 I'm welcoming everybody to our first grazing cover crops webinar out of our five part series here and just thank you for joining us. Thank you especially to our presenters for their flexibility to adjust their materials to an online format so that we were able to get this out there to people yet and also we want to thank the North Central Regents there for sponsoring this webinar series. All of our webinars are going to be recorded and will be posted on the NDSU extension live stock page under the grazing management topic area and we'll post that link in the chat box for you as well. With that I'm going to introduce our first speaker today which is Marisol Birdie and she's going to be talking about cover crop seed rake populations and Marisol is our forage research specialist on campus is very active in our extension. Thankful for us because we don't have a forage extension specialist. All right. Thank you. Thanks everyone for joining us and I want to mention that this project what we were supposed to do is workshop in Dickinson a couple weeks ago but we couldn't do it. This project has been funded by North Central Stair they're providing the funding for doing these workshops and meetings so we can provide information and also some of the information shown in the slides also is research that has been done by the funding of the USDA in ECA so I want to make sure you know that. So I you know it's really nice to see so many people join these and I haven't had a webinar before so I don't know how it's going to go but Mary and Miranda are going to keep me on track. Okay. So I'll talk for 20 minutes. We have the questions to the text box and somebody can read it read them to me later so we don't interrupt the crop but you can start writing your questions right away and they'll help me with that. Okay. So the first topic about cover crops and regulations and crop variety is very important because in the last two years these cover crops boomed up and a lot of people are using it. There's been a little confusion of what we know about seeds and how it makes sure that we're following all the regulations that last regard we call crop seed which are following exactly the same ones as other crops. Okay. So and this is the first important point is that crops seed follow same seed regulations as any other crops seed. Okay. And there's some differences that it's good to know about these North Dakota, but each one of you of different states you'll have some seed loss in the states. So North Dakota seed lot of crops are already caught your seed up for sale or so for plenty purposes must be labeled. Okay. When I quote things directly from the legislator I don't want to change the words because that's exactly how they are. Okay. And I'm sure you'll say you have several similar things. So the important thing is seed by definition is something that is going to be planted. Okay. So you buy corn to feed the animals that's not seed, but if he says to plant this, okay. And any seed that is going to be used for planted must be labeled. This is very important the label of seeds that is going to be planted, proper labeling requires seed testing. Okay. And without proof of testing the potential for planting seed potential for seed might not germinate or one of the things is very serious and it might be contaminated with wheat seeds. So buying seed is not labeled by the North Dakota State Seed Department or whatever you are in your state is not a legal sale. Okay. So that's very important to know. For certification certification is a process to maintain and make available to the public high quality seed of cultivars produces and distributed to ensure proper identity and genetic purity. Okay. That's that's where the certification definition is and the cultivar or variety is a product of a breeding program that has protection by the USP protection and you can find it in the USARS website or ARS clean golf. If it's not on the lease of a variety is protected, then it's not a variety. Okay. And in cultivars we have many seed that is sold and has germination has been sold a seed, but it's not a variety. Okay. So we have a plan variety protection act or PVP of 1994 and this is what is a federal protection for any intellectual property of seed and it's a 20 year protection, but this PVP has a farmer state seed clause. Okay. Seed acquired legally. That means with the label and with the seed because it's a PVP variety. And it may be saved by the farmers for their own use and indefinitely. That means if you buy it once legally, whatever you have left over, so you can use it again. Okay. This is for seeds and not hybrids, of course, the hybrids, it won't work the second time because it will, it will, you know, it will, it won't be the same crop. It will be all different plants, it will segregate, but for all other crops, including color crops, you can use the seed if you bought it legally. Okay. Just for your use, you cannot give it to your neighbors. All seeds are protected by a PVP, must be sold by variety name. That means you cannot say a protected PVP and sell it as variety, not seed or VNF. Okay. Also, you cannot, a buyer cannot divert to plant in purposes grain of a protected variety, which was purchased for a different use like food, seeds, or commercial grain. So if you bought seeds of a crop to feed cattle, you cannot plant it because that wasn't the purpose. So the PVP only affects seeds that is intended for reproductive purposes. That means you are planting it to produce seeds. Okay. Somebody asked me before when I did this talk, that's a discount for, for, let's say, if I plant a seed that I have and I use it for silage, when you use it for silage, then you won't produce seeds. Okay. So