 Hey there, I'm Drew and you are watching or just listening to the anxious truth The anxious truth is the podcast that covers all things anxiety anxiety recovery anxiety disorders So if you're dealing with things like panic attacks, agoraphobia or health anxiety, this is the place for you Today we're gonna talk about why there are so many different messages about what getting better and recovery looks like Can anxiety be cured or can anxiety only be managed? So grab a cup of coffee or tea and let's talk about it Hello everybody, welcome back to the anxious truth. This is podcast episode number two three four We are recording in November of 2022. So if you are watching or listening from the future, hello, future I hope you're enjoying your flying cars that we don't have yet now So today we're gonna talk about why there is such a crazy wide range of messages with regard to what anxiety Recovery is what does it really look like? What's really entailed on one far side of this spectrum are people who will tell you that they have a Guaranteed iron clad anxiety cure that will make sure that you never have another panic attack anxious day or intrusive thought for the rest of your life And on the far other side of that spectrum is a message that says you will never cure this and never get better The best you can hope for is to simply manage it and cope for the rest of your life. Why is that? Why is there such a wide range of messages about what getting better even means? We'll talk about it today We'll see we can find out what the truth might be or even if there is a universal truth Which is probably a big deal so before we get into that Thank you guys for hanging in there with me. This is just gonna be me today. There's no guest No silly fake sponsor as I've been doing for the past few episodes you guys seem to be enjoying those I'll do more of those as we go But I just want to remind you that if this is your first time here watching or listening The anxious truth is more than just this video or this podcast episode There is a ton of other resources that I have created over the years Many of which are free some of which are not but all can be found on the anxious truth calm That's my website my books are there my monthly distress tolerance webinars there a link to my Instagram subscription group is there There's also a ton of free content 233 prior podcast episodes a ton of social media content the free morning newsletter, which is called the anxious morning It's all that so check it all out at the anxious truth calm a value yourself of the resources I'm trying to be as helpful as I can so take advantage And if you are enjoying this work, and you want to find some way to support it. There are the books There's a monthly webinar. There's merchandise. There's my Instagram subscription But all the ways to support this work can be found at the anxious truth calm Support that is never required but always appreciated in any way that you support this work Either by just listening tuning in watching the videos subscribing to the YouTube channel or writing a podcast review I appreciate you guys. Thank you so much So let's get into today's topic Which really is why are there so many messages about recovery and what getting better actually looks like what does it mean? Can you actually get better or can you only hope to manage your anxiety and cope with it for the rest of your life? It's a really good question And I understand why this would cause confusion and in many instances distress in the community Because when we are struggling and I was struggling to we just want somebody to tell us That it's gonna go away and that we're gonna feel better and that we're gonna get better So I really get that I do the drive to hear that message is really strong So when you look from a recovery message Part of what you're looking for is not only psycho educational or instructive or guiding in nature You're really looking for some hope and I do understand that So it's okay to want to hear somebody tell you you're gonna be okay. You're gonna get completely better This is gonna go away. It's okay to want to hear that because I think most people want to hear that and that's not a crime That's just being human. Everybody wants to feel better and that's okay But when you go looking for that those messages, you are met with a very wide range of messages So let's kind of walk through that. Let's look at the extremes So on one extreme are people who are saying here is an anxiety cure like I have a cure for this This is going to fix you. I am going to give you some special techniques or special Herbs or medicine or whatever it is I don't care what what the technique is or what they're actually telling you to do But their message is if you do this certain thing This is a cure and I will pretty much guarantee you that you're never gonna have another panic attack You won't ever be a gorophobic. You're never gonna have another intrusive thought You won't have health anxiety anymore. There is a cure. It will be gone So that is one far end of the spectrum on the other end of the spectrum is a Message of basically management and coping which in many ways is a message of just avoidance and Finding your triggers and not being triggered and just managing it and trying to feel as good as you can feel and stop the anxiety from happening and That message says you can never cure this But you can