 I was wondering whether we are to come in. Good evening friends and today on behalf of Beyond Law CLC, it gives us immense pleasure to the effect that we have amongst us a very erudite speaker coupled with a judge who had a role in practice during his time. I was reading one of the articles written by one of my close friends by Amit George Justice Shah had committed the offence. He gave that he was so work-holic that he was also put on the toes. And the way he assimilated the facts coupled with the law was an art. He said that it was one of the nuances between us. We have been hearing like me, hearing him on the YouTube etc. and his judgments speak for the fact that more knowledge for him. Especially in respect of meetings and various nuances as to how the law could be cut out. Today we thought, why not understand, we all speak of the essentials of drafting. And arbitration is one of the facets which we keep on intending to learn. And what are the essentials of the agreements for drafting of the arbitration? Therefore, since a lot of students also have a passion for that. We had amongst us the Delhi Metropolitan Education, DME, known as a very famous college for the purpose of law. In Delhi it has created its own niche and in India also gradually graduating in it. And being a knowledge partner they also felt that having a person to share knowledge like Rajiv, Sai and Law is always a pleasure. And one of the antidotes which Amit God had written that Mr. Shah, this is Sahil, asked one of his beyond to bring the act of coffee posa. And the way normally he says he said drink coffee posa and beyond instead of bringing the book of coffee posa, brought coffee and so on. So that's how sometimes a good human is also brought in the courtroom and outside the courtroom. Without taking much time I would request sir to give his insights. Already there was some delay because of the technical issue. Over to you sir. Thank you Mr. Chaitra. Thank you for the kind words. And thank you particularly for allowing me to speak on this subject. Very good evening to all of you who have connected in this on this platform today. Friends as I said earlier that the subject of today has been a subject which has been very dear to me I wouldn't say from my lawyer days because I never had an opportunity to think of it in those terms. But as a judge and having sat on the arbitration roster at a fairly initial stage of my judgeship this thought has been coming to me regularly. And now that I have demoted office as a judge and I'm partly involved in arbitration. Of course I haven't there is a long gestation period in any arbitration to develop. But again this thought has been coming to me on a daily basis whenever I have any matter before me or whenever I hear the address of different councils. So when Mr. Chaitra approached me for speaking on this platform he suggested a variety of issues of the end subjects. But I requested him to allow me to speak on this because though I have had an occasion to comment on this in bits from time to time at different forums and in some of my orders but I have never had an occasion to deal with this subject as a standalone topic or the subject. So Mr. Chathar was kind enough to allow me to choose the topic and subject and this is what I am going to place for the consideration of all of you. Our friends arbitration, see though it was devised as an alternate to dispute resolution in the courts as a less formal and a more pragmatic method of dispute resolution free of all technicalities. But unfortunately failed to achieve that purpose and maybe largely because the arbitration were conducted by the same lawyers who were appearing in the courts and the arbitrators were retired judges a tendency developed to conduct the arbitration in the same way in which litigation was being conducted and all of which you see a court was while conducting a suit because arbitration is an alternative to a suit or a original list before the court on the civil side or matters which can be brought by way of a suit. So the court is bound by procedure and since the court system runs to at least two or three rounds of appeals there was always a view at some stage or the other that the procedure though repeatedly called by the courts as the handmade of justice having not been followed and therefore the decision being set aside maybe after following the procedure the same outcome was received. But procedure in the court at times and those times were not few and far in between in fact those times were I should say most of the times became as important or as binding on a list as the substantive law governing the rights and obligations of the parties. So the attempt and arbitration was that we devised something which is less formal and which is not steeped in the technicalities in which the litigation before courts is. But as I said and I speak from my experience that that purpose was not so arbitration only became a first step in the litigation a first step before approaching the court. There were hardly any awards except for very very small amounts or very very small reliefs which did not go through the rigmarole of a challenge before the courts. The 1940 arbitration act failed to serve the purpose which arbitration was supposed to serve and the 1996 act though overhauled from time to time and enacted with the main objective of doing away the maladies which were which the 1940 act or arbitrations under the 1940 act were facing again in my opinion failed to achieve that purpose to the extent which it was required or which it thought it would achieve. Of course one of the reasons see when I asked people this in fact let me tell you that whenever as a lawyer a client came to me for the purposes of growing