 Alright, good morning everyone and welcome back to our final event in this online learning series for the East African community region on communities combating illegal wildlife trade. Thank you for joining us today. So one final reminder that these events are supported by USAID Kenya and East Africa through the conserving natural capital and enhancing collaborative management of trans boundary resources or connect project and the European Union through their bioparma program. And this series events has been focused on the EAC region and has been designed to support wildlife conservation and management authorities in the EAC partner states as well as relevant NGOs and community based organizations of the region. So today is our final online learning event. And we are going to be focusing on the future of flood. So I'm now going to hand over to Diane who's going to start taking us through some highlights from the series. Okay, thanks very much live. Let me just put this on to screen share so welcome I hope everyone is still got some energy at the end of the year, even though things are winding down. We've really enjoyed sharing flood with you over the last six webinars learning learning events. I'm going to be running through some key messages and highlights from the overall series. And we are then going to quickly run through highlights from the overall methodology. So Holly and I will be taking you through each step of the methodology quite quickly. Just as a reminder of what we've done over the last few sessions before we move on to other applications and the future of flood. A reminder of what we call spaghetti junction which is really our graphical representation of how the methodology works and the various steps that that you go through in order to use the flood approach from beginning to end. And just just quickly, a few things to say in in a in a sort of high level approach on flood about what it is and importantly what it is not because you know this is not a panacea for all situations it's not something that could or should be used in all context. Just a quick overview of those we've hit on them through each of the sessions but just to summarize. So the flood approach is very structured step by step and iterative approach that helps you to articulate and test assumptions of different groups of stakeholders. In this case, because we're working with existing projects. We're looking at the assumptions of communities and implementers of those projects on the ways that they believe community engagement can help to combat illegal wildlife trade. The flood approach is a methodology that can improve project outcomes and interventions. It's an open source methodology that practitioners can use. It's a tool that helps to articulate logic and underlying assumptions in a project to identify what's working, but also to identify potential flaws in the logic, which might help to identify places where a project might not be working. What it is not it is not something that is for every place and for every situation and that's really important so this is not something that we believe should or could be used in all situations in all contexts, as we'll go through in the next highlights. Part of the presentation. You know that there's a real process of feasibility to assess whether it's right for a particular situation. It's not a blueprint blueprint for interventional project design. And I think very importantly it's not an evaluative methodology this is not something that's going to assess or evaluate in the way that we understand those words for for project performance or achievement. It's a checklist, and it's definitely not something for beginner practitioners this is something that, you know more experienced practitioners would find beneficial would be challenging for beginner practitioners. It's an approach that can help to explore site specific drivers of the illegal wildlife trade. It can shed light on which community based strategies are likely to be most effective in a particular place. It can help to enhance achievement in a project. It can help donors to analyze and improve effectiveness of investments. It can provide lessons for other projects being designed as well as lessons to enhance the response to the illegal wildlife trade at various scales. The core of the methodology the approach is what we call this basic equation. Essentially the benefits from conserving wildlife minus the costs of conserving wildlife need so the net benefits of conserving need to be greater than the benefits from engaging in illegal wildlife trade minus the costs of the engaging in the illegal wildlife trade. So those net benefits of conserving need to be greater than the net benefits of poaching. And that is really at the core of the flood approach is this basic equation. And that equation translates into something that I hope you're now much more familiar with than you were at the beginning, which is what we call the baseline to see. I'm going to do this a few more times today. The baseline to see is the core of the flood approach. I am going to quickly. I still have a few minutes go through the highlights from the first of our substantive methodology sessions so session three. And this session focused on two steps of methodology your screening and scoping and your inception workshop. And scoping. It's very important to define the community, the locality, identify the place the people and gather context on on the particular situation that is going to be the focus of the flood approach. So first part of the methodology. It's very important to assess feasibility, and the methodology provides site based criteria and process based criteria. And again, this is where you, you can really figure out whether the flood approach is appropriate for a particular context. So scoping part of the of the of the process. This involves work with both the implemented designers and the communities to understand the situation, and to expose them to the flood approach. So this we, we highlighted as an exercise that you can do in a very participatory manner with the community to understand which species are in use in a particular area. And I said you want to work to expose the various stakeholders to the different pathways and to the overall flood approach and the TOC. And particularly you want to start exposing people to the idea of assumptions. So the assumptions that underpin the causal logic of the TOC. And to highlight that again the TOC has interventions outputs outcomes and an overall impact, and at each step, moving from one level to the next are assumptions. So these are some of the messages that need to be starting to come out in that scoping phase. This is just an example of a single pathway. In the scoping you