 Hello everyone, I'm up for nomination for Best British podcast, so if you could kindly take a minute and click the link in my bio and type in James English and place your vote, it'd be very much appreciated. Thank you. Can you make sure you click the subscribe button for my channel and the notifications button so you will be updated when my next podcast goes out? You can also follow me on social media, my Facebook page is James English 11, my Twitter is James English 0, my Instagram is James English 2 and you can also download these podcasts on Podbean and iTunes. We're on? Yes, and today's guest we've got Billy Moore, how are you brother? Nice to meet you. Thanks for coming on the show. Thanks for inviting me. You're a good man. Read the book, watch the film. Fascinating, very interesting. You've had a bit of a mad life growing up in Liverpool. Spent a lot of time in prisons, I think over 22 prisons. 22 prisons? Yeah, 22 prisons and yeah, you've had an experience and a half but it would be good to go right back to the start on how it all began and how you got involved in the stuff you got involved in. Yeah, it's a good start to be honest. The beginning, it's always, see I never like woke up once and said I'm going to have a career in crime and spending years and decades in fact in prisons. I wanted to be a boxer, I wanted to impress me dad, I wanted to show him that, you know, I could be somebody. The reality of it was, he was an alcoholic. I lived in a violent household. I was quite vulnerable, quite scared. I felt separate and different and alone, even growing up. Eventually, you know, anything I tried to do, I never got the acceptance or the approval that I wanted of him. So, I found myself standing on the street corners and finding an approval and a acceptance of kids at my own age in the streets to Liverpool. That's not really difficult. You know, a box for a long time. See, when I say a long time, from the age of 11, I started karate at first. It was like, it was shorter than karate. I tried that. It wasn't for me. I was never good at football because I'd never get picked. You know, I was one of them kids that had always got shows in the last and had always been the goalie or, you know, we're going to have him. So, I thought I'll do something that's for myself and a box for a little while. You know, I won a few fights. I started to build my own self-esteem up by doing that. I started to feel good about myself, didn't need my self-esteem from other people then. And then girls, you know, meeting girls, spending time with their friends and, you know, trying out drugs. But for me, the minute I put a drug in my body, I realised that it took away all those feelings of loss and abandonment and rejection and fear. You know, I had that courage to be someone's difference. But he also had an allergy. You know, I wasn't the kind of person that broke out on lumps and bumps or broke out on handcuffs, pain, misery and loss. You know, and I spent years in correctional facilities, in isolation most of the time. And I suppose I felt comfortable on my own, you know, getting labelled as well as, like, hey, he's nuts or he's ran a band or he's crazy or he's skits, he's a skit, so I'm feeling comfortable with all those labels. But when I was on my own in a shell, and it's always shut, I knew how lonely I felt, you know, I felt really, really lost, really lonely. What age were you building when you first got to jail? 16. What was the crime for? I think it was a swach back then. It was taken without only consensus. It was a car theft, but it was a few. I did it up. It was like at the beginning it was, I think it's called UTMV today. No, sorry, it was UTMV back then, and that was called SWER, you know what I mean, but she's on offer, I was taking her motor vehicles. Anderland, Stolen Goats, Bedel-E-Fift. They were all the initial kind of arrest that I had in the beginning. The kind of usual suspects to, like I say, if you're in that, if you're kind of got those abandonment issues, you're kind of searching for something, you're craving that, maybe attention, if you're doing bad stuff. We get that adrenaline rush where we feel good and then we've got that buzz that we don't get, so we end up dabbling into drugs to get that dopamine kick where we're feeling good, we feel alive. Before you know it, it just gets worse and worse and worse with the drugs. When did you start hitting the drugs kind of scene, the heavier stuff? The heavier stuff, I mean, it started with cannabis initially, and that was the gateway drug, and then from then on it was LSD, without going into a drugology or things, it was like it soon spiralled into using heroin and crack cocaine. You know, within months of being in the grip of that drug, I was in prison. I was in a young offenders, and I remember the first time I went there, I was in withdrawal stages. There was no help or rehabilitation or any kind of medication that he gave you back then. So you put you're in a cell and you're on a hardcore cold turkey, and it was, and he always brought, I never, never do this again. I'll never do it again, and then I'd say within two weeks of being released, I was back at it, and I was on that cycle of repeating the same mistakes but expecting different results. Did you get clean, did you go to rehab, get clean, and then went to Thailand to change your life? Yeah, well, that was, 2003 was like a significant moment in my life, I remember, being on the ad in HMP Liverpool, and I was looking around thinking, you know, I don't want to be, you know, cutting face reality, and needed help but I didn't know what to ask for it. And it was the other stage of the year, and a few of the lads decided to stay out and climb on the roof, and I thought that was a great idea. Three lads climbed on the roof, and the first guy that got up there, the whole prison, screamed, the yells of approval, all the windows were banging, everyone was going, go ahead lad. And I looked up and thought I wanted a bit of that. And that was the third guy up, and the climb was up, and half way up, I slipped and fell down. And I remember the scream coming from the muscle saying, you'll never get up there, you fat ass. And of course, with that prize and that ego. I'll show him. Yeah, I'll show him, and the failure so climbs up, and I was half way up again, and I was struggling. You know, and the rest of the guys that were up there, pulled me up, and they said this was something like an off-season rescue, you know what I mean? But the minute I got up, all the lads were screaming, all the windows were banging, go on Billy, here's right. And I was like, I felt so important at that time, for that moment I felt really like accepted by the prison community. And then it stopped and it was about the guy that was getting up next. You know, my 15 minutes of fame shall also speak it ended. But