 So good morning and welcome everybody to CSIS. My name is Carl Meacham and I'm the director here of the America's Program and I'm really glad that you could join us this morning for our conversation with medium Luisa Leyva Viamonte. As you all know, she's a human rights activist and journalist from Cuba and today we'll be discussing recent changes in Cuba, the island's role in the Western Hemisphere and the trajectory of US-Cuban relations. This is a particularly exciting event and time to have my medium with us here today. She's visiting with folks in the administration and in the Congress. I'll leave it up to her to talk about her views on recent changes in Cuba but I'd like to give you a brief view of where Cuba is now and what we might be able to expect from the island in the near future. As I'm sure you all know, Fidel Castro formerly handed over the country's leadership to his brother, Raul in 2008 and since then, Raul has enacted a series of reforms, most of which focused on Cuba's economy. More than at any point since the Castro's took power, Cuba's economy is open to foreign investment for the first time. Cubans have some limited access to the internet, for example, but even though these changes are not insignificant, they are modest. But it's pivotal that we recognize the limited scope of these reforms. They are economic, not political or structural. The government is still miles away from being a democracy. Diversity of political voices is still strictly limited with frequent repression of the political opposition to Castro's government. The respect for even the most basic human rights remains tenuous at best and it's in that context that the U.S. must constantly reevaluate its own history with the island. I'm very excited also to have Thomas Bilbao here, the executive director for the Cuba Study Group, who's also a senior advisor, senior fellow here at CSIS and he's gonna be doing some of the question and answer period. He's gonna help me moderate this wonderful session today. Thankfully, Medium is here to shed some light on some of the issues that I mentioned today, particularly the country's current environment for human rights and civil liberties and to address the challenges we face as we move forward with this relationship. A couple of details on Medium. She's a Cuban independent journalist and human rights activist. Once a diplomat for Cuba, Medium Luisa is intimately familiar with the inner system of Castro's government, preoccupied with the situation of human rights. She then became one of the founders of the movement Damas de Blanco, Ladies in White, to advocate for amnesty of political prisoners, earning them the Andrey Sakharov Award for Freedom of Thought from the European Parliament in 2005, the 2006 Human Rights Award from Human Rights First and the Human Rights Award from the Cuban Hispanic Foundation in 2004. As a journalist, Medium Luisa's works have been published in the International Herald Tribune, the Miami Herald, El Nuevo Herald, newspapers and magazines in Sweden, France, Slovakia and posted on salon.com, Cuban net, Cuban encuentro, liberal, or libertad, digital, et cetera. In 2004 and 2005, her work as a journalist earned her the member of the jury of the Reporters Without Frontiers Prize. The usual rules apply for today. We're on the record. We're webcasting, so hello to all of you guys who are watching this event today. And for the Q&A, I would ask that you wait for one of my members of my staff to get a microphone to you and please identify yourself and ask a question. We're also gonna be having Thomas run the Q&A session. First, we're gonna have Medium, of course. And without further ado, Medium, the floor is yours. Thank you. Sure. Hello, everyone. I'm very excited to be here with you because, you know, Cubans, we cannot travel abroad. Well, now we are starting to be able to do so. And of course, I was looking forward to meeting here with you and thank you for having me here. And of course, getting to know more about the United States and about Washington and about everything. And well, the situation in Cuba has changed. It's true that these changes are very limited. That they don't go forward very easily, very fast and sometimes you feel that they're going backwards. But the situation is quite different of what it was. Let's say before Fidel Castro's illness in 2006. And I think that this is due to the very difficult economic, mainly economic situation that the government has. Fidel, Raul Castro inherited a Cuba in almost in bankruptcy. Decapitalized all the industry's infrastructure and he hasn't been able to move the economy to produce, to export, and it's mainly importing. And since Venezuela is each time weaker, there are more problems. And Cuba lost the support of the Soviet Union and all the communist bloc, but replaced it with Venezuela, mainly not only the oil, but exporting services that is mainly doctors and other personnel. And that's the main income that the Cuban government has. Then if, well, a situation in Venezuela worsened or changes and they have to cut, there would be the first place problem with the oil, with that it's not only for Cubas needs, but also the Cuban government exports some of it. And may perhaps also these services from people who are working there would be caught or might suffer. Then Raul Castro has been trying to get other ways of means, economic means, but they don't have any savings, they