 Hey everyone welcome back to the Zelda informer podcast episode number of 16 Obviously, I'm back after a one-week hiatus. Thank you Alfred for really picking up the pieces last week and throwing together an awesome Short podcast. I completely forgot the latter half or we're supposed to talk about a fair part of the week It's okay. It was the first podcast yet around without any help So you did you did a really good job throwing it together with very short notice That's a personal stuff going on, but I don't want to say the personal stuff necessarily cleaned up But I've I've found my my passion my dedication again to get this going So This week things are going to be a little bit different. We're going to start with our fan topics first Because I don't have any topic Zelda wise that I want to talk about this week I don't know what could have become Zelda wise topics, but they're not based around Zelda So I always like to start off these other former podcasts with all the topics So that's why we're going straight to our fan topics this week and all of them come from Facebook And I apologize to everyone who might have tried to get us in other places I just didn't have time today But I will double-check our YouTube our email and all those stuff Make sure if you submitted anything there that it will be there next week So you have all the dibs right now in the world if I didn't get to your topic this week through any other method So starting right off Charlie let's introduce our guests first. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah We don't have anybody else on the podcast no, that's right So see this is what happened. I take one week off and I forget how to that's what you've got me here for Yes, so obviously you've heard Alfred doggie. He's the co-host picks me up when I'm making mistakes like this Then we also have mr. Daniel. Oh, hello Care to explain what you do at Zeldin form. Hey, I'm new but yeah, basically I I Make some of the videos that you guys see on the YouTube channel. So Yeah, sorry about Your most recent video I wasn't supposed I wasn't supposed to go live yet. Oh, whoops That's why it hasn't been posted the site exact I have different things I have to haven't linked the videos at the end. I haven't changed the thumbnail Anyways, that's what I get for uploading in the middle of the night and forgetting to set it to private That's okay, it hasn't been to our site where a majority of our viewers So far the comments are pretty positive though people seem to like it So yeah, so yeah, he provides some extra video content. It's been great stuff Yeah, cool. I know speaking of video content. We have One of my favorite youtubers on the cast Mr. McIntyre from McIntyre Productions. He's back again. Thanks. Hey, I'm McIntyre production. Some people call me Andy What I typically do on the channel is I'm very well known doing Zelda theories. I'm actually working on one right now actually It should be up Friday and when I say Friday, I'll probably be up on Saturday Isn't that how it always goes Well, if you like what you're hearing then I post all that stuff up on my youtube channel McIntyre Productions If you like that then hey, I'm here for you Yep, and I love it and part of it's because you just have the best talking voice man. It's like butter. It's so smooth So smooth So now we'll get it to the top. There you go. Now we're ready. Yeah So Charlie Meg from our Facebook page Said if you put the Zelda series in order from Skyward Sword Where did the timeline split which if this feels like a really obvious question? What causes it and is there gonna be a game about Ganon's side? So this question is really weird Yeah There's only one spot in the whole timeline that any split occurs right now It's a great time. It's all explained in Hyrule of story So Charlie in case you don't aren't aware. I'll just give the basic rundown Skyward Sword there's some time traveling stuff You beat the game Zelda feels bad that you skipped your childhood. So she sends you back in time I know creative time not skyward sword. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sorry. You know creative time Yeah, so she sends you back in time to relieve your childhood and While you go back in time you go to warn Zelda and then the events that happened when you first played through Occurring of time end up not happening. So it creates two Timelines then there's a third timeline split that was announced with Hyrule Historia And that is where Link's going to fight Ganon trying to defeat him and he ends up failing It's inferred that he dies And that creates the third split where Ganon ends up winning And that's where most of the old games take place in the next to the past Zelda 2 Look between worlds is over there too. So there are some newer games, but that's where That's where all of the currently known splits come from. However, obviously the fact that there's a split created off of death Kind of means there's an infinite possibilities of splits with the series Which Nintendo might have done on purpose because they always they don't really want to ever be held back By story, but yeah, my story like lore wise They have a really cool story reason to do something but they're like Oh, we can't because like that character already died or this happened or that they can come up with infinite excuses It's basically like the multiverse in DC comics and Marvel now They're like, oh, well we got this character and this timeline so we can keep them going Except they reset their universe a lot all the time all the time Zelda Zelda has yet to do that Knock on the you might get to that point. We get that might be a topic for another day So in terms of is there gonna be a game about Ganon's side? I Have no idea I think the closest the closest we got to that was Ganondorf story mode in Hyrule Warriors But otherwise, I guess not we're probably not. Yeah, and Hyrule Warriors, you know is a spin-off game And then I can and so none of that It matters. You don't shift alone in length like I do Nate Totally cannon couple. Oh boy. No, I do not I mean, I guess it's possible since Nintendo always likes to do really really Innovative stuff at least when it comes towards a gameplay design But in terms of an actual game where Ganondorf is like the lead I'm not particularly sure like that seems kind of out there in all honesty, but maybe it's gonna come sooner than we think Yeah, the only thing I could point to is again Miyamoto back during E3 this year stated a very interesting quotable side games I don't have the quote right in front of me I did bring it up in a prior podcast episode where he essentially said that they've been looking into side games And that they're not opposed to doing side games for Zelda and that one particular Idea they had for a side game had to do with Sheik Which is you know one of the more obvious things it because fans have been asking what happened in those seven years For a long time and seeing it through the eyes of Sheik aka Princess Zelda. Sorry spoiler warning. I Total I totally play that game though Just just totally blew blew anyone's mind. He was not play doctrine. Oh, you gotta put a survival warriors Yeah, I put a spoiler warning before I say it. I know not after So that I'm sorry, I tend not to spoiler warning. It's over 10 years old as I said in my video actually It's like that's 20 years later So yeah, I don't really I You know it's possible, you know if they do the Sheik thing obviously that would be kind of like a princess elder story They could easily do again in one if they want and obviously what happens in the downfall timeline like when link dies That would be a really cool thing to follow And that's just one possibility obviously you could really pick any game you could pick Twilight princess You could pick only to the past. There's so many different games You could pick and just play Ganondorf side of things and see what what he's seen his perspective And I always thought that would be really cool in the Wind Waker given what we know of his perspective Isn't exactly holy evil and it'd be really cool to see how he got to that point So I always thought it would be cool But I you know we don't know until until a side game. That's not like a Hyrule Warriors like a canon story-based side game Happens I don't it's hard for me to say it's going to happen for Ganon granted tingle ended up having his own series So that was it wasn't really like Sold widely though. So it wasn't like it did okay in Japan to have a trilogy in Japan Well, he's that's the only place that likes him. Oh, that's me tingle kind of strikes me as like a horror character like someone you would You're gonna diss my hero like that But I'm 30 Someday I'm gonna put on some spandex and pretend I'm a kid again. It's just gonna happen Someday every day. I just don't own this fan-dex part. That's the only thing Yeah, so I hope that kind of answers things for you Charlie Obviously, we have no idea if there's ever gonna be a game, but the splits are clearly explained. So You didn't know that they're they're explained. Yeah, there's a lot of disagreement that Especially with the third split the downfall timeline and but you can get in all those debates out there with the lots and lots of Other fans, but that's what where the splits happen Skyward Sword really has nothing to do with the splits yet unless there's a new split that we don't know about Yeah Because there I think there was a theory out there camera which youtuber was by about a potential for This game breath of the wild the new one coming out next year potentially splitting off into a separate timeline from Skyward Sword, but We'll see we'll see The next fan topic we have comes from David Johnston again, all these come from our Facebook page Which Zelda game in your opinion has the most well-written characters? Majora's Mask. Majora's Mask or Skyward Sword as well. Yeah, but I still say Majora's Mask first I know Nate really likes Skyward Sword and the characters in that game are very well-written, but like there's At the same time you have Midna from Twilight Princess. Yeah, but there's more Like more characters that are given depth in Majora's Mask. Oh, totally. Each side character is given a struggle is given They're given a backstory and how I think I'm talking about this in whatever editorial I'm writing right now Not currently, but you know about how each Character isn't necessarily affecting the story, but they're being affected by the story and we're being shown how The events of Majora's Mask are affecting them personally like the cafe and Andrew storyline So it has very well-written characters with real emotions and real struggles and yeah There's like there's pretty well-written characters in Skyward Sword But if you really think about that, that's just a lot of tropey characters Like you've got you've got Groose who's a tropey character who I'll admit has a very