 Hello everybody, if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer weekly Joining me as always my co-hostess with the mostest. It's Tyler. What's up, buddy? How you doing? Those are the most of this week not a loser this week Look, it goes week to week buddy things and random ones I am Yes for tonight because of this guest that we have we've been wanting to get on the show for some time Absolutely, let's talk about that joining us Matt the news As he's come to be popularly known, that's right Beasts player extraordinaire joining us tonight to talk about beast of chaos Matt. How you doing, buddy? Hey, I'm doing good guys. Happy to you don't have been invited on and you know happy to be here You know talking about the new book, but there's a lot to talk about Matt, could you do me a small favor? Could you rotate in your chair directly? Let's say 60 degrees to your right? Yes, and then and then and then tilt slightly back Towards your right. Oh this there we go If anybody has the full credit to be here to be showing this So first of all, let's just take in that gun show but secondly absolutely says Beasts for life. Absolutely. This is a person who is here to talk with authority About chaos. Okay, Matt. You can sit normally. Thank you very much, buddy I appreciate that. I just wanted everybody to see that that you that the level of dedication here. All right Okay, yeah, I mean well, I got it last year after you know Doing my first like positive GT record ever at my first LVO And I was just like okay if I get for what at last year's LVO I'll get a tattoo and I thought I wouldn't get it because I actually used to have like a 19% win rate when I was like first Gone to the hobby that's Jareth Thomas makes fun of me for a lot And then I did well got the tattoo and well, you know now I managed to get a second place, you know on ITC for beasts leading behind Noah Singh who won LVO Congrats to him. He's a buddy of mine who I talked to be so No is a good dude and that's I mean that like if you've got to be second place to someone That's a that's a heck of a credit right there. So not bad at all Alright, we are gonna talk beast tonight, but of course for of course first first forced the news Remember engine looks like serif on it. It's easy easy enough. Yeah, cool Excited speaking of we got the actual if banner bearer. I didn't pull a picture of him down, but looks good Matt, what do you think about all the serif on redesigned stuff? Yeah, you lizard fan at all or do you or do you follow? I guess most of the people in this show who think that lizards are either a fake army or a terrible army Which one do you go for? I've clearly always been a serif on fire, you know, I Do have four painted card of source. So I've always you know I've been excited to play the army, but I think the current style of the book or how it was from 2.0 to like now It didn't it didn't really vibe with me It didn't really feel like the dino army felt I mean, of course, there's a lot of themes that serif on has but I guess I just wasn't really Viving with the book and now if the book is you know, it's gonna get starless and a lot more things more love Then I'm definitely looking forward to that 100% Did Did Tom Guant borrow his four carnosaurs he took to Nash Khan last year from you No, I think that was from basil Okay, yeah, cuz I know he said when it's not many people in the world who have four Carnosaurs painted and he was like I borrowed these and I was like, okay I couldn't remember who he said he borrowed them from so that'd be very funny He did borrow my Okay, okay, there we go. Yes his his on a whim army. He ran the carnosaurs a bunch to good credit to him. All right What else we got in the news? See we've got snarling badger merch store. I'll talk about that. So hey for those who don't know snarling badger, which is our Myself and uncle Adams company that publishes space station zero and reign in hell and another book coming this year that we're putting the finishing touches on right now Ah Well by finishing touches, I mean writing there's a lot of things in between that but you get the point at any rate That we have a merch store now so all the cool art and things that you like from the books are available on t-shirts and mugs and hats and other cool things and It is a it's not just the merch store like it's not just a teespring thing or something like that. We it's a In the US producer, but they can ship worldwide. It's very like ethically sourced stuff It's high quality stuff. So we're really happy about working with them They work pretty closely with you when you set up your store. They're really good people. So yeah, we moved over there. Check it out The link is down in the description So there you go Very good, and I saw they put out the worst goals for the latest war cry war bands that they did indeed Let's take a look at those shall we I thought we would actually go ahead and do some do some react to those in real time So first off we've got the Jade folks the Jade obelisk people so You get ten of these guys All right, four of them have bows They have a five inch move six bravery four up save one wound each there are 145 points This is ten wounds for 145 points. It is a battle line unit because you know because it's what it is It's a cult unit and it is disciples of zinch. So it is a battle line option in disciples of zinch. I should say You get a little champion priestess You Get to you get an obelisk bearer that automatically restores one model to the unit at the end of every combat phase So you're always getting one model back and Then you get a little bird that gets to attack people lizard bird thing Uh They ignore modifiers positive and make negative when making save rolls With a target this unit so they're always on a four up just straight four up unless we're talking about mortals And at the end of the charge phase this unit can be picked to carry out the smash to rubble Monstrous rampage as if it were a monster very funny. So it's ten ethereal wounds All right, so what's your what's your verdict on these as another battle line choice and disciples of zinch as a potentially little I don't know maybe a little anvilish choice I guess kind of right because they are battle line you could reinforce them two or three times And they are for a petherial I don't know personally Seems a little expensive I'm not excited for this unit, but maybe I'm missing something. Okay, so I actually like them a lot I mean, they're definitely not like the Choice to go to but they're definitely a potential choice because if you re-invoice until like let's say a 20 block That's about 290 and in zinch you can give them a five up ward So they're actually a lot more durable than like, you know a good amount of battle line I mean, I don't think people own the models yet to experiment with this But I think it's a potential and bill if let's say you didn't want to just like run a lot of pinks and Blues and just split all the time Yeah, that shot because otherwise you're looking right at acolytes for the most part if your non pink option I haven't seen like a lot of zinch players that are putting blue horse in their list obviously, there's something blue horse, but It doesn't seem like I mean they've got screamers and they've got acolytes as that cheaper battle line option and that screamers are only option The option and host arcadum. So yeah, that could be interesting. I don't know That's still the fact that you can't get one of three up Yeah, four up five up board. That's not too bad. I don't know a little high Yeah, I'd like them a little better a little down, but they're all right Some people are saying these have been on the app for a while. I never saw them in the app But that's neat. Cool. I'm but this is the first today. They put up a news article about it It was the first time I'd seen them. So there you go. All right. Let's talk about the lizard guys We're yeah, Lizard guys. There you are hunters of hwanchi Oh hwanchi Hwanchi hwanchi. I don't know anyways, you can get them with the little dart pipes or you can get them with a little boloss and So and they have and then you get the little taro wings also a separate unit three units here So unit size of five in all cases. They're all skinks. Well, except for the taro wings. We're just taro wings The hunters of hwanchi with dart pipes are five for 135 The hunters of hwanchi with star stone bulls are five for 90 These little dudes are one wound little dooders, but they are chameleons So they can be set up in reserve both of them They They're little dart pipes or two attacks three threes no rend one damage But on a six to hit they do a mortal wound and they're not visible to enemies more than 12 inches away The ones with the bolas are exactly the same in that they get set up an ambush And they are not visible to enemies when they're more than 12 inches away or in cover I should say that or in cover at all. They become invisible if in cover of any kind Both of them and then but they have their little star stone bolas if they roll a six To hit then the unit is stunned, which they subtract one from hit rolls as long as the unit is stunned And then the little taro wings are just basically, you know cheap Seraphon aether wings. That's the best way I can describe it. You get six wounds on a six up save They can screech at people in the shooting phase where they roll against the enemy bravery on 2d6 If you happen to somehow get above that number You do shut off that unit's ability to issue or receive commands until the end of the turn very powerful payoff For an extremely not likely ability Depends on who you're fighting I guess I guess if we see a lot more gets on the table the the value of that shoots through the roof And and the army we're gonna talk about today also not known for its bravery So beasts are rich targets for these little guys And then you can also hide these guys in reserve if you have the hunters of Hwanchi, but you get three of them for 75 points I'm intrigued by the taro wings I was About them for stormcast you mentioned eighth wings obviously I mean usually you see either wings with lock strikes because you can get plus one hit via either wings with your long strikes General though. Yeah, I mean I went through the a ton of war scrolls at one point back when they changed the mind stealers for ranks You know making it more difficult to get the always strike last value and there's a lot in this game That still has a six seven bravery, so I don't know. I think I think they're pretty interesting at 75 points. Okay The others are skiing so I don't care. Yeah, I think they're definitely because well seraphon Is more with their points I actually think they could fit this in comfortably and I could see it being you know a staple in a lot of Seraphon list and not only just that because of their points I've even seen them being taken in other order armies like storm cast and other things because it's you know The taro wings or the utility from taro wings It can be really strong when it like happens and a lot of bravery this game is usually six and seven bravery, so yeah, my feeling is they're actually worth it because Even like even if we assume their ability fails a fair amount of the time There's still very relatively there's still relatively fast moving chaff on a like pretty good You know on a pretty good move speed 12 inch fly So they're very easily reactive chaff and then yeah, why not with a with a tremendous upside Like shutting off people's ability as you receive commands for a whole turn. So it's cool Yeah, I even think they're better than aether wings for like and they're about the same point as aether wings Unless I might be wrong on that They just have more utility Yeah, man, other than the the long strikes, right? If you're getting the plus one hit potentially, you know like transglucating your long You're sorry trans locating your aether wings to get your plus one hit in the hero phase with your thunderbolt Olly or whatever, you know, like it's usually the long strikes pairing where the aether wings barely really comes to play But yeah, totally and that I think you're right. We should see them quite a bit. I think Pretty cool Cool. All right, Vince. That's all I got anything. Okay I've got one more shout out. She's gonna lead me into pick of the week It's gonna actually be a transition because it's kind of both so Kathy Wappel One half of team Wappel Founders of Fort Wappel at up cut at Adepticon. Kathy is ill right now with cancer and there is a series of raffles going on to help her out and to help her and gym out with the Obviously the medical expenses. They've medical expenses. They've incurred You know, I won't get political but healthcare in America is Rough for a lot of people especially those who might be independently employed artists And so, you know, obviously Kathy is a tremendous and amazing person and human And so the raffle link is down below you can go There's a lot of amazing artists who are contributing pieces to this raffle that you can enter in to win so if you've always wanted to own a piece from some of your favorite artists in the world and You want to help charity at the same time and help a human who really needs it This is a good way to do both of those things. So check out the link down below That is my transition into pick of the week We can swing all the way back around to me at the end and then I have a I have a fun one As well Matt, what's your picks the week for everybody? so my personal pick of the week right now is You know the old town third-down video or it comes from the old town third-down channel Where three members from the Southern California community did a recap of their experiences at LBL and the games They played the three members that were on this stream was Matthew Barker Shane Lambert and Taryn so, you know, they're valuable members of the community They're always fun to be around and I count them as my personal friends and the way Barker leads this leads a stream And you know the conversation was you know, it's really insightful and thoughtful So I appreciate you know, I definitely recommend anybody that wants to hear some more personal LBO experiences to go listen to our old town third-down content What were they each playing at LBO so Matthew Barker was playing Nurgle and then Shane Lambert was playing Zech and then Taryn was playing blade the corn. Okay. Nice. Cool. Nice. Check that out respect Okay, Tyler you've got like 82 picks to make up. I mean, I told Matt he needs to bring more picks of the week I thought there was a I thought it was only one otherwise There is absolutely normally a one-pick limit. Tyler just flagrantly disregards the rules That's okay. A minuscule amount of power on this show that I'm happy to exercise All right, so burned through three in particular, I mean, we've already mentioned Noah Wonderful human. He had a great interview with Rob. That just went out this week and It actually had a spotlight interview last week. So man of the hour man of the week man of the month It's just really enjoyable hearing him talk about his LBO experience Obviously, he has what might be the best little You call that aphorism of those words for describing our community make five friends at 5.0 Playing games of age of Sigmar, which which I love. I think Rob wouldn't have put that on a t-shirt So yeah, great conversation about his approach to the game Friends that measure wargaming Joel McGrath and company Yep, got that right Nope, Joel Graham got it wrong Joel Graham This like it's a running gag, but it but it's the problem is it's real I can't get them right bees of chaos versus gets it was just nice to see the two new armies going at each other Terrible mission, but you could see why twists and turns is a terrible mission. So that was a lot of fun Friends of Saga of Dice we had a three and a half hour show sure we can do better tonight On Stormcast and the new HP in the meta So that was a lot of fun and then finally my friend Zano has come out with his new EHB dashboard Got your battle tactics and your you know Bandpoints and your score that go there and these you know like the little things that you get with the book itself It's got these that pop out for your tactics. Anyway Mine it's pretty sweet. Very nice. Oh, we've got a link if anybody's interested in getting those He can also customize for the faction battle tactics if you might have those also saw Caleb Walters That's got one. I've seen that around LVO quite a bit So I haven't tried out Caleb's yet, but I know he's got one rocking at Etsy. That's pretty popular as well So that's all I got. That's a little longer than a minute that I promise you all right link is in the description My pick of the week then will be pretty simple. It is again a hobby related one and it is from One of the most awesome artists in the world Roman Lopot and massive voodoo TV He has of his newest videos all about basing and upping your basing game He's talking both in army and display miniatures and just how to make cool flavorful interesting exciting bases So whether you want to paint a display miniature or just get some really good ideas for maybe your next army project check it out Roman is known for his incredible bases and being really just a master of putting together really fun bases without any Need to resort to like extremely crazy techniques. He uses a lot of simple Easy to apply easy to learn techniques to make something looks really good. So check it out Link down below. All right with that. Let's talk some hobby time gentlemen Matt. What are you been working on? What's on your table? So I've been I painted this gorgon a while ago But because of the new well one of the new sub factions in the new book I decided to like, you know, give it a little more love I still want to like work on it, you know, try to work on my highlights game better But I've been working on this little gorgon kind of hard to see with the camera But you know been very happy with him. You know, just give him a little more updates. Yeah Purple skin color. Yeah purple purple skin Because with how all my beasts of chaos are painted each one supposed to be like marked towards a certain God He's made the right choice There you go, we will we will talk about it. Absolutely Tyler. What are we talking about? I have put contrast paint on three plague drones ten plague bears and a beast and Dargol and A hell of a lot more has been Slapped chopping it up for the all the highlighting and everything are ready to go for some contrast making progress man It's happening. It's all happening. I love it. I love it. Oh It's been an intense hobby week for me I got my demon prince assembled and primed. He's ready to go. He's out of reach right now But he's over there. I got four of these little rat boys are painted up These are mild some little plague sensor bearers. They're actually 3d prints But I got them all painted so I and why four well because I happened to just have six from like the old metal models I had six and so one was just very lonely and never getting used and he needed four little friends So now I have two full units of those ready to go or well more than you know, I'm saying I have another unit ready to go and then I just started on my next golden demon model in this unit, which is my second ogroid out of the ogroid pherodons Unit from the slaves to darkness. So that is what I am working on there That's the current project is on him The demon prince was set aside after he was put together and primed as my reward to myself for finishing this guy Because this guy is gonna be a big giant pain and the took us to paint, but I figure if I can Dangle out a carrot. I'll take the stick. So there you go Okay Well gentlemen with that. Hey, who's ready to talk about some beasts. Okay us, huh? Did you say hooves ready moves ready to talk about the beast's okay us. That's right. Sorry. I was a little center there I don't we definitely are let's go. Here we go. Okay, so The beasts okay us we're gonna keep this We are gonna keep this simple here at the beginning then we're gonna flip over to a different document But we're gonna start with a little summary Okay, here's my notes Tell me what you both think Matt. I'm gonna come to you next after I after I sort of hit up my summary here I think it's a very different book than what we saw before a lot has changed But I do think that many of the same core themes of the army are still present What I mean by that is I still read this as beast chaos from a sort of Story theme vibes of her similitude Very similar to you know sort of perspective it still hits for me Though a lot of the individual pieces and components in the way things work and the war scrolls have changed a great deal. I Have here Johnny's unite. I think this is a really Johnny friendly book a lot of different list tech and play you can have here building in a lot of different ways to do a lot of different things there are a lot of different lists paths to victory and I think a lot of things are playable including units that were basically unplayable before are back on the menu I think overall there's some much better internal balance on display here But I think there are a few notable issues which will also touch on So that's my my sort of summary Matt. What do you what do you think overall? So as someone that's played the beast book since the last release of the last home I think this is definitely a more interesting book and while you know I think a lot of these players will miss having a billion Ren and a billion something points just spreading across the board I think the only reason why we got that was because they were looking to give our last book a Band-Aid while they were figuring out the identity of our book and Because our book was it struggled a lot back then I think with the buffs and made the book became less interesting and it became more of a castle build Which you know what I guess was fun for a while But then I got bored of it when I saw this new and I you know My prayer was is that whatever whatever this new book is I hope it's totally different and my prayers were answered and that this book is just radically different It actually plays into the ambush, you know style of our book It doesn't it doesn't have a sit around the herdstone like we used to we can actually play more a lot more Proactively then you know how beasts used to play before and like you were saying this is to me It's like the ultimate Johnny book of ages sigma like this Yeah, old beasts before the white dwarf was very Johnny ask a little bit But this to me is like the ultimate Johnny book. There's so many combos. There's so many texts and like There's a lot of things that are good But like there's not one thing where it's just like, okay, I have to say I have to spam this I have to take this there's nothing else matters No, like you this plays very much combined arms force, which I really appreciate from the new book and I think even though You know, there's some things I will definitely miss about the last book like with summoning and everything I'm glad that they made all the war scrolls interesting Even though we lost summoning because the reason why I think most of our world scrolls were last book was because summoning was a big thing Yeah, that's kind of like my thoughts on the book before we really get into it And while you know, I do have some You know worries or like complaints about the new book overall I think after getting some games in I definitely feel a lot better about the book and also shout out to you know Some of my friends I played the book with or watch them play like Shane Taryn and you know some of the beast of chaos players in the ages or AOS coach community that's made me a lot more optimistic than I thought it was when I first looked at the book Good awesome. I agree with all that Tyler your thoughts Very cool. Shout out to coach for making scheduling work leave it at that. He's a good man Good on the coach appreciate you You guys know that there's a lot not a whole lot more to say I think you're right Matt It is the ultimate Johnny book. I mean, I can't think