 This is Stink Tech, Hawaii. Community Matters here. We're back. We're live with our flagship energy show. I'm Jay Fidel. This is Stink Tech and the flagship energy show I referred to is Hawaii, the State of Clean Energy, which is a creation of Sharon Moriwaki years ago. It has to be five, six, seven long time years ago. It's been a while. It's been a fun ride. It has, hasn't it? It has. It's been a great ride. From a small little nobody knew what was happening in energy to today, we have so much happening in energy. We don't know where to go with it. Right? So much. And you've been the co-chair all this time. I was there when you invented this show. I remember the moment I could, I could draw you a whole design of what happened. Remember, it came off of it being energy, the hidden crisis. Remember that? Yes, I do. It's every week, not just once, I think once a day. It was a great thing. It's been a great thing. And we've covered so much. And you've gotten better and better at organizing it and bringing people in for cogent discussions on what's going on. So here we are together. We were going to have Roz Beger. Sure. I'm so sure. But she has to do the people's work. You always expect that during the legislative session. So she has two hearings, and she really wanted to come. But it was scheduled at 2.45, and she didn't think she could get here in time. But we appreciate your work. And she will be here, so we need to make some time for her to come on another show. Yeah, we will, of course. So alone at last, you know what I'm saying? Yay! And I wanted to ask you to discuss the, well, first, the Maui conference that is taking place right now as we speak. Why we don't have many people here today. It's just us, Jay. We couldn't afford to go to Maui, Jay. Well, it's been going on for about five years. Yes. It's strong in the sense that it attracts some, you know, very heavyweight energy people. National energy people. And it gives them a chance to go away and push through themselves of Maui without all of the legislative, you know, session around. We're all stuck in the legislature. So I think it's a good thing to have a way that everybody in the field can mingle and see what's going on. So that's a good thing. So, yes, so they should be there. We hope to get news back next week of what happened and add it to our agenda. Yeah, they've had some creative discussions, I recall, over the years. And you've got to give them credit. You've got to give Maui County credit. The mayor and Fred Riddell, the energy commissioner. And it was the, what, MEDB, the Maui Economic Development Board. Jeannie Scott for a long time. She's done a good job. Very good in bringing all of that together. And they're the banner of economic development. So it is bringing in business. It's bringing in industry and innovators and entrepreneurs. So that's a good thing with government, with government. So while that's happening in Maui, and we wish them well, we'll find out what happened afterward. Let's talk about the legislature, which is happening right now. I can feel it. I can feel the waves emanating from the square building, and they are waves of energy, aren't they? They are waves of energy. And we heard from Representative Chair Chris Lee last week about all this happening. It was very good, wasn't it? And I think on the Senate side, there are a number of bills as well. And it's crossed. So there are some bills. I think I have the energy policy forum does monitor these bills. And for those bills that we really think are very good or very bad, we chime in. But for most part, we see as it morphs through the session. And there are right now 25 bills that we've been watching. If I were in a nutshell, kind of put them into categories, I think there's a lot more planning kinds of bills. I think with climate change and sustainability, that's never been so front and center at the legislature. Climate change is wise. You've been instrumental in connecting, if you will, energy. The first issue, back when, has to be more than, well, whenever the energy policy forum started, that has to be almost 10 years ago. No, more like 15. 15. Oh, sorry. And you were the guy who created this need to bring everybody together and get behind clean energy because that wasn't the case when the energy policy forum started. And that was at least, what, five years of effort to make that public awareness. And you did that. You had a lot of programs to do that. And then, I remember this was like the light bulb went on. All of a sudden you said, wait a minute. What about transportation? Oh, that's right. You know, transportation is $6 billion worth of fossil fuel coming into the state every year, and we're, you know, frittering it away when we could have clean transportation. And I remember how you realized that and connected that up for a whole new direction. Want to talk about it? Sure. I think during that time, we saw that 60% really of the consumption came from transportation. A lot of it was a ground transportation. We weren't, we were doing all the work in the electrical sector. So we put together, at that time, we put together a task force. It was about 20 or 30 people from various sectors, the trucking industry, vehicle, automobile deals, association, HADA, and government. And part of it was to come up with a strategy for how do we deal with transportation because it's not regulated. It's all over, and we're using so much of it. There's airlines as well as ground. But the big part of it was ground. So we