 Rwy'n ddych chi'n ganddo, felly dy'w ddim yn fawr yn ymgrifio oedd yn gynnig mewn i chi, ac hefyd geni'n rhoi amsoi yn gyf�radd y pryd o'r grwp cyfreid ydych chi'n gofyn yw gweithio'n arfer yn ei simplyf, ac rydyn ni'n bryd o dych chi o chofin i'r cyllid ymwellledig yma, sy'n gilydd hynny yw eu ffordd. Rydyn ni'n gofyn i chi, rwy'n meddwl i chi gydag mewn ymweld yma yn ymwyng yma a'r unig am ei cyfrifio. The ink said, although he was kindly not to say the actual time frames in all of this, you're actually looking at an extinct species because I'm a that com dinosaur. I was approached on the street recently in the UK and someone said, I know who you are. I thought finally I'm famous again after last minute.com 20 years ago. I said yes, you're that .com dinosaur. I thought oh my lord for a 45-year-old. That's somewhat alarming, but I bring I think an interesting perspective because just to spend two minutes on me, ac mae'r cyfraedd yn gweldJoe. Yn ymryd yw'r pergyffredinol? Yn ymryd yw'r pergyffredinol, rydw i'r ymddiol yma, mae'r cyfraedd ymryd yn ddefnyddio'r cyfrifiadau. Yn ymryd yw'r cyfrifiadau, mae'n meddwl yw'r cyfrifiadau. Yn ymryd yw'r cyfrifiadau, mae'n meddwl yw'r cyfrifiadau ar y cyfrifiadau yn ei meddwl ynglyn â phobl i gael ar yr unig. Mae'n meddwl hwnnw. Mae'n meddwl hynny'n meddwl ac yn ddechrau, a ddim bywch yn cael cael ei chyfnod 5, 10, 15, 20 ymlaen. Mae gynhyrchu'r gael, a mynyddoedd ymlaen dda, o'r ddweud o'r ddweud ymlaen yn Ecomers in Europe. Rydyn ni'n dechrau, rydyn ni'n credu bod rhywbeth ymlaen o'r ddweud wrth gofio ydych chi'n mynd i'n dechrau, oherwydd ymlaen yma. Yn yma, yr Ecomers ychydig yn gweithio'n ymlaen o'r gwell gwaith yma ac mae'r ddweud yn ymlaen. Felly, mae'n yn arweig i ddaeth i ddod yn dda i gael ar gyfer y busnes sydd gweithio 20 yw yma. Mae'n byw'n gweithio i'r hoffa'r pleid, mae'n ddadwch i'r hoffa y mae'n dweud i gael gweithio ffasil ar hynny, ac mae'n gweithio i'r 25-ynghyddoedd ymwynghyn sy'n gweithio ar gyfer y busnes, a'r hoffa'r hoffa wedi'u cyflogwyr, a'r hoffa ar y netwg sydd wedi ei wneud i'r hoffa ar gyfer y busnes yn y cyflogwyr. Mae'r dwylch, yn dwylo'r ddim yn lleolio'u gweithio. Felly nid i'n gweithio, gwnaeth ffacbook, twfydda, nid i Instagram, nid i'r snab. Mae'r ffosnesiaethau wedi bod yn amlwgol. Felly mae'r dweud o'n gweld yn gweithio'r ddigwisio'n dynol, 20 diwrnod. Felly mae'n ddwylo? Yn ddyn nhw, mae'r ddweud yn dwylo, ac mae'r ddweud yn cael ei wneud i'ch gweithio i fwylo i ddweud i gael i gael i'ch ddwylo ddaeth i'w gwirio'r ddweud o'r ddweud. Rwy'n ddweud mwy o'r ddweud o'r ddweud a'r ddweud o'r ddweud o'r ddweud o'r cymdeithas cymdeithas, ac oedd y ddweud o'r ddweud rydyn ni'n gofynu'r cymdeithas o'r teimlo gyda'r cyfnod, rydyn ni'n gwneud ymddangos o'r rydyn ni'n gweld yn oed yn ardal. Rydyn ni'n gweithio eich bod yn ymddangos ymdweud o'r ddweud, In London every hour a new tech startup happens and that's in London. If you were to extrapolate out to Lagos or to places around the world that you will come from, the numbers would be even more extraordinary. So normal now is very different but I believe we are at the absolute cusp of a change in relationship with all of us that all of us have to technology. It feels to me as though the Facebook Cambridge Analytica scandal chi'n ei ddefnyddio'r rhedeg yn ymgyrch chi wwn i Ewrobr, a ddigonio'r gilydd. Felly mae wneud y bod ni'n mynd ar y dod o'r gwlwydd yn fyndynol gwahanol sy'n yr unigu a fyddio yw'r cyflau a'r sicr mewn dod o'r gilydd yn ymgyrchu. Dwi'n gallu amser i'r gwahanol o'r unigwyr o'r Gwenneddoedd yma sy'n unigwyr o'r gwasanaeth a'r gorydd. Ac yn ystafell mewn, a'r gwahanoleg, bod chi'n eich bod wedi bod gennych. a hynny'n gwneud ydych chi allan fy hefyd yn ymddangos. Ond rwy'n meddwl yn ymddangos. 50% o'r peirio ar y cyflawn hefyd yn ddod peirio'n teimlo i fynd i'r holl ddent i'r ffordd o'r mynd i ddweud. Yn ymgyrchol, ydych yn ffwylo cyflawn i'r mynd i'r fforddol, ond only 12% believed it was improving society. That's quite a big disparity. Over half of people think it's helped them individually every day, but only 12% think it's improved society. That to me really sums up the anxiety that people feel. They know that they'll enjoy the cheap products and services, being able to connect with people around the world, being able to find out new online, being able to do all the things we all know too well, Ond yna'r amserol yn ysgriffa'r maen nhw'n amser o'r ymdweithio, dyfodol am yr ysgriffa'n ymddangos. Mae'n edrych yn rhywbeth o technolig. Felly yr anigdoedd sy'n ymddych chi'n bach i miyn ymddangos, yw yw ddyn nhw, yn ymgyrch yn ymddoedd yma o'r ysgriffa'r coalitiynau. Felly wedi'u fydd yn ymddych chi'n grwpio'r ysgriffa yw hyn yn ddiddos i'r ysgriffa oherwydd ac rwy'n cael eu cyfnod i gyddo i yw Uber efo'r gweithio. Rydyn ni'n gweithio ar y dynod yn hyn o ran yn cyfnod arfennig a dwi'n rydyn ni'n gweithio yng nghwyl ffwrdd yng nghymru o'r teimlo i'r gwahanol, rydyn ni'n gweithio cyflym i'r ddweud o unrhyw ymgyrch, ond rydym yn gwneud y fwy yw efo'i gweithio. A wnaeth i'r ddweud i gyddo i gyddo i gyddo i'r ddeud felly mae'n hynod i gyddo i'r newydd gwyllt, I think that is about system change, and it's not about any one small piece of society, it's got to be about us all coming together across the three axis. Civil society is represented so brilliantly here by all of you, governments and legislators and the corporate sector itself. And if we take a systems approach and argue for an improvement in digital understanding ar all y cyhoedd, ac gydag'i g sized arall felly o'r awsyddiaeth, ac rydyn ni i gael gydag, arall fy nghylch, dydyn ni'n ddweud bod Мыhaelffa hwn yn fawr bod y gydag ffordd a'r gilydd o'r gydag ar gyfwiliaeth New Normal. Yn amser, i ddweud fel hyn roedd, ac i ddweud mewn ei ddweud hynny? A fyddech yn gyntaf, i'r llwyaeth yng ngyfennydd i'r llwyo gyda. minimum. Mae angen i'r ystod yn gyfwil a'r ystod yn y fwyaf, yn gyfwil ar gyferaf ei wneud. yn y Unedig, yr Ysgol Hwb Llywodraeth, sydd yma, a mae yna'n cael ei ddefnyddio. Ysgol Hwb Llywodraeth yn ysgol