of a more Johnny in this one It's I was getting I was messaging Vince about how excited it was because it's I write my willow Profile wise anybody doesn't know I mean we're kind of Johnny means you know that the whole thing we're talking about kind of It's it's challenging. It's interesting. It looks like there's gonna be a lot of different builds there You guys have mentioned, you know techie pieces tricks combinations. It's just Incredibly Johnny. So now it did seem like there might be some worse goals that are a little over-costed Intimated but would rather start high than start low. Yeah, I think that's a bad place to be I think that's right I think they're there. I think they took a more careful approach on this one Then they did with the gets is my honest answer like I think gets are going to see points increases and Multiple scrolls. I think over time this will see points decreases in and some scrolls and honestly I'd always rather start high than start low It's it's just so much easier to have some things knock back into adjustment because points up always tend to be more disruptive To how things were than points down so Okay Well, let's get into the book specifically. Shall we? And so let's bring that up. There it is Special shout out and thanks to Darren MC. I don't know who Darren MC is but thanks Darren He is someone on the interwebs who put this thing together and I was just like well this is cool I'm not gonna why do why make a presentation when this guy did all the hard work for me So I unabashedly took this from Facebook or Twitter or wherever I happen to see it posted and we're gonna use it. So thanks Darren Okay, honestly, I was reviewing this at work today before the preview just feel like okay I don't want to forget anything or just like I would be more prepared. So I was like, all right So yeah, thanks Darren for you know making this Absolutely. All right, let's talk about our allegiance abilities We're gonna zoom in and out as I try to make the text somewhat legible here to people as we go through the pages So during deployment instead of setting up a piece of chaos unit You can place it to one side and say it's set up an ambush as a reserve unit At the beasts of chaos Want to point that out? Okay, so that's where we're starting we can just that the army cool At the end of your first and second movement phases You can set up any friendly reserve units that are in ambush on the battlefield Holy within nine inches the battlefield edge and more than nine inches from all enemy units The start of the third battle round anybody who's still in reserve is dead And then most importantly add one to charge roles for friendly beasts of chaos units that are set up on the battlefield in the same turn I would point also point out that currently if You ever managed to reset up or teleport or anything like that for any reason you would still qualify for that at the moment Whether that sticks or not who knows Because it doesn't say I'd want to charge roles set up using this ability or something like that so Okay, um And so yeah I mean as they even say in the designers note this battle trait allows you to deploy all of the units in your army as reserve units Unless noted otherwise in the battle plan being used no one for one Know nothing like that if you want to be a null deploy Oftentimes we talk about null deploys and how people have to stretch for it You can but of course you have the limitation if you've got to come in sooner because it's got to be first or second round Not first second or third like most armies And you've got to be within nine inches the edge of the battlefield, which depending on the particular Battle plan being used Could be impactful a lot because you might be coming in very far from objectives or could matter not at all Because you might be coming in right next to objectives. So it really sort of depends on the individual battle plan And then so let's just talk about that for a minute because I want to set this rituals of ruin thing aside We're gonna we're gonna tackle this as a whole So Matt, how do you feel about that the the ambush capability that kind of thing? So when I first was reading the book and I saw that it got rid of summoning I was very worried at first because I was like, hmm How do we deal with like shooting armies and things like that if we have to run across the board? But as it turns out we don't have to do we don't have to move we can just deploy off-board And it gives everyone plus what a charge and you know reading some of the worst roles in the book There's some units that have additional plus when it charges So when they come off of the board edge, some of them have plus two to charge. So it actually I think Knowing when to like, you know deploy or null deploy, you know It's definitely a mark of a you know a skilled general Piloting this book because you know as as fun as it is to like deploy everything off-board There's times where you do want to do it There's times where you don't want to do it and I definitely do like that You're able to do it with everything because in the last book you were only able to do it with Angora's gores and Angora Raiders where like with the and only there's one faction called dark walkers where you can do it with everything else But now instead of and the restriction for ambush was round one And now it's round two and you'd come outside of nine rather than holy within six that is NASA for us Hmm Agreed the big changes here for quality of life are being able to be holy within nine of the battlefield edge Doesn't sound like a big difference from holy within six, but it is a massive difference Like it's crazy how much of a change that makes to the battlefield Uh And also the fact that it's just it's just all your units from this from the jump and turn one or two It's great It's incredibly versatile in how it allows you to deploy and the pieces and where you want to put them And you can respond to the battle plan. I agree with you I think this is one of those really fantastic allegiance abilities that responds really well as a skill test to the pilot Right because it it lets them react to the enemy army. They're facing to the battle plan. They're playing and so on and so forth Tyler Something comes to mind. Um, I'm guessing it's still the same I when they did the fact on this but they had a fact while back if you guys remember that came up when people were asking if I can come in holy within six of a board edge and Can I count as being contesting an objective? In this case, right? Holy within nine for an objective. That's 15 from an edge Nine plus six is 15. So I guess you would be able to contest at least with like one model On an objective. Does that seem right? Is that a add up? Yeah, it does add up. Okay. Yeah. Yeah So that's that's that's one interesting thing that comes to mind Um, Matt, I'm probably going to be in the mode of asking questions for you tonight I did skim this book once but I've never played these we've never had a local beast players I don't have experience with them. So I'm curious in your game so far. How much have you been putting off the table? So I think it's very situational, right? Like let's say if I'm playing against, you know, I've had a game My last game was against the Slaves of Darkness Archeon And you know because this was in one of the battle plans where I think I'm trying to remember the name of the battle plan But essentially there was like three objectives and the deployments are really close. This is the new jhp Yep I decided to put only my hammers in ambush because Archeon decided to go sladesh, you know mark and sladesh So I was like, okay, he can get to me wherever he wants to go So I think it's probably better and you know, he's one drop and I like to play beast high drops so I I generally put my hammers In ambush because you know in the case, you know, it's bulgur's they get plus you to charge up the ambush And then you know, I don't want to spoil too much about bulgur's because there's a lot of interesting tech that they have You know, we'll talk about that later. Oh, yeah, essentially, you know against, you know Against the army sometimes you want your tech on the board or off the board but against for example I get a shooting like let's say if you're playing gets, you know Luma death you definitely you can definitely put your things off board So they don't get targeted and sometimes it's better to do it for two battle rounds Because sometimes in the first battle round not much happens You just try to school go for an easy tactic get on objective or That's to create their land But then when it gets a turn two the game starts really picking up and because you're able to Dictate when to come out of priority, you know come come out ambush turn one or turn two You can I've done this play where like I would give the double from one to two because I have my most important things in ambush We're saying, okay I think I'm in a comfortable place where you can't really touch me and I don't really care if you know You get if you get the priority or you roll or if you double me here Because if I give you the double you can't really do much in your turn and then When I cut out at the bottom of two there's a chance I do a lot more and to me the prior the double from two to three Is always stronger than one or two So it definitely but I feel like what I love about this now is that Um, there's no one clear answer about when to put things into ambush. It's Situational it depends on your opponent and it depends on your play style. It rewards You know clever play and there's not like okay, you just have you it's not like when you're playing other books Like okay, you have to do it this way or it doesn't make sense You can do it whenever you want and then you know, I feel like this is a book where you know I feel like I don't understand every combo yet even though I played beast for a long time And that's the beauty of this is that you know the more practice you get the more you're able to understand When you put things into ambush and when you don't Yep, agreed. All right. Let's talk about these rituals are ruined This is a this is a whole new this is all new new tech as mentioned We're going to leave allegiance abilities behind here in a moment and there's going to be no more summoning So just uh, we've mentioned it a couple times, but let me just be super clear This army doesn't summon anymore. Uh, well, there's like one little way to summon But for the most part that like as an allegiance ability this armor does not summon Okay, and I say yay good a plus work kill summoning from more armies Can I get summoning removed from the next lanesh book as well? Can you just kill summoning and instead just give me good units that actually do things Instead of making me pay an extra 100 points for every crap unit I have anyways That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about this. Okay, so rituals are ruined What's going on here? In your hero phase you can carry out one of the heroic actions from the table below with each of your friendly beasts of chaos Heroes that is on the battlefield in addition to any other heroic actions You can carry out with those heroes If you do so before resolving the effect of that heroic action You must allocate d3 mortal wounds that cannot be negated to that hero or to another friendly beast of units Beast of chaos units within three inches of that hero if those mortal wounds would slay that hero the heroic action has no effect Okay, so all your heroes Get to do one of these things if you want, but they have to hurt themselves to do it or or a nearby unit In addition you can carry out one of the heroic actions from the table below with one friendly beast of chaos hero That is in reserve Okay, so one hero that's in reserve gets to do this This is uh, we're breaking some strong ground here Uh in that we've seen a little bit of this kind of play when people are in reserve this sort of Eminence ability. I'll call it But this book actually plays around with even when you're in reserve. You're still getting to Do things to some degree and here's here's the first example of this. It won't be the last we see If you do so before resolving the effect of that heroic action You must allocate d3 mortal wounds that cannot be negated to that hero blah blah blah If you have to pick an enemy unit, you must also pick one point on the battlefield edge That point is considered to be the hero for carrying out that heroic action For the purposes of measuring range and visibility If the heroic action instructs you to pick a friendly unit, you must pick the hero carrying out that heroic action Okay So friendly unit he can only pick himself Enemy unit I pick a point on the edge of the battlefield and then measure from that And then you can't carry out the same heroic action from this table more than once a lot of text A lot of text there, but we get some some lot of heroic action stuff now I'll say the same thing. I said last week for kids and it might be even more true here I'm not super sure about Heroic actions being like the big build out for beasts of chaos Like it's a bit of a strange Apples and oranges thing. I don't think of them as being particularly hero focused That being said at least we had the decency here to make it sort of its own thing These rituals that they're undertaking So it doesn't bother me as much because it's a different mechanic They hurt themselves when they're doing it or or a nearby unit So we're clearly aping a different thing and it feels a lot more in flavor than just here's some bonus heroic actions Go ahead and go nuts because Right because we can This to me feels much more aligned than the last one did okay Warping curse pick an enemy unit within 12 of the hero Uh carrying out the stroke action and visible to them this unit suffers d6 that unit suffers d6 mortal wounds. So pretty strong Uh pretty strong for your people who are in ambush as long as they're within 12 inches of the edge of the board Picking any unit within 12 of the hero carrying out this action and more than three inches from all friendly units And visible to that hero your opponent has to make a 2d 6 inch move with that unit All the models in that unit must finish that move as close as possible To the beast of chaos hero carrying out this heroic action and more than three inches from all other units in your army so fun Seems potentially quite good Seems potentially quite strong in a lot of different shenanigan ways a lot of a lot of different ways Yeah, uh the brand I love moving enemy models around. I'm glad to see basically this is uh Devolve or whatever used to be the ones that used to walk people around is not like that anymore So this is this is basically where that went now Uh brand of wild fury pick one friendly beast of chaos hero Holy within 12 of the beast of chaos hero carrying out this heroic action invisible to them Till the end of this turn friendly beast of chaos units have a ward of six up While they're holy within 12 of that hero, okay Um probably not the one you're picking for your guy in in reserve unless he's coming on in a very particular way Uh And then alpha beast instinct pick one friendly beast of chaos unit holy within 12 of the beast of chaos hero carrying out this Heroic action invisible to them do not take battle shock tests For that unit this turn Uh, so obviously a pretty important one these guys do not have great bravery and do not have a lot of great ways to Uh stop people from running much like the goblins we discussed last week bravery is a challenge for this army uh And so Um You know, it's nice. That's a nice one. All right Matt Starting over with you buddy. What do you think of these? Do you like these new heroic actions? Do you like these options? Obviously this gives you, you know, if you got four heroes You're kicking out potentially four of these every round if you like, right? Yeah, so The d3 water wounds mechanic actually in the last book was for summoning and what I was seeing what replaced summoning I had to look at this for about like, you know, let's like 10 minutes and then I'm just like, okay This is what, you know, we lost something This is what we lost something for and all of these are, you know, really strong and situational in their own ways I think obviously the best ones that stand out are the mortal wounds one and blood taunt because being able to 2d6 move a screen out of the way before you charge is like, you know, really impactful in some games Or you can even do let's say there's a mega gargant sitting on an objective You know, you just okay. Cool. You get to move Oh, you just move them off the objective potentially I mean, of course, still it's a 2d6 roll because so you could still roll like a 3 or something and doesn't do much But the potential for that is actually really powerful and the fact that we can do this off board is like, you know I didn't expect that and that was, you know, really nutty. It took me a little bit of time to comprehend You know, how many combos that we can do because of that. I think the other two The battle shot community one would be valuable if it lasted until the next battle round or my next hero phase Well, because it only happens on your turn So unless they can charge you in your own own turn battle shot community, I think it's situationally, okay And then the other one was um, everyone gets a six of ward that only lasts in your turn So it's like, you know, it's all right, but definitely Doing d6 border wounds to a hero, especially in the new Galation champion season is extremely valuable and then also being able to move something is just, you know It this is what we lost something for and I feel like, you know I I don't know if I like that they called it heroic actions because when I first read the um the text It was kind of confusing and then I realized oh You can do this on top of heroic actions and every hero gets to do this that you have in your list So, you know, it's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, you hit a couple things there I really want to focus in on These extra heroic like heroic actions obviously happen in both players turns normal heroic actions. These do not Right. These are in your hero phase Okay, so that is a very important note for everybody to really hone in on In your in the enemy turn you're still doing your normal heroic actions, whatever you've got fine fine And as pointed and that's where where the last two the brand of wild fury and the alpha beast instinct, you know run into a bit of a A challenge now that being said I'm still not opposed to it Especially the alpha beast instinct just because even in your own turn sometimes, you know, your dudes are going to get hit Or if you're you know near someone and you you're afraid you're if you're in a protracted combat That's potentially going to go turn against you or something. That's cool. It's still nice It's good to have the option, but I agree with you It would be you know a lot better if it lasted in some way or had some way to be done off turn Where you really need it? So you're not wrong there Uh, the I totally agree on the warping curse though And and your point about in the current season the fact that that hero that little galatian champion that little general council Might be immune to shooting, but he ain't immune to being cursed, right? So it's just like black Um And my final thought is my favorite top my favorite sort of thing with blood taunt Is picking the point, you know having an off-board guy and picking a point like having some slow ish Anvil unit like I think of sort of fire slayers and their non-tunnel units that move forward relatively slowly But if they keep anything within 12 inches of the edge of the battlefield You pick the point directly behind him and then walk them backwards again Right so that that way you just suck them back to the backboard Again, so they don't like this poor these poor slow little stunty dwarves You effectively undo their entire first turn right and then them being as slow as they are Things like that. I think are really fun, right? Yeah I mean, I remember I was playing against std and then I was playing against chaos warriors who had movement fives And then I've rolled like a 10 and they're like and my opponent literally went wait This is faster than the regular movement. I'm just like Yeah, yeah, I didn't write the rules. Yeah Yeah, I mean it may mean a number of games that you have to I mean maybe obvious But you have to play more centrally Against base of chaos, which is kind of interesting. I mean, I know I think a number of these missions Are encouraging us to play centrally, you know, like jaws of gallant. There's advantages hours for the taking the one You were talking about earlier with right the three objectives There's a lot of value in the center of the of the board But that was just one thing that came to mind How often have you been finding that you're doing this in your game so far? Um blood talk or just the or just in general the the rituals um I do them every turn because it can be incredibly impactful Even though if the impotent like, you know plans and knows about it The fact they have to keep in mind that this is a thing makes them play very differently and sometimes The threat of it is stronger than you actually doing it You know power is power achieved Yeah, and then um I forgot what I was going to say, but um I Yeah, I think you know rituals of ruin it feels definitely fluffy for our faction And you know, I like that they kept the d3 mortal wounds mechanic for a really strong, um, you know Impact on the game because we lost summoning Sure shout out to Loch Ness 94 in the chat He said I he did the pull him back toward the back of the to the backboard On a unit of 10 blight kings for the first two rounds they couldn't charge until turn Oh god, that's painful. What a what a wonderful way to invalidate 500 points of the enemy army By just rubber banding them to the to the edge of the board and like let's say um Another fun thing is that like let's say if you're an old deploying and you know And the opponent is like playing a horde army that's trying to like, you know block you off from deploying on the board You can use blood taut to like Give yourself more space Yeah, which is another like funny thing you could do. Yeah, that's very interesting Yeah, like the point about essentially deploying with nergal I've done so often I want to have multi-front engagement with nergal because they in a lot of my games They are tending to do better And You know in more pockets of the board But yeah, if I'm having to worry about people, you know them being arranged to then pull that's that's pretty nuts I hadn't even thought about that How are you building your list with? I'm probably answers. Yes, but Chris are you building your list with? Um sacrificial units in mind to take the d3 mortal wounds for your heroes like you're deliberately building in I don't know Whatever Yeah, so I um, you know not to spoil too much for our you know We've got some lists. Don't worry. Yeah. Yeah, so I think I don't believe fast enough. We won't look at his list So if you want to keep diving on this minutiae, then we'll just not look at the list But I to answer your question though a Tyler. Yes, there's I definitely make lists that you know Revolved around like, you know having a unit that takes the mortal wound And you know, we'll get into the tech layer of how you don't have to just do it on the hero So, yeah, I feel so so happy knowing that. Thank you. Okay. Let's keep moving All right command traits, uh, so Beasts of chaos heroes. We just got one one table one one list here Uh, let me see. We'll zoom in a little bit more there. All right Uh, I'm just gonna go for it this way Matt, what do you like off this list? What what do you like off of the off of the the command trait list? What's what's making your your picks here for your for your general? What have you played around with? So some of my personal favorites are um, yeah, so now this, you know, the it's a little clearer Definitely the ones I play around with