 Hi, I'm Chomo Tsoboe, and I'm an entrepreneur from Soweta. Soweta's come a long way, from a small township to a mini-city of its own. Soweta's got some really, really nice suburbs, like Deep Cliff Extension, but the locals call it Deep Cliff Expensive. Orlando's known as a suburb that had the first brick houses built in Soweta. Orlando Stadium for its iconic games between KZ Cheese and Pirates. And most importantly, Villagasi Street, where Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu resided. To the west of Soweta, you find suburbs of Dobsonville and Pretier. These two suburbs are actually very cosmopolitan, fresh, young, and very new. Right next door to Soweta, we have a neighbouring suburb, which is rather out of park. It's a little adventure and a little fun. Soweta's got so many night spots, from the Newsker Fert, Montpoyne Mall, to your Villagasi Street's Akumsis, to just chilling at Chuff Pausies just between the towers and having a simple, bright place, Chesanyama. Something very close to my heart is actually seeing people move back into Soweta, growing businesses, remodeling homes. It merely says to us that Soweta's a growing city. There's way more to this place than what we think. Soweta needs to be discovered daily. I'm so proud to call Soweta my home. And this is my neighbourhood. We're officially in level three restrictions. I'm sure a lot of people are celebrating. Not only are you able to go buy your liquor, but we also know that, of course, estate agents can officially operate under level three restrictions, which, of course, is good news for a lot of followers of this podcast. Even when looking at a topic that haven't quite explored over the weeks, and I think it's one of those things that so many of us probably have an interest in, but really have a number of question marks when it comes to how do we best navigate it? You're probably wondering, what are we going to be exploring? We're going to be looking at the opportunities in the townships or property market. I'm going to be exploring how you can potentially get into that market. The demand is the demand. How do you best capture that demand? And also some of the Jews and don'ts when you're looking at that market. And to help us better understand the township property market, I'm joined this evening by Utiko Mulavi, who's the founder of Rumsa that deals primarily with the Ghazi property market and ensuring that they're a great outlet for people who are interested in letting their particular properties in the township and for tenants, of course, who are looking for those properties. Utiko, thank you so much for joining us this evening. It's a pleasure. Thank you for inviting me. So I think before we even go anyway, because I certainly want to have a conversation about the work that Rumsa does and how it basically captures that particular market and how it's so important in the value chain of the Ghazi property market, perhaps let's take a few steps back and look at how, I'll say, the landscape of where the market currently is right now. I think a lot of us who might have a little bit of familiarity with the market, probably recognize it as, you know, I'm a bedroom when you lived in the main house and more often than not, it would be relatively informal. So you'd grow up knowing that, okay, okay, there's that bedroom that they kind of lit and they'd be a family that sometimes stays there for an extended period of time, they pay rentals, some months maybe they don't. However, we never really did look at that as a formal market or something that we can now, you know, advertise and even perhaps want to get into. So perhaps give us a landscape of where we are in terms of that property market in the townships. Okay, so like you mentioned earlier, so we've always had bedrooms. Backrooms have always been there, particularly in townships. Most of the time it was, you know, you have a small family, the kids grow up, they went a bit of their privacy. So, you know, bedrooms are built, but then they leave after a couple of years, they get married, they want to start their own families. And then you have all those rooms now being vacant. So that's how it's been and that's how this market started. So the back market, that's how it started and it's been evolving ever since. It's been known previously as sort of like an informal market, but I think over the past five to about 10, 15 years, I mean, sorry, five, 10 years, it's really evolved, it's growing, it's growing on strong. Particularly, it's influenced by, if you have to look at nationally, we have a lot of guys coming from our neighboring countries, migrants coming from our neighboring countries, so they obviously help on that market. Then nationally as well, you have a lot of people migrating from rural areas into cities. Of course, because of jobs, because they're looking for jobs, so that helps because of the pricing of those rooms and their rental and so forth. So you have a lot of people fueling that market. But another of people that are also fueling that market, mostly, you have young people that actually don't want to move away from townships and areas like that, but they want to stay close to their families, but they want a little bit of privacy, so they also form a sub part of the market. And another, just based on our research, another market that we've seen emerge in the, I think about two years or so, is that you find a lot of young graduates and very young people that are working, that are still working towards buying their own homes, still saving towards their own homes, but so they start within the room market first, before they do that, so then they start within the room market, they rent first, and then they move on to