 Okay, and here we are live on the metal voice. You know, I'm gonna preface this, you know, when Steve Grimit, he passed away, you know, now it's been, has it been a week? Less than a week. You know, I sent the link to Millie and Millie, you know, she loved all the sort of the fan reaction from it and she goes, you know, I need to distract myself, right? And he just felt like you, there's things you had to say, right? So that's why you're on, you know, just to, I guess your way of grieving and letting it go, letting it out and we really appreciate you being on. Max, I know that you've, from the perspective as an artist and a friend and, you know, you've known Steve and I thought it'd be fitting that you would be on too. And we're gonna have Todd Latore later on, you know, just to give us his perspective as an influence as a singer. Steve's influence over the years, right? Alan, did you wanna say anything? No, no, like we said earlier, our condolences from the whole metal community. I mean, the outpouring of emotion from everybody over the last week has been great. And we sent our condolences, of course, to Millie and her family, so. Thank you. I can preface this too. I could say that Steve, you know, released three albums with Grim Reaper, C. O. Nal, Fear No Weevil and Rock You to Hell in the 80s. And our good friend Max Norman, you know, was part of the Rock You to Hell era. They went on tour with the Hell on Wheels with Armored Saint and Halloween in 1987, which was, you know, a great tour back then. He played in Onslaught with Lion's Heart and of course, recently, Steve Grim, it's Grim Reaper where he released two albums. Five years ago, I can't even believe it was five years ago, Steve lost his left, or sorry, his right leg partially above the knee, got amputated in Ecuador in 2017. $14,000 were raised by the fans to make sure you guys were sort of on track because the insurance at the time were not paying. And unfortunately, Steve passed away August the 15th, which is almost a week now at the age of 62. So I guess I'm just gonna, to Millie, I just, you know, I'll just give you the microphone. I don't know what questions to ask you, I don't wanna overstep here, so I know. Yeah, you can ask me anything I like. I'll tell you if I do wanna answer it, but I want to first just say to thank you to everybody because the support has just been overwhelming, really has the, I've lich, I mean, within the first 12 hours of announcing it, I must have had 3000 messages, I think, within the first 12 hours. It was very difficult, obviously, because we're just trying to get our heads around to what happened, and we still are getting our heads around to happen because Steve, we weren't, Steve, we weren't aware that Steve was ill. Steve wasn't aware he was ill. And which I'm pleased about because it meant that he didn't, he didn't die worrying or feeling ill or thinking he's gonna die any day or any of that. He died, he was still grieving his brother, he never came out, got over the death of his brother, which is nearly four years ago now. Steve and his brother were just, this is middle brother, they were just inseparable. They did so much together and built planes together and flew together and stuff. And Steve never got over the death of his middle brother at all. But aside from that, he was in a really good place. His mental health was really good. He's halfway through writing an album. He was only, we were only talking to Chris Holmes on Sunday evening to talk about him doing a guest slot on one of the tracks. Steve had so many ideas written down. There's tours that are coming up. His new manager, Elaton, was loads of stuff coming up and there's Japan, Australia, New Zealand. All of these were coming up next year. He was supposed to do South America again, November. Keep it true in end of September. Loads, so much going on and we had plans, but actually inside he was actually quiet and well and we didn't realize, but I'm glad because he died, he didn't die worrying. He died happy and he wasn't in pain because he went in his sleep. It was instant the doctor said it was an instant death and he literally just went to sleep and didn't wake up. And then I just found him is lying in his usual place when he needs to have a nap because his diabetes was quite bad on and off. So we did kind of have the odd naps throughout the day when he could and he just had one of his morning naps before going out and he just didn't wake up. So yeah, it's been just over a week now. It's last Monday that happened. So it's been, yeah, and it's, I'm still getting my head around it. It's quite tough. It feels like he's on tour at the moment, especially because there's all the videos and photos that people are sharing and it's almost like, oh, that was last night's gig. So it's some still trying to process it all at the moment. My son is diabetic. And for those of you who don't know, you know, you have to keep a watch on your sugar levels. If your sugar is too low, you have to have extra sugar, right? And if your sugar is too high, you need to insulin or pills, right? To bring it down. Yeah, I mean, it wasn't the diabetes, the God, it was his heart, he had problems with his heart. He didn't have a heart attacked when he died, but it was issues with his heart, but it's known with people with diabetes because it's, unfortunately, it goes hand in hand and you have to extra look after your heart even more so when you've got an illness like diabetes because you've got high risk of blood pressure problems, which causes problems with the vessels and heart disease and all sorts. And then there's the life of a rock and roll star in the 80s, which is always gonna take your toll on you later on in life. I think he, the Reaper boys enjoyed the 80s very much. Well, he was well. I mean, he lost a lot of weight, at least from the last time we saw him, right? He was looking better. He was looking good. I mean, it's hard to ask you to figure out a question to ask you, like I don't want to... It's just like Jimmy was mentioning earlier, we had a friend that we've known since we were in high school and the same circumstance. So there was no prior indication of anything being wrong with this heart until that moment. Yeah, I mean, there had been warning signs, again, connected to the diabetes, but we just weren't aware of how severe, how severe things were. And like I say, I'm pleased. I am pleased because I wouldn't have left his side and I wouldn't have slept because I would have been so worried and he wouldn't have been able to relax because he would have been worried that he could go any day. And the doctor said actually he lived a lot longer than he probably should have done. So we are... So we're kind of looking at lots of positives that we had him longer than perhaps medically we should have done. He didn't know what was going on and he didn't know he was ill and he died a completely pain-free death. He always said to me that his ideal death was dying on stage, which he nearly did in Ecuador. Like every rocker, right? I said that wouldn't be fair for everybody else who were there though, but he did say he wasn't scared of dying, it was just how he would die in an ideal world. He would just want to go to sleep and not wake up and that's what he did. Was there an official reason that the doctors have they figured that out yet? They just said it was due to some heart issues. Is that it? They've given... I can't put the technical terms or I can't put the death certificate says, but it's to do with heart disease, basically, but it's some technical term. I can't remember what it is. So it's not heart attack, he didn't have a heart attack. And it wasn't COVID-related and I've had many messages from people asking me, was it COVID-related and did the vaccine kill him and no to both of those? Max, when was the last time you saw Steve? Oh, a long, long time ago. I don't remember. I may be doing that video for Rocky the Hell. Oh, jeez. I think that's the last time. I might have been the last, although I have spoken to him since then, I actually spoke to, well, taxi them. Probably only a few months ago, actually, I was doing some courseware, some classes on production and stuff like that. And he was saying, oh, I'd be interested in doing that, he wanted to pick my brain about a few things, I guess. But what a great singer and what a lovely guy. I mean, it's really shocking to me. Oh, it's just straight out of the blue. I feel like I felt when Nick Manza had died, it was just like all of a sudden. And it's a very shocking thing. And, you know, it's difficult to take really, you know? And you always wonder, you know, you always wonder what could have been, like Milly's saying, it feels like he's kind of on tour and what he could have done. And maybe we would have been able to work together in the future. And I don't know, you know, it's