up of a contract or to take my suggestions with respect to dispute resolution with in a relationship contractual relationship which the client was entering into my opinion as a lawyer was that arbitration does not serve any purpose arbitration took at that time talking of the 1940 era arbitration took nearly as much time as the suit would for taking the courts in those days and then just like there were appeals from a decision in a suit there were challenge procedures there were enforcement procedures. In fact when I became a judge in 2008 one of the first matters pertaining to arbitration which came before me was a section 20 petition which had been pending in the I4 for over 10 years it was a heavily contested section 20 petition under the 1940 act and which had remained pending for a very very long time. So these were the kind of delays so I felt really sad that we have taken 15-20 years in appointing an arbitrator and after that the arbitration would take its own course. As I was saying the root cause which I felt of arbitration serving this purpose of expediency or quick resolution of disputes was that commercial men who generally incorporated arbitration clauses in their contract refusing to treat the award of the arbitrator as final. A few times when I asked some of the commercial men that you have agreed upon arbitration those were the good old days when your named arbitrator used to conduct the arbitration even if he was your lawyer or if he was well known to you or had a connection with you these 1996 had not come into being but those people were also deciding against the party who had nominated them or who had named them and then of course under the 1996 act and the answer which that gentleman gave was that look the simplest was that he has turned dishonest. The expectation was that if I have asked let's say for example Mr. Chhatra to be the arbitrator and Mr. Chhatra has decided against me then he is dishonest, he is honest only if he decides in my favor, however honestly he may have decided against me. So whenever a party had a right to nominate an arbitrator the expectation was that because he is my nominee he will decide in my favor and of course our legal system is such that we are not a judicial system which is bound by precedent. We are a judicial system where each case is decided on its own rights and the precedents are distinguished or a lot of times disregarded or ultimately the law may change when you take it to the highest of the courts whose precedent is binding. So there is a element of silence in our litigation which every litigant is desirous of taking and so was it with respect to arbitration and people refuse to recognize arbitration as any different from the courts. So all this according to me has largely frustrated the purpose of arbitration. Even today when I have a few arbitrations and people come before me the lawyers are wanting to proceed in the same manner as they proceed in the court. They are not willing to look at arbitration differently. Frames I would beseech all of you to consider arbitration differently than litigation and the need of the R according to me is to restore arbitration to the glory with which it deserves or for which it was designed and if we are able to resolve disputes through arbitrations in I would say let us make a beginning of wanting to reduce the time initially by one third and ultimately it should be one tenth of the time which the dispute for resolution would have taken in the court. Then according to me that would be a big gain for arbitration and which will ultimately result in the courts being freer off the disputes which are inter parties and being left to decide more complex legal issues or wherever interpretation of any law is required to be taken or changed in relation to a particular set of facts. So when one thinks of what can be done the first thing which comes to my mind is with respect to the arbitration agreement. My experience as a lawyer and as a judge has been that arbitration clauses are standard form which are generally picked up either from the now from the internet or from an earlier contract or even if the contracting parties are themselves drafting the agreement or their in-house councils are drafting the commercial agreements they would pick up the commercial clauses they ring up their lawyer and say please send me a arbitration clause and the lawyer would send a standard arbitration clause and without even anybody paying any attention to it it would be incorporated. In my time I'm talking of early 80s the habit was to pick up at that time in Delhi the arbitration institution rather Fikki used to have an arbitration institution and the Indian council of arbitration used to be there and their booklet used to have two standard form arbitration clauses. One is for ad hoc arbitration not through their ages the other was arbitration through their ages and most of the contracts in Delhi were found to have copied those arbitration clauses and a lot of times it was very interesting those arbitration clauses did not if the arbitration the entire arbitration clause provided for several eventualities in that particular contract from which the arbitration clause was picked up only some of the disputes were referable to arbitration and others were not and for other the jurisdiction of the court was provided those clauses would also get incorporated. In fact as a lawyer I came across a very very ambiguous arbitration clause which resulted because of that ambiguous arbitration clause there was a decision of the question whether the matter is to go for arbitration or for sure itself took close to three and a half to four years and just imagine that so much time wasted pre arbitration in that