you'll be able to use it once. So the different classes of certified seeds, we have breeder seeds, which is controlled by the breeder and whoever created that variety. Then it's foundation seed, which is the highest genetic purity from breeder or seedlock previously certified as foundation seeds, controlled by the owner or licensee, register seed, which is produced from the foundation seed and the quality suitable for production of certified seeds. And finally, the certified seed, which is produced from foundation, register or certified seed and two generations from foundation seed. And once these certified seeds produce, cannot be re-certified. So seeds without a PVP can be sold as variety, not stated, VNS, okay, but the sale is only legally received, has been properly tested in these caves by the North Dakota State Seed Department, okay, or any State Seed Department, and it has a label indicating the generation and purity. Any seed with PVP, even if it's expired, I mean, after the 10 years, has to be sold by the variety name, okay. Now there's something we'll call tree marks or brand names. A person can register a name of a seed, if he doesn't have a PVP, and sell it by that brand name, and that brand name can be on the marketing products of the company, but it cannot be on the label. The label is only for varieties they have PVP. So tree marks or brand names, they were used in many cover crops. A lot of cover crops are tree marks or brand names. These are not varieties, okay, and so they cannot be labeled as such. So, and there is a clause on the legislation about seeds to set seeds which are not the label advertised under a tree mark or brand name in a manner that might create the impression that a tree mark or brand name is the variety name. That's why it cannot be on the label, but it can be on the marketing. A tree mark or brand name, it's just a selection. Somebody has to seed and clean it up and multiply it, but it's not a product of a breeding program. For example, in these some cover crops, for example, I'm going to put radish as one of the examples, there's two registered varieties of radish, daikon radish type, which are, they have PVP, which are grass and tillage radish, and some varieties can have both, a tree mark and a PVP, okay, so these ones have both. They have a tree mark, the name, the tree mark is the name of the variety. That means if you get a tree mark of a variety or, you know, a tree mark or a brand name, what you're getting is that nobody else can use that name. Okay, it's a commercial, it's for marketing. So, you have a tree name on the tillage radish variety. No one else can sell radish called tillage radish. So, when you do a trademarking, you're buying the name, but that doesn't mean it's a protected variety, okay? So, grass and tillage radish, they have both. They are a PVP, they have a PVP and they have a trademark. Now, there's some varieties of radish that you see in the box below that they don't have, they're not, they don't have a PVP. So, these are trade names, so trademarks or brand names, okay? And so, if they have a TM, that means a trademark, and it means no one else can use, okay? I might be missing some of this TM. I'm just putting this as an example. And this is very common in cover crops. In cover crops, there's a lot of the seeds that are sold, they are trade marks, not right. Now, so these ones are what we call a large-rooted selection of dicom type or seed or forest radish, but they're not the product of the formal breeding program. That's a difference, okay? And rye, cereal rye, which is used a lot in cover crops, there are five varieties registered with PVP, including the North Dakota Villain variety, and I think there's the new one now coming out, which will have PVP, too. And the share registers for varieties are registered. You can look for those varieties. So, what's the risk of planting trademarks? Right? If we wouldn't plant trademarks of VNL varieties, a lot of cover crops would not plant, okay? We use them. Being a trademark of brand doesn't mean you cannot use it, okay? You still can buy that if it has the proper label from the State State Department. What are the risks of planting trademarks of vans? They can have high level of variability, okay? Well, you don't know. Some can go to seed very quickly. Some radishes can have an early bolting. They can have low seedling vigor, limited winter hardiness. For example, you buy a VNL variety from the south of winter rye. It might not survive the winter shift, okay? The same with winter peas. Also, some of the seedless trademarks can have hard seeds, and noxious wheat seeds. Even if it's labeled, sometimes some seeds will be in there because they might have not detected some of those noxious wheat. The last one is one of the really important things, and we've had a lot of problems last year in North Dakota with this, okay? And I'll show you some ads from newspapers. What was the problem? So, the seed label must. This is where the seed label has to have. Name of crop of the variety, if it is the right one. Not trained arms of grants are allowed in the label, okay? This is label, not what you have on the bag, like a marketing name. Lot number ID, state of origin, percent of weight by all wheat seeds, noxious wheat presence. Each state has different list of noxious wheat. Percent of other crops seed percent of inert matter, percent of germination, date of testing, name and address of who labeled the seed, and seed treatments event. So, the seed bag has to have this label without information. Now, here I want to show what happened with noxious wheat seeds in Dakota Crop Seeds. In 2019, unfortunately, we found Palmer Emma. And if you look at these ads from