rid of this. The code. That's for a pretty narrow audience. I think the specifics if someone says, gosh, I really want to know about schemas from the middle column, then we could put provide that in a different context for a for an overview. I don't think it's super important. Maybe we can, maybe we can solve that by just adding one sentence to that first sentence in this page which is that a schema is a JSON based document template. There you go. I know you have specification you can take out document. Specification for verifiable credentials that defines and describes the data they contain. That's good. And then you could move that over. Yeah. Is there anywhere that says, like, what actually goes on the ledger or something like that because they think that this is the answer to that question. I don't know if it's maybe in the somewhere else in this document. Okay, cool. Okay, we'll refine that. I'll make all of those bigger. One of the points that was made last meeting is that the revocation registry is optional. Yes. So I don't know if there's if we want to kind of indent that in here or if there's anything else that we want to highlight about this. Right, because maybe it would go. Next to the credential definition rather than before it. Indent revocation. What I would just do is reverse the order of the items and the icons. Good idea. The did is most important followed by the schema than the credential definition and then that deep prioritizes the revocation registry to the bottom. Right, I'll fix those. If only it were that simple Trevor. So slide 23 issuing and accepting a verifiable credential. Just thinking out loud here but that comment on the right says following the qr code or link will establish a connection that seems kind of vegan. I mean, I kind of I guess, like I said, I'm thinking out loud. I think it's kind of an obvious statement. I don't know if there's a lot of value with how that's currently worded. Maybe it's the, the patient, you use patient in this language so it's the patient. Registers or how would you say that when you like connect with the qr code cause it's a qr or link follows the patient follows. Let's just maybe just look ahead the next slide so that you can see. If accesses the invitation or something. Oh, good one. I think the second bullet in the gray box needs to be clarified the patient holds their health data. Meaning they have control over whom they share with whom they share it. It doesn't really. There's that statement about consent is a little confusingly worded. Let's get rid of the rest of that. Thank you. Okay, so just knowing what comes. Do you want to make. I see what I want to make sure is that somebody, the visual here is more important than the, you know, that they know oh I'm going to use the phone to scan this qr code. Maybe the patient. In this language, the patient accepts the invitation with their mobile device. Because you called it an invitation in the step immediately prior. Well, no, that's the that's already happening here. Oh, well, yeah, I guess that is that step that's the point of that visual right. Patient connects to the system using a qr code or link. With their mobile device it's a qr code. You couldn't email them something they'd have to scan it. We just add the other thing. At the moment, if you're using a mobile device. There are no mobile wallet applications that I know of that can use the link to establish the connection. They're coming, but they can't yet. So you have to use a qr code. Is there something that in the Should we say something to the effect of what you've just said is in development. No, I don't think we should put that in here. I what we could maybe do is just take or link out of that. First word, the first text blob. So it just says a qr code. Not or a link. So accepting the invitation is connecting to the system. So we could, we should keep one or the other, but it's kind of redundant at the moment. Okay. Thanks, Trevor. Yeah, you're very patient with all of us. No, no, no, no, no, I mean, This is a that has to be changed. I don't really like I'm not loving the design of this page to be honest. It's a bit of a mess. I think that you work your magic. I think one question I have in that same gray box is sorry, I haven't moved past that one yet, but the first one is it without needing to or it's without writing any data about this credential. And it's they do have to write data about the credential, but not the details. Needing to makes it sound like it's optional. Without writing any data. That's just fine. It's about the credential vague. Any health data about this credential to the ledger. How about that rain without writing any credential data. Excellent. Yeah, I think you can also take out the words and without from that sentence. Without just the and. Yep. Oh, sorry. Yeah. There are numbers in here five and six. I know. Yeah. I think it'll be removed. Okay. Just making sure. Like either got a number of all or not number of all. Yep. Yep. No fix these. I think the rest of this is okay. Next is good. Good luck with figuring out how to arrange the items. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a bit of a mess. Okay, presenting and verifying a credential. Okay. So agent software generates a unique encrypted link for this interaction. Can we say connection? Yeah. Okay. This would be a point where you could mention. Consent again. Right. The patient chooses. They chose to do this. So consent is implied. Okay. Yeah. Nice. Nicely word wise, but that is where you could mention it again. If you wanted to. I wanted to save some space if we want to is. The wallets aren't doing. Biometric binding at the moment. I just, I'm. Okay. So devil's advocate. You leave that out. People will immediately jump to. What if, what if somebody else takes my wallet? Thanks my phone. Yeah. I mean, even though, I mean, how long away is biometric binding? So the app is protected by. Your access to the device in general. There's not an additional layer that keeps you from accessing the application. If you were to access the whole phone. And the timing for that is. It's on the roadmap with an indeterminate point in the future. Nobody knows when it shows up in the roadmap. Exactly. Kayla, what do you think? I think it's okay if I would, I would be inclined to leave it. Maybe you say. I mean, it's more words, but you could put it in parentheses and say, preferably through biometric binding. And just leave it. I think it's okay. Maybe that might be kind of an important feature because if we're trying to, you know, get people excited to, you know, use and adopt this technology, everything we can do to throw blankets of comfort and security on them will be a good thing. Unless we have, I agree with you, Steve, unless we have somewhere else to talk about this. Because it doesn't have to be here. It doesn't have to be here. I think it's a definition of how things are working. It's like a, it is a kind of random place to mention biometric binding. That's not a bad idea to move it. If there's another place for it. Maybe that's our compromise that we take it out from this step. And when we, if we have somewhere else where we're talking about the app and the holder, we can make reference to biometric binding. Yeah. Agreed. So where do you want to do biometric binding? That's a good question. Let me make a note in our meeting notes so that we know what to mention it. Not in the, not on this slide is the answer, Trevor. Right. I mean, well. We do talk here about, you know, unique encrypted connection. It does kind of fit here, maybe in my opinion. And it might not hurt to have it in multiple places. I know it is kind of. Like a detailed, but sometimes. Details matter, you know, I don't know. I would also say that this slide talks about everything after the download, the open, the set up, the wallet set up, the access, like all that. It's just how the. Credential works. You know, so we could explain and expand on. Where you get your wallet and how you download it and how you set it up and what needs to be in there and what the standards are and how you think, how you open it with your face and blah, blah, blah. But I think that's like the step before what this diagram is showing. Yeah, I think I, I think I personally vote to put it back in. I see two reasons why not to, because maybe we could say it doesn't fit here and obviously the features not ready yet, but. You know, if this slide is how do you prevent, present and verify a credential. We're going to want to make sure people feel reassured that that's a secure process. Yeah, but we have, we should mention it somewhere else. I think we table the subject. I've made a note. We should go back holistically through and talk about biometric binding in all of the places we should talk about it. And let's. So, so I've earmarked that. Maybe it gets back here, but let's. Table biometric binding for a minute and continue through. The text review, if that's okay. We have a couple more pages and we maybe have time to come back to this discussion. I think we can move on if there's no other comments on the slide at the moment. Okay. So this is just a page where they can go and watch a demonstration. Okay. Applications in healthcare. Now the question is, do how, how more, how expansive do we want to be on this? I think we want. Tangible. Relatable. I don't know. I don't know if that's. Bullet points would be my. Yeah. Recommendation. Can you fix the second bullet point instead of sharing it to share it? I, I, um, I knew somebody once that said you should always boil things down to three bullet points. And if that's not enough, then do sub bullet points under the main three. I don't know if that's. Super doable here, but it might be worth to try and. I think that's okay. Yeah. I think that's okay. I think that's good. Under allowing patients to hold their health data. Those can all get indented. Cause they're. Relating to that one above. Yeah. That one at the top come down. I think maybe yes. Oh, you mean under the sub bullet. Yeah. I'm unclear. I'll let you finish. I'm unclear with the last bullet. Is trying to communicate. Yeah. Well, doctor certification. So various health healthcare. Provider certification. And, um, Cause that's actually was one of the found the, the kind of clarify credentials within managing doctor approval doctors. Maybe, maybe we should, it's simplifying healthcare provider. Certification and employment requirements. Is that too specific? No. It makes it a little more. Clear. Okay. And then you're taking off that first, first bullet. Yes. Sorry. What is an HCR on that? Maybe. Okay. Definitely spell it out. Anything else on this page? Just one more second. Yeah. Sure. Um, is the, that bullet point. So that, that bullet points actually two things. Is it. Sorry. And they, the first enabling. No, it's all good. I was thinking that that one in the very last one were synonymous, but they're not really. I have one recommendation in the blurb at the top. Um, and doing this, they mitigate error fraud, remove inefficiencies. Um, I think that's a good point. Yeah. I think that's a good point. All while do we want. Could we say all while enabling. The patient. To. Manage. Their data. Exchange or an integrations. Something like that. So it's more on the positive side. Yeah. I think the point though of saying without direct innovations and using your providers or whatever, um, they don't have to do like some complex back end roadmap, you