also work to get an initial idea with the community as to which of those four pathways they feel is most important in combating illegal wildlife trade. And so you know we outlined a methodology to do an initial pathway ranking during the scoping phase. And now hand over to Holly who will give the next few pieces of highlights. Thanks Holly. Good morning everyone. Great to see so many of you with us still in our last session here of this learning series. So I'm now going to pick up from where Diane left off and start to go through basically our highlights from session for and session five. So those of you that have been with us will remember that session for we focused very much on how we go about creating that implementer designer theory of change, and what the steps are that are involved in that. And of course we again went back to the, the basic baseline theory of change, which is the basis with which we then use to create that implementer designer theory of change by querying their own thoughts against ours. And the very, very directly showed you how we do that by working through with those implemented designers pathway by pathway, their logic from the intervention level to the output level to the pathway outcomes the interim outcomes, final outcomes and up to impact. And the assumptions that filled in at each of those levels. So what were they having to assume would be necessary to make those interventions succeed at giving outputs, the output succeed at giving outcomes and the outcome succeed at the final impact. So you will remember that this is the flow and the session worked on how do we do that how do we get from that baseline to that implementer theory of change, and what is the process. So how did we go through the interviews, how did we do the querying, and how did we then create that next implementer theory of change which is the fundamental basis for our next step. We talked about who was necessary to have in the room, the flood team, the team of implementer designers, and why it was important for those different players and how to decide who was going to be there at that session. We told you about the tools that are used when we're doing this work with the implementer designers so obviously we use our baseline theory of change, and we should began to introduce our spreadsheet tool, which we call our development tool and you all have access to where we begin to query them on the individual statements that take you from your intervention logic through your assumptions to get to your final impacts. And we showed you how we generally use a series of statements so we read out a statement, and then we ask the implementer designers, whether they agree or strongly agree, whether they disagree or strongly disagree. And we showed you that sometimes we use prompts to do that because it helps people to work very well together in groups. So we also then come up with this sort of way of moving from the use of these tools with the flood team helping to work through that. And the tool, the development tool, then giving you pathway by pathway, the basic scoring that has been done by the implementer designers that allow the team then to work on presenting back to them that entire theory of change that they have developed. And of course, we then have the very necessary step of validating that. So, whereas the flood team goes away, having listened and done the interrogating and gone through using the tools, we then come together again with the implementer designers to make sure that we have got things right. And if we don't have things right that we make sure to change them before finalizing that and agreeing together that the whole implementer designer theory of change is stable, and that it is ready for the next step. And a key part which we bring up here just so we don't forget it is that along the line, we mentioned to you that there's going to be need for you to be doing these key stakeholder interviews. And of course, that at the beginning, you pick up on who is needed for that and you use your implementer designers and your and your community liaison to decide what kind of information you're going to need to be getting. And to be looking at all of these three ways of getting it so you need people that have knowledge, people that have authority and people that have influence. And of course, that is necessary at your most local level at your regional level and in this sense we mean regional within the country so it may be a district it may be a province it may be a region. It may be areas that are at your national level. And so, all along you're going to be doing these key stakeholder interviews, as and when you can. So some of them will be done in the field, some of them will be done in the capital city. Some of them will have to be done remotely. And of course COVID will have changed that for all of us. So, let me now come on to the highlights from session five. And those are the steps that are involving both those key stakeholder interviews that I just captured for you. So now you'll be actually doing the key stakeholder interviews. And this is where we're going to do our community field work and construct our community theory of change. So we're using that piece that we now have the implementer theory of change here to take us through these steps to get to our community theory of change. So starting with our implementer theory of change, we showed you how we use that to get from one step to the next. And again, the process that takes you from one to the next. So I know and remember that the community theory of change is a good bit more complicated because it involves us exploring these pathways and their assumptions with different focus groups. And as you may remember those focus groups will be defined early on in your process at your inception workshop, because it may be men and women in different groups. You may have youth groups, they may be separated into male and female. That's all decided at the very beginning. So now when we're with the community, we begin working independently with each of the focus groups. And that takes quite some time. So just to remember that, for example, we might be working on with the youth on pathway be we again work through every one of the four pathways with each of them. But we saw how the youth then bring out their own views about the tangible and intangible benefits to be had in pathway be. And our star diagram shows us then at one quick step, each of the assumption statements that we've worked on, and whether the assembled group agrees or disagrees with them. So this big empty space showing the disagreement, this big full space showing the strong agreements. And then of course do our iterative validation and this is absolutely key that you always