just, life is such a fleeting thing, you just got to grab hold of it as much as you can. And, you know, just, you know, try and look after yourself and try and, you know, love your brother and all the rest of it, really, because it's here and gone in a flash, I guess. I should also mention in the video link, I put the fundraiser that your friend Milly started for you. And I think it's important, you know, because people don't realize that it's not like when you're a rock and roller, right? You're not getting these benefits that you do when you work for a global corporation. There's no insurance, you know, there's nothing, right? And so the link is there. If you want to help out with, you know, to send off Steve, you know, the way he should be sent off, you know? The link is there. If you want to donate, please donate. Again, it's in the video description. Do not send the money to me. Please, just put it in the description. You know, one time said he was sending me money. I know, don't send it to me. I don't want the money. Send it right to them and to that. Go find me and it's there to make sure, Steve. So what do you have in terms of arrangements? Maybe you want to talk about funeral arrangements. You're going to stream this live, is that it? Yeah, yes, so Steve wasn't born in sort of, so we're in Wiltshire, but he didn't come from here. He come from Cheeksbury. Well, he didn't come from Cheeksbury, but he did a lot of what was growing up in Cheeksbury. And there's a beautiful abbey there and that's where his funeral will be. It's on the 7th of September, 2 p.m. local time, UK time. Absolutely, anybody's welcome. Everybody is welcome to come, and but we are going to live stream it as well. So I'll share the link close to the time. But yeah, and then there's going to be a wake afterwards. So if anyone who's there in person, more than welcome to come along. Steve always made time for his fans because his fans are incredibly important to him because if it wasn't for his fans, he wouldn't have, there would be no Steve Grimmett. You know, it would just be a regular guy in his shed playing with his planes. That would be it. So it wouldn't, you know, there'd be no musician, there'd be no the person that Steve become. So I'm, if people are coming along, then I want to meet them afterwards as well and say thank you to people to joining in. But yeah, I'm very grateful to everybody that's donated and I'm very grateful to my friend Rachel as well to start up the fund. I didn't ask her to do it. That was nothing to do with me at all. But she, just as I was talking to her and I think only a few days before saying to how much it's going to cost, which a funeral is almost the cost of a wedding. It's a huge amount of money. And Steve was never shy to admit that he didn't have any money and he was on benefits because he never saw any other reaper money. So he's, yeah, we're not, he had the fame and he had the, you know, rock and roll background, but he never had the money that come with it. We don't live in a mansion like people think we do. We're doing a very modest rented accommodation. So, yeah, and yeah, I'd say everyone's, everyone's welcome to come along. And you'll be streaming it on, is it going to be on YouTube or Facebook? How are people- I don't know yet. I don't know yet how they're going to do it. We might do both. I need to speak to the Abbey to see how they do it, but yeah, maybe we'll do both through our, through the Reaper channel and also through the Facebook page, the Grim Reaper Facebook page. I'll tell you a quick little story. Steve was a funny guy. Steve was, had a great sense of humor. And the last time he was in Montreal, every time he comes to Montreal, we'll go interview him and see him and hang out, right? The last time he was in Montreal, CMA Steve, how are you doing? Good, good, we talk. He goes, okay, I'll be back in a minute. And he comes back and he's wearing his metal voice shirt. You know, he brought it all the way from the UK to wear it just so I could, just for the interview. Like that Steve, you know, like it just surprised me. And you think about it, you know, you're going on tour. The last thing you think about is packing clothes for somebody, but he thought of me, you know? Like he thought of me and Alan. He thought of us, you know, sort of representing, you know, and you know, it was, it's kind of like funny and touching at the same time, right? That somebody could think of you that much to, you know, go out of his way. So I like to share that. He loved his t-shirts. He's got a ridiculous amount of t-shirts. I don't know what I'm going to do with them all. I'm going to have to, I don't know what I'm going to do. Do all of them. So I was never allowed to get rid of t-shirts. I always tried to remove some of them and he wouldn't let me. Cause he said, no, every single one means something. He's been given to him by a band or a company or he bought it when he was in a certain place. So yeah, I'm going to have to keep them forever, I think. He used to, when he used to come to Montreal, he just, you know, and I go, okay, Steve, I'll see you later. He goes, no, where you going? And he just like, make me sort of sit there and we talk like all the way to show time. And then he just go perform. It's like, what a guy. Like, you know, and, and, you know, he was funny. He was a funny guy. He was really funny and interesting to talk to. And, you know, I always enjoyed it when he came and I was looking forward to seeing, you know, me and I want to see him again, you know, on tour, we always like to go out and see him, you know? And I don't know. Yeah. They say that sometimes. Steve, when you, when you're interviewing and he's on stage, that's the true Steve. Cause he was, that's when he was his happiest. Cause he absolutely lived for being on stage. And they say, they say sometimes you don't want to meet your heroes, but Steve was definitely the exception of that. I mean, it was such a great guided meet and always had time for everybody. And, and of course comes alive on stage, as you said. So. Yeah. Yeah. Max, do you have any cool stories back in the Fear No Evil days? How did you record those vocals? How did you record those vocals of Steve? Those are like phenomenal. Well, you know, he's a really good in the studio. And he's a very, he lasts a long time. He can sing for a long time. He's got good voice control. So he's a, it was always a pleasure to work with. So that album was recorded at Longview Farm up in Massachusetts. And he was saying, yeah, he would, he would sing. I think we would start probably about five, six o'clock in the evening. He would sing, he'd be able to do a good six hours every night. So it was pretty, it was pretty good. And he, he, we'd be at, we'd bounce around and we'd pick stuff up and then we'd go back and check other stuff. And he was a real hard worker and only interested in getting the best possible result, of course. And, and, you know, a great singer. I mean, and, and still I, I heard some stuff recently and can still sing really great or could still sing really great. So, you know, it's a, it's a big loss to the, to the singers, to the rock singing world. You know, it's a big loss. The guy was a really good singer and wasn't that hard to get those vocals. In fact, it was, it was, it was very enjoyable. It was good to do sessions with. He's a happy, it was a happy guy. And he, you know, he always had a good time and enjoyed himself as many said. He was, he was always enjoying himself. So, you know, pretty easy, pretty easy to get great results, you know, the album speaks for itself. You know, he sings really well on that record. He sings really well on pretty much everything I've learned. So, you know, it's unfortunate that, you know, you know, it didn't really get recognized for the, for how good he was, you know, it was really up there amongst one of the, one of the world-class singers. And, you know, I don't think every was recognized. And actually a friend of mine only just recently heard a couple of Grim Reaper albums and they said to me, well, how the fuck did I not hear this before? And I'm like, I don't ask me, that's your problem, you know. I said, it's Steve Grimmit. I said, the guy's a great singer. I said, I'm surprised you never heard it. This is a person that was, knows a lot about metal and everything like that, but for some reason. So I don't know what happened and I don't know why Steve wasn't more widely known, but obviously he was more widely known than I thought because now people are coming out and saying, you know, but it seems to be, it's a bit of a shame that it takes Steve's passing away to the people to, you know, come out of the woodwork and say how great he was. But, you know, he really was a great singer. That's a huge loss. It's a huge loss to everybody, you know, to all of us. I think the comments