don't have money to invest and they need foreign investment. That's why there is a new law. It's less restricted than the previous one, but anyway, there might not be yet enough guarantees for the investors. The government is saying that they need $2.5 billion yearly in investments. And you can think that if they're starting now, they won't get any benefit if they get some in three, five years. That's from the economic point of view, more or less very fast, I'm telling you. Some economists think that the situation in Cuba, if Venezuela is caught, it's not going to be as harsh as it was in the 90s when the Soviet Union was lost. But at that time, Cuba had a better industrial basis. Also, they had reserves from all the imports from the Soviet Union and wages had a little more value. People could live a little better. The situation in general was better than it is now. Now everything is crumbling in Cuba. The government doesn't have any resources. So if there's a sudden cut from Venezuela, I think that the country, the people are going to suffer more, although some say, well, now Cuba produces 50% of the oil that it needs. But anyway, Raul Castro proclaimed the power revolution, the electricity, the revolution, and then he made, for instance, he made all people cook and use only electricity. So imagine if there are blackouts any time. You can see many, many other things that could happen. Well, that's from that point of view. Also, they have been building this Mariel port and the special economic zone with the Brazilians. Of course, this is looking towards the United States. But again, the port isn't finished. There is a great competition with other ports in the, around the Caribbean and even the American coast. And also, this economic free zone is supposed to work when foreign investors come. But it depends on foreign investment. So I think that the situation is quite complicated and the Cuban government is tied, Raul Castro is tied with these reforms. He knows that he has to bring about reforms and changes, but again, they are very afraid of them because this can also mean that people feel more independent and they start asking for political freedoms. And also, because they don't feel safe, they say, well, if there are changes in, that's what I think. Maybe if there are changes in Cuba, people will start asking for justice. Then, well, in regarding human rights, they're still very tied. There's a little opening in allowing travels and Cubans to travel abroad. It's very important that Cuban Americans are traveling and this is on the part of the United States government that has allowed Cubans to go more and some Americans to go more to Cuba. And of course, the remittances from the relatives. And this has been very important because this has made a great change in not only the lives with economic means of the Cubans, of many Cubans, but also from the point of view that you exchange views, that you learn what is going on, many travels traveled to the United States and it's helping opening Cubans' minds. It's helping be more open, talk more. And of course, no things that the Cuban government has always been prohibiting and you can even learn here, I don't know, a gadget that you didn't even know that it existed. It's so wide, it's so many things and also Americans going to the United States. Of course, there is repression. There are dissidents, opponents that are very brave and they are repressed, but little by little, they have changed. Previously, for example, they took in 2003, 75 persons to peaceful people to the jail for up to 28 years, some of them in prison. And now, the prison terms are very short. They prevent you from doing a meeting or they take you some hours to a police station, but little by little, it's a little more open. Although it can close immediately and there could be a great repression, but I'm trying to summarize so much that I think I'll stop here. Well, thank you for your opening remarks. I have a couple of questions before I hand it over to Tomas. You talked a little bit about the Venezuela situation. Is there an awareness or a palpable feeling on the island or concern regarding the economic situation in Venezuela? Well, Raul Castro tried to, he traveled, he tried to go to some other countries, friendly countries to get economic support and he realized, I think he realized that you have to pay, you have to trade, you have to, and he didn't get the support he wanted. And the people, the Cuban people are very concerned. They're thinking that what happened in the 90s with the Soviet Union might happen now. And for instance, when Hugo Chávez was dying, people including say, oh, poor Chávez, no, all you could hear was, oh my God, what is going to happen to us now? Well, thank you, and Carl for hosting the event, for allowing Medium to participate in your program with such great events. I would be remiss if I didn't invoke the memory of Medium's late husband, Ocarepino Sachepe, who if any of you had the honor to meet was a wonderful, wonderful man who made amazing contributions to the study of Cuba's economy and the push for human rights in Cuba. So I wanted to mention our good friend, Ocare. Medium, thank you for providing the perspective. I think it highlights some of the economies that we deal with here in the United States, which is that the Cuban government is in an economic situation where it feels forced to have to reform. In other words, its motivation