check back with your focus group while you're still in the focus group you're playing all of this back to them. So that you make sure that you heard everything as clearly as possible, and that your assembled group agrees with you that you got it right while you're there. I guess there's the next step in in the bigger validation but this is really, really key. And what we can tell you is, as a flood team you'll be working incredibly hard over these days that you're interacting and engaging with the community. And then, in each focus group we you'll remember that we went through this fun pathway ranking exercise, where we let each of the focus groups tell us, Well, what did they think you know in terms of, if they were asked, which are the interventions and which pathway is the most important for achieving our impact. How would you, how would you score them and you see we've got the men the women and the youth, they all said different things there. And that leads us then on to our whole community meeting, where we bring absolutely everyone together to begin to look at what was said at each of the different levels and that community workshop is really important because you have to bring people together to see where their similarities and differences are one really key message to remember is in that whole community exercise, you want everyone there to have been involved in a focus group meeting. So you can't start having people that don't represent the community that haven't been brought in earlier on, because it will create a lot of confusion. So this is all going to be people that have been involved in the process from their start. And again, we go back and we will bring as a team, you will be bringing together the areas to show them on each of these different statements, where they where they had their strong agreements and disagreements, and then bring that together for them as a group to show them all together. Well, this is what the women thought, and this is what the men thought that seemed more similar, but actually the youth had a very very different view on this particular statement that legal wildlife markets exist. So you'll remember that this is how we brought them together to think about these things. And then we had them go back, they go into their individual focus groups once again. And then they talk about all those similarities and differences, and then they feed back again some of their thoughts to the overall group assembled, and then break out again into groups that are mixed between the different focus groups and that's, as I think we covered in that session in such a fun time and this whole meeting is generally very very exciting and very full of energy. So we end this by showing them the different rankings done across the different focus groups. How did they rank the pathways so they can see, for example, something very different in pathway C, something that all three groups were very very similar on pathway B, and it allows them to understand. And then we end that session with a whole group activity, where as a group, they, they stand around together. You could do this anyway, you can do it under a tree, you can do it wherever you are, and have them jointly now do a pathway ranking exercise together and I think you'll find that if you just leave them to the exercise stand back and let them do it together you'll find some really wonderful, wonderful interactions. So that takes us up through path through session five, and I go back to Diane to pick up again on session six. Okay. Great. So session six. This is last week, two weeks ago, and this covered the last three steps in the methodology. It covered the feedback workshop, communicating lessons learned and monitoring and adapting. A very important stage Holly just talked about during the implemented designer process, the step in which you validate the implemented designer to see, you need to do the same thing with the community to see. This would usually take place at the feedback workshop, because there's a lot of information that you gather during the community field work. And so you need to go away as a flood team and really integrate work through all of that information in order to develop the community to see. So your next opportunity to interact with the community would be at the feedback workshop. And again you want to make sure that you've got people represented from the focus groups, all the way through the whole community meeting and into the feedback workshop, so that it's some of the same individuals. And you would do the same same process. Have we got the story right has anything changed since our visit. Is it right. If it's not right working with those community members to figure out what needs to change so that the community to see represents the, the, the thoughts and the opinions of the community. Bring the implemented designers and the community together in the feedback feedback workshop. And undergo a process of identifying and discussing key differences and similarities between the, the two to sees. So places where things are very similar places where there are dramatic differences. So you work through those in quite a detailed way. And again the methodology provides you with some tools and approaches for doing that. With all of that information, you would then facilitate a discussion to explore those differences and similarities, and see if there are ways forward to make adjustments within the project. So at a minimum this would involve the community, the flood team, and the implemented designer, but it would also be very beneficial to have other stakeholders such as policy influences government agencies tourism operators, private sector interests in the area, as well as of course any current or potential donors, because you may need to go to them to ask for adjustments in budget to fund new projects, new interventions that have been identified through this process. And we then move on to step six which is communicating the lessons learned. The methodology doesn't provide huge detail on this because it's incredibly dependent on the objectives of your implementation of flood. So, you know, you may be an academic institution and so what you really want out of this as a journal article. That's quite different from, you know, a revised project implementation plan, as you know something that that can just help improve the project. If influencing policy at national or international level is part of your objectives and case studies fact sheets, or even just a, you know, quite practical resource for the community, and the implementers designer implementers designers as they move forward. I do really encourage you if you do do this work or even if you already have a project that hasn't been through