when I always speak about this, because it became a really significant movement in the decision making, I went to a prison after that, spent a long time in solitude confinement due to my behaviour. And I remember when the door got shut, I felt really hate and lost on that, and I'd have tears in my eyes. But when that door had opened, I'd pretend, I'd put a mask on and I'd act as if everything was okay. And there was no one I could speak to, you know, everyone had shut the door on me, I'd paint all bridges. And he had a couple of pounds on the credit, the phone credit and a fourth of phone, my mum. And I remember speaking to my mum on the phone and she's saying, I remember getting opened up actually on these two people. Screws, took me to the phone and I'm acting out, walking with a swagger. And the minute my mum answered the phone and heard my voice, she was quite like, where are you and what's going on. And knew that she cared and I had a lump in my throat and I felt really emotional and I couldn't answer that. And she knew, she just said, I know you need help. And that was the first time that I put pen to paper and wrote a letter to my probation officer. Requesting help and it came in the form of a rehabilitation in Bristol. And that's where it went, that's where it got me recovery. Initially it was three years. How were you feeling then? I was going through lots of loss really, lots of blame. Blame me that for the way it turned out. There was lots of sadness. But I was also excited as well at the opportunity of getting a new kind of wildlife in it. A new life? So is that when you decided to go to Thailand? Well it's funny really, I've got a passport, you know the recovery accessories, I've got a phone, a passport, a few friends that liked me, your girlfriend. And it's somewhere off of me, you know, the opportunity to go to Thailand for three months on a backpack and all of the, I shaved up and went along to Thailand. And I'm like a world-class card carrying pleasure here, you know what I mean? I enjoy anything that's good, I'll tear the ass out of it. So when I got there, I had no kids, I wasn't in a relationship, I had no ties, it was just me. I spent years in segregation units in prisons and I thought this was it, I want to live here. So when my friend went back I decided to stay, you know, and it's up to new culture and learning new language, which was a bad idea because it was quite immature emotionally as well. So it just opened a gateway to get kind of sucked in and back to where you were in Liverpool. When you got the jail in, was it Bangkok, how old was Bangkok? Clung Prem, it was Ladiao Clung Prem. I went to two prisons in Thailand, the initial one was Chiang Mai. And then from Chiang Mai after spending a year there, they took me down to Bangkok in Clung Prem prison. And that was three years? Three years. Because in there the first night you were there, you were sleeping next to a dead body, is that correct? Yeah, I mean, I got taken from the courts and marched into this shell block that I think was 79 in prison. And there was no way to sleep, you know, there was a little space in the corner, it was next to a lady boy and a guy who died the night before. And I remember the Thai lady boy's name was Tiffany and she had this little top on that said no money, no honey. A big bowl of lettuce in her thoughts. I'm grateful I've got no money because I'm more interested in the honey. And I remember them saying to me, I like your blue eye. I was thinking, I hope you don't like the brown one. And that was, I kind of got through them first few days with a bit of a, you know, I was just like that resilience, that something within. I'm not going to kind of like end up dead in one of these places. Because did you count as well 25 dead bodies get carried out the first week? The first week there was 25 bodies taken out of prison in white sheets. You know, we were stepping over them getting our medication in the hospital. It was quite daunting. Yeah, quite surreal as well. And it became normal and you know when you were talking about like being conditioned, I got conditioned to accept that as normality in the end. You know, I've seen some guy stabbing himself in the neck, stabbing himself in the chest, he had HIV, blood was pouring out of every orifice. And everyone was like shocked and looking. And my first thought was I can get some water while everyone's looking and distracted by him. It just became normal. This is like year after year of witnessing these kind of, however, where he's living. Yes, because over there is a lot of drugs in these prisons, a lot of knives. Is there any guns in these prisons? No, just knives. There was a lot of knives, ice picks, machetes. I mean these are not like homemade ships that you get in prisons in the UK. These were like full blown machetes and hatchets and cogs off bikes, you know, like the cogs that they use. Because they use that to chop up the ice and these are the instruments that they're being given. Because obviously that played a big part in your book, being in that prison, Prayer Before Dawn. Great book, great film as well. When did you start writing for that? I started writing it when I was in Thailand, just documenting little bits of what I'd seen and how I felt as well. That was important, you know, being really descriptive and admitting that I did feel scared and you know, writing that down and it kind of helped me. And then when I got to Wormsworth Prison, a showdish education teacher, an A4 piece of paper that I'd written, she took it away, came back and said, oh my God, that's amazing, you need to write more. At first, before she was stroking me ego, just trying to impress me, she encouraged me to continue writing the show I did while I was there because I couldn't really talk to people about what I'd experienced because they couldn't identify it. They were like, you know, we haven't actually been through those experiences so we don't really understand. So that helped, it was more therapeutic initially. I didn't expect to write a book, that was the truth. It was more to help me self because when I came back I was at a culture shock. I was speaking fluent Thai by this time. I was quite passive due to being conditioned in prison in Bangkok. I felt alien in a sense when I came back to the UK. It must have fucked with your head over there, especially with the shit you've seen. There were a lot of lady boys. How were they? They were vicious and violent, some of them, but it kind of added to the intimacy of the prison. They used to always play bingo and bring a different kind of experience as well to them. They were shelling themselves. See outside in silence, lady boys are shelling us like scum most of the time, but when they were in prison they were like superstars. Whenever my cup of tea in a sense of like I want a relationship with