for reforming is because it must improve the economic situation on the island to maintain legitimacy or to maintain political control. At the same time, it's implementing reforms, such as allowing self-employment that let go of a little bit of that control. You mentioned that remittances and travel have been important to Cuba, yet in the United States, there are those who charge, if Cuba's only reforming because of economic pressure, why should the US help relieve that pressure by allowing money to go to Cuba? So I was hoping you could address that, but I think we should have a second question. Well, I think that in the first place, the Cuban government has always been saying everything is because of the embargo, everything is because of the Americans. That people don't believe that, it's been a long time that people don't believe that. But anyway, imagine receiving all the remittances. And I don't know what percentage, but very high percentage of the Cuban population knows that their living, their quality of life is not so, so bad, although it's bad, because of what they're receiving from the United States, from their relatives. Also, this money is used by the self-employed people. So businesses are opening more because of this. The more they receive, or not only money, but maybe if they receive some type of equipment, and it could widen the possibilities, and there could be more and more of these independent businesses that make people independent, that allows them to, not only to be independent from the government, but also to ask for more. The government opens a little and then makes these restrictions and say, well, you have to pay these high taxes, you can't do this or that, but more and more they're trying to get that open. Besides, the government is going to, it has to unemployed around one million people because most of the enterprises are state-owned. Where are they going to work? If they have possibilities to start their own businesses, small businesses, it's wonderful for the Cuban population that the Cuban people feel that they know that. Besides, well, of course, traveling and coming here, it's very important. And also, Americans going to Cuba because it's this exchange of views, and if Americans were able to, it also send or not only send because you're helping and they're not going to pay anytime. It could be loans or, I don't know, different forms. This could not only open Cuban people's life and economy, but also their minds. And of course, the Cuban government is going to receive something from this. But I think that the main issue is how the society is opening, how the minds and the possibilities of having another alternative to that of the government. Of state-owned property and society. It's very, very important. And you can see it, you can feel it everywhere. And that is why Raul Castro and all the government is only trying to put small reforms because they know that this may endanger their power. And I think you can feel it. It's not the same six years ago than what you can feel now. And besides, if one little business opens here, it has many people working to supply different things for that business. So this independent economy is widening, it's opening. Well, that brings me to my second question, which is the constant debate here on whether or not there have been, quote, real changes in Cuba. You know, Oskar, in your book that you published, talks about Cuba's changes being few, late, and limited. And I think we can all agree with that. The debate here many times, or some would like to suggest that they're not, quote, real changes. Meaning, for example, that the independent entrepreneurs aren't really independent because they are so beholden to taxes and licensing from the government. Can you talk about whether or not, especially when we're talking about the Cuentadropistas, whether or not these changes that we've seen, including access to internet or travel, are real changes or are they just cosmetic changes that Cuban government is doing to show a more positive face to foreign investors? Well, the government started with these cosmetic changes, but it's impossible, you know, to go back. And they try, maybe they make a step, a step, and then they try to go back, but it's impossible just to shut that or to liquidate that. It's impossible for them. It's limited, they're too late. Raul Castro said, well, we don't have to hurry. But in fact, they are losing time. And if they don't do more in this now and this next years, how would they maintain that power? What is going to happen? And we cannot lose this years because they're defining, this is a defining time, you know, for them and for all of us, for everyone who wants to help Cuba or who wants changes in Cuba. Of course, they're limited. They sometimes go back and, you know, back and forth. And because the government's trapped. They're trapped in their capabilities and the capability of the system, of their own, their minds, and their fear also. So it's time not to close, but to try to open. I have a follow-up question on Human Rights, but I thought we'd open up to questions first. Just one thing. There was a letter today that came out, an open letter to President Obama that is signed by members of the public and private sector. You have folks from the exile community. Andres Fanguil is on it. You have John Negroponte, former Deputy Secretary of State, former U.S. Senators on this that actually