 Hi, I'm Roseanne and I'm sitting in for James Swannick today on this podcast. I am an enrollment coach and client journey coach with the Project 90 program. And I always like to tell people that I have one of the best jobs in the world because over a 90 day period I watch people transform their lives. Today we are going to talk about finding peace through identifying our attachment wounds. And we're going to do that by talking to an expert about that. I have with me today Troy Love from Yuma, Arizona. Troy serves as the president and clinical director of the Yuma counseling services and is the founder of Finding Peace Consulting. He has over 20 years of experience in the mental health field. I actually came to know Troy because years ago I used to services, quite a few of them actually, went to a Finding Peace retreat, which was amazing. So let's start talking to Troy. Troy, welcome and thank you for joining me on my first podcast with an expert. You are more than welcome, my pleasure. While I have experienced the Finding Peace retreat, I know you have worked on a workbook that sells on Amazon. It's kind of a self-help workbook. But tell me about how all this Finding Peace stuff came about for you, how it came to writing this book and doing these conferences and what you do. So I'm going to take you way back. I was about 23 years old and I'd finally decided that I wanted to be a social worker, but I didn't really know exactly what that meant. And I'm sitting in a college class and my professor is standing in front of the room and she said, if you want to be an amazing social worker, you really need to do your own work. And I thought, what is she talking about? I don't have any work. I'm fine. I'm good. She doesn't know what she's talking about. Turns out she really did know what she was talking about. I graduated with my bachelor's and went to the University of Pittsburgh for my master's and social work. And part of that program, I had to do an internship and I was put into the Gateway Allegheny County outpatient rehab program for those who are struggling with drugs and alcohol. And it was my first real experience with therapy. I was terrified, to be honest, because I'd never done drugs. I'd never drank alcohol before. And so I was really afraid that the guys, the people in this group were not going to accept me, that they were going to think that I thought I was better than them or something like that. And I went, but terrified, and I just went with an open book because I wanted to learn about this. And as the therapist was working with them, she started to explore some of their past. And she had some various exercises that she would have them do. And the more that they shared their stories, the more that I realized I could relate. Turns out I was an addict, I was addicted to porn, didn't even know that that was a thing at the time. But everything that they were sharing, I could resonate with. And that really started me to do my work, like my professor had told me and put me on a trajectory to start understanding, like, what is this all about and why am I struggling with my addiction and why are they struggling with their addiction? And I started to go to therapy and I went to retreats myself and I read hundreds of books trying to understand that. And over that process, I began to create a model for myself that would help me understand for me what this path of recovery would look like. And so then I started teaching it to my clients. I started when I, about 10 years ago, I opened up human counseling services and I started teaching the process to my clients and they started asking, well, where can I learn more about this? In my head, you know, I don't know, they said, well, you should probably write a book. So I finally did. In 2017, I wrote the Finding Peace workbook and it became an Amazon bestselling book. And it really began to be like a, it's a map really for how we recover from the different things that we're struggling with, whether it's depression or alcoholism or any kind of addiction. It's just a map and it's what I use at least to work with the clients that I have to help them find greater peace and joy and happiness in their lives. Right. And, Troy, when I saw you, I remember I even have this picture saved in my phone because it was so important to me that every time we were talking, you're like, which attachment wound is that it's a picture of the law, right? So tell people what attachment wounds are because I could zero on in on one, but I know our listeners are going, we hear the same things in Project 90. This is why I'm like, Troy, we need to talk to Troy because the basis for people's drinking habits are very much rooted in these things. So tell me about what's on you, tell the listeners what's on your wall. Yeah, so we as human beings were wired for a connection, biologically, spiritually, neurologically, physically, we are wired to be connected to each other. I mean, you think about when we when we're in the womb of our mother, we are literally connected to our mother. So there is we are wired as humans to be connected to each other. But then things happen that sever those connections or at least damage them from time to time. And when they do, I call those attachment wounds that something has happened that has damaged the relationship that I had with somebody. And now there's