buying either a flat or a low-cost housing. So that's what fueling that room market right now. So it is obviously made investment in the cash market a little bit more available to a lot of people. So yeah, so that's that. I think if you're just joining us at home, and I'm speaking to Otecomo Chabi, who's the founder of the room store, we're talking about some of the opportunities in the township property market. If you have any questions or comments, perhaps you're an investor in that particular market, do you send them through if you're exploring, getting into that market and perhaps you're struggling with running some of your numbers or uncertain about how to best navigate tapping into the cash property market, then do you send us through those questions? Degas, I want us to talk about some of the demand. I mean, you've already sort of done a really good job at splitting the different kinds of people who are potentially interested in that market. And some of them, of course, it's more often than not, they're starting sort of the first step in their property ladder because perhaps they might not afford places that have higher rental or that place is quite conveniently placed. So it's on the main route. They're basically getting on to one taxi and then they're finding themselves in the CBD and then perhaps going to wherever it is that they work. What's the landscape of the demand? Because I think if you're watching the show and you're thinking, okay, maybe I have the family home and we're not really utilizing the back rooms because all of us have moved out and we've got a little bit of money. We want to maybe build those nice rooms which we'll talk to a little bit because I know a lot of people are also looking at building quality bachelor rooms as opposed to just having an empty room and just thinking a tenant is going to go buy it but there really has been quite a significant amount of work that's been put into the quality of the offering. What would you say the demand looks like? I mean, is this a kind of market that an investor should be looking into or should you just rather go into the suburban or relatively suburban in the CBD market instead of exploring this market? I mean, you deal with the demand side where you've got obviously the landlords but also you also get the influx of the actual tenants who are looking for a place. Okay, so the demand is quite huge. I mean, it's really like I said, I think based on the reasons that I alluded on earlier, it's really a big market and a great market. It's a market that's estimated to be transacting at at least nine billion a rent per year. So it's a huge market and it will continue to grow. Part of the reasons being the reasons that I've alluded to earlier on but at the same time, it's not only, I think people only thought or only used to know back when it's just for in the township areas, you know, it's a lot. So you have the township areas, you have the mining areas, a lot of people in the mining areas don't come from the mine, those mining areas come from elsewhere and they have living out allowances but they don't actually want to build homes in those mining areas. They're rather rent and then build at home. So that obviously then creates a market. So it's a really big market. And yeah, so yeah, I think, I don't know if I've answered your question or you need me to dig in more. But I think, yeah, so it is quite a huge market that, oh, and oh, sorry, just before I forget. So another, so it's not only, the trend is not only in townships. We've also seen that the room market is also emerging within the suburban areas. And the reason being that a lot of people have helpers. So if you have a helper and, you know, you don't want them to knock off it and you knock off from work at five o'clock at night. I mean, in the evening and you get home at about seven o'clock, you have kids at home and so forth. So you would want to help out or the security guard, however, to knock off at about eight o'clock. So then so there's some investors and some developers that have developed some rooms, within the suburban areas to house that particular market so that you can at least eight o'clock or so will drop off your helper and be able to pick them up at around six o'clock in the morning before you go back at work. So it's a market that's slowly evolving. And as you said earlier on, also the profile of a tenant is changing. You know, a long ago, you used to have, you just used to cater to the lower LSM, but not anymore. So you have, you know, young graduates, like I said, young people that are working. And so they're also looking for better type units. They're also looking for things like Wi-Fi, a conditioning, you know, DSTV and those types of stuff. So the profile is also changing. So which is also creating a market on so. So I want to actually look at some of the opportunities and threats within the Garcia property market and we'll look at the opportunities after we come back from the earthquake. But before we go on that outbreak, perhaps let's explore some of the threats because I think a lot of people have a number of question marks and I've certainly seen interested investors who perhaps don't live in that particular area, want to buy a place and want to get it at a very discounted amount. And you might have, let's say Diego's got a title deed for the family home or he doesn't have a title deed, but then goes and sells the family home, you know, cash is in the money only for it to later emerge that actually Diego was not the rightful place to even sell that particular place. And you've now bought it at a discounted amount and you think, look, I've just made a killing. And the intention for you is of course, to build