one of them, although in a film I portray Joe as meeting up with this young lady we call fame and she fell up in a relationship and it became intimate and then it became sexual. That never happened, that's fiction. So he's here. You can Google that. Obviously if you're in prison, the thing that's on your mind the most is Pussy. And if there's people listening because I've took girls home from a Saturday night drunk and I've been that. What the fuck have I done? So if you're over there because some of the lady boys are stunning, some of them are stunning, with a lot in the prison mental health and like addicts, stuff like that. Most of the lady boys that were in there were all drug addicts. They were in for drug dealing or killing boyfriends that they felt a bit of injustice around. The beautiful ones that they were all taking anyway. And the ones that had the full operation were segregated from the rest of the prison population. So that's because there was a lot of rapes in those prisons, wasn't there? It didn't matter whether you were male or female to be honest. It's just any old goes with them, you know what I mean? Was there a lot of gang rapes and stuff over there? There was, yeah. There's a lot of, like, I don't know how you say, genital mutilation. You know what they do with the penises, they cut it in half and put little bits of glass and stitch it up and squeeze it with vaseline so it's all kind of extending. It looks massive and, you know, they cut the force into four, it looks like flowers. You know what I mean when they stitch it all up? It's quite weird what they do to the penises, like. Yeah, that's crazy. That's nuts. Did you ever, when you started getting into the fighting side of it in the prison? Because you were back on the drugs in prison, you know what? Yes, it was, yeah. That's how you needed drugs just to kind of get through the day. Could you get it all right in the prison? Well, it was mostly like medication, some as you pan, volume, painkillers, diodes. Is he still running? Red rum all right? The fighting side of things because you were addicted to drugs but you were fighting a lot in that prison when you're not. I was causing a lot of chaos. You know, I couldn't understand what they were saying to me. The language barrier was really difficult. I thought they were like abusing me and insulting me and they probably were at the time. You know, you could tell in the way they were speaking, it was quite venomous. And it's just react, you know, with the look. You know, I couldn't see what they were thinking but I could see how they were behaving towards me. So that caused a lot of problems, really. With Michelle, I ended up fighting a lot. And it was only down to this one. Prison officer that said, you know, you need to kind of change your ways or you're going to end up dead. Because with the boxing side of things, you were in a bad car crash or a motorcycle accident? Yeah, I had a motorcycle accident in Llaw. I went from Thailand to Llaw to get a visa. It was a visa run. And I was on the wrong side of the road. And it was late, I had been using drugs at the same time, so I wasn't copus menses. I had two taxis, like tux tux, come race, they were chasing each other and they come crashing right into me. You know, smashed the bike that I was on in half. The chassis went up, smashed into me ribs. I had the angle bar punching me long. And one of the brake levers going to my stomach. And I got pushed, like, I got lost to a, like a Ted Wells hospital in a wheelbarrel. With a little kind of blood porn. And I knew it was quite horrible, Larry. Did you try and escape from the hospital? Did I read that, that you tried to escape? No, on this one initially, this was when I got arrested. Because I had to go for surgery when I was in Bangkok. Bangkok. So the accident had happened before I was arrested. Three months later, I'd been incarcerated. I'm in prison, I still got these injuries, they need looking at, they've sucked me to the hospital. I'm on the 7th floor in this hospital in Chiang Mai. And the prison guards, they just know where to be seen. They just chain up every 15 hours Pop has had in them. And I realised a pattern that was going on here. And it had a little bit of money off one of the missionaries that come up. So I could buy a little bit of fruit, a little bit of food that came around. And I made this, I was dying for the sugar, I was smoking at the time. I was just desperate for the sugar. And I went down the backstage to the exit. There's always something, and I couldn't believe it. I was outside and there was people on the grass having, like, picnics. And I could see a 7-Eleven in the background with the chemist next to it. And it didn't seem that far away. I had shackles on my ankles at the time and I thought I wasn't going to go over there. Just to buy cigarettes. I did, I made it, I made it over there. And instead of going to the shop to buy cigarettes, I went straight into the chemist and bought loads of trams with all the pain killers first. Put them away and then went to the shop and got cigarettes. Came back and no one had seen or read none. That was the first time I'd walked out of the hospital. And I went back upstairs to bed. And a couple of nights, every night I used to go down the steps and have a cigarette. And no one had been in sight, no one had been there at all. So I decided to make a break for it one evening. It was two o'clock in the morning. Went downstairs, out of the exit, climbed over the railing fence at the hospital and was walking around the city nearly hours in the morning. And I thought, what am I going to do? Where am I going to go? I can't steal a bike, you know. I can't steal a car, I've got these shackles on my ankles. You know, if I get caught, I'm going to get another 25 years on top because it's a big thing to escape. I could possibly get shot. And I made that decision to go back a couple of hours later. And when I went back, no one else, again no one had seen me or noticed that I'd gone. And I found myself back in my bed. I felt quite grateful to be honest that I'd made that decision back then. Yeah, because three years is bad enough, never mind getting another 25 years. And I didn't think the embassy were going to kind of support me or had me or had me or take me to back to the UK and go, all right, we've shaved them from. Well, see me, you're in there. How does the embassy treat you? Do you in contact with anybody? Can they send? Are you trying to get home? Are you trying to get a transfer? Have you got to finish your sentence over there? Well, the embassy used to come up once a month and just provide you with stamps and writing equipment, really. Not much, they couldn't really do much and they didn't do much. Prisoners abroad were good. They got us protein tablets and they used to send us 2,000 baht once a month