 script pursuant to Governor Baker's March 12th, 2020 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law, general law, Chapter 30A, Section 18. This meeting of the transportation of advisory committee is being conducted via remote participation. This meeting is being recorded at the web and could be shown on Amherst Media and broadcast in the town of Amherst YouTube channel. I don't, oh yeah, to say, okay, I see the recording light is on. Anybody dialing in by phone can press star nine to raise their hand to be recognized. People with video can click on the raise hand button at the bottom of their screen. Otherwise I'll watch for real hands and gestures to recognize you. That sets my style. Muting when you're not speaking is recommended. That's in the script. I read that even though we've all been very good about not having background noise better than we've been about talking before we unmute. So I think it's fine if you aren't crazy about muting every time. Oh, and that's it. That is all that I have to say to open up the meeting. The, a couple of announcements. And I was hoping, well, when Tracy comes and catches up with us a little bit later, I'm expecting her to join us. She went to a MassDOT moving together. I think you all saw the hi-eve, you all saw her promotion of that. And she just had some interesting things that she's taken from that that I wanted us to hear tonight. I was chatting with Guilford a little bit earlier. Darcy, when she sent me an email that about not being able to be with us tonight suggested that we get our two cents worth in on the budget forums for, I guess there are forums that are happening, well, what is happening right now? Anyway, and I took that sort of as a, not only as a suggestion as a constituent of hers, but also maybe as chair of a committee that might have some ideas about things that we would want to take to that forum. This is something we've talked about in the past and we haven't had a really good answer for that. Our advice often is not budget directed. We have suggested things like getting somebody into the town hall who can advocate and work on transportation issues. And Guilford is suggesting that again in a slightly different form. So I think I'm going to try to figure out how to bring that into the budgeting process. I'll probably exercise Darcy on that. Also, this is actually old news and I can't remember if I brought it to the committee but our work on the Route 9 Northampton Road repaving and rejiggering it. It's not strictly repaving but it is some improvements as well. We had a bunch of ideas that we put in to them during the design process at 50%. And I had a chance to look at, and I don't know if we're all interested in it but I had a chance to look at the draft 100% drawings and all that stuff is in there. So that was, I wanted to say that out loud so Darcy could hear it and know that we do things. There's important stuff that gets done here. So Eve, do you know if Tracy, is Tracy there or is Tracy, do you know what her? She texted. Oh, she says she's joining as public and then asked to be admitted. So we need to bring her into the panel. Oh, when we see her, okay. So I'm gonna, huh, okay. So she's not showing up yet. Why don't I, I could also email her the link. Would that work? Yeah, well, she got it. She did get it. I know Amber sent it to her. Yeah, she's been having some problems but she hasn't contacted me or anything yet saying it hasn't let her in and she's not in the attendees panel. Yeah, no, I see that. So yeah, she has a couple of different email addresses. Oh, there you are, Tracy. Oh, she's still muted. Sorry. Hi Tracy, not at all. I know you've been having a busy day. I couldn't find the link. I'm sorry, I couldn't find the link. Yeah, I used my UMass email address with stuff with the town because somehow a lot of town emails to my home address never get to me. I don't know why that is. So. So what's UMass address is that? It's just tzafiannetumass.edu. Okay, not, okay. Any of the other ones, they all like resolved to the same thing. I'm not trying to have like 10 emails. And it's okay to send stuff to UMass even though this is kind of now maybe it's not really political. Well, I mean, I am sensitive to that. I just have never been able to fix that the issue with the Amherst emails. Like if Guilford was to email me, I would never get it, but it would never bounce to Guilford. And yet I send it to your personal address and stuff comes. Yeah, it's just something with the town and I don't know. So I'm just getting to the spot in the agenda when I wanted, I was wondering if you had something to tell us about the moving together from Bastio T. Oh yeah. Sounds like a fun three days for anybody who's a traffic nerd anyway. Well, I mean, so moving together, the focus of it is bicycles, pedestrians, transit, accessibility, safety. It's not as cars as much. I mean, there is stuff on signals and things. It was a good conference. We had 1,300 attendees. We had 36 sessions. One of the things I really liked was that we had, there were a lot of, I mean, one thing nice about doing a virtual conference is you get to have participants, not only from Massachusetts, but also from other states. So we had people from like seven DOTs. We had people internationally calling. We had some great keynote speakers and everybody gets to just sit at their computer, but it was good. And yeah. I mean, the secretary of transportation, she focuses, she's been talking for a few years about transportation equity. So she was part of a number of sessions on that. I assisted a session, a really great session on transit post COVID and how to keep transit going. And that was really, those were really important timely topics. And yeah. And so actually, so Ben, who's one of the Amherst planners, I guess he was hired in February, Chris would know. And I had never met him before. Chris, you're muted. Ben was hired in February, but he didn't start until June full time because he was in grad school. Okay. So Ben, he presented on the first day about the shared streets, money that Amherst got from Mass DOT and the Montague planner also presented that day. And it was a really slick video about the project. And I'm hoping to share those as soon as possible. So yeah, it was great. What would the mechanism be for sharing that, just sending a... Well, so the videos, those two videos are gonna go back to the towns. We're just doing some processing on them, like adding the Mass DOT logo and things like that. But those will be released pretty soon. In terms of all the conference sessions, those will all be released. But we're adding close captioning to all of them, which takes some time. And just for accessibility, particularly if they're gonna be posted on the Mass DOT website, they all need to be fully accessible. So that will probably take up to a month or something. Okay, so Mass DOT, it'll be in the Mass DOT website. Right, but the Amherst video will be much sooner, I think. So yeah. Good, well, thank you. Thank you for that. I don't know, did any of you guys, I mean, I sent around that little promo. Did any of you tune into any of it? Yeah. I'm just gonna ask a question, if I may. Please, Bruce. Tracy, is the Sherrod Streets, is that going toward a particular project in Amherst? You said we've gotten the Sherrod Streets grant from the state. It was a downtown grant. I mean, Chris would probably be able to speak more to it, but it was COVID-related funding. It was related mostly to outdoor dining, but it involved eliminating one turning lane on North Pleasant Street going south to Amity Street and widening the traveled way there so that we could have a bike path as well as outdoor dining. And South Pleasant Street was also adjusted. The Mass DOT grant paid for a number of things, including a couple of new bus shelters. I think there are three altogether. It paid for numerous heaters, outdoor heaters, to allow outdoor dining to go ahead this fall. And then we have some in storage that we're gonna bring out next spring. It's gonna pay for planters and just a number of different things related to adjusting the street to allow outdoor dining, but at the same time allowing or keeping the bike lane and making sure that it's safe for pedestrians. So I think we got, when did we get Guilford, 129,000 or something like that? I think that's what we got. And we're gonna apply for another one, I think. That round is coming up starting in December. December 4th is the first due date. So you have to figure out what to apply for for that. Oh, thank you. Yeah, so that's, thank you. And along those lines, sort of questions, I've got one for Guilford as well that I've just put on my notes here under announcements. We've noticed the automatic speed limit signs, the speed registering speed limit signs. I guess there are two that I know of. I don't know if there are more. One on South Pleasant Street and one on Amity. And South East Street, where is it? Where's the other one, Tracy? There's one on the UMass campus. And there's also, I mean, I'm one, It's not ours. No, I