we've seen over the last week is a lot of people are going back and rediscovering Steve through the work of Grim Reaper and his other bands. So that's a positive as well. So yeah, I mean, you know that people go listen and they go, hey, this guy's really fucking good. Yeah. You know, like somebody thought he wasn't, I don't understand, you know, but there's a lot of people that a lot of people, so in one sense, some good may come out of this that may start to get recognition that he didn't get, you know, so let's hope. You just sparked a little memory for me. I remember, I love turning guys onto different types of bands back in the 80s and I remember a guy I worked with, he dropped by and I said, you got to listen to this. And I put on the Grim Reaper, I actually put on your album, Max, that you produced here. And he just could not believe, he never heard, like you said, never heard of these guys. And I put it on, he's like, you know, I got to get a copy of this tomorrow, you know? I got to run out of it by this. He was just completely blown away by that album, so. Yeah, you know, yeah, but you know, he did a lot of, I'm not familiar with everything that he did. Either many can probably fill this in a bit more on that, I know he did like two or three other bands and that I never, I actually never heard. So hopefully we can find out who that is and we can, you know, we take a listen to some of the other stuff. I mean, there's, I think there's quite a bit of stuff out there that I've never heard, certainly. Yeah, he's, he's, he's done it. Tell us about the latest, there was a live album that was just released, correct? Steve Grimit, Grim Reaper live album, was that? Yeah, I don't know a lot about it, I'll be honest. But yeah, it's a kind of where it was recorded, but it's been on the back burner for, well, not even on the back burner, but it's just been sat there for so long and it was recorded number of years ago and they've been meaning to do something with it for ages and then, yeah, they just sort of just managed to do it and the label. So Steve's actually, he started up his own label, it's called Reaper Records. So the, so the, so the vinyl, so the three albums, the three, the first Reaper albums have been released on vinyl on Reaper Records and then any re-releases is going to be done on Reaper Records. So I don't know anything about owning a label, but I will do my best to try and keep it going along with the other label that Steve signed to. So yeah, he did loads and he did Grimstein with a good friend of ours, Steve Stein in America, which is why it's called Grimstein. That's kind of quite a bit more melodic-y stuff. There's a bit heavier in there as well, but that's really lovely. They were planning on, again, for years, they'd been planning on doing a second Grimstein album. Might be enough written. I don't know if there's enough written there already. There was his Solo One Personal Crisis, which I think Steve Fearless was his proudest piece of work. He loved that album, but was really surprised. He didn't do enough, he didn't do well as well as he was expecting, but I think it was the label that had it at the time. It was a German label and I can't remember what it was called and they didn't really push it hard enough. So I think all these things will be re-released over time. I need to have a chat with Steve's other label and the co-owner of his Reaper Records as well. And, yeah, get them all out of the woodworks. Lyons, of course, the Lyons Heart stuff came out on, I don't know what you call it, lots of CDs that packed together. And, yeah, we were working through the whole back catalogue as much as we possibly could, but we just ran out of time to do it whilst he was still alive, but we're working on it. He's done a lot of guest slots. He's done so much. There's just, we'd be here for hours if I listed everything. Just so you know, I've been wearing this shirt for not every day, every second of the day, but every time we do a show, I've been wearing it for this past week and everybody keeps asking me, where did you get this shirt? Where'd you get this shirt? It's very, very popular. It's a nice shirt. It was actually done by the guys in Montreal when he was in Canada on the Canadian tour. So if you got any of these guys, put them out there. I think you'll get a lot of people and even your shirt is nice too. Yeah, these are kind of limited edition. It's quite basic. It's just got the name on it, but I don't have got any of these left, but the, so Stephen the band was supposed to play Keep It True in Germany at the end of the month on the 30th of September. And so they were headlining the Friday night on the 30th and obviously it's not going to happen now, but Ollie, one of the organisers said to me, look, how would you feel if we still keep their slot, still bring the band over? But we have guest singers still doing a re-percept, but we'll have lots of different guest singers, which I thought was a great idea. So what they're doing is they've printed some pins, just some light little badge pins. So the first, I can't remember how many they'd done, couple of thousand or a few hundred, I can't remember how many it is. So people get them for free. So the first time many people turn up, people get a pin badge in memory of Steve for free. And then they're also selling some unique memory t-shirts as well, but they're only going to be sold there. So if you want them, you need to go. So you've got quite a good lineup. It's on their Facebook page anyway, the Keep It True Facebook page and Saxon are headlining Saturday nights. I can't remember whose, and then they've got lots of bands playing Sunday as well. So that'll be good and I'm going to go to that. So if anyone's going, then come and say hello. But and Steve's son's coming with me. He's going to sing a couple of songs because he's like his dad. He's got a very good voice. Steve's daughter, Sammy, has got a beautiful voice as well, but she's not, she doesn't sing, but in public, but Russell definitely got his dad's voice. So yeah, watch this space with his son, definitely. That's very cool. I'm going to bring Todd Latourian in one minute. Did he ever get around? So, okay, the last thing he told us was he was kind of trying to work on a biography, but he just didn't know anything about writing books. So he had to get a friend to help him write a biography. Was anything ever done? No. No, he kind of wrote the odd bit. He wrote the odd memory down, but nowhere near enough for a chapter, let alone a whole book. He just wasn't in the right mindset. The problem was he lost his leg and he had his PTSD. He just, he really struggled, really struggled with his mental health. And especially then we had, well, then it's like nearly two years later, his brother died and then we had COVID. So we had lockdown. So he just had so many hurdles to overcome. And like I said earlier, he was, it was happiest when he's on stage. So he couldn't sing. He wasn't on stage for two years and he didn't sing for two years. So he wouldn't, he didn't even, we wasn't, many musicians thought, right, I'm gonna write a new album. I'm gonna write lots of music. I'm stuck in my house, but Steve just couldn't do it. He just couldn't get the drive. His mental health really took over and he just couldn't, just couldn't write a book or music. He couldn't do anything. And then- Did COVID really depress him? Because he couldn't get on stage and write? Really badly, really badly. Yeah, he really, really suffered bad. Cause the last time he taught properly would have been 2019 when he did the North US. That would have been the last time he properly taught. And then he's done the odd gig. But I would say since lockdown was released in the UK anyway, then he's only done not even a handful of gigs. He did South America, I think it was July this year. He did about four gigs, I think. But that's it. He's just, yeah, it really affected him badly. Okay, I'm gonna bring on Todd. I know Todd wants to talk about Steve as sort of an influence to singers. Cause Todd's a great singer and you know what his experience is? Just hang on everybody as I bring Todd on. Okay, I bring Todd on. Todd? Hey there. Hey. Let me maximize the screen here so I can see everybody. There's Millie. There's Max. Hey Todd. Hi, it's been a little bit. Oh crap. Hi Alan. Hey Todd. You know, I have a couple of things I wanna say before we get into him as a singer. I hate to meet Millie in this context because there was some correspondence a while back about doing a guest spot for something working with them and with Steve. And I couldn't tell you how sweet and pleasant and kind you were, Millie. To me, cause we hadn't met in person and you were such a sweetheart. And there was just this instant fondness of you and Steve through you. Usually people, you know, would know Steve and then meet you. And