different newspapers, you can see that Palmer Emma was found in milled fields. CRP, and there's no one case also in Minnesota. We found, they found that. And so, this is what happens when you're selling branded seed or VNS seed, that even if I have had labeled some states Palmer Emma might not be, might not be a noxious wheat. So, with order in online, some people can order some seeds online from a different state, and if Palmer Emma is not noxious wheat there, you could get to our state, and this is what happened. Now, last year, we had a lot of fields with Palmer Emma, and a lot of them were milled. So, they asked me right away, you know, as you see where Dakota Crop Seeds, you see the last two Crop Seeds. So, that's not good for those that we are really interested in that farmers grow cover crops because of all the benefits to soil health. We want to keep these, we want people to do this because of soil health, and the great things that go across to the soil, but we want to make sure we don't do, we're careful because this is a problem. We're bringing in a noxious wheat to a state where we didn't have it. So, also, like I said, in CFP mixes, we have found some noxious wheat in Palmer Emma. This is an example because it's not noxious in some states, so maybe that's how it came. And in South Dakota, it wasn't a noxious wheat, not wheat, wheat until September 2009. Now it's in the list of noxious wheat, too. Seeds are neighboring states. Sometimes farmers could get wheat from some neighbors in South Dakota, and that's the problem we're using. Seeds, they're not regulated. So, regulatory, there's different things, right? The violations, they have fine, okay? And there's two aspects that might be satisfied when the violation occurs. One is the law, and one is the right, the owner's right, okay? All allegations of violations are investigated, violating PDT in North Dakota. The fine is 10,000 per violation, and labeling violations 500 to 1,000. Now, this probably varies between different states. Now, this might not seem that high, but then you have whatever outside of those penalties, you have the right, the owner's right, the owner must recoup the research fees for damages and lost fees. So that can be a lot of money, okay? They can sue you for using a variety that was protected in selling it or planting it without having paid for it. Both the seller or the seed and the conditioner are equally responsible. So, companies they sell seeds, they have to make sure they're selling the PDT variety that includes the value for those, so the fees for those. So prevent, the idea of prevent violation is traditional and efforts like this. So, a lot of people when it comes to these violations, many times it's because they don't know. But like you know, for any law, not knowing that's an issue from having to pay the fees or the fines, okay? So it's very important to know and understand. So this is all I have for today. I know there's going to be a lot of questions, but I think we're going to do the questions at the end once Mike talks too. So thanks so much and thanks for attending. I'm sorry about the troubles, but I knew I was going to be the first one. Something will happen. Okay, thanks so much. Thanks, Mary. Awesome. Thanks, Marisol. So well, Marisol is stopping her screen share here and Mike's getting his slides ready. If you guys do have any questions, I want to put them in the chat pod. You can do that. Otherwise, you can see that Miranda has added, the recording will actually be available and where that'll be. And we'll put that up again at the end. So it looks like Mike's getting fired up here. So Mike is, Mike Osley is one of our research agronomists at the Carrington Research Extension Center. And so Mike is going to go ahead today and talk about herbicide tolerance and cover crops. He's done some research on this and we've done some at the center. And so we thought it'd be good just to have him come in and talk a little bit about just some things to watch out for and think about. So Mike, do you want to take over? I'll make sure I can hear you and then I'll go back on mute. Okay, thanks. I have the right screen up, don't I? You do. Okay, perfect. All right, thank you everybody for listening in today. So I have a few different topics here. I'm going to cover regarding herbicide tolerance and cover crops. Essentially, I have it split out into some slides about wheat, herbicide use, soybean, and then corn to end with as far as different herbicide combinations are going to be used for each of those crops. So I guess especially since the group is from our broader audience than probably originally intended, which is great, it's probably even more important to talk a little bit about some of the factors that are going to influence herbicide breakdown and residual activity. First of all, for those out of states, I have a bunch of page references here to the North Dakota weed control guide. So that's what the abbreviation there is at the top. And so for those that have access to a weed control guide, you can feel free to either follow along a little bit or just reference it at a later date because there's a lot more good information than beyond what we can cover here. So essentially there's a few things to keep in mind. Herbicide residual activity is not something that's easy to predict by any means. A few of the things that are going to influence how an herbicide breaks down are things like sunlight, moisture, microbial activity, or other chemical reactions in the soil. And a lot of the times an herbicide breaks down more with just one of these different components. And so for instance, you talk about the yellow herbicides, your treflan, sonilan, they break down very