maybe find ways to cope with it or manage it for the rest of your life those are very Different messages and for somebody who is really desperate for a shred of hope who is looking for somebody to say you're gonna get better And it's gonna be okay Hearing an anxiety cure can be really appealing although many times when you start to go down those roads You end up getting burned and disappointed But the other far end of that spectrum hearing people and by the way by people I mean anywhere from Anybody that can fog up a mirror on social media all the way to researchers and clinicians with with doctoral level credentials and lots of published articles So if this is I'm not picking on anybody in particular You're gonna find a very wide variety of people professional or otherwise on both ends of that spectrum So if you hear somebody tell you you can't cure this This is never gonna be cured the best you can hope will be to try to manage it or cope with it for the rest of Your life that could be a terrifying message to hear because you just want to get better So I get I understand that the emotional reactions that come with these things could be hope Oh, look, there's a cure. I can get better. It could be optimism. Oh my god after so much time I think I can get better. Somebody is gonna be able to fix me There can be confusion. I come this person with a PhD says one thing and this person with a PhD says a completely opposite thing That's totally confusing and then there can just be sort of that feeling of loss And I don't know what to try and I don't know what to do and he can be really disheartened So why do I think there is such a wide range in that message and by the way in the middle of that I think there's a very wide variety and I don't care what the actual Program or modality is might be physically based. It might be psychodynamic It might be cognitive behavior doesn't matter in this discussion But in the middle of that is where I kind of fall and I I believe or else I wouldn't be doing what I do I wouldn't write these books. I wouldn't have this podcast I wouldn't be spending money and time on a master's degree and becoming a licensed therapist if I didn't Have this orientation. I believe that in the middle is a little bit more realistic More in line with what it means to be human message of recovery Which is that we have to accept that we are going to feel things from time to time in life And we are gonna feel things and have experiences that we don't want to feel and we don't want to have those experiences We would broadly describe them as negative whether they're sad or or disappointing. There's grief. There's loss There's anger. There's disappointment. There's fear. There's uncertainty There's all kinds of stuff that just goes into being alive and for people like me who kind of live in the middle I'm never promising you a cure nor do I think you have to just learn to live with or manage the condition You have right now, so I'm in the middle and I would think that those of us in the middle Regardless of what we tell you your path should be but we think the right path is to getting better We would tell you that getting better means that you might feel things from time to time You just won't call what you feel and what you experience a disaster anymore So that's sort of the middle ground and you might get there cognitive behaviorally like I'm talking about and the people I Collaborate with all the time we're talking about or you might get there through some other modality or treatment whatever But many of us in the middle are giving that message That could be a confusing message because Unfortunately, I'm not promising you. Hey, I have this program that cures your anxiety Which is I know you kind of want to hear but we're never very rarely or we are people that sound like me saying But on the same time we're telling you yeah But your life really can be a whole lot better because we will understand what it looks like to be anxious without being afraid of being anxious In the state that you're in right now You can't fathom that so any mention of the fact that you might still feel anxiety Or you might have a panic attack now and then or you might Experience a recurrence of some intrusive thoughts now and then is met with that. I'm not that means I'm never gonna get better So I get it if you're struggling and you're in the thick of it The idea that having an intrusive thought or having a scary thought about your health or having a full-blown panic attack Once in a long while to you sounds like yeah, but that's disaster. That's not better at all. I can't handle that so Even the middle message which I think is more moderate more realistic and more in line with what it is to be human Can be hard to hear because it doesn't give you all the hope that you really want But it also can scare you a little bit because you cannot comprehend with a different relationship What anxiety fear and uncertainty might be because you're in it in a toxic relationship with it now if you will So that's where that those messages fall now Why are there so many different messages to be honest with you? And I thought about this a lot in the last few days somebody brought it up and on my youtube channel In the comments and I thought about it. I said, you know what most of the time when people ask me this The words cure manage and cope are always in the discussion. I thought