good character development But that he's very tropey Yeah It's it's still very well-written just not as well written as Majora's Mask in my factual opinion No, I agree with you. I just made a video about it You can hear my opinion there, but No Majora's Mask is really it's Also very like all the characters are super emotional too Like you get a more attached to these weird side characters than you do some of the main characters in most other games In my opinion Yeah, I think It's hard to say any other game, but Majora's Mask and that's not because You know the writing I think overall has at times been better for specific characters Like I think Ganon's writing and the Wind Waker might be the epitome of villain writing that I have seen in the Zelda series Well, he was slightly sympathetic in that game too. He wasn't yeah Well, yeah, it was obviously a different it was a different take on him as well But it's like the most we've actually seen from that character beyond he's just the evil guy who wants to destroy the world You know, obviously there's the theories about trying to protect his people and yeah, but But yeah, like too much I would suppose like my favorite written character now, right? You really think about it would have to be Colin in Twilight Princess Basically like in the beginning of let's say the game He's always getting picked on by the other kids and such and always looks up to Link And then basically around the Kakariko portion where you know the King Bulblin comes in and just Is going to ran over one of the girls. I forgot what her name was But then like he was about to run away and he didn't and I love that show don't tell kind of mechanic I was gonna run away like all the others But then he stopped and then wondered oh what would link would do then he went back and actually save the girl But he got captured and said and then and then basically was saying that he wanted to be strong like link And that really like from an emotional level That really really like hit you and I think that's one of my high points in Twilight Princess's writing. I Could totally agree with that. Yeah, and that's what's that's what's tough about this question is because there's a lot of Individual characters that Nintendo has written very very well But when we're talking about you know because he says which is all the game like I think of the whole game it's hard for me to say anything but Majora's Mask because Majora's Mask is the only game so far in the series in my opinion at least where the characters are What make the world matter? All the other games you're just told go save this land go save your sister go save Zelda You know the characters are there, but they're not necessarily relevant. They're not really driving you to want to save the world Because you know if you think of the beginning of our Jorah's Mask Everything you're doing is for a selfish reason You Skull Kid came jacked your stuff put a curse on you and all you're really trying to do is just get back To where you were with the Pona and no curse like that's the basis for you Trying to do anything in Majora's Mask, but then Something happens when you just start talking to anyone even if you don't talk to the characters in Clock Town Just the progression of the characters speeches throughout the dungeons It's kind of set up in this way where it makes you care about the people And it starts being where Termina isn't really a land per se It's like a piece of land that you're just protecting from getting destroyed. It's People that you're protecting from getting destroyed It's the only game in the series that makes me feel like these characters matter that they have lives That they care about what's going on in the world that they're affected by the world around them and A lot of other games aren't like that even in like Twilight Princess as amazing as Colin is as amazing as I think Midna is in that game. I even like Xanth's progression up until You know spoiler warning Ganondorf kind of jacks the story. I that's the only thing I don't like about Xanth's progression, but Then you go to Castle Town and you just have all these irrelevant characters you can't even interact with All over the place like it just kills the experience for me Like why do I care about these people who are just there to clutter? No one gets a crap. No one's affected by anything Besides, you know, obviously the resistance is there But you know again, those are a few characters out of the hundreds I'm seeing on my screen that I can't even interact with Well, the resistance characters really aren't fleshed out either. No, I know there's issues with them, too Yeah, yeah, they're not examples of they're interesting characters Yeah, but I just want more from them. Yeah, they're kind of like we had this really great idea But they never flushed it up. Mm-hmm. That's what those those characters kind of fell like to me So it's hard for me it majority is mass just as a collective You know, I there's been better written individual characters But there hasn't been a better world built around those characters and that's kind of what majority's mass did with that so Yeah, I mean even if you look at it To date to this day all character interactions are basically compared to majority's mask And there's a reason for that, you know A lot of the Wind Waker's best interactions with characters are stuff that started in majority's mask Just the basis of how the stories are told How those characters, you know, grow up and inspire like you know in Skyward Sword I really love how they do the story and how they handle the characters, but again It's really only in Skyloft And Yeah, there are other characters, but they're just they're not well Like you have the traveling Goron and stuff that like okay cool, but he doesn't seem to be negatively impacted by anything so You know, whatever he's just traveling making some maps like okay cool You know, you have the robots and there's a lot of like interesting things where you want to learn some history of the land But there's nothing that makes you outside of maybe Maybe the spirits or the dragons and stuff Maybe they make you kind of wonder a little bit more but again those are minor moments When in majority's mask every moment feels like it impacts people agree that is how the game was built It's not just how the characters were written. It's how they're built around the time mechanic So there's a lot more elements to that with that might never again exist in a Zelda game Because I don't think any Zelda games gonna try to put a specific limit on the entire game like that Because it is a lot easier to build characters out in a way Where they just do that same thing for 72 straight hours in the game, and that's it You know versus having a big open world like Breath of the Wild where you can potentially have years of you know People to spend in years in-game traveling around and having those characters have something going on different every single day for years Those are that's us a little more simplistic But I think that's like the whole point of Animal Crossing right that's not really the whole point of Zelda So if you can have that in Zelda, it's great, right like Majora's Mask, but Yeah, yeah, so that's what that's I think that's why in other games We have seen Majora's Mask like side quests Majora's Mask like characters Where they have relationships and things are going on you're trying to help them out And I think we're gonna get a lot of that in Breath of the Wild I think a lot of the villages themselves that we end up discovering are gonna be built around that Majora's Mask like A really tight-knit community that's affected by the world around them And it's gonna make you want to do more than just go defeat the bad guy That's what I'm getting. I have no idea Probably not. Will it be infinite? Well, we'll be able to see other players in the game. Oh Yes Definitely, it's very very unlikely the world is so big okay, but yeah The open-air world with procedurally generated trees Anyways, so yeah, I hope we gave you some stuff to think about David Obviously a lot of big heavy lean towards Majora's Mask, but we brought us some other games. I have you know individual really great characters So yeah Pretty much everything I feel like from Majora's Mask on there's an example in the game of You know a handful of characters that have done really really well the story Chris Forbes He says with when we with Wind Waker HD We saw the addition of tingle bottles which added limited social interaction between players online Would you like to see Breath of the Wild use a similar method for interaction and how could it help or hinder the game? so I have like I Instantly think of dark souls little like messages. Yeah, that's just what pops into my head right away like well That's basically what tingle bottles are. Yeah, they're pretty much the same thing I just imagine them being like, you know right before you go into a dungeon. It's like well Here like be prepared for this this or this Whenever you go into the dungeon, which you know, you could probably turn on or off to make the game easier or difficult I don't think it's gonna be nearly as difficult as a Dark Souls game But that's also things. What is it? I think zombie you one of the first Games for the Wii U and had areas where people could put messages on the wall. Yeah, like that like that was really cool There's other give the Splatoon has that in some ways in the main town actually has it some of the maps to Where some Evers stuff comes up on the walls. I don't think we're gonna see anything like multiplayer You know, you're gonna be able to run it to like Kind of like in Hyrule Wars where you have like the ghost characters that you can get online that like Come into the game that you can like not that kind of interaction I'm thinking like we said more along the lines of the Dark Souls messages on the ground or tingle bottles or What have you and that's that's the only thing that I could think really that Nintendo would do I don't think we're gonna get any of that to be honest. Well, I'm just just Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Cuz like he says, you know, would you like to see breathalyze some of the breath that I not really And now that's not the same I dislike tingle bottles I am mad that that's how they replace the tingle tuner Like they did have this content, you know already in the game and then with a game that already has a game pad That you should just be able to hand off to a friend so they could drop bombs Like it's the one time that the tingle tuner might have actually got played with and they just decided to be lazy and cut it out And replace it with tingle bottles probably to help push me verse at the time or something. I don't know I Thought that the tingle bottles themselves were kind of interesting Even though, you know, most of the tingle bottles were Useless, you