Hwb Llywodraeth yn ystafell Cymru yma. Mae ymlaen o'r rhai o'r rhaid o amdano i gyda'r Llywodraeth, ond rhai o'r llyfriddol. Ond mae'n cael ei gwaith o'r llyfriddol yn ysgol hwnnw ymlaen, ond rhaid i'r llyfriddol yn ysgol hwnnw. Dydyn ni'n ysgol hwnnw'n 95% o'r llyfriddol is that we suggested last year were taken on board by the government's elected chamber, the House of Commons, and I mention the House of Lords because it's a strange place. I am perceived as the kind of internet person in the House of Lords, and I very often get asked the question of why the Wi-Fi isn't working. That seems to be the thing that I'm mainly associated with, but it's very interesting because from my view there, I can see the challenge that legislators and policy makers face all around the world in keeping up with the pace of technological change and arguably one of the biggest gaps in our societies right now between people who are making decisions about the public purse or about our directions of policy and the level of pace and change that's happening in the real world or IRL as my godchildren tell me I should say. This is a big problem we need to crack. To everyone we've done some test projects, we did a training program with MPs locally in the UK government where we matched them with a digital mentor, somebody not always younger but always with the right skills to help them do everything from manage their blackberry to learn about how they could use social media to talk to their constituents. We're now doing some work with City Hall, the mayor's office in the UK and we're doing some work in the health service and I believe that if by stealth we can help public sector leaders learn about the internet and upskill and have more level of understanding then we will get a sea change in how we think about technology and the ability for us to make better decisions and ultimately that has to also come through in better regulation and more effective regulation. Too often right now across the world the internet and technology is used as the catchall for the ills of society no politician is going to lose votes right now for kicking tech and that is probably right to a degree it needs some kicking but as we saw with the congressional hearings last week for anybody that was watching unless we have effective and understanding regulation that enables innovation appreciates the different business models online then we're going to I believe go in danger of going backwards in all that technology can offer so we need to upskill our legislators and we need to have effective and clear regulation we need to have not knee jerk regulation but regulation that takes into account people and their needs as opposed to just the political football that tech can sometimes become so that's to me the first piece of the puzzle the second piece is about us as individuals and this again is very interesting when you look at the research that we did in the UK that I again would be very interested to hear your views on we found that you know no surprises 90% of people think that terms and conditions that they find online are unacceptable and they don't understand them but only 40% of people said that they actually reviewed them and looked at them you know I'm still slightly staggered by that number I think people might be might be teasing us slightly this is something we need to crack we need to make it more understandable for all of us to know what that transaction is with the companies that are gathering our data and our privacy but I don't believe that will happen unless we have much more imaginative ways of helping people navigate this world and many of the things that I know people are working on in this room is to help general populations get more of a sense of accountability and transparency with what's happening online or with their governments using the digital tools available but we also need to make sure that people are given the information that they have and we're working on a public information campaign in the UK we're calling it a digital public health campaign so if you imagine a the old no smoking campaigns of the past that governments would do we're building the equivalent but for your digital health what is it that you need to know what is the things that will make you feel more robust and resilient in this digital world how do we educate people about what their privacy settings should be what the transaction is with some of the services that appear free on on the internet and I think that's a kind of interesting idea and interesting to see where the results end up so civil society and enabling us as individuals and organisations to be robust and have a good conversation about technology and put responsibility at the heart of how we interact online and the kind of choices that we make will be the second part of the pie chart to my mind so you have the governments and legislation and good regulation you have civil society coming together and producing more responsibility at both an individual level but also through civil society organisations that you all know well the final pieces obviously the corporates themselves and one of the things that we've been working on again in the UK is a vanguard of responsible tech companies companies that are different stages of their growth and their journeys who are going to put and embed a set of values about technology at the heart of how they build for the future and I would like to get to a phase where responsible design was right at the core of how people worked and how they built their products and services and what does that really mean well we've come up with some some principles that we think about responsible tech and I'm going to read this so that I don't get them wrong and the team get cross with me some of the things that we've worked on around what the definitions of responsible tech might be are that they a responsible tech company or organisation would not knowingly deepen in existing qualities inequalities or create new ones recognize and protect the inherent dignity and rights