 Thank you for joining us for the Society and Webinar, Your Future, Your Finances, How Do I Pay for Dental School? This joint venture between the American College of Dental and the American Dental Education Association is brought to you to help expand knowledge about financing and dental education. During the webinar, you will hear from two dental students, a resident and financial aid administrators who will provide insights and guidance on borrowing for dental school and managing finances while a dental student. After listening to our participants and hearing what they have to share, we hope you walk away knowing that dental school debt can be managed, and most importantly, a dental education is a worthwhile investment. I am Dr. Carolyn Booker, Chief of Educational Pathways with the American Dental Education Association and would like to introduce our participants today. We have Ms. Elizabeth Aum, a dental student at Boston University, Harry M. Goldman, School of Dental Medicine. Ms. Liam Shields, a dental student at Boston University, Harry M. Goldman, School of Dental Medicine. Dr. Shawn Rathburn, a third-year resident at the University of Oklahoma College of Dental History. Mr. Paul Gerard, the ideas senior financial aid consultant, Ms. Karen Gilliam, Associate Director of Financial Aid at Virginia Commonwealth University School of Dental History, and Mr. Gardner Key, Director of Financial Aid, Harvard School of Dental Medicine. Now let's hear from our panelists. Hi, everyone. My name is Elizabeth Aum, and I am a D2 student at Boston University, School of Dental Medicine, and I am from Washington, D.C. Hey, Elizabeth, thank you for being with us today for our webinar on your future, your finances. I have a couple of questions for you. As we go through this, please feel free to just answer very comfortably and share your experiences. So let's begin. Did you develop a budget as a dental student? Yes, for the first year, I ended up taking out the maximum amount of loans that I could take out because I was paying for rent, utilities, and other spendings all on my own with no additional help. So to keep myself accountable, I created an Excel sheet for every month and divided my loan money monthly, and then on the Excel sheet, I would write out my necessary spendings like rent, utilities, including groceries as well. And then I would just be more mindful when it came to different months. Since I'm up here in Boston and it gets pretty cold during the winter time, I would make I would make small notes of that and just be more mindful. And then whatever was left over, I would use that for personal spendings. But I do recommend going on Google, finding a free budgeting template or just simply making your own on Excel like I did. If you would like my template, feel free to email me and I will gladly send it to you. Great. OK, so thank you. That's very insightful. Very important to know the process of budgeting and creating a budget and staying with it. Sounds like you're doing an excellent job in that arena. So my next question for you in terms of budgeting, did you have did you have the financial literacy to understand how interest rates impact your borrowing on federal loans? So to be completely honest, no, I did not have the financial literacy to understand that. In undergrad, I actually did not take out any loans, which is why I was very unfamiliar with it. And also the year that I started dental school was an all time I started during the pandemic, so there was a fixed interest rate. And I believe there still is until the end of January. But I do recommend if you are or if you were in the same boat as I was, do your research, reach out to dental student or faculty members to learn more about how interest rates work, because that will definitely help you in the future. OK, great. So the last question I have for you is related to were you exposed to financial literacy in dental school? Have your dental school program produced a character? Have you all enrolled in any financial literacy programs? Yes, so actually I was first initially exposed to loans during my dental school interview process. And I really liked my interview experience, especially at BU, because we had a member from their financial aid office come and talk to us about loans and lay down all the facts, all the tuition costs, the cost of living, etc. And so I found that to be very helpful. And I believe most dental schools do that during their interview process. So that was definitely a plus. And then my sister is actually in pharmacy school. So she was she's going through the same thing as me. So I was able to get a lot of help from her. And then lastly, I ended up just doing my own research with the help from Adia, and I would go on their website, look for answers. And that's actually where I found out about the National Health Service Corps Scholarship, which I am a recipient for. And then I can go more in depth about that. And then BU actually does a really good job with offering a bunch of seminars with financial aid loans, how to manage your money well. So definitely a plus with that. Great. Thank you. You mentioned the National Health Service Corps Scholarship. Why don't we take this opportunity and let you share a little bit more about that scholarship? It's a great opportunity for many students. Yeah, sure. So the National Health Service Corps Scholarship is basically a program where they help you throughout dental school. They pay for your tuition and they give you other reasonable costs such as rent and utilities and all that. And in return for your service for the Service Corps after dental school. And so I am a recipient for the three year scholarship. So after dental school, I will be working for them for three years. And it's a great opportunity to get experience, help communities and also very beneficial for dental students throughout dental school. So definitely encourage pre-dental students to look at the scholarship as well as other scholarships. I know there's the military one and then there's a lot of scholarships that schools provide individually. So that is definitely helpful with that. Right. Thank you. So Elizabeth, tell us a little