it was the other way around for me. So on behalf of myself and certainly everyone in Queensrike, we send our most sincere condolences to you for a very profound loss. I'm getting kind of jokey. I mean, it's an awful thing that you have to go through. And, you know, we all unfortunately have to face stuff like this. And there's something else I wanted to say before we talk about Steve's incredible voice is a lot of spouses of people in the industry that are in the spotlight sometimes tend to feel that they're in the shadow of their partner. And there can, sometimes that's a problem, you know? Clearly you have your own identity, you're your own person, you know, you don't wanna be just Steve's wife, right? Like you're Millie, you have your own thing. But always remember this. You will forever be embraced by one of the best communities of people in the world. Wherever you go in any context that has to do with rock and heavy metal, always know that, you know, the word family can get loosely thrown around. But I mean it from my heart when I tell you that if it's any consolation or if it brings any sliver of comfort in the future to know that you will always be looked at as your own person, but very much valued for being that significant other in his life and being by his side and all of the things that you do for him that we don't even know about. So just always remember that you are loved by a community of people literally all over the world, not just in your community, not in your country, but all throughout South America, I mean continents. And I want you to know that, you know? I'm sure you're in shock. Like you said, you feel like he's on tour and I'm sure that you're numb to this and it maybe hasn't even hit you yet. I don't know. But I just wanted to extend that to you that, you know, like when people are married and then they get divorced and the in-laws were, they were family, right? But then when you get divorced, most of the time you never really hear from the in-laws anymore, right? This is not that case because even though he's gone there, his music lives on forever. Max was a part of something very iconic, you know, as well and the good thing is even though he's gone you will not fade away for us in the same way that like Wendy Dio is around and, you know, your life doesn't have to be always focused on his legacy. You have your legacy too, but just know that you're very well thought of and respected and I'm sure that there are so many people that look forward to meeting you and sharing wonderful stories that will bring a smile and a tear to your face. And it's, you know, time will heal but you're not gonna be forgotten because he's gone now. You will always be embraced by this community of people. I just wanted you to know that. Thank you. Yeah. So I have a quick story about when I first heard of Grim Reaper. So it was in my teenage years, my mid teens and in Florida we had, I mean, there was MTV but unless you were on headbangers ball, you know, late at night, you didn't really get to see the cool metal bands. And of course I watched headbangers ball and all that stuff, we had a local TV station called V32, kind of a lower budget thing, but it was an awesome TV station that played just metal. And I remember I was in my bedroom and I was a drummer back then. I liked to sing, but I was a drummer. And... We've seen the pictures, Todd. We've seen the pictures. Oh, good. And rock you to hell, the video came on. And I remember this headbanging, this good headbanging groove, you know, and it caught my attention. And I turned and I looked and I saw this guy with the classic 80s bangs, which I still think are cool as shit. And he had this insane long hair and he was just like, he was so like metal in this video. And then his voice, he begins to sing. And I was like, wow, like I, at that time, I really didn't hear vocalists that sounded so natural and just it sounded effortless. And it was such a power, it sounded really powerful. It was the complete embodiment of what it meant to be like a heavy metal singer. He had, he looked that way. He was saying, you know, back in those times that, you know, rock, you know, rock you to hell. It was like, if you said hell in a song, it was kind of like, ooh, who are these guys? You know, but it had that edge to it. And I just, I became captivated. Every time that video would come on, no matter what I was doing, I would stop and I would watch the whole thing. Fast forward, you know, two decades and I'm now in a band called Crimson Glory. And I'm just, you know, I always liked to sing but I was never in a band as a singer. I was always like a rock metal drummer. And I really gained an even more newfound respect for his ability because as singers, you know, men have a chest voice and a mixed voice and a head voice and all these different things but you really want the voice to sound like one voice. And the way that he could transition from like a chest belt up into this really high register without sounding thin but sounding very robust and full, it was like, okay, there's a handful of guys in the world that can not only just do it but I mean sell it and he really made it look and sound effortless. And unless you do that, you really can't understand what it takes to be able to pull that off and to do it. I think he was just a born natural, just a natural talent for singing. And so he was very inspirational in those formative years of me, like getting into heavy metal, going from like rock but more into metal. And it was like this guy is kind of the epitome of having that full voice without sounding really thin and sounding like two different voices within somebody but rather one full, complete voice. And he was very much just so respected. And as we age, our voices change and you can't do what you can't do when you're in your 50s, like you're in your 20s. And but when he performed still and I watched, I would continue to keep tabs and watch videos even after the amputation and he was out there. And if that's not a testament, I mean, we have bands, I'm not gonna name names, there are bands out there touring that are only doing it for the cash. They hate each other and they're making the big bucks, right? Like millions, they're multi-millionaires. They're grossing insane numbers, they're netting insane numbers. And for someone like Steve and it's the 99% of every other heavy metal band, you're doing it for the passion of it. So for a guy that lost that leg who's not making millions of dollars for sharing his craft and his heart and his talent with an audience, to me that's richer than any band that hates each other that doesn't wanna be on stage doing it for multi-millions of dollars. And my hat's off to him for continuing to do that passion and connecting with an audience. People just, people just wanted to see him in person, you know, like, wow, this is the guy, this is him. And what a cool thing to experience and for you to witness and for him to take in that love from people that just like me, I was that 15 year old, 14, 15, 16 through watching this guy on my TV. And now there's a possibility I could do a collaboration on a well-known song, you know, that he did. Or I got to meet Max Norman because of this affiliation. And Max and I have met in person before and communicated here and there. And I mean, it's been an honor for me even though I'm doing it now, but I didn't get into that on this level till my late 30s. I had a whole nother career and business before all of that. So I just think it's really awesome that somebody like Steve was still, despite those setbacks, whether it was emotional setbacks from losing a leg, I mean, I can't even imagine that. But going out there and just giving it his all every single night and still having plans and whatnot. And I was listening to the interview earlier and you mentioned the Keep It True Festival. And I know Oliver very well, and he actually messaged me, it was today or yesterday, my days are getting mixed up, but he asked if I would be willing to be one of the guest singers at that festival and that they were flying out to do it. Unfortunately, I'm on tour for pretty much all of September and I can't be there, but I did thank him privately for thinking of me and asking me to be part of it. I'll certainly be there in spirit. And Crimson Glory did the same thing when their original singer Midnight passed away and they did a memorial concert and they had like 17 guest singers. They did, it was a big headline set at the Prague Power Show in Atlanta, Georgia. And it was very therapeutic, I think, for the band. It was, I mean, it was hard that some of the guys were crying, you know, and it's during like to start a song, like the drummer was wiping, you know, people are, it's very emotional, but I think it was a very, it was part of a healing process and kind of sharing that love of the