the flood process but is about engaging communities in combating the illegal wildlife trade. We do really encourage you to submit a case study to the people not poaching forum, and of course go go there and explore other projects. It's a lot of rich information there. We've talked through how how you can go about that. We then talked about what happens next so so so the so what. And we went through what we consider to be the transfer of ownership so you know the flood team is sort of shepherding the community and the implementer designers through this process. But as as the individual to sees are developed, and then as those are brought together in the feedback workshop. The intention is that this ownership shifts from the flood team to the stakeholders on the ground, and that they are able to then implement adaptive management based on what has been learned through the process. And that was session six, but I'll pause here to ask if there are any questions or comments I don't know live or Holly if we've got any that have come in through the chat probably not we're rushing through quite a lot of information here. Nothing, nothing so far just people needing to know where they're going to be finding all of this and we're going to have the links at the end of the talk today, and all of you should be able to find the recordings will have been sent to you by grace me on a from IUCN. Yeah, and they are also all on the people not poaching website so again we will share those links in the chat at the end of the, at the end of today's session. Okay, so I think we're on time so I'll pass back on to Holly, who's going to take us into what next for for or different approaches and what next. So, apologies to all that we raced through, but in a way, we felt we needed to really cover everything that we've done so far. But we wanted to do that to put you sort of in a the mood for one of the things that we know people have been asking, which is remembering that everything we've talked about in the session to date has been about existing projects, places where there's already some implemented designer on the ground or a donor working with the community. And many of you have been asking us, but what about when we want to design a new project is flood something that we can use for that. So we're going to just give you some very basics on on that to begin with so that so that you can get an idea of of how to do this. So of course we start with that baseline to develop the implementer designer, and then to prepare that implementer designer to get our community theory of change and that's that's really ultimately what we've been trying to get at, but how do you do that when you're starting from scratch. So obviously it needs to be done in a slightly different way. So we've had long discussions about this and we feel pretty strongly that our baseline theory of change if you're dealing in an illegal wildlife trade project is a very strong starting place. You may need to do some some revision of it but it would be a starting place for any new project. Now they're going to there's this is going to be a bit different and you'll see that it does not work in the same linear way that you would have been doing it with an existing project. So actually you're going to have to be doing two pieces at the same time, and I'll put them up so you can see. So on the one hand, you would be working with the community. And of course, is the critical part of this is that the reason you can't come together and do it together right from the start is that it's very important to hear the different voices in the community, whether that's the men the women, the young men the young women, however that's combined or separated. They need to have a chance to have a voice, because what can often happen is, if you were to just go to a single workshop, right from the beginning, and say let's just develop it together. You're going to get some very dominant voices from the community side. And in fact, if you do a single workshop, they may not even decide to invite young women. They may not decide that it's necessary to have any women. They may say why young men they don't need to be there. So it's very important that they have an opportunity to reflect on this baseline theory of change themselves. So they will not be looking at your partner theory of change now you're I've changed that as you can see to partner rather than implementer designer, because you're doing you're going to be doing this together. But it has to take a first step, and each of you will use the baseline theory of change. So previously, you'll remember that it was linear we took this implementer designer theory of change, developed it. And then we went to the community. This time, you'll be going to the community and to the partner at the same time. Then, after they have had the opportunity to work in their own way against the baseline theory of change. They'll be brought back together. And then you begin the real work of your joint to see, and we could give you the steps in that you can design the steps in that. But what's really critical here is to know that it is going through a different process. So whereas I'll just repeat that, whereas you would have previously said theory of change baseline theory of change to the implementer designer partner, and then to the community, and then get together jointly. This is different. This is going to be baseline to community baseline to partner, and then partner and community coming together to really nail down their joint theory of change. So that's the process for doing it and doing a new project on illegal wildlife trade, and it is just slightly different, but you have all the tools will be the same to be able to use them at each of those steps. Others among you wanted to know how would we use flood for different challenges. If we're not dealing on illegal wildlife trade would flood be useful for other challenges and some of you that have been with us from the start. We'll even remember this was a one of our one of our mentee exercises where we said what else do you think the flood theory of change methodology might be useful for. So we came up together with a bunch of different thoughts. But today, Diane and I decided well let's try and work something through to show you how that might go. So we chose looking at the different things that you had given us as possibilities. And what we chose was another example. So if you wanted to use the flood methodology for this particular example to make all use of natural resources, whether it's legal or illegal whether it's subsistence or commercial sustainable. So you want to make all use of natural resources sustainable, and that's going to be basically your impact statement. So as we