 Thank you guys for all coming out I hope you enjoy the stock like Alita said the goal of this is to learn what Street Pismology is And I think it's a fun topic. So how about this? Should I move this up a little higher? Cool, how about this? Can you guys hear testing? Yeah, nice everyone in the back I do songs by request too. Okay, so Let's start with some Basic introductions. Hello, my name is dr. Tyrone Wells and I'm working on a way to talk with anyone about anything and Again, just want to thank RET for having me again about a couple years ago I spoke here to talk about some of my scientific research, but now I'd like to talk about a hobby that I fell into But I think has solved the particular problem that I was facing when I was an atheist It's particularly when I was transitioning to from fism and I hear today because I believe that this hobby and that this strategy Could be a solution for you too Before I begin though, I'd like to just give a big shout out to Carl the technical wizard as well as Alita and Larry Thank you guys all for helping coordinate this event allowed me to be able to come here it means a lot to me and This is actually my first talk on Street Pistemology, so really if there's anyone here that can leave feedback, I'd really appreciate it I don't I'm a really big believer in critical feedback growth and Any anything that you guys think I wasn't clear on anything that you think I can prove upon Anything that you think that I could maybe elaborate a little bit better I would appreciate if you like just give me some feedback afterwards or I'll also be handing out these cards What you basically like my business card well hobby business cards And on the back is my contact info This is just keep getting lower Okay, anyway Sounds good everybody. All right, let's get into it So as I was transitioning from being a fierce to an atheist The majority of that occurred during like my midterm year of my grad school experience And I got my degree from PhD in biochemistry from the school chemistry and biochemistry So I was learning a lot about like evolution learning a lot by biochemical mechanisms and my Understanding was that I was getting better explanations for things rather than just answers So like the questions that I was raised to believe to be true my entire life. I was realizing that Through my grad school experience as I was meeting new people Going to new places being exposed to new perspectives My standard of evidence was increasing and improving as well as myself and the things that I was taught Since I was a young child to believe to be true no longer we're meeting that standard of evidence and it was a big amazing world-changing perspective altering, you know Realization because I realized that when I didn't have a good reason to believe in a God anymore. I was Isolated or like one of the only people around me seemingly that came to that understanding even in a scientific setting it was very common for people to have like some sort of spiritual or theistic based belief and The conversations that I would have with people after my realization was really difficult I realized I didn't have an effective way of talking to people about my belief Without making them feel defensive or making them feel like they were in an argument In fact my conversations would turn to the base and then ultimately into arguments and the people that I was around Never felt more further away as a result I Was beginning to feel as if there was like an invisible wall Between myself and the people I cared about the people I worked with people I called my friends because we couldn't connect through this really simple understanding that I came to and Without making people feel uneasy And so I try to throw away this topic. I try to say, you know, well to each his own I'll just degree to this degree. I won't worry about it, you know forget about it But I still thought the wall was there and I didn't know if there was a strategy to get through that wall Or if there was a strategy to get through that technique or that Conversational barrier that I was putting up these me myself and I think everyone does that in some regard with a number of topics Yeah, it's not something that's specific to atheists. Maybe theists feel that same way too. It could just be a human Nature issue so what would be a good way of talking to people about anything and that's when I stumbled upon like street Physiology, it was a really really cool way. I actually went to a meet-up group with ask and Was I normally asked people questions when I was at that meet-up group? It's like you just recently become an atheist Like how do you get what happened? Like what was the thing that made you like change your mind? I'm really interested. I'm really fascinated about that. And one of the guys said, oh, yeah That sounds like you're doing this one thing that this guy on YouTube is doing and I was like, oh that What's he do and he's like he just goes on the street and starts asking people about their faith I'm like that's really uncomfortable That's just rises up my anxiety left and right But I finally saw some of the videos that he was doing and I saw that his approach was pretty similar to what I was doing Except his strategy was really getting through to people While not making them defensive or turn the conversation to an argument I want to show you some of those techniques today as well as how I do it and some things that I've learned in the process So here is my outline Two planes. Yeah, that's cute Anyway, the first thing that I'm going to teach you about or talk about is what is se The second is why use se why empower yourself with this conversational tool that allows you to talk to anybody And then finally how let's see works I'm going to break it down to a really really awesome format such that by the end of this conversation All of you guys will be able to know exactly how to handle any conversations that you guys have in the future That can hopefully get people to think about the methods that they're using to reach their conclusions and whether or not that methods reliable All right, so first things first, let's talk about street epistemology I know when I first saw this, you know term the weirdest word that popped out to me was this one on the bottom I'm like, okay, so moon speak already special club. What's going on here? Right? Well Epistemology is just the study of how we come to know things is the theory of knowledge So an example that would be just how do we come about under to understand things? What's the process that we use to understand things and then the street the street is just a reference to Informal way to approach the conversation like the key point is that's informal. There's no strict flow chart that you follow There's no strict format and a lot of people can contribute to this using their own styles in particular skills that they're particularly good at and So when combine those two terms together street epistemology just becomes an informal way to ask people how they reach their conclusions Typical questions in SE are like, how'd you figure that out? You know, how can we test that is that method reliable? What's a good way to reach that conclusion? These are all fantastic questions in SE because the goal of SE is to get the person to think about how they arrived at their conclusion Why use SE at all? Why is that even important? Well When I get into this technique in more detail I can tell you that some of the major benefits that one this is an entirely unbiased approach It works for everybody works for any topic. It's not a tool specifically catered to atheists It's a cool It's a tool that's fair use for everybody and everyone can use it and the more people that use it the better We can get at doing this as a group As well as a culture It's always good to ask why you know something and it's always good to be able to realize when you don't know something It's nor to get the best place to start learning about new things I also think that it works well as solo one-on-one conversations or it can work well in a group I use it as a self-assessment tool all the time for my work It's it's just really really versatile and the number of people can help So it's not just one person or a group of people get yourself yourself as well But I think probably the most important part is that it avoids drama and we're gonna get into a video next I hope the audio is good but the the avoiding drama is like one of the most crucial aspects of this because it keeps the conversations productive and it keeps the Conversations positive and I think we all are aware of like some of the tones of the conversations that we have with You know particularly people believe I know I do I know I've been Subject to a number of arguments losing and winning and but either way I don't really feel like I win even at the end of the conversation because both people are so heated afterwards So I want to show an example of a bunch of What it looks like when people how are normally communicating with each other without utilizing SE as an approach to get there I'd be a lot freer of people like you were put in prison as retaliation for the collective crime of racism anti-semitism misogyny and homophobia God blesses me judge mental how do you deal with your life perpetrate this every day by telling people what their rights are And what they are You judge mental Christians are responsible for slavery. You know why you're getting upset about it I'm getting upset because you are stepping on the right the thousands of this is a freedom to me judge mental You are lost in a fantasy Preach the word Well, I know this I could look at that Sun I could look at the sky I could see the trees And I know there is life. So if there is life, there has to be a creator of life. No, it doesn't That's all you have to do is provide evidence Who course got listen that's the key point I