well, this is probably our clue, right? So I think the reason why there is such a very wide range of Recovery messages from I can completely cure you to you can never be cured. You can only hope to manage is Because words like cure and manage are very widely defined We don't all agree on what that means and by we I mean the giant population of people who are dealing with anxiety and anxiety Disorders who are consuming material like this podcast or this video We don't we don't all agree on what the word cure means and we don't all agree on what the word manage means So for instance, I will give you my own personal perspective I actually don't believe I would not tell you that I can cure you because I know what I would call a cure Is probably not what a struggling person would call a cure so We have a mismatch in what we think a cure is some people will define cure as I Never ever experience anxiety ever again and I understand that's not realistic and many of you watching might say Oh, I don't I don't expect that. I know I'm human, but there are many many anxious people That would prefer it if they Never ever felt anxiety of any kind ever again and that is their definition of cure Then there are people who understand. Well, that's probably not realistic Maybe more in line with the stuff that you hear me talk about And then there are other people who feel like, you know, well in the middle ground that's like Yeah, I might feel it now and then I get it, but I can learn to handle it. That's great Then other people see cure as there is no such thing because I'm always going to have this This is in my cells. It's a biochemical thing. It's a chemical imbalance. There's trauma whatever they believe I'm not picking on any of those definitions. It's completely individual and that's fine And it's going to vary very widely But the definition of cure or even the belief that there's a possible cure It varies very widely and a very large population of anxious people who all bring very different backgrounds stories and expectations to the table So since we we can't really decide on what cure even means in many cases, then that leaves a whole lot of room Manage is another word manage and cope like my definition of coping and managing is likely very different than the definition of coping and management that you would find from somebody who teaches Reiki or who talks a lot about weighted blankets and essential oils and soothing and calming and putting your feet in the grass again This is not me picking on those things. I'm acknowledging that they're out there and some people gravitate towards those things But my definition of managing this and the definition of managing that would come from maybe that person Who is a little bit more involved in those type of approaches is going to be very different Those people might tell you we can teach you ways to identify your triggers and avoid them You would never hear me say that right I'm telling you to go toward your damn triggers Those people might say well, we can find ways to distract you when your mind starts to You know go into high gear and I will tell you no no no we never want to distract So you see how this definition of management would also vary greatly I might argue that we're not after management at all because in my core message. I would tell you this doesn't need to be managed but But again, that's because of where my definition is So I think the fact that we cannot even necessarily agree on what words like cure cope and manage even mean And there's such a large number of anxious people in the world right now Which is really heartbreaking and there's such a lack of help right now We I think we have to acknowledge that that if you look at it purely with as market forces or a marketplace to be in And I'm not talking about money. Let's take money out of the equation If there are a ton of anxious people that are looking for ways to get better Then that creates a marketplace for people who can offer ways to get better however way you define that Forget the money part That means there's a really broadly defined marketplace and many many little focuses and niches inside that marketplace for people to work in So you are bound to find people who Maybe in with the best of intentions believe that they have found a magic anxiety cure Not everybody's a huckster. Not everybody's a charlatan. Not everybody's a scammer, right? I'm never trying to say that I don't believe that anybody should be offering you a bulletproof anxiety cure that promises that you're never anxious a day in your life I don't believe that that's correct But many people are out there because they believe it is correct And there's a large number of anxious people who would align with that view of what recovery looks like or what they want It to look like on the other side There are people who feel that they can accommodate the part of the of the marketplace If you will population of anxious people who are struggling to recover who feel No, no, this is just baked into me. I can't do that. I don't want to do it Drew's way, which is okay You know, I've had trauma. I have a chemical imbalance. Whatever your view of this is You will gravitate more toward that other side of the spectrum and then people will fill that part of the marketplace too So i'm not trying to reduce mental health to a marketplace because it's it's not that But I think using the idea of