know. And there's also one on North Pleasant Street through campus. Is that one yours? Is that part of North Pleasant Street? There's two on the UMass campus then. North of, like North Amherst, there's one on North Pleasant Street. Yeah, there's one on North Pleasant Street in the vicinity of Village. Right. Village Park is on- North Village, North Village, right. One on Amity Street, and there's one on South East Street. Way down at the top. And on Amity, right. So the two that are ours anyway, and I don't know who might speak to the two that are from the university. Is there anything gonna be done to test their efficacy? I mean, they're pretty and they're gonna startle people for a while then is it just gonna become like a, how do we know that it's not gonna become just like another speed limit sign which gets ignored when we're in a hurry to get to work in the morning? Believe, if you believe all the studies that have been done by transportation people, it will be ignored. It will become white noise at some point. The issue came up the police department got a grant for some of these signs and that's where they came from. The police department are gonna actually, the three we own, which are one on North Pleasant, one on Amity, one on South East Street. Police are gonna actually calibrate them so they can actually use them for enforcement. So you can't do remote enforcement from it, but as long as there's a police officer sitting there and can see the sign and see the car and match the two together, they can write tickets. That boosts their efficacy, I imagine, then that sometimes there'll be a cop hiding behind the billboard right beyond it and sometimes not. If the planning board would approve billboards in Amherst, yes. I mean, I have to get the marker. I was just a quick thing. I thought they were meant to stop flashing when you went the speed limit. These belong to the police. One of them that I've driven by, actually below the speed limit, they're still flashing at me. They belong to the police department and they program them and they've programmed the way they wish to program them. I have ridden as fast as I can my bicycle towards it and I can't get it to flash, no matter what I do. The Amity one flashes below speed limit, but it's like close to it and it says slow down and things, but I mean, there actually have been a number of studies that show that they are effective, too. So I may be reading different journals. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing, it's a long term. Yeah, I mean, even within a few years, they're still shown to be effective. I guess particularly, I think, if it's paired with enforcement, but... Yeah, I mean, and also, I mean, like on Amity, people, I mean, I live off of Amity and people are not aware of how fast they go down the road. So I think, you know, it can be a wake up call just to realize that you're going like 40 or 50 miles an hour, just you're going downhill, there's no speed limit signs there or anything. So I think that that can, I mean, nobody wants to be speeding intentionally. And every four years we have a new population anyway. Well... Right, and so it'll be new and exciting for them. Yeah. So who do we speak to in the police department if we're interested in getting more data on those in the future? Just out of curiosity, who's in charge of that? The chief? What, I mean, what data do you want to get out of it? I'm just, just, you know, I'm playing transportation nerd and I'm kind of curious as to how well, and whether in our case, they're working. The actual, the machine's actually overwrite them, overwrite what they store. So if they do any type of data collection, it's pretty much overwritten almost by the end of the day. So there's no, you'd have, we'd have to go in and probably change it a little bit, but I don't think they're actually set up or can be set up right now to actually store data and take it after a long period of time. So those are like literally digital stop signers, speed limit signs. Yeah, that's kind of too bad. Cause I mean, they're nice and they look like they'll work and they're, but as so many things in the past that have looked great and like they would work, maybe they won't. And, you know, if they do work, we'll want more and if they don't work, well, it was a good try. Well, we haven't, living on Southeast Street, anything, anything will help. Yeah, yeah. Yes, like sidewalks along the entire length. Oh, well, that's a difference. You know, the grandkids are not allowed in the front yard for, you know, our reasons. Did anybody mention the MassWorks grant yet? That I saw WWLP had a story on it for West Street and Plummer Eye Intersection. I was about to mention it. I had my hand up. Chris, oh yes, you do. I see your hand over there. I'm sorry. So the town applied for a MassWorks grant, the planning department and the DPW together. And it's really exciting. And we got a $1.5 million to redo the intersection at Pomeray Lane in 116. $1.5 million is not a lot of money, considering how much work needs to be done there. So Guilford's gonna work his magic and try to get a plan together for that much money. But we're really excited that something's finally gonna happen because I started working with Jason's skills on this project, something like 2004, 2005. And we came up with a good plan at the design review board that Guilford isn't too fond of. But anyway, Jason and the design review board and I came up with a plan for that intersection way back then. And we did try for a MassWorks grant in 2013 and didn't get it. So we finally got in it now. And we just have to figure out how to make the project work within the budget. And it's a really good thing. And we were all there to hear the governor and the lieutenant governor. And I'm not sure who Mr. Keneally is, but he was there too and he announced the awards. Are we gonna put a roundabout in there? Yes, Guilford. Boos? I was just gonna ask the same question. Yeah. We're in this dilemma of what to actually put there. They actually, I don't know, they gave us the grant but we didn't really tell them what we're gonna build. So I think the first part of the grant is engineering, right Chris? And then we have a construction phase. So we need to design and decide on the design and then we can build next, the next year. Roundabout sounds good, yeah. Yeah, roundabout might not, might be difficult to fit that. So Guilford or Chris, how much of the old CDBG plan might be implemented or pulled into that? Cause there was a full blown accessibility. It was an accessibility improvement to that intersection which did spill over a little bit and describe other components of it. Will that be pulled in at all? Are we starting from scratch? That's sure what you're referring to but there is going to be a lot of work related to making that intersection accessible because right now it doesn't have curb ramps down from sidewalks and in some places it doesn't even have sidewalks. So much of it is going to be about accessibility and getting people through that intersection on foot and on bicycle and on cars. Yeah, yeah, I know that there's been some work done on that in the past. I would be hard-pressed to say where those plans came from and where they might be if I could find them at all but it involved accessibility mostly on the northeast corner. Cool, so when does that work to design going to start? It's probably in the next few months. I don't know when we get the money. It was just announced today. So I don't know how quickly they turn around and give us some money but Guilford and his team are going to do the engineering and so I don't know what the plan is to get started there and there's probably going to be some public process and yeah, so everybody's going to have their say about it but it's great that we're finally doing something there. So if Guilford is doing it that means he'll be around about for sure. Okay. I would strongly recommend that everybody Google's mini roundabout because that would certainly fit in that space and is a widely used alternative to traffic lights. Everywhere else in the world. Yeah, and we already know of some problems near there that a roundabout might help resolve with slowing the DC sort of giving the traffic an idea as they're heading south that they shouldn't open up their jets until maybe past pot wine. So I noticed the other day that's kind of actually lead to another conversation. I'm kind of curious why the speed limit down by Hampshire College is 50 miles an hour yet North East Street is 40. Probably mostly because it can be. Well, I was hoping that North East Street would be 52 but anyway, that's a different. No, I mean that's a speed limits are a little bit magical and have to do with how much, you know how fast people want to travel in that particular road but when you've got a mile landing strip which is, you know, 60 feet wide. I'm sort of surprised that people only go 50 on it. They keep the speed limit. Yeah, so by the way, Marcus, I just just before we go on to much further I appreciate you being at the four seasons. This