are a twist freight curse beast Um, that one to me is really underrated or underrated because our spell lore is really strong So by the time you get to turn two turn three, you're gonna have plus two to plus three to cast Which is, you know, really strong for a faction. So I like putting it on a arcane tome on a zhangor shaman for example and you know He's very mobile and he's very, you know, it's it makes our cast a lot more reliable It's like, well, let's say you want to get wildfire tariffs out and then my other personal You know, my other personal favorite is like fray reveler because um, for example, locally we're uh, you know in so cal We have we have player place terrain So defender in our um local meta gets a place to rain So and because our terrain pieces pieces are often big enough Beasts of chaos can really benefit from plus three to move by being with it's not wholly within it's just within of a six inch or six inches of a terrain feature and then um, I think the other command trait that I really like is bestial cutting because um Coming seven inches and then some units get plus two to charge. Okay. They just need to make a five inch charge Rerolling. Yeah, those are the you know, three I've been playing around with I think the what I kind of feel down on is um Rock fray plague pelts because Honestly, my experience with beast of chaos heroes. They're more supportive than you know combat focus So you want to keep your heroes alive as much as you can Especially in the gc season Yep, I mean you picked the exact three I was going to call out I just think they're all good being able to set up seven inches away We know from storm cast and everything else that that is incredibly good. It's incredibly potent, right? It's it's amazing to drop something at seven inches And as you mentioned they will effectively most of the units we're talking about will now effectively be charging on a rerollable five That is Wild like that is so good. All right, like you're in okay The cursed beast is unreal good Because you have a lot of good spells in this army So if you can actually start casting those that's nice It's nice to be able to actually cast your spells with some good bonuses And yeah, the reveler just for the move bonus. It's pretty easy to get it It's not like the old one where they have to be within three inches Or something that are you know very tight range, right of the of the person that has it. It's just they have to be within They they have to start their normal move within six inches of a terrain feature. So it's cool Yeah, I think also what I like about the command trace in this book Is that like their actual options because I feel like with some three port notebooks The command traits are kind of like it or someone just goes well, I'll just take master of magic Well, in this book it actually makes you a case of okay You don't have to take master of magic and actually take like you know command traits from your book And you know, I really appreciated the effort they put in to make our you know command traits interesting Absolutely Yep Also Okay Tyler any thoughts on command traits? Oh, no. No, I think I think you guys know that Yeah, yeah, that's what I think as well. Yeah, very good. Then let's talk about our anarchic relics Let's talk about some artifacts here We're gonna do this the same way What what do you like here? Is is is anything on this making your list? You mentioned already the arcane tome and that's always the question when it comes to artifacts Are any of these worth picking first over? Arcane tome if no Which of these are you picking is your second pick if you get a second artifact? That's the question So in some of the lists I've brought and I've written for piece of chaos And I don't I don't just own piece of chaos. I own a good amount of armies, but in with piece of chaos in particular I can actually Run arcane I can not arcane. I'm sorry I could actually run two of my favorite artifacts in this book are you know these I can't pronounce the slither rack helm and gray blast trumpet. Those are incredibly strong for our army And because I think especially with the helm there's really there's tech with the doom bowl for example But you know I'll we'll get into that later and then break blast trumpet because we can't summon anymore Even if you roll one you still get that unit, which is really nice So I often run high drops and I always run these two artifacts in tandem together without arcane tome Nice. Yeah. I mean I agree the ability to just Have something charge in and then put asl on is strong And you know the ability to have some kind of summoning is uh is is pretty good So, yeah, I like I I agree once again you you've picked the two That I I really liked Um, I will also give a little shout Okay For just the flavor the dripping with flavor Although maybe not the best But I I just love the flavor of it to the knowing I if you take the first turn in the current battle round After the players have received their starting command points You receive one command point that can only be spent during that turn to allow the bearer to issue command If you take the second turn the current battle around your hero can make a six inch normal move after receiving Your command point. I just love goofy things like that. I just think that's super fun. It's not good But it's super cool. I love I love neat interesting things like that So things like that make me really happy. I think the other artifact that um, you know I kind of overlooked this but then you know after seeing my fellow beast of chaos players Joel McGrath and Bart pointed out bleeding narrow staff. It's really strong Um, because especially if you're playing on like math's word terrain pieces are big And it just it just kind of happens on a two-up and because um, this book Now does a lot more water wounds than it did before Yeah, the fact that everything within six inches is what makes the narrow staff interesting Right a lot of effects like this are either on the terrain or within three inches And so they become a lot easier to dodge The six inch aspect of that makes it a lot more appealing because that's actually on many boards, you know many Especially you think like tyler. I think of you know a nashgon board or something like that my god There's you there's nowhere to hide Right 100% yeah, so yeah You like the awesome. He likes the knowing eye I just thought it was fun I guess it's one that I want to try out just because I it has the goofy kind of qualities I like in a magic item But anyways, yeah Is there not a great or is there not a good option for the acts of morgar or morger? Is there just not a hero really like that the problem with things like that in my mind Are are the same how many times what what like what happens if you don't face armies with a ward save like there's just The other things deliver value all the time. That's right. Yeah, so kind of like the nargo demon prince Yeah, it's like that's the only option is the is the nargo portion, but yeah Otherwise it's kind of crap So if you can like tilt into it on an option that you're not expending anything for it's super good If you're having to expend something like a magic item choice for it, it's not worth it for this one guy Right, it also puts your heroes in a precarious position Especially if you're taking mortal wounds on them from the rituals of ruin And because you rather do the rituals of ruin then put them into combat because they don't the greatest combat stats that you know It's just I think it's it's cool. It's neat, but you know Definitely something i'm not really looking at because um You know you want to keep your heroes safe in this army Gotcha. Yep checks out cool All right Let's talk about our spell lures. We got two of them obviously one for thunder scorn one for brae herd wizards And then we've broken with tradition uh, and we got five spells in the thunder scorn And uh six spells in the brae herd. I was I was amazed when I flipped to this and saw this I was expecting a three spell lure for thunder scorn all the way down for sure Once again, but no they surprised me Uh, I won't read every spell You can see them here on screen. Hopefully I hope they're big enough to be read. Um, but Honestly I like a lot of the thunder scorn wizard spells like i'm i'm in love with this spell lure. It's everywhere I want to be I've always loved Shagoths that's not like my so my beast army is this is actually a very exciting book for me because my beast army is all big monsters and I have three shagoths and Five gorgons and nonsense like that. Um, why do I have five gorgons? You can never use five gorgons because I have five because why would you ever stop? um, but at any rate so I've always been a a shagoth stan and when I read this this was super jazzed Matt, what do you what do you think of this spell lure overall? the spell lure in, um old The shag old shagoth spell lure was really amazing in the last book and I'm shocked they actually gave like extra spells to it Like I'm really surprised that Hailstorm stayed the way it did because Hailstorm is literally one of the best spells probably in the game, honestly And it also just goes off on a like let's say a six. Yeah and 21 inches That is a massive range for that spell and then, um I mean, honestly, all the spells are situationally like good there. I can't really say there's like a bad spell honestly Like maybe thunder wave is a little bit, you know It's a little bit niche to get off because maybe you don't want the shagoth in combat as much but You know, honestly another one I want to shout out is raging storm Especially if you want to build around dragon ogres Because you know, that's really like the concept of oh everyone takes a mortal wound while you heal is really neat Like, you know, it's really like fluffy and you know good spell while, you know Full for garrus blades, um, you know, there's as we will find out there's a lot of debuffs in this book And you know, this is definitely on top of it. Yeah. Yeah, no complaints from my end. They're all fantastic I agree Like this is a strong spell lure I love Hailstorm with that long range all the ranges feel good honestly because You know, you look down the the line And it's 21 inches 18 inches 18 inches 18 inches the whole battlefield Yeah, that's your ranges. That's great Like how many times do we look at spell lures? And by the way, look at the cast values 6 6 5 6 and then you know Sure, but like reasonable reasonable, uh Cast values like this is a great lure again. I agree with you. None of these are immediately breaking on their own Right, um But they're good like they're nice Uh, Thunderway for me is also probably the like But it's it's good Uh, garith is asking matt if you had sacrificial kittens in your room Oh, yeah, um, I can't they're really needy So I think he wanted to just me to give him some attention. So that's why I took off the mic and just pet him You're good, buddy. I understand. Believe me. It's all good. All right Our bray heard Lore everybody loves the bray shaman. There's a lot of reasons Uh to love the bray shaman now. We're gonna we're gonna get to not they was not that there wasn't before This guy's actually always been an interesting standout For different reasons now though. We'll get to him in a second Uh, but this lore is also Uh, really fascinating to me again full full lore six spells Lot of shorter ranges though On this one a lot of 12 or 12 inch ranges Still very reasonable cast values for the most part with a couple standouts But what do you what do you like out of this spell lore matt? Where where are you living with this one? They're all situationally like good. I think I mean, I definitely do have clear favorites But like I can safely say that none of the spell lore in brayard is bad I will say my personal favorites are um vile tide not the taking not being able to receive commands of the Turn which is really crucial for redeploy stopping redeploying all defense Um vicious strangle thorn is really good for stopping pylons if you're going against like death blobs Or if you're running a gorgon, which we will go into later and then um And I think I do like tendrils of atrophy. I think tendrils of atrophy feels like a win more um spell Because of the range, but I mean you have blood taunt. So it's it's doable to bring You know something closer into range for the spell to get off I think definitely the more consistent ones are um Yeah, vile tide vicious strangle thorns and that um wild rampage because getting exploding hits on some of your hammers in this book Is really valuable Yeah, tyler Yeah, yeah, you covered the ones that I thought were we're standouts as well. So yeah, both of these lures look great though They really do. Um, I I will say You know vicious strangle thorns. I actually like quite a bit It might be one of my favorite for such an innocuously simple spell And as as has been pointed out in the comments You do have the potential to pull people, you know, 2d 6 inches closer to you So your 12 inch bells aren't as hard because you could heroic action to walk somebody closer to you potentially Uh and and get them there. We'll talk about how you can do that when they're outside of 12 for some of those in just a moment um But the but vicious strangle thorns depending on the enemy unit Boy, is that a really potent ability depending on what you're going to go into them with Uh, if you know on your turn, you know what you're going into Uh being able to like side clip charge a unit with some of your smallish or smaller footprint You know absolute beat sticks and then know that they just can't pile into you And so they're going to have, you know, a couple of things attack back Is really really powerful for setting up Uh A move where where you're often more fragile units don't lose as much as they should have on the clapback so That's that and and again very low cast good range. That that's the kind of stuff that I think techs out Really well with this army, right? So yeah, there's some units of this book that can you know pull units out of coherency, which makes to me, um Vicious strangle thorns one of the best spells in this book. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's a good point Absolutely clever. Yeah So we got some definite strong stuff here in both spell ores I this is great to see like honestly out of the 11 spells on offer here I think probably nine of them at least I look at and go Yeah, I could see a situation where I where I want that in my list and that's pretty great Like that's pretty that's a pretty good hit list and the other two is not like they're terrible. It's just like, hey, I can do better right Okay Very good. All right, let's talk about the great phrase. Let's talk about our sub factions There we go. This is bigger tech so I can swing out a little bit. Okay Uh, just let me time stamp this as we move to the great phrase All right, so we got four on offer here All heard We got three returning favorites and and and one new super favorite my ultimate favorite. They did it again folks Don't worry. Timmy's out there who are like me. It's okay. I know you've been scared We've been talking about all this johnny book so much Don't worry They took care of us. We're fine We'll get to it in a second. All right. So here we go all heard Beast, you'll might at the end of the battle shock phase you can return d3 plus three slain model To each friendly all heard gores all heard on gores and all heard on gore raiders units on the battlefield that is Quite a lot of models coming back So, yeah, okay cool We're gonna we'll all I'll go to both of you in a moment after you read through the four of these and see Where you're where you're living Dark walkers At the end of your movement phase you can pick one friendly dark walkers gore Ungor or ungore raiders unit wholly within nine of the battlefield edge And say that it will slink into the shadows If you do so remove that unit from the battlefield and set it up again Holy within nine inches of the battlefield edge and more than nine inches from all enemy units Okay, so they can walk away and they have a they have a very situationally limited teleport But it's sort of they can do as much as they want Gavs spawn grave spawn Grab the spawn whatever it doesn't matter whatever this is Uh jibbering congregations You can include jibbering congregations in your army Cool We'll talk about that in a moment Um, I will say this also makes uh What does this make this makes your Uh beast of chaos cast spawn also battle line. It's not gravestone. By the way, it is gavspawn. That's a mistype I'm not wrong here. I don't think I didn't lose my mind. I knew it was gavspawn Yes, the the darin You you you made the cardinal sin of boc there everybody wants to say grave, but it's not gav. I'm sorry But that's okay darin. I still love you. It's great. I don't know you but I appreciate you putting all this together Okay, and then finally My number one pick. I'll give it away right now. Here we go, baby We're in it to win it quake fray Living idols of ruin. That's right friendly quake fray cygor units gained the priest keyword In addition friendly quake fray cygor priests know the following prayer in addition to any others that they know earth shatter This is a very small text Earth shatter is a prayer that has an answer value of three and a range of 12 Inches if answered pick one objective within range and visible to the caster Each unit within six of that objective suffers d3 mortal wounds and until your next hero phase when returning the number of models In uh in units that are contesting that objective that number must be halved rounding down This prayer has no effect on beasts of chaos units So you can just earth shatter your opponents and not count your own dudes on their Great stuff also important to understand about quake fray is that cygor and gorgon are battle lying In the quake fray army, so they lose behemoth and become battle line. Did I mention I have five gorgon? Hey, hey All right, so um Yeah, fantastic Matt, what do you like here? Where's your picks? What are you living? I like all the sub factions except um, I'm a little bit iffy on dark walkers personally But I think maybe there's a world where like someone figures out the tech for I think dark walkers is definitely the most Johnny sub faction out of all of them because even though a while like there's you know I don't see immediate value in dark walkers I think there is like some potential tech if you're choosing to play around that My biggest complaint about dark walkers is I wish it affected all of our units that so that it became more of an option Because I think to me the strongest sub faction um Or I don't want to say strongest because I feel like all the sub factions encourage different ways to play piece of chaos But to me my personal number one contender is all heard because bringing back d3 plus three Uh on gore's gore's for free is you know Crazy strong because when we look at the new gore war scroll later They could be on a four up natural So I was playing against arch on the 30 gores and I had 30 gores with all at defense I am mystic shield and I think against one of our gowns bread one attacks I told my friend dead pan. Yeah gore's are on a three up save and he was like what I'm just like Yeah, and they're coming back d3 plus three. So all heard is just really good Also, because we lost summoning in our army and it gives um our units a lot more durability You know because d3 plus three happens in both player turns So it's really hard to like finish off something. So I mean that's kind of how I feel about you know, um Yeah, that's how I feel about all heard and then um Gave spawn is also really techy because when we you know when we look at the spawns later There's a lot of debuffs that you can do around that So, you know, I also really like gave spawn and then quake fray. It's just incredibly fun because well It's you know, I I didn't play warhub or fantasy But I read that there was a faction called monsters of chaos where like I guess this is maybe a throwback to that I don't know but you know It's definitely great And then one of the tech things that you can do with a cygors is priests is that you can because they're priests You can give them heal So let's say you have a hero by the cygore you cut the cygore for rituals of ruin And then on a three at the cygore heal heals himself So, yeah That's cool. Yeah Yep And by the way, they Like all of your cygors are now priests. I just want to point that out in quake fray It's not like just one or something. They're just all priests And priests are cool. So, um A plus I agree with you. I mean to me the raw power is definitely living in all herds still D three plus three an average of four models coming back. Sorry five models. I apologize coming back to the unit To to to multiple units potentially Every battle shock phase, you know the the clan rat ability to just return d3 I think is really powerful and that's on a complete trash unit That they didn't they ain't they ain't getting to three up. I'll tell you that much. Okay Uh, and I I find that to be incredibly strong. So so live in here and you're absolutely right Like I think for the first time in a long time Gore have a defined role in the army Holy crap folks We did it. We got there like unfurl a mission accomplished banner. There's a reason to take gore. I can't Believe it. All right So, uh, yeah, good stuff tyler any thoughts on the on the great phrase. Yeah, all herds all day yep Yeah, I guess before we go on, um, I see some people are mentioned are asking on stream What is the johnny? I feel like I'll let you guys explain that because we've been tossing the word around Yeah, no problem. So johnny Timmy spike the three psychographic profiles originally introduced by mark rosewater and the magic the gathering research and development team to talk about the why You play the game long time viewers this show will know we often talk in psychographic profile team terms Because it's really important and it's just as applicable here and uh, the shortest example the shortest explanation of the three types is spike Wants to win Wants to prove something Timmy wants to experience Something really amazing like he wants to see big monsters and and and play big monsters and have cool things happen and uh, johnny wants to express something often his intelligence or You know something like that, but johnny likes list building tech Synergy likes when you can put things together to make them more than the sum of their parts This is a very johnny book because it very much operates like that from what you put in ambush to how you use the Um, the heroic ritual things to you know a lot of this stuff We've been talking about it's just very techy stuff that in the hands of like a players putting it together in the right way It just becomes way more than the sum of its parts. That's that's how beasts is living now. So I suspect Tyler I'm gonna make a bet with you right now. Are you ready? Yeah, bud Here's my bet In a couple months whenever time and I don't know when I just you know by the end of spring Let's say because we know that we're gonna get another chaos Two cast books in spring and we have a very strong reason to believe that will be corn and slainesh right I am going to make you a prediction that a market number Of current corn players who are playing corn for its johnny ish You know tactic tricky techy nonsense We're gonna suddenly have to say I've always been a visa chaos player And they're gonna migrate for in the chaos family right on over here into into visa chaos Uh, because I strongly suspect the next corn book is just gonna be a timmathon Uh, and and all those players will be like no, I don't like it anymore It just it just does things now Uh, whereas this book makes you makes you think and work for it. So, you know, there you go Uh, so that's my prediction All right grand strats and battle tactics. Look they exist folks. Okay Matt this is where I always turn over to the guest and say Uh, guest is there anything you would like to say about the grand strategies and