in. Which, you know, helped a lot when I used that money to buy drugs. The protein tablets to swap for drugs. I couldn't face reality. I couldn't face the day. I just wanted to sleep it away. It was quite austere and barbaric. So any minds or moves also on chemical at that time, you know, was purchased. Over there? Yes, it's tough, it's a tough fucking, it's a tough one over there. Did you have a lot of friends with, within the vicinity who were British themselves? I didn't get on with the foreigners for some reason. No, I kind of fell out with them all. I'm very argumentative. They were very different from Australians, Arabians, Nigerians, lots of Africans. And I didn't get on well at all with them. See, when you were in the fight camp, because you were in the muti, did that help you in the prison to get away from the bastard after you have better treatment? I did. What happened with the boxing, I used to feel really envious to see them train. When I was desperate, I was fucked on the drugs. And then the drugs stopped coming because I couldn't pay for them. I was hungry and I think it was hungry in more ways than one. I was hungry to kind of live as well. I went along and tried to join the boxing team and refused to let me in and I kept coming back. Eventually he said, look, give me a chance here. And then a family unity and collectively as a group, I was getting supported. I was getting fed better. I learned to speak Thai. I started to smile a bit more. I started to enjoy life in prison a lot better than I did when I was using drugs. Some purpose in your life? Yes, some focus, some purpose. And it was an escape from the conditions for just a few hours, just that training. Because that training for like three, four hours a day, constantly I'd be on the bags, I'd be on the pads, I'd be in the ring. I'd be running around the compound, lifting weights. I'm going to say weights, it was like two tins of paint with concrete in it and a brush pole. You know what I mean? There was no real weights. It wasn't like this gym we're in, with red rum in the background. How was the food? The food was, oh my god, it was like sticky rice and like a soup with chicken heads in it. It was horrible. I put a spoon in, one's eye and it pulled out half a chicken fish with an eyeball in it. I'm like, what the fuck is this? I went to throw it away, one of the times I grabbed it off my spoon and it just started sucking its head. It was just, it stunk as well, it was horrible to kind of, it wasn't even edible. You couldn't even describe it. Do you ever get food poisoning or? A lot of times. A lot of shit a lot. I was poorly a number of times I was in and out of the prison hospital. I don't think that was just due to the food though, cos in the end the missionaries had come up and they'd buy a bit of bread and a few canteens of milk and that had helped. Some fruits as well. Cos obviously you've had a lot of lows in your life, but you've no idea how to defeat you. Because you are working with one of the biggest actors ever in the world, Sylvester Stallone. You were a stunt double in Rambo. How did that come about? Again, that was just quite random. I was in a gym in Chiang Mai and I was seeing this guy who looked familiar and I asked him if he was a boxer. He said no, he was an actor. His name was Matt Marsden and he worked on the sets of coronation seats in the UK. I wasn't a big curry fan but he was quite familiar in some areas. I must have seen him somewhere. I asked him what he was doing and he said he was filming a movie called Rambo 4 in Chiang Mai, Thailand. I was excited for him and all the best. Two weeks later a casting crew came into the gym where I was training. Took our names, our numbers, a few photographs and said they'd be in touch with me if they needed us. Two weeks after that I got a call and I thought it was one of my mates. He said you'll be Sylvester Stallone's stunt stand-in on Rambo. I was like fuck off. He didn't even look like him. He said no, you've got the shape, you've got the size. He's stunt stand-ins, he's got the shits with the green curries. So you're quite lucky and I was quite fortunate to get the opportunity and the money was shit. I didn't mind going because he was my hero. I grew up watching Rocky. I was the dad of growing up with the Rocky movies and the Rambo movies. He was my hero so I was just grateful to be on set and met him. I spent a lot of time with him on Europe One. He couldn't understand the way that was coming up my mouth. He said he needed subtitles to understand me. Hey man, what the fucking kind of language is this fucking talking about buddy? So that was a great experience, I really enjoyed that. I loved it. It was quite glamorous, it was an Hollywood movie set. I was quite fortunate to have these earlisters. How was it as a person, a big sly? He was quite intimidating initially. It's because you've grown up watching him. He had that aura of there was a presence when he was there, you knew he was there. People felt a little bit passive around him. It was me being me. I just went round and sat with him. I said you're my hero and he said no man, I'm a fraud. I'm just a fraud. Because he's got something to do with himself. He's brilliant to me. I respect his journey too. He's a great director. He seemed as if he was always in character. What you see on shit and in the movies is what you see in life. This is the way he was. Because he was near enough homeless and I think because he wrote the script for Rocky and he wanted to buy it for a hundred grand and knocked it back because he wanted to play the part. And I think he had to sell his dog and stuff. I read that story. So his dog and once he made Rocky and he played the part he went back to buy his dog. I think he sold the film for a hundred dollars. I might butcher this story here but I think he sold it for a hundred dollars and I wanted it back for like ten grand. I think he got the dog back. He created his own opportunities. That's what it's all about in life is creating your own opportunities. You can make your situations worse or you can make them better including yourself. You've been in a prison where you've probably one of the lowest points of your life and you've created it into a book and a film where you've won awards and you've done massive things. When you first wrote the book did you see it going as big as you thought? No, to be honest when I was in that prison in Thailand I've got to say it how it is. I wanted it in my life. I remember asking this Thai guy to sell me his shoelaces and he said I can't because he knew what I wanted to do. And I said why can't you do that for me? He said because collectively as a group as a shell we'll get punished. And it's one of the rules that you can't kill yourself. And I thought how bizarre is that? Because every morning there'd be ten rules and one of those rules