marketplace dynamics to explain why there's such a wide range of definitions in terms of what recovery might look like Can be really helpful So since we can there's so many anxious people, we can't even define and agree on it on a Consensus in terms of what coping management and cure even means that there are many many Nishes and slots and verticals inside that big global definition that many many people can slide into and try to fill So I might be filling the needs of the middle part of the marketplace That for whatever reason the way I talk about this or the way other people who are more cognitive behavioral talk about this We resonate with you So you we are filling the middle part of the marketplace But there are also people who are filling the right end and the left end of the marketplace and right and left is not political I'm talking about just the wide end of the spectrum here. So I probably explains why We have such a wide ranging Approach and the wide ranging set of messages that that will Tell you what recovery is if it's possible what it means and when it looks like So that seems like a reasonable explanation to me. I'm curious to hear what anybody else has to say about this So clearly if you want to leave comments on youtube or talk about it in my facebook group or whatever Let's do that. Let's have a conversation because it's a great conversation to have So is there truth? I think that what we get to at the end of the discussion is what's the truth then And people ask me this all the time. I'm getting it more and more lately. Oh, man I saw a video from an anxiety expert that said that this can never be cured It can only be managed and now i'm freaking out. Is that right like people will come to me with that question Is that right? Is that person right? Am I never going to be cured? And there's fear in the question and there's there's uncertainty in the question and that person is suffering and just looking for some hope So I get the question. I totally get it. It's okay to ask me that And I would tell you that well what I believe is that they are not correct Right. I don't believe they're correct if I believe that they were correct I'd be saying something completely different about this particular topic or I wouldn't be addressing the topic at all So when you ask somebody if if you ask the cure person if i'm correct That person would probably say no that guy is Incorrect. He doesn't know what he's talking about if you ask the I can you can only cope manage avoid and soothe for the rest of your life person If the cure person is correct or if i'm correct, they would probably tell you no I don't believe that those people are right. There is no cure and what that dude with the hat is talking about is crazy so What's the truth? I don't know if there is a truth All I can tell you is that that truth is probably not universal Everybody probably arrives at their own truth and here's the tricky part from the way I see it And again opinion and speculation here may be at spurs and discussion I think that the way we arrive at our personal truth is largely through trial and error and trying things Often things that we don't want to try or we don't believe in but then suddenly we say Oh, man, this is actually making a difference. There's change happening here Now maybe that's doing the things that you find that I write about in my books and talk about in this podcast Or maybe it is using weighted blankets and essential oils or maybe it is going through some anxiety cure program I don't care, but in the end you start to discover well I did this and nothing happened nothing changed Then I tried this and a little change but not really what I'm looking for then I tried this and that didn't work at all but now I'm trying this thing and wow like Change is actually happening and then that becomes your truth But that is a lived experience truth. That is not a theoretical truth. That's not a speculative truth I think we all arrive at our recovery truth through trial and error and through experiences So that is that if you're asking me Can anxiety be cured or only managed and what does recovery look like? I have to tell you I don't know the answer for you personally because I can't say what your definition of those three words cure manage and and cope would be Nor can I tell you what you believe about those things nor do I know what you've tried or what you've done So I think the takeaway from this is to just try to understand why that message varies so much It's a function of the fact that The marketplace or the population of people suffering with anxiety defines such a wide and broad Subject if you will that there's room for people to fill all the slots in between on that really wide spectrum It doesn't mean that one end is right and the other end must be wrong or that the middle is right and the two ends are wrong It doesn't mean that at all the marketplace is defining itself And there is no right or wrong. It's just a reflection of the fact that it is a large and varied marketplace So think of it with those dynamics I know that to bring it back to the beginning of the episode You're looking for an iron clad answer that will guarantee you that you will get better the way you define getting better But just because you can't necessarily find that exact Assurance and iron clad certainty of that Doesn't mean that that truth won't be revealed to you in your