lasting pain. There are there are six attachment wounds. Loss is the wound that happens primarily when somebody dies, but not always where you had something in your life that was significant and then then that it's not there anymore. So whether that is a loved one who passed away. I've I work with a lot of military individuals and the growing up, they would in a military family, you move every three years. And so having to say goodbye to friends every three years, that's a loss. For example, people have lost their job. People have maybe lost a leg or an arm. That's a loss. So the loss can be anything that you had it and then it's gone. And it's not that anybody did it to you. It's just that's part of the journey that we have. But for many people that can be incredibly painful. The next is neglect. And there is the child protective services version of neglect where the mom and dad are nowhere to be seen. And the two year old baby is wandering around in the middle of the street at three o'clock in the morning with a poopy diaper. That's a pretty extreme version of neglect for a lot of us. We never had that kind of neglect. The definition that I use is that even though my basic needs were being met and sometimes they weren't, but even if my basic needs were not being met, the the needs that I had to get the attention from my family was not there. So even though we're all in the same house, nobody's paying attention to me. And that's a form of neglect. And that can be a really painful wound for some people. The next one is rejection where you're being told by other people that you're not wanted, you're not picked, you're not included. There's something wrong with you. You don't belong here. The next wound is abandonment. And abandonment is when somebody was in your life and then they just left. There's no explanation. There's no closure. There's no understanding about why they left that they were here one moment and then they're gone. The next wound is betrayal and betrayals when you had a relationship of trust with somebody and then they did something that violated that trust. So in a relationship, it might be that they cheated on you at work, they may have lied or taken credit for something that was yours. They may have stolen something from you. And then the last is abuse, sexual abuse, physical abuse, those kind of abuse. So each one of those is a different wound. So one of the activities I do with people sometimes is just having them feel where they feel that wound in their body. And they will feel it in different places when we do a body scan. But the bottom line is that they're like sunburns. And if you've ever had a sunburn, you can still function. You can still do your day to day life. But if somebody bumps up against your sunburn, it immediately causes pain. And that's what these attachment wounds are like. You can function, you can go about your day to day life. But somebody does something, somebody says something and bumps up against one of those wounds, it immediately causes pain. And if we're not aware of that process, a lot of times what we do, especially with addicts, as addicts, is we will then try to just numb that pain. We'll try to find a way to just numb it rather than becoming curious about how can I heal that pain rather than numb it? Right. I remember it was it was interesting to me. And I'd like to ask you, like, for me, every time we address a subject matter, you go look at the wall and which attachment wound are we talking about? It always like zeroed in on one. For me, it was rejection, always felt rejection. Do you find that people zero in on one? I mean, or is there sometimes two or three or because mine was always the same rejection? I was talking to a client earlier today and he did the wound assessment that's in the Finding Peace book. And he said, you know, I can resonate with all six wounds, but really the top three that stand out for me are loss, abandonment and rejection. He says, I was abused, but that really isn't a big wound for me. And I said, yeah, that can be the case. So, you know, some people may have all six wounds. Some people maybe have one or two. It may be dependent on what the situation is as to why that particular wound is being stirred up. But one of the reasons why I really emphasize people identifying what the wound is is because it also provides the remedy for the wound. So if the wound for yours was rejection, the opposite of rejection is acceptance. And so when I can identify, oh, that's my rejection wound that stirred up, I need to find a way to find acceptance, whether I need to work on accepting myself or I need to reach out to people who have unconditional regard for me. I need to find a way to tend to that wound in a healthy way. And that's the absolute value of identifying what the wound is, because it helps us know how to heal it. Give us some examples of how once you identify, how are you helping people? I mean, now that you're saying that, I kind of remember rejection. And I still that, you know, I still deal with that wound. But I'm going to 100 or 2000 to 5000 times better handling that. And I'm trying to like, you know how you said, I'm trying to make that sunburn go away. And it is, but it is practice, isn't it? Yeah. And self-care. And so just you doing this webinar, like this is really vulnerable for you. That that opens up