is asking for reform in different areas from travel to increasing support for Cuban civil society, prioritizing principled engagement in areas of mutual interest. I guess that's a person of people to people or expanded people to people. What do you views on this? I know you guys are familiar with this. I think you're the leader of your organization is on it. Yeah, and we played a role in this. So I don't want it to appear that this is a coordinated effort, but it was completely coincidental that Miriam happened to be here at the time, which is, I think good, because it gives us a perspective from at least one voice inside the island of the question we asked earlier. If things are changing in Cuba and we think there's an opportunity, should the United States act or do those steps like opponents would charge actually embolden the Cuban government? So maybe Miriam can speak to that about the letter. No, I think it's very positive to try to interact more with Cuban people, to be there, to be able to, because I don't remember all the points that, to expand, for example, travels for more Americans to go there, to be able to grant loans also, to increase the support. This is a way of increasing the support to civil society. And I've always, and my husband too, for many years tried that Americans could go freely to Cuba, could travel freely to Cuba. That's very important. This exchange of, you know, among people, it's very, very important. And of course, trying to help in all this, this would help a private sector, this would help the Cuban society as a whole. And I think it would be very positive, I think, all the things. Excellent, I am gonna open it up to, for some questions, you can find the letter www.supportcubancivilsociety.org, just in case folks are interested in it. And I'm gonna open it up to questions from the audience. Would anybody like to ask a question? Well, while you all think of what question to ask, I'll do a follow-up question on human rights. Mia, we've seen reports about the number of arbitrary detentions of peaceful dissidents going up. About meetings or especially, a lot of attention's been called to the tensions of the harassment on the ladies in white. Can you talk about the human rights situation? Why do you perceive there's been an increase in repression? And if so, what do you think explains that increase? Well, first of all, I can tell you that I'm no longer in ladies in white. I was one of the founders, but I was in the ladies in white until 2008. I have very good relations with them, but I'm not working with ladies in white. I think that the repression has changed. Some years ago, they would take you, well, some years very, at some time ago, they would even shoot people. But afterwards, they would take for long-term prison. You had to serve long prison terms. Also, you could not meet. If two or three people were going to meet, of course, the government knew that were opponents. So they were prevented from getting to that place. They were maybe taken for longer terms to the police stations, not police station, but security police headquarters. That is very, very, conditions very, very tough. And now, of course, there are more people openly protesting or opponents. And the government tried to prevent this meeting. They are taken to police station most of the time, less and less to the headquarters of the security police, that is the political police, and they are released. Sometimes they bring these mobs that yell and they can even hurt someone in this struggle, or simply yell at the opponents that are very peaceful people. And we know that all those mobs are organized by the government. Everybody knows that. And I think it's a different type of repression that, well, Raul Castro has wanted to show that he isn't so repressive, it's not so strong, and it's in this, let's say, low level. But it is there, it's maintained, and you cannot be confident that any time this could change and there could be very, very harsh, very repressive, you know. So it's another way, mostly because of international, showing international. Well, that brings me to my next question, which is on the European Union. Cuba is now in process of dialogue with the European Union to replace the common position with a new type of policy. Can you comment on that dialogue? Well, I think it's positive, because this position, the common position of the European Union wasn't working. It was there, the Cuban government said, our relations with you is very bad because of this position. Also, the European Union supported the opposition and was very harsh on denouncing regarding the Cuban government in 2003 when the crackdown. So the Cuban government simply cut the relations and they were very tense. Then it little by little improved after the European Union proposed, I think it was 2008, more or less 2008, to ameliorate the relations and what the Cuban government tried to obtain was bilateral agreements with the different countries and this was a way also to harm this common position. So I think it's important now, there are 28 members of the European Union and around 17 have this bilateral agreement. So it's better for them to get together again and to have a common position towards the Cuban government. And of course, to be in Cuba, it's very bad not to be there and not to be able to know and to influence, the same I think regarding the United States. It's better to be there, to be able to