the wordings used were that the parties will settle their disputes either by arbitration or by mediation or by conciliation as they may decide at that time so one party wanted arbitration the other party wanted the matter to go to the court and the resolution of this dispute took a very long time several times it happens and in fact I've come across those cases also where an arbitration institution is named and the name is not correctly written and as would happen the name which was mentioned could reflect two different arbitration institutions would be denoting that so that took a very long time to decide so I'm just telling you that how and when I tried to read that why it is so happening of course I didn't find any Indian literature but in some of the foreign textbooks what I found the reason for this is they classify the arbitration clauses in the midnight clauses of an agreement now midnight clause in the English context or the American context is a clause which is negotiated or thought to be incorporated in a contract at the fact end when everything else has settled the commercial terms the technical terms have been settled between the parties and it's already midnight and then they would say oh we have to incorporate the legal clauses so they tell the junior most person you incorporate or some lawyer would be called up you would ask to give a clause and that clause would be incorporated and nobody would pay any attention to it except when dispute arose so one of the reasons which is given for the arbitration clause being not tailored to the need of the contract or to the particular contract in which it is being incorporated is this that the attention is not paid people only want arbitration and they do not apply themselves that alright what kind of arbitration what are our rights in this arbitration how we want the arbitration to be conducted no attention all this is given a short strip by the lawyer and with the result that you are landed up when a dispute arises with arbitration clause which leaves you with no option but to be guided by whichever way the arbitrator wants to take you so this what I want to emphasize today for the consideration of all of you is the need to properly pay attention to the arbitration clause and to tailor it or make a bespoke arbitration clause which would best serve the purpose of your contract and which would help in early conclusion of the arbitration proceedings or if I may say so which would also help in the award attaining finality and with the parties dissatisfied with the award also being advised that there is no purpose because this is what you have agreed to now the question which arises is that does the law permit us to do so and if the law permits us what are the advantages of so tailoring the arbitration clause to the needs of your contract now friends under section 2 of the 1940 the arbitration agreement was merely defined as an agreement to refer disputes to the parties whether the arbitrator was named or not and section 3 provide the effort to the schedule to that 1940 act and provided that the arbitration the implied provisions in arbitration agreement would be as given in the schedule and if you ever had a look to see those clauses those clauses also were nothing really about the conduct of the arbitration or the form of the award those clauses were about the number of arbitrators and so on and while on this subject let me tell you that contracts of force 1996 also continue to have arbitration agreements arbitration clauses providing for even number of arbitrators and not withstanding the arbitration act clearly saying that it cannot be now I have not had an occasion to see whether under the 1940 act in any contract there was a tailor made arbitration clause and if there was a tailor made arbitration clause whether the court while making the award rule of the court paid weightage to that or not or the court felt that it was not open to so but that is not a context today also I did not feel the needs to do any research on that subject but 1996 act has definitely made a difference now under the 1996 act of course as under the 1940 act also there was a primacy of the contracting parties to decide on the number of arbitrators of course without with the provision for appointment of an empire but there are very wild provisions wasting the parties with the right to make an agreement or to make the arbitration clause suited to their agreement till now except on the aspect of interest nothing has come to my notice at least where the question has arose that if the parties have agreed on a particular procedure how does it affect the challenge to the award so first I will proceed to place for your consideration the various provisions of the arbitration act which according to me are relevant and which show that how much the parties can change now the first I would come to section 116 section 11 is of course with the appointment of arbitrators and then section 116 is about the substitution of an arbitrator now if you read further down section 116 it says of course it proceeds to say the arbitration the appointment shall be made where the party has failed to act or failed to appoint an arbitrator then the Supreme Court of the High Court will make and then towards the end it says unless the agreement from the appointment procedure provides other means of securing the appointment so this is the first provision which came to my notice where you know the parties have if suppose a situation occurs within the meaning of section 116 a party fails to act or to nominate appointed arbitrators failed to reach an act or a person appointed as the arbitrator fails to function until now the law which has developed is without any agreement to