bit about anything you want to share with students considering a career in dentistry. Yeah, sure. So I chose dentistry for many reasons. Growing up, I really enjoyed playing the piano and the cello. So I knew that I wanted to do something where I could not only incorporate my love for using my hands and being hands-on, but also my love for communicating and working with people. Growing up as well, I was a translator for my parents as they're not fluent in English. And so that taught me that I really enjoyed making these interpersonal connections with people. And so those two reasons really drew me to dentistry. And so in undergrad, I was able to meet a mentor who was my bit, ended up being my big for the pre-dental society. And since then, I have shadowed a bunch of dentists and really, really enjoyed the lifestyle that these dentists had. And so I am currently in dental school right now. I have been exposed to so many different aspects of dentistry. Not only is it just hands-on, but like I said, it's also working with patients, solving problems and overall just a great way to not only help your community, but also grow as an individual. Right. Thank you. Hi, my name is Liam Shields and I'm a first year student at the Boston University, Henry M. Goldman School of Dental Medicine, and I'm from Osterville, Massachusetts. Liam, thank you for being with us today. A few questions for you by some of your experiences with financial aid. Rumor has it that some students misappropriate their student loans for things other than dental school expenses, such as vacations, cars, et cetera. You're in the dental school environment. Tell us, have you experienced or heard anything about this among your colleagues or friends? In my experience as a first year dental student, I think that the financial aid departments at each school have done a really good job stressing that we shouldn't borrow more than we owe and that we shouldn't feel obligated to go up to our complete cost of attendance. A lot of students in my class, they don't buy things like cars. They don't go on extravagant vacations. I live in Boston and go to school in Boston, and you have to account for things like the cost of living in the city of groceries, of buying coats because it gets really cold outside. And so I think, from my experience, the most students have done are buying coats to survive going to class. But there are tons of ways to save money that is living with roommates. I currently have the two roommates to save money in the city. Some kids will go up to the full cost of attendance to live in their own singles. But from my experience, a lot of kids are being really smart about their money and how they spend it. I don't know anyone that's been going away to Italy or France. We're all studying for our tests and we're spending the money in a way that's going to make sure that we have the most success possible in dental school. Great. I believe you, and that was my impression too, but you know, we have those rumors that flow around and sometimes we have to address our rumors. Of course, sometimes you'll see kids, they might go on vacation and rumors will spread around schools quick. I mean, the schools are really small. So if a dental school class size is 140, some kids are gonna stay some things. But I think more often than not, kids are gonna spend wisely. I agree with you. Thank you. So my next question for you is, do you think the financial investment that you're making in your dental education is going to be worth it? I totally think the financial investment is worth it. And so do my colleagues. It shouldn't be about the money. I'm going into any career field that really shouldn't be about the money either. If you really love something and you put all your effort into it, the money is going to come. And the most important thing is doing what makes you happy and investing in yourself. And dental school and getting a professional degree is the greatest investment you can put into yourself that you could ever ask for. And every single moment that I'm in the classroom, every moment I'm in the service learning lab at my school working on a composite on an amalgam doing a crown prep, I totally feel like it's worth it. And it's the best investment I've ever made in my life. Wonderful. That's very exciting to hear. Okay, so no question I have for you. Thinking back to high school, college, those early days when you were thinking about and planning for a career in dentistry. Is there anything that you know, now you wish someone had told you then that would have prepared you for borrowing and even thinking about the payment of those loans? Thinking back to high school and college, I wish I knew how expensive going to dental school was and how expensive going to undergraduate is. So going back, I would talk a lot more with my guidance counselor in order to figure out ways to strategically go to school for the least amount of money, at least for the undergraduate degree because a lot of dental schools and professional schools don't have a lot of financial aid to offer. So I personally applied to a lot of state schools and private schools. And because I did go to my guidance counselor, he directed me towards the college that I ended up going to that was needs blind admission. And they covered a great deal of my tuition through a financial scholarship. And that really helped me with my decision of going to Boston University for Dental School because I didn't have a lot of undergraduate loans. And if that's not the case for you and you are stuck with a lot of undergraduate loans and you're looking at paying the full price at a school, you can look and you can talk, I wish I knew how talking to my financial aid department at my college and talking to the financial aid department at my prospective dental schools, they actually offer a ton of resources for providing ways to pay back and also calculate what kind of loans and interests that you're going to accumulate. I know that when I started talking to my, the dental schools I was applying to, they pointed me to the ADA website that has a financial aid calculator. And it talks about the type of loans that you can take out, the