is a very storied, a storied location. Yeah, it's going to be a national monument scene. Aaron, are you able to see me because I've been raised. Yeah, I look at the people who are talking and not the people who are not talking. Eve. So just a very briefly just a reminder that we that that action was part of one of the subcommittee walks and I just am particularly appreciative of our, the member of that subcommittee at that time who was a PBTA driver. He had a lot of insights about sort of bus access and safety. So I would recommend referencing that briefly. I think the subcommittee reports I've seen them like they're still on the website but not on the tech page. But there are somewhere else. Yeah, so because there is another document missing. Also we spoke about I believe at the October meeting and someone went in and edited the website in July. That doesn't normally edit it. So I have to go in and do some recovery work on it. And find those documents again, honestly. No, but Amber, they're on a different page. Like I pulled them up somewhere different. I can send you a link when I. Yeah, that's odd. So yeah, let me know and I'll recover them. Okay. Thank you. That's a little surprised, but, but I guess during COVID when you're all locked down and having plenty of time to fuss with things, maybe something gets too tidied up. Hearings, if any, we don't have any. I was hoping tonight to, to reheat and get going and get going to the, to the and push across the finish line. Our bicycle and pedestrian plan. And I think that's a good idea. One of the things that, that Guilford may not have had time to do during the course of the week, even though I've been pestering him. Is, is get that so that we can pull it up and take a look at it. No. I have it. I have it here. I don't know. Do I want to. Yeah, I'm sure that we ever saw the revision after, after the PVPC did the final revision. And I know we never got the map. Well, yes. And what I, what I have to, to, to show, I mean, I have the whole thing and maybe part of our homework and getting it going again is to, to look over it quickly, and see what we've done now. And you're right, there's some edits that haven't gone in. I have the copy of those two long lists of things that we wanted to see fixed. So I don't know where all of that is in the final draft. I think it's there, but I don't know if it ever got published and sent back to us. I know there's a couple of hours left. I think it's time to, to, to do for them to, to, to finish the PVPA to finish. So, so Guilford or Chris, maybe Chris, where, where is that? Where are those? I thought the text was finished. But I can ask Maureen. I can confirm that with her. She's the person who. Right. And. And also in, in working on this. We have our. Cover sheet. Where is it? That. Even I worked on. Just a letter describing. I said I would, but I think you would. Yeah, you, you, you did finally send, send the letter. And I did, I did pull in this stuff. I. Yeah, I know that was, that was a pretty hard time. For a lot of reasons. And. I haven't sent that around, but so, so what's left to do just, just, I know there's some, some among us who haven't. Been up to their elbows in it for months and months and months, the way the rest of us have the, basically PVPA put together. And we did, we did a lot of research about. Our existing. Pedestrian and bicycle networks in town. And put together a nice little report, which is, I, is it on the website? Yes. The draft is on the website. Okay. For us to look at it. And. I think pretty much everything is done. I think that the, the status, the way things were two years ago are understood and, and described in the report. And what's left, there's two big things that are left. One is to finish the. The wishful thinking maps. Where. At this point. There is a description of what the final, the final. Network of bicycling and pedestrian ways might be through town. It's a, it's a, it's a dark blue. Yeah. Let's see. I'll see. I guess I do this. Maybe, maybe it pops up. I'm still learning this now myself. So. The, we have. This map. This is the cover. The front page of the report. And the dark blue lines show where. Where. Where we want the routes to go. Ultimately. The. What have I done? I've broken something here. And. We plan, we hope to sit. Together and finish. Making those blue lines. There, there are some gaps in them that are not right. There are, you know, just, just problems with it. That's got to be tidied up. And so that has to happen. And then next, I wanted to talk about how we might want to publish it ultimately. I don't know if it's enough. I'm certainly not happy with just. Putting on the website where people might stumble across it, but rather. Have some other. Event. And I don't know what the right event would be. To, to sort of finalize it. And maybe get some last minute input. So. I will send it around as a, as a. Something separate so you don't have to go poking around on the website. I think that would make sense. And I want to point out, of course, it's not a hearing because we don't do those. It's a. It's just something else. A listening. Or a presentation. Presentation. Sounds good. The. I'm wondering what we think. Bruce. Should there be a public hearing and discuss it. There's public input before it's finalized. What do you think? I think that would make sense. And the, and I want to point out, of course, it's not a hearing because we don't do those. It's a, it's a something else. A listening. The. Especially since. I don't know that I would want there to be much editing, much. More input coming to it. Cause I think we've done a good job. I think we're basically finished except for the, the final. Final. Boy, would I love to have a meeting in person and just put this piece of paper in between us on the table, on the table, on the table, on the table, on the table like we did before. And put crayons on it. Actually. Guilford. Now that I've said it, how, how are we going to do this? How are we going to make that final edit? Public input. No, no, just just our finishing the. The charcoal drawings. I think we just need to mark it up and then we can have someone in here and make the actual changes. Yeah. I mean. Well, do you, do you want. Does anybody have the ability to mark it online and then send it back or. Yeah, we could. Yes. So, so basically it'll be a share screen and you'd share the. You'd share the application, which would be. Adobe acrobat or something. And all the lines. Okay. I think that that's a good idea. I like that. And. So what kind of public presentation would we. Would we want. You know, in this, this time of, I'm realizing I hadn't thought about how complicated this question is because of our current. Situation. But maybe there's experience. Chris. I think in the last three years, we've been working with a lot of people, with the general public, with Milford with a rolling stuff out publicly. And, you know, using the tools of Zoom or whatever we've got. Just be a big zoom meeting, right? That are effective. Oh, I mean, you could do. You could do like breakout groups or something. if you're trying are you talking about like is that we're referring to two separate things one is our sitting around the virtual table and using your magic markers to mark up a PDF to finish the networks that we we left undone and then when that gets folded into the final draft um a second event would be to present it to the public somehow or other and a big public zoo meeting which will be maybe this meeting except advertised a little bit more broadly we had pretty good luck getting people to come to that public forum that we had at the bank center there was a lot of interest so I bet there would be yeah you mean the one we had yeah I know there's lots of pictures of that in the report which is kind of nice um you know I'm sure there'll be lots of interest but how how to engage it and then you know what does it present the presentation look like because we can't do the bank center again no you're just gonna have to do it on go Chris oh I was going to say Maureen could do it I mean she could show her screen and present the the um the text and then present the maps as well but the maps would we'd probably want the maps to be finished before we presented them right yes of course and that's that's what Kim is going to help us figure out how to finish them okay um Aaron uh Bruce uh also is it possible that this could be online somewhere to be read and looked at before the meeting so people can have their questions formulated so uh yes I will send it around and let me for the when we get to the point of the general public could they read it first before the meeting um yeah I mean I I imagined that publishing it on the website as as the I mean it's there now as a draft and the update could continue to be there as a draft as well and the announcement might include a pointer to it so that people know it's there because you know people don't always dig deeply into uh committee websites for stuff what sounds like a good plan um the maps aren't um posted