know, developing, um, just to enable the sharing of data. So it's more about the, the sharing of data between two entities, not necessarily the patient themselves. Um, because no like patient does that good integrations with the provider. It would be like provider to government or provider to whatever. Okay. I'll qualify that. I have another thought real quick about this bullet list. So there's basically three subjects here. There's the patient, the provider. And the. Um, like. I guess healthcare organizations. And maybe we might want to reorganize the bullets to be under those, like, this is what we do for the patient. This is what we do for the provider. And this is what we do for healthcare. So that's what we do for healthcare organizations or whatever. I like that a lot. That's a great idea. So, um, yeah. So the main bullet would be. For patients. Yeah. You could take that one and just. That as a bullet under four patients. And then the, can we, uh, what you could do is get rid of enabling healthcare certification first. No, we need that. That's related to the patient giving that authority. You could do it for patients, for providers and others for others. You know, I was just trying, now we made it even longer bullet list, Steve. Yeah. So in front of the next primary bullet, it would be, um, For providers. And that's just one. That's the sub bullet. And then. Yeah, it would be both of those, I would say. And the first one that starts with the word enabling also would go under providers, right? Cause it allows. Sorry. What, what, what was that? Um, that one. Oh, the one you just said highlighted. This first one that starts with enabling can go underneath the provider section. This. Yeah. I should come out of the patient part and go to the provider. And then the enable enabling mandated reporting for comedable diseases. Yeah. There is that patient. Enable. No, that would definitely be for providers. Yeah. How about enabling compliance with PIPA privacy rule? Also probably for providers. Yeah, I agree. That one should be for providers too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The same with authenticating digital prescriptions would be. So both two of them, both of those. Yep. There is a benefit to the patient. Making prescriptions a little simpler and easy, like easier for them to. Agreed, but not authenticating. They don't. The patient doesn't care about authenticating it. If you could add one to the top. A fourth bullet for under patients. To. The digital prescriptions or something like that. What do you think, Kayla? Yeah. Maybe if we're sticking on the enabling. Thread here, it would be enable or your easier. Access is fine. Actually a really good one. Is there one about. Well, maybe it's allowing patients patients to hold their health data and provide consent, but like moving providers, like if you see a new, new, or getting, you know, if you get a second opinion or something like that, like you have your data with you, you can just, it's like quicker. Third. Second opinions. I don't know. I don't know exactly what I'm trying to say, but just like. Allowing the patient, the problem set is the annoying. Having to fill out a bunch of paperwork every time, every time you see a new provider. And so this would. You know, facilitate easier access to new providers or something like that. Yeah, I would say simplifies. Data coordination across care teams. Yeah, that's it. And that is for the patient and the provider in theory, but. I think this is a pretty solid list. Is there a security aspect for providers like, you know. I don't know, I don't know if there's like zero trust, something access to health data. Should we bring in zero trust here for potentially Trevor? I think it's overriding it a little. I don't think the provider particularly cares about that. Like hospitals do don't they? Like they care about. Being hacked and. I don't know. Maybe not. Okay. You got, we got a fair few bullets for them to consider. So none of this should have really changed, right? Um, it's, uh, it's, um, I think there's been definitely rewritten. If I remember correctly. It's largely the same. But I think I've shortened it. I don't, nothing's standing out to me. I do have a second question I'm adding to my parking lot list, which is do we define derived credentials, which we don't need to answer now, but we talk about it here. And that has a really important play. So I just want to make sure when we go back and do a final read through. We've got that really dealt with derived credentials. Yeah. I think that when we putting on that security hat, we were talking about the biometric binding. I mean, derived credentials add a ton of value in the. Reducing the need to share. Private information. To downstream participants. So well, let's table it. But for later. Any comments on slide 28 from anybody? Does this have been new? Oh, no, nevermind. Well, the newest video Trevor, where Heather is, um, primarily featured talking about the successful, most recent trial. No, it doesn't. Is this side missing a header? Or is this all under the previous. Okay. Thanks. I can add that. Well, there's two video. Well, one video link in the, I don't know whether that's goes to it or not. But the, the most recent one with Heather though is more DTC focused than health focused. Yeah, that's, that's kind of what occurred to me as well. I mean, that photo of the minister. Also that. That's from, yeah. I mean, I can take that out. Do you think the minister should come out? Well, it's kind of disingenuous because it applies to the DTC and not the health. Well, I mean, it does end on the, I do end on the, uh, continue to collaborate in March, 2023. They successfully demonstrated. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So the rights for more details. So I can put the, I could put the video in there. That wouldn't be a problem. Yeah. There's a couple, there's two new videos actually. So it might lay out nicely. Just tuck them underneath those. Yeah. So I'll, I'll send those links to you. Okay. So just one thing to, unless I'm just skipped ahead, but one of Heather's comments was that we don't, that I didn't put a roadmap. What's the roadmap? So read that with that in mind. Do we need a roadmap slide? I find road maps interesting or think a lot of people do. The hard part about it is. You know, we kind of have to think. Do we want this document to be accurate for a specific snapshot in time? And then become outdated as the, you know, roadmap changes and evolves and gets done. You know, so we can try and keep things that are. I don't know, just a thought we could try and, you know, avoid talking about what features it currently has or will have. But I guess to some extent we have to do some of that. I wonder if this, this slide can be turned into a timeline. And then we could say, you know, Cartier develop, you know, basically pull out all this information out in this big brick of text in that kind of left hand column, turn it into a timeline. And then at the end of the timeline have like, you know, future considerations include, and then we could like give bullet points of like items that we want to figure out, like biometric finding and. You know, link sharing or whatever, like all the other stuff that we're, you know, we have, we have in mind in here's like the work ahead, but we're not like super. Like tying ourselves to an exact time of when that's going to happen. It's just the future. I like that idea, Helen. I would be very cautious of us pinning down anything too specific on this slide. Or in a roadmap, because it's, you know, we're still working that out. There's to your point, some very clear things like we just mentioned biometric binding. Great example. But I don't know that there, it would have to be really thoughtful about what goes on that timeline or roadmap. Yeah, just enough to get people excited that to see that there is momentum behind the project and that we are thinking about next steps and making it better and faster and make it jump higher and all those good things. Like it's going to be, it's going to have more in it in the future. Like you should be a part of this community as we're doing real, you know, we have a lot of really cool goals ahead of us. But yeah, not being super specific. Yeah. And I think showing the timeline of everything that we've done so far. Can show some of that without having to do too much into the like what happens next, you know, it can be like dot, dot, dot. I didn't put the slide that's currently in the information that's currently in the white paper, which, which focuses on, I think, drug testing. And so I don't know. For whatever reason, I just didn't see that slide as being very compelling or out of date. So maybe we want to look at that and extract what needs to be kept. Yeah, I think those, those expanded use cases would absolutely be something that would be on like towards the, you know, end of the dotted line on the timeline without specifics, but again, encouraging people to join and be a part of the growth of the project for sure. Okay, so next steps. In the, this is something that we've been talking a lot about in the areas marketing working group is how to get, how to lower the barrier of entry for people to get involved with the project, how to adopt it, how to participate and all the stuff. So I think, you know, want to use part of how to get started could be its own page and then list all the things that you can like make it like this is its own page. Here's all the things you can do. Here's where to start. Here's what to ask questions. Here's when to show up. Here's our meeting timeline. Okay. I think that's a good idea. I think that's a good idea. Helen, do you want to put that together? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll send it. I'll put it in the doc and send it to you and you can make the page and make it pretty. I'll put, I can, I can do that. I'll send it to Kila as well. Kila and other folks to get feedback to make sure that I'm correct and where people like go to download the code or whatever they need to do to adopt it. But yeah, like putting the whole kitchen sink and how to use it. That's like the whole point of the project, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's an excellent point. And I think it'll be a lot stronger for having that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we still have to, we, because I didn't dwell so deeply on the. Aruba. What happened in Aruba as, you know, that, that. I, you know, instead of it's because the focus of this version of the kind of white paper is really. The ecosystem that you can use for sharing data rather than here's what we did in Aruba. Derivative, the, the, I, the, there's really no mention of derivative credential in this process. So how do we want to deal with that? Why, in Kila, from a health data perspective, why is mentioning a derivative credential really important? Well, I think to piggyback on the idea that, you know, we're trying, there's a flavor of privacy and security that is like the undercurrent of why this is valuable. The concept of a derivative, derivative credential as you can share your health data only once. And then it, you just can say, yes, I'm good. Right. So for example, you know, if we're talking about use sports and their health data, they should be sharing their, that they're eligible to play and all of their personal information with the club. Once it gets validated and then the coaches are not