of all and give people confidence and trust in their use so I'll just go through those again they wouldn't deepen existing inequalities or create new ones they would recognize and protect the inherent dignity and rights of all and they would give people confidence and trust in their use there's a lot to unpick in those principles but it's be interesting to see and apply those to how you would build products and services and be cognizant of what some of the unintended consequences might be so we're thinking a bit about how we can build a cohort of responsible tech organisations would embed those values right at the start of their design principles so I believe very strongly that the sector is at a moment of immense importance people are watching to see how we hold the technology sector's feet to the fire and it has to be a joined up approach and a systems-based approach to thinking you know and I think back to my own journey of starting that business way back in the early dawn of time and how we didn't even really imagine what some of the unintended consequences of this technology might be and now I sit on the board of Twitter and I am on that board because I believe very much in the open nature of that platform and its capacity to do good but as we know Twitter has by its own admission struggled with a lot of the challenges of unintended consequences and Jack has recently announced a right for people to give him proposals about how we might measure whether Twitter's impact on the public conversation is positive or negative and whether or not Twitter is helping society progress and these may feel like small things but they're big shifts in the culture of how Twitter will be run so I feel as though the span of the last 20 years we've had the excitement and the froth of the dot-com early boom we've had the excitement and the froth of oh my goodness we can connect up the world and now it feels as though perhaps it's because I'm 45 we're going through a bit of a midlife crisis and we're thinking oh my goodness what have we created and what are these products and services but I'm so still optimistic about the future because I think that as borne out by all the amazing things many of the people in this room are doing we have still immense capacity for human reinvention and innovation the ability for technology to transform relationships with government us as citizens our ability to organise to find like-minded people and come together in a way that does not need to isolate us can bring us more close I think we'll look back on this time the late 2018s 19s 20s and think oh my goodness we really did sort a lot of stuff out so we are one small part of that puzzle at dot everyone in the UK we'd love to make friends we've got Staven Sam here in the front row from my team who would love to talk to you if you haven't met them already it's an exciting moment to be building a movement around responsible technology and I would love to make responsible the new normal I would like that woman in Manchester to be able to reflect in another five years time and say oh my goodness me there's this other service that I know now and I use and I shake the driver's hand every day when I get out of that cab and I slap them on the back and maybe sometimes we might even go out for a drink because we shouldn't have to put up with services that are punching us in the face so let's make responsible the new normal please join us and thank you for having me here today so quite a lot of stuff in there I'd love to hear things you're up to that might feel relevant any questions that you have about anything over the last expanse of time that I have inarticulately rambled through yes I can't yeah hi and as ever Martha thank you and I think really helpful and a nice positive whilst acknowledging a lot of the challenges we're facing and this is partly a reflection and then a question which is I think one of the things we're starting to grapple with is a much more avert sense of the need to manage power and that we are operating in power context and that and the bit for me you won't be surprised to hear I come from a co-op background is that I think we need to start look at ownership more and if this isn't a will you put the thing on Twitter agenda but I think Twitter is part of them that you know a mutualisation of some of these highly networked platforms in particular I think has because rebuilding them is really hard because of the network effects and the setup effects so I think there's something about our sectors not understanding or knowing ownership well and actually having to grapple with engage with that and I'd love your reflections on that really yeah thank you for that Karen and I think you're right I think one of my observations would be that you know I feel lucky I've started in the commercial world I've ended a lot of work in the UK government we set up the government digital service and created gov.uk and a whole bunch of stuff with that as always with lots of its roots in what my society had originally proposed in the UK and now work a bit more predominantly in broadly the kind of not-for-profit sector and it seems to me that you're sort of talking about silos and how you can the interrelationship between those different aspects and it's still hard I think for the charitable sector and the private sector to work together there's often suspicious on both sides or kind of angst or anger and it feels as though you know quite rightly the non-commercial organizations are holding commercial organization speak to the fire say sometimes don't like that and so that becomes a tense relationship but I think that what your point about ownership and capacity for both sides to understand different models are very very important and I I do think that there will be other things invented that we haven't yet seen so well the immense power of Facebook is you know extraordinary and complex and nuanced and we have to unpick in my view some of it's immense power I think that there will be huge opportunities and you see it around the world