on the website only the text is posted as far as I know right so a question for for Gilford I guess is is there um a PDF of that map that the two maps they're they're actually there's a there's a screenshot there's a picture of the two maps that are in the report now I think and it's hard to read I think Maureen got the data files so I think we have the map so it's just matter of putting it together so all right so is it is the write-up Chris on the planning what page it's not on the attack page might be I found it but I I went at a yeah a circuitous route but I'll look at the planning okay so Gilford you're thinking that Maureen got the GIS layers I know she's got all the data yes okay yeah because that's what we were needing for the one kind of go yeah I mean we only need the the one really the the map yeah but well once the once as I understand that the idea was we get the the the draft map then we you know annotate what needs to change and then it goes back to the town GIS people and with those GIS layers and they revise it right that does sound right but what we're going to be marking up will probably be a not a GIS because because not all of us have the the ARC view but it'll be just a PDF so we can use our our markup tools that you professor types use every day in your zoom meetings so I guess so Gilford I guess we would look for that that a PDF version of that map and you know if it yeah what's in the what's in the draft report like I say it's pretty low resolution and hard to read and not editable at all because the gif I think as opposed to GIS it is on the transportation advisory committee webpage the link is there where is it it's a lot later but it doesn't it doesn't have the data file that we're interested in Gilford isn't it only the draft the early draft that's there no it's a it's a later draft yeah yeah the yeah and I haven't looked at it to see if all of our notes are in the draft that's on the website I kind of imagine maybe all except for the very last ones yeah are there and this is dated December of 2018 and I think that's pretty much when we stopped working with PVPC except that they were doing a few more edits and we ever posted whatever they edited in the end yeah I thought they like I thought they did edits into January or yeah we were working into it yeah for a while it's sort of it's sort of tapered off but I want to want to finish and roll it out the door okay so that that'll be I'll put that at the top for for next time and we'll talk about when next time is because there's some some events coming up that postpone meetings I think the board would be interested in this you know there are a couple of members of the planning board who joined the planning board thinking that they would have some influence over bicycle and pedestrian safety and I think they've been disappointed that the planning board doesn't focus much on that but they would be interested in seeing this plan here so okay so we'll make sure that they're there on the invitation list directly I would also imagine there's some other committees that we might want to and I don't know what the status of of the other committees are that you know design review board for instance might want to be sorry Gilford the DAC might want to be you might want to get a separate invitation I don't know if LSS would want one that just just because a lot of the network would be used for recreation I expect a lot of it would be used for recreation I don't know if if somebody from the school committee would be interested because I hope that these things get used to get students to the schools not having to take the bus it seems like the first order of business is to get the maps done right yes yes please and so yeah and so so really for that if we can get the pdf and um we'll try to try to figure out how to make a sort of a virtual table to put it on and and crayon it uh crayon on it for next time that'll be nice Chris a question for you and marina as you asked marina about the status of it um when we gave our edits I was the one who had the most detailed like really line by line review and and and then that got incorporated into the package of edits you gave to pbpc and the election was that they just didn't have the hours to do all of the edits that we requested and I'm wondering if there's an opportunity for us to go back in now that it's two years later and and sort of refine some of those things you mean us here in town or yeah probably because we don't have any more money to pay them I mean we could have um pvpc always comes around every year and asks if we want to work on technical assistance grants with them so it's possible that we could grant with them to get this thing finished what do you think so yeah so well a couple of thoughts bernie yeah well I was just gonna say pvpc gets dlta money there's some issue as to how much is going to be awarded with the new budget but um you know if there's given that they've already put they've already invested some time in this would seem like a good use for dlta money if if that fits with the rest of stuff the town wants to do oh my gosh can I add on to that then no kilford says no because for our prioritization plan we would really love some technical assistance from those folks that's sort of the level that we need at this point to finish up our prioritization system that would be a great use of technical assistance that's a thought yeah okay well short of all of the credits we'll be we'll be working on that so in the complete streets program um I mean you can qualify like with you can qualify for some assistance I mean we've been also working like even I have been working with the subcommittee on the prioritization plan more generally and it does say that once you're in tier one you can apply to mass dot for some assistance in technical assistance funding to complete your prioritization plan so I don't know whether we could try to tap into that money or how much is available that was gilford's original idea we were trying to save him that money we're actually we're actually in the process of doing that so but okay what what you're doing yeah I mean we're in the process of trying to get that grant it's um it's we're just in the process it's only 38 000 and you gotta remember though that well let me tell you a story the downtown money we got for the great downtown improvements that you were talking about earlier the heaters and all that well you got extra money if you're willing to put a dedicated bus lane in so that's the level of thought that mass highway is asking for right now so if you ask for something from mass highway they're going to want you to put in a dedicated bus bus lane or are they going to want you to think at that level which I think is not really what we were thinking at so we have to be careful how much we how much we do the mass highway type of thought process versus the embers type thought process so so if we're willing to put in a bus lane even if we can't and won't as a result is do we still get the money yeah I think you really have to put it okay just to clarify gilford since we were working on that prioritization plan and I think we're if we get some relatively limited technical assistance I think we could finish it up in the subcommittee um but is the grant that you because your original idea was to get a grant to get a contractor to do the whole prioritization plan is that the like are you writing a grant now or is it grant and basically substitute for the work that we've been doing no no sorry they're actually what you they're going to take a lot of what you've done already and mush it into the format that mass DOT wants to see so they can approve us to go to phase three of the program could we work what could the subcommittee work with whoever the bay is that you're talking about yeah that's not a big deal we just have to get to that point okay yeah because the other option is we were going to bring someone in it seems like it would still if we could take it another step or two further it still would be that much easier to use then so it's still if I don't know Chris do you think there's any chance of getting a small bit of money to get some technical assistance from pc to finish up what we've been doing it's possible um I haven't seen their request come out this year so I'll have to see what they're focusing on they focus on different areas and so I don't know what their focus is this year but I guess I was thinking that since they had already worked on the bicycle and pedestrian plan they might be willing to just put in a little bit extra to finish it so so um has the subcommittee met had it has the subcommittee had a chance to roll things along a little bit um no Tracy and I have been insanely busy Tracy I've been insanely busy but today marks the end of well tomorrow marks the end of the semester so things open up a little bit but we really do need yeah yeah um we do need some technical help to move forward so we were um if you guys don't have directions to send us we were going to sort of send out a query to people that you