 What about limited English proficiency? English is the second language. We have students involved in that as well. Yeah, I think we have close to 70. How is their integration? That must be a bigger challenge in a sense. I think it probably depends on the student. I mean, I know we've got good support. I think we're adding a little more support. But I think, by and large, we do a pretty good job of that program. Is there a statewide initiative on that that we're factoring into? I know there is a statewide element to it. I'm not sure exactly how the mechanics are. Which brings us straight to special needs. What's going on with special needs these days? It's different than in the past. The state has passed a new law that basically allows for more flexible spending around special needs. That's going to start to affect us in the next few years. What does that mean? I was listening to it, and it sounded like jargon. In practical terms, what does that mean? I think in practical terms, it means that resources had to be slotted in very specific ways. So we get more flexibility. So we get more flexibility. To, for instance, if, say there's a, and this might be an imperfect example, a special needs instructor in a classroom that's giving instruction that could be valuable to a student who doesn't qualify for an IEP, but might be on a 504. What is a 504? What is an IEP? An IEP is an individualized education plan, which is for. Doesn't every student have one of those? Those are personalized learning plans, which is different. This is for students who are at a certain level of performance that indicates that they need true intervention and true special help. A 504 plan is for a student who has shown a learning disability, but is still performing at a level where they, at a level high enough where they don't qualify for an IEP. So with really slotted spending, you could have an instructor who is providing instruction for a student on an IEP, which qualifies for certain federal aid and state aid. That could benefit a student who does not qualify for an IEP, but could really benefit from that instruction in a way that wouldn't at all detract from the instruction given to the student on the IEP. Right now there's a lot of circumstances where that instructor is not able to give instruction to that second child. So by increasing flexibility, we could find situations like that where we could meet more needs with a similar expenditure of resources. While we're dealing with IEPs, let's return back to the achievement gap for students on free and subsidized food, food stamps and the like. That gap has been persistent for decades. This board has said we want to say time out, we want to take a new look at this. What is the new look? Well, I think mostly we've really asked Libby to look at ways to do that by tightening systems at the schools, by giving support that we need to help those students access their education and achieve at the levels we want them to achieve. I think Libby's done a really good job of working within the schools, working with teachers to tighten those systems. And we started to make more investments in literacy coaches, math coaches, special education providers, and I think deploy them a little more strategically to start to give those students the support that they need to reach a level of achievement that is gonna allow them to succeed a lot. When we talked a while back about Matt McClain and his community-based learning, there's a role for our community on the other side of that, providing opportunities for the youth. Is there a role for the community at large in terms of helping the achievement of these students? Is Libby writing in a role? We have the in-school people who are being redeployed. Is the school board thinking about a role for the community to volunteer and actually lend a hand in boosting this? Well, I think certainly, community members do great things like participate in the community-based learning program. Those opportunities are being accessed by all students. But this particular group, has Libby connected with the Kellogg-Hubert Library, Children's Library, to bring in Beyond Union Elementary, to give them that strong foundation where it's less needed as you go up the ladder. I mean, I think she definitely is having those conversations, how specifically, but I think you're right. I think it's even, to be totally honest, I think there's only so much any school district can do to totally achieve, to cozy achievement. Which is why you said, which is why you said you can go to the outer community. Yeah. For help. Yeah, it's not just the outer community, but it's the state house, it's Congress, it's, you know, when you have families in crisis that don't have health care, that have major addiction problems, that are struggling to pay the rent, that are under incredible stress. But that almost sounds like why try it all. Well, because I think there is a lot of school. I mean, the school has a role and the school needs to do all it can do, but I think it's naive to think that the school allows you. Is there a metric of success where you know Libby is doing well? You know, in terms of closing, if that gap is never likely never to close, which I think is realistic, how do you know that we're having an impact? I think you're right that without a full societal effort that getting that gap to close completely is unrealist of probably applying the sky goal. I think we can, I think the school can play a role in closing it somewhat. And I think when we start to see that gap narrow, we'll know where at least the district is doing its part. And I think the district always needs to strive to do more on that. But I think there's, I think the district alone could narrow that gap. And the board is watching that metric? Yeah, we definitely are watching that metric. You had spoken of that before that you asked for segmented