those back rooms and those quality, you know, bachelor rooms in the back. But then of course, that becomes quite a big issue. And we've seen quite a lot of that, particularly within the township market. What are some of the threats that prospective investors need to be looking out for? And perhaps as part of their due diligence as they explore which properties to, you know, chase while they're looking for that property to invest in. Okay, all right. So the first thing that investors have to definitely do is check with the deeds office. You definitely have to check with the deeds office and exactly who owns that piece of property or land or so. Because we've seen a lot of, especially when it comes to us black people, we've seen in township areas, we've seen there's a lot of family wars on who owns that property or not. And there's a lot of free title deeds and so forth. So you have to have to have to check with the deeds office on exactly who owns the property and whether they do have the right to do sell their property. So that's number one. You definitely have to have to check on who owns the property. And then, so what was the second question? Theresa, maybe it was a lengthy one. No, so we're exploring the threats and what they should be looking out for when they're doing their duty diligence. Yeah, so it's mostly that. So you need to look into that and into title deeds on who exactly owns that title deed. And then also check, there's also agents within the room businesses. So you have to also check with a couple of agents. They can also help to make sure that you go through some diligence there so that you do the right thing. But at the same time, so another thing that one can do is that if you, so for example, if you don't have money to invest and you want to help to get help in terms of investment, there's a couple of institutions, funding institutions such as turf via UMA standard that helps people in terms of investment funding. So you can talk to those guys and they also do help with some due diligence to see exactly who owns the property and how. And so you have guys like turf, a company called iBuild. You have the other guys that are really, they have the funding models quite interesting called Hassanomics. And then you have other guys called Inzoo. So when you deal with those guys, I think they will be able to help you to do property diligence. And you've certainly explored or briefly spoken about Tuff. I think one of our earlier guests, a few episodes ago had actually bought a block of flats and it was in the process of buying her second block of flats who had used Tuff as a funding institution. And we promised our viewers at home that we'll definitely bring them in to talk about some of the offerings. Of course, if you're interested in investing in the inner city, Tuff is one of the financial go-to institutions. Another initiative or other product that they've recently launched, I think it was last time I signed it, that focuses primarily on the township property market. And that's also another product that we'll talk to them extensively about, especially because they've now got a few case studies they can share with us. And really just to track some of the success of the project that they have funded. We're going to go for a quick break. And when we come back, we're going to look at some of the opportunities within the township property market, but also look at what Rooster does and the work that they're essentially doing in filling the gap within the property township market. Of course, if you are watching us from YouTube or rather from Facebook, you know that we're running that YouTube competition. So all you have to do is subscribe to our YouTube channel, take that screenshot, share it right here and you stand a chance of winning 1,000 rand at the end of the week. So we're announcing the winner right here on the private property podcast of that 1,000 rand price. Of course, we're going to be announcing two winners as usual right here on the show. So do get subscribing on our YouTube page that's private property on the YouTube. And we're going to take a quick break. I'm still joined by Diqo Moutlabi who's the founder of Roomstar. And after this, we'll be looking at opportunities and do's and don'ts when you want to get into the Gasi property market. We'll be back just after this. Welcome back to episode 36 of our private property podcast. I'm your host, Uzamantungwa Kumalu. This evening I'm joined by Diqo Moutlabi who's the founder of Roomstar. We're exploring opportunities in the township property market. So if you've ever wanted to get into the township property market, perhaps you don't know where to start. You don't know some of the things that you're looking out for. You don't even know some of the opportunities that might be there. Then this is the podcast for you. Before the break, we looked at some of the threats that are in the market. And of course, one of them is to make sure that you adequately do your due diligence. You want to make sure that the title deed of a particular property that you buy belongs to the people that are actually selling you their property. We've heard a number of horror stories when it comes to title deed drama, when it comes to a lot of houses in the township. It is, as Diqo has mentioned earlier, quite a big market with a lot of demand and really different types of players and people within different LSMs who are looking for space. And sometimes perhaps there isn't enough stock or certainly quality stock in the space. And we'll talk a little bit about how Roomstar comes into meeting some of that demand or making sure that they provide a platform or service that prospective tenants can access in the