the contrary is that if you have failed to appoint the arbitrator and then let's say that arbitrator dies before rendering the award because of your original failure you will have to again go back to the court for appointment because you have lost the right to appoint you don't get a right to appoint so my reading of section 116 is that it is open for you have open to the contracting parties to provide that if one of them has failed to appoint an arbitrator and the court has appointed the arbitrator then if that appointed arbitrator is unable to arbitrate and again an appointment is required to be made then that appointment one need not go back to the court that appointment can be made by the party not withstanding the earlier failure to appoint the arbitrator then friends you may also refer to section 112 says subject to section 6 the parties are free to agree on a procedure for appointment appointing the arbitrator now this has to be read with 12-5 12-5 says this is the challenge procedure they say that not withstanding any prior agreement to the contrary any person to relationship with the parties or council or the subject matter of the dispute all gender any of the categories specified in the 7th dispute shall be ineligible to be appointed as an arbitrator so the agreement cannot run foul of the guidelines in the 7th dispute this is what the another place where I found the restriction is if you see section 13 the challenge procedure now the challenge procedure again says that section 131 says that subject to subsection 4 the parties are free to agree on a procedure for challenge but section 4 of section 13 says that if a challenge under the procedure agreed by the parties or under the procedure under subsection 2 is not successful the arbitral tribunal shall continue the arbitral proceedings and make an arbitral award so you cannot agree that the arbitration proceedings will come to a standstill till the challenge is decided or till the appeal if any preferred against the challenge is decided or any challenge to the decision on the challenge these are the two places where I found that the parties autonomy is not there and the legislature has ruled that certain things will be guided otherwise we have a new chapter 15 which has no equivalent under the 1940 act about the conduct of the arbitration proceedings and section 19 there under commences about the determination of rules of procedure so the tribunal shall not be bound by the CPC subsection 2 says the parties are free to agree on the procedure to be followed by the arbitral tribunal in conducting the proceedings and subsection 3 says that failing any agreement the arbitral tribunal may conduct the proceedings in the manner it considers appropriate so because most of the contracts fail to set out the procedure for arbitration you place yourself the contracting parties or the lawyers place themselves at the mercy of the arbitration tribunal that the arbitration tribunal will follow the procedure which it so desires so my endeavor in today's talk is to exhort all of you to advise clients and or to maybe study further on the subject that how we can expedite by because see what I understand is that when you are at the stage of drafting the contracts there is a desire amongst the parties to reach a contract to reach an agreement and they reach a contract they reach an agreement because at that stage they are in a mood to give and take they are willing to let go of something which originally they wanted to be able to reach a contract and if at that moment you talk about procedure in the event of disputing in the same spirit of giving take you will be able to also arrive at that because you see by and large you would know if I'll give you the simplest of the examples if you are having a lease and you want to incorporate arbitration clause you can very well provide in that that if the dispute is with respect to nonpayment of rent and before the arbitrator the tenant is unable to show proof either through banking channels or a written receipt or something of payment of rent then the arbitrator will not accept any plea of receipt in this payment of rent and check similarly about several other things disputes which arise about a lot of times we have seen that an oral agreement of renewal of tenancy is pleaded when you are in a court of law the court of law is bound to proceed to give evidence if there is sufficient or some material on record an opportunity to prove the contract but what you have to realize in arbitration you have an option that this to say that this plea will not be entertained unless there is a registered renewal of lease because a lease for a definite period can only be by a registered document so it is or for instance in a construction contract you can have that see what are the disputes which one has noticed most often in the construction contracts or one is of course of delay the other is of override runs the other is delivery of possession or access to site other are additional work so for each of these you can provide a method that how this kind of a dispute will be resolved in arbitration for instance for delay you can draw out the parameters for delivery of possession again the parameters and you can close certain please which delay adjudication on this account additional work see it will again have to be in the facts of each contract you will have to see that how you can incorporate these clauses the unfortunate part is that at least in my knowledge till now there is no attempt I have not come across any case any judgment where a contract is found to contain these procedures for settlement of disputes and which procedures have been tested in fact today only before joining you people as checking