talked about it, we looked back on our basic equation and we thought, okay, pretty good it still holds you can change it very moderately and say that the benefits from managing natural resources, minus the costs of managing those resources. So your net benefits of managing natural resources will exceed the benefits from unsustainable natural resource use minus the costs of engaging in unsustainable natural resource use remembering that there could be all kinds of costs of management and there could be all kinds of costs involved in unsustainable use, particularly if it's illegal. And that that then means that your benefits from stewarding and managing those natural resources properly, have to be greater than your benefits of continuing to use things unsustainably. As we went through this we saw this is quite an interesting question for many, many places in Africa, where we're working which is that there's still more benefit coming from unsustainable use, and that's why we're driving a lot of natural resources really into the ground. So this is important the equation still holds, and that took us on to, okay, so how did Diane and I go about developing a project together, where we want to develop our theory of change and then put together a project that's going to do that. So we worked in this in this way, Holly developed a theory of change, and Diane developed a theory of change. And then we began to talk about the similarities and differences that we had. And we didn't go through the whole exercise though we easily could have, because we didn't want to preempt any discussion here, but then we would get together to do that. So we started out. We both went to the baseline theory of change but we replaced that top impact statement. That's always where you start. So we kind of erased everything. And we said okay what would we want to put in here and is there anything we want to keep. So we acted as if we had that baseline theory of change that we've been talking about all along for this training. We looked at, are there things we want to change. And we each did this independently so I'll just run through quickly, some of mine and then I'm going to hand over to Diane and she'll run over run through some of hers. So, when I looked at that statement I thought, mmm, I think I need to change just some wording in pathway a. So I changed that to increase the cost of unsustainable use of natural resources. I looked at the different activities and in pathway a I thought to myself well how about compiling information on any social sanctions or taboos on key species in use. If I then if I did that activity, then I would think, okay if the community then knows about that. They increase their cost of that use in other words if they were going to get sanctioned by their elders, they might not want to do that illegal or unsustainable use. And then I thought about in pathway be is there anything that I wanted to change there. And I thought, well, yeah, I wanted that outcome at that pathway level to change to be communities make the link between sustainable use and long term benefits. If you were to go back to our baseline theory of change you'd see that I've changed that language there from what it previously said, and I even did some changes up here in these higher level cross cutting outcomes and overall outcomes. Lastly, I went into pathway D. And I thought pathway D needs to needs to have a change in there so you can see that I changed everything here in pathway D, but just to point out that at the pathway outcome level. I also made a change so all things were changing in pathway D and all assumptions behind that were changing. And then lastly, I also made a change down here in our in our enabling actions. I changed the wording here of this particular enabling action, which was very focused on illegal wildlife trade. And I thought there's really a benefit to development and of policy and institutional frameworks. But before it said legal so I felt like well on on unsustainable or sustainable natural resources, we might need more policy we might not be already at the legal level. And I thought that policy really needed to drive at devolving user rights. So that's where I made a change. And this was just through a fast way through and and and we didn't, you know, spend hours and hours on this but we did do it independently of one another so I'll turn over to Diane. Yeah, so I also did the same process. I looked at what what existed in the existing baseline and thought that it was the IWT baseline and thought that it was pretty comprehensive so I took a slightly different approach. But we'll be we'll be talking you through a different way of doing this all together but this is just one way. And then I changed the the pathway heading I of pathway a and under pathway a I also put a new intervention around putting in place community monitoring systems to track illegal or unsustainable use. And then I did the under pathway be which had previously just been about communities being empowered to manage and benefit from wildlife specifically made that about sustainable use of wild plants and animals. It's funny, Holly and I often have mind melds. And we've done the same here, where I felt that the first enabling action needed some, you know, needed some adjustment so it's not just about protection and management but about benefits those policy and institutional frameworks for benefits. So, so those were some of the changes that I made. Holly there's been a question in the. I think it's important to take it now. There's been a question about, would you need to in a joint to see negotiate the same long term impact statement. And I think that that's really important that yes you would. Yeah, I mean definitely definitely you would and as we're going to show you the impact statement is really where it all begins. So even in this exercise before Diane and I set off independently, we agreed that statement. So we previously agreed, let's let's work on an example that's about make all use of wildlife sustainable. So the answer to your question is definitely. And if you need to renegotiate any of these things, you'll be doing that in that joint exercise. So Diane and I then as the two players would come back together again, and we would say, Well, that's really weird. So you, you thought that this was a different outcome than I thought it was. So now we have to talk about this, or your logic here was very different. And it really starts down here at the bottom, right. With these interventions and we're going to come on to these actions and talk about them and let you do some thinking around that as well, because we just think that the best way to learn these things is to do them. So, Diane, any other questions that pertain