rapidly in sunlight, but not so much with a lot of the other ways of breakdown. And so keep that in mind that every product you use is probably going to break down a little bit different from the next one. And a few other things, more environmental related, I guess, just rainfall. From year to year, you can have big changes even within a single site in how your herbicides are going to impact cover crops, for instance, or other rotational crops. But I guess the biggest thing is in general, the more moisture you get, the quicker the products are going to break down. Again, this is generalization. And this is certainly somewhat related to soil texture, as well as some of the other things that go along with the soil texture, like differences in pH, organic matter specifically. And again, those change quite a lot within fields. So the information I'm going to get to you, I think, is pretty broad. But just keep in mind that within field, there can be a lot of variability. And so what we're doing is trying to be conservative with our recommendations. So as we go throughout here, I'm going to be referring a lot to risk. Because of the variability between sites and years, we break things into three categories. Your cover crop is either going to be low, medium, or high. Low, medium, or high risk based on the herbicide choice you made. And your risk might change depending on, well, this year maybe we get more rain. So you're maybe going to be more apt to take a risk, or if it's a really dry year, prone to longer residuals. Well, maybe you're going to scale it back and not do something that's a medium or high risk. And so the way we're doing the upcoming charts is that if we test everything in multiple environments, and if we had even one of our environments that flagged an herbicide cover crop combination as high risk, that's what the label is. Even if all other sites, we didn't see any problems. Even if we had a problem in one site, we're going to flag that as a higher risk category. And that is because, again, of the variability we can see in these combinations, we want to make sure people have the safest options available to them. And then with that in mind, with the wheat studies in particular, we had occasions where we didn't see any problems with any of our treatment combinations. So everything was safe, but it varies. And hopefully I can get some better pictures of this photograph in the future, but something to keep in mind too, when we're talking about soil residual activity, it's not always something that shows up right away. And I was just going to point out that the longer the fall is, and we're talking more or less about fall cover crops here, the more likely you are to see injury. And what you see here in this picture are field peas treated with different rates of stinger, essentially. And essentially when all the peas started emerging, everything came up beautifully. But shortly after emergence, the highest rate we used, the peas started shriveling. And then a few days later, the second highest rate, the peas started shriveling. Then a few days after that, the third highest rate caused the peas to shrivel. And by the end of the study, actually, all of the peas were showing a little bit of symptomology of the stinger, even though in this picture, the peas on the right-hand side look pretty healthy yet. So just keep in mind that the bigger your cover crops get, the more likely you are also to see some injury symptoms as you go. Okay, all that background being said, here is the most complete data we have from any of our cover crop herbicide work. So this again is a situation where we're applying the top end use rates for various products to a wheat crop. And then we plan to follow cover crop after harvest and see the impacts of the herbicide on the cover crop. So this is certainly not all-inclusive, nor is it for any of our other crops. We specifically chose products that could potentially have residual activity that we'd be worried about. So you can look through, here, I'm not going to go through every combination, but just note that we have several combinations of a cover crop and an herbicide that we feel really comfortable with. And that's the LR categories, that's low risk, which means we saw less than 20% injury during the fall from using these herbicides. If something was labeled as medium risk, that means we saw injury that could be concerning, we say anywhere from 20% to 50% injury, which is usually stand loss, but there occasionally sometimes was accomplishing also some foliar symptoms as well. And then anything as HR is high risk, which means anything more than 50% injury to our cover crop. And so we have a few examples where we saw some pretty severe injury trying to plant into an area treated by these products. And the strike-throughs on those high risk groups means we saw significant damage more than one time. So for instance, our field P in wide match, one of the five sites we tested, we saw a high-risk response, but our lentils recorded two high-risk responses to the wide match. So essentially, I would just say never do that combination. Whereas if you have something in that medium risk category, again, if you have conditions favorable to herbicide breakdown, and you're not 100% set on growing your cover crop for a high yield, just maybe as part of a mix, I would say it's probably okay to use some of those cover crop mixtures. But again, if you're feeling conservative, I would definitely go with one of the combinations as low risk. Okay. And then for those looking for this information a little more, again, in the North Dakota weed control guide, you'll find this, it's not color, but that same information on page 115. Okay. So moving on to