interest that you can accumulate. And that really puts in the perspective, the investment you're putting into your future and what kind of loans that you should be taking out. Also, they directed me towards scholarships and repayment programs that are available. I know a lot of kids who are a part of the HPSP Navy Army Air Force scholarship that have their tuition paid for and receive a monthly stipend. I know a lot of kids who are part of the National Health Service Corps, that's a scholarship that awards them for going into four years of service after school and working in community centers and under resourced areas. They also receive a stipend and receive the full cost of attendance. Now say you aren't awarded those scholarships. Maybe you already got into a school accepted it in the scholarship deadlines past. Talking to your financial aid department, they can lead you in the direction of applying to certain things that can help repay those loans that you already took out, such as through the Army Navy Air Force and the National Service Corps. There are programs where you work in those areas, those communities, through those different environments and they'll give you tax-free money towards putting back into your loans. And so you can fight back and repay those loans as fast as possible. But again, I wanna stress that if you really do love the field of dentistry, it should never be about the money and you should never worry about the investment that you're putting into yourself. It's always gonna be worth it at the end of the day. Okay, Liam, share with us any thoughts that you want to pass on to others about being a dental student, applying to dental school or just this whole process. As a first year dental student at Boston University, in my third, fourth month of school, I just wanna stress that this is the best investment I've made in my life and I can already see myself growing as not only a dental professional, a prospective dental professional, but as a person as well. Every day that I'm in class, every day I'm in the simulation lab working on amalgams, composites. I really feel myself developing as a person and I wouldn't wanna be anywhere else but dental school. And so to everyone that's applying, everyone that's thinking about applying, everyone that's currently in the process, please do not worry about the money because you're investing in yourself and there are ways to repay back those loans. There are ways to go about getting those loans covered and if you really do wanna be a dentist, I would not hesitate at all applying to dental school because it's the best experience I've had in my life. Great, thank you. My name is Sean Rathburn. I am a third year resident in an oral and maxillofacial surgery program at OU here in Oklahoma City. I graduated from University of Texas San Antonio in 2019 and then I started the program and then my hometown is New Boston, Texas. Dr. Rathburn, thank you for being with us today to talk about some of your experiences and financial aid and borrowing for dental school. Let's begin with a couple of questions for you. So my first question is, where do you go for information about student loans and repayment? The internet, first and foremost, like most other people these days, the internet's our first thing that we start to Google. And so studentaid.org is a great website to get started on. It's a federal website that talks about loan repayment, loan options and things you can do to not only to explain the interest rates and the monies that you'll take out but also the ways to pay it back. Another website is student loan hero. So student loan hero is another, it's very similar but it talks about loan repayment options that are out there in situations where, which are you gonna do like an Indian health payback or are you going to do like VA, are you gonna do military, things like that or other private loan options and things like that. So I think the internet, first and foremost, and then second and not less than is going to be your student aid counselors at any program that you're applying to or any that you get into. They are there to help you, they're very wonderful people and they are always great resource to talk to, bounce questions off of, get a basic understanding of what you're gonna be going through and what you're gonna be experiencing and how to prepare for it. Great. So thank you, that's very helpful and we do want to emphasize there are many resources out there and it's very important for students to take advantage of the many options that can help them. So as you were thinking about it and you're planning for all of this great opportunity to be a dentist, what would you think of as some of the best practices for incoming students to think about when talking about creating a budget, planning for this and knowing that they're going to incur quite a bit of debt? Some of the best practices is obviously to remember that you're a student at the end of the day and that even though you got out of college and you feel that you wanna live above your means and you wanna buy some of those things that you maybe didn't splurge on and buy in college, that you're still a student. So you still have to budget like our wonderful PhD individuals out there, they usually don't get paid a large sum of money when they're going through those graduate programs and they're earning their PhDs and so a lot of them, they're very good at budgeting. And so I'd say live like that, live like you're in college. Remember that at the end of the day that you have to pay those loans back. And so for every cent that you save is a cent that you save yourself in the future and that you ended up not paying interest on. I think that's probably one of the best things. So another good quote is just, you don't have to do the whole keeping up with the Joneses type situation. You live within your means, keep a roommate, something to half your costs, keep down on driving expenses, no new cars, all of those things are wonderful things to have or to do when you're in that situation to save yourself money. I think I looked up earlier that the OU here is the average cost of living is $30,000. So that's something that