 Oh, you know, I was in rehearsal for Welcome to the Wars, which had been done by the fabulous people. Well, all kinds of great students, but I was just in LA, and I was trying to get our stage manager when we came back from our break to say, we're black. But she's, you know, she's the union, and you know, she plays by the rules. That's why she's so cool. Anyway, I was super black. I'm not the union. I am the union. I'm not the union. So, um, here's, I hope that was fun. I had a really good time. Anybody like, feel like, oh, I got something to do. Carol. Yeah, you remind me of something. So, man, Alexa. Alexa. You always have it. I always have it. You just have to remind me where it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Cole. He's like, yeah, never know. You sure? What's your name? Michael. Michael's like, I got something to do. It's amazing. Well, yeah, it was good. You got your Legos on your, can we see this? Is this like promotion of Legos? No. It's not. It's not. You're not getting paid for that? All right. I will get paid for that. That's cool, man. No, I get it for free. I just made it this weekend. You did? You made it? Well, I mean, the... Yeah, you made that computer? I made this computer. It's not a Lego computer. That's cool. Okay. Anybody have any answers, questions, problems, issues, solutions, and quotes? No words here. Yeah, Adam. The thing that I was working on today was kind of an old piece that I wrote a couple years ago. Like, I was kind of coming back to it and revising it a little bit and cleaning it up. I guess I'm interested to know, like, how do you feel about, like, going back to old work? Because sometimes I can find that as over the years, your kind of preferences change, your writing changes. So, like, do you think it's, you know, it... Yeah, that's the question. Well, yes, good question. How are you feeling? I'm just curious. I'm feeling kind of... Like, back when you were... How old were you when you wrote this? I mean, like, I guess, like, 20, yeah, like a year ago. Like, it wasn't that long ago. But, like, it was long ago enough that I've, like, changed in my writing style. Right. And I don't know, I just kind of, I'm kind of like, I remember this being better than I think. Then, you know, like, and just kind of surprised that I, like, kind of let things go, certain things go. Or, you know, like, kind of wondering, like, would I write this today? And, you know, so kind of wondering, like, if I am, like, a different, like, if I've changed too much to kind of really get back into this piece. Go up again. That's a really good question. So, then there, I think there's, there is one question, there are several answers. Hillary, just saying, I didn't say Hillary's answer, I just said... I'm just reading your literature. I know, we can get in fights. So, the first answer is, the first question is, like, how do you go back to stuff you wrote a year ago or when you were 20? It's quite hard. Okay. And the second question is, how do you go back to stuff at all? Right? And so, the first thing is, I would answer, maybe the two questions are the same answer, with compassion. So, sometimes we have stuff that we wrote maybe a year ago or 10 years ago or whatever, and we haven't finished. We really, I mean, we haven't gotten to the end. That's why I mean why we haven't finished, right? You haven't gotten to the end, so you think, oh, how do I, well, I really like this. I haven't yet gotten to the end. How do I go back with compassion? Sometimes we have things that we have gotten to the end. Maybe they've been produced or published or whatever. And you hear the stories of those writers who go back in their rewritings, James Joyce, I think, did that. And other writers that we might know, who I'm your friend, they go back and they rewrite, you know, constantly. Just doing filing for some of the wars. You know, we premiered it. It's published. You know, I added these nine words. I told the lead actor, Sterling, I'm giving you nine new words. He's like, what? Why? Why? No, he's like, of course he thinks it's about him. Well, I'm sorry, because he thinks it's about doing a good job. I'm like, well, I love you. I'll give you nine words. But it's all just with compassion, right? So you go back to with a kindness to your young yourself. And if you think like, oh, this is as good as I thought. All those questions and values get let all that go. And you have to just look at the work in front of you and say, what does the work mean? First thing you know, it's an easy to get to the finish line. That's your job. That's your only job. Well, it was a short story that I finished, but I never really did anything with it. So I was looking at it again to see if I wanted to try something like I was revising it and I was kind of like... Yeah, yeah, but you haven't finished it. If it still has to be revised. Yeah, I would say that. If you're going back to a place where you're like, yay, I mean, I have now in eight books, I'm not going back and rewriting them. I consider them finished. I'm done. I'm on to the thing I'm writing now, right? That's what I mean. So if