interact with the society to have your interests there, your enterprises and it's not only your benefit, it's that you're benefiting the Cuban society. I think we have some tweeted questions here. Okay. From one of our Twitter followers, where does Cuba's youth fall politically? Do they support the castras? Are they politically active? Where are the Cuban? Youth. Ah, youth. Oh, the Cuban? I'm sorry? What's the name? That's such a mid-year brief. Okay. One of our Twitter followers based in the US. Cuba youth, most Cuban people were born after, 70% were born after 59. Youth, they don't believe what the Cuban government say most of the youth. And it's very sad that they want to leave the country because they don't see present or future in Cuba. Sir, if you could. Microphones? Yeah. Let's get up. Maybe you could identify yourself, please, in your affiliation. Thank you. Orlando Luis Pardo Lasso, a blogger from La Habana. Gracias por estar acá, Amelia y Tomás. One question, one point, two possible scenarios. Do you, the rationale behind the fact that economic changes or investment in Cuba will lead to political opening or democratization in Cuba? The rationale behind this is that the investors are going to fool the Cuban government. So little by little, the Cuban government will do something that will somehow deconstruct the government. Or the rationale behind this is the Cuban government is the only legitimate actor in Cuba now. There is no other actor, and therefore, we will recognize them, the factor. So how do you consider both? Cuban investors can change Cuba. Cubans must change Cubans within the island. And the Cuban government is trying not to lose power. They've been on that for 56 years. And they will try to maintain power. But little by little, or as much as you can, Cubans can do. And also, the international community can help. But it depends on us. And of course, it's the same struggle. The Cuban government doesn't want to give up. And we have to push the changes. Quick question. So you've been able to come here. Ioannis Sanchez was here. Other folks have been able to get out of Cuba. We had el Isardo and Coco Farinas here at CSIS. CSIS last year. Why? Why do you think that's happening now? Well, in the first place, I remember that in 1991, 1992, Raul Castro, again, was also in a momentum, getting momentum because there was this economic and political situation with the Soviet Union and all that. And he, at that time, he didn't say it publicly, but he had the idea to open. Because he said, well, it doesn't have any sense just to have problems, international problems, not letting these people go abroad, or Cubans go abroad. But he couldn't do that. I have an interview of one of his closest aides at that time who spoke about this opening. It was in 1991. So I think he's doing what he has thought for many years. It's useless to have this country close and having problems with the world, saying that this is a totalitarian regime and so on. So that is why I think he has opened the possibility of Cuban traveling. That's for one thing. That's for the opposition, let's say. Let these people go talk, say what they think, and, of course, let the others who support them or who sympathize or not with them to know them and to decide. But there is something very important. When Cubans get a visa, most of them try to stay abroad. And the Cuban government has always used that as lowering the pressure, the social and political pressure. That was the Marielle and other great exodus that the Cuban government provoked. Now they cannot do that. For many years, they haven't been able to do that because of the health burden law. That says that if there is another exodus, this would be considered as endangering the national security of the United States. So they haven't been able to do that. And also, this opening could be a way to get rid of this pressure, I think. I think we have another tweet. Could you stand up and read it? We have a tweet from Shot V. What are the lessons to be learned from Cuba, specifically for Venezuelans? What is to be learned? For Venezuelans. For Venezuelans, that they shouldn't do what the Cuban people have done in the sense of believing what this type of government says and that they should struggle to maintain or to regain their democracy and be a normal society not imposed by the Cuban government and the Chávez regime. Ma'am, if we can get a microphone up here. Hello. My name is Sylvia Yusef from the German Press Agency. Given that this is your first trip to Washington and you probably will be meeting with authorities and congressmen eventually. I was wondering what is your main message? You know that many congressmen, senators are absolutely opposed to giving even an inch to Cuba. So how can you convince them to change their position? No, I can't convince them. They've had this position for decades. I would like them. I respect them very much. But I think, and my husband and I have said this for a long time, that they could open more to know what is happening in Cuba, how Cuban society has changed in the sense that these Cubans aren't the same as they were in 1959. They're different generations and different realities. So I think that they should be more open to what is needed right now. You're right here to get the microphone. Mary Gundersen, Department of State. I wondered if you could comment about the Cuentapropistas. If they've had successes in the