 All right. Cool. Let's go ahead and start this. This is I think it's call number five already This is awesome. So, you know, welcome to the call for a better building businesses with elements or what we're doing is every single week We have a group call these calls are kind of like like a meetup like a wordpress meetup It's a place to come to where we talk and we dig deep into a topic and then we open it up So, you know, everyone has a chance to To talk to ask questions also to just discuss what's going on right now. So the business It's just a good place for everyone to come to That's basically on the same path of building their business with elements or and today Lauren She's going to be running the group and we're going to be continuing on the topic of how to find clients And she's going to give us 15 ways to find new clients, which I'm really excited to hear So I'm just going to go ahead and turn it over to Lauren Thanks, Jeff And and thank everybody. Thank you everybody for his shown up today I just apologize in advance for background noise cat noise dog noise strange ice cream truck noises I'm in Indonesia and my Electricity at the office went out. So I had to rush back home for this call So I apologize for for that now. Let me get share So you can see my keynote. All right, can you see that full screen? Is that correct? Can you confirm Jeff? Yeah, yeah, we can see okay perfect Just want to make sure Jeff and I were talking because we were listening to kind of some of the questions and responses in the group of how Some people were struggling with finding new clients and so I know Jeff shared a little bit last week I'm kind of how to get started with finding new clients and I wanted to share some of my ideas my ways on how we find clients and Just as a little bit of background. I've been doing web design development specifically WordPress for 12 13 years now and To be completely honest, most of my clients are through referrals. So Hold on here. There we go. Just take a note that I'm still learning a lot and experimenting and everything I say today may work for you. It may not work for you. You just kind of take it with a grain of salt where You know, it's just an idea and you can tweak it or evolve it or learn from it as needed so The first thing I want to get across is that finding clients is really just marketing. It's marketing yourself You're you're presenting yourself as a service and you're presenting yourself as an expert that someone can trust because they're investing their money into you and There's a lot of competition as we all know so You know finding clients is is one way but really it's the big picture is marketing yourself and Jeff and I could probably talk about that later where there's like short-term marketing like short-range marketing and the long game where You know, there's things you can do right now. There's things that you build yourself as a brand Where maybe six twelve eighteen months down the road. You have a better foundation but really you as your own solopreneur or as a leader of an agency Your main job is to find clients and to to market yourself This is not part of my 15 tips, but this is tip number one is Read read books I've read two of these books so far one without pitching manifesto and the one-page marketing plan and I do highly recommend them It's just it's a great way to learn from someone who's already an expert who already has years and years of experience and has polished their own process So number one is read and keep learning and then number two I would say is keep learning from other people who've been through this process before like this group where Where you know, we have some people who are senior in here where we can help the newer people I highly recommend the future Without an E at the end. They have a lot of free videos on YouTube that are just really powerful And these were some that I enjoyed That helped me kind of create a good plan So The very first exercise that I did with the future was Creating your list of dream clients and this was something I had not considered before of just kind of like who are the people that I actually Would be really excited to work with and this is the big clients like Nike McDonald's Patagonia, you know those those big ones, but also the medium and the small ones and When you create this list what I noticed like I kind of geeked out a little bit I think we hit like a hundred fifty two hundred because when I started creating this list it put me down rabbit hole of oh Here's a list of small clients that I would be interested in working with and they actually need my services And it kind of starts to point you in the right direction of People you can talk to you pretty quickly So, you know, it takes Anywhere from one to four hours. It's I it's very worth it. It's highly recommended So I know you're probably excited to hear those 15 ideas because we all like little buzzfeed Countdown lists So I'm just going to jump straight into it of my 15 ideas that can help you find clients An idea number one is probably one that you would not consider But it's something that I've learned the hard way and it's something that I've noticed when people try to sell to me And that's don't be desperate people can smell when you're hungry they can tell when you're just after them for their money and You know, it's not I I've been there before and I understand that the fear is real that that we all need to eat and we need to pay people and we need to pay ourselves but You know the clients they want to work with someone who's confident who's not Living out of fear. They want to work with people that are Looking forward to the future. So just it's it's hard. It's scary. I get that and we can talk more about that of how to be confident, but it's really kind of that scarcity scarcity-based mindset versus abundance-based where not getting too stuck on the scarcity not getting too stuck on That fear of not having and focusing on on the positive and that will kind of help you not to go into desperation The number two one and Jeff and I have talked a lot about this together is niching We've mentioned before that there, you know, you can't really niche too far and that no one's really failed from niching So there's the saying the jack-of-all-trades master of none This is against that this is becoming an expert in one thing or you know a specialist maybe in in one Category and there's a lot of different ways you can niche you can niche in terms of your price and your quality if you want to be the Lexus in the BMWs of the world or if you want to be more of the Toyota more accessible You can also niche according to industry This would be like cafes, you know beauty and fashion event planning Sports and outdoors, you know, whatever is your passion is a really great way to niche down because then each client that you work with is Is more exciting to you because that's that's the thing that fuels you Another way you can each is your geography if you want to be the best in your city or the cheapest in your community or you know the go-to guy for everything in your region then That's the way that you can focus The reason why niching is good is that it helps you define your own marketing plan And I've heard it said and I I believe it for myself that the world doesn't need another Generalist web designer or another generalist web developer There's just so many out there and it's really hard to compete based on I do everything for everyone everywhere if You can niche down and pick a geography location pick a price point pick a industry Then it actually gives you a place of okay, who are the clients that I'm looking for how can I get in front of them better? And how can I actually start to offer them value and insights and answers that makes their life better and helps them to trust me more An example of this is at Bray Factor We works primarily with nonprofits and social enterprises and that's that's kind of what fuels us through our day and when I started this exercise I Went up when we picked that niche it really started opening up a lot of questions. So it's like okay. I want this client Who are they? Where are they? You know what what books are they reading? What forums are they going to when they have a question? Who do they turn to do they you know? Are they on Cura or Cura? I don't