I'm still revising it, then I'm really not finished, right? So with the kindness, I would say, we have to go back to our old work that we still have to work on kindness. Even our old work that we don't have to work on kindness. Also, phrases like people say you have to make your place actor-proof. I'm still learning that word around. And that's an interesting concept. It's an interesting concept. What does it mean? It's like, well, it's like actors will always get your meaning and get it right. Great. That's cool. Or director-proof. So they'll always do a brilliant production of your brilliant play, for example. If you write parallel plays or if you write screenplays that are handing them around. But we've all seen, and if you haven't, they really showed a really bad production of a Shakespeare play. And they didn't know that the concept of making something proof of anything is just, you know, the desire of a worried person, you know. And I was playing around with the idea the other week that perfection is the desire of a small line. I keep saying that. I'll say that to myself. Anybody else have a question? So does that help? Yes. Be kind. Be kind. Be kind. Like you're talking to a child or a kitten. You know, your work is like. Meow. You hate you, right? Yeah. Hi. Things are not working. Right. So Alicia, I'm guessing, hi. Does this say where she's from? Or just the land of Twitter? Hi, Alicia. So I'm guessing you've written something. And it's that moment when you read it and you go, how do I assess it? That's such a nice word. How do I assess it? How do I determine its value? Right? Whether it's ready to go out into the world or needs more work. So you have to develop, it's a skill, and we develop, as we continue to work, we develop what anyway I think called the built-in shockproof chip detector. Right? Which is really great. And so you develop this, it's like a muscle. You've got your writing muscles together or your creation muscles, creative muscles together. And now you have to develop or continue to develop that muscle, which lets you know when something is ready to be released back into the wild. If you've ever seen the movie, I can remember it, Born Free or something. Or Free Willy. Try the same thing. I have never seen Free Willy. But Born Free, I think they capture, they catch the lion and they find the lion, you know, and then they nurse it back to health. And then there's a moment when they know it's ready to be let go. That's the kind of muscle that you want to develop. Right? And it takes practice. And it's a combination of getting certain kinds of feedback from your colleagues, your trusted collaborators, and it's something you know inside. And I usually trust my insides of the world. I trust my collaborators. But it's something you've got to work on. So if you're still looking at something and feeling like, I don't know yet, I don't know yet, I don't know yet. Maybe give it to your favorite trusted collaborator or friend and have them read and see what they think. And at a certain point you've got to risk it. You've got to let it go, see what happens. So it's a muscle that you've got to develop. It's a good question. Along with myself. And I'll leave it to them. Hopefully that helps. It's a muscle. Can you say thank you? No. And where are you from, Melissa? Where are you from? I want to know where you're from. I'm just curious. Born in Ohio. Wow. You can cover the entirely. Thank you for joining us. So anybody else? CA. So I just finished a draft of something. Okay. Because I was so in it. It's hard to eject. And I've been told many times that it's important to eject, to take that break. Yes. Yes. How long does that break need to be? And like is there anything you would advise about just what that should be or like what you do? Yeah. To sort of. Because I think at least in my eye, I need the space just so that I don't look at it the way I looked at it before, which was. Right. But I don't know. I don't know how to negotiate that. No. That's a great question. That kind of tells us at least this question. How long does a break need to be? How many pages is it? 80? Yeah. Not long enough. I need more. No, no, no. You need a break. Okay. You're telling me it's not long enough, sister. I mean, I was like, I was going to be like, yeah, 80 pages is good. 80 pages is really good. 80 pages is 80 more than nothing, which is what you have to be starting with. I'm like, 80 pages is great. Okay? So my question is, I'm thinking, maybe there's some mathematical formula that would, you know, and maybe there's not one. So half of 80 is 40, half of 40 is 20, half of 20 is 10. I'm just trying to think. Because I would say about a week is good. But I think, you know, so I'm trying to think of a mathematical formula for all the things. But maybe like, what? An eighth? A 10? A 10. That's it, right? Okay. A 10 of the number of pages. Maybe that's a good rule. Because if I'm, for example, I'm writing something that's one page long, I can take a day away from it and let my subconscious mind do a lot of the writing for me before I come back to it the next morning. So I often