these legal websites and I saw that now there is a judgment from the supreme court see that question that the only question which has been coming before that court says that a lot of these public sector undertakings they have been providing in their contracts that if the event of arbitration in any award against us no interest shall be awarded against us I personally was of the view that this clause runs foul of section 28 but supreme court today has most of the decisions till now were that it is not foul because you are bound and the supreme court has affirmed this view so similarly you can incorporate so many clauses see the contractor for his benefit or the employer for his benefit they can see that how they are to when I go through these different provisions I will come to one or two other instances which I have which come to my mind so section 19 is the most important section which enables the parties to revise the procedure for their arbitration instead of leaving it to the arbitral tribunal arbitral tribunal is often as I said a retired judge who is also used to after spending 40 years or 30 years he is used to following a particular procedure and all of which leads to delay after the disputes have arisen you cannot enter into an agreement because at that time what the procedure for arbitration will be because at that time parties are not in a compromising mood they are in a compromising mood at the stage of making of the agreement and at which stage my hope is that agreement for procedure for arbitration can also be reached section I think we are slightly delayed so I will just run through some of the provisions section 20 is regarding the place of arbitration that also till now we see a lot of disputes between the parties about place of arbitration so why not provide in the contract where the arbitration will be held then section 21 which provides for yes another very important thing of course it's more in the context of international commercial arbitration taking place outside India about the seat of arbitration but within domestic arbitration also are in arbitration under part one also even international commercial arbitration happening in India the seat of arbitration I am seeing of late has a significance a lot of you know the parties are at divergence after the award has come or at the stage of interim measures there are certain ports which are fit to be more likely to grant an interim measure or more likely to set aside an award or where a challenge to the arbitration award remains pending for a long time so the question in the domestic arbitration also is arising which port will be the seat of arbitration whether it will be Delhi it will be Patna it will be Odisha where so why not provide for it and why leave it to decision by the courts and all of which takes time then section 21 friends you are entitled by contract to also change the date of commencement of arbitration section 21 contains the general rule that the arbitration will commence on the date of receipt of request for arbitration but it is unless the parties are provided otherwise section 22 of course is about the language in which arbitration is pending now section 23 is again very interesting if you really want to cut short you can under section 23 is about statement of claim and defense so it says when the period of time agreed upon by the party to determine the claimant shall state within the period of time so you can provide that the statement of claim will be made within such and such time so you can be realistic about it you can age at the time of entering into the contract that the period of 15 days only will be available so ultimately your time gets reduced by that much ordinarily the time would be as per the tribunal's writing some adjournments would be there but if your agreement provides that if the claim is not statement of claim is not made within next time there will be no further right the arbitral tribunal will be bound by same thing about statement of defense now section 24 again gives you autonomy gives the parties autonomy about hearing and written proceedings so you can see whether there will be verbal hearings or not whether there will be only written arguments so all this ultimately will considerably reduce the time and ensure that the arbitration serves the purpose of expeditious resolution which it was designed to serve section 25 is about default mechanism as I was saying about statement of claim and defense you can say there will be no further right and then the arbitration will be bound by that now I want to spend some time on section 26 section 26 is about expert appointment by the arbitral tribunal now you know again the arbitral tribunal most often doesn't have a panel of experts on a particular subject whereas the parties who are contracting with respect to a particular technical matter they will definitely know at the time of entering into the contract that who is a well-recognized expert in the field and who both of them can trust now what is happening unfortunately in India is that we are getting our own experts and one out full of that which is my understanding on the subject is because all experts are hired by adversarial sites you know they don't require the kind of documentation which experts in other fields for instance in law we have experts who are invited to give evidence on a matter of law in foreign courts or very very respectable names so my comprehension is that once the parties start agreeing on that alright if there is a delay or additional work what is the value of it will be determined by so and so expert who is trusted by both of us you know over a period of time experts will grow who will not take up advising or giving opinion on the matter