know, they come from your friends or floating around It is kind of cool You know if you if you have a buddy that you never can I ain't going back and forth hiding you know With we don't really hide it because you don't control the tingle bottles are but You know, you go back for trying to find all of each other's messages, you know and trying to put them together Like I had a buddy who I I must have made I don't know how many tingle bottles, but he found every single one of them It was it was over 50 of them and he put together Basically what my next editorial was going to be at Zell the Department I had it all spread out through the game. So anyone who was friends of me on my Wii U Account they could have potentially gotten my entire editorial before it ever went live. Oh, wow So it was kind of just a cool thing. I was kind of throwing out there See if anybody spot picked it up and someone actually did they found every single bottle and put it together They also found like typos in it, but I was I was retyping my entire editorial on the Wii U gamepad. So give me a break Anyways using the limitations of the tingle bottle I thought there was some really cool interactions that you could do with it kind of like that But it just breath of water doesn't feel a game that needs that It's a game built on all this Explorative stuff and I feel like there could be some confusion I see something somewhere a symbol or a message That might be like yeah, is that from another player? Is that from the game? Because this world is huge this world is really about being by yourself again You know, obviously you're always linked, but like it doesn't appear you have a companion in this game it doesn't appear you rely upon anything but yourself and If you start throwing multiplayer tingle bottles into the mix, you know Tingle bottle like things or messages on walls. It kind of breaks that little immersion you have with that world In kind of a weird way, this is just my overall opinion with Breath of the Wild it almost feels like Breath of the Wild is like the ultimate like Zelda game and Multiplayer as much as I enjoy the multiplayer Zelda games as much as I enjoy the tingle bottles That's not really what the core of Zelda is about So for them to like build this game that I think is really establishing or re-establishing the core of Zelda It just it doesn't need it Plus I think it would be really difficult for them because they're gonna have a split player base between the Wii U and NX as well So that might be that might be difficult for them to even try to do something like that Well, I mean as long as it's the Miiverse, it wouldn't be a problem. Yeah. Yeah, if it's a Miiverse I don't think Miiverse is going anywhere. They might rebrand it Maybe they won't I mean me's might not be going anywhere at all So maybe they won't I know they're trying to get away from the Wii branding, but Who knows they might they might not redo it, but yeah Daniel and McIntyre you guys been kind of silent got any thoughts well I was gonna say something and then you said it I was just gonna say if they did like a tingle bottle sort of thing I'd probably just turn it off because in other games where I've had like Miiverse messages like Even just like platformers like playing Super Mario maker or how even the Yoshi's Bully World I tend to ignore them because they are like yo, they like spoil that basically, you know And I can't discover these things for myself. So I just like ignore them or turn them off completely Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I feel like you said Zelda is not that sort of experience where you're like Sort of hunting around it with other players and finding things With other places more of a more solo explorative you're out in the world by yourself Learning and yeah, and so I feel like yeah, like you said it would just break the immersion for me personally Plus tingle bottles made a lot of sense. Oh in game like in the ocean world Yeah, it made sense like how you know, maybe it does it because we had never seen it before But like we a lot of us have seen movies and TV the old messages in a bottle thing So while it wasn't a certain original idea it was still one of those like okay, you can kind of see this Yeah, I worked in universe, but I think Like in Breath of Wad you couldn't there's not really I can't think of an explanation that would work For leaving messages around the carbon entry. I don't know just with how much there is to explore in the Demo area. I don't really The game doesn't need it. I guess is one way to put it I get trying to build like a sense of community around it, but I'm basically have a same thought as well Doesn't really need it if it's there. It's there. I guess. Um, I Was having an interesting conversation with another YouTube by name of Luke Crane He pretty much brought the idea that I believe I talked about this in a previous podcast That Breath of the Wild is a very casual game in a sense. You could play it Let's say go through a shrine and just put it down for number 15 minutes and that whole mechanic and I'll actually Revolve around let's say having the whole casual mood between Breath of the Wild So it could have it could not frankly. I'm not real. I won't lose any hair if it wasn't like So if it's there, it doesn't really needed my opinion, but yeah Yeah, so there you go We kind of got a little bit if it could help or hinder the game It seems to the most probably none of us really feel it's gonna be a big help to the game And there's a little concern about hindering not so much like holding the game back But maybe be breaking a little bit of that immersion of playing by yourself Which this game clearly puts you like thrust you into that whole thing at the very beginning so We'll see. We'll see You know, we have no I'm for all we know there's an entire dungeon built around me verse Oh boy We enter we enter the interwebs So you have to play through the dungeon and work with the tips people have left behind for you to solve it What what happens the first guy to ever enter that dungeon? right Anyways So we got two more good fan topics I am literally copying and pasted them into a document that I have now created today Saving these topics. So I don't just say we're gonna get to him next time. We will this time Because we got some stuff to talk about here Not necessarily news because there's been a lot of interesting news going on lately not necessarily so much for Nintendo Unless you want to talk about Super Mario run Which we're not really good top of that much for those in all Super Mario run is a new mobile game Nintendo announced coming out later this year It's free to start and then there's a one-time payment after a certain amount to get the rest of the game Which is how you should do free-to-play? That's the exact exact. Well. Pick Ross. What's sort of like a free demo then. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Different ways. Yeah free-to-play. I think there is like room in the market for games that charge you incremental amounts kind of Pokemon But this is not like that type of games like this seems like it's a whole game like a full game that They're gonna let you try first So it actually makes a lot of sense. I wish they would do this with all of their console games actually Well, they should because like that's what convinced me to buy Pikmin 3 as I got the free demo Even think about for Breath of the Wild seems crazy, but just release that opening area as a demo and literally Have it so the player when they download a demo can only download that area so they can't really see anything now do it now And then like people could try the game and just do the demo area And then if they want to get further you got to buy the full 60 delegate That's like the length of a full game just that demo That's the length of some indie games. Okay, maybe not as all the game, but I haven't played it you played it So yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot to see you do just that demo area So obviously I didn't see and do all of it, but by now I think over all the videos and post Coverage I've seen of it. I think I've now seen everything there is to see in that area That doesn't mean everything that's possible to do with the crazy physics engine has been done yet I think I'll be highly surprised if there's something I discovered When I get the game or a review copy or I play it, you know the day it comes out like the rest of you If there's something there that I haven't seen unless it's content that Nintendo pulled out of the demo Well, there'll be weather effects as an example. We haven't seen that. Yeah Yeah, if you guys want to hear about mobile games. We talked about that last podcast too. Yeah Just go listen to that one. It just so happened that a huge game mobile game I announced right over there. Oh, yeah That's just the way it goes. Yep. Just like now. We're gonna talk about I got I got three topics here I get my time. We're going for this We're gonna talk a little bit about the Wii U because We're kind of reaching the end for the Wii U We have confirmed, you know titles for 3ds coming next year So the 3ds at least has one more year rumors say it has two more years Whatever the case may be the 3ds still has at least another year to go. The Wii U is getting some games this year It'll you know, it's getting Breath of the Wild technically next year And who knows it'll probably get the next Just Dance game next year or something too but in all reality the Wii U is essentially at the end of its life and It's had an interesting path a very different path than any other Nintendo console in the past has had Even different than the virtual boy because that was just an outright flop that died right away The Wii U, you know setting aside virtual boy is the worst traditional home console that Nintendo has had in terms of sales and When we're five years ten years down the road How are we like, how are you guys because I know how I feel about this And I want to let you guys kind of go on this topic a bit How are you guys going to remember the Wii U like what's it going to mean to you when someone says hey, you remember that Wii U I Actually think the price of Wii U's the consoles online like let's say 20 years down the line will actually increase and the amount Like let's say we use will be pretty valuable down the road since it hasn't really sold that much in this generation I think looking back at it's like let's say 20 years from now or let's say the next century happens in 2300 or something like that People actually look at the Wii U very fondly For example Smash Brothers for the Wii U 3DS Super Mario 3D world. I love the soundtrack for that game by the way And there's so many others that people probably look very fondly like the thing is what the Wii U is that the gamepad wasn't really Utilized to its maximum potential like of course there were games