in different countries as well to have different models of ownership and different ways to build platforms and I so I don't feel pessimistic actually I think that we will look back in another 50 years and say oh actually that was a period of time where there was this insane build build up of power these ownerships were very limited and the networks were actually not as effective as we've managed to recreate now so I I'm still optimistic that innovation will lead to change and you know never look back and say actually this would be dominant for 100 years that feels like a naive view to to think that's the case yes at the back gentlemen at the back hi thank you for your presentation it was great great my name is Alvaro I'm from Argentina I work for the government of Buenos Aires city Mike is there right now I think Mike Cully from we set up the digital services doing some work with the government there right now I think great I hope they enjoy the city well I like your concept of responsible technology and recently in in Argentina and in Latin America there's there has been a lot of controversy on the role of social networks in in the public conversation and sometimes the governments are accused of having something to do in the you know inappropriate use of social networks and on the other hand sometimes governments want to jump in and try to propose regulations to to solve those problems and when that happens there are you know internet activists and civic tech organisations that tell the government to back off that there should be no regulations in this field so it's kind of an impossible game for sometimes for for governments what you're feeling about the role of governments in this type of in solving this type of problems yeah I mean it's a very hot topic of conversation around the world and thank you for bringing Argentinian perspective which I don't know well though I'd love to visit Buenos Aires I I think that it is interesting if you look at Europe which I know perhaps best the different models of government's relationship to social media again as I say I really think that right now no politician is going to lose votes by knocking the internet it's and technology companies this is a vote winner so that's a quite a dangerous position to be in you know it's dangerous from whatever angle of the tech sector you're working because we don't want politicians to undermine in my mind encryption or all the positive innovation or all of the big good things that have come from progress I would say so I think what you've seen Europe is this kind of sporadic different levels of government intervention and attention so clearly in Germany they have very specific social media regulation where companies are now find quite substantial amounts of money very mixed reaction to how that's working out whether it's actually preventing anything in the UK we have the minister has recently announced that he wants penalising things around social media and children so they focus quite strongly on children and then the other stuff is going to be sort of a voluntary code that they're hoping the tech industry will build itself so that's just some couple of European examples you know different examples over the world I think of how governments are approaching this in the Philippines I was reading about another different approach again and something else in Indonesia so I don't know where it will end up but I think that in the end these companies because of the limited power base because they all basically come from one small area of the world which is the west coast of America ultimately paying attention a bit to what's happening in the world but it's the US that will determine I think the changes of behaviour and I think it's quite hard to know how that's going to play out I don't quite know whether this Facebook drama is going to lead to a big intervention in and a joined up piece of US legislation I'd be interested in other people's views so to answer your question I think it's going to be a bit haphazard and I think it's going to be lots of different things happening and I think that in the end the power still does reside in such a small bit of the world which will pay attention when the US changes direction or does something and I'm not clear how that's going to play out what do you think yeah sorry it's in a microphone well I think you know regulations by government should be extremely targeted and narrow and I think that the main potential is for companies for social media companies to social network to to reform themselves to to have their own regulations to improve their practices and their mechanisms for on the one hand preserving freedom of expression but on the on the other hand preserving you know the quality of the public debate I do agree with you that these companies are are are called to improve the quality of democracy but we are still in a transition and there are so many things to be repaired and tackled. It's complex because the cultural picture is very complex you know I see that from Twitter it's you know your denomination of what freedom of expression is is very different to mine I would suspect and very different to what Jack in the US would think founder of Twitter so we have all these cultural parameters as well it's complex and I think you know this is a period of time where again as I say I don't think we should get hysterical I think it would be calm and see the long view of history and what we're trying to achieve and try and build iterate products and services to help as I think Twitter at beginning to do at the front gentlemen making you run around with the microphone. Hello thank you. I'm Michael from the mox reporting a Berlin based organization with offices in many other places. I find interesting that in the tech scene and you mentioned it also you use very much a frame of health yeah yesterday morning we talked about framing and now is the idea this whole space has to become healthy. Yes I find that a funny framing because it suggests something very biological but it's very much