the possibility of being rejected all over the place. And yet you're willing to lean into it and you're willing to do it because you believe in the message of the podcast and the work that you do. And so you're willing to endure a little bit of rejection if it blesses somebody else's life. And that's part of the healing is finding purpose. We use our wounds to drive how we can make the world a better place. I tell people, though, that it's not the wound itself that causes us the problem, because like my client said this, I listen to your podcast. Let me finish the sentence. It's not the wound is the stories we tell ourselves. Yes. That's right. I love that saying every time I listen to one of your podcasts, I hear that and I'm like, I love that. I would listen to your podcast just to listen to the beginning. Well, good. Well, it's true. Kind of like the client who this morning has said, you know, my biggest wound is abandonment, but I definitely was abused. The story that's being told about abuse was, well, that wasn't about me. That was about my parents and they had some serious issues and they needed to work those out. That wasn't about me. So it's not as painful. But when we look at the rejection wound, that story is, well, I am there. I'm flawed. I'm defective. There really is something wrong with me. And so I don't know how to shake myself loose of that core belief. Whereas with the abuse belief, it's like, that wasn't my fault. That was their fault. And so it's it doesn't have the same impact. So when we're looking at the wounds, there's always a story connected to those wounds that hurt the most. And part of healing is identifying what's the story? And can I change the story? Can I change the core belief? So that when that chain reaction happens, when the wound gets hit, what doesn't automatically show up as the negative core belief? But when that wound gets hit, the positive core belief shows up that I can do this. I'm mad or I have talents and abilities. I can do this. That's what we really want to be able to help people do is change that story. Right. Yeah. I see. I see so many similarities and and many of the things you're addressing in there. We address a lot of gratitude and journey. Is that something that you do in your practice as well? Gratitude, practicing gratitude is such an amazing practice. There's research that shows that practicing gratitude can have the same and effects even better sometimes. The same equivalent as taking antidepressant medications that that when you're writing down three things that you're grateful for every day and you're doing that mindfully every day for even a week or two, it changes some things in your brain and really helps you begin to shift some of the stories that you're telling yourself. So it's it's a beautiful practice, one that I highly recommend. Yeah, we actually do we try and really stretch our brains and do 20. And it's not easy. It's not easy. But James always talks about the reticular activating system. Kind of love that. And we focus on, you know, because as we go through our day, if we put these things in our head, we're we're looking for confirmation all day for this thing. It's why when somebody says James loves this instead of saying I don't and don't want to have a drink, right? It's like you're focusing on having a drink versus and the example he uses, he goes, OK, close your eyes. And then I tell you, don't think about a pink elephant. Right. What just happened? And yeah, and it's instead of just we look for confirmation of what we've put in our brain. So if we're if we have lots of negative thinking about a person or a thing or an event, it's just we look for evidence of that. But if we can look for evidence of gratefulness and positivity and finding good in everything we look at, it's how we spend our life. And yeah, I'm kind of living proof. That's amazing. It is. It is. So you're doing that. You started your conferences, right? A couple of years ago. Mm hmm. The finding peace retreat and very powerful. I went to one very, very powerful. But what are you doing in there that's really making a difference for people? What do you think is the? I think there's a couple of things that make retreats like that really amazing. Number one, you get to get away from life for just a couple of days. And we go up into the mountains of Prescott in Arizona, which is a beautiful part of the country. And you just get to go out in nature. And research shows that just being out in nature can elevate our sense of being just breathing beautiful air and those those kind of things. So I think that in and of itself is powerful. And then what we do at the Finding Peace Retreat is we walk people through the model that is found in the Finding Peace Workbook and we help them come to a place where they're able to discover or relearn sometimes their core truth that they matter, that they're enough, that they have value, that they have purpose. We walk them through the process of helping them come to a place where they can discover that or relearn that again and then try to set up a system so that when they go home, they can hold on to that and they can then make some changes when they get home that helps vibrate and resonate with the purpose that they've discovered while at the retreat. So that's really what we're hoping to do. And in the process, we