know how to say it. Are they on Yahoo Answers? Are they on Reddit? What Facebook Facebook groups are they in what Instagram accounts do they follow and kind of like even why do they follow that? What are they trying to get out of that content? Why are they consuming that content? and really what questions do they have and when I started searching the Questions do they have that put me down a whole rabbit hole That basically just gave me blog posts that wrote themselves Because you start getting into like how can I fundraise how can I fundraise for a certain event? How can I fundraise for blah blah blah and it just really like Filled in the blog post ideas which in terms fills in social media fills in email content It really helps to market yourself easier when you niche down It also helps in kind of stalking your competition So I I do feel like as an agency owner that everyone should know solopreneur freelancer or not that You should know who your competition is you should know if your competition is wicks then then you know How can you position yourself better than wicks if your competition is another boutique agency? How are they marketing themselves and so an example of this is what we did was when we niche down We looked at our geography and we looked at our our local agencies around us Google them and just added ourselves everywhere. They were we went to their lists. We went to their you know, if they're on dribble We're on dribble if they're on They hands were on bands. They're on some random tiny Indonesian blog posts. We're contacting the Indonesian blog posts. We want to show up and be as present as our competition and Then also just if they are advertising a certain way like how are they connecting to your target audience and how can you Learn from them and create your own plan So that's number two number three is to communicate well and this one's really basic, but it's it's really important Just answer emails quickly and and with respect and excitement and You know really marketing and finding clients just boils down to relationship building and you'll see that throughout the rest of these tips where What you're trying to do is Be accessible be available and let the client know that you're there for them Now I work in Indonesia and I understand completely the struggle of not being fluent in another language There are tools I recommend Hemingway app or Grammar Lee, you know Just install them and they can help help you format English a little bit better if that's your struggle or you know if you need help with a Certain response for a client or you know even a templated response you can ask your friends or ask the group like our elementary group The point is that we all have a great community and we can all help each other and The the last one is create a template of responses. And this is something I just started doing where You know just get that automation down Whatever email you're sending a hundred times a week or even ten times a week Just write it once and then copy and paste it and this will help make sure that your grammar and your Spelling is always good as well. If you are able to reuse content number four seems very basic as well but it's something that I've noticed that is not as A parent a parent has the right word. It's not it's not done as much as it should be and that's make a portfolio if you are advertising yourself as an elementary developer you need to have an elementary site built because As someone that's hiring you I want to see your work and I want to check and see what you can do You know so so we talked about this a little bit a couple calls ago about you know showing off your clients showing off your best skills If you don't have good clients that you like yet Just show your concept work the whole idea is to see your skills and to see your capabilities and Most importantly to see your thought process. So there's a lot of resources out there specifically with the future on how to create good case studies and you know a case study is just kind of like This was the problem This was our thought process. These were our insights and this is how we solved it As a client and more importantly These are our results, you know, we helped them get ten percent better click rate or you know increase their Target audience size from this to this Because beautiful work is important, but what's more important is that you're actually solving people's problems So show people that bring them in on your process and help them to understand how you work And then the last one I feel like I shouldn't have to say but it is true It's just had your link everywhere get it on your LinkedIn, especially I've seen a lot of people applying to try to work with me or to have me hire them And they don't have they don't have their portfolio linked And so it's like I'm not gonna try to dig through Google to figure out your work Make it easy for me as a as an employer Putting your Instagram putting your email and you know, just get creative with it and be consistent with that Number five is to get social. This is getting on Facebook Instagram dribble. They had spread it And really the key here is just be a real person You know, thank people engage with people comment with real comments Especially on Instagram you can if you've seen some Business or brand Comment feeds you see when people are not listening. It's like, hey, follow me a blah blah blah or hey if you want quick cash or you know, that's it's all bots and People are exhausted of that. Well, if you want to be a real brand and you want to be a real person connecting with real people, you know Then then genuinely take the time I saw one interview with Gary Vee and he was saying the reason why he is where he is today I'll post it in the group if I can find it again The reason why he is where he is today is because like the first year is he just spent whole eight-hour days on Instagram Commenting with people having real discussions with people and then they would get curious and check them out and start to follow him He says a lot of people don't realize that they just see his instant success But he says he was grinding through getting social up on Facebook and Instagram So if he can do it we can And he's a good, you know, a very successful role model that we can live up to Obviously have a good professional photo of yourself, especially again on LinkedIn and this includes having a solid background Or you know a very minimal background and smiling face kind of not at a weird angle Super basic, but the professional photo really helps and then also if if like you're applying to Work with me be careful about what you what clients see Because I'll dig through your Facebook. I'll dig through your Instagram. I'll take a look at your life and Especially with like trying to hire people full-time If there's things you don't want people to see, you know, try to try to keep your personal life private Because business is not the same as social All right, so the next one I I pulled LinkedIn out separately from that one And that's because I feel personally that LinkedIn is very abused and you can see over on the side This is just from the past two or three months of requests that I have gotten I Connected with someone and they immediately sent me this request. I don't know who these people are. I don't trust them I didn't know them 30 seconds ago before we connected and I certainly am not going to invest a lot of money in someone That I have no relationship with My I'm still learning how to connect on LinkedIn, but Just please please please do not sell on your first LinkedIn message Again it all just comes back to trust and There's a really really Interesting visual from the one page marketing plan that has helped it wasn't an aha moment for me It helped me a lot where you have at the bottom here in the red Where it says lead and that's when you have a lead like connecting with someone on LinkedIn and Contact number one through contact number 12 basically just means every time you get in contact with them every email phone call meeting Every interaction with them is a contact point So contact number one. I'm not sure if you can see it's very small 50% of sales people give up and this is True with everybody all of these people on LinkedIn. They never messaged me back And so I know they're just after my