can Every time but the motion know what I'm saying Yeah, I'll order you if you have to believe it if you don't know it if you don't know it then think about it Do you think God gave you a break again? How do you deal with that you breaking the law of God? How do you deal with that? How do you deal with? With this delusion of yours. There's some invisible man in the sky sitting well It's not just that so you don't believe that Jesus walked the earth. No Yes, that's exactly what I mean mock your religion into extinction. That's exactly what should be It's already happening. It's already happening. It's not a fairy tale because I'm a born again Christian Born again baptizing you fill with the holy ghost. It's God who works in me Is he right next to you are you holding his hand? Yes, I am. Oh, you need some medication my friend Who designed God you're caught in a trap now. It's a logical trap where you listen on the ignorant one I use reason and logic the Bible is no more proof than God exists Then a comic book is no more proof than Superman exists. You are sick. You're a sick person You're welcome. You judge mental What is interesting here actually so we've got people from different faiths and and that and who all believe in some kind of Heaven in different sense and but every single one of them believes in this heaven on the basis of faith and faith by definition It's believing in things without evidence and personally. I don't do that because I'm not an idiot I'm so glad you guys laugh with that It was like a lot of moments where I noticed like oh man, that was just me Three years ago like you're caught in the trap. You didn't realize that did you I got you I used reason and logic and now your trip never works. So right How's the audio in the back? Can you guys hear pretty well? Yeah, for real. Okay, great. Okay, cool. So those were examples of what? Conversations look like when you normally don't use SE hold up All right, those are conversations where when you don't use SE they tend to like evolve into like really accusational terms People not really being open-minded about change of mind. I want to show you an example That actually looks like when SE is employed. Yes, so yeah, just have this hobby where I challenge people about anything Is there a particular belief you want to chat about is there what a particular belief that you want to set about You really think it's true Christianity Yeah, all right. Anyway, yeah ties my name. I've got a five-minute timer Okay, if any two people can talk about anything is there anything that strongly motivates you anything I think it's true God. Yeah That's a heavy topic. You want to talk about that for five minutes? Sure. Yeah Yeah, I can talk about I mean I was my background is Christianity. I was raised Southern Baptist I believe in God's I that would be the thing. I'm the most certain about okay first Gotta get a sense of your confidence that God exists scale from one to ten. Uh-huh ten ten for sure Certain that's how far it is. Okay Um 95 From like zero to a hundred percent Hundred percent you don't need any more evidence. You're absolutely close on the position. You think that's absolutely true. Yeah Hundred percent what got you to that hundred percent? Really well, uh, so I go to a Christian school and I've learned I've taken a bunch of classes on Theories and all these different things and it just makes sense to me it kind of like hits home. I In for me, it's just a meditation thing that I realized that it's just it's just a full-on Total goodness of the earth. Mm-hmm all the plant. I believe that there is something that is been working on my behalf In this universe whatever is here had to come from somewhere. Okay Right here somewhere without some sort of first cause. Okay. Yeah, I know it's hard to think that yeah Okay How does something making sense to you relate to the actual truth of it? So like could someone actually Be mistaken about a belief that makes sense to them. Yeah, I think they could Okay, that is a Very good point. I would say So you oh, that's it. That's an interesting perspective. So you believe that wow I've never ever heard that before. Well, that's an interesting You know, we've come around to an interesting point that oh, I never verbalized to myself before but I do See that, you know, I'm starting to see just from this discussion And the benefit That's good That's a good I would like I would like to believe it if it's true, right But but because nobody can question it nobody can prove it. You can't prove faith. You can't prove any of these things. It's like Why am I believing this? Hmm You may be onto something man. Yeah, so that's powerful stuff, man. Thanks. Yeah, it's just stuff to think about. Yeah Absolutely. Thank you for that. That's really enlightening. I never thought about like that. That's true, right? That's a good way to look at it. I like to think about it that way and that anything that puts you in a more reason to position Yeah, all right Isn't there a huge difference there you guys see it No one left angry and people were open-minded people are willing to change their perspective a little bit Are you coming here? Okay, again, can we get like a quick little clap for Carl? Thank you for setting that up. I appreciate that But anyway, what if I told you in a five-minute conversation you can actually go from a person who's a hundred percent confident They're gots true a hundred percent confident that all lost anybody replaced with the ten Commandants to in a five-minute conversation You have some good points. Maybe I'm not as confident in my God claim anymore I don't know what would be. I don't think the ten Commandants is the best idea anymore I'm gonna have to think about that and then you can end the conversation on a positive note and how allow them to naturally come on Their own machinations to change their own line for more reasonable conclusions and better methods Let's talk about how that works Okay, so the way how I think about it and this isn't the only diagram and it's subject to change We'll evolve as we go but There's typically the person that you're talking to and they have a conclusion and between the person the conclusion There's a through line that I call the method It's the reasoning that they're using to reach their conclusion In reality the my mind the way how I see this Relationship is a lot more like this and that's because people tend to personally invest a lot into themselves as well as their conclusions You'll hear that when they say I'm a Christian. I'm a Baptist. I'm an atheist I'm a Vols fan art go yellow jackets anyway, so The the the thing is when you try to address questions Towards the conclusion particularly as an atheist to a fias It doesn't work out as well because as far as the fias is concerned or the person who holds that conclusions concerned They're one in the same and they'll treat that as a personal attack on them They'll think he's he's talking about my faith He's talking about me and you'll get responses that are very similar to as if you have just called them or and question them What's better is to question the method and what Essie's best geared towards is asking questions about the method because there's a lot less ego Invested there and by attacking the method or by challenging the method by targeting the method with your questioning You can allow the person to avoid like these crack falls of where they invested their personal ego into and allow them to have an open thoughtful conversation about how they reach their conclusions One of two things will happens with in Essie one They'll either replace the method that they have with a better method and as a fias I think we should be absolutely open to that we should be looking for better methods to believe what we believe So that's a great improvement Otherwise the other alternative is that they can't find a method to get to their conclusion And as a result, you know They can't get to the conclusion anymore and they end up being a person that's still open for finding better methods For better conclusions or more reliable conclusions with better methods And that's the basis of how Essie works the way how we can do this and I'll show I'll break this down With Tim who you saw in the video Again, we have our person we have our method and we have our conclusion The kind of questions that you ask are really important And you want to make sure that you're not targeting the person which I show in blue or the conclusion Which I'll show in red, but the method don't agree. So if you got a question for example like I Know God's real because you know, I went to sleep and I just felt like I was Touching and speaking with God in that one moment. There was a there was a real personal experience and I can't deny that You can ask a lot of questions about that But you want to make sure that you're targeting the right thing not the person not the conclusion with the method I'll show you what it looks like when you target the met the person This is an example of questions that will trigger a person make them more dogmatically closed So for example, I know God's real because my personal experiences Okay. Well your personal experience doesn't make your God real People say that all the time. Why are you any different? You're not making any sense Like up the tip of a mountain echoes stuff like that None of those questions are a great way to open up the person You want to ask questions that continue a conversation rather than shut down the conversation You want to ask questions or like an open door rather than a closed door the the the path SE to work efficiently is when you will let the interview partner do a lot of the heavy lifting Do a lot of the thinking and by asking or by making responses that cut them down or shut the conversation short There will be less open to reflecting on how they arrived at the belief And then there will be not there won't be able anymore to question the method that they use to get to their conclusion Let's look at what happens when you question the conclusion It's the same thing. I know my God's real because of my personal experiences. Well, that's not good evidence I said that before a lot of times It's a judgment and it's also an opinion that I'm throwing out on top of them The goal of SE is to peel back the layers that get to the conclusion not add more layers on them So try to keep if you have a bias, you know, like I for one I agree with the point But it's not a good way to get the audience who's the person that you're talking to to also be with you And if your goal is to try to help them think Don't try to shut them down. Here's some other things that I've been guilty of saying. Well, you know with all due respect I don't believe that we like talk about maybe something else or like I hear what you're saying, but I'm not getting there These are again judgments that the person will pick up on when you're challenging their conclusion They'll treat it as a personal attack and they won't be able to be open about thinking about the method that got them to The conclusion, that's the goal of SE. Here's another example That doesn't make any sense Echo, okay, so I think we get the point now not to talk not to attack the person not to attack the conclusion But the method what does it look like when we question the method? I know my God is real because of my personal experiences Personal experiences could is it possible to have a personal experience that might lead you to a false conclusion? It's a fair question to ask and you'd be surprised how open people are to talk about that When you're not challenging them or the conclusion is the method that they're using reliable It's not reliable That's a discussion to continue to have and it's something for them to think about how much confidence are they putting on a potentially unreliable Method There's another question. Is there a better way to reach that conclusion the personal experience another great question? You're already you're not making any insinuations. It's a fair question to ask if they say no This is absolutely the best method. That's another fair question That I mean, that's very fair topic to like bring up like okay So like what other ways have we used personal experiences to come to true conclusions? Like is that better or like in scientific world or engineering world? Can I use personal experiences instead of like math and science like come to true conclusions? You might be onto something potentially really useful. We should write a paper about this. Let's get a Nobel Prize Don't go that far But is there a better way to reach that person conclusion than a personal experience That's a great question to ask is just a nice simple way to get them to continue to think about the reasoning that they gave you and Here's another good one What a different personal experience affect your belief. Are you at that foundational level of their belief? I have you picked the right belief or the most important one to the interview partner Because if it doesn't affect their belief at all if they had a different personal experience That's not the belief or the method that you want to talk about you want to find out What's behind that so if they say no it won't affect my belief either way regardless of whatever personal experience I have I'm still gonna believe in the Scott well Then what's the real reason that you believe in the Scott because it's not personal experience It doesn't seem to have an effect at all. Let's dig deeper and that's the goal You don't want to change the mind in one simple step one quick phrase You repeat you're chipping away at the armor you're peeling back layers and what they'll be more open to do is refine a reasoning and Changed maybe the aspect of how they reached their conclusion rather than the conclusion all at once So you'll say they'll say things like well, maybe it's not personal experience I but I do know that there's a lot of science that proves my God So I know I came to my god belief because of science I think there's a lot of good evidence out there and for things like this. I Generally just like to ask clarification questions What do you mean by that? Sometimes it's good enough just to rephrase what they're saying because when people are speaking they aren't processing it But in the same way as if they were hearing it And so I've had people say I believe my God because of science and I'll respond back It sounds like you're saying that there's you you have you believe in your God because of science and they'll say no No, I know that's not what I meant at all. I meant that there's a lot of scientists that believe in my God That's completely different thing. That's a very very different claim and it's worthwhile to just rephrase and get clarification because The way how people talk sometimes they don't even hear the words that are coming out of mouth sometimes so it's also a nice way to just slow down the conversation and Get the expectation set up that your goal is really not to like judge them to understand how they came to their conclusion and Determine whether or not that method that they use to get to their conclusion is reliable Here's another one Is science a reliable way to test the supernatural? I typically like to ask people the nature of their God and as much as specific terms as possible before we begin I also use something like a confidence test. I'll ask them like so like He talked to me about this God like you said Christian But like is that a specific domination is he like all powerful all this like okay sounds pretty supernatural. Is that fair? Yeah, okay, well how the conversation will get to the science plane and I'll say things like well It's science a good way to test a supernatural. Do we have a science detector? Like do those things exist or like do we have a means of testing that? They might show me an ad on Amazon and we like yeah, there's a science detector right here. I'm like I can't buy that I Want to see it and if they like again you want to be open to whatever they're saying if they do have a way to test A supernatural of a science in the plane be open to it Research it be an open mind You want to be as open-minded as the person that you want in front of you set a good example So be aware that you know shutting down You don't want to ask questions that shut down the conversation You want to ask questions that open the conversation and ask me if science is a reliable way to supernatural fair question Because now you're just comparing different methods with each other You're staying focused on the method and again if science is not a superman away a reliable way to test a supernatural What does that leave you with the science is limited? What's the real foundation of disbelief? I'm not saying that you're wrong I'm saying there's something more important to you than science if we can both agree that Science is in a good way to test this belief, right? That's when you start to get towards the fundamental Reason so the fundamental methods fundamental methods sound like Well without faith. I couldn't believe my god without X. I couldn't be just as confident in this position I can't come here to this belief without X Whatever that X is typically its faith that's the foundational claim and Why the questions that you ask at that point once you realize that it would affect their confidence? Those questions trying to be a little bit different what you want to do is clarify again still engage with them Still think about like how they reached it, but also ask them The questions or questions about the words that they're using because just because I have a definition of what their foundation is Or like things like faith doesn't mean that we're sharing the same definitions between the two You might have the same vocabulary, but different definitions So make sure you're on the same page if they have faith as a reasoning ask them You know it's faith a reliable way to reach a true conclusion is your ex a Reliable way to reach a true conclusion can ever be wrong. Do other people utilize it and get to wrong conclusions If that's the case how reliable is it? If it's not as reliable are there other ways that we could use to try to get to those same conclusions and if not How confident are you really that you know this being exists? Or that this belief is true if we don't have a reliable way to get to that conclusion If they can if they say they don't know if they say they're thinking about that These are all fantastic responses In fact, there's a number of really good responses that you'll get but just asking simple questions that target the method some of them are like oh My gosh, I'm thinking I'm thinking that's the perfect answer. You want people to think about stuff like this That's an interesting point. I never thought about that before I had a lady say that to me It was like maybe like I Won't lie like about 40 times during the conversation. I was a little weird But it's good that they're acknowledging that the points that you're making because it shows that they're being open and It's not necessarily a defensive statement. It's I never really thought I never had a chance to think about that That's a really good point as we've seen in the video before. Well, I don't know I don't know in my opinion is Not just an out but one of or by that I mean not just a thing that people say but it's literally the best place to start learning from and when you get a person from I'm a hundred percent confident that this is true to I don't know if that I don't know. I Don't know pause thinking time to think that's that's you've done your job That's the best thing that could happen in a conversation. You also want people to think you also want to give time for people to think so if they are pausing Just give them the time to do