at the instance of one party and who will only give an opinion in their respective fields when jointly their names are proposed so something an all expert so again instead of leaving expert appointment to the arbitral tribunal if you enter into an agreement at the time of entering into the contract that who the expert will be it will cut short now in that context I also wanted to place another facet for your consideration which again is hardly used this is section 20 of the evidence act now it's a very small section allow me to read it for your consideration this says statements made by persons to a party to the suit of course it uses the word suit has expressly referred for information in reference to a matter in dispute are admissions and the illustration given is the question is whether a horse sold by A to B is sound A says to be go and ask see she knows all about it see statement is an admission and I'll give you an example which is to be found in an ancient judgment where this section 20 was used there was a dispute we are talking about very old times between two persons I forget relating to what so in the court one of the persons one of the litigants said to the judge that look if the other party or the other litigant goes to such and such temple along with his son and by placing his hand on the head of his son says that what he is saying is correct I'll give up my claim you allow the suit in his favor and the judge appointed a commissioner to go to the temple the other party agreed this offer the judge appointed a commissioner to go with both of them to that temple and the commissioner submitted a report that yes this party went with his son put his hand on his head and said that what I am saying is true so the party who had initially given that offered right to back out from it saying that no this is not the legal procedure you have to give me a full right to prove my case so at that stage this section 20 was involved and it was said that since you referred the dispute like this now you are bound to have admitted it so the context in which I am drawing your attention to this is that when we agree upon an expert we can further provide that whatever that expert finds will be binding on both of us and it will be an admission within the meaning of section 20 so that will obviate all the need to any further evidence on that particular issue and an award with respect to that particular issue can be made immediately then section 28 to that this is often quoted but again not found in my recollection in any of the now section 28 to says that the individual tribunal shall decide x a photo at bono or as amiable compositor now this means in accordance with the principles of equity fairness and justice and not in accordance with the law or the substantive law on the subject so even if the law is against somebody if it is a equitable decision because the party though as per contract I was to bear the losses for a particular eventuality but his losses are required in equity to be divided or to be born by the other party then the arbitrators can make an award in terms of that at least I am not aware of any judgment where the contract has provided that the arbitral tribunal may make an award in accordance with this Latin principle of equity and justice so this is also something which can be explored when a particular contract falls for the parties to provide for the arbitral tribunal to decide maybe that thing can be incorporated then very interestingly section 29 which provides for the where it is a multi member arbitration tribunal or decision by majority it is again unless otherwise agreed between the parties so just consider an eventuality you can say that may I just read it for your consideration unless agreed otherwise agreed by the parties in arbitral proceedings with more than one arbitrator any decision of the arbitral tribunal shall be made by a majority of all its members so you can devise a procedure which you can for instance say that the majority decision if contrary to my nominee arbitrator will not be again not considered by the court something which is worth trying before the court that unless my nominee has consented to it will not be binding and again no jurisprudence available to my knowledge in India but in the foreign source there is jurisprudence on this aspect also right these kind of situations they have devised these typical terms one is a high low formula another is a baseball formula another is a night baseball formula see people have devised the system they have said that all right if my nominee arbitrator has awarded ten rupees and the majority arbitrators have awarded fifty rupees then either the arbitral tribunal or somebody else would pass an award for in between figure or something like that then there are cases where the parties enter into an agreement on a particular matter that an award on this matter will not be more than this and on another matter will be or not less than this and they keep it for themselves if the arbitral award is beyond those limits then there is a again they adjust it in between that in between the maximum and minimum now another really particular thing say section 29A when the timelines have been provided for arbitration while providing for those timelines they have not provided for that to the contrary that is not subject to a contract to the contrary so you cannot say that the award will be rendered beyond the timelines then interest I have already touched that interest you can also under 31 you can say that the arbitral tribunal will give an award without any reasons and award which is without any reasons becomes nearly impossible to challenge then section 31A5 costs again no agreement to the contrary but why I said