money. They're not interested in me or in my business. They're they're not interested in in What how they can help me succeed? They just want to help me help sell for themselves So contact number two the second time they make contact 65% of sales people have given up by contact number five 90% of the sales people have given up and you have become a factor in your lead's mind by six you're nurturing that lead slowly and By about contact number nine you have a 90% chance of being called on Because you have built that relationship and I've reviewed this with My business partner Chris and he had a lot of questions about this like well How the heck am I supposed to do nine contacts with somebody and I thought it was a really easy Answers to be honest because it's like it's just about developing that relationship We landed a client it's one of my dream clients actually we landed a client and Contact one and two were those first emails and phone call and then they decided not to go with us They decided to go with the cheaper guy. So we said yeah sure fine and We created a product. We sent that product out to them. We created a newsletter list We asked them if they can join the list and they said yes, we sent them a Merry Christmas No, we sent them a happy New Year note You know even with Corona we're checking in on our some of our potential leads with Corona Hey, you know, this is getting crazy. How are things going over there? It's just relationship building and it's it's showing that the client Showing to the client that you care and that you're not necessarily after their money you're just making sure they're good and making sure that Their business is doing the way they they wanted to Especially if you don't get a client if they do decide to go somewhere else Then you check in again two three months later. Hey, I know you picked that other guy How's that going and we've done that and and the client that I mentioned my dream client But I mentioned we did that and now we're working with them and I can say it was about contact number nine or ten when They gave us our 50% deposit and we started the website with them So it takes time it's it's not a quick process And you just have to be patient with yourself and patient with the client And if you're genuinely interested and if they have, you know, the money to spend on you then it's worth it because you're creating a real relationship with them and From that even if they don't hire you But you've contacted them ten times they might have a referral for you Which I believe goes into the next one and that's to ask for referrals And this was a mistake that I did for a long time where I was just hoping for a new client hoping people would Suddenly think oh, yeah, you know, you should contact us Warren Make it easy for your client due to thinking for them. So if you're working with realtors, and that's your niche Ask your realtor friends. Hey, if you know any home builders or realtors that need a portfolio website to show off their projects They can contact me. You can see that you've already done that thought process for them. Oh portfolio. Got it Oh for their new properties. Okay. Yeah, I know exactly three people that come to mind. I'll tell them to contact you Yeah, which goes in the next one don't be vague, you know Make it easy and if you don't have clients and that's kind of what Jeff is talking about on the previous phone calls talk to your friends you know get that experience out get your word of mouth out and He Works with friends correct me later Jeff. I think you work with friends. I don't really work with friends It can get a little bit messy and sometimes the relationship can get damaged Depending on how it's managed. So That's up to you. Um, I mean I work with my brother and my brother is part of my company So they say don't work with friends and family. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't All right number eight is offer commissions and I read I tried to google it and I couldn't find it But I think it was Forbes. I read one article of a guy in New Jersey, I think he has a web agency And his only marketing plan is commissions He just empowers a bunch of different people. Hey, if you bring me a website I give you 10 commission And he makes triple figures. I think it's like 500,000 a year Five to 15% is normal. Um, I have gone as high as 20% personally, but that's because the relationship was much stronger Um, but typically it's it's about 10 to 15% And the whole idea is just you know 10% doesn't hurt you too much Just include 10% higher in the budget and then you can kind of reward the people that are connecting you Number nine and this one's a little bit iffy with corona going on, but number nine is good um And that's the network and to go to events Go to workshops go to conferences Offer to teach offer to speak the idea is You're easier to remember when you're a face and when you meet face to face you create that relationship so much stronger So it's really really good to get outside of your network and to go to places where your clients will be If you want to work with startups go to startup incubators, you know, like Do your research And figure out the meetups where where you want to be if you want to go to yogas go go sign up to all those yoga workshops and yogas yogis Sign up for all those yoga workshops All right number 10, um, which I think maybe Jeff could share more on this one later because this is not really something that I do so I don't have very much experience with it But you can always try to reach out to agencies that might need help um, just do a search of people working in your niche or in your area and Go meet them and you know Be unique send them a letter pick up the phone go out and actually meet them face to face Invite them out to coffee, you know, just being friendly and just doing doing um Personable things really stands out nowadays and I wrote in here email is lost and lazy and that's true Especially it's it's forgotten easily and you just Click send and you don't worry about it again where actual tangible things and meeting people face to face is very valuable Number 11 is kind of similar and that's fine complimentary partners um If you do primarily web development then find people who do design copywriting videography Make friends with them and work on projects together or set up a commission-based relationship where if a printer, you know Needs websites done then then maybe you can give them a little bit of a cut and that basically just just Reach out and make as many partnerships as you can that you feel good about Number 12 is something that we're just starting to do um, and it's a lot of work, but this is a long term Marketing strategy and that's to create content and to create value for your target audience It's medium it's writing articles. It's creating youtube videos. It's being part of facebook groups. It's creating carousels on instagram articles in linkedin You know dribble getting about miss bill dribble triple bees even on Now if your clients are not on tiktok don't go on tiktok, but I have seen or heard of because I'm not on tiktok. I have heard of Business mentors being on tiktok and doing very quick little business mentorship Snippets and they are taking off So, you know if you want to sell education and that's the market that you want to go down Do it they're just Your marketing plan can be as creative as you are Number 13 is to try platforms I've never had success with this, but I have heard of developers who have and that's the freelancer the upwork the fiber of the world But my recommendation for this is don't just depend completely on putting yourself on upwork and fiber and calling it good Marketing and getting clients takes that knocking on doors Going out and meeting people going out and creating those relationships Sitting around and waiting for people to find you is much much more difficult and much more hopeful Oh shoot, I forgot the quote Uh, oh the I heard one quote was um getting lucky through referrals and people finding you is not a marketing plan It's just kind of reactive To the things happening around you. It's good getting referrals is great, but it's not necessarily a marketing plan um, so Yeah, put yourself on it You know advertise yourself, but always try other things too number 14 is just Be unique find