got a grant. We went for federal money. We got some state money. And we put together a strategic plan. We did some research of where people were in terms of the kinds of transportation. What would they do? Gas prices went up, gas prices went down. What would they be willing to do? And this was before EVs were on the road. This was 2008 or 2009. And we've kept on going in that direction, but the real push was in the electrical sector. Well, today, when we talk about it, on the books at the legislature, it's now having total 100% renewables in transportation, ground transportation. And that's a far cry from where we were. But it's just the aspiration. And when you have people in the field saying, well, you got to not put it out there because then it's just too overwhelming, daunting. We can't get there. I think that's the back and forth of having a goal that's aspirational, but having milestones in which we can slowly move to that. And so you build the market around it. So that's where we are today. Just as you were instrumental in development of the energy policy forum in the first place, and for that matter, the Clean Energy Initiative, even before Lingo Lingo ever created the Clean Energy Initiative program back in 2008. I was saying, it's just the stars came together at that time. Okay. The stars came together. But you were there, Sharon. I attribute a lot of the energy and energy to you. But then this whole thing about transportation, it struck me at the time that this was not easy because everybody was focused on solar and clean energy and talk about the mix, what kind of sources of clean energy from the environment in Hither and Jan. And all of a sudden, you said it was you. I wasn't really aware of this. We got to do something about transportation. You had to work very hard because it is not a natural connection in the public view in the public sphere. And you had to bring those strands, those connections together to make people realize that this is all part of the same pie. And you've done that. And look what happened. Legislature now recognizes the fact that they're connected and industry recognizes it and government at all levels recognize it. There are all these coordinates around town, around the state. They're all focused on transportation. I'm sorry to say, I believe, this is my view, that you were instrumental in raising that level of awareness. Visionary, Sharon. I'm sorry. That's what I feel. Well, thank you, Jay. But I wouldn't take all that much credit. I think that it was something that needed to be stated. I think people knew it. They knew that transportation was a big part of our energy use and our fossil fuel use. But it was just hard to get a handle on. And so now, I think people coming together, again, it's always the collaboration, people coming together and saying, yes, this is a need. This is something we should do. So now the Department of Transportation, remember the Department of Transportation, is going to come to the table. Right. We can even get them to talk about it. Yeah. So now they're leading the charge. They have a sustainable transportation task force. They've been meeting for a couple of years, and they go around to the neighbor islands as well. Because our leaders, like Kauai and Maui and the big island, have a say, and they are leading the charge on the ground transportation. And the counties have raised their awareness. They have offices dealing with it. They have people whose job it is to realize clean transportation. And they talk about it all the time. They weren't talking about it five years ago, I'm sorry. No, right. So today it's really front and center of what we're doing. And the other thing I just want to say is that we've pushed, this is the energy policy form, of everybody coming to the table and looking at it in a big picture way. This is my area and I just want to have my bill or my company support. It really is what is good for the state. And so transportation, what we've brought together more recently is the integration of transportation and electricity. That it's really one big how we use fossil fuel or not. And how to get that integrated and more into a comprehensive view of how we as a state can work together. Yeah. And then you realize over time when you start integrating these things, you realize that energy is so important in our lives, in our society together, in our economy and in our future. And we cannot marginalize it in any way. We have to see it as central in pretty much all our planning and all the things we do. That's one thing that comes out of it. To me is the energy policy forum could not have done this without, you know, it's like we say in the law of business, real estate is not about land. Real estate is about relationships. That's right. And so is energy. Absolutely, absolutely. I think without the kinds of people on the forum and it's over time we've involved. But it's getting all the diverse sectors and organizations. But the people, it's the people who trust each other that we're all doing what's good for the state. And that's like 80% of really the challenge, right? And we have that on the forum, which, you know, I think that's one of the reasons why we've been successful in pushing the envelope on energy all these years in a collaborative, civil way of people coming together. That's true. I mean, you have on the forum, you have people whose interests financially, economically are very diverse. You have the oil companies on one side and you have the activists on