was you can't commit suicide. I thought how fucked up is this jail? You can't have sex, you can't sell drugs, you can't have weapons, you can't kill yourself. All these rules got listed off every single morning I used to have to get up and stand to attention to the Thai national anthem. It was like a prisoner of war camp. How fucked up is that? I was forced to stand there 8am. Every morning. And I can remember that. And we'd all have to stand there to attention. My other flag went up. I'm like fuck this man, I'm not a fucker. Yeah that was weird. So yeah that was really all point laws where I wanted to live my life. People just kept intervening. It was weird, they just kept intervening. You know just be strong. You've only got a small sense and it's not that long. But a day in there was like a lifetime, you know, anywhere else. And when I started writing, it wasn't to write a book. It was to get through the feelings that I'd experienced. It was horrible man. I was writing about the pain and the fear and the loss and the loneliness and the separation from society. And I was reading the back to myself. And I was writing about my dad as well, growing up. The contributing factors that led to my drug use. And when I'd read it, I remember sitting in a cell on one's way of prison and reading it and sobbing. Because you know I couldn't escape the words that were on the paper. I was writing about my dad and you know the beatings he'd received and the rejection and the abandonments and the lack of love. And it is false and you know and I know we've got choices but sometimes the choices that we have in life are taken away from us. Especially at an early age. I grew up and I was free and I was carefree and I wanted to. I wanted to join the army. I had dreams of joining the British army and becoming a great boxer and you know when I ended up becoming a drug addict and spending most of my life in prison. I never imagined in me wildest dreams that that's what had happened. So when I started writing this it was never believed it had even become a book. So when it did become a book and it was published first in silent I was proud of what it achieved. I couldn't believe it. I was older than the UK at that time. It was quite small though. Not many people knew about it. And then I found the publisher in the UK and it became a best-seller within six months. And then I took this book to a production company in Liverpool just to open for a documentary. Something like a little bit of exposure. OK I wrote the story. I'd like the people to read it. Get a little bit of exposure about it. Maybe a documentary. I guess they wouldn't accept it. They told me to go away. I kept coming back. I said look you need to read this. And they were adding all the time from me. In the end they took it. I think they felt it was my favourite because they were doing it. So they took it. So we're being such. Three months later they got on social and had me shitting around and disabled with them. Shame. We loved the book in the ten years that we've been here as a company we've all put our hands up and said we want this to become a movie. And he was like a fucking movie. Are you serious? And then he started talking about A-list actors. I think Charlie Unum was on board. He was in Sons of Anarchy. He was on board for a year. And everyone was excited. And to be honest I'm glad he never took the role because it wasn't meant for him. The young kid that got the role of Joe Cole was absolutely powerful in the performance. I spent a lot of time with him. And he was keen and he was eager and he wanted this. You know what I mean? All the other names were just for the finances. Just accepted and it just felt what for them. Yeah it was like oh we'll get in because. And he didn't want Joe Cole. Right that's his food. And I said why not? Me the director wanted Joe Cole and he went why not? He said because he's not a big enough name for the finances. You know we've got to raise capital on people's names. I said well I don't care about raising capital on a name. I just want this story to be told as authentic as possible. With someone who's willing to throw it out of his hand. He put his hand in a soul into that. And you know we got him. We passivated. To be honest the production scene never had a name anyway. So it was good that we got him. So it's helped put everybody on the map. Do you think the book saved your life then? Writing it? I think it's done a bit of both to be honest. Kind of nearly kill me. It allowed me to talk about my past and my history briefly. And the experiences that I've been through. But then came like Diego. You know a lot of people started showing me attention. I couldn't cope with that. That was quite difficult. You know I was getting interviewed a lot. I was on the red carpet in Cannes. You know I was in a tuxedo. I've never even wore a suit unless it was going to court. I'm in a tuxedo in Cannes. I've got the paparazzi interviewing me and taking pictures. And I felt quite like it felt quite weird. It felt like it was someone else's life story being portrayed on the big screen. And it wasn't really me. And I didn't feel worthy. You know I didn't feel like I fitted in to society. I felt like a misfit. And I was confused why so many people were interested. For me I was just like a junkie from a council estate. That had been through a really tough time in life. Come out to your desire and motor body. And all of a sudden these people want to turn it into a movie. It was quite mad really. And I wasn't savvy in the industry. I admit that it had been a bit naive and it was misleading. You know. But you've got to be proud of it. Because it's your legacy that's going to be here from someone who has addiction problems who's not had the best upbringing to being in 22 prisons. To be in, making a film and a book about you. Because we spoke earlier. There's talk of you've got something else in the pipeline for the future for yourself. I've wrote once a prison again. I came to a scene to write books when I go to prison. So I don't want to do a trilogy. It's not going to be a part three. But this phase when I wrote when I was away. The second one I wrote when I was away. And the reason I can write like that is because I've got time. Obviously. And I'm with myself. Outside there's a lot of distractions. So when I wrote the second one I called. And I have titles to surrender from the heart. See people ask me why do you call a face when I pray before it's on. And I remember thinking of a title. I wrote some options. And I was thinking of a title for this new book. And I was thinking welcome to hell. And you know we can kind of. Dark. You know what you're going to expect. And I remember when I was in. I talked about it in the book. I was hungry. And. These Muslim guys offered me a bit of food. So I sat down with them and ate with them. And