different ways to make yourself stand out And this is something that we try to do with our clients and it surprises them and they they love it HubSpot calls it delight where what you're offering to your clients is delight and that's what makes you stand out from your competitors So we do things like thank you cards at the end of a project You know for new years we send gifts to people and this is usually like some branded stuff some notebooks Maybe a little toy or something Really whatever you can think of be unique and I had a friend who would even He was trying to get really really big projects in When he sent he would print out his proposals He'd send his proposals with like a little notebook and pen so they can take notes Things like that, you know, it's like that's memorable and that's unique and nobody else is doing that for sure so You know if you really start to figure out your dream clients and you want to go after them Figure out ways to connect better with them And number 15 is be consistent. It's kind of like that One page marketing plan book where it takes 10 Contacts with a person To get the lead to get the get the project So, you know, I know it's difficult. I know it's a lot of work and I know it can get very discouraging We did a marketing We did some marketing efforts six months ago and we're just starting to see some results from it And it just it takes time and that's okay and just keep being consistent. Whatever you feel comfortable doing just keep doing that And yeah, actually that's that's kind of the end of my slides So I will stop sharing here and we can kind of just open it up for discussion If anybody has any questions or ideas or things that have worked for you That you would love to share add to the list or if there's things that haven't worked for you We can talk through why that is and what we could do differently so, yeah For as everybody's Cool. Thanks Lauren. That was awesome I got quite a bit on that one full page Trying to be more eco-conscious right now Well, I'll let someone go ahead and start off with some questions. I know I got quite a few things in here Got a lot of notes Okay, can I ask some question? Can you can you hear me? Yeah, absolutely. What's happening? so like one of your Uh suggestion was find an agency that might need a help like And you have an agency and Jeffrey has an agency, right? And then like I also was thinking about if I can have an agency that Which goes to me that like kind of like regular job not too much work but just like maybe two three hours to Practice some work like like Like complete the jobs like to practice my skill and then my also the half of time is I just like do my own client to make more money would be actually for me the ideal case because I'm a still Beginner of the wordpress. I'm learning a lot so when you find those people who you want to work with as a agency owner agency CEO What do you what kind of aspect do you usually consider to Like to see that people through the yeah To work with them. Yeah, or where do you find usually or what do you what do you think that the most important thing for you? That's a great person That's a great question. Um I gotta think back on the developer how I found him. Hold on I know for designers. I will speak for designers first That one I have to see a portfolio or I have to see dribble or bayhance What I look for in a designer is Unique patterns, so if it looks too repetitive, I know it's kind of copy and paste And I I think Jeff probably could speak more towards the technical side of things I look for in a web designer Um, I look at to see how strong The Really really picky like padding if padding is consistent, especially in a button Button it's not completely centered if things are not centered. It's just like really basic kind of design Knowledge that I view as being important. So if I see the things and they look really good And the page looks very like structurally sound That's number one for me. Then I'll test the page to see if it's responsive How it reacts and then I'll put the page into like pingdom or gtmetrics and see A little bit more the tech side now. I don't really Workpress is so like you're not coding through scratch. So it's compare that But if it looks structurally sound, that's what I look for in Designer or developer and where How do you how do you find them? Like where do you meet them? Sorry though? No, no, no, no, that's okay. It's a lot. Um, how do I find them? I found my first developer in linkedin I was searching Workpress developer in folly And I would go through Their portfolio through linkedin. He was good. I contacted him directly If someone else contacts me again, it just goes back to looking at the portfolio We've started to do some like simple development tests or we test, you know, like do a very small project to test Because what's important to me as an designer and making sure that the design matches with the development and make sure that it's responsive and fast and clean Jeff, I hope that helps a little bit Well, first I like to look at the work, you know I need to like make sure the skill level is there And a lot of those things I look at too like I could tell you right now One of the things that will make me turn away From someone's work or the obvious errors in the work if I take a look at someone's website And I usually look at it on my phone first If I take a look at it and like there's just an obvious error like Text is all aligned to the left and over here at center and and the menu was over here Just stuff that just really stands out that I see right away. That tells me that there's no, uh, attention to detail So it's really important to have attention to detail whether they're a designer or developer Because the developer needs to follow the design like that. That's crucial right there that they could follow the design to detail Second one if the quality is there. I see there's good work and it doesn't have to be perfect To me like first the skill level has to be there But the second one is about attitude When I actually talk to the person like I got to see if there's communication and if if they're open-minded if they're like, uh, Teachable to me being teachable is huge because When I work with someone I don't want to just work someone for one quick job I want to build an ongoing relationship with No, for me, it's an investment my time Sharing my experience sitting down I'm investing in that person and I really want to Build something with them and it's one of the reasons why I be you know When the agency route is because I wanted to work with others, you know, give more opportunities and things like that So I think those are like the two biggest things I look at You know first one skill level has to be their attention to detail Not perfect. Just being able to like show attention to detail Is attitude being teachable And I'll add to that too with the soft skills where it's um Asking questions especially early on asking good questions where um And that's what I try to do with my clients too. We try to have like an honesty policy like hey I just I'm a bit confused with what you're saying. I don't understand can we like reframe this and and can I ask you some stupid questions and um The clients always appreciate it when I do that because it kind of like opens up the door for like And that's that's something that I struggled with with some of my designers and developers that I worked with in the past was they wouldn't They would just assume and they wouldn't ask questions. Maybe because they were and so Then they would give me the work and I'm like, this is not Like why did you do it? Yeah Why did you like those? Oh, I should have asked you that. Yeah. Yeah, you should have um And then I will say too uh for applying with This is just a general note that I I thought of while we were chatting. Sorry. There's a lot of children outside I don't have any children, but they're all in my front yard. Um Regardless if you're a designer or a developer have a solid resume have a solid cb and totally cheat there's canva you just go in there and plug in your information like Like if you're giving me a word document You know, I barely let developers get away with that, but if a designer gives me a word document, it's just like Yeah Yeah, I know what to mean. Yeah, yeah and um You got to make