the other side. And somehow you've got them to talk to each other. And they do. Yeah, and they do. And I think it's, again, you say, what you say is true. It's a relationship that if you know a person, you know, and you like a person, then you can deal with the problems and how you resolve the problems. And that's, you know, how we've operated, you know, in terms of working together. It always amazes me how you do this, Sharon. You know, you're a people person, but you also understand business. You understand government. I don't know about that. You understand the dynamics of human progress. And you understand the big picture, but you understand the personal relationships and you put it all together somehow. And the result is what I consider a great achievement in a fairly short period of time. Thank you, thank you. Okay, I mean every word of it. Well, you too, you've been really instrumental. I remember in the early days when we used to go to the legislature and we'd have a whole day briefing. And I think it was Mina, Representative Morita, who was helping us. She was a member of the forum. And she said, you know, we had these forums and you have all these people presenting, all this technical information. And she says, and you see, there's very few legislators here. She says it's boring. So then we started to, you know, with your help, we started to make it more fast, fast-paced. And we said, how does it deal with people's problems and putting it in the context of what does this mean for the public? What does it mean for people? And why you, Mr. and Ms. Legislator, should know this is what people care about and what we're doing about it. And that was you, Jay. So kudos to you. Well, thanks for that. But, you know, these legislative briefings, I consider very important. You always organize every year for, I don't know how many years already. Aside from the conferences that you've been doing for industry and for, you know, the players, the stakeholders, you also do this legislative briefing, which I think is very important to them. They should understand you. One cannot assume that legislators know what's going on. They're people like the rest of us. And you have to give them that, you know, that's going on. It's complex. And it gets more complex. And I want to refer back to what happened in the middle of January this year. Because that was another new departure. It was, yes. Because then you connected energy, transportation, and guess what? Oh, and sustainability. Sustainability. All together. And when we come back from this break, I want to ask you how you did that, because that's really important. We'll be right back. This is Think Tech Hawaii, raising public awareness. Living in this crazy world. So far up in the confusion. Nothing is making sense. For me and you, there's got to be solutions. How to make a brighter day. I'm Ethan Allen, host of Likeable Science on Think Tech Hawaii. Every Friday afternoon at 2 p.m., I hope you'll join me for Likeable Science, where we'll dig into science, dig into the meat of science, dig into the joy and delight of science. We'll discover why science is indeed fun, why science is interesting, why people should care about science, and care about the research that's being done out there. It's all great. It's all entertaining. It's all educational. So I hope to join me for Likeable Science. Okay, I'm Jay Fidel here on Hawaii, the state of clean energy. And you need to know the person sitting with me. Sharon Moriwaki. She's modest, but she has achieved incredible things in and around energy and transportation and now sustainability and planning, because what happened, what happened this year? And it's again, it's the same sort of process that happened where Sharon recognized the need to connect these things for good policy in the state and to communicate these things to the legislature. I hope that worked. She wrapped in, folded in notions that we've had a while, notions that spring out of environmental consciousness into the energy bailiwick, okay? And that means sustainability, environment. It means resilience. And it means planning. And you put all that together for the legislature in the middle of January, just before the session began. Can you talk about how that came to be and what happened? I think from the energy sphere, we've always felt that this was, we had to connect up the dots because it was related to the whole economy. It was related to our environment. And it's not, at the session, you're getting bills. There are very specific changes in the law or additions to the law. But we need a big picture and this forum has been working on this for like several years now. How do you get everybody who's involved in different parts of the picture together? And so this year, we wanted to focus on long range planning and the right kind of planning. And that you don't take your eyes off the track forward by diversions along the way, which is what has happened all these years. And so... With plans that go on the shelf and don't get realized or implemented. It's easier to kick the can down the road than try to put the money in where it should be. So we wanted to raise the awareness on planning. And I see some of the bills there here that still are alive now crossing that have to do with planning, sustainability, looking at energy and looking at the Paris Accord and different goals of it, which is energy, water, and various aspects of it, which is a big picture and how we need to really plan forward and stick to