economic realm, they're being able to start out on their business, and especially what their biggest obstacles are to success. What was the first thing you said? If they've had success in the Cuentapropistas, what is your main message? And another question on that, to add, what are the areas where you are seeing new employment? Because at one point, we had a lot of faladares. Then there was a lot of taxis. Where do you see growth? So all these questions. Well, the Cuentapropistas, it's very difficult, because the government open to or allowed to work in some fields, in some things that are not those that can really move the economy. Let's say the macro economy in the country. But it can help these self-employed people to live a little better. When they get more benefits, when they are successful, the government tries for them not to get rich. And it's not a matter of ideology or a matter of, as the government says, it's principles. No, no, what they want is that people don't be independent, don't be self-employed in the sense that they would be able to have bigger businesses and to be more independent from the government. And they're successful in maybe in a restaurant and things like that. But that doesn't make a difference in the whole economy of the country. And they are trying to get more openness, to work in more fields and more things. The government is trying to tie them by these cooperatives. Cooperatives, they're fake. It's a form of the government to tell them, you can do this, you can do that. Now with the new investment law, the government has said, well, even cooperatives might be allowed to work with the new investment for investors. Why? Because it's all going to be state control. I think that the more they open, the more that counter-appropriate self-employed people can open business, have more means. Imagine people don't have money, they don't have capital for opening. So that is important to get loans or to get assistance, to get equipment, or to get whatever they need. Because that helps them not only to be a hairdresser, but to work in things that really make a difference for the country and for themselves. And to widen the possibilities of self-employment and of freedom. We have another treat. Yes, we have another question from a follower, Abosio. He's asking, what was the impact of Sun Suneo in the island? I don't think there was any impact, really. Well, I didn't know anything about Sun Suneo until it was published by AP, I think, no? Yes. I've spoken with many, especially many young people, a lot of young people. And they said, well, I received this text. And they were, wow, why they say anything about it? It was only sports and news about actors and things like that. But then I said, if they got political, what would you do? I said, no, no, I would cut that. Because in Cuba, if you want to get anything, it's very difficult if you have political opinions. University, going abroad. Because now you don't need an invitation or a permission. But you need a passport. And if they say, we won't grant you the passport. So the government has always used some of this mechanism to repress people. And besides, imagine a society where money, wages are, I don't know, $15 a month, they change. Retire is also, I don't know, they don't get a wage of $20 and a pension of $15. People have to steal to sell in the black market. That's also a way that the government has used to have people not doing, not politically involved, not speaking out. And also that has made a great, it's been very bad for society because there is a great loss of values. So it's very difficult for these young people or anybody in Cuba to get involved in political affairs. They have to say, well, I don't mind. I want my country. Whatever I lose, it's better for my country. But it's very difficult to support yourself, your family, under the conditions that are in Cuba. We're getting a lot of tweeted questions is what I'm being told. But I'm going to let you guys have first dibs first, and then we'll get back to it, sir, in the back here. You had a question, sir? Yes. Yeah, the microphone. Thank you. I'm William Exantis from the Embassy of Haiti. And I have the privilege to serve in Cuba in 1998. And I arrived there February 1990 in the midst of the special period. You mentioned about the economy regarding the situation in Venezuela. And do you think, mainly because of the situation going on in Venezuela right now, that Cuba is running the risk of having another special period? Is Cuba going to have another special period? That might happen. What has been discussed right now is how harsh it would be. If it could be as it was when the Soviet Union collapsed or less. Some very well-known economists say, no, it's not going to be so bad. But my husband and I, we don't think that it's going to be less. Maybe not. Well, you can tell if it's going to be so prolonged, so long. But anyway, imagine also that now still the Cuban economy hasn't gotten the level of 1989. Just that figure, about 30% still, or supposed it's less. If you don't have that level and you don't have any resources, all the country has been destroyed, how is it going to be? We have one more question. Sure. I have a tweet from at CELOS. And he's asking if the Cuban doctors that are involved in the Maize Magicals program bring back a new perspective to Cuba that's promoting change. No, they don't bring back any ideas of promoting changes because