about society and society relations and relation between people. What I wonder a little bit is why we don't use other frames that are actually well established like human rights rule of law democracy which you know humanity has discussed already for a long time where we have binding documents where everybody agreed on things like freedom of expression etc and instead we move to this health metaphor for me it's a little bit makes a debate very hard to grab and also detached from debates about society and discussing society and relations and health terms for me it's odd. That's interesting and I agree with you I I don't use that expression myself I'm relaying what Twitter are working on is one of the metrics they're trying to grapple with is whether that's a good way of considering the public conversation if you like but Twitter is in one aspect I'm talking as me and everyone I would say we're not really talking about health and I would agree with you what we're talking about is responsibility and that's responsibility to building a society that works well in the digital world and that's different of course health is one aspect of that but so is as we tried to put in our principles not deepening existing inequalities dignity and rights for all which are already framed in the rule of law so I would agree with you I think that reinventing notions is sort of helpful but we also need to double down on things we know make society function but I think you know just um to two minutes on what I think Twitter is trying to do I think that there is a kind of growing consent idea in social sciences around what contributes to well-being and positive public engagement and I think that that is a helpful sort of discussion to have it's beyond just the rule of law and human rights I think it's about are we having a conversation where people are hearing each other and are we enabling society to make better decisions right a lady behind you in green hi hi yeah thank you hi thank you for your talk um yeah we said a lot of things of course we where are you from sorry oh sorry yeah I work I'm from Italy I work for a small anti-corruption italian NGO and we use obviously the digital mean to reach up to our people although Italy has a even broadband problems lacking broadband in some countries in some regions so actually my question is yeah so do we yeah the middle of London where I live no broadband anyway that's another thing of course yeah in fact like of course we said we're living in interesting times in a way you said you were optimistic I'm too but um you also said everything happens in the that happens in the United States in a way will impact on the rest of the world and I was also very intrigued by the concept of digital health right campaign you are launching and I was wondering whether you in a way for see or tackle the problem of the evolution of net neutrality which in the United States has taken place because I mean we haven't talked about this in this conference but I wonder how worried is that everyone that this could have an effect on us and should we all worry about it even here in Europe I just wanted to know your thought on that yeah it's interesting I I was coming back to my hotel in San Francisco on a trip and there was a bunch of people on the street doing a demonstration about net neutrality and I thought well only in San Francisco I cannot imagine in London a bunch of people getting out on the street and campaigning the concept of net neutrality maybe I'm doing my fellow Londoners a disservice um it's very important I have I'm not um in the detail enough to know really how it might affect us in Europe and the wider world but uh you know the yeah the it doesn't take um I believe much to really understand that the principles on which the internet is based as in you know fairness and equitable access for all are being undermined with this debate so it is important it is still fairly limited to a US forum but you know the danger is I guess the other bits of the world will adopt the same strategy but it's not something that not everyone is directly working on but I think all of us as uh internet users and activists should be taking it very seriously I also always take my cue from Tim Berners-Lee I think he's generally quite a good person to get your moral compass from and he's been very very active in saying this is a disaster so I think we should follow Tim yeah thank you maybe even in this forum conference we should take like a collective stance on it thank you campaign together for it just a proposal good thank you someone anyone else here in the front of this lady we can do two questions in the front maybe you can double up can we take both of them thank you hi hi my name is Sunita and I'm from the Institute of Global Change and my work focuses on providing advisory services to governments in Africa um so one is a very brief reflection and then a question so it seems to me from your talk that there tends to be a conflation between uh technology just as a means versus the content that is provided and and that kind of leads to this sort of sometimes confused debate as to where the responsibility sits whether it's the responsibility of the platform provider or the immediate content provider and what implications there are for freedom um so I think it might be useful to sort of distinguish that so that technology as a whole doesn't become the political football and then you get into the content conversation in terms of a question the guidelines that you have um shared with us I mean they seem great but my question is number in terms of practical application who determines whether those guidelines have been broken and then what are what is the consequence of that what where is the bite in these guidelines and with with respect to the former question about who gets to determine there is a risk I see once you begin to apply these guidelines in different context because as to who is divisive and and to what extent you you minimise kind of constructive criticism shall we say you know I can see that