it. So the legislative briefing had an effect. I would hope so, but I mean, you know, because it's complex, you know, put all these things together. It's like trying to, you know, put a drawstring around everything and put it all on the table and have it interact. But it worked. I mean, they accepted this connection. And now we have an initiative that wraps around everything. And I think it's been developing over time. We've got the Hawaii Green Growth, which has brought together a lot of the county and state and federal agencies, as well as the mayors with the Aloha Challenge, which is sustainability again. But you know, sustainability was worked on way back when, with the Hawaii 2050. And it just sort of, I guess, was not really, its time had not come. Well, today it's really the foundation in law that now we can build on to really start putting some teeth and some structure to it. I hesitate to use the term, but it's like the perfect storm. Because we are going to get a perfect storm one of these days soon here in El Nino year. And it's going to shake us up. You're very prescient. We'd better get very conscious about this. And it's all together. We have to do things and plan things and take steps to protect ourselves, our community and our state and our economy. And now is the time to be focused on these things. That's what the briefing did. I feel like the legislature got the message. I think so. And well, of course, in the environment, they're seeing it for themselves. They're seeing Puerto Rico. They're seeing El Nino. They're seeing seawalls going down. That the commission on adaptation, they're trying to buttress that up. Because now the future is here. And if we don't do something today, what do we have to leave for our future generations? So I see a lot of support funding for training people on renewable energy systems, money for the planning forward, research and development, funding for technology, innovations. So people are now, the legislators are saying, okay, hey, we've got to plan forward. We've got to have some of the resources available in training of our people to be able to deal with and be resilient to all of the kinds of vulnerabilities around us. And if we lose that grid, and that's why the grid is so important, we lose our businesses and our homes and the quality of life. Look up in the morning without any energy in your house. And it's getting colder and colder. It's in my neighborhood. You need your electric blankets sometimes, you know? It's funny. You mentioned these things and the people involved in these things. They've all been through here. They've set up these shows, you know, year after year, month after month, week after week with the players, you know, from every side of the coin, every side of the table, they come through here. And if you really wanted to study energy in the state of Hawaii, just go through our shows. And you've set them all up, so it's really wonderful. So let's talk about what they're doing in the square building right now. I mean, because we know that it's a sausage machine. Sometimes you can put a brilliant bill in there, brilliantly inspired by who knows what. And then it goes, you know, into sausage and it doesn't come out the same way as it went in. So can you give us a little praisey on some of the big ones that are going through? Well, if they change this, and I think it's this RPS, the Renewable Portfolio Standard, they're trying to have a better definition of what's covered under it. And if you can do that and you change from the sale of electricity to the generation, then you start getting at the real heart of what we're trying to do, is reduce fossil fuel use and build up renewable energy. If you get incentives for storage and renewable technologies and some of the resources like wind and geothermal and you help the EVs get up to speed, then you're creating alternatives to fossil fuel. So the eye on the prize is how much can we reduce fossil fuel importation and use. It's not going to be easy and it's long term. So you can't just have a mandate and lose your companies that are using it now. But it's that pathway that I haven't seen anything on the pathway for. What is that plan that brings everybody along and still gets to that goal without just putting it in front of you. You are mandated to do, which businesses don't like to hear. So it's really coming together of all of the people who have an interest or are impacted by that that need to have the conversation and make it something that's doable and not just sounds good. Interestingly enough, the forum and you, you've set the tone of the conversation over a long period of time and it takes place now in the legislature and in the community is a function of that, is a function of the conversations that you've set up in the energy policy forum. And so it's a civil conversation. It's a conversation that looks forward and respects all views and all comers. It's a conversation that's essentially constructive and putting a lot of players together. This is not easy because there are factions and diverse interests and they don't necessarily agree with things. I mean there's a million different positions that are expressed and we as a state we have to find our way down that road. But the conversation is so important. The process is so important to reach the right goal on this. And I think when you say the conversations the way the forum operates I mean we all have our agendas. We all have our differences and what we are stakes but when we