I thought to myself I'll come back the next day. So when back the next day I said really Billy only the Muslim brothers eat here. These were all Malaysians and. And. So that's okay. So put us a wrong on. Change me names you use of Muhammad. And sat with them for a year. You know I'll let you speak Arabic. You know I read the Quran. I understood. You know we asked them questions as well. Because I wanted to know. You know what's all the say. Extremism going on about what's what's. You know I didn't know. It's only what I've. Seen the news of the radio. The news the radio. What I've read in the papers. We had them off. But they were quite lovely. So they moved me into the shell. So I prayed five times. I got it every morning. That's right through the prison system. And then it'd be. You know the man I'd be calling. The prayer to Fajah. And that was the prayer before dawn. So. I thought to myself. You've got Christians Muslims. A Buddhist all praying at the same time. And then the opening gates. To go out in the compound. It's like it's like hell on earth. You know when everyone's fighting just to get through the day. So it was quite ironic really. So I called it. I named it. I prayed before dawn. But the second one. You know it was surrender from the heart. It's more of a backstory. The contributing factors that led up to. Yeah. Why is there not a picture at the front? I said I'd have one in the front. I don't know. I don't know. They should do. It's a bit of pissing me. I think there's one in. There's not even one on the back is there? No. Yeah. I'm not pretty enough. Because when you were in prison as well. You got a tattoo. Yeah. But the tattoo. They took over a week. And the tattoo there they used. Guitar strings. Rusty guitar strings with ink. That was smuggled in. Yeah. Very painful. Very painful. And it cost me a sleave of cigarettes. And I was under the influence of drugs. When he asked for it to be his own. I thought it was a god's idea at the time. And I was interested in me moot-eye boxing. A box for England as a schoolboy. I was involved with the NEBCs, the ABAs, the ABCs. And that was part of my life all the time. Fighting had always fought. You know, fought at home. With fought on the streets. With fought on the prison landings. And the biggest worry ever fought was with our felt and admitting. You know. I needed courage to ask for help. So they were kind of like. It was all about fighting. So yeah I got a moot-eye boxer put on my back. The tattoo. Guitar strings. Guitar strings. Guitar strings. It was quite. And he fucked it up as well. I don't know what I mean. He ran out of ink. Right, he ran out of ink in the gym. The filler on the back. And the tattoo. He's got a big pink head too. And a big bouffons. A ffumin. Kids when you were in. Because in that prison as well. You're mixed with pedophiles. And you're not just mixed with rapists. You're mixed with rapist pedophiles. There's no sections or protection wings. There's no numbers or protection. It was like your bangs up. I was bangs up with some unsavory characters. And people knew what they were in for. And no one was attacking them. Or verbally abusing them. The crimes that they committed. Some of them. Wraping on two year old babies. And you know. Grooming. Kids you know what I mean. It was horrible. Yes. It's bad for that over there. Many feel uncomfortable to be honest. Yeah. But another big. You've had that many fucking fights in your life Billy. But you had cancer. Cancer in the neck. She yeah. I'd like to talk about that briefly. Because I was. I came back from Ireland. I'd rebuilt my life. I'd got a job working. You know. In the community helping addiction recovery. I was full time employed. I had a house bar as Sam. A car. You know. I loved my relationship. Five years down the line. My dad had passed away. Cancer. Sorry to hear that. I was at his bedside. And I told him I loved him and he held his hand. And it was. You know. You know. It was heartbreaking. Because he told me he loved me at the same time. And he died. And that's all he ever wanted from my dad. And. Got this diagnosis. Pretty quick. Pretty quick. Pretty soon after he passed away. And. I was on set playing the role of my father. That's. You know. I've. Kind of acknowledged his life. Playing the role of my dad. It was hard because. I'd been diagnosed with cancer on set. Playing the role of my dad. Watching this young lad. This young actor come through. And the director says to me. If you're your father. What would you say to your son? You know. Those are the ones that my dad says. I love you. And when this young kid come towards me. And I was looking at him. And her eyes locked. And he knew what was going on. Because he'd done a character study. And it was 5 am in the morning. It was in the Philippines. Where we were filming. And I was like. I could. I was just that emotional. You know. I was welling up that much that I could even. Most of the ways I love you. To this. Young Billy. This young me really. To kind of connect with him. And then it ended. The movie finished. I still went home. The cancer progressed. I was on chemo therapy by the stage. I had three operations. I was introduced back to opiates. Production team have moved on. The director's doing his editing. The actors gone on to other job opportunities. You know. I'm left at home now. I'm sick of me. You know. Me met Lelstras as a deteriorate. I'm taking more and more drugs. To. Kind of avoid. The feelings that I'm feeling. You know what I mean? I don't really. You know. The impending zooms in my mind. And you know. Waking up. Thinking I'm going to die. Cos that's all I ever. I fought. The cancer. Cancer was. You know what I mean? You're going to die. It's all that passed away. You're going to go. You know. The fuck it's kicked in. And. Any money that had paid off the movie. Which was only. Little amount. That's spent. Eh. Sanna. Burry me shelf. In a narcotic. Kind of. Kind of stupid. But. Thankfully you've. You're all clear. Yeah. And also. You're 18 months. Cleaning sober again. Yeah. Shake your hand for that brother. Thank you. Yeah. 18 months clean today. You know. You know. Sanna get a morning clean was difficult. But. You know after all that. You know. You know. I went back to prison. Didn't I? I said that before. Eh. And I went back to prison clean. I was five months in recovery. You know. That was a new experience. Spending a year. In. A prison in Liverpool. Being an observer. Eh. Clean. Clear minded. Watching the. The drug and juice paranoia on the landings. People getting slashed. People stabbing each other. People getting sexually abused with this new drug. Spice. You know. I'm witnessing it. And I started. This is where the second story comes in. I started to write about what. Me. Janey from. Being released. From once where it was like up until the present day. You