that utilized it But there weren't really a whole lot that really brought it towards its fullest potential in the sense that it could bring out new Innovative gameplay like what Nintendo originally intended And the fact that like when it was originally launched there weren't really a whole lot of enticing launch titles There was zombie you and new Super Mario Bros. You and that was really about it unless I'm missing something And the lack of marketing and I remember a friend of mine He was a manager over at GameStop and he would always tell me like People were confused on what the difference was between the Wii U and the Wii and that that confusion Mayor Minots probably has had a detrimental effect in terms of marketing the system in the first place So looking back at it I think it'll be a source of both comforts But also a warning of not to repeat the same mistakes of the Wii U if that makes sense Yeah, I agree. I think I feel like the Wii is the new Dreamcast Like like that's a great system everyone who had a Dreamcast loved it They was talking about how great the games on it were but it like did not sell well enough to sustain and like well Nintendo's not gonna like fold like Sega did in the console market, but I Do have to make one correction on it to be fair the Dreamcast before it was like What was it the month after the Dreamcast launch or something like that is when Sega announced that they were getting out of Consoles like they had already been so far in debt from like the Sega CD and like launching new console like every two years That the Dreamcast actually sold really well, but it was too late. Yeah Well, there was other mistakes that that led up to it. I think it had a different lead up But I just mean in the way people Sort of will look back on it like now you sure when people look back at the Dreamcast like I got there's so caliber and all these all these great games And it was a great console that no one loved and crazy taxi guys of Arcadia and I think that's like how people will feel about the Wii U now like I love my Wii U But like Andy said I like when it came out. I didn't know I saw it in the store one day, and I was like, what is that? There's a new console. I didn't even know and Yeah, no, and then it took me years before I didn't end up getting one until Smash and Mario Kart were announced and then I was like, okay I'm gonna get one now and then there was the Zelda trailers and I was like great a new Zelda probably later this year um It's worth the wait, but Yeah, I like I love my Wii is my favorite console of any console I've owned and that's quite a few But like I don't know I know like two other people that have a Wii U and one of them is my brother Yeah, I for for me I Remember the first C3 that they showed off the Wii U the very first C3 and we were just shown the controller And I was with my friends and we were all like what the heck is that thing? And then they left the stage and we still didn't know what the Wii U was and that was their way of marketing it And then they marketed it later on quote-unquote marketed and then we have what we have now And you know there are some really good games on it But the thing is is I don't think like if you look at Sony and you look at Microsoft you could kind of like pick out a few genres that They're like they always have on their console like Sony typically has JRPGs And they both have shooters about that first person shooters both have a bunch of different stuff But there's like different things that they instantly like you you think of oh well It's a Sony console so it's gonna have JRPGs on like Final Fantasy or my mind's blanking on literally all the other possible JRPGs But I kind of I look at the Wii U and like look at it's it's crazy Lifespan and see like all the different things like the lack of direction that it has and then I look at the games that are Upcoming and there's two things that I kind of want to like Say about the Wii U one of them is that the upcoming lineup is so bad For the rest of its lifespan like it's just awful like the popular the popular Wii U games coming soon According to IGN or Paper Mario Feller splash just dance Exiles and shantae half genie hero, which has been out so long already Skylanders and Grand Prix rock and racing so those aren't like oh man Those are some great triple part triple a party games that we're getting from the Wii U It's like here's one Nintendo game and then You know the hey, we finally got an accident verge Way after it's a Nintendo game that has a lot of proving to do too because there's been a recent history of That particular franchise not doing well. Yeah, and I look at that. I also look at this past direct Or they're like, oh, hey, you know how you love Yoshi's wily world We're gonna take that and just gonna throw it on the 3ds but add more to it So it's like so what you're telling me is the 3ds the new 3ds can run a Wii U game And it doesn't exactly inspire confidence with me with the console And I think I don't remember if you talked about a McIntyre or if Dan Don talked about it last time But someone said that the Nintendo hasn't been about like Competing in the video game market with their consoles or the power of their consoles and they've talked about that in the past How they're not here to compete But that kind of shows in their success or lack of success, especially with the Wii U Like at what point does innovation trump like, you know power and technology and quality of the game because you know, I look at the it was playing replaying Fire Emblem path of radiance and the opening cutscene for that game Was just as good as the cutscenes and Super Smash Brothers Brawl and was just a little bit worse than the Wii U version cutscene So it's like the power for the console really wasn't that great. I know it's not all about power It's about the exclusives in the games, but it's like the Wii U I'd say it's the worst console to date. It has great games on it, but it's still one of their worst Like just just how it's done. Just just in general. I love it, but it's it's it's not their strongest strongest console by far yeah The Wii U is interesting for me because for starters it is the perfect console Perfect console perfect console for me. They made a Console that pretty much only appealed well not only but much Massively appeals to someone like me and someone like me is a very rare Person especially at the time as the years have gone on. I haven't really been that person anymore But when I first got a Wii U The other thing I cared about was off TV play. There was one TV in the whole house. I had children There was no way in heck I was gonna win a fight with them or my girlfriend for TV time I was lucky I could watch Game of Thrones at the time And that was only because I got my girlfriend into it And now that we have multiple TVs in the house like she's not into it anymore surprise surprise But it's it's one of those that I Don't need the off TV feature anymore now. So now it doesn't really appeal to me as much I don't think I've used the off TV feature in two years now But at the time in that specific situation It was the perfect console for me because it let me play games console games home console game not just 3ds anywhere in my house Yeah, and the thing is is like like you brought up, you know Oh, it's bringing over these games and the thing is Nintendo themselves has never really been outside of a few Select franchises they have been making the kind of games that you need a whole lot of processing power a lot of GPU power And a lot of that's just because the art direction their games going Mario Galaxy if they just put it in HD Would look just as good as pretty much every modern game coming out on the PlayStation 4 and the Xbox one Or now the PlayStation Pro coming out You know maybe not in 4k But whatever you get my point the point is that the game doesn't won't look dated compared to all those other games because the art Direction is at that point that it eliminates a lot of the extra visual fidelity that certain art styles and directions require and If you look at the Wii use library It's all of it's like best-selling games are built of that kind of that kind of really Stylistic art style. That's more. I don't want to say cartoony, but that's that's kind of the feeling I get from it It's more animated. It's not like realistic and grungy. Well, like like I'm just thinking back You know some of the most gorgeous games on the system are what my 3d world Mario Kart Donkey Kong tropical freeze Splatoon looks really good I'd still say Tokyo Mara Tokyo Mara sessions looks awesome But again Pokemon Raj sessions also if you compare it to similar art styles and other consoles does look dated Yeah, so does you know by Chronicles? Oh, that's because those art styles Can be done better on like those are the kind of art styles that do benefit from beefier hardware they're not really the kind of things that Nintendo typically focuses on and Zelda is kind of also one of those things that outside of going in the direction of the Wind Waker This is the kind of stuff that like Zelda needs to improve like their physics engine improve the stuff They're doing for a while. They need more power like that makes a big difference in a game like that But Nintendo in general doesn't have a lot of popular franchises that need That kind of power to be successful And I think that's why you can see like Yoshi's really world coming to 3ds It probably won't be the only Wii U game ported over well We also got Super Mario maker. So yeah Super Mario maker two in one go Yeah, yeah, and you know speaking to Super Mario maker like Super Mario maker was you know Supposedly the ultimate proving ground for why the game pad matters like what the innovation is with it It didn't really prove to me that that's what the innovation of the console is It just proved to me that that's the most obvious thing that should be happening And why it doesn't happen in Minecraft on Wii U is beyond me Feel like it's not like cause it's the opposite of cause and effect like it's not that this is the most innovative way to use the game pad But more Super Mario maker is like that's the best way to make Super Mario maker work Yeah, so it just like it would would be like if they would actually do it with Minecraft It would be the best way to play Minecraft They just won't do it because it's not worth the investment for them And I think the problem with the Wii U and even inherently the Wii is that they were based around a single gameplay mechanic and The Wii executed that very well within the first several years of its lifespan like you saw a lot of games You know we got the the motion control games like out Everywhere now because it executed it well you could say that it didn't execute it as well as could have But it executed it pretty well like we have games like yeah one of my personal favorites is Ella bits love