do that. So I write something in the morning and let it bake or cool, actually come back to it the next morning, like that. So that's one, you know. So how about a week? Does that feel good? Does that feel like, you want to get to the point almost where, and then you have to hypnotize yourself. Because when you pull it out of the drawer or wherever it is, you have to kind of like, be in kind of a place where you kind of have to gossip that you wrote it. Yeah, you can do that. Professional. Do you print it out before you, when you're finished? When you're finished. Page 80, yay! Do you print it out? Ah, this is good. Print it. Anyway, we never print it before. I mean, I do like, like tin trash without printing it. It feels like, why have I had a problem? Because you need to actually print it out. Print it out, put it in a folder, put it in a drawer, or in a place. It's not moving at it. Let it do that magical thing that it does, like, seems to do when you're not looking at it. Or that children do before they're born. You know? A week, I think. Try a week. If it seems like, ah! You're still like this, you know what I mean? You mean maybe it's a little longer. Is that how it works? It should be fun. So you pull it out and you go, wow! Look at this! It's always better than you think. It's always like, woohoo! It's like, woo! What did you think? Yeah, right! So like a week and we're like, woohoo! It changes! Yeah! We've got Crystal and Adam. Crystal! Is it Crystal from New Jersey? Um... You know? Yeah. No, maybe it's just some... Yes, she is excited. Yeah! Um, she says hi. Hi! I'm revisiting a play from a reading and have still not found comfort in my ending even after almost three years. Oh, wow! Um, where do I go from here in trying to get an ending that makes me satisfied as a storyteller? Right. So Crystal has a... She's been working on a play and she is still not satisfied with her ending act of three years. Crystal is a woman of patience. She's 42. Crystal's got children. She lives in New Jersey. She works hard. And so she's... So it's not for wanton... For wanton's effort, right? I'm guessing Crystal might... I imagine you were working on this really hard. So I would say... So maybe you tried this already. I don't know. What I do is I write down ten stupid endings. They have to be stupid and you have to write them down. Ten stupid endings for your play. Maybe you've already tried this. If you've tried this, try again. Ten new stupid endings. And pick one. And say to yourself, that's good enough. And what's interesting is that that's what we... You know, you have kids, Crystal. So you know, those of us who have children, we know that, you know, you watched your kids learn to talk. I mean, I know it was only Durham. I'm guessing. My child's so old, children are like this. Right, Carol? Definitely. They do that for a long time. They just make sounds like that. You know, the appropriate gestures. And you realize, oh, this is how you learn to talk. Right? And guess what? This is also how you write a draft. Blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah. And then the right words come when you're ready. After a certain amount of work is done. So try 10 stupid endings, Crystal. Yeah, 10 stupid endings. Pick one and go for it. And just be like, that's the ending. Because the great thing about a play, as you know, you can take it into rehearsal. And, you know, hey, you might discover wonderful things in rehearsal. You know? There's like a phrase. I think it's a real phrase. I don't know. It's called good-good-nook. Which means good enough. And sometimes, you know what? That's what we do. It's good enough. It's good enough. And we go forward with that. Anybody else? Yep. Yes, Rob. So the work I'm doing, it's a lot of collaboration. Yes. Do you have advice as to how to deal with collaborators when you feel that they're going to the same well too often and what they're writing about or how they're writing about it? Or if they're not, even worse than that, not bringing things that are kind of apart or working at all. How do you encourage them to or facilitate something that will make it so everybody's kind of planned? Right. At the same level? Yeah. That's tricky. That's hard. So Rob is working with some collaborators right now. And, yeah, it happens that sometimes the people we work with aren't bringing their, what you feel is their A-game. Or it's the A-game they brought five years ago. And they're bringing the same as A-game, the same A-game, whatever it's called. Plus their hearts. They're doing the best they can with the tools they have, but you're wanting their 2016 A-game. That's tricky. It's hard because it goes into the realm of and this is very different from when you're working with an actor or when you're working with designers. You know, you want them to step up with a plate and respond to the work that, the blueprint of which you have in your hand. So it's very different. You're doing like kind of devised work. You were saying? Yeah. Right. So it's tricky because we're kind of talking about controlling people outside of ourselves. It's also tastes, too. It's