explore the wounds. We look at how we can heal those wounds. We we look at some of the things that maybe have gotten in the way and what we can do to work through those so we can feel more powerful and strong in and of ourselves. I remember one of the most powerful experiences that I had at the retreat was you had put people I'm assuming you still do this because it's pretty powerful, but you put people in a circle. And I don't remember what the instruction was, but people got maybe half the people in the circle, half the people were standing and we were whispering in people's ears. Oh, yes. That was like like it gave me the feel. So describe what you're doing and because that was just incredible. It made me feel I wasn't alone. And I think we find that a lot in Project 90. I'm an enrollment coach and this is a big secret that people keep and, you know, it's like that story they're telling themselves, thinking nobody else feels it and be able to release that. And be in a community of people that feel the same way. It's just that alone breaks the cloud, right? Right. Because what we're really trying to deal with is shame. And Brene Brown defines shame as the deep and abiding belief and feeling that I'm flawed and defective and therefore unworthy of love and belonging. And so when you go to a 12-step group, for example, or you go to a group and you end up, you know, everybody's terrified to walk in one of those rooms the first time because there's so much shame. It's just saying you are a horrible person. I can't believe all the despicable things you've done. You can't even get your crap together. They walk into that room and they share with others like, hey, I'm struggling. And then five other people say, me too. And then they give you their phone number at the end. That really breaks apart some of that shame. And we start to see the truth that maybe I'm not a horrible person. Maybe I've made some choices that aren't the greatest, but I have value. I matter. And that's really what we want to be able to help people experience not just at the reef treat, but in general. We want people to develop those connections where we can be real. We can share the parts of ourselves that maybe we are ashamed of and then have people love on us and say, hey, I struggle with that too. I understand that you're a good person. That's, I think, the magic of work that we do around all of that. Well, and it's the magic of why I'm so open and honest about my journey because I recognize how many people it helps. And as an enrollment coach, I just got off the phone with somebody and like, oh my gosh, I've never talked to somebody about this. It's so comforting and I feel comfortable with you. And I'm like, well, that means you're going to be comfortable with us. Right? So, but anyway, okay, circle. What was the circle of exercise? Because you're in rematch. Well, the circle, what that, the premise, I'm the one to give people away, the things that we do. Oh, that's right. It's all right. It's okay. But the principle is that we keep. The principle, yes, the principle. The principle that we're doing in that particular activity is helping people learn how to get some of their needs spent by hearing the positive affirmations that maybe they've been longing to hear from others their whole life that they've never heard. And so they're getting those positive affirmations from others and they're also giving those to other people as well. And it's a beautiful, powerful exercise that really does impact a lot of people where that may be the first time or the first time in a really long time where they heard something that positively powerful about them. It was a pretty powerful thing. Okay, let's transition into self-care because that's a lot of things. Again, as I'm talking to you, I'm realizing more and more of the similarities. We talked a lot about self-care and we deal a lot with self-care and Project 90. But tell me about why that's important and what you do. You know, this is really a layman. It's not a lame analogy. It's an overused analogy, but the reason why it's overused is it works so well. Is that when you're on an airplane and they tell you like if the oxygen levels in the airplane shift, the oxygen's gonna fall down from the ceiling and then you need to put your mask on before you put it on other kids. Like if you have a child, make sure you put your mask on first before you put it on your child. It's a really overused analogy, but the reason why it works is because that's a form of self-care. Cause if I don't put the oxygen on myself, I might pass out and then I'm not gonna be any good to anybody. And then my child will pass out too. So, but if I can put the oxygen on my mask, on me first, and I'm a much better able to be able to do the other things that I need to do. And so that's the analogy. When I do self-care, it's not selfish. When I do self-care, it's because I'm trying to take care of myself in a way that I can then show up for the people that matter the most to me or the things that I'm passionate about. And so it's absolutely vital for us to do self-care. A lot of us aren't very good at it because of shame. That says, well, you're not worthy. You're not good enough. And so we really have a hard time saying, okay, I'm going to practice mindfulness today. I'm going to practice gratitude. That's a form of self-care. I'm