that game Some people probably have no idea what it is It was a it was one of those proving games for the Wii and why it worked But for the Wii U like it's whole like you said the whole thing about it was the second screen like that was what it focused on was was the Wii U game pad and When it was based around that whole thing, you know, it didn't really use it It didn't really use it to its fullest. I think the most interesting way I've seen it used is in Tokyo Mirage Sessions As like the phone the little phone pad in the map But at the same time, you know When you base it all around one singular gameplay mechanic It's gonna fizzle out at some point like that's of course. That's just the way it's gonna happen And so, you know, that's that's what you're not seeing with stuff like I hate I hate that I keep comparing it But with the with the PlayStation and with Xboxes, they're not built around like oh well To play the PlayStation you have to like stand upside down or like stand on your head and spin around like breakdance It's you have a controller and you play the game and you could tilt the controller You can move it around and I think that you know That's one of the things about being very apprehensive about for the NX is Is it based around a singular gameplay mechanic? Is it based around, you know The second screen is that gonna be like the biggest selling feature of the game? And so that's that's another topic, but yeah, like like I keep thinking, you know What do I think of the Wii U today because I did a boss man episode a couple of months ago now where I said that the Wii U is my favorite console because It has all the games. I want to play on it, but a large percentage of those games are virtual console games So I'm getting a lot of the games I grew up with plus. I do think that it does have a stellar exclusive library You know anytime I can possibly bring it up I will mention the wonderful one-on-one is like one of the best games in the generation that literally hardly like No one has played It's not easy to play though. It's not easy to play. The thing is It's already like in a niche genre with a niche game within that genre Like it's just not something that's good to appeal especially on the surface to a lot of people But I just love it and that's kind of the way I feel with a lot of the library now ten twenty years So now I might look back and be like, oh, well, you know I'm not really thinking much about those those Wii U games anymore. I'm not thinking of Pikmin 3 I'm not thinking about Splatoon outside of the fact that if Splatoon becomes a massive franchise. I'll know okay. It started So there's a lot of things that I'm not gonna think about it might almost be like the GameCube to me where when I think back of the GameCube There's I draw a blank a lot of time There's excellent games on the GameCube there really is and I know that But it didn't leave a lasting impression with me and like the N64 Like the Super Nintendo didn't I think that's the NES did I think that's mostly a product of when like your generation too though Like not like as in your generation is where you are But like when you started gaming and so like I didn't really see let's see the Wii left an impression Yeah, like a positive impression. I know a lot of people. Oh, it's terrible like actually the Wii was brilliant They made a lot of sense that you were talking about how oh you just pick up a controller and play in the PlayStation They don't really focus on this big innovative stuff. Yeah, they're doing some VR But it's kind of all an aside. That's not like what they're pushing as the main go-to for the platform Well Nintendo let's head and said look that's great But there's all these people that they pick up one of those controllers and there's too many buttons It's too foreign to them the Wii made sense It was simplistic it had only the amount of buttons You needed to play Nintendo's games and the motion controls just made sense But you're also talking about the games that made a lasting impression And you said that you couldn't really think of a GameCube And I look back at the Wii's life cycle and just without thinking off the top of my head There's only like two or three games that immediately snap into my head. Oh, you're both killing me Just off the top of my head because the GameCube is possibly my favorite console of all time Sure, sure, and there are games that I really really do like on the Wii U And I'll probably remember those games more Then on the Wii and I don't I don't know why I think the only game on the Wii U that I'm gonna remember for sure is Donkey Kong and Tropical Freeze That was a good one. Good game. Because To date I personally feel it is the best 2D platformer I've ever played and I've played a crap load of them and so that's like a really bold statement It's not like It's a massively underrated game. I mean there's other people that think it's like the best 2D platform reverts as well, but it's Man in our very crowded genre like it stands out to me I'd agree. Yeah, it's a good game I like it a lot and a lot of people wrote it up because you know we just had country returns like that's great But yeah, but you got like Dixie Kong. This is way this is way better like it took it to a whole new level But it kind of fits my whole not so much as sort of the games I mean maybe I was pushing it too far to say in the games because honestly, you know if you're if you're someone right now You're you're 12 15 16 18 whatever in your girl You grew up with the Wii the last four years You are probably gonna be really fond towards a lot of the games I mean this might have been your first Smash Bros. Game you played this might have been the first time you experienced Mario Kart I'm so sorry today's Well, I'm Mario Kart was good. I know I'm just saying like the classics man like melee is still my favorite. Yeah Yeah, I never understood the love for melee to be out. Different conversation just keep going keep going But of course, it's game to you so No, so like You know, I look back cuz I keep thinking I look back at something on the game cubes probably the system that I looked down on the most in terms of Not fulfilling what I thought it would fulfill for me at the time And the thing is I played a ton of the like I played the crap one of the game People as I grew up like I obviously had a good time I just when I look back on it now it did feel as fulfilling to me And I think with the Wii U the problem I'm gonna have with that It's gonna look I'm gonna look back on it be like hey the Wii U was basically the console that Nintendo didn't know what the heck They were doing it feels like a beta test for the NX if it's gonna be able. Yeah I mean, we don't know if the NX is what we're hearing that it's gonna be it's like we tried it with the Wii U What can we improve on it to get the NX? That's yeah, which sounds like a totally terrible idea Yeah, you know, we're selling console. Let's just do that again, but differently. Yeah But no like it just think about it like we talked a lot about the gamepad You know, which very clearly Nintendo themselves didn't have a heck of a lot of good ideas for that gamepad that Was supposed to be this big innovative thing and it ended up not being that at all In fact the games that force the gamepad usage are usually the games that are like the least Because it doesn't feel as good as just a traditional control scheme did it's not even like in Star Fox Zero it's not that it's even terrible. It's just it's not as good. It's not as precise It's not adding anything to the game That people are fundamentally enjoying with those motion controls That's why a lot of people that play Star Fox Zero end up trying to ignore the motion controls as much as they can Because it doesn't feel good And that's what they kind of lost with the gamepad is outside of the very obvious uses like in Super Mario Maker A poor inventory on the screen that stuff felt right because hey you have an extra screen So why not but it didn't really feel like it added anything to those games Maybe zombie you probably had the best usage of the gamepad Where it actually made it fundamental to the game and added suspense to a game by like removing like your view From the screen to try to hack a door on your gamepad actually added suspense to that game but again, that's like Ubisoft not Nintendo and Nintendo seems really dry with ideas and it's not just that they have the TV button on there which I'm sure most people on a Wii you totally ignore it even exists Hey, I use it. I use it. I I use it too But like but how many people are like man, I got to get this thing that's got a TV remote Or I think that's like it launched with like the Nintendo TV Like program that was supposed to be with it and that thing totally bombed out and was terrible from the get-go Because the system was actually not even powerful enough to do what they wanted to do with it Because the with a number one issue with Nintendo TV besides being almost entirely pointless since you're not running a path like it Would have this on it was like a good idea on the Xbox one that has a TV pass through Yeah, so like you combine your Netflix and your TV together that sounds like a brilliant idea for like Xbox Don't know why they haven't done it But Nintendo had that idea it could have did something with it Especially with all the streaming services and instead because their system was so weak It was so slow to navigate it was quicker to just find it on my phone and just flip it up to my TV through You know a stick plugged into the back and I think just to use the smart TV features itself instead of the Wii you gain that I think that that's you know like what we were talking about earlier Well, Nintendo doesn't need to like well Nintendo does need to compete in some areas I think that's one of the areas that we saw them compete in and ultimately fail Because that was when you know we had the Xbox like he said was was trying to be an all-in-one console Like not only is it just a A gaming console, but it's also you runs PC type programs on it You can use your TV. I think even the ps4 now. They're having the PlayStation Television service with like over a thousand channels or whatever it is. That's actually a really good deal It is it is whenever I get a ps4. I'm probably gonna end up doing that and But Nintendo That's like you said it wasn't powerful enough and that's not really where they needed to put their focus on Like I understand wanting to control the TV with that and I was like kind of handy sometimes But ultimately it was it was a lot simpler just to change their remote like pick up the physical remote control Or even just walk over to the TV and press the input button I don't know I used it because it was it was way more convenient than having to put the gamepad down and then grab the remotes and yeah You know I sometimes like Well see it's also depending