being a risk for a lot of civil society organisations and activists so so I'd be interested in how you see the practical application playing out good question thank you hi Martha my name is Tom Miller I work for the European Commission I think we might have been at university together but we can talk about that later um but I like this idea of a much of university responsibility is a new normal and I think it's a very useful concept and maybe in developing the developed countries where we have rule of law and separation of powers and strong institutions and fourth estate and so on maybe that's a bit easier to usher in but I work on development and developing countries where many of those things don't exist or only partially exist and also you have those huge power asymmetries already um to which to some degree the the internet social media and other technological changes are are worsening um what would you say to development partners like us about how we can usher in this new level of responsibility not just for already well developed countries but developing countries which in many ways could be heading off in the wrong direction in some areas thank you oh two easy peasy questions I will attempt attempt firstly I think you're absolutely right and my inarticulate ramblings are not distinguishing probably enough between the kind of infrastructure technology layer and the content on top of it you know it becomes murky because you know is amazon a piece of content or is it a you know it's so I think there's your right to draw that distinction I personally think we get too bogged down in whether these companies are publishers or platforms or whatever the hell they're trying to not be because they don't want particular type of regulation you know there's still something fundamentally good back to people which is that people feel uneasy about the level of um opaque the opaque nature of some of these products and services and I think you keep going back to what people are thinking about it then it's a sort of helpful distinction um and I so but I take your point we need to be careful what we're talking about the technology or we're talking about the layer on top of the technology I think that's absolutely valid and now I've forgotten the second part of your question I'm really sorry oh yes the application a vital part of this absolutely you know and the principles you know it's a bit like when you write these things down on a piece of paper any kind of code of contact code of conducts like so what but I think what we're trying to do is just frame some ideas that we will start to see whether or not we can implement with some things because this is a movement right we're going to build responsible technology we're going to have some people that are going to double it up and build products and services in maybe a slightly different way to how they might have done in the past and some people will reject it and then over time in the way we think about it or I think about it sometimes is think about fair trade movement in fashion and food and I used to be on the board of a retailer called Marks and Spencer in the UK and you know I remember when I first joined the board the kind of it was such a niche thing fair trade people sort of paid attention to it but Marks and Spencer was actually one of the most sustainable retailers in the world and it really drove this as an agenda and over time it became the normal because actually it wasn't okay for even very much bigger retailers like Tesco not to have and much more transparent supply chain and of course there's still a whole lot of terrible things that happen but it has moved considerably but not everyone buys fair trade donors and buys fair trade clothes but the movement itself has created change in the mainstream so that's what I'm hoping if we talk about responsible technology and we show practical applications like how you should build a product and service with good terms and conditions much clearer data privacy transaction and relationship you know right from the get go thinking about children and default settings for them then over time that might apply pressure to the bigger mainstream players so that's one aspect and that's what we're doing with one of our cohorts of organisations then the other aspect is about helping regulators and legislators and public policy people as I said understand a bit more about technology so that they can help play their part back to the first question in terms of regulation and how we can innovate around that you know there is going to be regulation more regulation of technology there just is it's kind of inevitable the danger is if it's bad and it doesn't help make the technology do what it should be able to do which is empower more people as opposed to just a couple of people in the tech world get really really rich so I think that there are loads of different bits in that puzzle I was trying to demonstrate around us as individuals the corporate sector and the legislature and the policy world where we're trying to do some projects to see if we can help move the dial and embed what responsible technology means does that hopefully answer your question a bit um to your point about the developing world yes I mean I'm not trying to make a case for um much beyond technology becoming more responsible as opposed to governments trying to become more responsible that feels somewhat outside my job spec um but I think that in what I've seen is that there's a and it feels like it here and listening to what you guys have been telling me since I arrived is there is a there has been for a long time but now is the moment perhaps where people who have been talking a lot more about what we as individuals can use technology for to empower us as opposed to just ordering another pizza on the internet or getting a cheap pair of shoes this is a moment that this is shifting that the products and services are becoming more important and more meaningful for people and people want to see how technology can help shape beyond just their own