going to go schedule an appointment with a dentist. That's a form of self-care. And sometimes we don't do that because we think I can't afford that or I'm not worthy of that, but it's absolutely vital to how we then show up in the world. Yeah, it's interesting because I've had to work on that as well. And one of the weirdest things that costs nothing to do is just take a bath. Because, you know, there's such a luxurious thing associated with baths. And it's for somebody who runs from thing to thing to thing to thing. For me, it's, you know, it's a 45 minute endeavor all about me. I can listen to what I want. I can think about what I want. I can, there's bubbles everywhere. There's, I have a jacuzzi jet, you know, if I want to turn that on. And it is really surprising. Yeah, it's a form of self-care. It's really surprising how much I think I paid attention to myself today because, yeah, just getting out of your stuff. What other forms, can you think of other forms of self-care that you recommend? Well, I usually look at them in four different areas. One is physical and one is emotional. One is spiritual and one is social. So what's one thing that I can do to take care of myself physically today? What's one thing that I can do to take care of my emotional self today? What's one thing that I can do to take care of my social self today? And what's one thing that I could do to take care of my spiritual self today? They don't have to be big. What I usually recommend people do is just pick one and try that for a week. So if I'm gonna take care of myself physically, maybe I'm gonna do 10 push-ups every day for a week, or maybe I'm gonna try and get eight hours of sleep every night, or maybe I'm gonna try to avoid sugar this week, or whatever that happens to be for physically. I'm just gonna pick one thing and I'm gonna work on that this week. Emotionally, what's something I can do? I'm gonna listen to beautiful music. I'm gonna write in my journal. I'm gonna take a bath. I'm gonna, I'm going to do something that I find enjoyable, whatever that happens to be. Social, what am I gonna do? I'm gonna, how can I connect with somebody? I'm gonna call a friend. I'm gonna email somebody. I'm gonna text somebody. I'm gonna reach out. And then spiritual, what's something I can do spiritually. I might meditate. If I'm religious, I might go to church back when COVID stops. I might say a prayer. I might listen. I might read scriptures. I might go volunteer somewhere. Just picking something in each one of those four categories is a way to do self-care because you've just set up a platform for yourself where each one of those places is being taken care of a little bit. I can show up a little bit more now because I've taken care of those four areas. Yeah, that's amazing. Those are the practices that I've definitely instilled and seen a difference. I was doing a Facebook live event and also I've been listening to podcasts myself about some of the most, or some of the habits of the most successful people in the world are morning routines. And I set myself up a morning routine and just doing kind of some of the things that you're talking about, making my bed. Because I never want, making my bed makes me feel like I'm clean and organic. Taking vitamins, you know what I mean? It makes me feel like I'm taking care of my health. I sit and I do meditate and pray and read scriptures. I do my daily gratitudes because that's an important part. And I walk. I don't want to make it too strenuous on myself but I get some physical activity. So I pretty much checked up a lot of those things. That's amazing. So yeah, yeah. Well, that's cool. You know, it's funny, I was gonna, you and I had talked about a part two to our series if we get in it. And I just want to like kind of get this out there because I was just thinking some of the other important work that you do that I realized not even a lot of, not a lot of people know about this. So it's called EMDR. And I might say EMDR for part two. I was actually talking to somebody in Project 90 about this and he's a, he is a special forces, retired special forces guy. And he had talked about the fact that he has PTSD. I'm like, have you ever heard of EMDR? And he's like, what? So briefly, I mean, maybe we can, these attachment wounds that you're talking about, they create or is it the attachment wounds that create the trauma? Like what comes first, the chicken or the egg? Talk about EMDR, how things are created to where we might need that help and what it is briefly anyway. Maybe we can do a whole discussion of it. So the attachment wounds are why we have to do EMDR. So somebody who has PTSD, challenges are they have at least one and probably several of those wounds. So if we're talking about somebody who is in the military and they watch their buddy get blown up by an IUD, well, there's a loss right there. There might be betrayal. Like I feel like I didn't show up for him. I feel like why was I the one that stuck around and not him? There might be abandonment, like there wasn't support, whatever that happens to be, but those wounds are very much tied to that. And then the stories, remember it's the stories, what EMDR does, EMDR is a process where we stimulate the right and left side of your brain almost as if you were in REM sleep. So very quickly, back and forth, left, right, left, right, and