on how you're using it, of course Well try the TV remote functionality was was fine. It didn't work very well with my cable box But that's true. Yeah, whatever that has to do with whatever Nintendo's deciding to support But like the Nintendo TV app itself to you just totally useless if I want to watch TV I'm not using my Wii U. I actually did not use it a single time Like I tried I really tried hard using it that first Super Bowl that they had it up for because they were doing like These like these quizzes and these questions throughout and like you were competing against other people and it would be so slow But by the time I like I'm hitting submit on it It wouldn't go through because the app was lagging so bad Then I would suddenly would not get my answer in for that question and I suddenly missed the next four like it And that might be that might be server capacity to with how many people are trying to access it The reality was that they had all these ideas None of them were up were fully fleshed out. None of them seemed like they were even tested and None of it really kind of went through Anyone that actually handles these programs like handles TV stuff like people in the TV industry Weren't really consulted on it the developers at Nintendo didn't seem to even be consulted on the gamepad idea like because they clearly Ignored it for years. Most of the library are we you from Nintendo? It does not require a gamepad because it's not really something the developers seem to even want to use well Even speaking of Donkey Kong tropical freeze you could turn off the gamepad Yeah screen so it's it's not even necessary in games. Yeah, I mean It's just one of those things where it felt like the upper execs like you know Miyamoto Iwata and others at the time had these ideas But didn't run them by anyone and then just said we're doing them anyways because we were right with the Wii and it's like yeah, but The Wii you almost have to run by developers because hey, you're not gonna have a zillion buttons anymore You're doing motion controls. Well, hey, we're gonna give you a traditional controller But that's basically the only part of this you're gonna like It's just That's what felt weird about it It wasn't that third parties didn't like it like you could see that coming a mile away Unless it blew up and got really popular. Yeah, because even the Wii You know, yeah, I didn't get some some games But it did get a lot more. I mean there was Call of Duty coming out every single year on Wii Because it was a popular platform and it was and Call of Duty itself would sell at least a million copies every year Which made it worthwhile Plus I'd argue that the controls were actually superior on the Wii But that's a debate for another time on if the motion control is better than a traditional controller Well and the benefits using a Nintendo console for a game like that Especially now is that you don't have to pay for online and I really hope that that's something that Nintendo does with the NX Because then they'll have a if they can make a I think that's like yeah Nintendo's at a point. They cannot charge for online. Yeah, well their online hasn't been good enough up to this point Anyway, what it can't like Xbox did it right away, basically they've always charged and they offered a really really good service Like it was the first truly fully functioning online service for a platform For a home console that was popular So like they've always been able to charge Sony wasn't charging when they first started getting to do it now They do and their network is up to snuff like I'm not saying Nintendo can't ever charge But they have a long ways to go before they can get to that point and where their consumers see it as a value Right now their online is nice. It's free. There's a lot of issues with it Why the heck we still even have friend codes around? Why the heck is it really hard to search up buddies that you want to add to your friends list? And it uses really weird ports and like servers. Yeah, really weird stuff So it seems like the internet connections are almost limited when Like at my house not because of your servers. Like it's just really weird So there's there's a lot of things they have to do with that I also you know we keep bringing up the NX a little bit So I'm just gonna quickly get to this one topic. I really wanted to get into We'll see how much time we have to talk about it So we've talked about the NX learning from the Wii U And all that great stuff. What the heck is up with the lack of NX info? We've made fun of in the past That an announcement for an announcement is really silly really stupid Except when it's an announcement for when you're gonna talk about your brand new system It's supposedly coming out in six months like six months from today at some points coming out and We don't even know when they're gonna announce it now. They have like this this GameStop Event coming up or the Wednesday, but they're not gonna talk about it That's not gonna be there if I was gonna be there. They'd be hyping it already like live streaming and all that stuff so I Guess I'm really frustrated at this point which maybe I shouldn't be But when have we ever been like this close to a launch and we still don't know what this thing is all we know is rumors all we know our Various reports out there You know supposedly like there's a look at been a new software development kit There's a new rumor. I think it just came out today The new SDK just is like getting primed or release which might be the final one before release I Guess I am just really frustrated With the lack of info and I don't know if I should be like Should I be frustrated like should fans be out there just be like man? What the hell is Nintendo doing? Well, I feel like part of what they're doing is they're just like keeping us in the dark to keep us sort of Guessing keep us talking about it keeping it a popular subject because like we always know there's gonna be a new console like every five or four six years however long but like this is the first time At least that I've noticed that like people have been talking about it this much and Maybe well, I'm listening more I feel like it's it's them sort of keeping us guessing, you know Yeah, but the we're talking because of leaks supposed leaks. Yeah, not talking cuz a Nintendo Nintendo's not creating any of this You've been quiet Personally have a particular theory on why there's so much little information in terms of the NX I guess the best point in terms of a reference state and when to try to figure out why Nintendo has been so fixated is That if you take a look at the Japanese yen When the Wii U was released the value of the yen was at an absolute low I had to look up the exact numbers for it, but it was pretty pretty low Even Kimishima actually stated in a separate interview that the value of the end being low actually contributed to how Nintendo actually funded marketing for the Wii U and such and he would actually and Due to that he doesn't want the NX to be sold at a loss He basically said those words in some shape or form so how does this like tie into other statements said by let's say Reggie Philzemae and Shigeru Miyamoto and Iji Onuma basically Reggie Philzemae I believe he said in a separate in your I think it was the New York Times I think but like they said they don't want to compete against Microsoft and Sony and they want to do their own thing pretty much Which both of those statements kind of fit hand-in-hand Kimishima says he doesn't want the NX to be sold at a loss And Reggie Philzemae says he doesn't want to be all about the horse power and a gig of flops Which kind of just goes hand-in-hand and then there was an excellent tweet by I believe Emily Rodgers like I know there's very a Controversial thoughts about what Emily Rodgers does but she didn't make a very interesting statement in a Twitter post Saying that Nintendo doesn't really like E3's lately More often than not Nintendo gets a lot of negative feedback at E3 safer this once as birth of the wild pretty much has broke the internet Yeah, it's probably like the most surprisingly brilliant move anyone's ever done in E3 history, I swear, right Like who knew who knew I don't even Nintendo knew yeah, honestly like I I actually sat and watched like all six hours of the live stream And then I was like what am I doing with my day? I can't believe I'm this absorbed into this like more than I've ever been on A E3 presentation on anything ever. It's one of the few I think it's one of the few times they at E3 I was talking to people who go there every year that Oh, no, I think they said it was the only time that Align to get into a booth was closed down within five minutes of the show for opening Like they would not let anyone else get my Because that's all on the line was like the wait for four plus hours Yeah, like like that's crazy Nintendo Nintendo knew that they probably even set up even more kiosk And they already had a hundred and seventy of them Which was way more than like every other booth there in total But yeah, it's sorry go on. No worries So basically in terms of let's say the NX not necessary the competing and Sony or Microsoft being its own thing Kimishima also said that I I'm already assuming you guys already know this I think you restated this and they're not going to go by the wee moniker anymore They're leaving behind the whole wee branding behind So from this we can make I suppose a couple of inferences one thing if they're going by a brand new branding all together There's gonna be a massive media campaign Since if you're not going behind a previous brand you need to market a new brand whatever this brand is I have no idea, but we can make a healthy assumption that they will market it to the extreme And it'll be a red themed That is one marketing change that have made Without talking about the annex yet because they went back to red after the wee started the blue thing Right and so basically Keeping that in mind and seeing that the annex will not be sold at a loss I have a of a mind that Nintendo wants to pull off some sort of a media stunt in the sense of getting like a lot of media Coverage at a very efficient way without having to let's say fork over their own funds to actually do Let's say warm marketing which means like commercials and stuff like that But in order to have the internet work for them to have the annex be splitted out everywhere because right now people are Starving for NX news and that's exactly what Nintendo wants. They want us to be starved. They want us to be like Thirsty for new news and so basically once we're at the point of like, let's say no return And we actually want to learn so much NX news and that we're getting to the point that we just don't care anymore Nintendo will probably showcase the annex. There's a couple of rumors that the annex will be revealed tomorrow I'm not sure if that's