soybeans, this research is actually conducted by Greg Endress here at the Carrington Research Center. This database isn't complete, but I'll go over just a little bit of what he's found so far. And here the idea, again, is that we're going to be planting a fall cover crop following our soybeans. And so we're looking at something that's roughly two to four months after some of these herbicides were applied. So here's some comments that we haven't right now in the weed control guide from some of the preliminary work. You can go ahead and take a look at some of these combinations for use in soybeans. This is pretty vague and was I think is more or less taken from the labels. Some of the, let me see if you put animations in here. But some of the more current data is from 2018 and 2019, which was conducted in both Carrington and Fargo. And focusing on a lot of the pre-emerge products on soybeans, and then a couple of post options. And I know in 2020, we're going to do this one more time with some additional post-emerge products. So we had a pretty good fall, last fall actually, for this study. And the cover crops came up pretty nice. Here's what the data looked like. He's using a similar scale that we did in wheat, where anything less than 20% injury we're saying is okay to use. If we had greater than 20% injury, we're going to flag that and put that into a higher risk category. So in 2019, we saw increased risk from radishes with Spartan, as well as Zidua and Radish, Metrobuzin and Radish, and also Metrobuzin and Turnup. So again, we're seeing some potential issues with Radish and Turnups in both our soybean and wheat programs potentially. So I know Radish is a popular one among a lot of cover crop mixtures, so just something to kind of keep in mind as we're going through. Moving on, a little bit, essentially the same information, but just written out here in a little bit clearer terms. So again, we're going to have in 2020 a completed set of data for our soybeans. And we're going to come up with a similar table that we did with our wheat herbicides. So moving on to corn here quickly. In this case, I think probably the most applicable cover crop use in corn that we'll be focusing on would be the use of cover crops mid-season into corn. So this is a picture of us last year planting our cover crops into our corn in early July. You can see the weeds are pretty well under control when we're planting here. So we have a plan already in place. So we don't have a good set of testing yet to North Dakota to check for herbicide sensitivity. So I'm going to be pulling from a couple other universities. So this first table is from Penn State, and they have a similar breakdown that we're using. Instead of the high, lower, medium risk, they just give the combinations a one, two, or three to indicate risk. So you can find this information out there if you search. I think I have the, in the next slide, have the title. So again, same concept that we're looking at. They're planting their cover crops following these different product applications. And then some of these are flagged as being higher risk than others. They have a pretty limited cover crops set compared to what we might be looking to use, but still a few of the key ones are listed in here. So here's the title you might be looking for if you're going to do a search, improving the success of interceding cover crops in corn. Here's a little bit different table that describes some of the herbicide active ingredients and the products that contain them, as well as what grouping of species might be affected by these different active ingredients. So again, just something you can kind of search through and peruse maybe more on your own time. And then here's another one that's probably even more relevant. So there's a difference here too. What I've been talking about mostly is just whether or not the cover crops are going to grow because of the herbicide residue. But on top of that, you also have to keep in mind if you're grazing, there are also grazing restrictions on a lot of herbicides. Okay. And so here's a publication from from Iowa State called, at the top here, you can see it. It's called herbicide use may restrict grazing options for cover crops. So if you search for that, you'll come up with this publication that lists a number of, again, products. And what the label says is something that would be either safe or not safe for grazing less than four months after application. So herbicide labels are really confusing. And this is just a broad categorization. Some of these might have very short residuals, but everything here is just grouped into anything less than a four month grazing restriction. And whether or not it meets that four month restriction or not. And then in the last chart here I have, here's a list of products and in combinations where the establishments is greater or the grazing restriction is greater than four months after application. So just some things to keep in mind as you're going through and trying to plan your season is you have not only herbicide tolerance problems to consider for growing the cover crop, but if you're grazing it, you also have to pay attention to these grazing restrictions. And then there's a more complete list of this as well. Again, in the North Dakota weed control guide on page 125. So it's a lot to keep track of when you're trying to incorporate these systems together. But it is definitely doable. And we're trying to keep filling in some of these knowledge gaps as we go, but acknowledging that there are still knowledge gaps for some of these products. So with that, that's what I have to share. Thank you, Mike. So before we move into questions, we have a few questions for you. Just