we do it in a variety of different ways. Basically what it does is we think about the memory that's causing the distress and the negative core belief that's connected to it. And then we've reprocessed that and end up going back and forth, right, left, right, left in the part of the brain. And nobody can explain why it does what it does, to be honest, but something happens where the distress that the person has about that memory is no longer there, it's gone. And then we rewrite the negative core belief into something that is much more positive and something that works really well for the person going forward in their life. So it's a beautiful way of processing the trauma and rewriting the core belief into something that's more purposeful and meaningful than the negative ones that we're keeping the person stuck. And for those people listening, because EMDR with you is through sounds, right, but it's actually originated as an eye movement thing. I've tried both and the eye movement didn't much help me. The sounds that you helped me with were incredible. And from a layman's point of view, I would describe it as you have a reactive side and a rational side and they're not talking to one another. And a lot of times we react to things because maybe we hit the sunburn leg. Yeah. And yeah, and oh my gosh, it just was incredible. But how does somebody find, okay, www.emdria.org, I'm gonna repeat that again. This is how to find an EMDR practitioner online in your area. Is this worldwide? Yeah, worldwide. Okay. If you wanna find an EMDR practitioner, you can find them at www.emdria.org slash find-a-therapist.slash. Yeah, and there are, you have had success online with that as well, right, with the eye movement. I didn't use you with the eye movement. I used somebody else. Yeah, it is possible to do it. It was originally called EMDR eye movement desensitization and reprocessing is what the whole name is. When it was originally developed by Francine Shapiro, they used the eyes to do the eye movement. By Francine Shapiro, they used the eyes to do this back and forth, back and forth with the eyes. But then they realized, well, what do you do with somebody who may be blind? How do we do EMDR with that? And so then they started to think, well, maybe we can do it with audio. So they put headphones on them and back and forth. And then what if somebody's blind and deaf? Like what do we do? So we learned that you can do it with touch too. So right, left, right, left. So there's a lot of different ways to do it. And it is possible to do it online. Usually we do that either through having them watch a screen where their eyes go back and forth on the screen or they are tapping themselves back and forth. Right. Right and left. And we actually have an EFT therapist that does tapping with Project 90. She's focused on our alumni. She does that with our alumni and very, very good. So I didn't realize that was a subset of... It's different. Emotionally focused therapy, which is the tapping is different. You literally are just tapping the right and left side of your body. That's what we do with EMDR. But the tapping you're talking about is another way of reinforcing positive corbelies where you're tapping the top of your head and then your eyes and your nose and like, yeah. So that's, and it's another, the thing with finding pieces that it fits with a lot of different modalities. EMDR just happens to be the one that I've been trained in. One of my colleagues absolutely believes in internal family systems or IFS as another form of therapy that does a lot of trauma work. There's somatic therapy, which is all in your body and Peter Levine does a lot of that work where we just focus on your body. So there's lots of different modalities to heal the trauma as a person who maybe has trauma. Find the one that works for you. If that one isn't working, go find another one. But I guess... Can you take a moment? I know we might be running out of time, but can you take a moment and define trauma because a lot of people think it's witnessing somebody blow up or explode or it can be so much less than that, but be so the same destructive. And I want maybe a therapist kind of description of what trauma is without associating some massive events like the murder. Exactly. So if you look at the wounds, loss, neglect, rejection, abandonment, betrayal, and abuse, each one of those is a traumatic event. And trauma is that something has disrupted your life in a very painful way. Something has disrupted your life. But we have what we call big T trauma or capital T trauma, which is like a car accident or watching your friend get hurt, like blown up or something. And a lot of us maybe don't have those big T traumas, but there's also little T traumas. And so for example, one of my little T traumas is rejection that came from being bullied a lot, especially in middle school for three and a half years, every day in gym I was made fun of and called names and chased and beat up. It wasn't, and not any one of those was a really big T trauma. It was not that significant, but when you added them up day after day, after day, after day, that little T trauma became a really big T trauma of rejection. So when you're looking at these wounds and the trauma, it may not be big, but you may have been death by a thousand cuts is what the saying says. It may have