the case or not. There's a bunch of rumors going on nowadays But it would it would be Nintendo to not even announce they're gonna announce it and then they're like here Here's the annex. Why do you pay attention to that announcement? Have a good day? Yeah It's weird to me because I Know that Nintendo says, you know, how much they don't care about Sony and Microsoft like they're not trying to compete with them But in order for them to win the internet, those are the people that are gonna help you in the internet They're gonna like when Zelda was destroying at E3. It wasn't just Nintendo fans. That was gamers like Serious core gamers that are on other platforms When I was in line there were people there were people that worked at Sony waiting in the line to go play Breath of the Wild like this is What that's the kind of hype that that just that one title was generating and I think that's the kind of hype they want the annex to generate because that's what's gonna make it sell well and So do you think this is where we're there where they're in the conundrum where the internet You're only gonna win it if you appeal to the people that use the internet and the people who use it are the gamers They're the ones that are gonna make it trend on Twitter They're the ones that are going to make it be over everyone's Facebook walls because the people that are like the soccer bombs that got into we They weren't sitting there on the Facebook at the time because Facebook was around then they weren't sitting on Facebook type it up Oh, man, did you hear about the we they didn't know what that thing was until they saw someone use it in person So like if they're going after a more broad or crowd like that, they can't they're not gonna win the internet now if they're trying to go after the gamers they can win the internet and I think the problem with winning the internet, which is clearly I think what they saw a breath but I think what goes into what you're saying there a little bit is They saw what happened with Breath of the Wilds. It's still like it's still trending on the internet right now and That's what the kind of reaction they want to annex and so waiting for the right time to do that The problem I have is that from this point through the end of the year There really isn't a right time to do that anymore because all the big games are now coming out all the big announcements I'm not coming like we just had the PlayStation Pro announced and now that's gonna be really easy and that's gonna be hyped and all there's a lot of It's already pretty hyped along on the Sony crowd. Yeah, but it's during the disappointment When it was announced it was trending on Twitter now I obviously this did not last as long as Breath of the Wild did so it didn't blow up like Breath of the Wild did But the point is like it's just more big news coming out That's gonna be distracting people who would otherwise only care about like oh, man We like we're star for an example and now we got it. We got to share it with everyone Well, they might not care that all the annex came out. That's great. I just bought Call of Duty last night I don't have time to go top with that. I'm playing Call of Duty with my bloods playing Titanfall 2 playing battlefield 1 I'm playing, you know, whatever big games coming out see the last Guardians coming out now in December instead of whatever Like if it doesn't get delayed again So it's kind of one of those like we're hitting the point where now we're to the point where all people want to play All they want to talk about our games like they just want to play games So like having a console announcement in the midst of all these big games coming out Especially if you're not getting any pledges of support for those kind of big games coming to your platform in the future It's already gonna make people be like, okay annex is coming up But all these great games I want to play right now that platform is never gonna get games like that So we don't care. I think my then you left with Nintendo fans like us Trying to make everyone care Do I think I don't think that's gonna work I think that it was Kimashima that said that part of the reason they delayed the annex was so that they could have Good launch lineup. Yeah. Yeah, that's why it's delayed the next year or well Okay, it wasn't ever announced for to release in 2016 So it technically wasn't publicly delayed, but he definitely made it sound like there was internal delay To make sure that they had more content and let's see like that's that's them making content like yeah that strikes me is learning from the we use mistake cuz like it Whoever someone said earlier in this very podcast that when the Wii U came out There was nothing to play on it except for the Super Mario Bros. I'm learning like it Let's suppose this is like the hybrid thing they've been talking about that already shows They learned from the 3ds and we you that if they are going to be the only people making games in the platform that They cannot support two platforms on their own There's going to be huge gaps in content Because it wasn't like everyone forgets that the 3ds started off just like the Wii U actually worse because at least The Wii U had zombie you and new Super Mario Brothers like three 3ds had what? pilot wings Street Fighter 4 Which are the battle ship game was yeah battleship. Yeah. Yes. Yeah like steel diver It had nothing nothing to anyone cared about people bought it because they wanted to see the 3d with no glasses But then they stopped like it had a really like record like launch weekend sales And then people just stop buying it because there was nothing to play Yeah, they're gonna continue that way until the until the price cut and then they had you know Mario Kart And then they started getting some titles out for it and then the then what's that happened third-party support started coming in a little bit You'll bravely default in games like that So like it has third-party support now But reality is is that the Wii U at 3ds both started out with like nine months of no games Like it launched. Here's a couple games and that might be good or they might not but we'll see you next next Christmas Like not even this year's Christmas next year's Christmas. We'll see you then it's kind of like The only way they can prevent that is having all their games on one platform or Somehow some way convincing third parties to come on board and obviously We've heard good things from third parties so far, but it doesn't really mean anything until they actually announced the game Like Bethesda has come out openly and said hey we like, you know, we like what we're hearing We're we haven't ruled out the nx. Obviously we've ruled it out for What dishonor to but that's because the son or two is almost done So it just doesn't make sense, but it doesn't mean we can't do future games on it And it's kind of like yeah, but all of these companies are all saying the same thing They're beating the exact drum that Nintendo doesn't beat and that's if it has enough power will support it I think the the problem with like going back to How long they're taking for it? How long they're waiting to announce it is it's kind of like the same thing with the last Guardian is That people have known that it's gonna come out for a while like we've known about the last Guardian for like a decade And I've said this before so many people said this before there's no possible way on God's green earth at that game It's gonna live up to expectations of my well, and here's here's the thing about that game And and this is even like because I'm on the gaff. I'm on all these various websites It's losing height. It is not gaining not as good as You as you would think like a lot of people say it doesn't look as good as it should Yeah, it's not it's not even that they're they're like not showing anything that they didn't show back in 2009 Yeah, like it's just like brief extensions of what we've already seen six seven years ago Like okay, can we see what it makes this game great? Yeah, like what what about this game makes it great what makes it stand out Like we haven't seen it so like people like man Is this game just not that great because they don't have nothing to show now They're hoping that that the Tokyo game show ends up You know be in the big blowout for it because that's really the last big show of the year for for that game I get a shot to do that, but The annex can't be doing something like that man Like I know it worked for Breath of the Wild right but like it worked because when they showed Breath of the Wild again They totally did a huge massive blowout Like we know we've knew so little about Breath of the Wild before this past E3 and that was just like a two-year wait What also they did a blowout it was like well timed like it was at a time where we were Listening, you know when we were ready for for this information intake It was also at a time when they didn't have anything else to talk about well, that's Quality over quantity I guess Well like I'm just I'm just looking at The annex and then what's coming out and we've talked about this before on this podcast too is like all this information is coming out That's not confirmed But this is what we're all expecting for the console and that's not necessarily good because if this is the image that they're Like if they don't want to paint this image if they don't if this isn't at all with console supposed to be Then right now we all have the wrong image of the console in our mind And that's like they need to get ahead of this and it's a little it's getting really really late for them to do this Like people are expecting Emily Rogers posted a poll on her Twitter But when do you think they'll announce the annex and a bunch of people said this week? But majority of the votes were for early October and that's kind of what it's looking like right now And that's not good because yeah, that's interesting If she had if she had done that poll three weeks ago, they would have said early September I know and it's it's just like we're imagining it later and later and I Guess the problem is like you said the console is coming up very very soon And we don't know anything about it except that you know we're entering a period where people are about to spend a bunch of money I games. Yeah, I need to know how much money to save Like if people are like, oh, I'll wait. I'll wait. I call a duty I'll wait on this stuff to the price drop and I'll set aside that 60 bucks for the annex Well, they're not gonna do that if they don't even know what it is and if it's totally different than what's being put out there by Media outlets, but yeah, it might make the media looks silly But it also makes Nintendo look stupid too unless they do something that literally is gonna blow people's minds That's totally unexpected and ends up getting people hyped and like, you know Do we think Nintendo can even possibly pull that