know. The cancer. The contributing factors that led to me relapse. Eh. The crime that I committed. It was. A regimen with me neighbor. I went through his house. I got arrested charged. And because of me yesterday. I got a sentence. You know. What's embarrassing. And I feel really ashamed of. The actions. Because you're in the public eye now. Yeah. So anything you do is going to be. Blown out of proportion as well. I'm not. So you're a big man. It's nice to see you. Eh. Because anything you do from being on the red carpet and cans from doing. Movies were. Sylvester Stallone. And anything you do now. It's going to be. A hundred times worse than what it actually is. Yeah. But you've got to kind of take that on the shoulder. You've got to kind of take that on the chin as well. But for moving on for the future for you. What's the plans? And what do you see yourself? Now that you're clean. Now that you're sober. Now that you're cancer free. Do you. Does that scare you as well? That the cancer could come back? Or does it scare you? Listen we could all relapse. I don't know what the fuck's round the corner. I don't know what's happening. I mean you could be lining a crack down. Yeah. The night. Sharing. Sharing a paper bag. You were over the. That's all out of something. Right over to Thailand. So the plans for the future. What's there? What do you see? There's a future bright for you. Surely it is because everything you've come through. You're clearly a strong character. You beat cancer. You're writing a second book. So what do you see yourself in the future? This time do you see it? Positive, happy? See my life today right. I live with my mum in a bungalow. Sleeping on a sofa. Wearing a tag. In a house with seven little dogs. All little bishons like. I was released from prison Christmas Eve. I had high expectations of doing things. I felt ashamed of going to prison on a public vlog and I'd probably received it. And to be fair it wasn't that bad. People kind of understood. Channel 4 news. Fucking hell air horrible. There is different agenda which upset me. But I had interviews with Professor Green and the independence and Liverpool echo. And they were quite fine. I mean they had quite an understanding of me's demise and me's yearning. But yeah, you know, it's just of being out. It kind of put me focused in CC young kids. You know, it was a box. I'm a chairman for a knife gang, well a knife crime campaign in Liverpool. It's called Platform for Change. It's Annie's Place and it's, you know, it's meeting people in the community coming together to kind of guide young kids into a new way of living. And that's important. I don't think, you know, I wish I had someone when I was younger to give me that guidance in that direction. It was quite different, you know. I don't think we had that kind of funding back then. But it's nice to have the opportunity to help someone else. That ulcerism. Being ulceristic. I'm not asked about money. I'll tell you that James. I've never been. I've not got a fucking participation. I couldn't care less. I enjoy life. I enjoy living. If I can put a smile on your face, right, that rewards me. If you can pick up the phone and want to speak to me and go build, you know, what I've got a problem with. Can you listen to what I've got to say and maybe, you know, share a bit of your experience. Then that's enough. I'm not Moriorian, says it. Never have been. I've been nice. You know, you measure a bit more luxurious. Yeah, but it's never been a big, big thing. I've got a little car. And I've been building that relationship up with my mum. I'm not going to assume progress and moving off the couch. I'm quite happy being there at the minute. But again, it's all, you know what needs to be done now. You've wrote a successful book. Bestseller. You've created a film from it. So who says you can't do it again? This time you've made on the ball. Because in this industry a lot of people are out to fuck you. And you've clearly had a chat earlier where you're only getting a very small percentage, a very, very small percentage of the things that you're doing in your life. It's other people that is rewarding and benefiting from it. I think people always ask me the same question. The two questions that I've always been asked, was that seen in the film with the lady boy through? No, it wasn't. And how much are you getting? You'd get more on benefits than you would from making a movie. That's the truth, you know what I mean? It's crazy on it. It's people think you write a story and they make a movie about your life and you load it. But it's not the truth, you know what I mean? Seem you were a prisoner of the last thing. That was after the film and that was after everything was. But you're still in contact. A lot of people turned their back on you. How was it for your experience? Cos I know you just said you did it clean. So obviously you're more aware. You're aware of your actions even more. And we speak about it all the time. Wasn't I sure that? The only people who maintained contact was Joe Cole, the actor. Contact him. We were speaking a lot on the phone but also was away. And he was non-judgmental. He was very supportive. He was understanding. And that's because he spent a lot of time with me and he knows me. I understand the clear amount. Most of the things that I did I wouldn't do in clean. So he was there for me. And a few of the distributors, they were there. They were supportive and they helped me when I got out. The producers, they moved on. Especially the ones in Liverpool. I'm quite upset that the way they turned their back on me. I committed a crime. It's not a crime of the sense. I'm proud of that fact. But I didn't get up one day and go on and do that. Unless you're going to harm other people. It saddens me to say it. It really really does. I feel... There's no more to fuck them. We all make mistakes. We don't know what's round the corner. We regret things that we do. But we're human. You're a man enough to accept it. And you're a man enough to move on from it. For me, anybody that's turned their back on you. Fuck them. Do you know what I mean? You've been in a lot more loner positions than waiting for someone to maybe get you a letter up or try and help you out. But again, you've come through them all. You've come through that much in your life to get to where you are, to where you are now. Now you're thinking fat again. You're doing big things mate. So now you're doing the knife crime things. It can be disheartening. See when you... After the book came out and the film came out, is that when you started dabbling again? And the drugs, did it get... The attention kind of push over the edge. No, but it was the moments that got diagnosed with the cancer. And then the reintroduction back to opiates. Now, as you said at the beginning of the interview, I'm the kind of person