carrying around birth certificates and like medical records with them to tournaments, they can just carry around the stuff that says, look, they're totally eligible. They've met all their criteria. Everything's good to go. The club has all of that and validated it for like registration at competitive events or things like that. Right. So the fact that those derivative credentials protect the re, the re-disclosure of their PH or PII, I think is valuable. Okay. I'll do a separate slide on that. Okay. Like enhancing privacy with a derivative credential could be the heading. Sure. I think it's really worth mentioning. It's, it's so valuable that concept. Okay. And we had put a placeholder on the one other item, which was biometric binding, which we should just decide, do we need to like consistently mention it? Do we want to tackle that? And is there a home for that somewhere else about the use of the holder app? Maybe we need a slide to talk about. Privacy security and looking ahead, because we don't also, we also don't mention, for example, like some of these apps, maybe they're going to use the Karen alliance. You know, there are players in our community that are trying to set some standards around how some of this stuff should. Function. I don't know if we want to. So if, if we add in, you say after issuing and accepting a let me think about where's the best place to put. So after issuing, presenting and verifying a credential, we have a slide for enhancing privacy with a derivative credential. Enhancing security with biometrics is another slide. So they would follow each other. Sounds okay to me. Okay. What do we want to say about biometrics? And that's a question for you, Keela. And I think Mike. I think, and Mike correct me on any points here to me, there's probably two points that I can think of off the top of my head. One is the biometrics metric binding of the specific credential to me. So that. When the person receives it, they know it's specifically mine, whether that's through like pictures or whatever. And the second would be the. Protections on the holder app. So that only the. Person who is authorized can do the sharing of the credentials, right? That goes to the consent. On who should be allowed to share the information. So it's like locking down the app itself. And then there's locking the credential to the person. Mike, did I miss anything? Or do you want to correct anything I said there? After you come off mute. So. I think that covers it. And. Yeah, the. The way. That's interesting because I don't know. Like we don't have. I don't think either of them are in the cardio platform at the moment. Like. Correct. But we've talked about both of them. Because I believe. Avatar was, I think it was avatar who was doing something around the. Credential binding with biometric. So we discussed that in previous. Sharing sessions. So that's definitely come up. I agree. They're both not available today, but again, it doesn't mean that it's not important to be talking about in the community. And sort of best practices. You could say. If you're careful with the language, you could say that. The system. You know. Is. Architect or built or structured in a way that could support or would support. Binding, but. We have to say it's a feature that's. Not widely supported yet. Something like that. Does that give you enough to work with Trevor? Not a whole lot, but yeah. I'll do something. It's going to be a very lot of white space. Yeah. And so I, that's why I don't know if they, maybe it is one slide, which is, you know, security and privacy best practice or. Features or best practices or something. And you put, we put both of them on the same. Slide that's totally feasible as well. They're not unrelated in that they're tied to. Tightening the system. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're having a slide on security. And privacy best practices. There are a bunch of other ones that could be pulled in to. Pat out the slide. That is true. Like Karen alliance. There's another one. If you want to do that. I'm volunteering you, Keela, to write that. Additional text. Okay. I can put some, I can put some thoughts into words and send that your way. It's easier to word something that exists. So we'll, I'm sure we'll want to review it again. Go ahead. Helen. Oh, I was just going to say, you can also, you know, put an eye catching little diagram of like. The icon for face scanning or whatever. So people understand like it, this is about security. It's about, you know, biometric binding might not be. A term that some readers understand. But if we show them like it's scanning your face. Or something, you know, I don't know, like. You can use a diagram to use up space as well. I expect anybody who gets through this at this point to this point will, will be reasonably familiar with. Like at this, this is, this is a nerd document for health info nerds. Very true. Okay. So we have made it through our document. We have two things. That we are going to take offline, biometric binding, derivative credentials, and potentially security. That's three things. I'm sorry. Four things. Time, the creation of timeline and roadmap. Timeline. Thank you. And I will try and circulate all of these. Well before next meeting. So that's plenty of time. That they can be discussed before we get to the formal discussion. Okay. Excellent. All right. Wonderful. Well, we, so we will do our best to move on these things. Between meetings. And hopefully. We can just review the Delta in our, in a future discussion. Any other. Comments. Okay. Well then mission accomplished. We'll give everybody a couple of minutes between now and their next meeting. And we will talk to you in two weeks. Thank you. Thanks all. Yeah. Bye.