so You want to just have the opportunity for them to critically think about how they arrived at the method and determine if that methodology that they're using is Reliable, I want to show an example in It's full, you know form Let's see how we're doing time. I think we're doing pretty good This guy's name was Tim wonderful guy one of my first talks so it's also one of my longer talks to but His position was that he believes in the God based on personal experiences That's where we started off from and I think we had a really positive talk by the end What's something I want to note from the beginning to the end of the conversation is his concept of I don't know when he first says I don't know not really like listen I'm 90% confident that God exists, but I don't know You know I'm as high as I possibly can be without signing crazy And then at the end of the conversation much more open to it. That's one thing I want to point out There's some other notes at the bottom of the Video and those will be like some of the comments that go out of my head as we have our conversation anyway I'll get straight to it. I Think it's easier to believe in God. There's not to believe in God I think not believing God God is harder because there's just so much. Sorry. I thought she was wearing a panda suit outfit Would you mind if I recorded it? No, you can go ahead and do that. I'm Ty. I'm Tim. Nice to meet you, brother So yeah, like I said, just have a belief where Any two people can have a conversation for five minutes. Is there anything that you strongly believe is true something that motivates you something? You're certain about Something I'm certain about yeah the more Absolute or the more confident you are the better I don't know I guess I Believe in God, so that would be the thing. I'm the most certain about okay. Keep it open. You want to talk about God Talk about God. That's a heavy topic It's one of the things you don't bring up that in politics So yeah, one of the big things that I do with this project is just trying to it's a hobby that I got to show That you can really talk about anything and I'm just here to have like a positive conversation Argument or anything like that. All right, you mind if we talked about that normally Whatever the topic is I just generally kind of like challenge what if you said you like potato chips I would have been like so I've you tried pretzels like it's that Yeah, yeah, I understand would you mind if I had that kind of kind of heart? Oh, yeah, yeah, it's totally fine the big G. O. D. Yeah, start on the timer. Okay, so what made you so calm or how confident are you that God exists and what God are we talking about? That's excellent question The guy I'm talking about is the Christian God, okay so I believe in Jesus and he's the son of God isn't any kind of particular sect Christianity Baptist I was I was raised Southern Baptist, but I I don't necessarily I Don't think you have to be Southern Baptist or anything like that. I believe you just need to Believe in God, okay, and follow his word, okay So how confident are you that this God exists I would say From like a scale of zero to 100 all doubt all doubt hundred percent zero questions This is awful. Yeah, I'd say 90% 90% because you know, I'm I feel like I'm a very Realistic person, you know, you gotta have there's doubts and everything. I'm never 100% on anything So I love that attitude because there has to be doubts, you know Because I haven't personally met him and you know sit down and had a conversation with him So if you did meet him and sit down and have a conversation with him Would that take you to a higher confidence? Would you say like if you could like I think it make me to like 95% Okay, it's like, you know, there's always the you know There's always good questions because I always like to see the other person's side of You know side of things side of the argument. Okay, it's like You know who made him where'd he come from? Yeah, these are big questions. Yeah, it is. This is really deep. I'm enjoying this right right So let me ask you a question 90% that's still pretty high up there. That's pretty high Yeah, what got you to that high? What got me there is just my personal Experiences and plus, you know, of course, I mean, I think 50% of it was just me growing up in that situation that environment Sure, the other part is just like I said, it's my personal experiences things that I've That I've been involved in and stuff that may meet that have got me there and you know That's why I'm 90% I'm fairly confident Do you think if you had a different set of personal experiences you would arrive at a different God? Well, yeah, yeah, I mean if I was you know, I would group in India Yeah, if I was that believe there yeah, this new right, right, right. Yeah, would that mean that you would believe? Would you be tell me about how you're 90% confident that this new exists at this moment? Well, I probably I wouldn't say 90% but I'd probably be at least 50 or 60 or 70 You'd be pretty yeah, I think I think I think I think Where you are you're brought up at does have a major role in what you believe. Okay. Now that being said I'm not I'm not 100% sure that You know, there's not just one God and different people calling different names. I see what you're saying. Okay now I think there's some crazy stuff out there Wiccans and stuff like that people I don't know about that. Okay, so I could see going. I'm sorry I know I Feel free to continue to talk but I was saying I'm kind of interested in the methodology that you're used to come to One God over other gods. It seems like you do have Some bias towards certain proposed gods and then are cool with others because you're right. It's just a different problem Yeah, right, right What what's the distinction or what's you are you using to grade? Well, that's a real God But people are just calling a different name. That's just nonsense. That's an excellent question now I'm gonna say something and I Could be a hundred percent wrong which I've been wrong before so no If you if you read the Bible It I feel like it describes What's happened since the beginning of time, okay now is it a hundred percent literal? No I don't believe that but like because there's some people that think that the earth is five thousand years old Yeah, but some people are gracious to give it six thousand. Oh, yeah crazy, right? No But I mean I feel like if you read the Bible in in the way It's like Genesis and how everything happened. I mean it's kind of basically like how it happened You know, it's not a hundred percent like oh in seven days, you know, man was created, but you know You know the earth was created first then you had waters on the earth then God created the animals and then he created men. Okay, and that's kind of what happened Which you know that you know when someone it's that's just one part of the story But you know when you add up a bunch of little parts and it kind of describes how everything kind of all what confirmed That that was how it happened for you to say that that was the Bible conferring with that story What was what's the other thing that you're looking at? Well, I'm saying like from what I've learned from science, you know, cuz like you know first You know first the earth was made, you know, then you know Eventually the earth cooled down and there was water on the planet then after that I mean this took billions of years or millions of years and billions of years. Yeah, and then finally we had you know The basic life sure then eventually humans came around and so I think I think The you know just using certain parts of the Bible it kind of describes what happened But you know when you're trying to tell us to human. Yeah, 30,000 or you know, 30,000, but 10,000 years ago. Yeah, it could be a little muddle. Yeah. Yeah, it's gonna get muddled and you're gonna have you have to down it You know, you have to dummy it down for him. Can he's captured, you know, they're just out here in this field, you know How so can you admit you had mentioned that personal experience is what got you to the belief that a God But you don't specifically mean I guess the Christian God like if it turned out that Scientists was able to show that a different God exists. Mm-hmm. Would you be fine with that and just say hey? I I've already developed the habit of saying science discovered something and I looked in my holy book And it seems like that's what it was trying to talk to what if it wasn't your holy book They had the most accurate depiction of what science said. Yeah, and it was someone else Would you then I'll be open to that? I'd be open to that. Yeah, okay, but I Think there's enough proof in the bot in the Bible that it I mean, I think it's that one I see and also I mean heck if you I mean every religion's got its creation story And they're all basically the same and that's what makes what that's what leads me to the fact that I think we're all Talking about the same God. Okay, you know, it's just Yeah, do you think personal experience is a reliable way to come to a true conclusion? Yes, and no because you know, there's I mean you have people that are mentally sick, you know, and they could see They they could see something and And take it the wrong way, you know and and I think that happens to even people that aren't mentally sick They just they just see something and they misinterpret it. Yeah Then is it possible to have a personal experience that leads you to a conclusion in it for for that conclusion to actually not be true She said one more time. Could I have a personal experience that leads me to a conclusion? That's false. Oh Yeah, I mean people do all the time. Okay, I mean Is there anything else that's getting you to that high confidence value because it sounds like if personal experience is getting you to such a high Confidence, but you know that person's friends be right or wrong, right? But it's