that first impression really good on the pick go You see And jeffrey we're so where do you find those people? We're your workers Where I find them, uh It's hard it's hard It is actually hard You know to like to find Find a developer to work with and that just shows right there that there's so much opportunity out there and to like really look at what is What are agencies looking for like? What to look at is what are What are agencies? What are the problems and the difficulties and challenges and how can you offer a solution to those challenges? um One of them, you know being consistency one of them, you know not having a portfolio, you know So, you know, if you're looking for one, that's when you like, you know, really go out put time into building your portfolio Put time into building be hands I can tell you I'm really like blown away when I see a really good be hands when I see Facebook is all clean when I just see Lot of work is being put in. I know it's somebody serious And I mean I've I've had uh people I've worked with I've I've hired off of Upwork um My experience with hiring off of Upwork has been I lost a lot of money Yeah, because I've had to redo a lot of work myself Yeah, uh, but when I do find that one good person or team I stick And I think most of my developers come through word of mouth So I'll have a developer friend and he has friends or he has a community that he Oh Lauren, I've worked with this person or you know, we were sitting in a workshop together and I know this person but even then you know, like I don't even know the percentage of how many developers we still work with because it's low It's it gets down to those basic things of Are you hitting the deadlines even if you don't hit the deadlines? Yeah, that you're gonna miss this like let me know beforehand so I communicate to the client. Yeah. Yeah Um, let me know where the problems are and if you have questions that there's just like so many little basic things that Even even right now like we're trying to interview people they miss their interviews. No one shows up They don't email me back they take a week to email me back. I'm I'm already over it by then like I want to see that you're hungry and that you're you're open and eager and You're willing to work hard I think Yeah, I see Thanks for answering both of you guys as a owner of the agencies Still lots of opportunity out there. There's so much opportunity In this field one of the reasons why I got into web development originally It was about four or five years ago when I started I chose it because I saw the statistics I mean the number said there was like at that time 55 of the jobs in the entire industry were not filled yet and they did not have enough people to meet the demand I see and honestly Yeah, and it makes my job easier and probably Jeff's job easier too because there are um, so many inefficient ineffective Incompetent developers where clients come frustrated like my developer doesn't contact like I contact them They don't get back to me. It makes it really easy to do well at this job Treat them well and communicate well and treat them with respect So real quick I want I want to bring up something that that I actually just go into something you brought up Lauren and it was one of uh your methods on One of your techniques on finding new clients and one was to work with other agencies Whether it's white labeling or just reaching out to work with other agencies And I have to let you guys know right now that that uh, I'm currently working on marketing plans and You know part of my plans is working and finding our own clients But another part is also doing some white labeling and looking for bigger agencies Because there's a lot of opportunity out there Uh, I get I get messages like lauren does all the time in my linkedin and in my email and through my contact forms through my website I do not pay attention to those uh It's building that connection and talking to people and I really think that that is going to be the key right there to get and this is part of my my uh my my strategy as well because I don't want to be that and that that's always been like my my thing that's holding me back is You know, I don't want to be Just sending out mass messages copy and paste and be looked at that and I don't want my brand To look like that, you know, I had the opportunity not to not too long back I met with linkedin marketer And you know, I really considered it because I knew he could bring me in a lot of business I knew it. He had the numbers to back it up I would pay him a thousand dollars a month and he would bring me in lots of leads but At the cost of him sending out 20 000 messages a month And like I like something's sat wrong with it because I want my brand to be unique I want us to stand out. I want us to be that kind of brand that really cares for people So what I'm finding is working is building connections talking and just like reaching out, you know When you see like just just start sparking up conversations use posting stuff Just start commenting on there and then send messages like hey, I really like the content You know, you're putting out there good stuff, you know, keep it up I really look forward to reading more of it and just keep talking and interacting with them And soon they're going to start interacting with you and that's when you start to like just have a call Right now. I'm doing something where I was given a I was given a task Like right now. I'm also working with the business coach and he's helping me out with a lot of stuff And he gave me a task for this month was just to reach out to 20 people Not talk about working with them, but just to learn about them That's it Just just to get used to just talking with people and like getting to understand them and learn about them So I really think if you're looking to like white label or to work with other agencies That that approach is the way to go right there because that's what will make me Start to have The that's what would make you stand out to me is if you contact me and just start saying hey I got articles though. I really liked it. I'm like, cool. Thanks You know and all of a sudden now we're talking and now I get to know you and now if we're thinking about working together I know what you could do. We got opportunity to go up Now we're looking at I would I would choose to work with somebody who's doing that Over a cold email or just going on up work and trying to hire someone and rolling the dice um The future group jeff actually did that where they were doing a marble challenge. I think it was 10 marbles per week. So every new contact you Contact you move your marble into another from one jar to another jar So it was like you have to move all your 10 marbles over Every week and it was like a little challenge to really force yourself to prioritize Contacting those new clients and getting outside of your comfort zone But doing it in a way that's authentic and genuine and creating those relationships not mass spamming emailing Definitely and being authentic and genuine is why I think it really comes from and from what you hit from the very beginning You know, if you if you're hungry and you're desperate people sense it it's unattractive and it's not just In this it's not just with cells. It's in general. I mean You know, I like when I was in grade school if I was trying to get a girlfriend But I was like desperate for a girlfriend. I wouldn't get a girlfriend But as soon as I got a girlfriend That's when I became attractive, you know It's like it's just it's just the way human nature is we could we could sense that kind of stuff But if you genuinely care If you really just want to get to know someone because you want to get to know them Because you want to like build connections If you really just want to help people in this industry, you're going to do very well and it all comes from right here You know, this is where it comes from We could sense when somebody is just spamming and just wants to take money and then we could also sense that somebody really cares Anyone else have any other questions or topics they want to discuss Hello team. How are you all nice to see you again? So first of all, I missed the earlier part of the call. I was just setting up the zoom and everything but it's nice to be back again First thing I want to start for