to get a little bit of feedback on how you guys thought this webinar went. And if there's anything that we didn't capture or don't didn't capture in our questions, feel free to put it in the chat box or email those comments to either Mary or I. So here is our first question set of questions for you. And in the meantime, as you are filling those questions out, we will, like I said, I'll be watching the chat pod. If you guys have any questions, we just appreciate if you type them in there. Otherwise, you can shoot me or Miranda and email. That way, if a lot of you have the same questions, we can just ask Mike and Marisol once to save time for them. And you guys answering these questions really help us to know whether or not this is effective. If this is a good use of our time and a good way for you to spend your time. So we really appreciate you answering these questions. If it's not, then we're going to have to change the format or find something new. So you answering really helps us out. And it helps us plan for future programming as well. We'll give you a few more seconds and then I will close this poll and start the next question, two questions for you. And just so folks know, these questions are anonymous. So don't feel like we're going to look at your answers on the back end. If you're like, Oh, I don't want Mike to know I didn't learn a stinking thing from him. I can pick on Mike. So don't feel like we're going to go look at that. We can't. It actually just shows us anonymous and then an answer. So we have no clue how things were answered. All right, I'm going to end this one. And we will start our next one. This looking like this is on Mike's presentation to see what you guys learned from his talk. Looking like we have a question or two from Mike here coming in. So don't go anywhere. Do you want me to answer now or? So you can start thinking about it. So it's Marisol said she has a question for you. What about forage mixes and herbicides? So that's going to be something forage mix for grazing. How do I determine the restrictions on that? Okay. And I'm going to give you a couple more seconds and I will close this poll. And then we'll maybe take a couple of questions and do our last last couple of polls here. Okay. Yeah. We'll open up for a couple of questions before we do our last two polls for you. So Mike, any thoughts on forage mix grazing? How to determine those restrictions? Yeah. So I mean, the tables are essentially designed best to use with a single crop setting. But yeah, of course, most people are going to want to use a cover crop mixture, especially in a grazing scenario. So naturally, the answer is that it's a lot more complicated. Just like trying to calculate seeding rates with these mixes. But I know the Penn State article had some guidance in it about some of the mix forage mixtures and how the herbicide residuals might be impacting those mixtures. Again, they're a little more generic, just kind of grasses with brassicas, for instance. But essentially, I would just say you kind of pick your mixtures based on your program or vice versa, for that matter. For in most cases, you're going to be able to find multiple cover crops that are going to be safe for some of the different herbicide programs that are out there. So depending on how much of a percentage you have of your mixture, it may depend on some of the risk levels. You're not going to put or at least I wouldn't put a lot of something that's a medium risk category in your cover crop mix, but you might include it as a smaller component in there if you would like to have that in there. But it's not essential to have it, for instance. So I guess you just have to kind of use your best judgment and in common sense when trying to put together your whole systems approach in this case. Okay. Marisol did that answer your question. She said thank you. Okay, perfect. Does anybody else have questions? Are there other questions either from Marisol or Mike's discussions that you would like to ask? Also note that if you're feeling shy and don't want to ask on here if you think of something later, you can always let us know. You can always email Miranda or I later or message us on our livestock extension Facebook page and we'll be happy to pass those along to either Marisol or Mike and get those answered for you. So if you do think of something later today, you can certainly let us know. I do have a slide up just saying if you had any technical difficulties today getting on, I know I just got a phone call here from a person who's been trying to phone in and they weren't sure how to do it correctly and so they're going to hop on the Thursday one and I'm going to send them the recording of today's but if you guys had any technical difficulties getting on, if you want to go ahead and put that in the chat pod for us, that'll help us know what we can share with you next time. Miranda's going to put up another poll here. These are super simple questions again just to check the usefulness of this. So we know if this is useful or not and do I need to stop sharing for you to do that, Miranda? No, no, but there's another question for Mike. Okay. Hey Mike, I want to try 60 inch corn. Do I plan my herbicide for my wheat population and tailor to my cover crop mix to fit herbicides used or other way around? Well that's a good question. I mean I guess you know depending on what your strategy is and when you want to plant your cover crop might change things a lot. Again here when we're trying the wide-inch corn we're looking at kind of a mid-summer planting and so for me I really want to make sure I get the weeds under control before I go in there with my cover crop. There are a number of corn residual products that lend themselves to certain cover crop mixtures so me personally again I would focus on the best weed management program for especially the wide-row corn because if you fail to control those weeds you have all that extra space there between your corn rows you could potentially be dealing with a lot of seed production and me coming from a weed science background maybe I'm biased like that but then I would try to build the cover crop mixture around what what I can use to control those weeds but especially with corn there are an awful lot of options out there and so you know maybe the program you've been using is more restrictive than something you can use that would be also very effective at controlling some of those weeds so I mean I'd say it's a little bit of both anyway whether or not you plant your herbicide or your cover crop plant first but corn is probably more flexible than most of the other crops we have okay and Chris if you have any more of a follow-up or further on that question you can again go ahead and type it in here or you can always get you in contact with Mike as well I'm gonna launch our next poll and well you all think of some more questions so this poll again just talks about the usefulness was this useful or not and don't feel afraid of hurting our feelings again it's anonymous I'm not going to know that Joe was the one that said it wasn't that way we we know how to keep going with our online format and we just appreciate all of you first those of you that asked us even to move it online that was awesome and then sticking with us through this process so we appreciate that yeah we didn't know how this way go this is definitely trial and error and learning for us especially with the hands-on components we had planned so there's another question for Mike while folks are finishing up this poll question is what are the most common cover crops are relative rank of the top cover crops mentioned and in what cropping systems rotation I guess both Mike or Marisol would be yeah I guess it really depends on where you're going I think certainly yeah it's a really difficult question to answer because I know a lot of people are doing a lot of different things out there which is great you know and a lot of it comes down to what's available in your area you know a lot of people might use oats or barley because that's something that you can get for pretty inexpensively and a lot of people least in our area might have some seed available you know but certainly I'd say one of the more commonly commercialized ones is certainly the the turnips and radishes where you're probably going to be going more to a traditional or if you will cover crop or seed dealer for those types of species they're probably going to command a little bit more of a premium too but again the preference there is just because they they have very specific uses in what they're designed to do right it's a it's kind of a difficult question to answer I guess but yeah I would like to ask can you hear me I would like to add that Mary and I will have another of this webinar where we'll show the different crops and then talk about the importance usually when we talk about most common cover crops we really want the farmers to choose the cover crops according to the objectives that they have you know everyone has different things whether you want it for grazing or you want it for just soil health different you know in different crop rotations whether you're planting them after wheat or you will incertain them and to a corn soybean rotation so crops are going to vary a lot according to your objectives and your crop insistence or rotations and so I think I think when he says Mary is the 15th April 16th the other webinar yes that we will do and so I invite you to join that one too we'll talk a little more about the cover crop species and which you know what are the functions and how you can select them according to that if hopefully this help there's another question in the chat box is there a concerned planting sorghum sedangrass on ground that had a cover crop with fall rye Mike I guess there's some I I've seen sorghum sedangrass depending the conditions can can have problems at establishment following rye okay but just like in corn it depends it depends a little bit it depends on how close to planting the sorghum sedangrass did you terminate the rye okay the closer you get to the planting date of a sorghum sedang the more chances you're going to have problems they're both grasses and just like from rye to corn you can have some problems and cause some yellowing or the corn following in this case the sedangrass there are different reasons for that it can be it can be nitrogen immobilization it can be some allelopathic toxins so in some some years I've seen some some sedangrass really really yellow and damaged after rye but that doesn't happen every year because it depends on the conditions on the rain on the moisture on nitrogen and many things so that's a very good question and I would have some caution of planting sorghum sedang right after fall rye although the sedangrass is a forage in upper rain you will recover after two three weeks that danger is going to delay probably the production of forage for the summer and if that's what you want okay so we have a question from alex um he's planning on using an air cedar to plant soybeans on 15 inch centers in between those rows we'll be planting oats at 25 pounds per acre and rye at eight pounds per acre are there any concerns with the with that idea or is there anyone that has any experience with that and while this question's being answered i'm going to launch our last poll too um yeah we've tried that a few times out here at least with rye we