directly, I can go into that. No, I mean there was a question from Michael around the baseline. How that gets developed and I think that was a question about IWT projects with flood. So I answered in the chat but the baseline that we use has been developed through quite a long process of examining projects that engage communities and combating illegal wildlife trade so we believe it's quite robust. It's an existing resource for you to use. So you could take the baseline that exists to start your project whether that's designing a new project or using flood for existing projects. You might want to look at that baseline and say gosh there's something really missing for the context in which we work and make some adjustments but in general the baseline is an already existing resource you wouldn't have to create it to start flood. Yeah, and I think you'll find even from this small exercise that we're going to do that you'll be seeing quite early on whether you need to make adjustments. We think it's quite robust, but in a new area if you're working in something totally different I believe and maybe our colleague is even on this call early on. I was mentioned that the flood framework could work very very effectively for climate adaptation projects, and we tend to agree with that. But you might find it's the case that there's a path an additional pathway that you need. And no one should feel constrained by what, but by what's here it has to work for you. We feel quite confident that it works for illegal wildlife trade. Right, I mean you might end up dropping the the human wildlife conflict pathway in a climate project you know you don't know. Another question from Alma I think I think it's good to take this now while we're in this discussion is, if the negotiation is accepted for the long term impact. Another question is that the enabling actions will be the same if the implementers are different. Not quite sure I understand the question that I think what we're assuming here that the implementers. We're not sure whether you mean there are different players implementing the project we assume that there is a set of players implementing the project. And they may be multiple, they may be from multiple organizations but they'd all be working towards the same end but I'll now please feel free in the chat to, to give us more, more clarity if we haven't understood what you're after. If there is a set of players. Yeah, so, so if there's a set of players. I want to I think I know what you're getting at now. So, if you had, let's just say, you were working in a national park setting and you had a number of different players so you had the park authority and you had the, an NGO, and you had the communities. And if you were all trying to do something together, you would have to expand out what we have here right so you would need to say okay, everyone should get, get an agreement on what is the long term impact. That's for sure. And then you would have to say okay each of you goes and does your development, and then we pull it all together. We definitely have more players we just gave you a very simplified way of looking at it with two players but of course, life is more complicated and you may have more. Yeah, and also to say that the enabling actions are are part of the TOC so they're up for changing and debate and, you know, there may be very different opinions on what those underlying enabling actions need to be. Right, so I'm going to close my chat again and, and move on and we'll have a time at the very end of the session for, for any questions. But we also want to make sure that we have a bit of time to do the exercise that that we have planned for you. So, here we go with sitting down together so so we now know that we're pulling this together right from the communities, let's say have been working on it, the partners have been working on it, and we're now coming together in that in that joint. That that joint theory of change and that's where we're all going to work from ultimately. So you do end up with something that you have all signed up to, and that that's the final piece of that. So on the mural exercise, we want to do something fun today, and we're going to be using mural. For those of you that haven't been with us before on mural, don't, don't panic, we're going to be giving explanation again about how to participate with us. Before we get on to the mural board, which is the place that we go and work, we want you to just take five minutes. And we want you to think about this impact statement, make all use of wildlife, whether it's legal or illegal, sustainable. So that is, we're just taking that as our accepted, all of us that are on the call. So I want everyone to participate in this whether you're on the IUCN staff, whether you think you're just sitting by, whether you haven't been participating up until now. This is for everyone just to have some fun and see how we go about doing this. So, think about this impact statement. And remember back to the four pathways, I'm hoping after seven sessions, everyone remembers the four pathways pretty well. We can, when we get into the exercise we have it there for you so you won't be struggling. But we want you to think about then an intervention that would help you to achieve this statement. So any intervention, it can be any intervention, and it can fit in any of the four pathways. So we want you to come up with like have a sheet of paper next to you right now, and just think of an intervention that would help us get at this. It could be about law enforcement. It could be about benefits to the communities, it could be about reducing conflict with with wildlife, it could be something about a totally different livelihood, and that is not related to any of the wildlife or any nature based livelihood that you think would help us to direct towards making all use of wildlife sustainable. So write that statement down of what your intervention is going to be what action will you take, but then there's another important thing we want you to do and we're going to give you a few minutes to do this. We want you to articulate the assumption associated with that intervention, and we've spoken to you a lot about assumptions assumptions really mean what is going to be needed for that intervention to be successful. We'll be giving you some examples but we just want you to take some time to think about it. So when you say, well, I think we should have strengthened, the law enforcement effort by by the state agency, we need more Rangers. So let's hire more Rangers. The assumption you're making is that if you have more Rangers, they will, in turn, help you to reduce unsustainable or illegal use of wildlife. So you're making an assumption about that action that