event where they find a home. Now I did promise our viewers at home that after the break, we'll be looking at some of the opportunities that are in the market for people who are looking at it, whether it's different ways you can go about it. I mean, I've seen a few interesting models that people have explored and are using in managing their Gasi portfolio, which sometimes is quite big for your cash flow purposes. I think it can be quite a big cash cow and certainly the investors that I've seen using it have used that to be their primary cash cow. What are some of the different ways that you've seen people do it, whether it's renting out the house, making the house a double story, building back rooms and those sort of things. Perhaps share with our viewers some of those opportunities that you've seen out there in the market. Okay, good. So the obvious one would be if you or your parents or somebody in your family owns a house where you get space at the back, you can build rooms. So that would be number one. I think that's the most obvious one. So the second one would be for you to find a piece of land, then go ahead and develop it and build rooms. So that would be the second one. So you gotta look at, you obviously gotta look at, so not obviously, but you gotta look at things like the economy or rather where the jobs are at. So for me, we've always looked at areas where the jobs are close to the cities because those are the areas that have more demand. Universities just before COVID-19 were also part of big places to look into. So those are mostly the areas that one needs to look into when you're building these homes. Then of course, because we are dealing with property, location, location is the best thing. And then of course, you gotta look at the finishes as well, parking, the type of stuff where you can get parking in. As I said earlier on that the profile of a tenant has changed quite drastically. So you gotta look at all of that stuff. So and then you'd be able to make a decision on what would be your best investment and get the better yields. And I think this is where I actually wanted to talk a little bit about RoomStar. Perhaps share with our viewers at home what RoomStar essentially does. So we've been talking a little bit about the service that you provide but haven't quite answered the what exactly does RoomStar do. Okay, so RoomStar is an online platform just the same as private property and other of your competitors. So where we link, so it's an online platform or portal where we link a tenant to, I mean, sorry, prospective tenant to a landlord online and we only deal with rooms and roommates. So if you're looking for a room in all nine provinces of South Africa, if you're looking for a roommate, so we can be able to facilitate that. It's a free platform, so it's all free. There's agents on it, so agents themselves can build. So if you are an agent, you can build your own little hub onto the platform. And what we have built onto a platform is that we built a mapping system that allows prospective tenants when they look at a particular room at a particular place to be able to view all the important and amenities for the, for VC that LSM that we catering for. So if you click on a room, you can be able to see a closest taxi ranks around you, close bus stations, train stations, malls, food and so forth so that a tenant can easily make a decision on what type of properties they should be looking for. And then on the platform as well, we also have service providers. So anybody can, anyone who is a service provider is related to housing or room services can list their services and one can be able to find them just on the mapping system. So in a nutshell, that's what rooms are done. So it helps a tenant and so it helps to connect your tenant and the landlord in that particular space. So previously, and the reason why we rooms that was funded is was previously people had to travel from pillar to post to go view a room and only to find out it's not really what they were looking for. So we helping with that. What we've also helped with as well is that that the room market has always been perceived as an informal market. So we are actually helping to facilitate to make it more of a formal market. We're helping people with things like lease agreements so people who have lease agreements and things like that too for them to understand what they're getting themselves into because people, previously people just used to rent for like three, four months when it comes to rooms but now people are taking up to at least three a lease. So they always have to understand what they're getting themselves into. So that's basically what rooms that does an action. And I think one of the important things about that particular service is the formalizing of that township property market. I think so many things around the township value chain in its entirety typically tends to be regarded as informal. And while there's a lot of value to the informality of it and I mean, I come from Iqasi myself. So I also understand how that's a function of the way that we live but also how that actually does work in certainly in providing some of the goods and services that we want. But we also also realizing that as we're getting I'll say more and more exposed to other formal markets you certainly want certain aspects of your livelihood Iqasi to also be formalized. So we're already seeing things like for example, bicycle deliveries. So if you ever wanted deliveries within the township market we're not able to have those deliveries. So if you were ordering, you know, I'm a queen within your neighborhood they can now be delivered to your house. So services like that are becoming increasingly