music and who he was as a person. And I think it's really great that Oliver's gonna keep the band on that bill and just get everybody that can come up and... I think it's great. I think it's a wonderful tribute. I thought it was amazing, you know? Yeah, it's really great. Millie, explain to everybody how difficult it was for Steve and what courage it took to get up on stage and to tour on one leg. And I mean, I've seen this in action. I've seen Steve, you know, in action. In New York, good old Kenny had to like help him get somebody to help fix his little, the little, that sort of wheelchair thing that he had, right? Explain to everybody what it took for him to do this. It was really, really tough. And there's not many countries that are suitable for wheelchairs, especially South America places. Ecuador is probably one of the worst actually. And if you think about the rainfall that they have, so the pavements are so deep because of all the water, but they're also slanted. So when you're trying to go along there in a wheelchair, it's virtually impossible. And there's no drop curves. So I couldn't even get him back up onto the pavement. It's just a nightmare. And venues, very few venues, a wheelchair accessible. There's, what was it? I think it was, not that long ago actually, I think it was just at the weekend, we were watching a show that was filmed at the whiskey. And there's, I think it was the whiskey and there's steps, steep steps going onto the stage that you've got to go down. And Steve was like, yeah, that was it. And it's just not suitable for people in wheelchairs. But you don't think about it until you're in that situation. And they say that you actually, when you lose a limb and you're especially in a wheelchair, or if you're walking on a prosthetic, which Steve did at times, but it's very tiring and very painful. It can be very painful. It takes 80% more energy to be able to just walk. And if you think that, so initially he, so he had three operations before he lost pretty much the whole leg. He had to lost the foot then below knee and then it went above knee. If he hadn't have got an infection when he just, when they cut just below the knee, it would have been a lot easier because you still got your knee joint to kind of kick out your leg to be able to walk. And it would have been like walking normally. But because he didn't have his knee joint, that leg, his right leg, he was having to walk with his hip. So his leg that he had, he's walking normally, but then the other leg, you're trying to swing your hip to try and walk. And it was just really, really tiring for him. Plus having the diabetes and stuff, he just, and the blood flow in his good leg wasn't great at a time either. So he had to have extra, he had to put stents, have stents put in to open up the blood vessels to encourage a bit more flow to go through of the blood. It was really tough. I mean, even here, it's been quite tough. He couldn't get upstairs for a year until they put a stairlift in, until we managed to get a stairlift in. And we don't have a bathroom downstairs. I had a very dear friend of mine that had a condition called NF2. But he ended up having an amputee who was a very dear friend of mine. I used to meet him at the mall because the bus would bring him and people from the living facility was in and I have to feed him. And he just became basically like a quadriplegic. But when he lost his one leg, I remember him explaining phantom pain to me. Yeah. And he felt like his foot, his leg was there and he would try to itch it too. Like he would reach down to scratch his foot. There's no leg, there's nothing there to scratch, right? But the pain, he would have the pain, but the brain was still, he still felt like if he wasn't fully awake and he woke up, he felt like because there was the sensation of the leg still being there that he would go to take a step. There was a couple of times where he went to take a step and of course he fell flat on the ground. And I imagine that- Steve did fall many times. He probably, probably thought- On stage, actually. But I mean, not because like I lost my balance knowingly, but like I felt like I could walk because I feel like I have two legs. And I'm sure that that you probably, he probably experienced that too. Which there- He did. Yeah, even up, I mean, it's been five and a half years and even up to the day he died, he would always get phantom pains. He'd say, he'd drive him mad. And he'd say, it'd be really, really painful. And like if you've got cramp or something in your leg, you stand up and you try and stretch it and move around. He couldn't do that because it wasn't physically, wasn't there, it was just the brain. And you just can't, you can't really do anything about it. They try and put you on medication to try and numb the nerves and so it just wasn't working for him. So he just had to put up with it. So that lasted for years, the whole time. He always had it, yeah, always had it. But several times he got up split second for getting, he didn't have two legs and just keeled over and didn't on stage. I remember him ringing me after doing a gig. I can't remember where he was. I think it was in North America somewhere. And he phoned me and said, I've fallen, because he always, his biggest fear was falling over when he was on stage. But he, and he did, and he phoned me after a gig and said, I fell over on stage. Unfortunately, all the fans caught me because he'd literally fallen over to the, on the, over the edge of the stage. And the fans were reacted in time to catch him, pushing back up again. And he's a big guy too. That's the thing, right? He is a big guy, yeah. And then he carried on. You know what, something else is like as a singer, right? Like when you're a drummer or you have your drums as kind of your blanket, right? When you're a guitar player, it's kind of like this shield in front of you. You can throw your head around. You can, you could do things, right? Maybe if your voice as a singer, if your voice isn't so great at that day or you're feeling a little off, you can, you can hold the microphone and you can pull it away. You can, you can, I do it all the time. You, something's in your, you just feel like you need to spit something out or cough or you can use mic control. You can lean into a note. And then when you feel secure in it, you can then kind of lean into the mic. Steve didn't have that. He had a headset. So talk about even more vulnerability and courage to get on stage when you can't pull away from the mic, when you're starting to crack up or you're not, you know, we can use that to our advantage when we're not doing so well in a live situation. Steve had the, that exposed. Yeah, he had that. He's exposed. He would, I've seen him with like a cane and then he had the, I don't know if it would be called, it wasn't a prosthetic, it was, I don't know. A hydraulic of some sort. Okay, whatever that is. So he had that apparatus on his leg and then he had a cane. And then of course, you know, he's trying to connect with his audience, which he was, but he had this headset. And you're thinking, and I looked at him and I went, God damn, this guy is really putting it all out there. That's it. People don't realize, you know, that vulnerability and when you're, you know, when you're the singer, you're like front and center, right? Everybody's looking at you and there's their insecurities that we all have as people. And when you're on stage and then when you're the singer and then your voice is your actual instrument that you can't just tune up really quickly. I really give him so much, you know, I don't know what the right word is. Kudos. Promise. Kudos is the right word. I give him props for just fucking going balls out and putting it out there and just doing it man and doing it with a smile. The guy, you know, I never saw him throwing tantrums on stage or I mean, the guy was just looked like a kid in a candy store to be there with the audience. And perform these songs and what a great memory for an audience to have. And at the end of the day, that's what you remembered for, right? It's not, oh, this guy was so, what an amazing guitar player and he was this and he was that, but he was a jerk. You say, wow, this guy not only had an incredible voice, but what a, from what I, and again, I wasn't friends with him, but I've seen tons of interviews. I've heard stories from people that really knew him and worked with him and et cetera. I mean, the guy just seemed like a total teddy bear, sweetheart of a guy and what a legacy to leave behind that you were remembered as this loving, humble person that just loved performing for people and creating. I gotta say this, the last time he was here in Montreal, he told me he was suffering or he was suffering from post-traumatic stress and he didn't really give much input on the last album that he did. And