all the people who are a part of this call today and That is that I was a part of the initial two calls and it is a valuable place For me to be and I hope whoever is here today is getting the most out of it right um And adding on to what jeff and lauren were saying. I think I don't own an agency yet I'm just working as a freelancer, but I feel that coming on from a freelancer as well uh networking and communication uh to minju and whoever asked this question and are in this call I feel that networking is The most important. Yes, your design skills and things like that will come in the picture But you need to communicate with people in a way that you know, you can pass on a message that you are here to Not only work, but you are actually here to Work on your skills. I mean, you know as a web developer and designer There is always a scope for improvement. So I don't think so your design is the perfect But if you have a design and you are willing to communicate to people on how you are working on it I think it does the job right there, you know, uh to minju because she asked that question I think communication plays the most important role because I just started in this web designing like a few months back and I have had like a bunch of clients now for five clients I've worked with but the ideology is to keep communicating with the Present clients and also build up your networking to other people so that you can reach out like Freelancer and up work. I think is a good place But that doesn't work out for me because people are selling themselves short there They are making websites for 50 dollars and I don't know what they are making But yes, they are right But for me, I think if you have got that spark of working and communicating You can charge more as for your skills, but it's more about Trusting people and making people trust you that you are there for them, you know Um, like for example, if you have a new client start off with, uh Um contract so I want to say because I just Sent my first contract to a client. Thanks to Jeff and the team at Elementor I was able to do with the help of everybody because I didn't do it and I wanted some guidance on it and Jeff To tell you brother, it went really well your guidance and the whole group's guidance went well And it was a three-page contract. The client was like, oh, it's a little big But when I walked through him over the phone call, he was pretty okay. That okay. It looks good. Everything is nice You know, and it's going well. It's in the process So I think if you put yourself out there and there is a like six seven hundred members of people in this group I'm sure someone or the other will come forward to help you out if you are ready to Network, I think people are ready to network with you and I really appreciate Jeff and Lauren and because Uh, I was really nervous when I had to make my first contract I was like, oh, what do I need to put in? It's this is not me and But believe me it came out much better than I could have thought of and I Give these credits to the whole community who has put in some thoughts, you know, Lauren and Jeff So I think there is always an answer for a question if you are looking for But you should know how to put that question across and how to move forward with it. So yeah This this sounds out to be very useful And that's that's me. Thank you Yeah, I think Jeff was very Jeffrey was very busy last week because I asked exactly the same thing from Jeffrey that like a show me the Example contract because it was the first contract for me to last week. Yeah. Yeah, and then yeah, he gave me the room Video you should just post it. I think to show to other people Jeffrey that that That video anyway, yeah, yeah, thank you for your tip and then communication part I think I'm kind of good because I have been trans I've been freelancing translation Doing like for three years right now. So my communication actually way better than most of other other Freelancers I really like because translation part is really really fast communication than other build But yeah, and but thank you for your advice advice and then I think Yeah, I think we are in the kind of similar page right now of our career path and I wish we can see our like difference In like six six months that we are like grow way more than like no nervous with the contract anymore like those things Yeah Yes, one thing I feel and I think it's a very useful tip. Even if you do not have work Um, I was not a part of the last call, but I did see the recording of the last call My my suggestion is do not sell yourself for free because I see a lot of people doing that And I think the session happened on the last call I saw the video last night to be a part of this call apparently Like my suggestion is I hope you were there. I'm not sure but don't sell yourself for free because if you are not Valuing your own time. I don't think so the customers are gonna value your time So even if you don't have work, don't sell yourself for free charge less This is how I started like I started with like a 300 400 500 dollar mark for a website But slowly when you start building Your referrals will work and your work will show If you want to work for free make a website for yourself out of nowhere, you know Other than working for customers. So this is the best tip I give to everyone and don't sell yourself for free Otherwise you are killing yourself, you know, you are making yourself vulnerable. That's it How fiber people how how people working on the fiber can make a website with the five like like $50 That's just like you just made me that kind of question in my head. Anyway, thank you Yeah, thank you for your tips Yes, see the I think minjoo they do work for $50 but that word has to be redone again with $400. So it's additional cost anyway So you see what it's going, right? So Okay, thank you for your tips. Yes, that's all right Well, rajah, this is good to see you back made. It's always awesome to have you here and your energy is always welcome here and happy holly Yes, thank you. I happy holly see my hands. It's super You know when it comes to like Going for fiverr or going in another direction Uh I wrote this note down right here. I was going through it because you know, like we all have Different goals and we all have, you know, like I don't want to knock anybody for what they choose to do You know, all I know is what I what I choose to do with myself But you know, whatever you choose to do, I think it all starts with uh, the very beginning building your persona So if you're new if you are on fiverr, you're on up work Or you're still like struggling like how do I get clients? Where do I go? What do I do? How do I do this? You know, I could start off with building your own persona figuring out What do you want to do? You know, what what is your goal like in one or two years? Where do you want to be at inside this career right here? Do you want to stay? You know like on the upward platform Or do you want to start working with bigger clients? Do you want to have an agency? And after you could build that persona and you could figure out Who you want to be then you could all then you could go ahead and look at who do you want to serve And how can you serve and how can you take care of them? And you know, it's up to you that that's so that's a that's a great thing about this is like You know, it's up to you what you put into it what you want to be and what you want to put out there And it all comes down to value. How much value are you wanting? Are you willing to give? I'm gonna jump in. Yeah, that's true Ellie has a question is going to jump on They're asking if we've ever faced problem-selling a client a website built by element or convincing them that element is an awesome page builder So my question to ellie is have you faced had problems faced obstacles with a client? Complaining about elementors Hi Okay, uh, yeah kind of I mean like you normally are For clients with a budget and you know, we're trying to sell them the old work rest website You know built with element for us. You know, it has this like also the customized total features At times because you know to them you feel that oh, it's a page builder. So, you know, it's gotta be cheaper You know, as I trust things like that and apart from that it's more like, um, even though we were to go