they want to relieve their family's problems. And they would like to go again abroad to work. Because if they stay in Cuba, they would like everything as they used to. And that's a great question. We actually were asked to run a seminar on the Pacific Alliance in Wellington, New Zealand last week. And one of the issues that was coming up with conversations with a lot of diplomats was, and the ambassador of Cuba was at this event. And we started learning about Cuban doctors in Samoa in the South Pacific, but also Cubans teaching English to Aboriginals in Australia. How do Cubans on the island see this? Is it an overextension of funding that's necessary and talent that's necessary on the island? How do they look at these efforts? Well, Cubans know that this is needed because the government doesn't have money, and these people have also to live better. But also Cubans are suffering that all the services are crumbling. They're no good doctors anymore. Sometimes if you go to these small centers and medical centers, there would be only a student, a medicine student. And in the hospitals and other facilities, everything is very, very bad. Also because the government can't, doesn't have money to invest. Sometimes you don't even have a band-aid, I don't think. Just to put you something very basic. So and that is the same in the case of education, that there was such a crisis that Fidel Castro promoted with this taking secondary high school kids and making them teachers. And then all the education went even lower and lower that Raul Castro is working on this and has changed all this. No more students in the country feel working. These students that were teenagers, they're not, well, maybe they stay teaching, but they're not going to be new courses for them. And he's trying to make changes for also Fidel Castro said, only university students. We have to have more graduates than everybody, anyone else in the world. That meant that you don't have the other levels of skilled workers, for example. There are no skilled workers in Cuba. So they realized that that is needed and especially now, suppose you come, this foreign investor come, they want to build a factory. Who are going to work there? They have to bring all the materials, all the equipment and besides, they need these people who can work there. So now they're teaching their courses, they have programs for skilled workers or technical level, but that's what people feel. That everything is being harmed by those who have to go away. Yes. Marqueta Bokova, Czech Embassy in the US. Thank you very much for this very interesting discussion. I have a quick question regarding the relations between Cuba and Russia. The Russian foreign minister just visited Cuba and the region, so what's your view on that? Thank you. The relationship with Russia. I know that it was recently the first one. No, the last one. Well, yes, it was a surprise that Mr. Lavrov went to Cuba in the middle of the Ukrainian crisis. And I mentioned Cuba was very close to the Soviet Union. Then it almost, well, they were very close with a cold with Russia and then they started to get closer again. It's a matter of even personal identity. I think that Mr. Putin is very much like Castro and all the castors. So of course, Russia needs relations with those who are closest to them. So I think that's why Mr. Lavrov said a visit to Cuba was very symbolic and maybe to other countries, other Latin American countries was more because of trade. Although it is said, and I cannot be certain about this, that again, they are moving in the military front, let's say. Maybe the Soviet chips using Cuba again more and more. I don't know. This could be, but I don't know. That brings me to a follow-up question which has to do with Cuba's designation again this year as a state sponsor of terror. Karl actually hosted a very good discussion here at CSIS about that. And one of the things we've seen as a year after year, the justification for Cuba's continuing inclement seems to thin to the point that this year, I believe the only mention was US fugitives in Cuba and the presence of some members of Etain Farq in Cuba, although apparently they're there without any objection from Colombia or Spain. People like bringing up Cuba's interference in Venezuela, its relationship with bad actors like Iran or like Russia. As just to continue justification, the shipment of weapons to North Korea, even though they don't appear in the State Department justification. Can you talk about that designation, whether you think it's merited? I think that it's useless, really. I think that it would be better if this did exist because it represents some closing for Cuba to be in some international organizations and have other relations with the American investors and trade and all that. And I think it's a two-way. It's not that I want to benefit the Cuban government. It's that I think that all these institutions, all these Americans should interact, should be in Cuba, and this would be better for everyone, especially for Cubans, for not the government, for Cubans in the way they can even, for instance, come to a training course in that sense. Because how could you say that Cuba is now sponsoring the fact if there are talks in Havana? And also, it's an agreement with the Spanish government. And how many Americans are fugitives in Cuba? I don't think there are many. I think there are very few. So I think that everything