also tastes, too. It's also tastes. Right. So it's weird. It's like, I think when you collaborate with people, you have to encourage them as much as you can through positive, you know, it's like, you have kids. Do you know any children? I don't have my own kids, right? But you know, it's like this. If you scream at them and yell at them and kick them, you know. But if you, if it's this and you're encouraging them, that's how they're going to learn to walk, right? So if you're yelling at your collaborator, making them feel bad and all that kind of stuff, just like yourself is a compassion thing. You don't have that. And I know you do. Then they will hopefully rise to the occasion. But you have to say to yourself, they are the who they are. Who they are. They're occasioned. They're a game 2016. Might not be what you hoped for. And so then you say, perhaps it's time to collaborate with different people. You know, no harm, no foul. It's just like, you need people who are going to collaborate with you as a way that you need to be a collaborator. And sometimes you say, well, we've worked together for five years. And I go, for a minute, I'm going to scream over here. I've got to focus on this over here. I can feel a fan. It's not like a group. Right. Right. I mean, it's just encouraging people to… Right. …就可以 new stuff… Right. … encouraging people to expand their perspectives and look at what all that is and not discouraging them when they're, like, when they fall down. Right. Right. Exactly. But at the end of the day, sometimes you think, you might have to get some different people within, I mean, I'm all into, but at a certain point you can't control what other people are doing. And, you know, you're going to have to take what they can bring. I work a lot. I mean, I collaborate once I get to the rehearsal room or on set or whatever, but the rain, you know, I work a lot. So, because I like to get the core thing down, before I go into, like, even at the band or something, I like to get the shit together. So, I mean, we all kind of... Oh, I see, I see. Because it's like a pitch. Right, I see. It's exciting. It's really exciting. You guys are a great group, really. You guys are a great group. In the future, yeah. In the list. Like, second... Oh, she says collaboration. How do I give my story over to my director? How do you give it... How do you give it to your player? Do you give it to them? Like, you know, when you write something, it's like, oh, that's my baby and you're doing it wrong. Like, that other girl, something somebody says. Oh, that's my baby and you're doing it wrong. Like, the actor proof thing. The actor proof thing, yeah. Don't look at it. I mean, yeah, you can worry about that. I mean, you can either do your best, you can do your best work, and then let it go. Or do your best work and spend the rest of your time worrying about it. So... You said it doesn't exist. Who made you say that? Because that's originally what you were saying. It doesn't exist. Why do you think it doesn't exist? What doesn't exist? Oh, I thought you were going to say it doesn't exist. Did you hear that? The actor proof thing. Yeah. I'm just saying, I've seen brilliant plays done very poorly. I mean, you know, as anybody has seen the bad production of King Lear, I have. Yeah, I think that's pretty good play. Oh, okay. So trying to make it so that there will never be mistakes made in a future production of your play is, oh, it's a big job. People do that job. People will assign themselves that task, but I would rather focus on other things. So I would suggest to Crystal, do your very best work, write your King Lear play. Boom, hit that part. And, you know, be present at the first production, certainly. And sure, if you need to be present at every other production after that, that's your choice. If that's your life that you want to live, that's your life. You know? But again, this is the next stage. Rob is talking about this collaboration, and we want to be able to give ourselves over to our collaboration, except whatever game they got. It's like being married, or dating, or having kids. Crystal, you know that. You have to work with what they got, you know? And in the arts, if you're not liking what they're bringing, then you can find other collaborators. You can't turn in your children. You can't turn them into things like frogs. No, you can't do that. So, you know what I mean? So, we have to kind of, we have to give it over. Do your best work. Make sure it's solid, Crystal. You have to make sure it's solid, because you develop your built-in shock pressure detector, and then it's time to give it away. You give it away. I mean, I was in the rehearsal for three days. And now I'm here. I'm not sitting and looking over Joe Bonnie's shoulder. You're going to get it right? No. I'm here. I'm here. Yay. Do you have specific goals annually? Annually. Yes, I do. Annually. And then I break it down. So, annually, like I want to... I could say I want to write more songs, I could say. Or I don't really set a number. I'm more kind of vague, but more songs. I show up for my songwriting every day or something like that. So, annually, I would suggest that you... Yeah, sure, it's good to create your goals. And goals. And annually it's tricky because people think, oh no, I missed it. New Year's like, eh, it's already March. Shit. Guess what? Annually can start today. You know, so annually starts today. You can have a New Year's resolution that begins today. You can also break it down a little bit and divide size pieces. So, Alicia, an annual goal, and then you can get a six-month goal, and you can get a three-month goal, and you can get a goal that goes month to month. That's very, very helpful. Also week to week, day to day. I do all that kind of groupie stuff to help me sort of keep my focus what's important to me. And to remember what's not so important. You know? So, sure, sure. I set all kinds of goals and things like that. I think it's good. It helps. Yeah, Alexis. It's like an antidote because of anecdotes. I promise myself if I don't have a question, I'm not going to just ask a question. But, so, I'm feeling like really good. I was like, oh, I've got this in the works, and that's coming up, and I keep, like, speaking life to those things. Right. But then that thing happens where you get on. And I'm trying to do this thing where I encourage myself from social media, but you get on social media. And I also, like, my main thing is supposed to be acting. Like, I love to act, and that's what I want to do. Right. And then I see my other actor friends actually doing stuff towards that. I'm like, oh, wait, I'm paying too much attention to this writing thing right now. My best friend had a phrase where it's like, oh, you're Chapter 30. Is somebody else's Chapter 6? And vice versa. So then, like, I think right now my biggest thing is wrestling with that jealousy of somebody else is doing the stuff that I should be doing right now while I'm doing other things. Sure. So what Alexis just said, I'm going to kind of rephrase what you said. So Alexis said, so I was writing and things are going really well, and I've got these projects that are good things. Now, I'm doing really well. I'm sort of feeling good about myself. And then, you know, I picked up the crack pipe. And, you know, it just fell to shit. I don't know what happened. But, you know, anyway, you know how social media puts crack pipe? It's bad. Your teeth are falling out. You're like, what the fuck is going on? It is, I mean, back in the, you know, back in the early beginnings of social media, I'm sure it was meant to be like, oh, let's be good. Let's share information. Not every comment. You know, you get on that shit. It's like, you might as well pick up the crack pipe. You might as well. And you can eat a big chocolate cake and feel shitty about yourself and watch really bad television and cry. So, yeah. So, yeah. So, like, I don't know. People are like, how's something going on? Oh, yeah. Have you seen, like, I'm sorry, I can catch that news about you or whatever you're doing. Oh, yeah. You're not on Facebook. I'm like, I'm on Facebook. I just never turn it on. Ever. Like, for the past, like, seven years. So, I'm missing all this stuff. But I can still manage to feel good about what I'm doing. It's not delusional. It's actually real. The way you feel about yourself after you finish those eight pages, that's what you'll feel. And the days that you need to watch TNs and you'll feel good, you know that you're having a problem. Let's see what, you know, all the shit is she... Yeah, it's like these markers, these, like, photos of, like, oh, I was on SNL last week or, like, oh, I just had this play produced. It's great. And I'm, like, I'm doing good stuff. That's, like, the rat race. That's the rat race. And not to, it's not for your friends or rat for posting their stuff. You know, they're proud of themselves too. But when you start comparing yourself to other people and feel the shitty about it, or feeling good about it, because you got eight pages, she don't got the 10. And that's the reverse of this same fucking crack pipe, right? I mean, so... Or, like, put the firewalls. It's like, I'm only gonna look at Facebook, like, once a week, right before I do something really fun, with real friends, who really like me. Real physical friends. You know what I mean? Like I said, with that kind of scenario, so that you, yeah, or, actually, that you turn, now you sort of put in, you build around that stupid thing that you're compelled to do, something positive and affirming. Jessica, how are you? Did you go to Chicago? I did go to Chicago, yeah. So... So, yeah. Maybe it was... It was fast. I'm putting two applications together now, one for the Suwani-Sewani right of conference, and one for a large play development. Cool. And I know that you've written a lot of grants, I mean, submitted to a lot of competitions, and been finalist in those competitions. What is that process like to create the strongest case for yourself? Right. This is the only question. We try to convey who you are on the page, or if you do video clips or whatever. Just, you know, once you start thinking, we talked about someone, but we before last, I can't remember her name. I should sit over there and share that. I don't know. We talked about... That's you. It's you without your hat. We talked about how to write. We were trying to figure out what the marketplace might want. Right? Yeah. No, no, no. Just do your thing. Do it as best you can. As long as you can. Be you. You do you. And, you know, if it works out that you get fabulous big and fabulous residency, great. And if it doesn't work out that you don't get fabulous big or fabulous residency, you're still fabulous. You know, I have a friend who recently attended a funeral of like the first chair oboist and something, like the Boston Center or something, someone wonderful, you know, a big brilliant musician back. And this guy remembered, he got my friend, remembered when he went to the audition for that first chair, he didn't get it. And he was crushed. But instead of being the first chair he felt that he became a world-renowned musician. Instead, traveling the world doing his thing. So, and he sat at the funeral going, huh, this could have been me up there in that box. And he said, I'm here. You know, my shit. And it really grew brilliantly, you know. So, this opportunity might work out. Am I not bad? This might not be. Struggling with the beginning was the first sort of 15 pages or so always feels clunky and super expositional. I haven't been able to get it to not feel like I'm just trying to funnel a lot of information to my audience. And it doesn't feel that natural. Even when I try to bring the exposition out through some business or a roundabout way, it always feels expolitional. Do we have advice on how to... Is it that one? Yeah. We were in class together last semester. I don't feel like... Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, how do you... What does your writing space look like? Do you write like anywhere? Or do you have your apartment? Do you have a certain place where you're always writing? Okay. Do you sit primarily? So, movement. So, and this might not make any sense. I don't know if it's going to work out. But like, you know the story already. You've been working on this play for a while. It's a beautiful play. You're going to find it. That I know. Number one. You've got to get off your butt and into the rest of your body. Right now, you're really into your butt. And that's fine. You need your butt to write. I do anyway. But you've got to get like... You've got to get moving. And it's not a... It could be. It's a play where the language is very alive. Okay. And the characters are really, really interesting. And really beautiful. So, you need to get in the body of... I can't remember the name. The girl or the daughter. And the next-door neighbor. And the folks who recently appeared. So, you need to get in their body. You're kind of just... Right? And you need to... Because she wants to study fabric design. Design, right? She's always... She needs to be more... You can have a lot of energy, a lot of drive. They get all the way from... Boom. So, they have a lot of... They're very, very brave and strong and amazing. And you kind of have them... We talked about this. The dad who gets the heart condition and then he isn't as active. Or a good part of the play. So, that tendency might be buried in the way that you're trying to develop these characters. And really, what do they do? What are they doing? It's like... Think of maybe 10 stupid things they're going to do in the end of the play. I can't really steam the things. I don't know what. Throw them in there and do it. And just have a conversation that you already know and come out just naturally through the act... through the actions that they're doing, right? And again, like... And people go, oh, you know... Talking is... We're talking about this talking is... That long is action. Enough. Maybe. But, you know, like, later... Oh, my kingdom today! Oh, he's bringing them out! Wait, what are they doing? No, no, you know what the place is about. Because there's a map and there's an old guy. He's like... Whatever he's doing. And then the dogs come in and... Right? And a lot of exposition. But, whoa, we're totally hooked. Yes, I am. Right? It's that kind of energy that you want. Yeah? So make a list of 10 stupid things and pick one. Throw them in there. And make a list of them. And then the rest of them are just like... Boom! I'm excited. And keep checking in because we're excited. I'm rooting for this place. It's such a beautiful place. Oh, you're getting a little bit tired. Yeah. What's it like? What's it like? Hey, I'm there, you know. Do you got some people here? C.A. and Chloe know the program? I know what my class is like. Sure. And what my other class is like. What do you guys like? Oh, so I have two classes. One is called... Collaboration Reloaded. I'm like... Collaboration Reloaded, which I teach with Oscar Eustace in the fall. And the other one is called Loving the Living Playwright, which I teach by myself in the spring. Okay. Congratulations. Thank you. We'll see you next year. Next year, you sure? Well, we'll see. It's all about funding now. Oh, yeah. It's good to accept these congratulations. Thank you. Anybody else? No? You just... You should have anecdotes. No, you can't. So, when people write their first play, it's usually very personal. Okay. No, not always that I'm just saying. If you're a new writer, sometimes the work that you produce the first time, there's going to be a lot of BU in it. Okay. Or at least from my experience. How do you remove yourself from that? How do you... How do you know when it gets too personal and then have to detach yourself away from it and look at it as a writer, not as one of the characters of the play? So, okay. Yeah, so you're writing a play in which wherever you are in your career, whether it's your first play, your 90s novel, or whatever, and you're writing, and you have your energy, and you get the coldest drama. You need my help. Your chair is falling. You're okay. I'm just writing a sweatshirt. I have a Harvard notebook. I know how to go hard on that one. So, wherever you are in your career, you've written something that's very personal. Wherever you are in your career. And how do you look at the work objectively? Because sometimes you might include something in a play or a novel or whatever and say, it has to be that way because it really happened that way. And in most moments we know that perhaps it has to change. Because it's not so easy to play when we have to cut it, change it a little bit. Right? So that's one way to take yourself out of it. By seeing things as... By seeing things in terms of dramatic relevance, this needs to stay in a play because it works for the play. Not because it really happened to me, for example. And that's one way to take yourself out of it. That's actually kind of the best way. Just make sure you post it together as a piece of literature. Is that called? Yes, please! Please! So, in my first novel which is set in Ohio, this was part of... many years ago. So, for the research I was driving around Ohio. And I stumbled across just by chance, Custer's Monument or something like that. And while I was standing at this deserted park land, this big, huge, pink car drives out. Two white people drag out their Native American adopted son. And they basically forced them to look at these massacre stuff. Anyway, it was this amazing scene. I just thought, this has got... It fits into some of the themes in the book. So I added this scene. The whole book told fiction except this one scene that was in the book. So I finished the draft. I think it was my dad who read it. He was my first reader. And I think it was he... No, no, sorry, my editor, my editor in Penguins said, you know, I love everything in this book except there's this one chapter that is so unreal. It's got to go. And so it was the one quote, real chapter. But it wasn't real for the book. It can't just be brilliant writing or a great scene, but it's got to be real for the book. It has to be real for the book. Play. Yeah, or play or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's a great start. What's that poor child today? Or the poor parent. So many things are sad about that. I... It's a good question. I'm great. Thanks for the story. Yes, girl. In the back of my mind, sometimes I think it's a play. Mm-hmm. I try it a little bit as a play and I don't think it's dramatic enough because you're telling about things that happen rather than things that are happening right now, that kind of action. So I'm just trying it now as a short story. Oh, good. And trying that out. But when there's an idea or characters from your life that you keep talking at your shoulder periodically, how long do you pursue that? Yeah, that's a great question. Carol has... Carol has a lot of novels and stories and plays and songs and stuff like that. So you ask me a question. You have a story, idea, that has... You've had it in your mind a long time. And it's... You try it as a play. You try it as a... Now you're trying it as a short story. And the question is how long does one keep hope alive? Until hope... Until... You know, one day... One day that character would either turn it into something or they might turn it into several things. You know? Or they might turn it inside out and suddenly become Abraham Lincoln, for example, in my experience. Yeah, but I have a... I can hear... As my son said this morning, Mommy, you're reading my mind. But if the character could turn it inside out and make out with somebody else. Or they could just leave you alone. You know, it's all good. They could just go back into the furnace and come up three years later. Something house energetically. They could just be reincarnated. It's such a good story. And you find a way or you know, they'll just leave you alone. You know? Either way... We'll see. Yeah. That's part of the fun. The torture of it. It's fun to eradicate it. It's not really good. It's interesting. 80s. 80s. Yeah. Daniel's on, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. I mean, you know... I mean, it's already done. I'm gonna go home. Yeah. Okay, so we'll be back next week. What's the date? 21st. 21st. We'll be up on the 21st at 5 p.m. EST Eastern Standard Time. Thanks so much for coming. Bye. Thank you.