know and Tracy's world as well as to our pbpc contact to see who we could get to help us if we're going to be asking for help on it which I think is a great idea um I'd like to sort of to get it back to the full committee so that we can you know you know we can touch it before it goes off so um when do you think you might be ready honestly Aaron part of what I I want to get it to you guys once we have enough detail to it to be able to show you like here's some of the choices and here's how it would work but I kind of we kind of need technical assistance to be able to get to that step so I don't know that it's I mean we can bring it back to you guys but I think it's actually going to be more your time is going to be more useful after the next step okay well let's just think about that so um and also I guess I'd be interested um Guilford is talking about that it has to be in a certain format to be submitted and approved by the state so if there's some guidance on that that would be helpful too um well I mean I feel like go ahead part you're doing now is like the front end of the plan and then the part that they want in their format is actual projects and actual numbers and taking basically our project list and making putting that into the sense your part is easy we're making the algorithm and the output of the algorithm well and at the subcommittee meetings right we have played with some of the scoring to see how different prior different projects would score like does it make sense to score some projects higher some projects lower right so that's what I want to do on a systematic basis but with some technical help and then bring it to you guys here's you know what these different kinds of score but that gets a I mean there is an agenda item tonight too about the prior priority projects okay right or wherever that is whatever but I wanted to uh yeah I did want to I did want to get on to the um looking at our project spreadsheet I don't know if Guilford had a chance to pull up that so that so that we could all look at it again and I noticed when I looked at it that it pretty much stops one a year ago yeah it hasn't been updated well and so and I don't know that there have been many updates because really everything has been sort of held in abeyance for Nelson's March anyway so Tracy I mean I just have a question I've raised it before just in terms of like I know sometimes the town manager gets emails from the public saying they're concerned about a certain intersection or you know something that they feel like needs improvement and there's also that whatever click fix website and I know some I mean some of those are very small like here this street sign is missing but some of those are actually bigger projects like I'm concerned about the safety in my neighborhood and so I mean is there I mean one of my questions is like this information is coming into all these different sources is there like one comprehensive list place where all of those requests oh Tracy you know you know the answer to this because you were saying it's like been a year but obviously like people have made requests in the last year so so I can oh Aaron if yeah one of the reasons that I'm so anxious about getting the charts next step that's part of what we're trying to say in that is it yeah it come to us and then we'll get it on this list and it's going to go into a couple of different places on the list to be considered um no that's not that's not okay and this is an immediate thing and and so so you know your point is well taken I don't want to be I don't want to be too mean but no but currently doesn't Guilford house the list I always feel like it's Guilford's list and then he gives us part yeah but it's been it's been inactive because of because of the uncertainty about the role the TAC is to play in this new thing and that's that's something that I'm hoping we're getting to the bottom of well reasonably quickly so and the reason that I want to put this on the on the agenda is understanding that it is not up to date and that we are not um um directly a part of it but um I hope we will be in fact nothing that we're doing tonight really is sanctioned yet um I mean there've been suggestions made and and polite agreement that yeah good idea if you keep on doing that um and that's something I'm hoping we fix soon in the meantime to look at this stuff to get it you know out of the oven again put it back on top of the stove so we can begin to to think about and work on it um so there isn't like I say there's a lot of stuff missing because we have nothing since November on that list and even if it's been updated um I mean even if there is there are updates that could be made to it um it really hasn't been our purview to to get them although I'm asking I'm hopeful that Guilford can do that for us so that we can catch up with things when the time comes um I see him looking very constructively at his computer maybe well I actually thought to happen Erin I think the speaking cat moved from you to Amber so um she she had to hand up a while ago and the cat in the window as well so well yeah so on your committee website the email address goes directly into your own inbox so it does get filtered people do respond to that um and then anything from the town manager's office does come down to us but just generally since all this has started even with c-click fix um public interaction is down regarding traveling and I just think it's because nobody is so nobody is really seeing issues like they were but um yeah they're really I haven't seen anything come in through that tech email to that inbox um things may have been sent from the town manager's office to Guilford but I haven't seen anything come through my way and there really hasn't been any sort of issues that have come in through c-click fix but it's just a quiet point right now I guess it's not surprising so let me let Kim go Kim go of course but she has to mute there you go yes um I know for example I myself submitted a c-click fix several at least a couple months ago and I haven't heard anything about it at this committee for example that's direct knowledge of c-click fix yeah well it depends what it would be for I mean not everything you enter gets sent up to here right and and so that's one thing is there's some things which um our screeners amber and Guilford may not bring to us because it's not appropriate that's fine that's fine um but I know there's some other things rumbling around like that actually may have gone away speed limits requests for here and there and that's stuff like that so let me finish with let me finish with Kim first Tracy yeah it's it my particular issue and I'm just bringing this up because of the context was a sidewalk issue so and the sidewalk repair kind of repair thing yeah that that I like I say if we got that I would expect us to sort of move it right along say Guilford you take care of it it's a sidewalk get get it into the now a part of what we had been doing and I don't know how we want to roll this in the future is to say oh there's a sidewalk that that needs a capital effort to repair this is high on the priority or this that's just shuffle this in along there that's something that I hope would help Guilford I mean that's part of one of our roles that we're asking to do um so you know sort of look I guess I'd be like reviewing the paving list and saying yes this goes first um Tracy so I think I mean I just know that in my neighborhood or you know other people I've talked to have contacted the town manager for example like they'll send an email to the town manager and mention an issue they're concerned about um and so and I mean in in those cases right the town manager I mean they'll forward me the response that they've received from a town manager or for somebody else in the town related to their concern whether it's like speeding or you know a certain intersection or anything like that and I mean those I've never seen anything forwarded from the town manager to the committee and I haven't been on the committee very long and I don't know the extent to which like Guilford forwarded stuff to the committee either but as I've only been on the committee a few months and we weren't meeting but since I've been on the committee I've never seen any of those kind of forwards maybe they come to you Erin but they come to me as a committee member yeah he's pretty good about sending me when when it's when it needs to yes Guilford you are raising your hand so this is your third meeting you've had since you had your break and you this committee this committee's life was very much in jeopardy of not because you're basically not going to be here much longer and now you're trying to save yourself so during that year time when stuff was sent in it never left and came to you because there was no committee meetings there was no nothing going on so there were things that have come in there have things that have been taken care of I hate to say it this way but the reason there's a sign on Amity Street there wasn't planned to be a flashing driver feedback sign