that all these things can be agreed upon by you is how so ever funny or strange it may sound today because section 34 which is the challenge section 2A5 says it gives a ground for setting aside the award that if the arbitral tribunal has not rendered the award in accordance with the procedure agreed upon between the parties so that gives sanctity that if you have laid down the procedure the arbitral tribunal is bound by that procedure and your award will be in lines of that I think Mr. Chakrat has already shown his face once we have finished our times so this was some thought and I'm sure all of you would be in a position to develop it further Mr. Chakrat I would conclude with that I would not do a few other things but I think we must divide by the time also once you're feeling that it is required to be covered no I think both of it are covered see there are some you this thing that I came across one case again a foreign judgment where it was provided that the arbitral tribunal will decide the case as a suit now that is again a very strong if you want to provide that you might as well go to the court where is the need to provide for that alright I think I'll leave it at that yes thank you very much it was all a pleasure and amongst us we have Rashmi Karanan Agpal who is the Dean coupled with Shambhavi Mishra and assistant professor she will be proposing the vote of thanks on behalf of the DMA and first I will ask Shambhi and then we will take the insights from Rashmi Karanan what do you Shambhi Shambhi I hope I'm audible to everyone yes thank you so much sir just a sigh for such an insightful lecture I must say arbitration has never been my strong suit so I'll be taking something extra from this lecture and maybe tell it to my students as well also we'll be hoping sincerely I mean this is something which we do not get it through books and bear reading of the bear act also like there has to be some sort of a connection that has to be made between the section and it was wonderful the way you have explained in such my new reading and I really hope that maybe we can have a session with our students separately also maybe that would be a really great opportunity for our students as well so looking forward to future collaborations with you sir thank you so much moving on to Mr. Vikas Chachar thank you so much for giving us an opportunity to be a part of this event again as a teacher I think this is a learning streak that we have to have continuously and this was one of those events personally for me and I can speak on behalf of most of the teachers from our college right here so thank you so much sir for giving us an opportunity for this and again I hope that we are going to have many more collaborations to come in future so with that I just in my vote of thanks over here on behalf of DME I would ask the freshman ma'am to give her a few words then very good evening sir and thank you so much sir for Vikas yes we would keep bothering him for your contacts and I will definitely try to contact you sir because this is something sir that we are all students of law you know what is practically doing in law is so different from the course books yes it is such a difficult situation for the student you know as long as he is exposed to practical exposures like hearing impedance speakers like you who have excelled in their own fields it is our knowledge as faculty members we feel that it is too narrow and we just want to books and to academic and what is the part of this labors that's it so this practical insight I think not about students about me also I was stuck up in the huge traffic jam while coming from the college so intermittently I would hear but sir we'll definitely wish to have you with us also one session since you are based in Delhi so it will be a pleasure to have you with us for more insights on arbitration and mitigation and even pleadings that Vikas was telling me is a sense area where we need a practical exposure thank you sir thank you so much thank you so much thank you Vikas thank you thank you sir as you have been connecting on various platforms and it is always the deeper knowledge which sir takes that's always a pleasure and for his court I can say that the people used to say despite the fact that the list was so heavy he used to invariably try to ensure that the lawyers are getting the patient hearing coupled with the fact that nobody felt that he couldn't be given a patient hearing and he could not get the result what he actually thought of thought of in the sense he was given patient hearing he was made to understand the law since his own fundamentals were issues and principles of law were so clear so that's why he was considered one of the most favorite lawyers as they say as a lawyer what Rashmi was saying that as a lawyer we know that once you watch the cause list in the evening it sends the jitters of the pleasant surprise to the effect that what would be the fate of the result something it may not affect fully but at the same time it does affect that what type of query the bench could ask whether it's you would be able to sail through whether you plan within like we all plan the art of advocacy we also plan whether this bench would like to address from the facts first or the legal proposition or the adjudication of the principles of first principles of rules be that as it may sir it was a pleasure hearing you from your side and since you are saying that you are shifting despite the fact that you are shifting to your new house out of your position you have been able to save time for us and we are indebted for that and we will keep on hearing you on this platform coupled with the collaborations of the ME everyone stay safe stay blessed thank you thank you