has to move on, to move on. And isolation is air for a totalitarian regime. It has been the air for all totalitarian regimes. They all want to be isolated, and that is very comfortable because they can do their whatever they please inside there. And especially in an island. We don't have borders with another country. We're absolutely closed. Let me take one more tweeted question before we wrap up. This has been a very good session. Thank you so much. Your answers to the questions have been candid and thorough. So we really, really appreciate that. This is a question from Milo Prates. And he wants to ask you, how do you see the support for Cuba from other Latin American leaders at the last meeting of SELAC? What was the first question? The support of other Latin American leaders. OK, thank you. SELAC. That, well, although the Cuban government is not what it used to be, it's not intervening and all that. But anyway, it's better to have the Cuban government within an organization. And also compromise with helping a better atmosphere in the continent. It's then to have it free and intervening in what they think it's not going to be this democratic or what Fidel Castro, but what they usually did. Also, of course, there was this group of Venezuela, Ecuador, Cuba, and Bolivia, all the time trying to impose their so-called socialism. And there is another group, mainly Brazil, that is, well, I like Brazilians very much. But of course, Brazil has always had this hope of being a power. And the main Latin American power, in fact, they're very powerful. And it's one of the emerging countries. So I think in these two ways, Brazil and some others had to counteract the influence of this other group, the, what's it called? The, well, the name it has. So that's why they said, no, OK, Union in diversity. Let's unite in diversity. And it's a way that is regarding Latin America, let's say. But also, they had this situation that said, let's be an independent organization, no OAS, no? And United States and Canada aside. And I think it's not only in a political sense or what it used to be, this moral doctrine that Mr. Kerry talked about recently. But it's also because it's a way to say, we are strong. We can negotiate with you in different terms. And also to get an international standard at a higher level. I think it's a bit complicated. I don't think it's so much that they want Raul Castro to be recognized as the great president or the Cuban. It's leading the SEALAC. SEALAC, it's like, say, it's not an organization that has this economic or trade. It's to bring about decisions, let's say, to, how do you say, the consentation. Consensus. Consensus, you know? So there is a great propaganda. It's supposed to be something very important. But when something is happening, it's not the organization that is involved in any conflict or any problem in Latin America. Before I go to Tomás to do the last question, if you'd like, I think we have one more tweet. Is it? Or I'll say it with tweets, tweets. No more tweets? OK. Great. Tomás? OK. Thank you. Media, my last question has to do with the third word that you guys used to describe change. You said they were few, late, and limited. And I want to focus on the limited part. Some people say that the reason these reforms seem to go be half measures is because there's this agreement among Cuban leaders in the government, whether they should go farther or whether they should not. And I recently heard a Cuban economist propose an alternative, which is that Cuban leaders are so afraid of failing in the reforms that they often pull back before they're allowed to fail and that failing is actually a great exercise that they should learn how to do. How do you explain the limited nature or the half nature of the reforms, especially if they're trying to achieve 6% growth or 2.5 billions in foreign investment? First, they are afraid to lose power. Secondly, I think they don't know how to do it. They read, they discuss, they listen to others. But when they're going to bring about that, it's even the minds. Imagine a closed society. Those people who are even next to Raul Castro, they don't know anything else. That's why maybe they've learned something in a trip. They've seen something. They have great limitations in doing everything. And of course, there is also, let's say, the hard, hard liners. It's not Fidel Castro. Well, he's there. He might be intervening. But it's all the people that have lived next to Fidel Castro and that think we are going to lose something, whatever, or a lot. So of course, there must be a pressure from others that don't want changes because they are not capable of changing their minds or they are afraid. It's true. That can exist. But even those who are bringing about or are trying to do something, they are very limited, even in their minds. Thank you, medium. Excellent. I just want to thank you, Tomas, for bringing medium to us. We really appreciate it. Appreciate your willingness to share. Also, medium, thank you so much for this wonderful session. I hope we covered a broad group of questions, of topics, or something else you'd like to say. I just wanted also to thank you. And please, all that long name you have, thank you very much for it. But it's only medium, Leyva, please. So I want to thank you for having me here. Wonderful. I want to thank Tomas Bilbao and medium Leyva for your time. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks.