 Then so welcome everyone to advocacy and outreach the recording has started So I like do you want to take us through the agenda? You want me to drive that? I Summarize the agenda, but yeah full disclaimer. I may drop at any moment. All right, so Maybe you wanted to follow up on the recent event. We submit up removal so there is a threat in the developer amenities which summarizes the sequence of events and the next steps So I just wanted to follow up on that and another Related threat is about our current all channels We used for Janky's area meetups and for events and replacing them by advocacy and our 3c so to optimize the effort He spent on that and then a lot of other topics like FOSDOM status community reach updates mostly for funding And the Janky's expositioning is just a sporadic threat we had in Github before the meeting So I put it to the list so that we can discuss it Okay, so that's it Great All right, so Alyssa you want to give us an overview on the meetup removal retrospective and what we've learned to date Yeah, so At the governance meeting Yesterday, we did get approval to use this SIG the outreach the advocacy and outreach SIG to as a as a support system for new jams and I've updated that on my My pull request on That I've been updating for CICC ICD meetups and jam So that should reflect on that page And then what else I mean we still keep the The organizations the The logistics That still needs to go through CDF, but we just open it up to that You know that this this SIG is Is a place where people can come and get advice and help if needed What was the other item that was in there yesterday Oleg I forgot so Basically, we approved shutting down of inactive meetups in principle Oh, yes, so yeah, I just summarized the Discussion we had last week About the meetups the proposal is to basically immediately step down From meetups which have never happened So the meetups get recovered and then they basically can immediately step down so that the meetup.com adoption process starts and for the Meetups where we had an event at least once we have a grace Period where we try to recover the meetups in the community. So this is what we approved yesterday It's a agreement in principle. So the decision the final decision and the final process Definition is delegated to event officer. So basically it's you Alisa Yeah, yeah, and I'll I'll work closely with Jackie on where we are with regards to the deleted meetups Night and I have an update for that. Oh, cool. Yeah, so I I sent so I added both Oleg and you and you Alisa to the communication about the next steps and then I also just shared with you guys the Excel sheet and So I was I have an email in my draft Oleg to the message that you sent this morning. So Meetup restored all of them However, some of them they ran into issues and data was lost They can work on Recovering that data But what I wanted to do was make sure that we prioritize all of the meetups that do want to Be part of that grace period first So that's why I wanted to send out that communication so that we can so like for example, you just said hey, can you please? Work on getting all this Scandinavian Meetups up those should be up and if they're not up, let me know And it sounds like they're not so I'll send meetup another no and let them Ask them to prioritize those groups first so that they can recover them because everything should have been recovered and restored as of last week on the 7th But it seems like it's It's not so So I'll send them a reminder no and Yeah, so any meetups that want to be restored and their data was lost. We're happy to prioritize them and recover it We just need to know which ones they are Yeah, so Currently we have 59 meetups So it means that approximately 40 meetups haven't been restored yet Yeah, and so that's I that's what I'll send her and be like hey What happened to these other 40 meetups because you guys said that Everything that we went we've asked them to shut down should have been restored by now Yeah, it's definitely not Thanks for the status update Are there any specific inputs about priorities from others on the call? No, I think I think you had the right description of the priorities, right? It is Priorities should be those groups that are our most that were active therefore Had Scandinavia the Russian the meetup that are you Yes, so Yeah So, I mean Happened at least once right and it would be also nice to restore a bay area jam Because for me, it's just no no brainer that we can Have cicd meetup in the bay area. Yeah, and right now we know we don't so For me, it would be just a good Experiment in terms of renaming to see ICD meetups and the facilitating the community around it Yeah, we got a meetup Yeah, I also communicated it to the team, but we don't no longer need to restore here as level John Okay, any other comments about priorities and things to be restored? Nothing from me Okay, so I'll set up a meeting with meetup For tomorrow and just let them know. Hey like what happened with those other 40 ones because they're not popping up On our page and then please restore these and work on the data for you for them Yeah, I also noticed that even in restored meetups not all Member numbers were restored. So, for example in Moscow jam. We lost approximately three hundred participants Can you also highlight that in the notes? So then I can yeah highlight all of the ones that you lost data on That you want me to recover and then they'll work on those Yeah, I Unfortunately, I don't have approximate exact numbers. I Don't need exact numbers. I just need the name of the groups and I will let her know that these groups were Affected and data was lost and that they need to go work on a on recovery Yeah, and you Yeah, in Moscow, yeah, so anyway It is probably less a priority because if you have the meetup page. Well, eventually this members will come back not so It's unfortunate, but it's not something We can't leave you out, but you're just restoring the meetups a bit crucial. Okay. Yep I'll get on her again to see what happened Jacqueline can I ask your question? Sure. I know there were a lot of emails going back and forth regarding this but do Can you just like give me a TLDR of how this happened? Yeah, so we did a scrub of all of the meetups that Currently are under the pro network account and we identified over 60 Groups within the meetup pro account that in the year 2009 Did not host any events so To us that was an indication that there was no active organizer and that there was just no No one was really moving the group forward so After doing the math that was about $7,000 that we paid for Q1 for groups that In 2009 never hosted an event and then when we looked at more data, it was the since they joined the pro account Some groups had just never even hosted one event Yeah, 27 meetups. Yeah, and so And then the other ones just never hosted an event in 2019 and the last time that they had hosted an event were like between the years of 2015 and 2018 and so that was we took that as an indication that these groups were no longer active What we didn't realize was that Meetup is being used In another way and I think it's what we gathered was that it's being used more as a way to communicate to some of these Jams members, but it's also just not the right way to be using this platform But we're happy to like that's why we're working on restoring all of these because we want to be accommodating to the community and And we just didn't realize that this is how they were being used Okay, thank you one final question When the determination was made that these were not being used after the scrub was any communication sent out prior to removing these to maybe Alyssa or Oleg or anybody in the in the community No, we did not that's that was where our mistake was Will there be a bit? because Actually, there was communication sent But the communication was sent only to meet up organizers as a part of incoming transition to CDF and on So there was an email to meet up orks and that meetups will be transition to CDF and Then there will be review of inactive meetups and that you will get some communications about meetups which Considered as an active so there was warnings for the warning for meetup organizers that Review of inactive meetups is going to happen But it was the only communication which was sent Yeah, so I think that go ahead Alyssa. Yeah, so so Markey. I mean There were some things that fell through the cracks when we between Between The time that we as in max and myself from cloud bees where we sent out that initial message and then the Transition took place and then Jackie took over so between the that time You know, we didn't follow up with an additional Communication and so that's when things just when we exchange hands things just fell through the cracks in some ways Is there a way that and this is more kind of where I was going with my line of questioning Is there a way that a we're doing some type of? Like business disruption or we're basically learning from what we did so we don't repeat it either in this fashion Or somewhere else when we transfer something I I just want to make sure that we're capturing what was missed and that we're We're proactively finding a way so it doesn't happen again and mainly I Want that for the community because I think it would be good to be transparent about hey This is where we messed up and this is how we're correcting it It just gives people that warm and fuzzy that well, you know, everybody's human and yeah, and and that and that's what that Email communication that I added Alyssa and Oleg to I have a document where I go through all of that where it was Just like hey, we did a scrub this is where we made our mistake Which was not to be more proactive in our communication and then these are like the as a result of us trying to remove these Pro excuse me these groups from the pro network account When this was done. This is what happened and So it's there. It's documented already. I just wanted Alyssa and Oleg's feedback first before I send it out Awesome. Thank you that answers my my questions and I thank you very much Yeah, no problem. I mean, yeah, like this was I to be quite honest I just wanted them removed from the network so that they weren't being charged to our account What wasn't explained to me in the process what that that they were gonna be completely deleted. So But yeah, we I've documented the next steps. So And then also just identified all of the all of the groups that we initially targeted so You know working working on that On that fix Okay, thank you very much. Yeah, of course And so all of us have to learn The idea of removing connective meetups is important Because yeah, because 7k usd per quarter is quite high and definitely there could be much better use of this money than sponsoring connective meetups Yeah, and we're happy, you know, we're happy. I also want to just make sure that This doesn't get lost as we're happy to continue sponsoring meetups It was just when we looked at that data. It just looked like there was no one was using them So I just didn't realize that people were just using them more as an email platform than really as a place to Promote events And that's how that data is being interpreted is every every time you post an event That's that's being measured as activity on that for that group And yeah That's right. So another step on us would be to proceed with the meetup shutdown process as we discussed and I guess at least an hour work closely with CDF to implement this process and there is Decision from the Jenkins community, which basically approves whatever the process we discussed Yes, I will do that Yeah, so one thing is still it would be great to do a best offer to recover meetups. Yeah Republished because yeah, these meetups could be used as a foundation for CICD meetups Yeah, you see in Bay Area, we had Several southern people. I'm not sure how many But if you just rename it to CICD meetups, it's a good user base for promoting whatever events Yeah, and hopefully also just getting somebody to also be more of an Organizer as well. I think that's also important for us to focus on next Okay, so are we are we settled then with the jam retrospective and follow-up so we still have I think Jackie and I still have a lot to do with regards to You know where we are in plans for communication going forward mark, so there's still Things for us to do still Yeah, also, there are some action items right on the Jenkins community because we have to upgrade our meetup program pages So there is kind of request from Alisa which does that Yeah, I just lost Yeah The job program So I think I'm Pretty much updated my part Oleg, but you can let me know what else I'm missing. Yeah, I did request changes, but they're quite minor I believe we can quickly learn that So Yeah, hopefully it will be landed some Okay, so we still promote the Jenkins area meetups for meetups We should decided not to rename to see ICD meetups But in 80s the most of the operations go to contains the liver foundation So the amount of responsibilities on the Jenkins site gets reduced And we wrote everything to advocacy and outreach special interest group so that we have less entities to maintain on our side and Yeah, one thing to it Is we may need to reconsider the scope of responsibilities of the event officer because we are right now a lot of Responsibilities actually go to meetup operations and now it's on CDF Well, we still want to help use meetups But you won't be able to fully deliver of responsibilities as documented Right. Yes. So there Jackie the the story is that the this precise list of duties for the event officer in the Jenkins governance documents describes things that were specific to meetup that we think are probably Better handled by you. Did I say that correctly? Oh, like Yeah, because you you will now have permissions to those some of those things so we actually need to really consider should the event officer Official description be corrected so that we can Admit we're going to rely on CDF and Jackie to handle that Yeah Yeah, just let me know how I can get plugged in so I can take over that Well, basically you already did that There is a CDF foundation meetup page which recommends the processes Okay, and yeah, what we are going to do is to just rely on this page and To help away we can outside Promoting events through our channel with We can Jenkins meetup organizers with content speakers So this is what we still can do as advocacy on outreach special interest group. Okay And I believe that we should keep doing that But on the other hand the operations party. It's already Documentation site Got it. Okay. So Alyssa all set up some time for us to just make sure that we cover everything Yeah Yeah, I think that's a good idea So Yeah, thanks a lot to everybody and thanks a lot to Lisa Jacqueline for putting a lot of work for the internet Yeah, sorry guys for all the thrash No, we're just one thing that one thing to I always like to make people aware of Jacqueline We're yeah, and nobody faults you for being human that so don't don't feel that you oh my god I screwed up on them. No, you're human mistake happen. So We just fix them and we learn from that's the best part about it, but we fix collaboratively so again, don't discount yourself Thank you. Oh great, and I mean nobody expected that This data corruption would happen, you know with meetup.com once they delete it. That's that's on their side Yeah, yes And we're trying and like we're trying to fix that that's why I just want to make sure that like the ones Let's tackle the stuff that's like high priority and then let them work on that other stuff afterwards so Okay, so should we move on? Yep. Yes So anything else to discuss on archiving down the old channels? I Assume yes, we've got that's a process we need to work through just to shut them down Well, there is no process because we have never done that But yeah, we have issues with all channels to be used to do. So there is Genki CI Jam channel this channel mostly was used for meetup operations and again There is no specific need to keep it running since meetup operations and go to the CDF process So my proposal is to just shut it down archive because maintaining it is additional effort It we also have issues with spam there if you just go to the channel you may discover that two-thirds of the channel Advertisement of whatever it you related stuff not related to jumps So yeah, my suggestion archive it use CDF sorry Advocacy and outreach seek for all kinds of communications, I mean promotions of jumps content speakers So this is where we can have a total help Okay, yeah, so do we need it do we need to get somebody's specific approval? That's or that was just an operational thing. We decide here in advocacy and we're done I got approval from the governance meeting yesterday So as far as I'm concerned the top Jenkins Entity approved it. Great. All right Yeah, so regarding cover lists Jenkins events force them scale. They're just not really active so My proposal would be to do basically the same just archive Remove them from the listings It will require some additional operations because this may increase self-hosted and actually that's another reason to get rid of them because You would rather remove the mail server To reduce the infrastructure cause and to reduce the maintenance cost So if we can just archive them in a nice way, for example, dump and cover the thing to get help or whatever We could recommission additional service Great, okay. Yeah, so basically we have four main increase left on the service three of them are listed here and The first one is Jenkins infrastructure million at least and I believe for there was discussion about moving out of it anyway so it's out of the scope for this sick, but I believe that Approach you there that we want to move that million at least somewhere most likely to Google groups. I Mean we are heavily dependent on Google on Google groups anyway So what possibly go wrong? right, okay So is is that one where we need an action item on the on the process or Well, I need to figure it out with Olivia. It's infrastructure or admin. I have a plan to discuss it at the next in front of me here So it won't happen immediately, but if everybody's On board with just the decommissioning this at least an archiving there. I'm happy to implement it. Great Is it funny with you, Alyssa? Because historically at least this requires some additional Internals if you don't use them, okay, let's get rid of that I agree excellent ready to move to the next topic Okay Let's move So for them. Yeah, we have a blog post published with announcement We have a new page on Jenkins IO which just summarizes all for them activities and contains archive for previous for them events So our plan is two days of for them. We also have CI CD death room on Sunday. It's February 2nd Well, it's basically listed on the first link. So, you know, no, no point duplicating. Thanks Well, you can post it for whom ever it's the meeting notes, but it's on the link anyway So in addition to that we have a Jenkins contributor summit on January 31st It will be a small event because you're really needed to 20 people And the folks will be really on contributors So there will be no user focused content there So we will be talking about governance about the architecture changes. We need to deliver on about infrastructure changes We need to deliver on Yeah, and let's see how many people we get there because so far there are more cancellations than confirmations There are something quite 809 RSVPs confirmed plus other people who are likely coming And May in addition to that we have Trainings for Jenkins and Jenkins X on January 30th So this training suppositors post on fringe events and we likely need to spend more time on promoting them Yeah, and for example mark since you have access to Twitter now you could just handle that Yes Jackie I was wondering if we can add these two Jenkins to CDF events page Do you miss Jackie? She's online. She's gonna you're on mute Jackie. I'll touch base with her after the meeting. I Have a I have a question in relations to Fosdom, but more towards the general Gist of when we do contributor summits and things prior to a larger event sort of day zero Events this my question is is basically Do we have any way to track? What the number of people that RSVP for a given event Versus the number of people that actually show up and there's a reason why I'm asking that Hmm. Yeah, so