on Amity Street but the reason was there was so much email going to the town manager's office the police chief said just put it there instead where we're going to put it so that's the mode we're operating in now so once you figure out how this committee is going to help move things along that that would help us know where things are going so that's kind of where we are now that's kind of the way we've been operating at least since March or maybe a little since March yeah which is which is yeah I understand and that's that's why a number of us grew anxious to start getting together again and showing the flag and saying look we're here we're here to help and the whole charge writing process is you know suggesting how we might fit into all of that it's not like everything is stopped because we've stopped and and we appreciate the the signs for instance but um yeah we'd like to get going again Kim well you know I understand that there's a pandemic but all of us are here ready to work and I assumed that the work wasn't happening because you know everyone was was you know trying to figure out the place but I also you know I also don't understand I mean our work is the same yes the town governance has changed but I don't understand why the thought is that our place in that governance has changed as well I mean they haven't told us anything and we haven't changed at all and I feel like we are very functional committee so so I I kind of don't understand that your comment Guilford because because I feel like we have functioned very well and and we also have a very specific you know we've been like looking at these issues I thought I thought at least part of our role was to try and help you like understand the my help guide the mire that is your like purview and um so so I'm curious why you just made that comment I'm sorry what do you see what do you see that makes it that way well I can I can answer that comment yes the council doesn't really know how they want you to be interacting with them and that's been the question and they've been wondering how they want you to interact they also haven't done anything really to change well or to to to do to change how I mean we only offer help I don't understand they they um they they just have they've been trying to figure out how to do it because they some of them feel it's and this is only what I'm getting gleaning from the fact I this is what I'm gleaning from just their comments some of them feel that they're elected and they should have more of a say in how things are handled and they haven't figured out how to handle that that situation and they feel like they don't have enough input to make things happen according to their agenda and what their needs are that's kind of the feeling I have all right hold on Christine is has our hand raised yeah Christine so I wanted to say that um I think part of it is that we are now in a city form of government and city forms of government tend to have fewer committees and so the town manager and the town council are trying to figure out how many of these committees still make sense given the fact that the town council also has committees and one of the town council committees is TSO town services and operations or something like that and they seem to yeah outreach all right so they seem to have the purview of the public way under their umbrella and they're probably wondering um well how do how does our work uh you know what are we going to take on they're a relatively new committee by the way they just came into being sometime during the spring I think maybe in June or something like that when they did away with Oka and then they reorganized themselves so TSO has been around for just a few months and they're trying to figure out exactly what is their role and they seem to be getting more and more involved in things related to the public way and they're probably saying well you know do we still need the advisory committee or are we going to take over the work of that and and I think that's a conversation that's going on kind of in the upper levels higher than my level but um I just wanted to kind of explain that and so you know they're trying to figure it out but it's it's essentially like cities don't have this many committees we have 60 something committees how are we going to sort through this and figure out the ones that we really need right but you know we're we're three committees mushed together into one so that's that's really efficient that's so Guilford that then might have a a request as as a way to advertise and I want to sort of throw this out to the committee to get their ideas on it that the the projects list that we the the prioritization that we working through with the three tabs if I don't know if there's a if you could give us the the things that we've missed that are what are on it or would have been on it so that we can include that in our arguments to the TSO so as far as sort of becoming reconstituted or reinstituted the steps are to get through the charge you know as much as as is useful and get you know Paul's sense of you know distance and direction and then go to the TSO and and you know pitch you know make our case and then ultimately to the town council to make our case so as part of making the case I'm wondering if I think and I'm maybe I'm suggesting that that projects list which has all kinds of you know things on it like well annual paving you know this sidewalk that multi-use path a bridge replacement um do you want me to share it intersections can't can you yes that would be great and there there are two tabs on it I have to learn how to do that I the sharing thing it's a I'm wondering if I have enough computer horsepower to do it but I think I may have caught hang on Tracy there you go so these this is basically it so the top two are done Hampton Road the two North Hampton Road and Belchartown Road are still in the planning process but the date for North Hampton Road is correct it's FY 20 FY 2022 is when it's actually going to be built North Pleasant and Pine Street intersection is just um on hold so it says the same with um Sunday on road station road bridge is actually moving along and action will be coming up on that yeah so the going back to the North Pleasant and Pine Street um are we going to put in the dirty light that's in that is in that that's that's what that is that's there okay that's what's there the ugly light it's temporary light is what we call it here but I like the old terminology okay so the bridge is going to be updated state why I think there's plenty bridges there now we don't need more it's a great traffic calming thing so the bridge is the bridge project is moving forward we have a half million dollar grant we're going to probably reply for another million million something actually a little less than a million I guess to get to the cost if we get that they'll replace the bridge the two parking lots are on hold North Pleasant ped upgrades is actually moving along and probably have some construction next year um West Street and Palmaroy intersection this is the one that the mass works grant was awarded for so that's going to move up um East Pleasant we're still kind of in the preliminary phases of East Pleasant's ped ped surveys and all that um the UMass project through UMass is still kind of on hold because they keep tearing the place up can I ask a question Gilford yeah um so a few a couple years ago we had put North Pleasant and East Pleasant as our two in one and so I'm wondering what how is it that North Pleasant has been able to move forward was there some money that was allocated or a lot of voices that came in on that one and also I'm wondering why this survey hasn't started on East Pleasant North Pleasant was a funded well before that was well before you guys actually became the tack so that project's older um East Pleasant Street it's just a matter of time to do work and get things done as all it is but it'll probably get surveyed shortly and move a little bit faster after that may I ask a question oh yes Chris so speaking of North Pleasant Street I was um I attended a presentation while it was at the planning board meeting last night where um the Newman Center presented their new building to the planning board and the new building is at the intersection of um Massachusetts Avenue and North Pleasant Street and that's your way and their um their plan showed a roundabout uh at the intersection of Massachusetts Avenue and North Pleasant Street is that something that is a town I see that you have that here right is that a town project or is that a UMass project it's going to be a group project between the two of us and if you look at the if you look at the UMass master plan we convinced them to put a roundabout there instead of having the traffic signal okay so that's going to be a a joint project where we work on it together with UMass yes and I think it's done in the next 10 years it'll be a miracle does does that mean that the new roundabout they're putting in was put at the wrong end of the street no they're they're putting one in a