been little ones, little wounds that happened over and over and over and over again that accumulate into something that's really painful for you as you're moving forward. Right, and that create the reaction. Well, I know I have to get you off to your clients and probably figure out a way to get you back because I always love listening to you and learning from you. It's always a great experience, but I do want our listeners to know about how to find you and how to find about the finding peace retreats that you're doing online right now when COVID opens up. Where do you see? We are doing it in person. Oh, you are, where? Up in Prescott. Oh, well, if anybody wants to visit Prescott and have a reason to come to the U.S. or across the state, yeah, it's beautiful. We definitely, we're following the CDC guidelines to keep everyone safe, but we decided that we're going to do it and we can practice social distancing and we can keep everyone safe. And so we are going to do it in person. We had to cancel the last two and I'm like, I don't want to cancel it again. Well, hopefully with these vaccines coming out there'll be a lot more vaccinated people from numbers will be going down, but you have a lot of resources and I want to give you the opportunity to share those resources with the people who have been listening. So the easiest way to find me is going to TroyLlove.com. And there you will find a link to findingpeaceacademy.com, a one word finding peace academy. And that's where you can find the retreat that's coming up. We have an online course for couples, the finding peace for couples online course. We have the online self-paced class for finding peace that you can walk through by yourself. And in the future, we will probably be doing some virtual trainings on finding peace as well that are live, but virtual. So there's a lot coming up, but if you go to TroyLlove.com you can actually get a free, the free finding peace five day challenge. You just give us your email address and then every day for five days you get a little like three or four minute video that explains part of the process. And a lot of people have found that to be incredibly helpful. Just even doing that, they've been able to find greater peace in their lives. Right. And you also, as we mentioned, you have a podcast called finding peace. And we have to type in your name too. You can just type in finding peace podcast and it should come up or if you go to TroyLlove.com you can, there's a link to the podcast there, but it is on Spotify and it's also on the Apple iTunes and anywhere where your podcasts are being hosted. Yeah, same with us. And so transitioning over to us, James asked me to ask you all to rate these podcasts because rating moves us up in the priority list and people are enjoying these podcasts. And this is my first time interviewing an expert. So I would love a rating and some comments and maybe some suggestions. I am an enrollment coach again with project 90. And if that's something you're considering make sure you touch base with me on Facebook at Roseanne Forte, F-O-R-T-E. And my first name is R-O-S-E, space capital A-N-M. Also, if you can't find me everybody knows how to find James Swannock. So, and I'm sure you'll get the commercial but feel free to message James Swannock personally and he will forward you my schedule to book an appointment. So thank you Troy. I'd say we've got a lot of information out there and I really appreciate it. It was a great time. It's been a pleasure. Thank you for having me. Okay, have a good day. Thanks for listening to the Alcohol Free Lifestyle podcast. I wanna load you up with some free stuff right now. So if you wanna go to jamesswannock.com slash guide I will send you my quit alcohol guide which has helped six figure entrepreneurs and top professionals reduce or quit drinking. You can also text the word quit guide to the number 44222 if you're in the US of course. It doesn't really work anywhere outside of the US but if you're in the US on your mobile phone and you'd like that guide text the word quit guide to the number 44222 or you can go to jamesswannock.com slash guide. If you'd like to schedule a free 15 minute call with one of my top coaches just an exploratory call to see if or how we can help you then you can go to jamesswannock.com slash schedule or you can text the word project 90 to the number 44222 if you're listening in the US on a mobile phone. That's jamesswannock.com slash schedule or you can text the word project 90 that's one word project 90 to the number 44222. Feel free to send me a direct message over on my Instagram account which is at jamesswannock. You can also watch video episodes of this podcast and a series of other educational videos on my YouTube channel which is jamesswannock.com or you can direct message me on Facebook at jamesswannock.com official. And finally a request would you please now write a short review of the podcast inside of the Apple podcast app on your phone or on iTunes on your desktop computer would you please give the show five stars and write a quick one or two sentence review this will help the show get in front of even more listeners potentially transforming someone's life. You can rate and review the show inside of your Apple podcast app on your phone or over on iTunes on your desktop. Thank you so much and I'll catch you next time.