battle tactics Of this book because I don't review these Um, oh Grand strats, um, they're all really situational. We're which is kind of nice. There's no like, oh, this there's no guinea's like Oh, we're the other doc one where it's like, okay I get to play the game and then I get my grand strat No, you actually I think you actually have to try with some of these grand strats The battle tactics though a lot of them are very similar to doc battle tactics Which really shocked me like I was surprised how easy some of these tactics are Where like I feel like if you really want to you don't even have to care about the Galation champions like Like it was Shocking to me. They gave us like five or six battle tactics, which was really surprising and for grand strats How how would you rate these as far as getting the battle tactics accomplished? Like do you think you're often using let's put it this way Do you think there's one or two out of this list you you will go to in most games? Okay, so We're starting off with the uh grand strats, right? Well, you do we'll do battle tactics here on the battle tactic like that was good. You covered the big grand strats I'm good with it. That's literally as deep as I need to go on the battle tactics side Here's my question. Do you think there's one or two of these you would do in Most games 80% of games something like that you would do one or two of these Yes, there's definitely several I would do so, um, the first one to mention is rampaging beast herd just Have your ungors or goers go into ambush Wait for them to get off the objective or you just rush your screen onto an enemy objective And then you get your you know, you get your battle tactic Cool Like I mean you don't really have to interact with your opponent that much to get that battle tactic And then the other one that I really like is um eight of the wilderness Especially if you're playing with player place to rain all you literally have to do is just sit in like I think wild woods and cover and then you just get your battle tactic because there's a lot of terrain That's outside your territory So yeah, those are definitely my my two go twos for battle tactics All the other back battle tactics are really situational where it's like, you know, let's say You kill a unit with a ritual of ruin. Okay, this one enemy hero has like two moons left Then you just they used the clear battle tactic and do it. So sure. Yeah But they're all like generally like they're not difficult to accomplish. So yeah cool Yeah, I think honestly one of the hardest ones is in the shadow of the herdstone Just because it's going to be most players will just not walk if they know you have that as an option They just and and also given the way the herdstone isn't like unless they're really trying to get in and smash that thing To get ready a rend but a lot of people will just backboard the heck out of the herdstone now Like have it back corner back protected because there's no reason to have it anywhere else It's just gonna be rough to actually get at and then, you know, if they do get there They're just going in there to try to smash it and then that's it So either they're gonna go attack it so they can smash it to rubble or they're just not going to get near it Right. So yeah, and honestly with this new battle tone, we're less reliant on the herdstone surprisingly So we can just be literally I just stick it off in the middle You know in the edge corner or something and just leave it alone. Yep. It just kind of Goes over there go you you go. It's like it's down here If this is the if as usual if this rectangles the board is just like it's right here Yeah, down here. Yeah Okay Good stuff war scrolls. Let's war scroll it up boys. Here we are All right, let me let's get this to a good size and that looks about right They're fine. You're good. Alrighty. Let's talk about some war scrolls Uh I will be talking about the points for each of these as we go Uh, so we will start of course What's that? You have the herdstone at the start that might get I don't have the herdstone at the start Uh, I don't do you want to just we can talk about the herds down real quick. Sure. Sure Go ahead. Do you want to talk about it? Talk about it? Yeah, so just to get context, uh, it is still giving you rent I believe it's a little different. Like I said, I'm not I'm credulous It is a little different in timing. So just read it out so people know So in tropic Loadstone from the start of the second battle round improved the ring characteristic melee weapons used by friendly vsc chaos units On the battlefield by one and then started the fourth battle round do that But improved rent characteristic by two Oh, yep. Yeah. So it's now two and four For rend one and rend two improvement. So that's the timing on that Um Because you're not summoning anymore off of it. You're not feeding people to it and stuff like that and so yeah Context context at the start around two all your melee beasts go up by one rend Round four all your melee stuff goes up by two rend. Okay So we need to keep that in mind as we evaluate all the rest of these scrolls All right, the beast lord our new our new big boy our new our new little bad boy here a new sculpt Six wounds on a four up save with a six inch move He's got his little dual axes Where if he if his unmodified hit roll is a six Then he causes a number of mortal wounds equal to the damage characteristics of two and then he stops Because he is a standard hero now I want to come back to I there's I'm going to put a pin in that. I'm going to talk about that in a second. Um And then he's got the hatred of heroes within three inches of any enemy heroes Add one to hit rolls and wound rolls for attacks made with melee weapons by friendly beasts of chaos units while they're holy within 12 this unit Okay, sure Not the easiest thing to pull off because you got to go get into combat with an enemy hero But that's fine Uh And then call a battle in the combat phase when you pick this unit to fight for the first time He can pull a break her unit holy within 12 with him. He can chain activate All right the beast lord As we evaluate him we find he is 145 points Okay, my evaluation of the beast lord is not positive matt. Where do you live on the beast lord? I think you and I are in agreement. Um His combat profile is like would be nicer if he was like 100 points But as it stands I I actually from what I remember He's actually a little worse than his and then the last, um Books edition of the beast lord where he used to have full rerolls against like monsters and heroes and exploding sixes now He's just like okay And I guess like I guess maybe they priced him because he could do two mortal wounds on Sixes to a hit and then he can make something else fight within you know, three inches of him after him But because I already said earlier that beast of chaos heroes Had to not want to be in combat for the most part honestly Because they want to stay alive with the rituals of ruin and everything and just be on the board Um, I yeah, I think if he were cheaper, maybe he'd be in consideration But right now, um, I think there's definitely better hero options Than him at the moment sadly and it's sad because you know, I bought the model You know the new model the new beast lord everything, you know, I'm definitely going to paint it up still But it's a cool moment. I do like the new model a lot Yeah, but yeah, I'm kind of down on him sadly I I agree like at a hundred and forty five. He's just not appealing to me that hatred of heroes is an extremely powerful buff I agree with assistant ref But boy is it hard to trigger and it's so risky like this guy's just ready to get pasted against a wall Now on the flip side of that When they first introduced storm cast heroes in 3.0 and they had like five attacks on threes threes neg one two damage And I was like, yeah, now this is a hero profile, right? This is how storm cast heroes should be I hate that now every hero every goblin every every everybody is just five attacks on threes and threes neg one two damage like No differentiation in the heroes unless you're some really massive thing like an ogre tyrant. That's it But everybody every vampire Every when when the empire book comes out all their generals on foot are going to be five attacks on threes threes neg one two damage like great Awesome I love that all these foot heroes all have equally useless profiles now because they're all just like not impressive There's nobody who really stands to stock above anybody else anymore Stop it. Stop it Um, yeah, it's just he's way overcosted 40 years, but okay, that's that's the bottom line. Yeah Yeah, I guess you know, luckily though, it's a points issue rather than a worse issue So sure like I agree with you at like a hundred points or 90 points or something I'd probably take him just for a shot at like, let's see if we can get it off. You know what I mean? Like, hey, let's go Let's take a swing. It's a big powerful buff at 145 nah nah Okay, great, but but from bad news to good news. Let's talk about the great bray shaman So the great bray shaman 95 points now we're cooking with gas Okay, uh six inch move five up save seven bravery. He's got his little staff that he attacks with but who cares That's not why he's here He's a wizard single cast wizard But importantly he is infused with bestial vigor Add six inches to the range of heroic actions from the rituals of ruin battle trait that you carry out with this unit Hello, cleveland. Okay, so Now we're cooking with butter if we remember all of our rituals ruined. We're basically 12 inches for what we care about And turning that from 12 inches to 18 inches is uh, it's real good It's real good Um, both in his ability to say dish out d6 mortals at a longer range to pull somebody around at a longer range Now you can reach out At somebody 18 inches away pull him two d6 inches forward on average He pulls him into range for a second or for sorry for his spell. He wants to cast for a sort of second thing He's doing in the hero phase so Uh, great stuff there. Love that ability and then he has devolved Uh, and It's a spell where he throws it on an enemy unit within 18 inches and then he rolls 3d6 against their bravery Which is the good version of against their bravery and if he beats it He halves the move they're trying to make which is normal move or unretreat or charge. So Pretty cool Matt, what do you think about this guy the great brave shaman? How's this guy? Is this guy making your the cut? Yes, he's definitely an auto include I'm taking two maybe three of these guys in the list because The 18 inches thing is not only just on the board. It's also off the board. It applies to off the board. So essentially Um, let's say someone goes, okay your ritual ruins only 12 inches So I can just put my hero or you know Unit away from the 12 inch of the board edge and I just go 18 inches and 18 inches is just massive because you know The only way you're ever good getting away from this is like if you're just at the center of the board Right, you have to be actually really Tight in the center of the board to ignore this because it's it's you know a total of Uh 36 inches of the board space is being covered by this when it when it's reaching out from both edges It's wild how much of the board that actually covers the board is only Uh 44 inches Across from top to bottom Yeah, okay So I'm actually shocked if they didn't make it more expensive because of that but like, you know It's going good He's perfect to me at 95 points because he could just be off the board and just do shenanigans like that. Yeah Love are we able to double up on the same? Okay, you cannot use the same. You cannot use the same ritual more than once. All right. Thank god. All right There is a command trait though that lets you do a second ritual of ruin without taking mortal wins But yeah, interesting Yeah, this guy really stood out looking at him for all kind for all the reason you guys just covered Yeah, it seemed like he would be one you'd want to take multiple times in the list. Yeah. Yeah, he's he's amazing. Um So I have a bunch of brave shamans in my army. I just like the model There's been a guy I have a couple different versions. This guy's has been different versions of him since the 90s But I have like two extras of these guys I put in paint stripper, you know years ago and then stripped in there upstairs and like my utility sink They're just they've just been literally sitting there for the past five six years On the the little shelf of the utility sink and I was like I might have to get those back out and finish And maybe I could go for the full six pack just to make sure all right Uh, okay Let's talk about some gore Matt I'm sure to let you let you talk about gore people can see the stats on screen The important part is don't don't look at that five up save that it says in the wheel If there are with shields, they have a save characteristic of four up Like many things we're going to see here. They have plus one to run in charge Uh, because that's what their musician does and like many many units in this army We're going to see have that wonderful musician that's plus one to run in charge And like many units we're going to see they can also rally on a five up with their standard bear Okay, so talk to me about gore and and these guys because I think these guys are fantastic Yeah gore's went for being one of the worst units of the last book to one of being one of the best units in this book Because not only do they make things fight last on a three up when they charge you and they just have to outnumber the unit So 10 of them or let's say 20 or 30 of them just have to charge like a monster or a smaller unit And then not three of them makes fight last That's nutty and then with all heard this is where the synergy comes from You run 30 gores and all heard now you have a five up rally And then they can bring break d3 plus three and if you give them shields The shields last book used to just give them plus like you know adds plus one to save right now This changes the save characteristic from a five up to a four up So then if you all out defense if you save stack this you know gore's it will most of time be on a three up save Which is insane for you know, like shirtless beast men wear nothing but like tribal clothing. It's like I wouldn't be surprised if this you know went up in points because this This is going to definitely like you know be a staple in less at the moment I guess you know, I guess I've talked to you know enough about it. What do you think about it? Tyler? Yeah, man. It looks great. Yeah, really stood out 110 models the fact that you could Would you find it very attractive to try msu where you're getting multiple cracks at the apple on the three up? Yes Yeah, there's definitely there's definitely like there's definitely builds where you can run a lot of msu And with the artifact that you could summon a unit of on gore's or gore's The greyhorn trumpet you just always summon gore's and then you know, they're just everywhere And if you put them in the glacial veterans battalion Even with shields they actually don't even though they have a little less attacks than like Double-paired hand axes they actually can fight with the glacial veterans battalion if you run 30 of them And especially there'll be a red one round two. That's just a lot of attacks Yeah, they're on the downside. Oh good. Good. Please. Oh, sorry. Yeah, they remind me of zongors from the last book where it's like, you know Where like there's just this brick especially because bounty hunters is gone This will definitely be like a staple in all her lists Then maybe you want to take 20 or even 30 gore's and other lists too because it's just so hard to remove Yep, I just a couple final points. I want to make hungor's There's their their main weakness for such a great unit now is still the 32 mil base Right, but again, so that as as mentioned the glacial veterans unit does does cover that that problem to a large degree So that's out there. That's something you have to think about whether or not you want to go that direction If you're meaning for them to fight in any reasonable way um Hey, tyler remember when uh Units that could spam Making things go last on a three up Uh caused a four or five rounds of successive nerfs To the to the thing because it was just too broken to live Remember that It remember. Yeah, maybe 2019 so around there. Yeah. Yeah. Now we're doing it for 110 points In a spammable battle line unit not 400 point demon heroes Hmm So, you know, hey, why not I guess there's multiple ways to get some always struck less from this book. Yeah Oh, yeah, giving it out like candy, baby. So at any rate, uh That they're good. They're they're good Yeah, and I think a lot of uh chaos books will actually coalition or ally these in to their lists because they're really 110 points So other than the MSU is the main way you're thinking about these as like a 30 brick anvil get them on an objective Are you thinking about them as potentially the plus two to charge? Uh commensurate option like what would one of the main uses you're thinking about with this, you know, um My main my main use is there's probably just gonna be an anvil Like I don't really like rely on them for like damage per state even though you could tech into damage They're just there to sit on an objective and just be really difficult for your opponent to remove and just imagining like But I read the rule that they make you look by last of the three up you ever been in a mosh pit I guess that's like I guess that's what being charged by 30 gore's like you're just stuck in this mosh pit and You can't like get anywhere. So yeah, that's the value. I see in the unit pretty impressive uh, it's yeah fascinating to me the the How how the world wheels and wings? Yeah, I but I think it's interesting to know that they do have multiple uses I can't see the msu build. I can't see the charge and attack off the the ambush off the board edge What I want to say build I can't see the 30 brick on an anvil in all her just being like very very hard to shift Because they just keep rejenning, right? I think all those are valid depending on the rest of what you've chose to support them And build the list around right like they feel like they can do a couple different roles and that's strong um Okay Gareth, I appreciate that. That's something you can't picture. Uh, but it's But you know, we all contain multitudes my friend. Okay besty gores uh Two wounds I think we should just start there Four up save seven bravery. Oh one more thing. I want to say boy. These beasts been got more brave Remember how their bravery used to be utter crap now. It's like average. So that's nice Uh, that's pretty good So yes that gores are on a six bravery now and then best scores on a seven. So nice stuff And best scores actually have a couple different interesting rules tech things going on There are two wound models making two attacks each on three threes neg one one They get at they get to add one to the attacks characteristic of their melee weapons If they're within three inches of an enemy unit that receive the all out defense command In the same phase What an interesting fun trigger for plus one attack like you go aod I go Free a you know different version of all that attack effectively Um, I like that a lot. Yeah, I'm honestly running better round two. That's that's pretty sweet You're gonna probably want to do aod And round two if these guys are in your face and then all of a sudden they're swinging a lot more like Now, uh, and then they have to be she'll charge subtract one from wound rolls for attacks that target this unit If the attack was made with a missile weapon by an enemy unit that received the unleash howl command in the same phase Fun because then they're neg one to hit and neg one to wound effectively Because unleash always puts the neg one on there, of course Fun stuff. I think overall still, you know, got that four up save. They are 220 points Uh, so they're not cheap. You are for 10 of them. It's 20 wounds because they are two wounds now Uh, and they are battle line If the general is a beast lord or a great brave shaman Okay So they're they're still pretty choppy, but i'm not sure they're my go-to hammer. Maybe maybe not Uh I don't see as many of the synergies with them But matt what's what's your feeling on these guys? So what I first, uh, was looking at the unit I was kind of like down on it for a while because I have 90 bestigores and I was just like thinking Dang, I want to take a lot of bestigores, but I have to like, you know before the show I was like, you know sitting and starring on them for a while and after talking to um, one of my other friends that played visa castle and brian cox um, I actually think that they're They're a hybrid unit essentially they're not like an obvious hammer They're not like they don't lead into totally being an anvil like 30 goresville and all heard But they're a very multi-purpose unit like I think for example A good use of bestigores would be charging a block of 10 bestigores with another hammer in your book like a gorgon And then it's like you ask your opponent. Okay. If both these units charge you you want to pop all out the fence It effectively If they don't effectively gives your units an extra rent and while bestigores won't be doing like, you know The most killing with two attacks each threes and threes I think they're there to support the other hammers and because they're a four up save and a five a brally They're like they're not the easiest to remove I mean, I don't think maybe the most Bestigores I will take in a um unit is probably like 20 and I could see why they didn't allow them to benefit from all heard Because 20 because 20 bestigores and all heard would have been really oppressive to deal with but I think you know They're definitely not useless as I thought they were when I was first reading the scroll I think it just maybe needs to go down and points a little bit And then it'll make sense in list but as of right now, you know, maybe something I It's hard to fit in list but there's definitely like tech with them. Like there's definitely play Yeah, I think they're interesting. I agree. I think the problem right now is completely the points I think their points are just a little bit too high when we compare against the other hammer options I agree. They do feel a little bit a little bit hybridy But the fact that they can't benefit from like the all heard regen and miss out on some of those kind of things It's it's problematic to me. I think most of time. I mean, we're gonna get to to to bulgur to minotaurs here in a second Um, so I don't think they're bad by any stretch. I agree with you I think the bones are here and if these guys went down to like 200 190, you know somewhere in that space Okay Okay, like now now I feel like we'd be talking and we'd be a little bit more competitive or interesting option Right. So I I think they're just a way too bit too expensive right now given when compared to the other hammers No Yeah, I think my biggest mistake when I first looked at that scroll was I tried to compare them to chaos warriors But then when I realized that they were like a hybrid unit It made me appreciate like the role of that what that unit could be if the points were a little lower Yep, and I think with those kinds of jack of all trades units you really they they have to be priced right because otherwise It's always better to take the strong in roll version, right? Yeah Okay, cool. Let's keep moving Angkor Uh five up save five bravery. There's the there's the bravery. We know and love Still they got more brave. I think we're like bravery four before everybody moved up a pip I think Uh, they still get plus one to run in charge and rally on a five and all that kind of stuff The important part about Angkor the only reason you take these dudes Uh, it's for fleet of hoof in the combat phase when you pick this unit to fight You can say that it will evade the enemy if you do so this unit retreats Instead of fighting Angkor are 10 for 80 points. They