actually getting you to that 90% well It's like I said, it's you know kind of like what I grew up with and the other part is like what I've learned You know from like reading the Bible and then compared it to what science has taught me Would you say that's more important than your upbringing because if you I think you told me if you had been brought by you know Indian right, right, right a different guy, right would you say you're learning of the holy book that you have and your Understanding of science those two things coming together. Yeah No, I mean, I think that's a good point. Yeah, I mean You know what now I'm thinking about more. Yeah. Yeah, I'd say it's probably 35% of what I was brought up in 35% is what I've read That's about 70% and I'd say another 20% would probably be my personal experiences. Okay. It's the accumulation of them, too I'm 34 years old. I mean, I got one for the grade You know I'm 32 I'm not even gone there. I don't want to think about it like that. Yeah, you're still young sprightly We got a best friend that years ahead of us. You're right. I'm wondering um, so Do you think that science is a more reliable way to come to conclusions? Or is this method where you have 35% on personal experience 35% and upbringing 20% on Whatever else is that more reliable than science? I I think just using science straight out Yeah, I think I Personally believe in anything that you do you can't have all your eggs on the basket Okay, so to speak you need to get all your resources and make an informed decision You can't just base everything off of one thing. You can't base everything just off your personal experiences. Okay, you know, you can't base all your You can't base something off just your past, you know, you're like you're upbringing you have to like Reach out reach out and reach out. That's doesn't sound right But now you have to like take everything for account and that's why I try to do it just in everything What would it take for you to see that you were wrong? Would you be able to recognize what that looks like? Yeah, I think I would but I think I think just like any person it would take longer than it should what would it look like What would it look like if you're wrong and this guy did not exist. What would that look like? It would look like My first thought and this is gonna be funny Have you ever seen? Oh What's that movie called? I can't remember what it's called, but anyway, basically God, what is it called? It's the alien movie. Oh, I love alien movies. All right independence day No, no, no, it's actually Prometheus. Yes, it's like, you know, the plant was seeded by aliens. That's not even the best alien movie But that's that's my thought probably that's why I was thinking so like things bursting out of people's chest Like like if aliens came down and they're like, oh, yeah, we're just coming back check on y'all We we see this plant like four billion years or a billion years ago We're checking up on you seeing how everything's going. I'm like, well shit, you know that I mean that that's our God You know, they're the ones who made us so that that would that that's what would take for me to like totally You know like oh, I was totally wrong now. Okay That's not exactly the question you're you're asking I guess not really but I I think it is good to at least start with that as a watermark and maybe like see is there anything Extreme be like. Oh, no, that was the thing that would take for me to be at least not necessarily change your position Because I'm not here to change position. I'm just I'm just really we're just trying to reflect But what would knock you down a couple of percent on that confidence? So that maybe even you if you still have the same confidence, maybe you're like 85% Well, I'll tell you what I used to be higher in my confidence level and I'll tell you what brought me back some is just You know, I probably used to be like a 95% or maybe but just looking at how like Talking about that my Bible. Yeah There's literally like a hundred different versions of it. Yes, and even around right now Yes, and like it each each version you can read it interpret it differently. Sure. There's for instance, I don't know if you've But yeah, no, I know you're familiar with the mark of the beast, right? And well, so if you read in the old in the new in the old King or in the King James version of the Bible Yeah, it says that it is in It is in your your hand or in your forehead Mm-hmm, and the other version like the new King James version, which is the one I like the butt met the boat the most Okay, and But it says it's on so now, you know a hundred years ago 50 years ago It'd make more sense if it was on it, right? Right, right, but the original saying was it was in but really now It makes more sense if it was in but truly Not to get into semantics here, but that's like transcribed from ancient Hebrew who knew what they were right, right? Right, yeah, and that's kind of like where it's starting It's kind of lost me a little bit because like you're right Hebrew and like Adam for instance like Adam. Yeah, the original language that meant men. It didn't mean Adam, yeah, oh you're Adam. Yeah, it really meant. Yeah So, I mean it's like things like that and then wouldn't you want to use a reliable method to like determine whether or not that was true or not true Right. Yeah, so it's like basing this off of methods that Can be demonstrably wrong or maybe wrong or right and maybe it takes an alien invasion Right, right, right. I realize that you're wrong. Does that get you to a point where you're Justify yourself at a 90% confidence level say again, so like If you're a 90% confident it'd be cool if you had like a 90% correct all the time method, right, but it doesn't sound like That is the methods that presented doesn't sound like they were that confident because I think we both agree that you know I bring you believe whatever you brought up your personal experience that could be right That could be wrong who knows maybe takes an alien invasion right right, but who knows right right wrong But science did say yes is really reliable But it doesn't really have a comment on whether a God exists or doesn't exist I don't think there's a science detector that's right right right correct on Amazon that we divide not yet Not yet. Not yet. Which would be nice, right? Which would be nice to definitely raise our confidence But tell them we don't have that so science isn't saying anything personal experiences unjustified Right upbringings like well, you just believe it or you want what's getting to that 90% well Like I said, it's the combination of everything really if I took spoiled milk rotten You know fruits and like yeah wet sugar and mix it up in a milkshake or get a perfect milkshake Like I think what you put into the belief is what you're getting out, right? So like if you have really unreliable methods and you're putting them together, how do you get a reliable conclusion? It's like the That's an excellent question. It's it's you know the sum is greater than its parts, you know It's but what you put into it is what you get out like if I put four flat tires in my car Will I be able to drive to work tomorrow? You could get further than what you without But it's important to us true things right when we want to have those four good tires or at least inspect the tires ahead of time Right, what are you using to inspect the belief that gets you to that 90% confidence? Oh, it's just you know just daily things that happen. I mean when I find when we learn something new Scientifically speaking, you know If it jives with what I believe if it or if it doesn't and I have to take that account and then you know if I if they come out with something says that I Don't know it just makes it more unlikely that there's a guide. Yeah, it'll bring me down something really. Yeah, okay I'm I'm open. I'm I'm pretty open You know, I don't know I don't know if science can ever get to the point And then this is just me pontificating on my point right right feel free to challenge me on anything No, I don't think science can ever get to the point where it says a god does not exist, right definitively, right? I think because of that The question them remains like What did convince you that a god exists like are people better off believing? Until they're proven wrong or should they start believing when they have enough evidence to believe that's the case That is a very good point I Would say I think it depends on what you're talking about Specifically, let's talk about my god specific like my god. Okay. I think it's I think it's best to believe First and then you can always I don't know. That's a good question. I think it's best to believe first and then just continuously Think about it, you know Just it's just like anything else that you're gonna think about or you're gonna believe in You know, you always have to continuously think about it. You know, is this you know, is this is there something better out there? Am I thinking about this the wrong way? It is could I be wrong, you know, you just always have to analyze it and just determine if that's do you think that's better than Withholding belief until you have a good evidence You think your method of I'll believe it until I'm proven wrong is better With regard to your god is better than I'm just gonna withhold belief until I have a good reason to believe what you know Save myself from believing in something that may not actually exist. Well, you know Now that I'm thinking about it I think that's how everyone is actually when just originally like you don't come out of the room Thank believing in God true. So you were convinced down the road Yeah, you're convinced eventually down the road. Yeah, and now I'm thinking about that. Yeah, so I mean so what convinced you I think it's just being around, you know, the people I was raised around Yeah, I brought up around