own experiences as you try different things As you learn different things as you go down this path so Take heart because I don't believe that The varied messages In the anxiety community and the mental health community Mean that you are either guaranteed to get better or doomed to never get better And just lay under a weighted blanket for the rest of your life I don't believe it means that at all. I think it just means that There are a lot of potential answers to this and those answers will be in many ways individual to the sufferer and the way they Define words like cure manage cope recovery and better right So I know that was a little bit non-committal because I don't think it can be committal If I was going to be super committal about that I would make statements like they're wrong. They're wrong and I'm right and I I believe And I believe that a lot of decades of clinical data shows us That I believe the way that I approach this problem or this this context Has a better chance of being useful to the largest number of people and I think even people who Fall outside of the middle who are on the other ends might say Well, I can't argue with that. You can't argue with the data But I don't like it I don't like that approach and I think this is better because This my approach is different than exposures and facing and accepting and tolerating because my my method You know it involves is more trauma informed or my method takes into account physical issues. Okay. That's totally fine I think I think that what I'm talking about is probably closer to the possible truth for the most number of people But that's why I do this I'm quite sure that if you found people on either end of the spectrum on the other sides of me They would say the same thing and I would understand why they say that So it's important to understand Is that wide and varied marketplace full of people who might just be trying to take your money? Yeah, I think we'd have to acknowledge that that is true to a certain extent. Is it everybody? No So if you find somebody who's promising you an anxiety cure is that a red flag I would tell you it probably is and I would tell you it means you got to really do your homework and look Into that if there's somebody who's telling you no no I can only teach you ways to to avoid your triggers and and try to stay calm all the damn time I would tell you the same thing just be careful of that and watch that But there's every possibility that that person has your best intentions At heart and is trying to actually help you so don't automatically assume That the reason that there's such a wide definition is because everybody's trying to scam you that isn't true And I know I I poke fun at some of those scams and I and I call some of those people out aggressively I get that but it doesn't mean that the entire marketplace. I don't keep using that is predatory That's not true. There are some predatory nature there, but there's not and I'll also tell you that there is Some people with a predatory nature in the middle too. So it's not it's not confined to the ends So I hope that has been helpful in some way. I I don't know if it is or it isn't But it is a discussion that I've been meaning to have for a while. There's a lot of good questions I understand why it's confusing. I understand why it could be a little disheartening I understand why sometimes it could be exciting to hear some of these messages On tuesday and then really disheartening to hear on thursday because they don't feel the same way But I think that's the best explanation that I have I would tell you that we should talk about this more So if you want to talk about it in my facebook group or you want to talk about it on youtube Those are probably the two best places to do that I'm happy to engage in the discussion about this and kick around theories and hear what everybody's ideas are I think it's great when we get to do that But uh, yeah, that's my uh, that's my take on can anxiety be cured or just manage and Is there even such a thing as recovery? That's that's where I'm kind of end it That is episode 234 sort of in the books here and you know that it's over because the music That is as always the song that you hear at the beginning of most of these podcast episodes But at the end of all of them that's afterglow by ben drake Ben is a friend of mine. He's actually one of the admins in my facebook group. He's a great guy He wrote the song partially inspired by this podcast several years ago and he lets me use it And it means a lot to me So check ben and his music out at ben drake music dot com and tell him I said hello if you pop over there If you are watching on youtube welcome if you're not subscribed to the channel Why not just hit the button. It's like a little click for you. It means a lot to me Maybe like the video leave a comment. You know the deal If you're listening to the podcast on apple podcast or spotify or any platform that lets you rate or review this podcast Leave a five star rating if you like it Maybe take a minute and write a review if you really like it because it helps more people find the podcast and more People get help and in the end. That's why I do this to begin with So that's it. I hope this has been helpful I will be back next week with another episode do not know what i'm going to talk about But I will be here and remember as always This is at least in my view the way You