are battle line base Um, they are exactly what you think they are evasive annoying chaff Right, that is the idea of them And they have moved seven inches. They're they're fast little boys So I'm up save. It's not bad. That's the baseline So, yeah, they're fine. Yeah, they're cheaper than 80. That's why I kind of like them at 80 points Yeah, that's first exactly dude. Yeah, first of all comes mine. Yeah, they don't fly a little slower, but a little cheaper Uh having played furies a lot over the last two weekends Uh, I could definitely see value a lot of value in Angkor so I mean the ability to just retreat on an activation is a really potent ability because it gets you it make it often makes your Your opponent make bad decisions and what they have to end the priorities of how they activate. That's that's all same as a scaven player who Uh, you know has this trick on all of your heroes and you know as somebody who's played against Super annoying seraphon when they had this trick with their skinks automatically, right? I mean it's It's It's a really interesting way it affects the the combat phase even for a junk unit like this and the fact these guys are cheap as chips It says yeah, okay. I can see him in there Potentially good ambushes as well where they could come on with a seven up Charge potentially with the reroll as well and then did the retreat trick Sure to just walk on to it like a farther away objective if they need to get deep in Uh, yeah Yeah, it could be a number of little yeah combo plays with them and like I said messing up activations. Yeah, so I dig these guys like seem like you'd have a roll for this one if not multiple units potentially Yeah, they're definitely a staple. Yeah, and remember these guys do benefit from the um from the return as well So like as long as they don't get wiped and they can walk away or something like that So even if they take some impact hits or something like that, you know They don't generally care like they'll they'll walk away and be able to regen some models up and things like that. So Very cool. Uh, all right the raiders Uh six up save otherwise the same profile. They got raider bows, of course 12 inch range two attacks force force no brand one damage Uh, hey raider bows. What's going on guys? What is going on? Well, they definitely made the unit a lot better Yes 12 inch range homies. You need to take a look over at goblin town Those little morons figured out the secret tech on 20 inch range Uh crappy short bows. Maybe the the ongore need to go raid Uh, the the goblin shoot us and get eight eight inch ranges or you know, plus eight inches to their range That kind of stuff drives me crazy. I hate that goblins have a 20 inch range on their shot. It's dumb Anyways, these guys are 12 They have a thing called hidden volley What's hidden volley do well once per battle the start of your movement phase if this unit is in reserve You can pick a point on the battlefield edge And say that this unit will unleash a hidden volley if you do so this unit can shoot in that phase But it must target the closest enemy unit to that point If more than one enemy unit Is tied to be the closest you can pick which unit is the target Uh, okay neat You can they can shoot when they don't even exist on the board It's fun Yeah, I've seen some people Not necessarily freaking out but concerned about this. So matt how Real is this anywhere from like i'm going to pull necklace toward me and shoot him with 60 or you know ongore raiders or like is this a real strategy in your mind I think I mean maybe not techless for example because he will definitely survive that By thing if you combo this with blood taunt, let's say you get the galation champion Usually galation champions on a four or five up save you pull them out of you know Being within one inch of a battle line unit and then you give them some pepper As I always like to say and then that's if you're taking like Let's say 20 30 maybe even 40 of these guys That's near to like 60 to 100 something shots, which is like really good on fours and fours Yeah, I mean 12 inch range is limiting but you're also shooting off the board once per game So like it's really good to like Snipe something and you know even though it's the range of this unit is the 18 inches now it's 12 But they're definitely priced at being able to essentially Double shoot once per game and that's extremely valuable for their points I'm shocked. They're not more extensive than 110 And also the nice thing about them is that if you're taking a unit of ongore's battle line These guys can become battle line kind of like how you take wardens and settles together so Yeah Here's my question with this rule and how this works Okay I'm going to reread this Once for battle at the start of your movement phase if this unit is in reserve You can pick a point on the battlefield edge and say this unit will unleash a hidden volley Okay, fine enough. So I've picked a point on the battlefield edge Somewhere around the rectangle If you do so this unit can shoot in that phase, but it must target the closest enemy unit to that point What's the range of that? closest In a unit to that point like I'm shooting I've picked that point Do I use my normal radar bow range? Do I have to be do they have to be within 12 inches of the point or am I just targeting the closest enemy? Like I think it's the closest enemy to that point is 30 inches away Do I still get to shoot them? Where am I measuring from? I this definitely needs to be clarified But the way I've read it is that essentially they could shoot from anywhere on the board because it says just pick a point Not like pick something in range, but obviously there could be different interpretations of what that means So I think maybe that that definitely needs an FAQ or something It definitely does because like as you were saying that sickness maximus in the chat is like it's the range of their bows But then I know for but nowhere on there does it say they have to be within 12 inches Nowhere in there does it say use this point you picked on the edge as the origin point of their shooting Which is what it would need to say. It just says you shoot them Right, you've got to pick the closest people. That's the restriction But if I pick this point over here and the closest guy is 30 inches away technically right now I've satisfied the requirements for this thing and I can just unleash baby Um, so off board they have super goblin bow tech. Yes. Thank you freddie You you made you got there for the joke before I did that's what I was going to say They stole the goblin bow tech, but it's only when they're off board Uh, yeah, so that definitely needs an FAQ because it's like how how What what is happening there? Of course? We would mess this up the first time would because we're deciding to let people shoot who aren't on the board Uh, this is the first step by the way. Tyler. Do you know why I'm so excited about this ability? Why I love seeing this ability printed in a book. I'm glad you're back So I feel like tom lions has taken over hosting this show. That was a very tom lions argument But let's let's go on here. You're fine. Do you know why I'm so excited about this ability Is that Okay, because tyler, this is the first step to how we get orbital orbital bombardment from Uh, sigmaron Okay, like storm cast have should have had orbital bombardment from ever from forever ago. Okay. Yeah, and but but they were never They were afraid to have some kind of shooting happening from off board Right, right. Yeah, but you're right 100% But we needed the ungors have to crawl So that somebody can walk so that in 4.0 storm cast will be just like dropping lightning bolts from heaven All day bomb bar the yoan jackson is listening. He's he's in heaven right now. Just thinking about it. He's he's in he's in his ear Absolutely. Yeah And everybody who's saying I get why it's the bow range Or like I get the argument. Okay, I I understand I'm just saying the ability doesn't say so. It just says you're effectively using some kind of different mechanism to shoot right and The way they need to clarify that to avoid the interpretation. I just gave you And and that reasonable people could assume is how it works is to FAQ it Okay, when rules are unclear, you can't logic your way out of it. It's unclear Reasonable people will come to a disagreement. That's why we FAQ it Okay Okay, tom move on I'm just the only reason why I feel like it's you know with how they worded point You could pick anywhere on the battlefield because there's some Similarly worded abilities like let's say with like a storm cast The guys with the banners that could do water wounds It says just pick a point that you don't have to measure range So that's where I'm coming from but definitely this needs an FAQ. Yep. Absolutely. I agree with your mind. Yeah All right, and I can't wait for the eventual orbital orbital bombardments to start. I'm very excited Uh, okay. Oh, yeah. Now we're now we're at my guy. All right. We've left behind this the weedy section of the book Now it's time to get into the meat all right Truly my favorite hero Uh, and that is Uh, the doom bull. I've all I've always loved the doom bull another hero I have way too many of because I just keep painting very different doom bulls because I just think they're like the coolest dudes Move seven eight wounds four up save seven bravery. He's got his little he's got his little horns. He's got his axe Good stuff Uh, when he charges he does some mortal wounds got a two up d three mortal wound impact hit He's got his blood greed on any attack of a Unmodified hit of a six He does mortal wounds equal to the damage of the weapon and the attack sequence and so either two or three So nice stuff there. Not that he makes a lot of attacks, but it's fun And uh slaughterers call Okay, let's get into it. Here we go Uh, sickness says vince was also hoping for storm cast tanks You're absolutely right. I was I still am okay Slaughterers call you can use this command ability at the start of the combat phase The unit uh, this unit must issue the command and the unit that receives the command must be a friendly war herd Unit within 12 inches of an enemy unit and more than three inches from all enemy units If you do so you must attempt to charge with that unit Hello Third roll at the charge. That's right re-rolling. Well, you know, you got your charge. You got your re-roll Let's say just do this again. Maybe we couldn't get there because we failed. Let's try it one more time Okay Uh, I love it. I love it. It's great Uh And and obviously uh bulgars have things they do when they charge as well, but matt What do you think about the doom bull? You like this guy? You like this ability? I love it. Honestly This is my favorite tech piece in the entire book because I've always loved bulgars And usually in the local so-called scene. I always just every time I roll like a fat charge roll I always scream something stupid like boc charges It's kind of become like my catchphrase saying so the best combo with this Thing is the fight last artifact Because the fact that you can charge in both player turns So the way that you could play with this thing is that you position the doom bull By a unit that you think is going to get charged like let's say one of your expensive hammers And usually everything in this book is like kind of squishy So you wait for your opponent to charge in like let's say with a ma crush Okay, cool. The doom bull doesn't get charged and then Um start of combat after they do they do their sort of combat you pop. Okay I'm going to charge you and then you charge them and let's say if you position the doom bull, right? He's like he just needs a close enough charge And this is why I will always take bloodthirsty triumph because of the doom bull and then doom bull charges And then on two up you'll fight last Which is like fantastic and then they do mortal wounds on the impact hits So it's not only you take a bunch of mortal wounds as we will find out with you know The other units like bulgars and doom bulls you will also fight last and this book loves to abuse debuffs So it definitely gives a lot of protection to your hammers and other things in the book and to me Yeah, this along with him and the brace shaman is they're the best galation champions in this book hands down 100 agreed What you what you looking at? How are we fighting last what it's the magic item? Magic item. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That makes that when you charge on a two up you fight. Let's you up. Oh, yeah Yeah, yeah, okay. Pick one of me in it Okay, love it. Yep. Very cool. Love this tech. I agree with you You can give a unit a third bite at the apple to charge you can charge with yourself or another unit off turn You can trigger the fight last you can trigger the mortal wounds from the warhurd charge or from your own alpha charge You can uh, you can ignore unleash else Because they can unleash on you if you charge them at the start of the combat phase Like the the the options on this Are just unlimited and I love it You know one of the classic problems with bull goers We're just keeping a move and like even if they got into combat and happened to kill what they were fighting Then they're just like standing there hanging out like dorks Right. Nope. Now enemy charge phase keep going boys. Let's go. Let's roll Right. Yeah, it's great. It's great. Um Uh, yes, uh, josh what they do they they will both charge Because those aren't triggered off of a single thing. So they would both happen Yeah, I also love the doom bull because he has a lot of wounds where like he's really good for the rituals of ruin Where it's like risky to do on a brave shaman who has five wounds eight wounds. It's kind of like a sweet spot on him the rituals Uh And then uh, the other question with this that obviously is probably an faq is slaughterers call Um, if I run or retreat can I charge? If I get the slaughterers call It says you must attempt to charge with that unit Yeah Again, there's no there's no easy answer to this if I run or retreat can I do I then get to break the rules? And and charge Anyways, like is this is this quasi run in charge or quasi retreat in charge Right. I don't know the answer needs an faq Yeah But hey if it gets ruled yes Thumbs up and this is even better than all the things we just talked about There's a lot of movement like jank that you can like do with this But I mean even if they do have to queue it. This is still one of the best combos in the game Like we're not Yeah, I think that's my favorite of the nights so far man. That's amazing. Isn't that great love it I'm so happy the doom bull is is like playable and interesting and and viable and techy and dust school stuff Like you may not feel terrible that strike at the opening on this guy fighting the hero phase You know might actually do some work. So yeah, I mean, I wish you were a little better in combat But he was better on commandability. So I'm just like, you know what that's worth. It's a me Yeah, he's he's like, okay. He's okay. Right. Like yeah, it's fine Um What's that? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. I should have said his points. Yes. I apologize. Yes. He's 160 Yeah, it's me totally worth it Okay uh I love that multiple people by the way in the comments are giving me their arguments on opposite sides for why you can or can't run in charge like Guys It needs an FAQ like you can again, you can hit me with all the logic you want, man It's the roards aren't written on the page Like and that's the only thing that's the only source of truth Um, we can't appeal to a higher power here. There's no divine command theory These rules just come from from someone. That's it. Somebody has to give an answer So that's what that's what happens Okay, bulgur, uh Axe and shield pair axes the big axe you're taking the big axe I think you're taking the big axe personally that'd be my vote, but hey, you do you Uh, and and I'm doing that mainly because the the regular axe and shield and the the pair of axes hit on fours And I'm like, well, I'm out I'm out right there I'll take the two attacks on threes over almost any number of attacks on fours As we learned when we looked at the exalted hero of chaos who doubled his attack number But by moving to fours, he literally does less than half the damage with double the attacks It's just like it doesn't work man The math is so much more terrible like threes and threes is a catastrophically better profile than fours and fours I haven't mentioned that yet. Like this book obviously absolutely hates minuses to hit Oh, sure. There is still a lot of four up to hit in this book. Yeah Yep, uh so But at any rate they get the plus one to run, uh, sorry plus one to charge. It's not run. It's just charge Uh, but they do have that. Um, they uh Uh Their standard bearer does a fairly irrelevant thing that can sometimes yield some mortal wounds. It's fine Um, when they charge for every model in the unit on a two up, you do a mortal wound That's how their charge works and they have the blood greed where if they roll a six to hit It's mortal wounds go straight through which is cool Uh, again another reason I like the big the big giant axe Although if you wanted to take a bunch of the paired cleaving axes just to get as many dice as possible So you're fishing for two mortals. I get one That that that would be the viable reason to go the other direction I'd need to crack that out mathematically and see what happens Um, I suspect if you're just trying to fish the mortals The paired cleaving axes are your best bet because then you know, let's say unit of three You're going to pull 13 attacks. So on average you get four mortals out of that as opposed to the Seven dice you get with only three mortals out of the man splitter axe. So No, there you go That's probably how the math on that works But yeah, cool stuff, um bulgur Are 195 points for three in their battle line if the generals in doom bull Uh Matt you're a fan of bulgur. You said it hit me. Yes, I love bulgur's These guys are the love of my life I've always loved running them last book and now they've gotten even better and even though 195 is a little costly They definitely hit at their price point and they're definitely costing because they can charge in both player turns with the doom Bull like that's just crazy synergy and I maybe we didn't point this out already but the banner gives re-roll On like the charge roll. So most of the time if you're charging with like six bulgur's You're just on average you're doing five or six mortal wounds without re-roll on the charge So that's really nutty and then if you're charging in somebody else's Um start of combat cool. Not only like let's say if the doom bull charges in port I mean, yeah, the doom bull charges in you fight last and then all these other bulgur's are just like slamming into you And then you're just you're taking like five or six mortal wounds or if you're taking a unit of nine bulgur's That's about nine mortal wounds So yeah, and then I think um all the weapon options Um, they actually all have play like it's it surprised me because the last book really didn't But this has a lot of play because the because you're doing mortal wounds on the amount of damage that weapon does um A pair double paired hand axes are really nice for you know, just fishing for six is it's just a weight of attacks Sure great access. Yeah the math the the math real quick it looks like the Uh, two attacks three threes minus one three damage Are just slightly better than fishing for sixes on mortals for for reference like like about a point six I have I have a I I want to shout out bartek in the chat Who was nice enough to send me a spreadsheet with all the damage calculations in it. Yeah, this is an interesting one to look at Yeah, that I promptly then forgot to load into the presentation. I am very sorry You did an amazing job. I want to shout out bartek who posted that in a os coaches Go check out a os coaches discord if you want to see it I was actually just like pouring over this thing before and and it's absolutely amazing He did an incredible job putting together this spreadsheet. Uh, so thank you bartek. Um If you want to see that but yes there the it depends a lot on the particular save Uh, and so when you look at the this sort of damage profile the dual Uh, well, it depends on again What does the save look like the better the save? The dual axes are better the lower the save Right, the the great axes end up being slightly better if they can if they can cleave off all of the The um the armor save then you end up getting slightly more damage out of them So like it depends on what they're the base save of the target unit is So and matt what are the base size for these guys? They're on 50 millimeter bases So they all used to be one inch reach last book, but now they're all base two inch reach So most of the time you actually don't even need the deletion there in the battalion You can actually get them all stuck in which you know to me with six bulgur's are like I think six bulgur's is the hardest hitting thing in this book I mean unless I messed up the math or anything But you know, they're definitely can't openers as I like to call them And you know, there's there is a debate between taking great axes or paired double weapons because you know They have similar they have the same brand and then You know, even though great axes have less attacks They hit on threes instead of hitting on fours a double paired hand axes And I actually really like the shields on bulgur's because even though the shields gives you a little less attack Um It's three you get you still get three attacks each with a paired hand axe instead of fours four attacks And then your safe characteristic also changes from a five up to a four up So if you want a tanky brick that could just dish out mortal wounds while they like hold the line and fight Um, yeah shield shields can make bulgur's be on a four up or three up save any safe stack them enough So they're all really like last book Um, they're you always just went in great axes because they just had a lot more rend But now every weapon option has a choice. So I do like that Yeah yep And these guys are big damage by the way like you're absolutely right like they are No joke. These are big damage. They are not The biggest damage in the book Let me say that Uh But they are big damage. There is actually a winner who beats them on on the damage profile Uh in in melee, so but we'll get there We'll get there. All right Uh, cool Um But that being said that's I mean when you count in their mortal wounds, you're absolutely right That pushes them way over the top like just on raw what they actually put out on the attack Somebody else slightly beats them slightly But uh when it comes to to when you figure in their mortal wounds from the charge they they go way back up above Okay Gorgon Oh, I'm here, baby. I'm in for it the gorgon 16 wounds five up save seven bravery He's got his big butchering blade started seven and go to four if he's wounded fours and twos Neg one neg two neg three over the course of the game And then his slavering maw two attacks fours and twos neg one neg two neg three d6 damage still d6 Couldn't get that d3 plus three baked in here, huh? Couldn't couldn't get there. Okay Uh, that's fine Such as life he can swallow three models whole. He's just got a roll greater than their wound characteristic again. Teach this to the giants, please Uh, so that's nice, uh, and he can feast on flesh. He has his monster's rampage still So, uh, improve the rend characteristic of this unit's melee weapons by one until the end of the following combat phase So one two three becomes two three four depending on obviously the uh current battle round Uh, and if any enemy models are slain made by La la la la made by attacks made by this unit You can heal three wounds allocated this unit after all of its attacks have been resolved I should state that when he eats people he also heals He's got quite a lot of self healing going on which is fun. Mm-hmm Uh, the gorgon is battle line