you've decided to take. If you didn't have that assumption, then you wouldn't be proposing that action. So the assumption has to be true in order for this thing to work this assumption that you're making. And it's complicated to think about these things, but we want you to just take a minute. So you can think about pathway A, B, C or D. You can think of any action you think is important to take. And before we bring you into the board, we're going to then say to you, Okay, but what assumption is going to be needed so you need to write these things down on a piece of paper, because you're going to be sharing those with us and you don't need to think about getting the wording all right or having it all perfect. It's just for us to see how we begin to do this. And again, you'll see I've emphasized here that we need everyone to participate. So IUCN colleagues. We want you guys all in here. Colleagues from SAWAC. We want you all in here and all our wonderful other participants that are here. We would like you to also join in this exercise with us. So is everyone now with us on this board? I hope so, because we've summoned all of you to be here on this board. And I know that all of you are getting anxious about how you want to interact with mural and that's great. So what we're going to do is we're going to have you and I would like Elna to simmer down for a minute. We have our interventions and we have our assumption card. So your action your intervention, you're going to be typing in for us on one of the green cards just hang on whoever's typing just hang on. And your assumption you're going to type on a black card. Now I'm just going to take you quickly to show you what we're going to be doing together and you don't need to worry about this just yet. But I want to just give you an example of what we're going to be doing. So ultimately, where we're going to have you is we're going to be having you bring your intervention and your assumption on to this board. And it has on it. Pathway a pathway be pathway see and pathway D. So you can find absolutely everything that we've talked about is on here and your own intervention or action may be on any of those. We're going to let you choose where to put it and we hope that it's going to be chaos. It's going to take a few minutes, 10 minutes probably, but you're going to now go back up here. And I'm going to summon you back. And you are going to just be so we have to see, not sure what people are doing there, but keep everybody. We got somebody is yeah, I think somebody's just changing the size of the card, try and resist the urge to do that. Yeah, try and resist the urge to do that we can make them a bit bigger for you. But don't you change the size of the cards, please. I'm going to actually have to resize that card, I think, if we can. So just pick a pick a pair, pick a pair. So anyone can start typing on any of these. The minute you start typing, it will belong to you. So you then will take your your activity, you type it into the green one, type in your assumption on the black one, and then you will move them down to this canvas, which is just below. So you'll find it just below. And then you put your own activity. You'll see I made one here, provide information to communities. I'm going to get summon you again, provide information to communities regarding species in legal versus illegal trade and associated penalties. And my assumption was that if communities understand the penalties, it will just dissuade them from being involved in excessive or illegal use. On pathway B. I put one in regulated collection of thatching grass in the park. And my assumption was that if communities gain access to free thatching grass from the park, it will incentivize them to help manage other resources sustainably. And on pathway C. I put in one saying allow communities to eat the meat of animals killed on problem animal control. And my assumption was that if communities gain a benefit in addition to the removal of a problem animal, they will have less antagonism towards the wildlife. And then lastly, I put one in here in pathway D make micro finance available to women in the community for self owned and run businesses. And my assumption was that if women can build small enterprises, they will generate enough income to discourage unsustainable use of the natural resources they depend on. So, again, you see that you're going to be up here creating, and then we're just going to let you go from there to the to the meat one immediately below. And you'll be able to see where you are you take your intervention and assumption, and you move it to one of these pathways. So we might have to be giving you some guidance. We know it's going to be a mess. We know that we hope that it's going to be fun. But what we would ask you is, please just type in to the to the box in exactly what's there, don't change the size of it, please, because it really messes up the canvas. Please just type it in there. Start wherever you want to IUCN crew everybody jump in there. Diane and I will just be watching and helping and trying to clean things up as it goes. And we'll be doing that and then come back together to look at the boards in a few minutes from now. So, everyone can get going now, putting in your intervention and your assumption. If you have any questions. Again, don't forget that you can go to the button that's right here. And I'll show you where that button is again. Go to the button that Diane is pointing at and I'm pointing at and push on that button if you have any questions and it will take you off to another place where you can place your questions, or your comments. So off you go. We're going to let everybody take a take a crack at this. And the green ones don't forget the black ones are your assumptions and the green ones are your action. So don't get them mixed up because we have to keep them separate as you saw down below on the canvas that you're moving to down here you're going to be putting taking your green one and put your green one under my green one, and you're going to take your black one under my black one. And don't forget you can take any green one and you can take any black one you have pairs there of a green and a black and that's your pair. But you can take them from anywhere on the on on the board. I see people are getting at it don't forget though you have to do an assumption. So before you leave to move your green one. Let's get your assumption. Okay, let's get more people active on this you've been seven sessions with us. So hopefully you have some ideas on how to make all use sustainable because this is your day to day work. We can see that there are some that are that are going for it if you have more than one intervention. Yeah, feel free feel free but