come to the forum and the forum is vetted the members are vetted by all the members. So whoever comes to the forum is vetted for their expertise and their interests. They have to bring a different segment of the energy sphere. But they all have to agree that they're going to be collaborative they're going to listen they're going to be bringing their perspective reach consensus and we do not go forward we have consensus. But we have learned over the years because of relations that we don't veto each other. So we didn't want the forum to be a veto kind of thing. So it's talk it through. It's the greater good. Somehow the forum has achieved a sense of the greater good the people involved in the whole tone of it is looking for the greater good which is remarkable. You don't find that very much these days. But let's talk about the ledge and let's talk about where the road is leading. Let me suggest that the big issues of the moment are going to be what we do with solar how government incentivizes and or not how government incentivizes the storage issue because solar and storage are together and whether the storage and solar for that matter are at the homeowner level or at the utility level all of these are questions in play even to the market but probably you need government to get involved. And I think that is one of the areas where government needs to play a more leadership role in this. We see it in a bill that Senator Baker was going to discuss with us on the PUC and what that should look like how they should be what should be their mission or goal how do you have permitting that safeguards the public's interest faster so we can get more projects online faster and do the work that we need to have done in a cost effective way. And you see agencies like DBED being required to be more helpful I guess in permitting I think there was a permitting office previously I don't know if they had funding for staffing but then you help developers who want and have common interest in development working with the utility working with the government and working with I guess finances. You have to achieve that same conversation in government as the reason for It would be good because I think that the permitting takes a long time but why should it take a long time if you have what information you need in order to make the decision and I don't know whether that process has been developed to streamline it so you get the answers you need and you say yay or nay and I don't know if it's that simple but it needs to be faster if we're going to get projects online and attract investment and attract developers willing to take risks it's really because in the end we need investors and entrepreneurs to build these projects including the utility and the utility has been through we can have a few shows just to identify the dynamic of how it's been for them through the life of this period we're talking about and they came away from Nextera and here they are and where are we going with the utility and with the industry I think the positive thing about the utility is now they're not just the utility but they are really a service provider and it has changed their focus in terms of customer driven kinds of activities which I think is like a major switch and it's good and healthy but how do you switch that from being an advocate for the consumer saying okay they want this I've got to go through PUC how can we get this so that we are representing their interest rather than we don't trust you so we're going to make you go through many more hoops and how do we as a state see that every single time you have more and more hours that you have to do getting there it costs money you spend millions I mean I don't know how much the utility spent on the whole Nextera millions and where did it get us not nowhere so can we do something that would cost less on that front end and get us where we want if it's a no a faster no well again it goes to the tenor of the conversation the way people treat each other a little aloha never hurt anybody and I think maybe in a funny way Nextera put us into a better frame of mind and I think we're in a pretty good frame of mind now I think the legislature hopefully will focus on these things this year and the years to come to make it easier to develop energy and especially renewable energy and meet our 100% goals and all that in transportation and in sustainability and I think the utility and the players the entrepreneurs will find hopefully a better environment to use that term where they can actually do stuff without getting stuck in bureaucracy so a lot of this I have to say Sharon at this point here we are in 2018 a lot of this you have cost you have rolled out the carpet for these developments and I think we all owe you something for your gratitude well it's all of us Jay you know that and it's been a fun time because you can actually see progress it's nice when you can see a little even if it's a little steps forward the energy space is so much broader and wider and something else too something you wanted to achieve years ago and I wanted to achieve also it's a level of public awareness I feel that the public state of Hawaii one way or the other one event one controversy or another is now much more aware and informed that's what we want that's what we always want thank you Sharon great to talk to you as always thanks for a lovely time together waiting for Ross thank you Ross Aloha Ross is going to be back next time when we can get her out of her committee Aloha