through the entire process of Like, you know, revamping their existing website or creating a new one um, it might Be able to start to explore and realize that oh, you it's actually pretty easy and in future. I could just do it myself Yeah, things like that. So I'm just wondering if any of you have Faced any problems to convince them that Yeah, it's doable still with elemental and that, you know, yeah, feel free to come back to me for any future revamp Like you really love my service as in some of my clients. They did refer Other clients to me But I think like the return rate is actually pretty low because in the up they realized that they could actually Do things themselves and stuff like that. Yeah That makes sense. Um, I think it all depends on the client, right? So if we go back to What we're selling is not element or websites or even websites where we're selling our Solutions to someone's business problem. Um, and the way that we do that is through our skills Which happens to be web design and development um For us, I actually did have a client that Was not interested at all in WordPress, let alone elementary. They had issues Two clients actually one client just hates elementary. They like something else And I'm like, you guys don't understand how to use elementary Because they were complaining about things that I'm like, no, no, no, no, it's not like that. Um But one specifically they did not want their website to be on elementary And so it was a process of of working through with them Why that was why they felt that way? Um, and they just wanted a plain html css website Now as At that point I was still freelancer. So as a freelancer, you know, it goes back to having those connections Um, you can still sell the project if you if you know people that can help you outside of WordPress And you just work with that person and and manage it and you can still make money with them. Um But I think that just goes back to like Just kind of why why why do they have those issues and what? Um, why do they feel like elementary is not going to help them with their business problems? Uh, typically I'll Just sell it as like We like to work with elementary because it's a really easy page builder that makes it faster to build pages later And if you don't want us to continue to help you You can always do it on your own because it's a very visual thing You just click edit and save Um, and then they'll pay us for a little bit of training and then they'll do it on their own So it's it's kind of like you've got to Work with the client and question them through their thought process and help them Feel more comfortable with your solution if they don't feel comfortable, then you just got to find another path I would say Jeff do you want to add anything or anybody else want to add anything? I really don't get technical with clients too much About you know, I really don't bring up elements or uh when I because it's It's the tool I use you know, like I feel uh My my goal is I want the clients to focus on their business and not the technical aspects of the website because that's what they hired me for You know, they hired me because I'm the professional and the expert inside the area And when I do like break it down I don't really like say we're using elements or a page builder I tell them we're using the newer technology now that makes it easier for you to update your website It's newer than the older websites the way they were built You're going to really love it because you could edit it in almost like you're editing a pdf And then we'll do the training on it Maybe I get more technical clients because they asked me specifically What are you using? But we included we say we're using element or wordpress in our proposals And we included up front so that they kind of understand what they're investing their money towards So it's probably you know up to you with what you want to Because there are clients you're right, jeff where they just don't Have any idea about anything and you don't want to scare them away Uh, I want to add something on this on word jeff and uh loren said Um To la la ask that question. Can you hear me guys? Oh, no You can okay So my experiences of these till the time uh, the needs of the customers are getting sorted, right? A person wants a website you deliver a website They don't need to get into the technicality as jeff said unless until they ask you, you know How are you gonna do things? You can just keep it simple. We are gonna do this And uh, this is the breakdown. This is your scope of work And uh, this is the cost of the plugins because everyone knows wordpress needs plugin now this plugin can be element or could be Divi whatever you are using it's about your choices, right? But if the person specifically comes and he has a little bit of knowledge saying that oh, you work with element or and I can Do that and you know, it's easy Then probably Everyone can do that, you know But not everybody is in this field right now to do it because as easy as it looks element or but you still need to You know set it up in a way that you know that you are aware about element or you see there are a lot of wordpress users But not everybody is aware about element or are using it. Similarly. There are a lot of People using element or but they are not using Uh, for example a theme like ocean wp or astra where you have templates, you know So not everybody it's not about the awareness what everyone is aware of So I think till the time there are questions put on you My my personal Opinion says that we can keep it simple for everyone like, you know, you need a website. I give a website These are the charges. This is how we do But if it starts getting into a bit of nitty gritties here and there Then probably you can tell them that yes, we are going to use wordpress and It is the most used software. Anyway, right now you can give them some statistics Why people use wordpress and not wicks and other people and Kind of sorts problem up. I mean thankfully as of now out of my last few projects I didn't face this concern. I just told them that you know, I'm using certain plugins which are Chargable. These are the material cost and it gets over there but if they specifically request html css website and They stringently watch it, then probably you need to reach out to more people as Lord said, you know You do need to make because if you are a designer and not into coding and everywhere Then probably you need to make some connects over there. But for me, I think Customers do not really get into that much nitty gritty. They need a website. They get a website That's the end of most of the stories. But sometimes you never know Yeah, that's it So I'm gonna add just one more thing to this You know, like after you have experience developing sites and have that time behind you You know, you start to see Elementor might not be the solution to every single website So some websites should not have Elementor working on it. You should go more custom or, you know, you know ACF or you know, maybe even Shopify. I don't know but that's up to the developer You know to try to choose the right tools So, you know, just something to also keep in mind if you really feel Elementor is the right tool for a project, then You know, that's that's your expertise on it Jeff I have a question just on that as you said, um Out of the this is just a rough analysis question because I have developed like five to seven websites So this is my experience and I have used Elementor on them out of the Websites you have built and maybe Lauren can answer that as you, you know, personally individually you not you as an agency But you as a person How many percentage of websites you think you use Elementor for or how useful this tool was To really build up your business because you are in a group of building business with Elementor So how useful was it for you? How much percentage of websites you could make using Elementor as a base? Yes, ACF will come in and some other plugins will come in, you know, um, but what is the Percentage of website you were able to make keeping Elementor as a base just so that we have an idea that yes It's not like you cannot use it everywhere or you can So before Elementor we're using WP bakery for most projects. Yeah You guys know how fun that is right there WP and like our our jobs are about