information. Yeah, no, we have definitely asked for the type of information that lets us know how various subgroups are doing and Libby is a data-driven person, so. I'm gonna ask you about a couple of projects that are being discussed. A language, a language immersion track in the elementary school. Where is that project right now? What's the timeline on that that the public can expect a more detailed conversation on that? First of all, what is it? So it's, it would basically be a program that would provide that basically would turn one of the five kindergarten classes into a full language immersion class. In what language? That would have to be determined. It would most likely be Spanish or French for a variety of reasons. But basically it would be kindergarten in that language, in a world language, in likely Spanish. And when the child graduates from kindergarten, what happens? They continue, that class stays as a cohort, and they continue up through the elementary grades. What happens when there's attrition and you fall beneath the level of the other classes? Because you can't bring in kids in third grade who haven't had that preparation in kindergarten, first and second. Yeah, no, you wouldn't, again, that cohort would stay together. There's, yeah, the programs that have, the schools that are doing that program now, really put a significant amount of vetting to make sure that the children and the families of those kids are know what they're getting into and are committed to it. So we were coming back circular on the kids who are on food stamps whose parents wouldn't vet well for that program. Could this be an upper middle class cohort? I think they could vet well. I mean, essentially it's one knowing you're in it. And then, basically, it's not something that's favorite for kids who have reading or language disabilities. So we're getting into the quest. Again, is this an upper middle class cohort? Because kids who are of lower income families are more likely to have academic problems in reading and math. My understanding is that, again, and we have listened to the study committee so I don't want to speak before, but it would be designed to ensure that there is a proportional number of students from free and reduced lunch slots and that there's an effort made to ensure those are all filled. How do we know that this is successful, this project? Because other schools have done it and it's been very successful in teaching kids language. Actually, the test scores of some of these students tend to be quite high because... Again, if it's an upper middle class program, you would think they'd be high. What if a student... But it's not, even with... What if a kid is from a lower income family, gets into this and has academic problems, are they dropped out of this program? If they test poorly? I think they're given the support that they otherwise would be given. I mean, the idea is that you're... This is not a language class. This is kindergarten, this is first grade, this is second grade, this is third grade. It just happens to be... Right, but there is a learning component in reading and math, a strong learning component. If they're not able to grasp that learning component reading in English, in a Spanish class, would they be dropped from the class? I don't know. Again, we're in a study... And I'm just curious... Well, we're in a study committee and... When will the community... When do we think we'll implement this? Well, again, it's at a study level. So what we've committed to is a study. They will come out with a report that'll answer I think a lot of the questions you're asking. What I'm speaking to is the experience that I've heard from other schools. And then we'll decide whether it's a good fit for us. Could this be something that will roll out in the fall? Or are we talking about a year from the fall? It's not gonna happen in the fall. Okay. It would have to be in the budget and we'd have to have plans for it from the fall. The earliest it would happen would be 2021-22. What are the fiscal implications of this? How many new teachers do we anticipate hiring? Or we don't know. We don't know. Okay. I think the idea is that it would be you'd have the same amount of teachers but you'd have to hire a different set of skills. Yeah. You'd basically be hiring not a Spanish teacher but a kindergarten teacher who could teach kindergarten in Spanish. Can we find one? Well, that's why you use the language like Spanish or French because if you're teaching it and Romanian or something, your pool gets pretty small. Main Street Middle School, let's talk about that. Yes. What is the talk on Main Street Middle School? What's going on on that issue? So we've put together a study committee to really look at the future of that building and what we want to do with it and there's no predetermined outcome. As you know, that's an older building. It's a building that can be expensive to run because it is an older building. Some of it's... A building we've poured a lot of money into in the last decades. Yeah. So really taking a look back and saying, what do we want to do? We want to keep it as is. Maybe do a better job of keeping a fund for maintenance so we can keep on top of it a little better. Are we talking about another middle school? And do we have enough students in the pipeline to support another middle school? I certainly think that one of the possibilities I might look at is at least theoretically is, do we construct another middle school? Do we do a renovation of that school that would keep the facade, keep the bones but maybe bring some of the systems up to date in a way that would be pretty comprehensive? Assuming we did that. Yes. What are the implications long term of U32, Washington Central, when they pull themselves together and Montpelier sending students back and forth, as was discussed in the past so that those middle school students would