um self-interest they want to see how it can shape society and I think all you can do is just start right so you know I would encourage people to just start and to um share and swap ideas and stories and you know that's what our aspiration for everyone would be to be able to be a bit more of a convener in the centre of some of this stuff to help people spread stories but you know doesn't uh I've heard stories from all over the world of people who are building tech products that are you know much more for good than not for good and that is the beginning of you know what I would argue is going to be the wave of the next generation of technology so I'm actually as you can tell optimistic about this stuff well-being skeptical over here let's take these two gentlemen's questions I've got about five more minutes I think five yeah it's a really easy one oh good so uh in your role in the house of lords you've like you say who are you and where do you come from sorry I'll explain for democracy club hello hi um you're one of around 900 peers and you're also I mean we've had problems in the house of commons not having quite the right level of tech expertise I don't mean to put the weight of the world on your shoulders here what are you doing about improving our legislature's ability to deal with more to understand more regulation of the internet but I appreciate it's not your responsibility but you're the only person that no no I'm not I'm really not I'm really not it's quite can we just take the other gentleman's question as well and then hi my name is Margo I come from Citizen OS in Estonia hello I very might thank you for your presentation very much believe in putting values at the core of of developing new tools and solutions I was wondering what your in respect to the first sort of guideline which if I wrote it down correctly was not knowingly deep in existing inequalities I'm not sure about the research pertaining to UK or other countries but in Estonia all research points to age related digital divide where you know even in a in a very connected country skills drop off after age 65 or so and with countries in Europe looking at aging populations people who are aged 65 or more they have 20 30 maybe 40 years of of lifetime and and when we're building if people over 65 don't know how to buy a pair of shoes online that's less dramatic if we're building sort of civic tech solutions that are supposed to be making democracy better and making it more accessible to people then it's much more of a a burden not to deepen that age-related digital divide so I was just wondering how concerned you are about that and what's your thoughts on that good question thank you um okay to answer your first question I think there's a kind of institutional thing we're doing is to everyone then there's just me so um as I said to everyone's working on a bunch of projects to try and help both elected officials and unelected officials like the Lords as we did this mentoring programme with MPs which was small scale but very effective and all the MPs loved having their digital understanding raised so now trying to secure funding to extend that we're doing some work with select committees because we thought actually as opposed to empowering just the individual why don't we help the actual work so we've got some proposals out to how we could help select committees which are scrutinising aspect of our governmental system look at what they're scrutinising with a bit more of a technology lens so I guess that's focusing more on the work than the individual so that's what everyone is up to and you know any funders out there would like to give us more money to wrap that programme up and do it across the world brilliant um for me personally yes I mean that I applied to be in the House of Lords right there's a lot of people who get appointed and then there are two people a year who can apply to become independent peers like me and I applied because I thought I've enjoyed this public policy work I've done in government and I want to try and contribute it's a funny old place and so I'm you know I don't mean to sound grand or arrogant I'm one person and I just try and do two things I try and be present and talk about technology because it's you know in a health debate you'll be amazed how many people don't even mention the internet back to health or even you know in a national security debate no one mentions cyber so I just try and be present and talk about this stuff which hopefully you know just changes the bit of the dynamic and then the second thing is I'm amassing a group of peers with me who are interested in how we might be able to lead a bit more on thinking about some models of regulation and innovation and policy so you know there are different levers you can pull in the Lords I sit on the joint committee for national security strategy which is a joint committee with the House of Commons looking and overseeing the national security strategy and it's been really interesting in that because your MPs and peers and the MPs the elected officials are have such a different obviously motivation and a political game that they're trying to play all you know very effective very many of them and the peers have a completely different role again and it's how you bring together those two aspects of our governmental system and make sure that both are equipped for what they need in the modern world and it's not easy but I'm trying my small bit and your question I've now totally forgotten did I answer it already no yes the digital divide well this is something I worked on a lot in the UK you know it's easy to forget that half the world is still not on the internet right it's very easy to forget that and although the rate of pace is accelerating I believe it is a responsibility of governments I believe this is so strongly especially in the light of what's been happening with Facebook I don't want Mark Zuckerberg to be the person connecting in the world I really don't I feel this as an enormous point of philosophy philosophical principle some people