I would go nowhere near. I would think that you need to stay half of that unless you have a family or something like that. But having a roommate and cutting down on your vehicle expenses and cutting out on going out to eat all the time, all of those things help to reduce that burden and make it to where you don't come nowhere near those costs and help to reduce your overall debt. Some good advice and some good insight to remind people to think about is not just spending but you gotta pay it back as well. Absolutely. We also, in those lies, think about this as a financial investment in your dental education. What are your thoughts about having this and having people to say to you this is a financial investment for you? Sheryl, that's what do you think about that? With the financial investment in your future, I wholeheartedly agree. But like all things in all investments, you have to look at it and look at the pros and the cons and you have to evaluate if that investment makes sense to you and to your personal situation. Obviously, it's very different when you're going to a cheaper school. For instance, like in most Texas schools, OU here in Oklahoma, I think even LSU in Arkansas, a lot of the Southern schools are vastly cheaper than your East Coast and your West Coast programs. Just based on their location in New York, it's a very expensive place to be and to do anything. And so when you're looking at $100,000 a year in tuition versus 30 or $40,000 a year, that's a vast different. And that's a difference that you have to understand and interpret and address when you're talking about from an investment perspective. Also, just like in any investment, you have to look at what you're comfortable with. Where is your cost of living going to be when you get out of school and you get out of those programs and how much are you comfortable making? Are you comfortable, if you take out a large $400,000 or $500,000 loan for your student debt, are you comfortable living at a lower means for those years, year for years after it to pay those back in an adequate manner? Do you have a program set up? Are you gonna be able to go military to pay those, so that you don't have that type of debt, which would completely change the situation? Possible specialties, but again, that delays your income. So those are all adequate ways to address that, but I do definitely agree that it is an investment, but I would say go out and address it as an investment and look at the pros and the cons and where does it make sense to you? Because in some situations, it's not. And in some, it's gonna be a great investment, but that's the best thing. If you need to talk to a financial advisor, I would say go out and talk to them beforehand. Usually, they're pretty kind to people that say that they're gonna be a future doctor and they're going to be out working in the world. So I would say that that's probably the most important things. Great, thank you. Some good information and you're right. It's something you have to really think about in terms of where and how you want to invest in your future. Thinking about that, when we think back, I ask you to think back to high school or college. Those days may seem like a long time ago, but is there anything that you know now you wish someone had shared with you then in preparation and planning for being a dentist and borrowing money for dental school? Probably not, but one thing that I did here is I try to read as much as I can. I try to think about the financial in the world and Dave Ramsey had a great quote and the quote is live like no one today so you can live like no one tomorrow. And that whole quote is the goal is so that you save money today and every dime that you save today, you can reinvest in your future in a different ways. And if I'm not buying those lavish things, I'm not buying the new car and I'm not maybe living alone yet and maybe I'm having a roommate, all of those expenses, then I can take that money, save on the loan and then invest in the future. And in your fund, in your future investments, in your practice, in your community, all of those things, you can then make the choice with that money. Whereas if you don't make that choice early on, you don't have it, the only choice you have is to pay off your student loan and that money will go to it. And to always think that at the end of the day, for every dollar you borrow, it's not uncommon that it's gonna, at the end of a normal 10 year loan term or more, that you'll be paying back $2 for every dollar you borrow. So for every coffee that you get or $4 grand a latte or something that you get from Starbucks that you're gonna be paying twice to that at the end of all of it. So it's just live like no one today so that you can live like no one tomorrow, I think is the safest way. Great. Thank you so much. I'm Paul Gerard, Senior Financial Aid Consultant with the American Dental Education Association. Mr. Gerard, thank you for being with us and we are happy to have you to share with you among your wealth of experience and higher education, financial aid, borrowing and loan repayment. We are excited that you can bring some experience to this topic that can help so many students as they're making their plans for dental school. My first question for you is, what insights can you share with our participants and our attendees on how students can know and keep track of what they're borrowing as they go throughout their dental education? When we're asked about the best way for students to track their borrowing and to know about repayment options after they graduate from dental school, I would simply say that it's easier than ever to do so. All the federal loans that dental school students borrow and most folks only are borrowing federal student loans, they're all coming from the same source, the direct loan program directly from the federal government and all those loans are housed on one database at studentaid.gov. One advantage that dental school students will have is that even though you may be borrowing a lot of money and different loans while you're in dental school, they should all be with one loan servicer when you graduate. And so even though you may have a