quite popular within the township because we are of course, you know familiar with how they play out in the more formal market or like in the suburbs or in the CBD. So I think it's certainly something that is needed especially when you look at something like a lease agreement I mean, I can imagine somebody living in a place you want to make sure that you have a, you know the right lease in place, there was an inspection done your landlord is not going to come back and say no, you must get out of my house. This is my property. So I think the formalizing of living spaces in the township is such an important one. So for any viewers at home who are looking at going into the property, the township property market what would your three tips be for those viewers at home? So my three tips would be, you know first of all, just to start off with I think people don't realize just how much, you know potential this market has. Number one, number two, you know it's easier to get into this market compared to getting into other types of market like buying into suburban areas and so forth. So I think in the cost of building per square meter if you're building a flat or a house you're looking at at least about 4,000, 5,000 random square meter with the rooms or into the gas market you're looking at at least about 1,300 to about 2,000 based on your finishes on your per square meter. So the opportunities are quite big it's easy for one to get into. So the tips that I would give someone that's looking into starting into this market is look at areas that are first of all you look at areas that are close to I think as I mentioned earlier that are close to factories and jobs and so forth. You know those properties are forever occupied so that's one that you need to look into. So sometimes at the same time as well maybe try to avoid areas that have always been there like your sweaters and ten pieces and so forth. There's other areas where you talk to Joe Berg such as Cosmo Sitient and other areas like that that are quite easy to buy into. So you're obviously getting low that's the number one fundamental rule of any property investment to buy in low and then obviously you'll reap the rewards later on. And the third one would be to do due diligence all the time. So make sure that everything that you do is above board and yeah, so that's mostly there. So what's important for a few years at home you want to do your due diligence you want to explore different areas and not just the usual suspects like your Soweto or Timbisa but really you know you want to stretch yourself especially if for example in housing or even any other part of the country for that matter and to make sure that you're not only looking at the areas that we're all very familiar to where property prices may perhaps even be quite high. So buying low might not even be an option for you but you also want to make sure that you target those areas that are close to economic hubs whether it's factories or any other types of hubs and even close to public transport routes because somebody who wants a back room wants to take a very short walk to the nearest bus station or wherever taxis actually are. Diko we're going to leave it right there for years at home Diko's contact details and rooms as contact details are right here below in the link right on Facebook. So do make sure to reach out to them in the event where you're looking for a room or looking to place your room on their particular platform. Diko thank you so much for joining us this evening. Thank you very much, have a great evening. And that was Diko Moshlaibi who's the founder of the room. So we've been exploring the township property market and the opportunities that are there. Some of the do's and don'ts, opportunities and threats in that market. And it's certainly one that we're going to be talking quite a lot about. We've been talking about tough and we've mentioned them before we did promise that we're going to be bringing them on and we'll definitely keep that promise as we do. Of course if you've got any topics that you want us to cover do send them through we're more than happy to bring in experts that will help us better understand that issue. And you know to viewers at home we are of course running that YouTube competition. So make sure that you subscribe to the private property YouTube page. Take a screenshot, share it right here on Facebook and you stand a chance of winning that 1,000 rand price on Friday. That's it for me this evening on episode 33 or rather 36 of the private property podcast. I've been your host Ozamantunga Komalo. We're back again tomorrow evening with episode 37. Have a good night and keep staying safe. Hi, I'm Niclina Del Lange and I'm part of the ESEI Women's Hockey Team. And I'm the technical director of Taksa Hockey and also the assistant coach for the first two years. I moved to Ferry Glen about five years ago. Ferry Glen is a really safe place and the people are really kind. Some of my friends live really close by in suburbs like Equestria under Limbis. In the morning I will wake up, make myself a cup of coffee, go for a jog, in the Ferry Glen nature reserve or even just in the neighborhood. It's safe, quiet, and the environment is really nice. I love Ferry Glen because I'm near the city but I'm not in the city. I'm a country club. To clear my mind, I'm on my own to relax and just to enjoy a round of golf. In Pretoria East we really have nice places to visit like Menland Mall and Brooklyn Mall at a really close line. There are also a lot of top schools in the area like Pretoria Boys High School Menlo. One of the most beautiful places to see the whole of Pretoria is the fourth Tuppercop view point and that's my neighborhood.