What we do at the beginning of contributor summit we usually do quick self introductions or count people So we have a list of people who actually participated But if you ask me whether we update meetup.com to mark People who really came and not no we do not do that. I Wonder if it would be so Sub-partion to that. I wonder if it would be good if we started tracking that especially as we come up to Jenkins world US and the reason that I wonder if this would be good is because we're basing space Off of you know, the turnout we're expecting to get and if we understand that that people We were having a higher sign-up rate than people are actually attending I wonder if it makes sense to start charging like a sort of hold fee Like five dollars And if you show up, it'll go back to you this way We ensure that and then we could even donate them on right any people that don't show up We can donate it to a charity. I just think that may be something to think about Yeah, so I can speak with regards to when we do when we do the contributor summit at like DevOps world we get from like I think In 2019 and in San Francisco, we had about I want to say close to 100 people And then same thing for Lisbon. I think in Lisbon. We had 85 people that attended Now the the people who registered Most of them did came But then we also had people who also walked in as well Um But then I noticed when we do like contribute summit before Like Fostum our crowd here is much smaller You know, we're we're staying we've been staying at around 20 to 30 attendees And that's been consistent every, you know, at least for the times that I've been part of the program Mm-hmm. Yeah, so Mm-hmm. There are some usual suspects People change But to be honest, we have never experienced the issues with the when you've been overcrowded Or with the when you've been kind of crowded So maybe tracking people I'm not sure what would be the benefit in that market uh I think it's good to To know and I think it's good from a data perspective If we ever wanted to grab that data, do we have it if we ever I just think it we don't have to I just think it's something we should think about Yeah But we don't have to spend an exorbitant amount of time In on this call in regards to that but just something that maybe we put You know sort of as a spike to look at later Yeah, maybe it makes sense to consider that uh for Or new events being organized like cd summit Uh to track jenki's attendance there so that we have some data for cdf for example to justify jenki's contributor summit there And jenki's meetings during cd summits and whatever cd conferences because for jenki's vault It becomes a bit different Because there is no more jenki's vaults. There is devops vault now. Yeah Yeah, I think that's a great idea to have the Especially like because we're trying to have a cd a large cd con if you guys can bring that on site, that would be awesome Yeah, so uh this data would be helpful to understand How much space to get and give the projects for the right? Yeah, yeah That would be really helpful because I I mean that's like eventually that's the How I envision these cd cons growing and I'd love it to be more of a meeting place for everybody um, but I think right now that's where we're struggling is to To figure out how much budget we really need for each of these And how much to really go out and and really market and work on sponsorship sales So that'd be really helpful. Thank you guys Mm-hmm. Okay Thank you, Joe um, so Mark anything else about this topic? Are you satisfied with it? No, I'm fine with it. Thank you. Okay Thank you, Tom Okay, next topic community bridge. Yeah, uh, so for community bridge week update So what I was doing over past Few months is preparing to community bridge funding Uh, because yeah, we use community bridge funding now for To run a mentorship program So community bridge portal consists of two main parts one is mentorship another one is funding And for funding, uh, yeah now we need to do something because spi Will not longer accept funding As it was decided in May 2019 And we do not have other donation Ways So there was idea to use community bridge portal by linux foundation for that And I just made a proposal in the developer my link list to implement that But uh implementation so that we can test and evaluate that and yes, they are good approval for that So my plan is to proceed and uh to make some updates on the community bridge page so that The nations are available not only for mentorship, but for other targets And if the experiment is successful, it could be just additional source of cash flow for that Beijing project, which we're going to use for Uh programs for sponsoring Targeted changes like documentation or development or for sponsoring meetups so yeah So far so good and uh, I hope that we can get it implemented Uh, I have a question to Jacqueline about that So is it fine from the cdf standpoint if we do this, uh page? Um, let me take a look, sorry Uh, I I'm not sure, but I'm happy to go and ask Dan Um, I don't think we would I don't think there's an issue to be quite honest But I'll just double check