and quake fray and the gorgon is 240 points He's got a low save but did we get there? Here's the question Did we get there? Did we actually finally make a monster with a five up save where the points are accurate And this guy's appealing to run like did did we do it? What do you think what do you think? I definitely think so Like I usually I always thought the same way about like most non hero monsters in the game like just don't like really cut it But this guy actually cuts it because he used to wound up threes And yeah, even though they made his hit he used to hit on threes, but now he is on some force That's a little worse, but he now he always wounds on twos and here's how his like He here's how his healing works is that like every time he consumes a model like let's say he picks three models He heals based off of their wounds characteristics. Let's say if he's fighting annihilators He rolled I rolled three uh Three four ups or something like that. He's healing nine wounds plus if you do his monstrous action another three And also the neat thing about his monstrous action Is that you don't actually need to be in combat for you for him to pop this monstrous action He could pop this monstrous action to get an extra rend and heal You know at the end of the charge phase and then you combo him because he has the water keyword With a doom bull and then you just make the war you just make the gorgon charge And now this gorgon just rend three healing in your lines like he doesn't even have to be in combat for that to happen So that like that's a really like neat tech. I like that timing on it as well after his attacks are resolved on the healing That's nice, right? You know, it's kind of like some regeneration that you could get Maybe before it gets hit again or whatnot. So yeah pretty cool Yeah, and also he combos really well with one of the spells we were talking about earlier, um There's the strangle boards if you can't the the no pile in spell If you make a unit not be able to pile in gorgon fights He takes out three units and then they can't pile it and then you just break coherency Absolutely massive. Yeah, this guy's a star drake rolling around Going to 40 points and we play in the star drake throughout 2019 Like and how good that is and and how you know viable it is right now with oh and others You know, you'll see every once in a while. So I love this guy actually at 240 Yeah, my my only downside with him is the same downside. He's always had I think a 240 is great I think he hits the offensive bar. I I love that as you mentioned. Yes, he does combo with the doom bull for the combat charge Um, my only problem with him remains the same problem. I've always had And that's he moves eight inches Yeah, but that's why you were able to ambush him for you know To give him plus but a charge or you take slight fright to give him plus three moves So I guess that kind of makes up for it. Yep And then um, yeah, you kind of do need a hero to babysit him like a little bit But that's why I like taking a doom bull with tunnel master a trick that I learned from one of my friends Shane Where it's like you just teleport the doom bull around wherever this duke the good this gorgon comes out of the ambush And then suddenly, you know, he's just a menace Especially if he's hitting on braze instead of fours. Yeah, I love him. He's fantastic It also He heals a lot. So yeah, he does and you're absolutely right. It changes the world if he's got a babysitter who can keep him in all out and When he's on and keeps him on a reroll of late Right when if he's coming in off ambush. Yeah, absolutely Okay Hey, thanks chris. Yeah, we hit the 100k. Hey, I didn't even say it yet But you know like yeah subscribe do all those things we got there everybody and that's thanks to all of you So thank you all for watching every week. It's an amazing milestone Um, so I'm I'm super jazzed Uh, and and I'm I'm very and eternally grateful to everybody who watches and subscribes and does all those things. So thank you all Uh, okay dragon ogres The bitty let's talk about shaggy the shag off first, of course, he's ten wounds, which is the downside Because that makes him the worst number of wounds Uh, which is always unfortunate. Nobody nobody likes to be ten wounds. But here we are eight inch move four up save seven bravery Um, still a monster So that's nice Uh at the He is the uh, he's a wizard a single cast wizard. He has some attacks. They're they're not bad Um, like he's he's okay in combat. He's okay. I think that's the best way I can say it. Um, he's okay That's I'm gonna stick to okay And and and they're uh And and we'll just call it that he is a single cast wizard Each time he's affected by a spell or an end the spell you can roll down a four up He ignores it. So we got a little four up spell ignore Uh at the beginning of the combat phase we'll dive for this unit on a two plus You can heal d three wounds allocated this unit in addition to the end of the combat phase You'll a dive for each enemy unit within three inches of any friendly units with this ability on a two up That unit suffers d three mortal wounds. I hate this ability Why does this have to trigger twice at different times? Right, uh I guess they're both at the end of the combat phase, but like why is it just One thing why does it just state it all cleanly like roll it two up for this unit? And then the enemies and blah blah blah, but that's sure. Yeah That's like, but they're both two up to d three mortals. That's cool or d three healing d three mortals And then his spell is summon lightning Uh casting value seven a big range of 24 inches But again the thunderscore and spells on the actual spell are all really good and probably we're gonna cast But you can pick d three friendly thunderscore and units and heal d three wounds allocated to them It's not bad But I imagine I'm probably gonna be going for like hail swarm or other things on the list over that But hey, here we are Uh, and then let's just let's just roll into the dragon ogres themselves still five wounds on a four up save six bravery They are elite so hey good stuff there Uh At the end of the combat phase we'll dive for this unit for every two up blah blah blah So it's beneath the tempest again And then storm range if this unit made a charge move in the same turn If the unmodified hit roll for an attack made by this unit six that attack wounds the target automatically So they have the night haunt auto pasta two wounds not mortal wounds Just wounds okay The Now these guys ain't cheap That is a thing The shagoth is two 75 275, yeah, he's he ain't cheap and the dragon ogres are two 25 uh, so Matt what's your take on our dragon ogre contingent of the book? Yeah, um, it's definitely shocking that he went up about like 100 120 points from his last iteration He does hit harder and actually he heals a lot more reliably But I think he's definitely overpriced and they probably priced him this way not only because of his spells And just because he hits harder He can also heal off board when he does the rituals of ruin Like there's nothing that stops that because it doesn't say that when he heals He has to be on the board So because the back he can just heal on a two up d3 He's actually probably the best recipient for doing a ritual of ruin But because you know, he's all this great utility That's probably why he's overcosted and maybe I have the suspicion that Some of our points cost for these units are definitely because of how strong or how taken the how about how often The shagoth was taken in boc list, you know in the last book So I didn't Yeah, I think he's paying the last book tax. I agree. I think both these units are paying a little bit of the last Yeah, dragon ogres are definitely paying the last book tax because they used to be 125 points before I mean now they're Then they'd be going to 145 and now they're 225 or they pretty much have the same similar profile They all went up one damage, but like you know and they heal a little better They're still on a fork save and they can't rally. So they're definitely they definitely got weaker from like their last iteration um The dragon ogre shagoth, is that our only option for thunderscore and wizard? Yes, there's no other option. Okay, this is the guy Yeah, it's just too many points. That's brutal 275 for this guy I don't know. That just feels terrible to me Yeah, I mean, here's what I'll say with these guys I think here we've hit another one of those situations where like the bones of this are perfectly fine I don't think there's anything innately wrong with the shagoth of the dragon ogres I'm glad to see the two damage base on the on the doggers for their storm forged weapons You know again these guys are each swinging around a storm cast hero profile Five attacks three threes neg one two damage because that's just the only profile we make now um But like good fine great, you know what I mean? It's all fine. It's just I think they are A bit too high right now Um, I would love to see these guys come down I think the shagoth has farther to drop than the doggers. I don't think I don't think the doggers with their with their new profile are horribly overcosted, but they are high I think the shagoth is Overcosted. I like him. I love his spell lore. I like what he's doing. I like his abilities 275 is too much. That's that's just what it comes down to Yeah, they definitely look less overcosted than he does to me I mean, I obviously think about like current up hunters with sizes or swords which are 250 But there are a three plus base safe and they've got a way to do mortal winds and Ways to get models brought back and blah blah blah like yeah like comparatively these guys are definitely a little overpriced But anyway, they're interesting like a little cheaper. They'd be pretty cool Yeah, I mean the bones are there again if these guys drop some number of points They're going to start showing up in lists again. That's my that's my statement on these dudes And again, like we haven't seen a bad war scroll which makes me happy Right if points are a little high as I said at the beginning It's pretty easy to make those adjustments and things come in line And that's why I think the internal balance on this book is still pretty good because there's A lot of this is synergy tech a lot of this is combos and points are easily adjusted things Right as long as the scrolls aren't trash or way busted Then we're in a good spot and I haven't seen any of that happening so far Right Yeah Plus three to Or the the bonus to casting rolls. That's beast of chaos. Okay beast of chaos hero. Yeah, they could take it Yeah, he could take the twist. He could take twist spray, which makes the shot off like, you know valuable It's just They're definitely paying for the sins of the last book and but you know When they when they decreased the points a little bit As you know, ben says they'll be definitely be seen a lot more Yes Absolutely Okay The jabber slice I don't think he's very good. Anybody want to defend this guy? But that's it. That's what I'm gonna say about it. I think it's the best rolls in the book Yeah, they sadly made him worse from the last book, which is kind of disappointing and they made him more expensive Well, yeah Like his monstrous aura rampage thing is Uh Like not very good. He's not very good He is To do 160 points I like I don't know what I'm doing and stop calling like I get it the jabber slice And and and the vorpal sword and snicker snack. I understand but like, uh, you can't call something a vorpal claw With no special abilities that's on threes threes. No rend one damage That's that's nothing Um So Yeah, oh and he doesn't fly anymore. Thank you bar tech. Yeah, he doesn't that's gotta be just a miss. He doesn't have fly anymore I didn't even notice that. Yeah, I Uh, that that's gotta be like an FAQ We missed we forgot to print fly on the war scroll like that that has to be the model literally has wings on him So I I think he will fly I joke, but maybe they don't want to produce more of this model. I don't know I would be I'll be honest with you. I would love to see this thing get thrown in the bin It's a pretty ugly heinous old model Like it's I would love to see the reimagined version of this thing Like I'm not asking to get rid of the jabber slice. I'm saying hey, this was a good opportunity to make a new sweet monster Um, you know, yeah Uh, anyways Yeah, no most interesting is is the monsters rampage, but it's not good enough especially that it's only hero Like I don't yeah, and with all the it's it's so close and so yeah, like you got to put this guy And he just does no damage none As Bartek said, he does an average of a one point. He does an average of 1.7 damage to a four up save Okay, yeah, uh, all right, but now let's talk about a guy I'm super excited about and that is the cockatrice I did not expect this guy to get more interesting to me when he lost his shooting attack and yet somehow We got there All right, the cockatrice so he's got his little beak and his little talons their attacks They do damage, you know, the two damage base with no rend whatever whatever. He's a 12 inch fly move. He does still fly So congratulations on to that cockatrice. He had to keep his wings six up save a wound six bravery Not a monster Not a monster important to know Uh, but he's also not a behemoth or anything. He's 105 points Petrifying gaze at the start of the combat phase You can pick one enemy unit within six inches of this unit and roll a die On a four up that unit suffers d three mortal wounds when I first read that I was like Oh, that's much worse than the old shooting attack, you know But then I kept reading Okay In addition If any mortal wounds caused by this ability are allocated to a unit until the end of that phase Only unmodified hit rolls of six for attacks made with melee weapons by that unit score a hit The same unit cannot be affected by this ability more than once per phase I'm sorry. What? Yeah, that's phenomenal. I'm sorry. What now? Uh, look You got to roll the four up You don't have to be in combat to do it. It's getting super close. I mean six inches, but you don't have to be in combat Uh, you got to roll the four up and then those wounds need to stick i.e. not get you know warded off or whatever But um, plenty people don't have wards And plenty people if you do d three mortals just take that I'm sorry. What? Yeah, like they can run and still do this There's not a shooting attack. This is just a thing That happens 24 inch start range on that. Uh-huh Uh-huh I mean Matt where you living on the cockatrice? So he lost the monster keyword, but they actually made his mortar wounds more reliable because last book was on a four up It's d six Now it's just flat d three and then he could still run do it and then um, I've seen this thing being tested and making rolling a four up and just making the opponent hit on sixes Is like heartbreaking It's really painful. It's very a lot of npe. Yeah. Yeah, this guy. Yes. As I said, he's 110 points I think as I said 105 sorry 105 points 105 That is such a wildly powerful rule. That is crazy Like Like tyler Okay Yeah, yeah, go ahead take your 10 block of The powerful elite things you like to run exactly. Yeah, I'm thinking my care my carousel Protectors list, right? Your protectors. Yeah, welcome to hitting on sixes. Your unit now does nothing. Suck it like this thing Yeah, but it's so cheap. I would think a number of I mean, I know points are going to be very tight The base of chaos because we're talking about a lot of points that are a little too high, right? But still I would think that if our number of lists are going to have two of these In their list Sure The fact that you got a 75 chance to resolve it on the unit you want if they check this pair One potentially an auto threat range But you can also obviously ambush them, right? And they care now I guess they're going to be on an eight But you do the command trade anyway point being you can deliver these things pretty well The eco ecosystem in this game has so many armies that are built Around right these powerful units that and I think we're going to see more of them arguably now At least when it comes to infantry like thralls coming back and it's so on and so forth So yeah, this is just one of the absolute standouts to me in this book I mean, I'm not going to lie the first question I asked when I read this rule Was I'm sorry. What uh armies can beasts ally into? A lot of armies, right Because other cast armies are going to be looking to to hire some cockatrice mercenaries. I mean I think this rule is crazy I Like this is on the border of bad Me it might actually tip over as you mentioned into npe mat because you know, this is really like flip a coin 50 50 shot That unit is ruined for combat every combat your combat and enemies Yeah, so I actually before I um read it again I actually thought you had to be in combat with the cockatrice I was like, okay, maybe this is a little bit more balanced But the fact that you can literally six six inches outside of combat and just do it is like, okay That's probably a little impressive. Yeah, and it dude. It's the threat, right? We we're always talking about threat perceived threat achieved It's or whatever that's saying is it's it's it's that you have to potentially prioritize these damn things in an opponent's list Yeah, now as you might pay the piper Yeah, the flip side of this is obviously if you have some kind of shooting in your army This is a relatively easy thing to remove. He has eight wounds on a six up save So I don't want to like overstate what it is, right? I mean he is Yeah, but he he's not protected. He is just out there and a very like he is just eight wounds Right. It's the question of can you do these wounds at range? If you have some kind of shooting boy, oh boy And then like, you know, if you're do like if you're running your traditional mixed arms list Tyler Right. I mean this guy has to be almost top of the priority list. Yeah, which That's part of the issue. Well, not just a part of the issue, but it's part of the value I would think to be some chaos like you're getting value either way You're looking at this if your opponent's having to prioritize these damn things and not prioritizing other things I'm not so I'm gonna be shooting a cockatrices Sure, you know, sure. No, I understand. I'm just saying the This thing I Yeah, this rule is is wild um This was like if they had to be in combat, this would be a lot more balanced But because they don't have to be like imagine you take this and zinch You sit them behind a block of horrors. Yeah now. I'm not only might just want to hit Now they will be hitting only on sixes. That's insane Now that we're talking about the yeah, I got the fact that you can ally this probably What all can I be is it essentially everything like nurgle all the the so you said zinch So assuming assuming all of the chaos factions, you know zinch nurgle, etc The fact you could do that that's probably what makes it busted alone Just outside of the chaos like that seems a little potentially ridiculous the combinations you could do with this thing I don't know maybe I'm overreacting but no I mean, I I don't I'm not sure you are Because I'm not sure it's not worth for 210 points in most chaos armies that can take this having two of these To babysit your melee blocks your anvil blocks Right Because they're just going to sit behind them effectively completely pillow forted by them Right and when the enemy charges you Then they're going to get hit by the double stare And there's a 75 chance that they go from Uh doing something to doing nothing Mm-hmm, because that's what six is to hit is it's doing nothing like you will do nothing Yeah, right You might as well have not attacked I thought that because this is a resin sculpt. I thought they would have just squatted this thing But instead they made it like the most potent ally in the world. It almost reminds me I'll tell you a magic story. Here we go Sometime back they printed so many boxes. You're gonna have to complain about daughter's cane. We'll get there. We'll get there. Don't worry Okay, cool. We've got two out of three sometime back. They printed a card called mental misstep. Okay What was important about this little counter spell it's a counter spell and what's important about this card Is that it could be cast for either like its normal color of mana or life All right Well, the problem with that is then when you can do the thing for life It showed up in every deck every color no matter what you were running Okay, and so you had to have the counter spell if for nothing else to counter other people's counter spells So suddenly every deck was running this stupid broken card because they all had to counter each other's counters okay, oh And in the same way, I just feel like often every chaos army who can allies It's just like zinch, nergal s2d at minimum. I know can all can all pull them. Um Like don't you just take two of these automatically? Yeah, you just coalition them in and it's been saying Right Uh, yes, exactly misstep your misstep the worst the worst three words in magic the gathering history misstep your misstep anyways, um the like Yeah, I I love that they gave this guy a really cool ability, but why is it that? Why is it this good? You know, I agree with you Matt by the way the right answer should have been he's got to be in combat Yeah, that Yeah Yes, that that would at least begin to approach reasonability right right Well, because then you'd have to actually risk this thing it wouldn't just sit there theoretically forever doing that Right, right because I mean again you show up into the combat you do nothing and then then what Future combats that you're just going to continue The fact as Matt was or what are you guys just saying you could use it like a quasi and leech hell Like the greatest potential leech hell in the game just turning your right off right they come in. Yeah, it's Yeah, that's wild Okay, so I now that I've reread that scroll I thought it was in comic for but now it's just within six inches now I feel like i'm rewriting a lot of my beast of chaos list So Yeah Uh freddy says we're gong prophet no longer has the scariest stare in the game Uh, yeah, I'm not sure. I think you might be right there um Yeah, like that's poof. That's wild. Okay. Um the chimera Uh, he's bad Anybody want to disabuse me of this notion? The chimera is 200 No, sorry. He's 185 points. I apologize 185 points Uh 12 wounds on a five up save his fiery breath delny does a d3 mortal wounds now instead of what it used to do Which was more than that Um, hey, I appreciate it's an auto d3 mortals, but it's a d3 mortals And he has his little uh Monsters rampage that gives him Plus one attack. He doesn't have a wound chart anymore Which is cool But he lost his cool neg 3 rend head when he was unwounded and all that different stuff All of his attacks hit on fours A lot of fours It's a lot of fours And like even if he goes to four attacks on all of his main things, which is what he would have to do if he uses his monstrous rampage um I just think he's bad I'm not digging him matt you see anything with this guy I just if I compare him to the gorgon is just like no At least gorgon can just like you know sustain itself with healing and everything and just general damage and being able to charge In your opponent's uh combat phase, but this guy um Compared to his last iteration They nerfed they made they made it so he degrades a little less But they just made him worse in shooting and in combat in general. So and he's overcoated so Yeah, I I have three I have three cameras because I ran a stupid list with three cameras in the last book Which was actually like doable, but like now he's like he's eye They also removed his plus two to charge Remember he used to have to just like baked in plus two to charge on his scroll Which was really fun, right because he could come in from ambush and actually like breathe and then Or not ambush. Sorry. You can come in from summon. I apologize. That's what I meant and then like breathe and then Reliably sort of hit a seven