didn't really ever look at oats exactly um two years anyway we've planted rye and soybeans at the same time i don't know if you're talking about what kind of planting that you're talking about with your cereals but we planted them at the same time in the spring and it's only we've only had kind of mild success with that it didn't i don't think i saw anything with that system that was in my opinion that was making it worth the extra effort to do that but those are some really dry years in our part now if you're talking about going in late season and planting those um you know there's probably more merit to that i i think especially with the rye in particular but i don't know if Marisol has some feedback yeah um we said we were done with cover crops we've done it like after our fourth stage i don't know what you mean uh plant uh you mean planting the soybean outstanding rye i'm sorry i don't quite understand this is if you're good planting on rye coming from the fall or you're planting all these together to try to have a crop after serving or are you are you using this serving for grazing so sorry i'm not quite understand what we've done with interceding and serving we usually plant late in the season because serving for grain produces too much shade but if you're doing this mix all together we think are you trying to graze these or or it's a preventive planting uh these are all planted at the same time yeah but that that wouldn't be for grain right if you're planting those rates those three crops rye oats and serving at the same time that serving is not for grain is it because if you do that you will have a lot of competition that's why i'm not sure that it's a mix that you're gonna graze or if you're planting servings for grain you will have a lot of competition so it says um i see yeah uh they would all be planted in the spring just so i mean when we take it for grain the oats and rye would be terminated mid to late June okay i understand yeah that's yeah yeah in that in that case i'm not sure if the rye would be adding much um to that mix um you know maybe just uh an oat straight oat might be a little bit simpler in that case um but i mean diversity is not the worst thing either there either but um i understand now so it will work yeah i agree with you the rye wouldn't work because it's a winter crop so you plant it in the spring it will just stay shallow so it won't make any sense but the oats you can you just have to make sure that you don't leave it long enough to produce competition because um since oats is going to be a you know it's going to go fast so it's not something we've tried i don't think we've tried that i don't know abby uh uh you have a comment on that maybe you can put your mic up abby yeah you know i'm just sorry i was just going to mention one thing quick too the i think part of the reason i would say just oats is i don't think the rye would get big enough to prevent a lot of the weed suppression um you know rye works pretty good doing that but um the more biomass it has the better the weed control is and so seedling rye you know for instance isn't going to do much for you you know and that those oats might do a little bit better job with the weed suppression go ahead abby uh um so i think i think a lot of this sounds like franzin's work for the iron deficiency chlorosis that he was doing where they're planting oats along with soybean to help manage some of the moisture and the nitrogen and and some of the um indirectly the salts in those situations and and so i think there's you could probably find it on dav franzin's web page as far as the yield responses and what it meant for those idc reasons um on dav franzin's web page and he's with ndsu but i that's that's where i've seen that mostly and then i made a comment in the chat box about um where i saw some farmers where they had fertilized a pp field uh for corn and they didn't weren't able to get corn in there because the timing so they ended up putting in um they seeded soybean but they also put wheat in between the rows because they were they want to make sure that they captured whatever nitrogen is there for the future not planning out of being released the next year or the following year but just to hold on to it for a little bit and it it looked really nice we never got yields off of it because of the tight harvest but um well challenging harvest i guess it wasn't tight it lasted forever um but i i think it looked nice and i think it's something that they may try again on small acreage but i think any of these things if you're trying it the first time doing it on small acreage is a really good idea to get your an understanding of it um but but that's just that's my opinion okay unless there's any additional questions i think we're going to wrap up for today i want to remind everyone that our next webinar is thursday at 11 and kevin sedovic the the rangeland extension specialist and the interim director at the the streeter research extension center our central grasslands research extension center will be joining us as well as erin govler who is the research technician at the central grasslands research extension center and they're going to be talking about some of the grazing cover crop research that's been done in the state and some of the implications of that research mary is there any other reminders that you have no i think just if you guys do have any follow-up questions this week uh you can either bring them on thursday and put them in the chat pod for us then and let us know and we'll get them to either mike or marisol or you can always send either of us an email and i'll just put that in here one more time just so that we all have that otherwise i think we're good to go