in case there's something that I don't know Yeah, uh, so there is a lot of fun Do we do so leg? I don't know if we lost him, but we did he did just drop out so While we're waiting for him to return Jacqueline Jackie what's your preferred? I'll Jackie's great. Thank you. Okay ckie Uh jacqie Thank you Without got it. Yeah got it like that Yeah, okay. Thank you Sorry. Yes, and Oleg's note here at the bottom proposal. Let's give edit permission to mark weight is a good proposal. We'll do that later You've all been very patient while I've been typing and he's been accepting my typing. What a what a terrible waste. Sorry Okay So while we in hopes that Oleg is able to return How about we switch topics to jankin's expositioning this one? I think I can online. Oh, you're are you back only? uh Yeah, so I just wanted to have a quick vote about a brand new market more permissions But yeah Yes, I there was unanimous acclaim that no need to even call for the vote. They all agree Oh Yeah, I think we can just do it at the next meeting Because we are almost close to the end Anything else then on community bridge? I like that you wanted to discuss Nothing else. Um, well one thing that uh, we've got transfer for sludden newness It's a mentee who was working with the jankin's project This year working on jkask developer tools So we got three seven dollars transferred from SPI to linux foundation And it now appears as a sponsorship on community bridge So the next step is to actually get the payment out so that sludden Receives the money because the project is completed So it took a while to do that Yeah, so mostly on uh due to communication. So this SPI because yeah, it has never been fast But yeah, we are getting there Okay, so we haven't yet actually had the payment reached slightly No, not yet. Okay So what we did we self donated money So basically jinkins project donated money to the jinkins project Uh, but yeah on our linux foundation accounts So now we can do the payment transfer Great All right Ready for next topic. We're running out of time or I may have already run out of time jankin's expositioning in jankin's media Yeah, so basically we have never discussed this topic So I just ran a praise In a new year blog post the jankin's exposition is a jankin sub project and became a new project in the umbrella of cdf So basically it's just summarizes the current status But yeah, I just wanted to ensure that everybody is finding this is such a work thing Agreed from me Okay Market has dropped. Oh, yeah the drop. Okay, then I think we've got a we've got consensus then It's fine with me as well. I think that's fine Yeah, so I just needed some wording and apparently So if we make it a kind of official wording for example, uh, I can use it For press information or because yeah, we have summary for some projects on the press information So I can just use it as a citation to put it there If somebody asks Yeah, so I'm daring to make some changes. Oh, like Uh, just do it. Okay Okay All right, so Um before we drop so I I have one um I had set up a meeting with commint strip for next Thursday And I know like you suggested that we use this channel for that meeting which I think it's a great idea Um, but I think our next sick meeting our next meeting is is uh Not next week, right? Are you guys okay with me keeping that meeting for next Thursday? Or do you want me to move that meeting out? No, I think that it's fine. We can always do our forwarder meeting. Yeah, it's good for me next Thursday as far as I know Yeah, but other than uh into weeks because we have for them. Yeah, two weeks is a non starter two weeks. Absolutely not available right Right. No, okay. All right. I'll keep it for next week And I anticipate that um, we're gonna take uh, probably the whole Possibly the 45 minute or one hour for it because it's basically a brainstorming session Okay Great. Thank you so much Yeah, would you be able to send an announcement uh to the sick mailing list Yes, and to the developer. Well, we always have it in the developer mailing list Okay And yeah, I'll update Jenkins calendar to get it posted Okay And that um, I guess I can get the dial in information from up here They use the same link here Oleg Well, we can use the same So yeah, we can use the same link, but it requires somebody to run it Because you don't have access to this Zoom account Right basically dfzoma So, okay. I actually have access to that cdf zoom account if you need if oleg you're not available I've preferred to use my personal my own account, but I I actually have access to cdf count as well unless its passwords change Yeah, uh, it didn't change Okay, and yeah, I'm also happy to join so it's less on the current You can do it. Great. Okay. Well, we cannot be boss online because yeah taking my network is better to have a backup Ah, right. Okay Okay Uh, so Yeah, if you add down that, uh, let's do it. Um, yeah, thanks a lot Alisa for driving that. Yeah, thanks a lot To cloud this for doing sponsorship Here here All right, so I think we're done. I'm gonna go ahead and Anything else that we need to process before we call an end Not for me Okay