if they convinced me and you know, they just convinced me of it If you were I've gotten older you always question it Everything do you think if you're brought up by people who didn't believe in God you would not believe in a God right now? I don't know. I don't know honestly because there's would be any different from being raised by Indians who believed in this Do you thinking this news the actual God? No, I think I think if I was if I was brought up by Hindus That the chances of you being Hindu would be probably. Oh, yeah, I think you're brought up by non-believers I think now see that's the thing like I think I think it's easier to believe in God there's not to believe in God I think not believing God God is harder because there's just so much sorry I thought she was wearing a panda suit outfit Break contact. You're getting really deep. I'm loving this conversation. That's all good. I was like something's So you were saying you it's easier to believe in God than not believe God right why do you think that? well, I think it's just the human nature that I mean I hate to say it but the world's a scary place, you know and You always want to have that belief that someone is always watching out for you. You always want that blanket that security blanket, and I think Does that feeling make the belief true? I'd say so. I mean to a certain extent. So I mean even Like to a certain extent like it now would it be 90% true? No, but would it be? 30% true. I mean just imagine like when you're a little kid. You're scared of dark. Yeah I mean, how did you ever come that? I thought it was like a monster in the dark or something. Oh, yeah You had to come up with something. Yeah to protect you from it superman to there to protect me. Yeah, right? I go to you can't beat superman. No superman's unbeatable, right? All right, not the superhero movie version of Superman I mean like the original comic book faster than a speed. Oh, yeah I look emotive right people versus building a second classic classic I'm thinking though like if I had a coin, right and I flip the coin catch it and it's not your coin But it's like it's either heads or tails. I caught it 50-50. I don't know if it's heads or tails You know if it's heads or tails, right this coin, you know, all right, so someone comes to the table and says I'm very scared. I'd be very scared if that's tail that coin was right, right? So therefore it must be tails right because it would terrify me the other way right It's my human nature to believe that it's heads right does that make this head? He might be right, but like is that even a reliable way to come to this is it reliable? No, but I think that's I mean if you I Think if you believe if you How's it? You know, it's it's kind of like the cat. Yeah, it's a lot. Oh sure denger's. Yeah sure nurse cat Yeah, yeah, it's alive even though you don't know but it makes it you know true to a certain extent I don't know if that makes sense. Oh, you know like they're like like the coin. I mean, yeah, the coin Yeah, it's yeah, it's heads it could be and when the thing is we could never show it and just tell people it's heads Yeah, and I bet you $100 we could get more than 50% of people to agree with us Yeah, but does that agreement make it true? Like does the populace agreeing on the one thing because of their human nature make the coin actually be heads? Absolutely? No, but But I don't know Is there anyone agrees on something? I mean is it true? I don't know okay, you know, that's uh, yeah Deep question. Yeah, I I Just one last question that yeah, yeah, you know Is there anything more question that's more important to you than whether or not this God exists and I guess it's my follow-up last question, sorry But if this is the fact the most important question to you shouldn't you have the most reliable way of coming to that conclusion And why settle for anything less? All right, I Yeah, you have to have the most reliable way to figure it out But what's the most reliable way to know something that big, you know, yeah when you don't know the answer like I said I flip that coin to catch it. It's on the back of my hand. I don't have enough information to come to a conclusion There's a chance that I don't know like as you said and I said isn't just an out or an option But is actually the best answer until we have enough conclusive evidence. I Don't know. Yeah It's a really uncomfortable Answer no, no, it's actually a really not it's a good question. Yeah, it's a really good question Would I don't know be a better answer with the guard to the existence of this God then I believe it But I'm waiting to be until I'm proven wrong by science Right isn't capable of proving it wrong in the first place. Yeah, now that it's a good question now For instance on the coin. Yeah, that's the best answer, but then you like with God Yeah, and God's I mean with any religion. Yeah, I mean, I don't know Isn't necessarily that The best it's not that you can't give the answer Well, because in these religions that you you have to be like, yeah, I believe in it You know, that's part of it. You have to believe in them. Why do you have to that's just part of the Thing That's part of the kool-aid brother No, it's all right, it's just how it's you know You have to believe in them and follow their teachings if you know What does that say about the religion that won't allow you to have a position where you're just like oh well If I have to get in if I have to buy the whole yeah, you gotta drink the kool-aid No, yeah, yeah before I can even like inspect anything right was that say does that say something more about the religion than it does about the Actual conclusion the reaching like let's say there is let's say without a doubt 100% There is a God this guy does it but in order for you to pick the right one You have to go wholesale into a specific religion, right? And you don't you can't question the tenants you can't question the how they Well, that's part of reason only 90% because like there's like you got some like some like pinnacostals believe that you gotta be pinnacostal Mormons believe there's only 127,000 they're gonna have in which I'm just like Latter-day Saints Yeah, something. Yeah, seventh day happens can't work on Sunday, etc. They all have their own little thing No, I like that not working on Sunday. They'd be sweet sure in the house chilling. I think their day is Saturday, but But even if you're going outside of Abrahamic religions like you're going Yeah, you know the back of Abita and you're reading about Vishnu and Shiva and their relations with each other You have to believe that there's castes and or Yeah, I don't know how they do that. Yeah, so like it's not necessarily a you know teach his own because some people have very different owns but because of that Because there's so many people who are very confident those true and I bet you I can probably find a 90% confident Hindu Oh, yeah, I'm confident. Oh, yeah Can they all be right? Well, that's what I was saying earlier. I think that I Could see that I could I could see that you know, we're all Well, we all believe in the same God. He's just called different things There are which but there are some gods who are fundamentally different than the Abrahamic God, right? Or people who use faith or for example to believe that there's no God like claim absolutely a hundred percent no God exists And those people I put in the same boats and the people who say a hundred percent a God does exist at least from my perspective, right? Can a person who believes a hundred percent that a God doesn't exist and a person who believes a God does exist both to the same? Absolute certainty both be correct Said one more time. So I got two people people who a person who believes in God and a person who believes there is no God Can they both be correct at the same time? I don't think so. No, right? So if they're using so I question would be then like what method are they using to come to their conclusion, right? And is it reliable or is it not right? So let's talk about the person doesn't believe in God at all. Okay. Yeah, so I mean they're probably gonna use, you know Things that have happened to them in their life. Sure. Yeah, they'll probably say the way they brought up, you know personal experiences Personal experiences and then on top of that they're gonna look at science. Yeah, and yeah, yeah, right? And so because some people look at science and they're just like I Don't know. They're just like, oh, well we just come we're just particles Yeah, that person's using the exact same methods that you're using right and coming to the exact opposite conclusion Right, and you guys can't both be correct, right, so what can what can I as the guy in the middle? Right. Yeah, you're just trying to learn. Yeah, I'm just trying to learn like how do I figure out which of you guys is right? What should I be paying attention to right and see I just see me personally? I look at science is what like that's how God does this thing, you know like So, okay, I don't know if you bake it or not. I love baking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love eating baking So oh you said bacon or baking. Oh baking like baking. I'm sorry like baking. Yeah, I love cooking. Yeah, totally into it So like, okay So I imagine it as if like like science is like the ingredients, you know, like, you know, it's the cooking part. Sure, and And Holy crap my wallet Dude, that's my wallet. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you very much. So I was saying or what I was thinking is that We're just the people in the in the shop when everything is said and done, okay right now We're just looking at the pastries. We don't know exactly we know how the what we know what's in the cupcake, you know, so Doesn't make sense at all. So God's the baker. He's he's using the ingredients to put us together He's made he's made, you know, he made like the elements sure and he's Put all this stuff together. Yeah, and I foresee I see him as like, you know, like a Watchmaker or something like that and in regards to like the universe You know, like the earth revolves around the sun so many times Are you saying like the complexity of the universe is an indication to you that it was intelligently designed? Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah to a certain extent because like Because if you for instance like if you have a watchmaker or a clockmaker, you know, they're very intricate pieces of work and They can make a watch a watch or a clock and wind it up and they're gonna tell you okay in so many days This watch is gonna stop. Sure. Okay. Now if me and you look at this watch and try to make a watch like this We couldn't do it, but we can have an idea of how it works, but we couldn't do that So and I that's how I see like the clump complexity of the universe is he's you know, he's the same thing as a watchmaker He's just I'm much higher scale than we are. Can I throw something at it? Yeah If I had a light bulb that took a thousand step I designed a light bulb that takes a thousand steps to screw into a hole Right versus a light bulb that takes one Step to screw into a hole, right which light bulbs better designed Well, I mean if you're just looking at that one aspect does the exact same thing both light bulbs do the exact same I would say the one that takes one screw But wouldn't you say them at simplicity is actually the hallmark of design rather than complexity? Why would you look at something? That's very complex and say that had to have been better designed than something That's far more. Well, well, it just depends on the application You're you're putting you're looking at it and like for instance like the light bulb that only takes one screw Do you have little kids around? I mean or do you have someone who it could reach up there and unscrew it? Yeah, and who doesn't need unscrew it. Yeah, where you know the thousand screws I mean if you have someone who could potentially unscrew it and you need that light bulb to be in there What is what a simple self of what a simple fail safe to protect kids from light bulbs be better than a very Complicated or really convoluted highly complex fail safe Yes, it wouldn't that regards, but Wonder so I was just saying I think we got to the thumb the the foundation of the belief really is that Your god exists. I was just kind of like I was really interested in the complexity argument because From my perspective, it seems like people value simplicity and things we like smaller phones We like things that take up less energy. We like clothes that are made from simple fabrics You're right. Right. Complexity has never been a thing that we looked at and said, yeah That's proof of something really amazing with complex is always been something we try to stay away from right So when we look at the complexity of the world, it's really surprising that we always point to Existence of a god or proof of that right well two things first of all you're right people do like this more simple things Yeah, but you know like I saw our design you have a watch on that sure do That's pretty complex watch. It's a very complex watch, but I would love for it to be simpler. Really? Yeah Why would I want to be any more complicated? It's hard enough for me to just check the weather on this thing I got to take four taps if I could just do in a simple way. I'd be great I actually used to sell watches really higher-end watches and The more complicated watches the more expensive this and the more people want it and so that's why it was using the watch Watch thing, but also I was gonna say back to come the the complexity of it all is that It's it's I would say it's simply come complex because like yeah, everything's complex, but it's kind of Done in such way. It's just you do it one time. It's set and it's just like a clock It's just for the life of better words. It's like a clock I'll just keep running and running and running Do you think that observations are really good way for you to come to a hundred percent or 90% confidence that your god Exists do you think anyone else can point to the same thing and say that their god exists or point to the same? Oh, yeah, this is proof that yeah, and that's why I'm at 90% because like We you know for instance like we can both look here at this tree back here You can see the leaves blowing or shaking on it. I'll you know, I could say it's the wind someone could be like Oh, it's just the tree movement. You know, it's you know, we could come to we're human It's human nature to come to two people can come to two totally different I Opinions about something sure but I looking at the same Same set of data the same thing if because if we live in a world like that Do you think anyone's justified or at least better or in a good situation by just saying I don't know which of you guys are correct? I'll wait until there's enough evidence for me to convince me that one of you is correct and until them in positions Just I don't know and I'll wait until I don't think I don't think that's a bad I don't think that's a bad position to be in I think it's I think it's relatively smart and honestly with 90% sure. I mean that's still kind of saying I don't know Really, isn't it? I don't know. I think 90% is pretty high. I gotta be honest. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's one I would say like 50% is the I don't know. Yeah, I would say I would say 50% is the I don't know Well, yeah, but I say 90% is I do know I think it's different variations if I don't know I don't know but I'm pretty sure it's this. Oh, okay Okay, okay, okay, that sounds not putting words in your mouth, but that That doesn't sound as strong as 90% Yeah, that sounds maybe like 70s 80. I don't care about numbers. See we can't agree on what yeah. Yeah, that's how it is I don't care about numbers See that's why I think like a hundred percent is a hundred percent. I'm never changing never changing I don't need any more information for us my life. All right, but 90% you are keeping the doors open just a little bit Oh, yeah, yeah, the door is always open. Okay, Tim Would you mind if I just do the quick summary before sure? Yeah, no problem So it sounded like you're 90% confident that the God exists You're basing off a personal experience in the way how you're brought up But we came to the conclusion that maybe that's not the most foolproof method right to come into a right But you are open and that you even mentioned some things that would actually change your mind I thought that was pretty awesome You some of the proofs that you also demonstrated was like the complexity of the world and like the watchmaker argument There's proofs that your God exists, but it seems it seems like There's ways that you can value simplicity over complexity at least with regard to certain things It'd be cool if we could Think about this maybe a little bit more and if I ever see you again, this would be a wonderful conversation Yeah, sounds good brother. Tim wonderful Hey, nice meeting you man. Thank you, man. I'm Tyce. Nice to meet you. Yeah, I was saying about that entire time I was like what you think of the conversation was it cool? Yeah, I think it was Conversations like this or politics. You have to have a beard. Yeah No, it's just a personal hobby. Yeah, I really believe that even people with like really strong different beliefs or whatever There's a way to have the conversation I travel a lot. Yeah, I just got back to Europe. Okay, we're in Europe because I spent like a year and a half there. No way really, Sweden What do you guys think about that? Cherry picked no so on my YouTube channel and guys should all have my card by now every week I upload a brand new video and they all have the same tone This is just one of my earlier ones and I wanted to share that with you But the the main thing that we got out of that is that street epistemology is not an uncomfortable experience It's not an interview. It's not an interrogation. It's a conversation that you're having with people and I really think by the end of that conversation Tim and I became like really good friends like The video didn't capture it and I kind of edit it out But like after the talk was over he came back to the table and we ended up talking about like movies and Like places that we've been to and just having a really good talk for like about another hour So almost almost done with the talk. It's actually if possible. Could we have questions immediately afterwards? If if you guys have time, can I show one last video? I promise it's much shorter This is the cool guy or this is the guy who believed that all law should be replaced with the tank mammots It's all law should be replaced with the tank mammots young guy, too. I was really surprised I think it's a really really cool watch just to see What happens when talking about the methodology doesn't necessarily work all the time when I asked about methodology He switched into preacher mode and you'll get stopped by that sometimes so a street epistemology is not one thing We're still trying to figure out interesting and novel and effective ways to keep a productive conversation but to keep people to consider and reconsider their positions on whether or not They're actually reliable. So this is what it looks like when asking about the methodology doesn't work I think it's a cool watch only 10 minutes and Nice one. What do you think I? Think so. Yeah, you think it's possible just those 10 rules to have world peace. I think so. Can we talk about that? Yeah, okay. Okay. How confident are you that that's the case? From like zero to 100% 100% you don't need any more evidence Record all right great five minutes You want to talk about religion? It's that All right, I'm Thai by the way, I'm rusty rusty good to meet you good to