you know what, it's to Todd's point here, you know, he just, he didn't show it. He didn't show that he was suffering from depression or he just, you know, he was just humorous and he was delightful and he was brave and. I think brave, a brave sounds like a really good word. You know? Like he didn't show it. Maybe he showed it at home. Yeah, I don't know. Like he just, when he was out on tour, he just, maybe because he was so happy to be on tour and to be with fans and to, you know, do what he loves to do. I mean, you know. Yeah, he did. I know I said it earlier, but he really did live to be on that stage. If that had been taken away from him, if he, if something had happened to his voice, I think as well, when he lost his leg, then he wouldn't have lived as long as he did. He just, he really did live for it when he was lying because in Ecuador, he was completely bedridden. He was not allowed out of bed for the whole five weeks. When you're here in the UK, the day after having an invitation, they get you out of bed and rehab starts immediately the next day. And he only had 30 minutes of internet a day because it was just so expensive. You could, you could see it. I mean, we, we, we streamed it. We filmed it all live on YouTube. Yeah. And we were there and, and you were 30 minutes. And let me tell you, first of all, this is what Todd said before. You are brave to just, you're flying from the UK all the way to Ecuador to see him. And he was all by himself. He didn't understand the language, Spanish, right? So he was just in bed by himself and he couldn't communicate with the doctors. And they're cutting his leg off and they're cutting his, like you said, three surgeries. So, and then you had to fly him back, right? And he had to wait until he healed to a certain degree to fly him back, right? And both of you, like, it's just a movie right there. That's a, you know, that's an incredible story. I mean, and if anybody wants to see that, that was quite the experience. And it's there on YouTube. Please go see it. You know, it's, it's a testament to the bravery of you both and your relationship, you know? Yeah. I mean, he spent the whole time because he couldn't do anything else. Because before I got there, he had nothing. You know, obviously he had no, I took over his laptop. I took a load of movies, like on a hard drive. I took him to magazines. He had nothing, absolutely nothing to do and say nobody to talk to. And he spent the whole time thinking, right, I can. So he's, so there was a, a world war pilot, Douglas Bader. And he had both his legs amputated and literally had poles for legs. And he still was a fighter pilot and he still carried on. And he was saying, right, if Douglas Bader can do that and still fly and still kill the enemies and all that kind of stuff, why can't I get back up on stage? And this was a hundred years ago. You know, the technology we've got today. So he lay in bed and he thought, right, what do I love doing? Well, I love building and flying my planes. Well, I can do that from a wheelchair, right, tick, right, cars. Oh, I can get a specially adapted car. But if I, so he would not, he would visualize himself driving with one foot and automatic. He did have a specially adapted car, but he could drive a normal automatic with the one leg with his left leg. He's like, right, okay, I could do that. And singing, he's like, well, I'll have to sing, sit down, but we'll give it a go. And he was just so determined. He thought, right, there's nothing I can't do. I've lost a leg. I've not lost my voice. But I think if he'd lost his voice, it would be a whole different story. He would not, he would not have lived much past six months. I don't think it would have killed him. He just couldn't have coped because he just loved being here for it. He set that goal right away. I don't know which festival, but he said, I'm going to be singing at that festival. I'm not canceling that date. I will be there. And the look on his face, I think somebody videotaped it. When he came out and said, mission accomplished. I set a goal and, and now here I am. So. Yeah, it was seven months later. It was, I've got more, it was 18 Germany. Open air, open air headbangers. That was it. And it was, yeah, even his team here to get him like his rehab team. And they're like, really? It's been, you really want to get back on stage in July. You lost your leg middle of January and this gigs beginning of July. That you know, this isn't going to happen. He's like, yeah, well, it will happen. And it did. And it was, I don't think I've ever been so proud of him as I was then. It was absolutely amazing. And the crowd were awesome. And thousands of people there. And he was standing up there crying because he was, I think he was just so shocked that he was thoroughly exhausted. But it was just amazing. It really was amazing. And they was like, right, I can do this. It's only been seven months. I can do this. So what's holding me back now? So he just carried on. Max, I think that was the fans. That was the fans that allowed him to do that. Just a question for Max. You know, Max, looking back even today, you know, people always talk about the Tates and the Dickensons and the Hullfords and Dios back in the 80s. But I mean, where for you or would Steve fit into that or with his voice, his tremendous voice that he had? Well, how do you mean? I didn't really understand what you were saying. Why wasn't he considered, you know, why isn't it as famous as some of the other singers when he had was just as much vocal talent? According to, based on your. Well, that's one of the biggest mysteries out there. But, you know, I'm trying to remember what the label was. Is it was it Atlantic? No, the first three you're talking about. Yeah. Well, the one I haven't remembered is RCA. RCA was it? Yeah. In those days, there was a lot of in order to sell records and tour, you really needed the support of a record company. You needed to support everything in those days which was based on touring and getting the record in those getting the album into those towns that the tour would hit. And that was how you sold the records. And because in those days, one of the big things obviously was trying to sell the record, trying to sell the vinyl, trying to sell the CD, whatever it was. So possibly there was a lack of tour support for this band and they didn't get enough support from the record label. That's often a cause of failure for even some even some quite, you know, even huge bands running to this problem from time to time. But I don't know what happened. I suspect the record company didn't support them enough. They didn't get out there tour enough for one reason or another. Probably wasn't their fault at all. You know, it's probably just down to either weird management, weird record label, not enough tour support, you know, all these kind of things. The album was received a bit lukewarm with the record label. It wasn't that bothered particularly about it. I don't think that this was a high priority band for them at the time. Although it should have worked out better. I think, who was, was it Walter O'Brien managing them? I think it was, wasn't it? So I don't know, you never know what the problem, you know, you never know why something doesn't work. You know, it's easy to say why it does work, but for every, for everyone that was a big hit in those days, there's probably 10 other 20 record. Max, when something works, everybody wants to take credit. When nothing works, nobody, it's crickets, right? Nobody wins it. Yeah, you know, and there's a lot of reasons why things don't come together. The stars don't align, you know, and that sort of thing. But I mean, Steve, as you guys are saying, I mean, what a hero and just kept going. And that's what he wanted to do. And I mentioned Nick, you know, Nick Manza earlier on, and he kind of went out the same way, if you like, you know, doing what he wanted to do. And, you know, it didn't compromise on anything. And it's very sad now to hear, you know, how Steve was going through a lot of pain and a lot of anguish. And I never realized, and people never realized, because he didn't show it. You know, he just showed that brave face. So good for Steve. Well done. Todd, would you say, and I, would you say, and this is to Alan, what he was mentioning, that Steve's voice was like on the level of, you know, like your voice and the top voices out there, like the plans and the deos. I mean, his voice, if you just isolate just his voice, that is how good he was. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, I'm sure, I'm sure if Max was behind the console, he started soloing out stuff and just put on his vocals. We would get to hear the magic that he got to hear when he recorded him, but the people that, look, a guy, like I said, He's an A-list singer. That's what I'm trying to say. He's an A-list singer. He's an A-list singer. Sure. Well-classing, that's what I'm saying. A-list singer, okay. He's hitting notes, not that high notes means everything, but he was hitting higher notes than Bruce Dickinson was ever hitting in Iron Maiden. And he had amazing vibrato. And, but again, he didn't just sound like this thin tenor singer that hit these high notes. He had this, almost like when the larynx drops, there's a, again, he had a rounder, a bottom end to that range. You know, there are singers like Dio that actually are singing much higher than you would think he is, because he had such a round, full, warm, bottom ending sound in the voice. But when you really start playing those notes on the piano or you try to sing that note, you're like, wow, that's really high. So if you took a singer like, you know, Tony Harnell or, you know, somebody that has that thinner sounding voice on the singing side and you had him sing a Dio song, it would be perceived that he was singing it higher than Dio did, even though he's not. Steve had an A-list voice and the thing is the people that know, you know, what Max is talking about, you know, the question of, you know, why aren't they more, look, there's some prodigy, there's some amazing person playing in a train station or a subway station right now that is, you know, at that level or greater and nobody's ever gonna know. And it's just a matter of luck, timing, all of these right things that you could have the best voice, you could be the best guitarist, drummer, it doesn't matter what. If you don't have proper representation and not only that, if you don't have the suits that are, you know, you know, if they don't see that this is what's hip right now and this is what's going on, maybe they're not gonna put that kind of support that Max was talking about. I mean, these bands that are as huge as they are in the genres that they are without the mainstream, Iron Maiden was a huge commercial band. I mean, okay, Run to the Hills was on some abstract video channels sometimes, but other than that, they weren't like this big radio band you heard all the time. Metallica was the same thing. These are anomalies and don't let anyone think that that's some kind of measure or barometer of talent. Cause it's not, it's like they're lucky in a field of grass, dude, those bands are like a couple blades of grass when there's so much amazing talent out there. But again, the people that know, people that are really into metal that know, they know, we could all name names and, you know, the average, you know, I like metal, I love metal, you could name names and they're like, I don't know who that is, but if you show them that, they're like, okay, wow, that's incredible. But, you know, that was the very, the stuff that Max did and, you know, See When Hell and all those other songs from those records, Dead On Arrival, you know, all these other things, those were, I mean, the Rocky to Hell and See When Hell, these are like very anthemic, you know, these are anthemic metal songs that just are killer. I still love hearing that stuff. Makes me feel good. And it's so cool that, you know, the music that he created out is gonna, we all say when we do something, we're like, well, we just made history. This is gonna outlive us. When I'm dead and gone, I hope that there's some teenager that I'm inspiring that will live on and Steve's voice will carry on and make people feel certain ways that he would never know about and Millie's never gonna know about. You're just gonna hear some stories, but, you know, there's thousands of people that, there's people that are listening to it right now and you don't even realize. Well, actually, that's true because I've seen some comments saying, you know what I just put on, you know, the CEO in hell album and I just discovered this great band. It's like, okay, a little too late, but that's cool. But I mean, but I mean, it's not like they're just playing it because of this tragic event. There are people playing it in different countries. Agreed, agreed. And so it's like, you know. By the way, by the way, Todd Oliver from Keep It True says, hi guys, nice to see you. So big shout out from Oliver, okay? If there's any questions that anybody would like to ask anybody here, please feel free to text. I also wanna, I just wanna say one thing. I just wanna remind everybody that in the link of this video description, there's a GoFundMe for the funeral to send Steve off with a great funeral. It's gonna be live streaming. We'll know more about that soon. But if you wanna send any money, it's greatly appreciated. Steve, you know, he wasn't the richest guy. He didn't have the biggest, you know, he didn't have any insurance, like big corporations, you know, employees do. He was just a struggling musician or, you know, you know, he did what he could and he lived, you know, within his means and it would, and again, it wasn't, nobody asked me to do this. I'm doing this. Me and Alan are saying this behind for the metal voice that if you please, you know, donate. This is, nobody has coerced me to do this. And I'd be happy to share that on my social stuff too, anyway, that I can help. And absolutely, I'll make sure that I get the links or information. I can, I will definitely post that to my stuff too. Anyway, we can help. I did have a question. I don't know if you covered it. And I feel like, I hope it's not out of line. But I know that you said that Millie, that there was a, the service would be streamed. Where is the final resting place? Is a cemetery, is a place near, near, could you tell me that again? Yeah, so, so, I mean, I don't know how well any of you know, and it makes you probably know Chukesbury, but I don't know about anybody else. But so Chukesbury's in Blosta, which is about an hour away from me. Beautiful Abbey. And then there's a cemetery there as well that Steve's brother's buried. His ashes are there. So he's gonna, he'll be there. But some of his, his request was, you talk about these things randomly, don't you? Like, oh, what would your final song be at your funeral? And where would you want to be buried or scattered? He wants to be, has some of his ashes scattered on their field, of course, because he was such, he was mad about aeroplanes. So that will happen not far from here. But yeah, it'll be in Chukesbury, is will be where is that his final ashes will actually be, be buried. Did he want, and you know, did he want any music to be played at his funeral? Like, I would think he would. That's why I'm asking. Yes, yes, I am. I'm just planning the funeral at the moment and just writing the order of service. People may not know that Steve was a man of faith. He was a Christian. And actually, see you in hell is actually about the temptation of Christ. And it is, he wrote it within five minutes. He was sat on the toilet one day. He tells me, and he just came to mind and he wrote it and that was it. It was done. And of course, it's his biggest legacy, but yeah, I can't believe you just asked me, but yeah, I can't remember what the question was, but yeah, he's, yeah. So funeral song. The question was, is he gonna play any songs? What kind of songs? Well, I will be there. So Steve's biggest inspiration was Elton John, believe it or not. And Elton John's the reason why Steve's Steve's son. And so there will be, when he comes in, there will be some Elton John plays. There will be a Grim Reaper song played, but then the other songs will be more contemporary sort of Christian music that he liked. There's gonna be a little bit of a rocky twist in there. I found a really good version of a well-known Christian song, which everybody knows, regardless if you have a faith or not. And, but I found a twist, one with a twist, which has got been redone and a bit of a rock to it. So yeah, there's gonna be, I want it to be a good celebration of life. Steve wouldn't want it to be doom and gloom. He'd want it to be a celebration and just to be remembered. So that's what I'm hoping we will achieve. Yeah, I'm sure you will. And if I'm overstepping here, how was he really depressed? Like again, like it was very difficult to read him because he was always happy and enthusiastic, at least when me and Alan talked to him. You don't see that side. Was he really upset? Was he really sad? There were times when he was very low. He did, I know he opened up, when he first opened up about having PTSD, I think, 18 months, I think after he lost his leg, maybe two years, he did actually consider taking his own life a few times because he was just so low. We've got, just outside, we live in a little suburb here and we've got a road, it's not a massively busy, it's not a busy road or anything, it's just through, we've got some little shops across the road. Cars coming and going quite regularly, but it's a 20 mile hour area, so it's not a fast road. And he was crossing the