I would say 66 percent, uh, WordPress 33 percent Uh, Shopify, we do a lot of e-commerce and I've done personally a lot of e-commerce as well I but a majority I would say just a high majority maybe out of our WordPress websites about 80 percent of them Maybe 90 percent Uh, we're with WP bakery. So when I switched over about two years ago to Elementor um, it was just You know just it helped us out to speed up our workflow It also opened up the possibilities of what we could do because when we're using themes of WP bakery We're limited You know or would have to spend tons of time to like add a feature or add something So I would say right now even myself or my agency. I would probably say about 75 percent of the sites that we built are with Elementor And I would number and I prefer Elementor like I look I personally I like that It's fun to me You know like I get sometimes some very big projects that has the customizations They're not always fun to me. You know, I like the Elementor sites. I found like it works well with My workflow with my niche and with you know, what I'm trying to do Yeah, sounds good. That answers the question. So this is it then you can use Elementor for most of your work unless until it's Very big custom stuff you are doing. So yeah makes sense. Thank you for that Yeah, I'm the same as Jeff to where we went from with WP bakery to Elementor and I mean, I can't be for Jeff We're not sponsored by anybody at all We're not making any money for our recommendations here um I think the the thing about our field and this is for everybody is that It's going to get easier and easier to build websites where everybody can do this You just go in and click and add your content And that gets it harder to justify spending money on it when any five-year-old can go in and build a website So it's one I would say find whatever system works best for you Like Jeff said that automates your workflow because as a developer, we're doing the same work again and again and again Whatever you can do to make that shorter. You'll make more money and you'll have more time to do other things For me for us Elementor is that and we've tried WP bakery, and we've tried Divi and we tried Oh my gosh, I'm not I'm blanking on the name Jeff who is it? It's the new one It's the new one that's a bracey bracey No, not that one. It's not WordPress. It's not WordPress at all. Um Oh workflow Webflow And a lot of developers love or designers love webflow But just for us for the type of websites we're building where someone is spending money and wanting An expert to make it Elementor has been best and fastest and most stable for us So we do custom work too. I would say probably like Jeff. It's like 75 80 percent as a mentor 20 percent is custom You could definitely build your entire business off of elements or websites most definitely It doesn't at the end of the day is It's the tools are always going to get better I mean the way I look at it is like look at just industry, you know regular Industry like manufacturing. They're constantly getting better Manufacturing equipment that streamlines the flow that enables them to get out more products faster And they're not lowering their prices when they do that You know, they're just they're they're streamlining and they're building up their business on it. I really think like that's how Designers and developers that that use element or need to look at the business as well Because I really feel myself included There was something in there that that you know that that was in in my mind thinking like if i'm building a website Half in half the time. Maybe I shouldn't charge as much or when I'm starting to quote a project And I'm quoting it and I'm thinking oh, it's only going if I use elements or It's only going to take me five days to build it Maybe I should only charge, you know a thousand dollars for this and really it's the wrong way to think It's not it's not business minded and at the end of the day it comes down to what you're providing Is that website going to solve your business problems? Is it going to help their business out? You know, I know like anyone could use it right now But can you make a website professional achieve the client's goals with it? It doesn't matter the tool the tool just helps us with our process And this is a little bit off topic of what the topic is but with what jeff said where it's like Do you charge less for getting something done faster? Absolutely not because Um, if that's the theory the slowest worker is the richest person And you know that doesn't necessarily mean your clients are happy either Jeff is muted. He's talking but he's muted Where if you're experienced and you're able to get something done faster You're worth more than the slowest worker and if you're if the client's happy within five days when it would take another person a month Yeah, that's you know three weeks saved for you and and three weeks saved for that client as well, you know So there's value in that All right, cool. So we've actually been trying to keep the calls brought down to about an hour It has gone on to I mean, I love it. I can sit and talk all day You know, I just geeking out. That's why I love like hanging out with other designers and developers But uh, definitely want to like respect everyone's time as well because you know, maybe people got personal time or gotta work So maybe we should bring it to a close But first, you know, open it up for any last questions If anybody has anything before we end the call that they want to uh, go ahead and bring out I feel like I'm just the buzzkill right now That's just Party's over people. I'm not good at goodbyes like and that's just and you know in general I'm just not good at goodbyes. I could drag out a goodbye as long as you know, well look at Thank you, Lauren Uh, Lauren, thank you. It was a great great topic and I got quite a few things out of this one right here It's it's just You know these things When we talk about it always look at it from a different perspective One of the things I got is about niching but we could talk about that some other time But light bulbs started going on, you know, uh, I'm really glad to see the others here and I'm glad to see already the The value that's coming out like it's helping it's helping and you know, that that was my whole Vision for this, you know, my whole vision was to build something that's going to help people and You know, like I I didn't have this when I was new and I'm glad to see that we could have provide something where you know, we're just here To help each other just to talk and if anyone is new to uh, these groups or these calls You know these calls they're just for for other designers developers other Elementor users or anyone looking to start their business to have a place Where we could come to and we could learn together no matter at what level you're at We're all at different levels, but we all can learn from each other and uh You know, I look forward to the next week's call And if anybody has any comments any ideas any suggestions post them inside the group, you know The everything right now is still new. I'm learning from this group. I'm listening To everyone inside this group. So I'm listening, you know, we're listening and this is for the group All right. So with that if anyone has any last things we'll just go ahead and wrap it up and Say that hard. Goodbye Yes, um, the only thing is as I say always whenever I am apart Um, I am grateful to the whole community and jeff and jeff and loren as well for Hosting these calls and coming every week like I was absent for last two weeks But you know, you guys are doing some hardcore karma yoga there for the people So thank you and we are grateful. That's it. You're here in spirit, man. We felt your energy still I'm always there ever omnipresent, you know, maybe not physically but omnipresent. Yeah All right, cool. So let's go ahead and wrap this up next week. Uh, we might have a whole different topic I'm not sure what yet if you guys have any ideas go ahead and like, you know, post it Leave it in the comments or you can hit me up too Uh, anybody wants to reach out to me go ahead and reach out to me. I'll always get back to everybody And uh with that let's go ahead and end this Cool. Thank you everyone. Thanks for joining me. Namaste. Thank you. See you soon people