meet you too, man All right, so you probably got a lot of questions for me Which religion are we talking about them? so my question is is Is a blend of Christianity and Jewish is it possible? I if you were to ask me particularly I think they're both Abrahamic religions thereby But I think what's what's the definitive point of Christianity the belief in Jesus Christ? Let's say so. Yeah, right if you don't have that you're not Christian that would you say that's accurate? Yeah, Christian be a follower of Christ a Christian would be a follower of Christ. Yeah, yeah, so I think up to a point blend you can still have Moses You can probably still have everything in the Old Testament, but to be a Christian you would have to have that extra thing What do you think? Yeah, so yeah, yeah, I would agree. So my my question is is why do Some Christians not keep some Jewish beliefs. Does that make sense? Why do some Christians like you? I don't know talk to me. I know about the covenant. I know some about like Circumcision yeah, that let's see, but I'm interested in your perspective man I Would say the big question is is it does a Christian keep the 10 commandments, which is Old Testament Jewish Oh, that's interesting. You mentioned the covenant. Yes, that would be a major thing So what is your opinion should a Christian keep the 10 commandments or not? I don't know. I don't know. I can't be honest with you. I can't name all the 10 commandments off the top My head right now I don't think there was anything in there was particularly volatile So if they kept all those commandments, I don't think society would be Any worse for the where I don't think there was anything particularly bad in there. You want to if is that sound reasonable? Yeah, I think well, here's a better question. Okay, what could there be peace on earth if Everyone kept 10 commandments. That's not good enough in my opinion Okay, so why not I think there's probably some more complex International dynamics at play that are not expressed to the explicit nature. That's necessary in just the 10 commandments alone We're probably have like trade agreements going on We'll have land disputes that are probably going on ongoing even up to now because we still currently have them right now Even with the 10 commandments You know, there's things about taxes military use, you know personal rights Things change every day and I think just 10 rules is not good enough to encapsulate all the problems that I can probably foresee Hmm What do you think I? Think so. Yeah, you think it's possible just those 10 rules to have world peace. I think so. Can we talk about that? Yeah, okay. Okay. How confident are you that that's the case? From like zero to 100% 100% you don't need any more evidence. You're absolutely close on the position. You think that's absolutely true Okay, 100% what got you to that 100% Really well You're you were getting on specifics really but if you work to category categorize everything into those then Could how could you not? I Guess I'm asking you like what's the method that you're using to come to a hundred percent confidence That you only need those 10 rules To explain all dynamics of law. All right, so dynamics would be Specifically the first four and the last six Okay, the first four would deal specifically with love for God. Okay, which would be don't worship idols Specifically Christian God. Yeah, right the tinker man. It's so No idols don't put any other gods before me Don't take the name of the Lord God in vain and the Sabbath day And then the last six would be specifically love for your fellow man, which is honor your father and mother Don't commit adultery don't murder don't steal and don't covet So most of the things that you mentioned would fall under the category of coveting. Okay, so what do you think? What do you think of like? gun control or like topics of such as like I Have I right now there's like a board of Things that are allowed to bring on to this park area and we're not supposed to have Stuff pass that line I'm wondering like that's probably just like a city regulation law. They probably don't want to be insurance liability pass a certain point Like there are some like really really really specific Granular things. Do you think the Ten Commandments gives like an interpretation that everyone could easily get to? Consider that or should we just have a specific loop a lot that says by the way, don't bring a bike pass here We don't have a lot. Oh, we don't have insurance coverage past this point. Oh, we don't want to be sued This stuff takes a lot of money to keep maintained. So you're you're you're talking on terms of like local Yeah Statute yeah, and I'm talking on terms of more of the Constitution. Oh, okay, but I'm thinking that granularity helps your peace Yeah, would you agree? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That's what I'm coming from I'm talking about as a whole So you would still want the granular I see what you're saying so you're saying big picture have these ten commandments Just it's cold. Isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, so I'm shivering. No, I am too. I am too And we're almost at five. It's you're saying big picture The theme of the Ten Commandments is pretty good because a lot of things fall within those things But the granularity is still necessary for like the day-to-day and I think the day-to-day is a really big component for like maintaining peace Yeah, so when you're really talking about the Ten Commandments, you're actually talking about the matters of the heart Don't steal don't commit adultery Don't murder. So it's actually when you could you mention something about going control? Yeah So that's another question. Would it be necessary to have gun control if you kept it? Because really think about the abuse of a gun. Hmm. Why is that gun being used? Oh? I meant, what's the motive? I didn't mean so much in gum being abused. I meant more like If I have a gun and I want to give it to my nephew There are means that I do that as a law abiding gun owner And if I want to buy a gun there are ways that I can do that as a law abiding gun owner And if I want to auction a gun there's a matter for me to do it and they're not all the same They're all very different and I think it's good to know that there's a granularity of rules there Because it makes it easier to track it makes it easier to maintain your guns that you have and just makes it easier to track in case Someone takes my gun. Oh, uh, my batteries But yeah, I just think the granularity of there is is useful That's what I meant. I didn't mean like buy a gun and start shooting people. Everyone always goes to that I'm like, no, no, no, there are really good people who own guns But like as gun control is concerned there is a body that's Maintains that there's like a record keeping body organization that maintains it There's like a lobbying force that manages like the representation of people who do own guns and don't want over legislation by government bodies I think these are all useful aspects that may not necessarily be explicitly carried over by uh gun control in general Like do you think do you think if we just have the 10 commandments we wouldn't need more rules to explain things As far as uh, some of the like the local statutes and stuff like, uh, you know speeding on the highway stuff You're not gonna get that. No, you're not but as far as matters of the heart Would you speed if you kept the ticket? I hear what you're saying. I hear a law about abiding citizens Yeah, yeah, and I think then if we had a god that said by the way I also want you to drive me 60 miles an hour on i-75. I'd be like, well, I'm a law Or I'm a god abiding person So 65 it is maybe a little 76 I don't know, me too Power up cool rusty. Let me just ask you one follow-up then in the sense of 10 commandments to explain all laws Every law are you still at a hundred percent? Would you be a hundred percent on that? Specifically a constitution. Yeah, not just constitution but local precinct Gun control everything. Would you still be at a hundred percent? And if you are that's fine I don't know that I can answer that. I think that's a better answer Than absolute certainty Rusty, I really appreciate the talk Thanks, man. Now it's too cold. I want you to warm up What did we learn from all this? So, um, I think straight epistemology is a really incredible tool to have good conversations with people Who may not necessarily agree with you or who do agree with you But for at least both of you guys have a fair and unbiased approach to assess how you reach your conclusions And whether or not the methods that you're using reach your conclusions are reliable or not Um, it can be done with one people or one person to be done on groups of people And it's a really fantastic way to avoid closing down people Into the methodologies or their dog met and not being willing to open up and consider how they reached their conclusions There's a quote on that I read that I can't really remember from facebook that basically says One of the things we can't talk about or like the whole things we can't talk about is like Money politics or religion But it's not because that those subjects are taboo It's just because we don't have an effective way to have those kinds of conversations And no one really knows how to have that and the only reason why I disagree with that comment now Is because I think that we do have a method to have those kinds of conversations I think street epistemology can empower all of us to have a really good way To get through to people who have these walls. They're set up between them And to break down that wall and actually have effective communications with people about anything Okay, um, so again, my name is tyron walls I believe or i'm working on a way that I can talk to anyone about anything and I think you guys can too I think we all can Thank you