might disagree it makes me very very uncomfortable if that is who we're going to let make sure this basic human right is enabled around the world so I think it is the responsibility of governments I did work just parochial in the UK we have about 10 million people in the UK who don't use the internet it's often unsurprisingly older people and very poor people I think it's absolutely essential that when we're building brothers and services we build it for people who are not connected as much as who are and we have to work out how to get that bit connected but we shouldn't just assume that it's the internet and digital is the answer as you know heard in the panel previous to the break it's often you know the phone or other world solutions that we need to make sure we help people transition through so I think things need to be digital because we're living in 2018 not 1818 but we have to be cognizant of human needs and people at the heart of whatever products and service we're designing for example do everyone build something for people who are dying might seem a strange cohort of people to choose to build something for but it was on the first projects we did we build stuff as well as talk about stuff and we chose people who are dying because I thought if you can help people at that most hideous piece of their lives and you can show that technology can help in an effective way then you can basically show that by using the furthest verse as the example you can build something for the vast majority of people in the middle if that makes sense and of course it wasn't because the people who are dying are often bashing around on the internet but it was because the people caring for them the doctors looking after them didn't have a way of collaborating around simple bits of information and data about that person and so what we discovered is that if you're dying on average you have 40 different people in your care because you might have a physio you might have a kidney specialist you might have an incontinence expert you might have a care you might have a relative it's a lot of people and there was no central way to look at information so what we built was a very simple collaborative healthcare record very very simple very simple tech but it started from the human need that they just wanted to be able to see all of the information about them and that was as true if you were a doctor as if you were a carer as if you were the patient so I think if you start with the person and you build the product and service from there that's the way you should do it but it is absolutely vital we do not lose sight of how many people are not able to access technology for whatever reason and to me that is a social and moral cause that we must just keep talking about all the time okay one more question the lady at the back in the red top from patiently waiting with your hand up let's please make it an easy one you all must be exhausted of hearing me my brain is shrinking hi thank you for a great talk I'm Louise from my society hello I wondered what your thoughts are on the relationship between responsibility and technology and the extent to which technology is understood by the people who use it yeah it feels like if you don't understood you don't understand the tool you're using then you are being done to by it rather than doing something with it yes we live in an age where we don't understand everything nobody even working in technology understands the full stack but if you don't understand the business model that seems dangerous I totally agree with you um and you know this is a huge part of the work that we're doing at dot everyone you know back to the gentleman's question about the digital divide you know if you have a set of people who've never used the internet it's quite easy in a way to tick off a set of check boxes can they do they have basic digital skills can they search safely online can they you know perform a transaction can they do whatever bunch of things you determine that they should be able to do it's much harder to then say okay that might be the low level of okay you can use the internet to then move to do you understand it what is that relationship that we all need to feel a bit more empowered by to make people feel as though um you know the 12% of people who feel that it's uneasy what technology is doing society to be 92% and this is something we're thinking about a lot so we talk a lot about digital understanding and what that is and what that means you know is that just um being able to know how to ask the questions of the service you're using is it that you understand what the transaction is all the time that you if you're putting your data out that you understand about that is it that you know how to find the privacy settings on various app you're using different metrics and things that we're looking at and that's why we're working on this it's not about health but it's a digital public health campaign which we hope will be a wide scale just in the UK initially um attempt to help people be able to ask the questions about technology that you're implying are really important and that we would absolutely agree with your importance so I'm going to have working with a big media partner to build out messages so that people can understand a bit more about what it is that they are doing when they're using technology and feel a bit more empowered by it and a bit less anxious but to me that isn't about a checklist of things it's more about a frame of mind and a cultural way of behaving you know feeling as though you are the driver not that you're being driven in a in a scary way so I totally agree with you I think that this is a huge enormous challenge it's not something that ever ends you know the parameters will be moving and shifting all the time but it's about resilience and about the cultural ability to keep asking the right questions and feel like we do still have choices in all of this we don't have to have it done to us that feels like a good place to end thank you for being such a kind audience.