off that they even know how to pull that off anymore? Because even a e3 breath of the wilds reaction almost seemed like an accident Like they didn't know it was gonna get that big They would have did something totally different with their booth if they had known it was gonna be that big They would have fixed the I mean their live stream for breath of the wild was crashing Because of all the people trying to get in just to see what this game like they had no idea it was gonna be that way So like now we got a thing. Okay, so now Nintendo it wants to intentionally do that I don't know if they can and one of the things that it seems like they're doing and I could this would be so Nintendo to do Would be to pull a fallout 4 and Be like oh hey like in December or like January like hey, you know that console that where we've been talking about Well, here it is. Here's here's the annex you can go by in three months and The reason why that works for fallout 4 is because we had no idea that was coming plus it's a game Yeah, it's a bit of a game announcement a few months before release then a platform that costs hundreds of dollars No, I know and that's it. That's the thing is I don't think I think they're like Oh, we're just gonna surprise everyone with this because they're never gonna see it coming It's like well, that's we don't want to be surprised with it with a game console announcement Especially the thing is about for two years. Yeah, the difference is like yeah fallout 4 There was a lot of suspicion that it was being made But there was nothing from the company that indicated Necessarily that they were nested that they were good to be released to fall out for now Annex is different they gave us a release like month Before they even announced what the dang thing is like when does that happen? Why why do we know when this console is coming out before we even know what the thing is because Nintendo? I know that's what I'm saying like well I don't I guess I have a hard time believing that they're gonna somehow be able to blow everyone's minds when they still seem a little bit out Of touch by even telling people when this thing is coming before they even tell anyone what it is And I think you hit the nail on the head too when you talked about you know the PlayStation pro is coming out and then sometime or like q1 2017 you got the Xbox Scorpio whatever that is it might end up getting pushed back to holiday that that's true either way either way We're coming out next year. We're hearing like it's gonna be sandwiched in between these two super powerful consoles and You know, I'm I'm not Leaning towards buying either of them, but I know that there are people that are and there are people that are looking at these things They're like, oh man that the ps4 pro looks greater I can't wait to see what Xbox is doing and they already have a kind of a Idea an idea. Yeah Announcements. Yeah, they've had announcements for it. It wasn't just it exists. It's called its codename nx We don't know why it's codename. I'm next because the guy who named it that is dead. Thank you It'll be releasing next year. Well Okay What what kind of marketing is that like they repeat it even like the 3ds directly recently did which happened to have we you knew We you news in it. So like Anyways, they could have just might as well just been a regular direct But like they have to mention we will not talk about nx in this thing I'm like, why did why even say the words nx like just pretend it doesn't exist until you want to announce it Conspiracy theory keep bringing it up to like remind people that it exists essentially But then to remind them also that you're not really gonna tell them anything about well You know what that reminds me of and I might be the only one and I'm you know, there might get some comments about this I don't know if you care but back when I was like a kid in church and you were having prayer requests There was one kid that was like, but I have this unspoken one You're not supposed to know don't tell anyone like I have something that you can't know about but I need you to like I need you to be praying for don't don't ask because I can't tell you and I feel like that's what Nintendo's doing Like don't ask about this because we can't tell you right now, but it's gonna be good But just yeah, don't worry. I wonder the only thing I could think of is Because Nintendo has openly talked in the past especially mr. The late Satoru Iwata Taught a lot about how much they like the way the Apple approaches their ecosystem and all it yada yada The only thing I could think of is them trying to pull an apple Well, they announced it like two weeks before no headphone jack Oh geez Okay, my conspiracy theory is that He had all the NX plans and he took them to the grave with them and they have to make a new console Well, yeah, I see we also know that that's not I mean I want to believe that that's what happened and that's why we're getting all these weird delays with it But now I'm just I'm just BS Yeah, but like we do know like he taught till like apparently he had a lot of detailed plans for how to proceed with the NX and with everything else the company, so like That's what feels weird about this because if Iwata was still around this thing would have been unveiled at E3 Yep, because that's just that's just what he does. We've been through a lot of console cycles He would have announced that E3 he probably would have said it's coming out in 2016 And it probably would have released in 2016 with no games Yeah, it would it might have had breath of the wild if they could have got it done in time And then it would have had nothing for until summer and I think that might like show us what the difficulty is here Because if it was up to Kimishima, they probably wouldn't have announced it so early Yeah, and that's true and I understood why the announcement with me, but it was such a weird It was even weird then like yeah, we're going to the mobile games. By the way, we're still gonna be making home console It's like oh You could just let people be afraid and then announce it at home console when you're ready like That's how you instill confidence that you're not gonna know the home console game like keep making games And then announce the home console when it's ready to be announced or portable or whatever this thing ends up being And what I find really weird about all this is that they're supporting the 3ds for like another couple years Yet they're releasing a handheld Well, we think that's what we think that's what we think well No, we don't for sure it's being supported through 2017 No, no, no, we think that the console is going to be a handle Yeah, that's what that's what we think now There's there was a very old rumor that there's multiple skews that there's a handheld and there's actually a separate home console And it could be that the handheld like releases earlier next year than the home console releases in the holiday Yeah And that could still be a thing and that would definitely be surprising compared to the report on the hybrid Like yeah, it could just be you can play that on there and they will share libraries But there actually will be a separate home console system That you know again, that's I maybe that's getting to the realm of what I want more and so know what's reality is gonna end up being But again, Nintendo won't tell us anything and this is my whole frustration with it It's not just that we don't know anything. It's we know enough from either Either people who have dev units or have SDKs or Assuming that they have like the real deal and these are legit sources, which it seems we have enough like pretty reputable reporters out there now to kind of say some of this stuff has to be real and then We also know from Nintendo when the dang thing's releasing So why can't we know when you plan to like like Take like I used the example before that You know, maybe they're trying to pull an apple and they announce it two weeks before it comes out But we know when Apple's going to announce it. Yeah Like they let you know months in advance like hey look our we're having a press conference here So and so we're gonna talk about our next generation iPhone or next generation this you know Yeah, yeah, like we know what's coming and we know when they're gonna do it a long time ahead of time at this point Yeah, it's around the same time that your iPhone starts working at this site The last thing we heard about an exit. They said at E3 that they will announce it and release more information on it this year Well, we have three months to go It's about time. We know when you're gonna announce it Sorry to know is to give like a few points on the NX I believe how the the name NX came apart is that it was called a Nintendo cross or at least we translate as Nintendo cross here in the States then somebody called it NX and it went back to Japan and then it was like oh NX even Kimishima was kind of confused about the name NX Yeah, he said he said that he does not know what it stands for Yeah, like that's one thing that's one thing that like a lot. I never told them like what does it stand for? Because apparently Supposedly the way that he framed it is it doesn't seem relevant necessarily to what the system is. It's just random. Yeah I wanted another note. I'm actually gonna have to leave right now. Actually, yeah, that's okay. Cool. No, that's fine Actually, we're gonna wrap things up. I know like I knew this topic was gonna go way over because I'm very passionate about my distaste For what Nintendo is doing with the NX so far. I'm hoping that whenever they show it. It's worth it better be worth it Nintendo Please be worth it. I really want it to be good like I want to want your system Man, I don't want to have to re-buy a Wii U to play Breath of the Wild because I don't want an NX All right, well, that's gonna do it for this week's podcast Obviously my first week back I had a feeling it was gonna go over because I wanted to talk about this topic last week But I wasn't here Then I want to thank McIntyre for sticking it out a little longer than planned I think Daniel for for popping in kind of in the last hour or so when I was gathering some people to do this Thanks, obviously want to thank Alfred for running things last week and shuffling the schedule around to make our brand new recording time For those who don't know what we don't want to record on Tuesdays So like if there's a bunch of NX news that hits like on Tuesday or whatever and we're talking about the stuff after the fact Well, sorry we record on Mondays now. We release on Wednesdays There's a potential of some like patreon support in the future that might get you the podcast on Tuesday So then it doesn't sound so far behind but like an audio version of it But that's a discussion for another time. Thanks for joining the Zelenformer podcast everyone Stay stay awesome. Stay frosty. See you guys