lot of debt and different loans, they're all going to be in one place with one loan servicer. They're all housed again at studentaid.gov. And folks, that includes loans from college and perhaps a post-bac program you may have. Mr. Jarrod, based upon all of that experience that you bring to the table and your insight, can you share with us some of the worst case scenarios and best case scenarios you've seen in student borrowing and preparing for loan repayment? Sure, let's start with the worst case scenario. A lot of folks might think that that's someone who's borrowed an extremely high amount of debt, but that's not always the case. The worst case scenario is really someone who's just not paid attention to their borrowing. They don't know what they have in their student loan portfolio. They don't know the interest rates, the terms and conditions. And in all likelihood, they may have borrowed more than they really needed, but the reality is the worst case scenario is the borrower who graduates enters repayment about six months after they graduate from dental school and they really didn't pay the attention and they don't know exactly how to go about repayment. It's not always the borrower in the worst case scenario who has the highest amount of debt. The flip side of that, to me, the person who's got the best situation or the best advantage, if you will, coming out of dental school, best case scenario is not necessarily the person with the lowest amount of debt, but it's the person who paid attention during dental school. They did have to borrow, but Dr. Booker, they didn't borrow more than they needed. They used all the free resources available from ADIA to help them with repayment. They paid close attention with the relationship with their financial aid professional at their school. They paid attention at their senior loan exit interview and when they entered repayment six months after, whether they were doing an advanced dental education program or going straight into practice, they already had a solid understanding of what their repayment options were. And as we've taught before, their debt didn't control them. They ended up controlling their debt because they paid attention to what they were doing all through dental school. Great, thank you so much for your insight. Karen Gilliam, Associate Director of Financial Aid, Virginia Commonwealth University School of Dentistry in the state of Virginia. Karen, thank you so much for being with us today. We're excited to hear what you have to share with students and prospective students about financial aid. You have a wealth of experience that I think will bring some great insights and information and knowledge to those who are listening. So let's begin with some questions for you. I'm going to begin with things that tend to resonate a lot with students and with financial aid professionals in particular, such as are there questions that serve as triggers that alert you about the concerns someone may have over borrowing for dental school? The first question would be, how much do other students borrow? And the second question, how long does it take dental students to repay dental school debt? And these questions allow me to introduce and explain the cost of attendance and how this cost of attendance can be used to determine how much a student borrowed. Additionally, it helps me to help the student create a budget or a spending plan. It also opens the door for me to help students to identify what is a need, what is an educationally related expense versus what is a want. And then finally, it also helps me to introduce to students various loan types, the terms of loans and which loan product will work best for students if they have to borrow student loans. Great, that's really good because we know those kinds of things tend to arise a lot with students when they're trying to make decisions about borrowing. As a part of that though, how do you help maintain transparency regarding the possible debt students are going to incur while also being supportive of their ability to borrow responsibly and to repay responsibly? I maintain transparency regarding the possible debt that students may incur while being supportive of their ability to borrow responsibly and pay responsibly by providing a cost of education upfront for the four year period of dental school. Students receive the total cost of dental school, not just the first year of dental school with them coming in. So I explained that the budget can potentially change yearly based on tuition and fee increases. Additionally, I explained the direct costs. What is a direct cost versus an indirect cost? Your direct cost is your tuition and fees. Your indirect costs will be all other budget items. This is how students can control how much they may need to borrow. The cost of borrowing loans, what are the interest rates, the origination fees, the disbursement amount and how students can return any unused funds that may not be needed during the school year. Great, things people need to know how much you borrowed and how to return money which we often don't talk about with students. Thank you for that great insight. Additionally, how do you get incoming students? You know, they're new, they're excited, they're glad to be in dental school. And it's important to get them to understand and pay attention to what they're borrowing, especially when they were not likely into repayment for more than four years. How do you get them to say, hey, this is where you are, this is what you need to think about? I try to get incoming students to pay attention to their borrowing, especially since they're not going to enter repayment for the next four years by providing workshops during the year, providing various topics throughout the years. We do have a series called Dollars and Cents. Many topics are on financing, managing money. We have guest speakers that come in, introducing students to the D-LOC, the Dental Loan Organizer and Calculator and how to check NSLDS, the National Student Loan Database Service, which is at their fingertips seven days a week, 24 hours a day. So there's a three-prong method that is used to make sure that students receive information throughout the school year, whether it's a webinar, it could be an email with information or walking into my office. I do have an open-door policy. Wonderful. So with all of that, you touched upon it a little bit and let's explore further. What is your process for then assuring students are aware of their total debt as they progress through dental school and how does interest and exit counseling play into this process? To ensure that students are aware of their student loan debt while they are progressing through dental school, I provide various opportunities of financial aid information to students. Interest and exit counseling plays a big role in this process. Interest counseling is required for all students borrowing federal student aid and students are required to do this prior to receiving any type of federal student loan funding. During the school year cycle, I encourage students to again, check the National Student Loan Database Service, NSLDS, log on to their lender website and view the dental loan organizer and calculator. The exit counseling is required for all students as a part of the checkout process prior to graduation. At this time, I recap the students total debt. There's multiple options that are available for repayment. We go over these, the public service loan forgiveness. We also discuss the federal or state loan forgiveness programs as well. Great. Let's transition just a little bit and for my last question for you is prospective students. There's trying to learn so much information and gather so much about going into dental school and the debt and what they're going to borrow. How do you help them to be comfortable with this and convey a culture of care and support to assure that they can have confidence in the investments that they are making? We convey a culture of care and support to assure students that they can have the confidence in the investment that they're making. Simply by, I have an open door policy. Students can email or make a phone call all in which information will be returned in a timely manner by keeping constant communication throughout the year, through emails, through seminars, through notices to students. Answering all questions promptly. We want students to feel that when they ask the question that their questions will be answered. Also providing a means for assistance for issues that may arise while they're in dental school. We want to show students that they can be assured that any information that they're requesting will be answered while they're in the program or for a spending plan, formally known as a budget plan to help students budget throughout the year. The greatest concern is that students understand that no question is too small, no question is too big. Financial aid professionals nationwide, we are all committed to working with students to ensure that you receive the same information about financing your student loan educational career. We meet several times during the year and we again, want to make sure that students feel comfortable, that we are also invested in making sure that they receive the level of information needed to finance their dental career. Wow, that is awesome. It is very comforting to know that our financial aid representatives are so committed to our students and ensuring that they're able to get what they need to pay for dental school. Thank you so much and appreciate your contribution. Thank you. Good morning, my name is Gartner Key and I am the director of financial aid at the Harvard School of Dental Medicine. Gartner, thank you for being with us today on this wonderful webinar. Happy few questions for you. As you interact with students, could you tell us what is the number one question you generally get from first year students when they first contact your office or during orientation? Once we sort of skip over just what are the mechanics of applying for financial aid, et cetera, the most popular question by far is where can I find scholarship money to go to dental school? And the answer to that question is, it is difficult. The vast majority of scholarship money available for dental students is gonna have strings attached. Things like the National Health Service Corps Scholarship which is a fantastic scholarship but does require that you do a service payback as well as the military's health profession scholarship programs, which again are fantastic financial aid programs but do require you to do a service payback. So the vast majority of scholarship money for dental school is gonna be of that variety where it is gonna have strings attached. It's gonna expect service repayment or something like that. And that there just is not a lot of scholarship opportunity out there for dental students. Understandable. Those can be a little bit of challenging at times. So following along with that, what for you has been the most difficult challenge you face in getting information about Pan for Dental School and to prospective and incoming students? It's always something they want to know. So how do you get that information of what has been challenging about getting that information to them? I think the most difficult challenge we in the financial aid community, I was speaking for all of us I suppose is cutting through the noise, right? Like making students understand that if you're gonna go to dental school in all likelihood you are going to have to borrow money and this is not a bad thing. I think students are getting a lot of information from external sources about how debt is bad and borrowing money is bad and you shouldn't borrow money, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And so cutting through that noise and getting them the message that this is actually a situation where you're making an investment and responsible borrowing in this particular situation is actually a good thing and is going to benefit you down the road. Now, what do I mean when I say responsible borrowing? Well, what I consider to be responsible borrowing is informed borrowing. So you've done your homework, you've examined all the different loan options out there. You understand the various outcomes that come from various different borrowing strategies. So you understand how the borrowing is gonna work and how that's gonna impact you down the road. So if you've done your homework, you understand what you're doing, you understand the outcomes of the choices you're making. In my opinion, that is responsible borrowing. Great, thank you. That's such an important concept that many times we just, we say it but we don't always explain it. Agreed. Okay, so in speaking with prospective students, how do you convey to them a culture of care and support to assure them that they can have confidence in that this is an investment and that they are making a good investment? I take a two pronged approach. So the first prong is acknowledging that this is kind of a scary decision. Like you are going to borrow a lot of money in all likelihood to go to dental school. I mean, for some students, they're borrowing more money than their parents' houses were and that can be frightening. And so I think it's important to acknowledge that upfront to make the students understand that I understand that this is a frightening, it can be an intimidating decision to make. And then the second prong is to then reduce that intimidation. So to talk the students through, okay, this is what borrowing looks like. This might be the amount you have to borrow. This is what your repayment strategies are gonna look like. So while I'd like to use, and in any presentation I do to students about borrowing, I like to use examples of what repayment would potentially look like. So here's a debt level, here's a projected income level, here's what under, I usually like to pick what I consider to be the three basic strategies to learn repayment. So if you wanna pursue an aggressive strategy, this is what it would look like. If you wanna pursue a conservative strategy, this is what it would look like. If you wanna pursue an income-driven strategy, this is what it would look like and walk them through what those different repayment amounts would be under the more common debt levels that I see. But then take that even a step further and say, okay, so here's what your projected income is gonna look like. If you're putting 10% away for retirement, here's what your take-home pay is gonna look like after taxes, here's what that translates into in terms of a monthly income. Here's what your monthly income is gonna look like after you make your loan payment based on the repayment strategy that you're looking at. I mean, I like to take it a step further too and show, so if you're living in Boston, here's what your rent will probably look like, here's what your utilities are probably gonna look like, here's what your food budget should be, all of that, so just to walk them through, put loan repayment in context, walk them through what it actually looks like. And while this is obviously a pretty intensive strategy and does require a fair amount of work, I think the result is worth it because now the student has some confidence that, yes, they're making a decision which on its surface seems kind of scary, but now they understand that it's maybe not as scary as they initially realized. So for me, it's always about education. Everything is the more information I can provide students and the more context I can provide for that information, the better the results are. Great, thank you. You're right, that's an intensive, but you get the information across and it definitely will help students to have a more realistic picture. So I am going to give you just a scenario here that let's think about you have been invited to speak at a graduation ceremony and you are asked to address how upcoming graduates can best prepare for a career in health sciences, looking at it from the financial perspective. So what would you tell them? So if I'm speaking to people getting ready to go to dental school, it's, for me, it's all about education. Go out and get informed, understand that you are going to have to borrow, right? And the vast majority of dental students have to borrow and so educate yourself about the borrowing options. So maybe go out and learn what loan options there are learn about private loans, learn about federal loans and just spend as much time as you can educating yourself about the different loan options. And I think that's going to prepare you for making the decisions that you're ultimately going to have to make. So it's always about education for me first, like go out and learn about what the different options are. If I'm talking to high school students who are thinking then about going on to do a pre-health or whatever in college and then go on to think about then going on to dental school. I mean, I think the message is kind of the same but it's a little bit, I would say it's a little bit, from a broader approach. So instead of talking specifically about, here's the different type of loans you can take advantage of, because they may not be, that's not necessarily a conversation we might need to have at that moment. It becomes a broader sense of from a financial perspective of get used to thinking about like start tracking your expenses while you're in college. That's going to give you sort of a sense of what it takes to feed yourself and house yourself and blow yourself and all that. So start thinking about those things early and then once you get sort of a solid foundation of this is what life costs, now you're in a better position to then, once you're getting ready to go to dental school to start thinking about those specific loans. So I think for the high school students, it's a broader message. Appreciate your contribution, thanks so much. It's my pleasure, thank you. Thank you for being with us for this great webinar and all this great information. As you heard from our panelists, there are many aspects to managing debt while in dental school. Some takeaways to share. Responsible borrowing is key to managing debt. Financial aid offices within our dental schools work hard to create a culture and climate to enable students to understand what they are borrowing and the various options for repayment. And finally, a dental education is an investment in your future and your future finances. Thank you for being with us today and have a great day.