road once and he was at the side of the road and he thought, if I just keep going in my wheelchair and not stop and just let the next car hit me, then it will all be over. I really won't have to worry about me anymore and all this kind of, he thought, what am I doing here? My life just isn't even worth living. Thankfully, he didn't do that. And he said, just in that split second, there was a voice in his head and said, what about your family and your kids? What about your wife and your kids and your grandchildren? Because he's got five grandchildren as well and that's what stopped him. And he come home and he said to me, he was in pieces and he said, this is what I was about to do, I know I need help. So the next day, he was at the doctors and then he started his treatment on sort of medication and therapy and stuff, but he had some really, really dark times and yeah, COVID definitely didn't help. But leading up to this point, you had said that he had been in good spirits. So I'm guessing that the depression had subsided to a safer degree and he had some optimism. He was excited about doing these upcoming shows. And so he wasn't like, when he passed away, he wasn't this super depressed person. No, no, not at all. He was in a pretty, apart from still mourning, his brother, which he just never got over. Yeah, he was in a pretty good place. He had learned to, because he'd been through a few different sort of therapy sessions, most of them online because of COVID, but they really helped him because they helped him realize what his triggers were, helped see the signs of him slipping back into quite a deep depression. And he would open up more. I think when he first opened up to everybody publicly about having PTSD, how he felt, considering taking his own life, that really helped him, actually. And I know there's a good old cliche. There's an advert for British Telecom from years and years and years ago, I don't know, 80s, 90s. And their tagline was always, it's good to talk. And we always say that quite a bit here in the UK of, it's good to talk, but it really is. It's, sometimes when you say something out loud, it's not quite as bad as it is in your head because you get in your head. He suffered from terrible anxiety and would have anxiety attacks. So he just, but yeah, in the last few months, he was in a pretty good place and playing with his planes and he was planning on, he loved his planes. He was planning on learning to fly as well. Where he flies his planes, remote control planes, is on a glider, a site where they fly gliders. And because he was a member there, he could learn virtually for nothing, for free. And he could do it because it was primarily hand controls. So he would have been able to do it. So he was starting the process to start doing that. And yeah, he was loving it. But things were starting to pick up and I think because more gigs were starting to be booked. So he was in a happier place. So that meant that he was more driven. So that's why he then got on and thought, I got a writing album and he was halfway through an album. And yeah, his current manager, who's only been his manager since I think May, April, May, he really drove Steve for long. Eliton was really, really good for Steve. But yeah, COVID definitely didn't help. Which he didn't for a lot of musicians. It wasn't just Steve, it just didn't help. Yeah, well, I'm glad that he got the help. There's a lot of people commit suicide. And I'm glad that he had that experience where he opened up to you and was in crying or in pieces or whatever he was and said, I need help. That's what you have to do. So I'm glad that he did that. And I'm thankful that you were there by his side to help facilitate all that. So always be proud of yourself. Is there anything that you want to say that you haven't said to everybody? I guess you pretty much covered everything. Is this helping you? Yeah, it helps me. I'm loving it that people are keeping Steve's memory alive. And I just plead that people continue to keep his memory alive. Like Todd was saying, even long after I'm gone. Music's alive forever. People come and go, but especially now with live streaming and you've got the internet and things bat around till the end of time. And I just want people to just keep his memory alive and the music and just generally Reaper and all the other stuff that he did as well. You know, it's interesting. I'll just gonna pause you right there. The day before, sorry, the day he passed, the Holmes family or Kathy and Chris, they texted me. We just talked to him yesterday. Yeah. So like you knew it wasn't like cancer or anything like that. It was like, Jimmy, what happened? There were the first people who texted me. Like as soon as it sort of went on the internet, you know? And then we just talked to him yesterday. We just had a conversation with him. Like we were talking to him last night. What's going on here? And I don't know, I didn't know what happened. You know, it's a double-edged sword, I think, when someone passes away unexpectedly, like there was no preparation. Like on the one hand, it's good because it was peaceful and asleep, right? Like we should all hope that that's how we pass away. At the same time, you feel robbed because, you know, you didn't get, I mean, you don't wanna see somebody suffer, but when somebody's like terminal or you know that they're dying, it's happening, you can prepare, you can kind of mentally in the best capacity that you can, you try to prepare for what's coming. You can, you know, cross those T's and dot those I's. You can say all the shit you never got to say. You can right the wrongs, you can say how much you love someone, you can kiss them a thousand times, you can do everything, you know, and but you don't wanna see somebody suffer where even though you have this preparation time, but then again, you have, you know, you didn't get to say goodbye the way that it would have been otherwise, but you're also thankful that he wasn't suffering and he went to sleep and that was it, it was peaceful. It's gotta be tough to wrap your, to wrap your head around, you know, this like this, it's like we have unfinished business, you know, like a frustration and an anger like really, like we couldn't just have one more, one more, just one more time, one more time I wanted to say, you know, we always think about, well, there'll be tomorrow, I'll bring that up or I'll do that. You know, someone said death is so permanent, like you just, you know, you can't believe, you know, you'll never see this person again, you know, and I think it's happened in all our lives, right, in one way or another and it's, it sucks. It just sucks. Yeah, it sucks. Well, I don't wanna overstay my welcome, but Millie, I really, my heart is with you and I very much care for what you're going through and again, my sincere condolences and, you know, if there's anything I can do to help in any way, you have my, I mean, we've texted on our cell phones, you can call me, hit me up, always be an open ear for you and any links that we can help spread around our socials and the community to raise money, whether it's for personal things that need to be done at home or funeral expenses, you just let us know and we will gladly do everything we can to try to help raise funds to ease that burden. Thank you. Okay. And I mean, that's sincerely, so I'm gonna sign off, I'm gonna let you guys say bye. Hang on, just wait, we're all gonna, we're gonna wrap it all up here. Just hang up. Max, good, good to see you. Alan. Good to see you too, brother. Don't knock off yet, just wait up one minute, one minute. It's just gonna sign off for everybody. Max, do you have any last words you'd like to say? No, it's a big shock to me. I'm still kind of reeling about it. My heart goes out to Millie and his kids and Mark and everybody else. I just hope that you can weather the storm. It's a blackness that doesn't go away, but time will probably make it a little less hard to bear. But as Todd says, we're all with you and anything if you want to pass us legs or anything we can do to help you with these bullshit expenses or whatever you need. So, I'm just really, really sorry. And it's way too soon for him to be gone, so yeah. Alan. Hey, just know that he was loved and we continue to be loved and he's left quite a great soundtrack to our lives and we can all enjoy it for forever, like you said earlier. Millie, you get the last words. You get the last words, Millie. Yeah, I just wanna say thank you again and thank you to all of you guys as well. You've been so kind and just said some lovely things about Steve and I really, really appreciate that. So thanks for coming on here and sharing your memories as well and stuff. All right, the links are in the video. Everybody, they're there. Have yourself a wonderful night and you know, rest in peace, Steve. That's all I can say.