faring street in the university at the bottom it's not the top right where this is right um so so so Tracy you're trying to get a word in edgewise I I I don't know if it's if it's a part of this this um this piece of discussion you're going away Tracy now she got she got fed up with me okay okay go ahead Guilford so I mean this is the basic list the citizen requests are here but they haven't been updated for 2020 actually there's one on for amity street in january um and then this is this this tab here is more my tab versus the tab for the committee it's just kind of a tracker but this is a citizen's request there's that many did you cover pot wine I forgot to look out for pot wine that was the other one we had put in our top tier list pot wine and west street intersect yep yep that's this one down here it's on the citizen requests on 30 it's number 31 on the list and you said it's concept conceptual so what does that mean oh I see I see your ones here so so so you're saying that north pleasant pet upgrade was our number one in 2018 east pleasant was our number one in 2019 and pot one was our number one in 2020 that's what you're saying yes got it okay so the um there's a new request for speed limits on one one of the amherst wood roads I can't reach one is that did that come in to you as an example of updates that might get onto this list not on this list if anything it'll just be in a request list and it'll kind of it'll go in here and the request and I see the I think I should I remember there being a wildflower specifically a wildflower a request on wildflower um and I don't remember I can look it up here it's for sidewalks said in July so Kim in a way this is kind of what I I think that we have to offer to the the one of the things one of the important thing we have to offer to the town council yeah I agree but you know I also you know one of the things that worries me is is the column g on this graph is making these issues a district issue rather than a town issue and like I just have to say that because I feel like we are not like a partisan I don't care whose district it's in but I see that our town governance now cares about this it makes me feel very uncomfortable actually yeah and so an update that we actually talked about making but clearly haven't gotten in is that we were going to go with the location more than the district because there is some important there's some important relationships between projects that are that are geographical rather than political and just happen you know to be in one political entity or another I can't remember now that you've brought that up I'm trying to remember how we resolve that as an example the the pomeroy is a Greenwich hot wine and Mill Lane West Street intersections there they fall in between two different districts but they're really part of one issue when you say South Amherst you know you realize oh yeah these are they're connected in a way in that they're along the artery that that is West Street so that's a good that's a good point anyway I I would also like to add that I understand why there's column G but it makes me feel like you know I feel like our committee has done a great job we're not we're not a partisan committee we want what's best for the town so anyway so so your point of selling ourselves to our new governance all right that's that's a good okay we'll we need to figure that out and like I say I'd make an argument for maintaining geography as part of it um yes chris oh I was waving to someone who was leaving I'm sorry and I need to take my leave of the meeting I apologize for having to do this but I'll catch up with everybody the next time around thank you oh and Bernie thank you for your your input into the charge I think I accepted them all just as they were that's at first anybody accepting any other guy thank you except for the color of the font okay thanks thank you so we'll see you all right I'm giving myself a second appearance of this so I can see everybody and it um so so Guilford on this list how much how much have we missed I think I mean it's an interesting point that chris makes and and and and it really sort of feels like it is the case that people have been hunkering down and all that stuff that was sort of you know bubbling and churning um got quiet for a while you know the big the biggest thing and I mean speeds are starting to go up even though traffic is down people just don't want to abide by the rules that's the biggest thing people are complaining about right now yeah that's a perennial complaint so I heard a rumor that um uh the town council is being asked to reduce and this is a perennial request I think uh the speed limits everywhere it's not it's not um the law doesn't allow you to reduce speed limits everywhere they're being asked to look at the 25 mile an hour congested rule and to vote to make any street that doesn't have a posted speed limit 25 miles an hour is it the facto speed limit instead of 30 that's what they're being asked to do yeah we we know the rule and we understand how that works because we've had that discussion over the years but um is that is that really going to happen are they really considering it I think TSO will probably bring it up at some point but TSO has many many things it's talking about yeah one of which is the townwide parking I see all right um so so I'd like to spend a little time with this and maybe figure out how to deal with column g and thank you for updating us on the on the projects tab there's no column g don't worry about it I say I see that um but but um I think we gotta remember or make up new um our geographical description that we were going to replace that with because I still I still think that's important um especially we can figure out how to get it out of the political realm and into the geographical into the GIS realm so so we we did you touched on thank you for um the reviewing what's happening on north pleasant and east pleasant streets um and that that sounds like that's creeping along as it has been for ever um and so last but not least I wanted to take another swing at at the charge which I sent around to everybody um I'm less excited about it than I was two weeks ago because the next step seems to be having to go through paul and I'm a little bit afraid of that that um we might get far enough ahead that we spend a lot of effort that has to be undone when paul finally figures out what it is he's gonna have us do this is going back to what gilford was saying earlier um so I don't know if you've all had a chance to look at it um the um I got comments from from a bunch of you and did try to get them all folded in like I said in my letter um me and the cat trying to figure out how to get that all edited and um did you happen to send that to me too no I didn't chris because you know I just am forgetful I'd be interested and if you don't kick me in the shins every other week you know I'm just gonna forget that you know that you even exist so so you that's a good reason to come to the meetings um I will send it to you of course um so um maybe I'll let us all cogitate on that for until next time that is that what I'm interpreting by the the nodding in the silence the uh that sounds good the the next thing that I wanted to oh yes I mean if we're all concerned about what paul's gonna say why not invite him to the committee meeting and ask him I'm going to ask him and maybe that'll be part of it and maybe he would accept that so the the the reason that I haven't yet is as I was you know sitting down and trying to get the edits and talking around I sort of the buzz I got I realized that that we are getting way ahead of where they are where he is and um that's a good idea um which which I think is a nice segue to to uh what we can expect in our next meetings now our next scheduled one our next first and third is uh December 3rd oh okay that's that's easy um and I was going to um I wanted to do a couple of things uh well I have a couple suggestions to myself that I wanted to make to you all which is that uh I'm hopeful that we might have a chance to take a crack at the criteria matrix which we talked about earlier um I don't know you know Tracy Bruce and Eve if you'll be ready to to remind us or have something there to get us back up to speed on where that is um and I understand that that might be getting a little bit ahead of of you know where you want to be because you won't have had the the technical support in the time to really massage things but again I wanted to get that back into sort of our actual consideration um and I don't know if you would be ready or want to to consider on the third uh presenting something even if it's just the um the the three slides that you had for us um at the last meeting when we talked about this one January that was November the year ago um and there were a bunch of edits that you were taking away to do that might might be done to tidy it up in time for us so that was one thing I wanted to do the others I wanted to invite Doug to come and talk to us Doug Slaughter to come and talk to us if you would want