go to Montpelier High School along with the middle school portion of U32 and the high school students would go to U32. We'd have much more critical mass at the high school level for offering more course offerings. If we were to invest that heavily in that building, wouldn't that foreclose that forever? The first answer is no, I don't think so. The second answer is I actually think it might be beneficial for that and here's why. Because if you look at, if we've merged those two districts and this is a very hypothetical conversation. Very hypothetical conversation and you're looking for efficiencies in terms of buildings, that's like the third or fourth largest building we have. So you merge the districts, you've got three or four really tiny schools. So does that have to be enrolled school? No, it could be say a second elementary school. So maybe you do something where some East Montpelier kids, some Montpelier kids go to that as an elementary school and instead of closing- Well, you talk about the thorniness, trying to close one of those small elementary schools which brings us to Roxbury. Well, what would you do? I mean, if you're merging on the idea of efficiency of scale, do you close one of your largest buildings or do you close the small expensive ones? Are we gonna close Roxbury? Huh? There is no plans to close Roxbury. Is that an efficient run school? Is that 40 kids in that school with a number of teachers? Is that an efficient operation? Yeah, right now it is certainly not our most efficient school. I think that- Is it our least efficient school? It is. I think per pupil it is our least efficient school. I think that's fair to say. What is the rationale besides it makes the community feel better about itself for keeping that school open and not just sending those kids to Union Elementary? Well, I mean, there's a few. For one, I'm not sure there's room at Union Elementary for them. Two, it's important to that community. It's a good school and it's a good anchor of that community. We didn't make a promise to Roxbury that that would be open. We made a promise that it would be open for a certain number of years. Yes, yes, and I think, you know, I think one of the conversations going forward will be how can we make that school more efficient? I mean, it's a fantastic building. So how can we make it more efficient and how can we satisfy the needs of the Roxbury community? I think there are creative ways to do that. Now, I've heard rumblings that conceivably because it's a good facility. It's in some ways a better school than Union facility-wise. I'd heard rumblings of a magnet school. I think that's certainly on the table. I mean, could we do something? Not explain what a magnet school is. Well, it would be a school that would have a particular theme. For instance, and this is, again, purely hypothetical, we could kind of model it after some outdoor modes of education where we have a more kind of nature-based, interactive-based education philosophy that appeals to, I think, a lot of parents in this community and that could be a place where children from both communities could go. So that would increase the number of students who are using that school, make it a model for perhaps other districts, and potentially give a place where we're actually losing students and when we lose students, it hurts our tax base. The type of students who might be inclined, or parents who might be inclined to send their kids to Waldorf might be very attracted by... So that discussion is actually in the background, at least being considered. Yeah, I think tackling the issue of how to make Roxbury a stellar school, I mean, it's a good school now. I think it could be a special school. Will that issue actually surface? Or will we simply say, hey, we promised you you'd be around and you're gonna be around forever? Will there be an issue? I think that issue will surface. I think that, yeah, I think we have an administration that's committed to excellence and not ignoring things. And I think there are ways to make that school a special school that works financially. And I don't think that will be ignored. I think that conversation will occur. Class sizes at Mount Pilyer High School. That was on the agenda again this year. It's on the agenda every year. What's the current status of that and the current thinking? Keeping in mind that some of those small classes are absolutely necessary for advanced placement purposes, for making your schedule mesh if you're trying to get into a better college and the like. Yeah, really, I think the apex of that conversation was a few years ago when enrollment at Mount Pilyer High School was significantly less than it is now. There are very few classes right now that still have a handful. A handful. And I think as long as enrollment continues to be where it is right now when Libby rolls out the class size list, there's not a lot of classes you can point to and say, well, that's really tiny. What about state house? What are you tracking in the state house? What kinds of bills are there right now that the board has on their radar? Besides the question of needs-based financing in the school, where districts that have more poor kids would have a different cut of the formula to account for the fact that there's more poor kids. So anything else at the state level that you guys are watching? Yeah, I probably should have more of an eye on the state house in this session than I do, but there haven't been a lot of huge rumblings. Obviously, we're very interested in the healthcare and other things, but. What about that notion of if you have more poor kids then your district would get a better cut in the formula. If you have fewer, then your district would get a worse cut because it's a limited pie. I mean, I think there's a lot of merit to that idea. Would it hurt us? I mean, we're 20% at Union Elementary. I have not the numbers, but we are certainly a district that has fewer, fewer and reduced lunch kids than a lot of other districts. That said, that the educational needs of kids that are not performing at certain levels is higher to really close the gap. It takes resources. So I mean, that's a fight that will be going for a few sessions. That's not going to resolve this year. And then two more questions I'll let you go. I realize you're getting tortured by this because you're the board president and because you're the only serious real incumbent that's running again. So it's difficult to get this background history from other people who have other strengths they're bringing to the board, but not the institutional history. What's flexible pathways that community-based learning is talking about? Flexible pathways is, and Maba claim could explain it a lot better than I can. It's the idea that there's kind of different ways to learn different skills. And really being, I think, a tune to the fact that if you were taking an apprenticeship at Bear Pond or something, thinking about the skills that you're really learning, learning persistence and grit and interaction with the interpersonal skills of being in public and interacting with someone in a business setting where it's different than with a cohort of peers. So thinking about different ways to get skills. What's the big challenge coming up that the board isn't facing right now? Is there anything that is looming on the horizon that you can see that's an emerging issue? Yeah, I think you touched on it. I think kind of the future of a couple of our buildings are, you know, there's nothing urgent there, but I think we want to be thoughtful about that. I believe it was the last budget. It might be wrong. It might be two budgets ago. You put together the Revolving Capital Fund. Yes. Was that the last budget? Yes, and we have that on again. And the idea there is really, I think, to, you know, to not get to a situation. You have to go to the bonding, to the major bonding. Exactly. And the final question, the mudlots. What is the mudlot and what is its fate? So the mudlot is what has been kind of a de facto parking area on the side of the high school by Smiling Auditorium where they put Circus Smurcus in that area. You know, it's an eyesore. It's likely a source of pollution to the river. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna eventually turn that into, like, recapture it as green space. What will happen to that parking, sir? You obviously have a demand for parking, otherwise it wouldn't be there. It wouldn't be a spillover. I think we're going to figure out other ways to get parking in, you know, I think as a city as a whole, we, you know, there's, you know, for big events, if the parking garage goes in, you know, that'll serve. It's not that far of a walk. It's really only spillover. It's, you know, I think, you know, it might encourage some people to, you know, bike to a spring or fall or summertime event when they might drive. Now I'm gonna hit you with a hard one. Since we last talked a year ago, you know, last school year, any major teacher retirements for those of us who live in town and had kids in the schools? Well, Pam Arnold is retiring. Pam Arnold being? Pam Arnold, the principal of Maysburg Middle School, and she's been there for 14 years and I think has really, you know, done a lot to lead that school. And we lost a principal at Montpelier High School. Yes, Mike McCraith left last summer and he obviously was fantastic and did a great job of leading that school and, you know, with the Black Lives Matter flag, you know, gaining some national recognition for his leadership. Yeah, and we have a fantastic new principal at Montpelier High School. Who is that? René DeVore, and she comes from Illinois, but she's fantastic and she's, I think, doing a really good job of picking up where Mike came from. Any other central office hires in the last year? We actually have, we will be seeing three new ones. Oh, we picked up, didn't we pick up a print? No, our principal at Union was there last year. He was there last year. Any central office hires? We obviously have to, we're hiring to replace Pam and Monday the two final candidates will be coming in for a long day of interviews. We're gonna be hiring a new principal for the Roxbury Village School and we really anticipate that that principal will be part of the conversation about how to take that school to the next level. Yeah, the next level. And Mary Lynn Dean, who has been the special education director for the last several years and has really done a fantastic job of meeting the needs of kids and she's a fantastic manager. She came in, I think, immediately solved. A number of thorny issues. A number of thorny issues and saved the district a lot just in terms of being efficient and finding the right grants and making sure that. What's happening with her? She is going to Chitton County. She lives in Chitton County. She found another special education director position where she does not have to commute. So unfortunately we're losing her but we'll be replacing her. So she's a soul in that sailing on. Yes. Jim, I wanna thank you for your time. Again, this has been an extremely long show simply because this is the state of the school district right now in a sense. Yeah, no, I appreciate it. And I appreciate you watching this show and I hope, as I said at the beginning, that you'll watch the other shows, watch the candidates, not only for the city but the school candidates. All the school candidates will be here. Watch Libby's discussion of the budget as well as Jim's discussion, or I'm sorry, Bill's discussion of the city budget. And thank you so very much for watching. One final point. Please do get out and vote on Town Meeting Day. It's extremely important. Civic engagement is what makes us a community. So thank you much for watching. Have a good evening.