inch charge Yeah, I would actually save 10 summoning points Which is very doable and with the white dwarf and everything to actually summon this guy And he would just wreak havoc and now you know Yeah, like he's just Damage wise for me. I don't I can't I look at this guy At 180 points and I look at three bulgur at 195 points 185 195 Am I taking the bulgur? Am I taking this guy? I'm taking the bulgur. I just feel like I'm comparing him to the cockatrice In which I'm probably sure Sure That's that's an even worse comparison for so many reasons. Yeah, so, you know, yep He's just you know at 185 Yeah He's just too close to to to the other hammer units through the other. Yeah. Yeah, that have utility here Yeah, there's various elements. Yeah. Yep. All right the cygor Cool. Cool. 16 wins five up save. He's got his little boulder. He throws still only one attack Surprisingly Somehow he still has not figured out how to pick up a second rock So There you go Um Keith what the what the the past guy's rampage is just giving plus one attack to all his attacks In melee The cygor He throws his boulder 12 inch range 12 inch range Eight 20 inch threat Uh-huh You know I complained about this this range for so long like the short range of the cygor I thought for sure when we got this version They would they would figure it out and they'd be like, you know what let's let this guy throw his one stupid rock 24 inches Something reasonable for the piece of artillery in this army Nope 12 Great Is this the same profile that it used to be met three's or two's i used to be 18 inches it used to be 18 inches And it was 402s. Yep. It was 18 inches shorter. Yeah. Yeah, they complained it got or that like i'm sorry Yes, it got shorter. Yes. That's what i'm saying tyler. We complained about it for so long and it got shorter Uh Unbelievable he hits better on three's instead of fours, but Yeah, I mean, well, they they gave the long range to something else though on the cygor war scroll and it which is really funny It is. Yeah, so now all that being said Uh I don't hate this guy So it's it's 12 inch range one attack three's two snag two five damage flat But it does decrease as he only pick up smaller rocks as he as he gets wounded. So sure Uh The best one of the best episodes of batman the animated series is an episode called almost got him And in that episode killer croc everybody's sharing their stories of the time. They almost got batman So this is the joker and oh, I remember that The cygor actually hits better than the gorgon melee Yeah, there you go And killer croc is sitting at the table and when he tells his story he's like I threw a rock at batman and they're like That's it and he's like it was a big rock. So anyways That's what I think of when I think of this guy. Okay Uh, he makes seven attacks three's two snag one two damage perfectly fine He's okay enough at least he does two damage now instead of one Um, so that's fine enough Uh He can uh He has his his monster shrimp page is to uh eaten in the spell So it's fine. It's fine Um, he doesn't there's no downside to it. He can't like get hurt or anything and if he does dispel it he heals which is cool Not the most super useful thing, but it's okay. However, he has a double unbinder Uh, which is great and in addition each time an enemy wizard within 30 inches Of any friendly unit with this ability successfully cast a spell and that spell is not unbound The caster suffers one more to wound after the effect of that spell has been resolved So when they actually successfully cast they always take a mortal wound. I like it He's only he's 210 and remember if you take him in quake fray Not only does he become battle line, but he also becomes a priest and in that situation I actually like him quite a bit where he's actually a priest in battle line I'm in for this guy even with his crappy rock range But I think he's got to be like you got to be all in for this dude I don't I don't I don't like this guy outside of quake fray I'll be honest gorgon. I love kind of period this dude. I don't like outside of quake fray Matt I think that I actually think he has some use outside of quake fray because at 210 points with his like profile He actually isn't like bad and he's like a good utility piece because Every time you cast a spell within 30 inches of him. You just take one more wound imagine just having that guy against zinch Luminath or the gash and you look at the gash you'd be like you want to cast eight spells So yeah, and also But the the monstrous action is actually better than like what it appears Because all you have to do is like let's say you just bring a cheap endless spell That costs four or five to like cast sure you bring it next to the gorgon because you can also undermine your own endless spells You heal based off of the value of your dice roll So I was playing a test game with the cygore and I rolled like a 10 and the cygore was at like five rooms left Okay, now he's back up to 15 wins Yeah, that's great Yeah, so he's actually really tough to kill Totally you were talking earlier about chip damage and I mean that's that could add up as part of a chip Immortal wound chip damage plan. Yeah that it seems like you can do decently with with this book Is the impression that I'm getting I mean not not no insanely but It's almost a little bit like seraphon where you can do a bunch of like chip mortal wounds Not to the rate that seraphon does it but it's like kind of similar And I also really like to be cygore um in coalition with slanesh and corn Because depravity and then corn just loves more anti-magic. So Yeah, that's cool. Yeah Yeah, Joel rocked in that measure game about rep and it was it was interesting Um, yeah, the price value isn't too bad, but Okay Let's keep moving So like all of these things are the same as what they were before in zinch That is to say all the zinch units were about to touch on so I don't want I'm not going to like go through all their stats I'm just going to ask like what do we think of their value in this army? Right is more or less what I want to discuss, right? Um So let's start out with just uh straight up zangor the beast of chaos zangor Okay, so beast of chaos zangor 10 for 170 Now these actually win the award as the highest straight up melee damage Uh in the book depending on the save you're talking about Okay What I mean by that is they will outpace the um The the dual wielder guys will outpace the uh the bulgur against like a very low save Other than that the bulgur will outpace them So just to be clear on what I was talking about there But of course bulgur also have the the impact hit mortal wounds, which are big which put them back over the top These guys advantage is obviously their their size and you're getting you know 20 wounds for 170 points Like it's a lot and these guys to me are really the actual reason why bestigore are a harder sell for me at 10 for 220 Um now they are only on a five up save But they do have some dudes with a six up ward and so on and so forth. They have their They can run in charge, which is great Um built in and so on and so forth. How do you rate zangor? How you liking them? Do you think they have do you think they have play in this book? As someone that abused 30 zangors in the last book when they had a four up rally I was actually down on them for a little bit because like oh they lost the you know You can't rally them anymore and then um you can't um They can't they can never be conditional battle line anymore actually So they're all they can never be a battle line. So that's another big change with them So you only take 20 at most however at 170 points and their base three attacks each on threes and threes They actually hit. I mean as you said they hit harder than bestigores And they have a lot more attacks and then I can see people running A missiles of like 10, you know, just a nsu block of 100 You know in 70 points or even 20 just to like charge of things and just up trade Because they'll get run one on round two And with like let's say 10 of them and if you have mutants You're getting closer to 30 or 40 even 50 attacks with them On the charge and then if you combo them with like, you know, plus one attacks with some command traits and you know Makes them hit above their weight class Yeah, I agree. These guys can just make a A metric ton of attacks and that we talked about that before I think like when you look at their points out They are five five bravery compared to the seven of bestigore I don't think it actually ends up mattering that much in the end, but it is a just thing to note um But to me Like when we're talking about the role these guys fit the role of like just pure hammers a lot more They generate a pretty insane number of attacks Uh You know with with some number of dudes having the great blades and so on and all that so like I just I Like zangora lot at 170 Um, I think they're a pretty strong choice Yeah, they're one of the cheaper hammers in our book. Yeah They used to be met They they also they used to be 170 in the last book I know they're like 175 or something like that. Maybe but I think maybe but They're basically the same points. Yeah, it's the same. Okay. Yeah, I'm just talking about the inch I'm seeing 180 for for unit of 10. Okay Excuse me They seem pretty attractive Yeah, totally. I I think they're good Yeah, they're not anvil anymore, but you know now they're just become a missile, which is, you know Probably more accurate to their role. Yep Okay, um the more morgerite chaos spawn Okay, so what the heck is this is probably your question Well, remember earlier when we were talking about great phrase and I read that one great phrase ability and you were like Everybody in the audience was like, what the heck are you talking about or is Where you can take this gibbering congregation A gibbering congregation is three of these guys three morgerite chaos spawn there and they act as individual units We take three of them as a packets It's another one of those things like the multiple sharks and the multiple in the coven and so on But these dudes are all battle line Until you fill up your battle line if you take them because they're they're three units Um, so it's fine The important part about these guys versus the normal chaos spawn because there is still the normal one as well Is you subtract one from the attacks characteristics of weapons used by enemy units while they are within one inch of this unit to a minimum of one so they they Reduce an enemy's attacks and they're they're they're automatically on the eight attacks threes and threes Yep, that's kind of cool Uh Is it cool? No, it's 230 points for a little For a combo here, but it's only in the gap the gap spawn. Okay. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's gonna obviously limited the Small one and and that was all that we're looking at as far as the benefit of gasp on okay Yeah, so I doubt we're gonna see this a whole lot. What do you think Matt? I mean that that's a nice benefit, but Like you're giving I mean you're giving up all heard start with that You're giving up Yeah, I think all heard is there for you know, just the general like resilience or just reliability where gave spawn Leads more into the tech of stacking because right now I mean, they're definitely going to FAQ it but you could stack minus ones to hit from all the chaos spawn And um, yeah, so usually I think you would pair these more great chaos spawn With like let's say gores best of gores zong gores or dragon ogres who that you could just sit there and tank it then you just act debuffs and then Because they're all like individual when they play on the board and they can run in charge If you cobble this with slake frame, they're moving 13 inches and that can run in charge And they actually have a good combat profile. That's good at clearing screens. So yeah, yeah For their points are actually well-costed and for like the utility that they bring It's surprising that they made chaos spawn this when you know strong Yeah, totally Yeah, okay. Yeah a very interesting unit I just pointed out. Yeah, there are two important things to point out with the ore of insanity thing that both bartek and the iron gutsman Pointed out first off. It's missing the word any On that ability. So theoretically they do stack um, but on the flip side Um They it's only a one inch range on the aura. So theoretically models could be moved piled out pushed around You know, like if like people could get out of your aura relatively easily and then restore back themselves to their normal attack profile So, yeah Okay Enlightened and enlightened on disc Uh, again, they're like the zinchi ones The enlightened on foot are three for 165 the which is like, yeah, sure. Okay, and the enlightened on disc are three for 215 They have the same abilities that the disciples ones have. Um, I'm pretty Not interested in these guys in this book at that point cost is my answer But matt you got a different take They're definitely paying for the sins of the last book. That's for sure These were a staple right with a lot of lists a lot of yes because you could rally them on a four up And they were 180 points for a, you know, three on disc and they were just glitter anything they touched That being said though, I actually think that if you run them in msu There's still some use so like let's say, you know stopping command abilities within three inches is incredibly powerful in the combat phase So that's still good. But because this book is just so expensive Maybe at most you take a unit of three either on foot or on disc and that's it They're not like the world breakers that they were before and also the rend Um because the rent is delayed they used to be able to get to rent three in battle round three last book And now they don't even benefit from the bonus rent till round four and usually in round four Everyone's just playing for battle tactics or the games over by them So, yeah, yeah the on foot it continues to be an option that just shouldn't actually exist I just submit to you like I hate that it's a thing. I get why they did it, but it's stupid Uh, the enlightened on disc. I mean at 165. It's a complete joke Um at 215 for the for the guys on disc. I like Again, I just see so many better options for for things that are hammers. So, um Like the the wounds to hammer to damage ratio here. These guys aren't bad by the way They they are like, okay damage. I don't want to poop on them too bad. Like they they still do decent damage Um, you know against a four up save Uh, these guys a single unit puts out about about 8.1 damage. That's not nothing like that's pretty decent It's just there are better options doing the same or higher for you know Uh, the same for the for the same or less points that are also more resilient. So, yeah, yeah Yeah, I mean, they're definitely, you know, still a good option But I'm glad they're just not like a straight up auto include anymore that I can just run a bunch of other things Then just running a bunch of zongar and light and on disc the foot ones didn't need to go up I'm surprised they went up 75 points. Yeah, it's why 75 points good 75 points. Yeah, uh skyfires are still skyfires. This page is very roughly photographed I apologize everyone, but they're skyfires. They do what skyfires do which the important part is they shoot and Ignore all positive modifiers to save rolls, right? So and they ignore negative modifiers for their own hit rolls Uh, skyfires are 210 3 for 210 Yeah, that seems brutal for what they're gonna give you like I wasn't that sold on the zinge skyfires Much less base of chaos here at least in zinge you can like trigger it with destiny dice to get the sixes We we don't have any mechanic for that. So like They were met for me last book and now they're like, I guess they're still paying for their sins of 1.0 Or whatever skyfires are really good team. Yeah. Yeah, I I actually quite like their ability I think that I love that like ignore negatives to hit and and Ignore positives to save my problem with it is the things I generally were toe is targeting with them because I think a Small unit of them just kind of working and picking off utility heroes was basically the play for them. Okay but um They can't do that now because they can't go in shark shooters. So I mean unless I'm wrong. They also still hit on fours One shot still hit on fours. Yes. Yeah, okay. Yeah Yeah Like I I I didn't hate a I I've played a unit of seven of them a few times in in disciples of zinge And or sorry seven Sorry a unit of six of them which makes seven attacks because the champ and found them perfectly adequate at like harassing and Weakening and cleaning up and stuff like that and I like them for those those abilities But in this without without my destiny dice in my back. I agree Okay Quick side note. Uh, you don't know if you guys saw the alliance open data that got put out on twitter today 57 players three Sharp shooter battalions Yep, that's it. Uh, I don't think we're to see a lot of sharp shooters. But hey, here we go. Okay 50 57 players or 54 players 57 Battle rich everywhere, which of course a lot of this I've been expecting just yeah a massive spike It's back, baby. All right the shaman. Do you mention this dude earlier matt? Tell us why you like this angor shaman Um, so it's all gross shaman is still good because he's still a 16 inch move And he still is like he used to get five up savings in the last book until the zinge book came out Now he's you know, he's a four up save and once for game he can get plus three to cast So imagine having arcane tome on him and then you take the twist fray gentle trait So he's getting pluses to cast every single bout around by the time you get to round three Plus three to cast and then if you really want to spell to go off you drink the potion So you'd be plus six to cast kind of overkill But you know the beast of chaos spells are really good and plus our endless spells So sometimes you want to save it for a crucial turn and because he's six wounds Um, he better, you know, he's a little bit better with taking the ritual water wounds than just being a five So yeah, I like him a lot I do as well Now he is mounted But Ooh 115. That's not bad. Yeah, he's only he is mounted which is a downside in the current season But yes, he's only 115 points. I think he's pretty much a rock star because of his mobility. Um, yeah Yep, I like this guy a lot and I agree with the exact build. You just trotted out. I love it. Yep 100% I'm I'm in that. Um, so yeah All right chaos warhounds they still exist Next chaos spawn Uh, oh just in case you're curious by the way, sorry, um chaos warhounds are 10 for 110 points So Let's see they are two for being one of two wounds So they actually got a lot better They used to be 80 points and now they went up 30 points to get an extra wound So, you know, they also auto charge on if you have a four or something So, yeah, if you're looking for the bargain basement cheapest wounds to pack on the table Yes, they are like 10 points above clan rats on the wound Count right but but yeah, that's that's what they are You're getting you're getting 20 wounds for 110 points and basically it's just 20 wounds waiting to be lifted off the table because it's they they're in in combat They don't do much of anything and they have a six up save. So it's fine if you just think about bodies Yeah And I think about them too is because their bases are like the tiny calf base Yeah, they actually like have a giant like congo line to stretch out if you need to But yeah, there's a spring Um, and then the regular cast spawn, uh, you know, he's he's a cast spawn Um, he can run in charge and he does the whole double attacks thing The regular cast spawn does go battle line in the gavspawn army Though I'm not sure why I assume if you're going gavspawn, you're taking the A gibbering congregation which fills all of your battle lines. So Okay That's fine And he's a single by the way, it's not like you can reinforce the thing or something So it is what it is. Um, yep. He's a cast spawn He's 65 points. I mean he has cheapest chips, I guess so You know, if you want the cheapest possible battle line option, there it is Cool Um, the chaos gargant because that still exists Uh, I love I love this. I love the wacky things that are still included in this army The cast giant law, you know, he he he still he has timber like the giants. He can still stuff him in his bag Um, the at the start of the combat phase if he's within six inches of a friendly beast cast hero You can add one to the attacks characteristic of this unit's melee weapons for that phase Which is cool because that actually does affect this guy's damage to a significant Degree turning his head button might kick from one or two attacks is a big jump in his efficacy Um, but the important part about this guy is his aura of foulness Which is subtract one from save rolls for enemy units within three inches of any friendly units with this ability Um, which is interesting and this guy is 145 points for 12 wounds on a five up save Uh, I don't hate him. I don't hate him. Uh, he's another again. I agree. Thank you very much, uh Illegal romanian sushi. Maybe the best like that's one of the greatest youtube names I've ever seen Uh, another good friend for slaves to darkness. I agree Like a dude who can just kind of walk around and pass out a neg one to save aura passively It's not bad. It's not bad Yeah, he can also put units in his bag like so he can still break coherently like a regular, um Baby giant and also he's actually really well costed 145 points So I'm surprised that with the utility that he brings he's costed the way he is He just moved. Yeah, I really like this guy. Yeah. I mean the fact that it's all enemy units. It's not just one The with the minus one. Yeah Tractor yeah, the aura of foulness sold me. I was reading through him and I was like, I don't like this guy I don't like oh wait, hold on Yeah Brought it back around for me when I read this. I was like, okay. Well that aura of foulness We got some tech now. We got some tech now, right? That's a suddenly he's a component of a strategy Because now he started thinking about He's neg one He brings a roar with him when he walks in Right because he he is a monster Uh, he um You know Now it's round two everybody else has got another Another Rend thank you very much. It's like, okay. Well, you know some things are happening here and it's equating to the enemy not having any save at all Yeah Stuff in the back. Yeah in terms of you Matt you're talking about turning up pile in when does the stuff in the back trigger at this You know, it makes pilot move pick only a lot of within three roll the dice Double model characteristic. Okay. Yeah, so Like if you shut off their ability to pile in With the the vicious strangle thorn spell and then you pick someone out of their line doesn't matter if they attack or not They're just stuck Right. Yeah Like definitely, um, he's he he you definitely want to like partner him with like the hammers in your book Like bulgur is a gorgon. You know He has a lot of he has a lot of best friends in in this book Absolutely, just get this giant trailing around with some bulgur. Just like people. Let me tell you about my best friend here He has Yeah Yeah, I mean eight inches is kind of slow, but you can also takes like fright the command trait to make him move Yeah 11 inches. So yeah These units that you don't want to be Bothering with it's fascinating. I have multiples of these Uh little dorks that you may have to pay attention to when you want to pay attention to the bulgur's But we have the crowd that's actually we're going to do the work. Right. Yeah, exactly It's like, oh jeez. I want I want to focus on the bulgur, but I got to get rid of these two cockatrices I got to get rid of this giant and it's like with it's still only like 350 points. We've spent to get these three, you know Distraction carn effects is on the table, right? So it's it's not bad with like the meat of the army still well over here That's that's cool design. I mean you can even make the case of taking two like chaos gargants in your list Sure Nurgle no pylon is a random thing for only one turn, right? Uh, it's on their wheel. Yes, it's a well, no. Yes and no Yes, it is a thing on their wheel, which is random I mean, it's it's random in that they start on a random point of the wheel and then they advance to it So, you know, which turn it's going to happen on But it's also a thing that the slobby bio piper can do Uh anytime he wants he could Toot him up a a little no pylon tune. So it's depends on the Which you're talking about They have multiple no pylons Uh, grassrack, uh, grassrack, okay Um, he still does he does grassrack things He has a seven casting value seven 18 inch range spell He gets the six inch bonus for his heroic actions He does the d3 mortal wounds and everybody in your army gets plus one to hit Uh, that unit that you target with it Plus one to hit they made this guy an all star Uh for a long long time He's 180 points for, you know, him and his his guys Um, I don't really know if that's worth it. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't The fact that I can get two regular braishamans Almost for this guy's points like almost not exactly but almost It makes me a little sus. He's also automatically locked to all herd Again, I suppose it depends on what you're playing But he's not bad I mean plus one to hit in an army of a lot of four up dudes It's It's not bad. I'm not gonna not gonna kick it out of bed for eating crackers Matt, what do you think on grassrack and his boys? He has a little less value in the Galation champion season But when we get out of the Galation champions, his value goes up I love him in the last book and I still love him now because he only went about about like maybe 20 Ish points Because savage ball is such an insane spell just to have it And also, I think he's priced the way he is because you just do your rituals of ruin on your body guard Guys, yeah, sure. Oh, absolutely. Those guys are eating it Yeah So he's good. It's just it's just not the season for him But I think after this season, I'll be putting it back in less That's very nice Alrighty tusk or chariots and sentigores Uh, so tusk or chariots Um lost their built-in re-roll to charge Um And they do mortar wounds on the charge. They do more if it's a big unit Um, and they make some attacks. It's perfectly fine chariot. It's what you think it is It's 95 points, which is like Okay You know pretty cheap For this ancient and extremely ugly model that is probably still made of metal Five up impact Uh, well, yes, but it's it could be four up if they have a wounds characteristic of one or two Okay. Yeah Yeah, so maybe that could you think that that could contribute to any meaningful Combo damage motor windshield plays running some chariots. Yeah. Yeah, I in some of my list I'm actually running two chariots or maybe even three because let's say you put a unit of six or nine bull goers in ambush you take the general trait For um being able to deploy unit within seven inches rather than nine And then let's say you want to get into the juice. You have these tusk or chariots charge into a screen They blow up the screen Most likely bull goers charge if there's any screen left They blow them up and then the bull goers pile in and you get to whack whatever's behind the screen Or let's say if you're fighting like a gargantt or something You just have beast of chaos not usually used to have this many water wounds But now we have so many ways to apply water wounds where just like if you charge several tusk or chariots in and bull goers in um Yeah, it does a lot like I definitely like Comboing those two units together. Yeah And again, they are cheapest chips. It's 95 points. It's okay seven ones were saying It's good value. Yeah Yeah, very cool so It's just this looks kind of fascinating me just in terms of like the design signature I'm filling with you got just all these little units that you can potentially add in these these various Little pieces these tech pieces and creating synergies. It's so different As I said the list building with this is wild man I I was just playing around with some lists myself and like it's it's crazy You just like drop in and all these different components like how much do I want to lean on this aspect? How much do I want to lean on this aspect and so on? uh sentigore Super cool paint job on the picture on the sentigore by the way 14 inch move two wounds four up save um, they've got their little spears and They uh, they're drunk So there you go. It's just fun The first two wounds are mortal wounds caused to this unit the combat phase are negated In addition if a model this unit would flee as a result of failed battle shock test You can really die on a two up it doesn't flee because they're drunk And they're unruly hooligans at one of the attacks characteristic of these is melee weapons Well, it's holy within nine inches of any objectives that you do not control Their attack profile is fine. It's certainly not bad. It's you know, it is what it is It's two two attacks on threes and threes neg one one And sentigores are five uh five four one seventy Uh, but they are a battle line, uh, which is wild if your general is a great bray shaman. How about that? They can go battle line um these guys are Fine like their profile and everything on them is is fine. They have they have an interesting suite of abilities and stuff going on My issue with them is I don't see the world where i'm bringing five of these for one seventy Yeah Again, I don't think the scroll is bad. I think it's actually an interesting scroll because of their their Range attacks and everything else and their speed like they're really fast Like a fortune with these guys Yeah, what are we doing with them at one seventy like it was It's pure yeah Because they used to hit on fours wood on fours and now they're very reliable on threes and threes And they get an extra attack if they're by an objective that I don't control So Yeah, that's kind of interesting. Yeah three attacks each threes and threes no rent minus one rent Okay, minus one rent and then we get to round two minus two rent 16 attacks S2 ran threes and threes two's and threes two's and threes maybe 14 inch move 24 inch threat range on the shots, but they're just a little pepper They're also surprisingly tanky like they went from being a five up save to a four up save and they ignore the first two wounds now Like there's a lot of play with this unit trigger on that the first two wounds in that combat phase. Okay I I like I said, I like the design of this scroll. I think it's a good scroll I think at one seventy I can find better ways to clear screens like all the ways you just mentioned, you know last map That's my issue with it. Yeah, like tusk or chargers or something like that. Right. Yeah, exactly But if you guys were down some 150 140 Okay, I'm starting to think about it now, right So again, this just feels like a points issue. They feel like a really interesting unit in their capabilities. It's just They're not quite there Little too expensive. I also feel like they're priced because they can be battle line That's probably why they're priced the way they are Yeah I'm going to think about oh, thank you. Yes, absolutely. And I should mention this. They also have built-in retreat in charge Which is really important. Okay. Thank you. It's called their standard bear. Yeah Joel said 120 to 140 by the way, but you know Joel's Joel's a Joel's beast stand. So I think but we meet in the middle at 140 I think I think we can I think that's the right points. There you go Find somebody who never trust a beast player when they tell you points their anchor pricing is broken They don't Beast players do not know how to price units anymore They've had two three years of being trained that everything is just supposed to be bargain basement They're shopping at the dollar store. They're shy, you know, whatever. They don't they don't understand that Just ignore just ignore the billion red that we could give these units before right like Beast players are to be ignored completely take anything they say add 10 to 20 you get to the right number Okay, that's what I mean Honestly, if I think it points to this probably 150 kind of sounds like a sweet spot to resent the gores, but maybe I'm biased No, I I I agree. Like I said 140 to 150. That's that's the spot. I'm gonna plant my flag at that's where I think they said they get interesting to me Yeah, and I don't think they're bad now. I just think you won't really see them because they're just slightly slightly too much Okay, cool Razor gores. Oh my god. I can't believe we have to talk about these things. Do we have to I thought they would delete this thing. I'm You can't even buy this thing anymore. I don't think I don't know. I haven't even bothered to look at the store You know, okay They heal badly They are bad. Can we just move on from this this? Truly the ugliest model In the history of warhammer Okay Uh I I refuse pass slang gore. Okay slang gore fiend bloods. That's right, baby. They're here. They're worked in now, too Uh, they they got to join the party Uh beast of chaos slang gore fiend bloods are three for 130 Um, they got a better profile than what the uh, then what the slush ones have they upgraded when they move over here Uh, so that's good now. They're four attacks fours and threes neg one two damage or the the champion guy is five attacks fours threes neg one two damage So it's a little better um And uh, yeah They at the end of any phase fennie wounds or mortar wounds were allocated to this unit in that phase and this unit is more than nine inches from all I mean, you know, it's this unit can move up to d six inches Remember when that was like an iron jaw iron jaws rule? That was an iron jaws rule for a while. Now it's a slenesh rule. Oh, the world is so weird Um So yes, they can move around if they get shot. That's what's happening, right or or spelled or whatever And then once for battle in the combat phase, you can make them fight twice But the second time they fight they they have always tricks last Okay They're they're solid at 130 points I like I like them for what they do and I think the most interesting thing to me about their worst role Is the fact that it says beast of chaos slung or feet bloods because I know in the past with other books if two books shared a unit Um, they would all they would have to suffer with like whatever the scroll was from one book So now it seems like gw's willing to actually create different war scrolls for the same unit if they're in different books So yeah, that's pretty exciting So I think they might I might have done it. Yeah, 130 is a challenge um, but it's This scroll to me is still a little underwhelming, but it's better. It's still nine wounds on a five up save But it's better at 130 Yeah It's better. Yeah fight twice makes them pretty like decent for what they do. Yeah Uh, we're just gonna talk about it on the spells as a pack. I mean Okay, these these, uh Matt, what do you think of the endless bills? I I have a favorite, but I'll I'll save mine. What where where are you living here? Can I pick two or do I do? Wildfire charts because it is an effective beast of chaos uses anymore And it's still the same points cost and it still Had moves around a lot and a dirge horn. They massively buff dirge horn Hmm For because it used to be within three inches Now it's within six inches and the aura vehicles of six inches every single battle round It's so funny too because my pick was going to be the direflock, uh, which is really funny because The direflock is only 40 points and The direflock actually has like a decent range That is to say it's a 12 inch cast and an eight inch move. So it's got a good 20 inch Threat and 26 is the the range of how much the aura reaches out and it shuts off rally and inspiring presence, which are two commands. I hate and so Shutting those off is real good Uh, and you know, they also can just stop other commands as well on a five up. So each time Yeah, within six with such an amazing threat range It's great Definitely a more balanced than the cockatrice. That's for sure Yeah, all day and also I do I also say I do like the dirt the raven wing direflock for one thing because it's so cheap to cast If you're running a cygor and he's being wounded, you just eat your own endless spell. Sure with the cygor So, yeah, and that's a good point assistant ref It does just block the issuing of the command not necessarily the receiving of the command So if they had a backboarded hero behind The flock and there's like behind the unit that was outside of the range Then it would they could that unit could still issue and then the that unit could still receive but Just make sure that doesn't happen. I mean when you've got a 26 inch threat range You can often get this thing into a position where you can just shut off a unit's ability to rally Often yeah, or sorry inspiring person. So really For the dirt shorn when this endless bill set up its range of six started each subsequent battle round its range is increased By six subtract one from wound rolls Tax me my units with the range of any and spells with this ability no effect on beast Yeah, man. That's amazing. Yeah, I just want to move Yeah, I think they got three and that dirge orange only 30 points too. I mean like again just cheap as chips. Yeah 40 on the dire flock And we already talked about the herdstone. It does the it does the rend thing and it's impassable That's what it does now. And I don't know if we said it. Yeah the torres does it do D3 motor wins strike last effect within three inches in the spell We're talking lists now. All right. Here we go matt. I got your first list up We're going to do this, but we're going to beat we're going to be quick about it. So Lists Matt take us through your first list. This is your all-heard boc list up on the screen for everybody Great brave shaman dune bull beast of chaos zangor shaman 30 gore six bulls six bulls a chariot Ten angors ten angors anna gorgon This is all packed into warlord and galatian veterans hit us with the the idea here Yeah, so the essentially the idea here is that to me this is like A standard beast list I can you know definitely take It's also a good all-commerce list because you have two units of six bull gores for your hammers I can come out of ambush And then um while you also have a 30 block of gores that you know, your opponents cannot ignore And I also include a tusk or chariot to combo with the bull gores In addition and then with the gorgon I combo him with the great brave shaman with vicious strangle thorns because the combo I was talking about earlier with you guys where if you stop a pile in and the spell goes off on a five You know suddenly when your gorgon goes into like a unit of like, let's say chosen or something And they can't pile in suddenly they're going to lose a lot more chosen And then the brace shaman the piece of chaos zangor shaman with twist spray curse beast Get plus the cats with arcane tome makes it really reliable with tendrils of atrophy which goes off on a seven And then I'm also taking the doom bull with tunnel master and the helm we were talking about earlier because fight last Comboing with gorgons and bull gores. It's just flat out amazing Yeah, I mean this again plus one plus one to Plus one to damage against the target And the funny thing with that is that I unless I read it wrong It actually pairs well with the bull gores So like let's say if bull gores are have or have the great acts with tendrils of atrophy And now they get plus one damage against the target now They're doing four damages swing rather than three damage and their mortal wounds also go up from Three three mortal wounds on six to hit to four more than six to hit. Interesting. Yeah yeah Yeah, and then I like going high drop because even though um, we can't submit it We don't have as many wounds as the last book because we can put things in ambush. I like having the most out of artifacts and you know enhancements just to make sure that you know This list can get everything that it needs to get You know all her and no all her benefits the gores and un gores So and I mean to be clear you still have 140 wounds. So it's not like you're slouching over here Right. So yeah Yeah, very cool, man. Yeah stuff. That's a good tech there. I love it. I love it. This feels like a good all-arounder solid um So yeah, uh Joel McGrath said tendrils doesn't add to the damage characteristic So it wouldn't increase the mortal wounds. Okay, but I mean still getting extra damage on, you know Paradox a great actor. Yeah, sure. Absolutely. I mean like you're you still are gonna have a bunch of attacks that aren't sixes So plus one damage generally a good buff. Yep Okay, yeah, cool. And then uh, let's go to Gavspawn your gavspawn list. Come on. There we go. All right. This yeah This list is a little more wacky and uh creative, but um hit me Yeah, so I guess like when it pulls up on the screen from my head Everybody threw what's in here. We got a beast of chaos zangor shaman a doom bull a great race shaman. We've got one eyed grannock Uh-oh Three morgarite chaos spawn six bull gores 10 on gores one beast of chaos cast spawn 20 gore one beast of chaos cast spawn The chaos gargant coming in for the win All wrapped up in a warlord galatian veterans and some part in a battle regiment Okay, hit me Yeah, so definitely I when I was like trying to figure out beast of chaos list because we're You know all of our units got a lot more expensive I was trying to figure out okay If I don't want to run all heard by need like an anvil that can kind of fight What am I looking at and then I was looking through the allied options? And I saw you know a mega gargant for 420 points In the mega in the sons of the hell out book all their gargants the cheapest price is 480 This is 420 for a mega gargant that you know can give issue itself commands And you know be on a four and it's 35 wounds and also the tech with him is that when he fights He generates a minus one to hit aura. I believe within six inches around him. So he has that debuff So also I have the spawn also follow him the morgarite chaos spawn for also minus one to attacks If they're within an inch so because of how fast the chaos spawn move and I take Slake fray reveler the chaos spot are moving 13 inches plus a run so they can so they can keep up with the gargant who's running 10 So I let him just sit there with some of the spawn Well, he fights he suddenly might as want to hit and then he's might as want to attack With two or three spawn sitting around him and in addition I also have a baby gargant because I also wanted to play sons of the hell In these for a little bit, you know, you combo him with minus one to save with that gargant with his like with his son Basically, he looks in a pony. He's like, you know, don't talk to me or my son ever again. Oh, that's so good Yeah, suddenly, you know the problem with gargants and they're in the recent book is all their rend went down So they're like rend two. Yeah, maybe gargant makes them rend three. It's a great idea. I love that Yeah, so like essentially this list revolves around debuffing and just buffing The mega gargant while everything else plays for, you know, points and wounds 20 gores It's still good because they have a five of brally and they charge something they make something fight last You know, which helps the gargant or they can be on their own and then Yeah, and you still your doom bull and bull gore pairing up as well Yeah, and then I could also pair the doom bull with the gargant because he just makes himself charge At the start of the combat phase to make something that charged the gargant fight last So, yeah That's what it's there for and then tendrils of atrophy. You get plus one damage, you know against the target unit So suddenly when I grow docks damage is going from two damage to three damage on its big club If tendrils of atrophy goes off Yeah, so Love it. And also I also really like brave blast trumpet because even though this List doesn't have as many wounds as all her does being able to summon a unit of 10 gores is valuable Just to get another fight last unit on the board. Yep We haven't mentioned cron spine. Do you rate him? Do you rate that at all? I know vence you hate this war scroll and I'm not a fan big fan as well, but Cron spine I'm eating it into the sun if that's absolutely Yeah, um incarnate. It's really you know because of we're expensive incarnate is still really good In beast unfortunately, but yeah, I mean he's he's pointed officially He doesn't die, but because the mega gargant it's at 420 points I actually value the gargant Over the incarnate because you don't have to risk the you don't have to risk losing your wizard and suddenly the incarnate is just You know potentially killing your guys if you're not positioning it Well the gargant you could just sit by your guys and he's just like kind of independent And also the biggest reason why I want to take the gargant Is because my friend who painted this for me after I get that shit. This is my mega shaggon This is what shaggots should be Nice. Yeah, so I want to reason take this guy again and might love it. Love it. Yeah, great, man I mean that's I mean this is This one is more kind of like a fun list I mean, I think it has a lot of legs because you know, the nice thing about the beast book Is that there's no like the list to take this is me just try out all the options Such a good example of some of the things that we talked about. Yeah, I just kind of plug and play with all these different pieces If you want to know what my list that I've been playing with are it's quake fray You just take doom bull you take six bull gores And then you just fill up like a like a great bray shaman and then the rest is just gorgon's And cygors all the way down. That's just until you get to 2000 like that's That's it. That's the list. It's really easy The nice thing about quake fray is that like with what you just described That's like insanely like viable and that's actually really great. Yeah, that's not me joking. That's me being 100% serious Like that's amazing Uh, I don't know if it's gonna win. I don't know that I'm 5 0 or anything, but I know I'm gonna have uh I'm gonna have five fun games out of five. That's for sure. That that is happening Uh, so there you go. All right. Well Matt Hey, buddy. Absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for being on Yeah, thank you for having me. I'm you know, I I tried to play it cool as I learned from you know, Marath Thomas But I was really excited when you guys hit me up for this show And I was just like, oh wow, okay Because I've watched you guys a show for a long time and you know, it's you know Good to finally be on here and it was really fun talking to you guys about you know Be sick chaos and just everything and you know just being able to Share my love of this book with not only you guys, but you know, just the general audience Hey 100 it was great to have you. Thank you so much for coming on man We really appreciate it and consider yourself pre invited back for the future We will I know you're also a big doc fan And even though doc is a terrible overpowered consistently broken over Over adorned army Did it? I'm sure they'll get a book at no time and we'll have you back on it But no, well Matt you're welcome back anytime, buddy For all of you out there Thank you so much For watching. We really appreciate it. Don't forget to hit like subscribe do all those fun things It helps other people find the channel. We're on the road to a million now after we hit the 100,000 That's it, right? Yeah One milestone reach the next milestone begins But thank you so much everybody for watching. Don't forget if you want to support the show There's a merch store down below check out the new snarling badger merch store as well You can also do so through patreon. There is a link down there for that That's focused on review and feedback and taking your next step on your hobby journey But folks as always We really appreciate you watching And as always We'll see you next wednesday