that um I'm very cute two things I want to walk that relationship again and um I'm really curious as to how the last year has affected them what their planning is for the next year when we're still in this situation um he said hopefully hoping that there'll be enough actually vaccine around in two years that we're talking about something else besides pandemics um who is Doug Slaughter excuse me who is Doug Slaughter oh I'm sorry Doug Slaughter is the president president he's a board member he's the Amherst board member for the he's a boy yeah he had been chair for a while okay I remember yes I'm sorry I'm not being familiar uh yeah so I've invited if he's not the chair he's been that he was the chair of the the primary valley transportation authority um and um a year ago it's been that long um he did express interest in you know maintaining contact with us I remember yes I'm hopeful that um we can do that now before we disappear to the holidays and as part of generating some interesting minutes um so our next meeting is the third and is that right yeah um and then after that the 17th and then we probably won't meet again until the new year wow Tracy I'll email you about whether we can meet before then sure um and Bruce Bruce can come in here that'd be fine um we can get Francis back involved we had a number of grad students and uh this was great could we get him back involved that would be he's he's still around yeah so um is there anything else that anybody wants to toss on the table before I ask Bruce to make a motion Tracy oh I mean I just had a quick thing is that I'm in you know in terms of our relationship with the TSO and the council and so on so I mean I was one of the people who had reached out to council members and so on when we weren't meeting because I had gotten that email from Guilford saying well you might not exist anymore and when I had those conversations with I mean I'm of course I'm not part of many conversations that individual council members have and so on but not a single council member that I talked to said that they wanted to get rid of the tack and most of them were shocked the tack had not met um and so it's come up at the TSO like I know Erin you went to the TSO and even I attended some meetings um and so I think I mean what I heard from TSO is that they're really busy I mean town service is an outreach right that's not just about transportation I mean they're doing a lot of town services um and as an advisory committee we're just there to support the council and do the research that the council I mean the council or the TSO do not really have time for and the TSO members pretty unanimously seemed to feel like they do not want that responsibility where they're researching policies and so on like that I mean and they're focused particularly on more like day to day type services because they also they also review all that's the the town manager's appointments and like all these other functions um but it is I mean I would like us to go back to the TSO at some point and talk about like our relationship I mean there are some things that they're looking at which um do have you know longer transportation implications you know for transportation overall in town like I noticed like today actually the TSO is meeting at 430 and one of the things on their agenda was like a townwide parking policy I mean I don't know whether that's just like you know something kind of on the day to day services side in terms of like these are meters and you know but if it's like I mean the parking could have like some bigger ramifications and I know for example Guilford has brought us parking related topics before such as when the town had wanted to ban um parking on like the major streets like 24 7 right that you can't park on you know the streets that don't they don't have self-cousin on west street yeah I mean a whole bunch of them so I mean the other thing too is that while we weren't meeting like the town adopted the the council adopted that public ways policy it's a pretty comprehensive policy and um you know I don't know if there's room I mean there's nothing mentioned in the public ways policy now for both like short term changes to the public way or longer term changes or like permanent road and sidewalk closures and so on where there's any consulting with committees and I think that that's that's an important that's an important omission I guess that there are no committee and I don't know but it was deliberate um but I think it it's I mean like what Guilford is saying is that they don't know and Chris they don't know what to do with the committees I think it's only it's only 53 Chris it's not quite 60 um but you know what to do with the the dozens of committees that we have sure and um so part of our work and your suggestion to go to the TSO is spot on is to explain to them and it's kind of a weird role for an advisory committee to be in which is to advise the people that are supposed to be advising on how they might get advice from us rather than the other way around but that's that's that is a an irony which which keeps me up at night and I'm happy to be tackling it sounds like an open-ended charge to me right well so and this this is yeah exactly and um so um then this is why I want to engage Paul and this is why you know the idea is to to sort of continue rolling our projects along as a demonstration of what we might be able to do I don't think this is futile I think this is all very useful and I might even suggest that it is at the town council's peril to put us aside permanently that would not go over well in many quarters and just Tracy one of the things that that that I'm working around is that there are two counselors who have been active have been talking to me about you know making us go away they've not been effective in convincing any of their colleagues as far as I can tell but I know the sentiment is there um sort of beyond head scratching what do we do with them but really that you know they're they're the senses is that we're imposing we're we're we're wanting to take away some of their authority some of their responsibility which is not the case at all um and that's part of part of what a part of you know how we've been trying to frame the discussion and process so yes thank you it's a good it's a good idea it's well well taken and and you bet we'll be in front of the TSO I don't know if we will be there I don't know I'd love to bring all of us to it instead of just you know you and me I think that would be pretty impressive may I say something yes please so I wanted to respond to something Tracy said which I think you know back in the spring when everything was shut down and Paul was trying to figure out well what can we let go ahead what what do we absolutely need to go ahead absolutely made the decision that only permit granting boards and committees would be meeting for a certain period of time and that was because of town resources being pretty limited and the IT department was very stretched thin trying to jump up and forth between all these meetings so that's that was the reason why you initially you know weren't allowed to meet for several months so I just wanted to share that it wasn't that people back then thought that you were not useful it was that they really were focusing on only the committees and boards that were permit granting of course I mean but I think that even you know one some of the other I mean I understand that completely and it's amazing what the town has done it actually provides so much citizen access like the fact that people can sit at home and like you know be part of any meeting which you could never you used to have to go to town hall and sit there for I mean it is incredible and all the meetings are recorded and I think thank you Amber but the questions came up just about you know when some of the other committees so we're meeting the ones that aren't permitting you know climate action had been meeting for like quite a few months and I mean I think you know some on our you know our email exchanges with each other like the dog park committee I mean there were a number of committees meeting and so it was just kind of I mean of course I'm like you know obsessed with transportation because I do it professionally but I mean it just seemed like we were also important and as Kim said like we've been here the whole time you know we can so yeah I mean I the point is well taken is that doing permits and so that we were put in and since then I mean clearly we're being supported there's Gilbert there's Chris they're all helping us out do our thing and and for you know we understand that and appreciate that that that's a real resource and Amber thank you Amber did I have to say Amber? Yeah and she's not in her car yeah you're not in your car I missed the drum set already um any event yes so that this is yeah this is where we're at um and I think I think it'll be okay we're doing okay yes Kim I make a motion that we um are done for tonight thank you Kim thank you all we'll see you in a couple of weeks um further notes on on any