that, you know, I'm allergic to drugs. If I don't break out on lumps and bumps, I break out on pain, misery and loss. And he ends up in cuffs. This is what happens. So when I got reintroduced back to where opiates, you know, the doctor had given me painkillers and told me to take two every four hours. And then I'd start abusing. I'd take four every four hours. Then it'd be six. And then I liked the feelings. And then it'd be like... It might have been cloudy with all this kind of... These drugs. And it didn't want to feel no more. And, you know, before, longer than the grip of addiction. And I'm snowballing massively into it. And my drugs become more important in my life, in my family, in my friends. I separate myself, so it was on that. It was just... I was in cans under the influence. And you wouldn't know. You wouldn't sell, because I ate it very well from everyone. We are good on our own. The addicts are the best we can hate. My inipulative would blame, you know, I'd blame her on the illness. I'd blame her on the cancer. You know, you look like you've lost a bit of weight. Oh, yeah. Well, you know why. You know, to be honest, right James? I get really nervous when it comes to interviews. And I remember being interviewed by a few people. I become scripted and I've seen it before. I don't really want to sound like someone who's reading off the script. Yeah, talk the same stuff. No, I enjoy it. I enjoy my life. We've only got a few short decades here. I want to do something good with it. I want to enjoy it, you know what I mean? I want other people to enjoy theirs. If they can help you, yeah. If you're willing to meet me halfway, then fine. If you want to help me, then, you know, and I'll meet you halfway, then that's good. You know, I haven't got a... I haven't got a publisher for this new book. You know, I've been there since I was 11. You know, loads of trust issues over the last three or four years. Three or four years. You probably had trust issues all your life, but then you start seeing people being sleeker and fucking your left-right centre again, then your trust issues are going to come back. So for anybody watching, because we get a lot of people watching and listening, because we want to get your second book published. We won't even get it made into a second film. So for anybody watching or listening, how can people get in contact with you, Billy? Beacon, contact me via Twitter or, you know, I've got an email. It's Billy Moore, Fethy Fave at yahoo.co.uk. Facebook. All the social media sites. Definitely get involved in a book. Quite, quite. I've got Instagram and quite open. You know what I mean? To get in a book and get involved in... Again, that's your story going through the cancer. The other story, I've been back in prison, it's... You have got a story to tell, and people are interested in, even though it can be against your misery, which is tough. You know what, it's mad at me, because I don't think I've got life of stories. It's all I think I'm just another... I'm when I hear a cringe relating. Religial. Embarrassed. Yeah, I get embarrassed. I even get embarrassed about... Selling people of red one, you know what I mean? Yeah, of course, but you've still got to value your worth, because when we do good things, we spoke about it earlier, we feel as if we don't deserve it. Why are we doing this? We don't be standing in a red carpet. We don't deserve to be making a film with good actors. And that's just because we've been told we're not good enough for such a young age, we feel as if. But again, fuck everybody else. We've all got a past. We'll make mistakes, but anybody can change. Fuck you, yeah. So far, for anybody... We've got a lot of people who's got addiction problems and who watch this show as well. For anybody in the struggle, what advice would you give them right now? Because you're 18 months clean again, you're back on the path, you're thinking straight, you're wanting to do good things. So what kind of advice would you give for someone who's in the struggle? I'd just say, look, if you're going to struggle, struggle with a smile and, you know, take each day as it comes and it's... stay vigilant, don't take life too seriously, but make sure your recovery is important. It's like, I go to meetings and a pair of people talk about recovery and people talk about clean time. And after a time of self-talk, that negative talk, I feel shit today or this, that and the other. Do you know what? The more you sell yourself that, the more you're going to believe it, the more you're going to condition yourself when you start selling yourself. It's okay, you know, you're alive, you've got foods in the cupboard, so you've got a roof over your head. Some people might not have that, but you've got people in your life who will support you and who are willing to help you. And that's what it's about. It's about chaining up. You know, I've got a head full of car zones. My head is like... I get obsessed and then compose the zoo things. At the minute, I'm on a mad kind of training regime where I want to drop a few pounds because I feel fat. And people say you look great, but to me I don't. I think, oh, you look overweight and you need to be fit. And I forget that I'm 46. You know, I can go round with MMA fighters and you know what I can do. And I want non-stop on an email and shake it so I can get in the ring and spare them. In here, we're still 16 and 18. Yeah, yeah, I'm still a kid. I'm still a young man. But again, I said to you, you have lost a lot of weight. You're clearly on the path, you're clearly doing well again. And it's great to see, mate, because you're a fucking diamond. You're a good guy, Billy. I wish you all the best for the future. The girl from exercise for less because we're in this gym and we'll give her a shout out. Kayleigh. Kayleigh, she's hiding now for using her gym. And thanks to Kayleigh. How can we get, how can people get involved in your book? Prayer before dawn. You can get that on Amazon. Amazon. Yeah, I think it's that. There's a few. I mean, you've only got a Google. I'll put any thoughts on it. It'll come up, you know. And you can watch it on YouTube. Also, you can pay for it on YouTube. And we're also... Sky on Z-Mans. Sky on Tunes. Google. I'm going to try to get it on Netflix. There's also, there's also on the DVD. There's an interview or a documentary with me, Professor Green. But you can only watch that if you buy the DVD. It's not on YouTube though. It's mad. It's just quite interesting. But for anybody, get involved, anybody can help Billy out with his new book, or documentaries or whatever, because he's got some stories. He's a great guy. Again, if you want to promote or anything, anything, is that it? Yeah, it's it. Brilliant. Thank you very much. Thank you for coming on it and telling your story. I appreciate that. We're a great guy. Thank you.