make sure that each intervention has an associated assumption. The green card needs a black card. This is just like being in a workshop with Post-it notes and cardboard on the on the side of the wall. Yeah, please don't move them without an assumption because they don't really mean anything to us without their assumptions. Okay, I see a good one there community access to resources from protected areas so I assume that means give communities a resource from protected areas and that it will increase their sense of ownership. So that one now needs to be moved to the board below into the into the pathway where you think it fits. Yeah, down here. We see that some have already been added down here but now we have one action that doesn't have an assumption with it. And we have one assumption that doesn't have an action with it. So whoever's done these ones. Please make sure. Diane I think you and I are going to have to do some more assumption training. Yep, that's okay we'll just we'll brainstorm some assumptions. But give it a go. Everyone has no wrong answer here. You're all practitioners so it's just a matter of articulating what's already in your mind. All right, so this one right here empowering communities living around the parks financially, whoever did that please move it to the board below and the pathway you think it belongs in. Don't forget that if you're struggling you can always go down to the right hand corner and zoom out. If that'll make it easier for you to drag things across zoom in and out. Oh, Michael's got it. Great. I somehow want I see Diane one got copied as opposed to moved. So I got sorry it got moved and copied. Okay. People struggling a bit with this I can see. Let's see let's give it some time, because I think everybody who's been on this with us will know about how to do these things and how to take an action, you're all practitioners on here so we know that you know about action. James I see that's a nice assumption. Let's get your, let's get your action in there, seeing what's going on up on the upper board. James just put your action to the left of your assumption. So Holly can you unsummon us because I think it's like, I don't know if you can do that but each time I try to move it's like pulling me back to where you are. Okay, I am. I'm not sure you can I can you move now. Yeah, thank you. Okay, I'm not sure who did support both illegal and legal well life activities as part of sustaining livelihoods. But could you please put that together with an assumption. And if your assumption is one of the ones on the left, please put it over there to the left. I don't know if these go together, Diane I can't tell under pathway B. I think they might certainly these two might. So, should we move that one there. I don't think those two mix. Yeah, that's great. That's a good one. That's a nice one. Michael I saw yours come down and then it disappeared again. I think it's being moved. Okay. So we don't have anyone putting anything in pathway a yet. And I don't see anything in pathway see everything's going into pathway be which is very interesting in its own right. And we have something going into pathway D. So let's give this Diane let's see it's half past. I think we're okay. I think we're good so we're going to just give this a little bit more time. Michael when it moves it keeps disappearing any idea what I'm doing wrong. Quite sure. I'm not quite sure either. It disappears. Let me just see. Whether I can. Yeah, it's there I can see it if you can move it Holly that would die. Where do you want it to be put under C. I think that's where it looked like he was trying to put I see what happened. I see what happened. There's another one there. Okay, there are some that are coming in. I'm going to put it on the chat and zoom so what I'm going to do is I'm going to put those in for people. Okay. Michael I saw yours floating around again. Can you just leave it somewhere and I'll try and pick it up. Okay, Michael, I'm not sure what you did. Somehow you seem to have locked something accidentally because I just tried to move it and I also couldn't, it disappeared. So another suggestion is just use the one that's up there on the board under C on pathway C. Yeah, where Diane is pointing. Just use that one. You seem to have locked your, your thing I can't tell why that happened. Okay. Sorry, that's me I'm just going to get rid of it. What are you getting rid of Diane. Sorry, no, don't worry about it. It's just about to happen. Okay. Okay, so this one can now come down. Okay, I'm just trying to capture the ones from the chat. Yeah, good. Well done. I if you plunk them in I'll get them lined up Diane. Okay. Oh, I've got okay I've got one now so let's just get just want to see if there's anything that's left up bad practices in poaching has not been moved. And I'm not sure what it means but I'm going to put it under reading pathway here. I've just added to on the bottom row of the section, the section, a bottom row of the various interventions assumptions. Okay. So you can decide where they go. Okay, going back up here. Any of them that need to be moved down. So, um, alright so I'll put these so this is pathway D I'll move them somehow Diane yours and mine are crossing each other up so I'm going to stay out of the movement right now except inside we got one that got a little out of size there. Wow. I got to move this out of the way. Okay. It needs to be. Gosh, there's some great ones here. Okay whoever had that really big one. I just moved it aside for a moment. And please feel free to start typing I just had to resize it to get it in the area capturing I'm capturing yours Mary if you can let me know what your assumption is. So Diane do you know whether we have everything from the upper board yet. Okay so from the upper board we. I'll just move some down I'm moving on your behalf, whoever did develop and run community owned and manage tourism businesses into pathway B. Please let us know if that's not the case. Cleaning as we go. I still don't have a create. So I have some that don't have assumptions. Do you want to move them anyway. Yeah just move them down. There's some above Diane do you want to move those or should I get up there and get them promote use of indigenous knowledge and traditional stories and conservation absolutely but goodness where's that one going to go. I would imagine it will go under some. Well, it could go under a I think. Okay. Right. Although it could go under B. Yep so that's a good question. Okay I've got development community enterprise projects but I don't have an assumption yet that one is from Mary. There you go I've got the assumption. So I will just quickly make an assumption. And bring that down. I'm just putting some notes so that we look at things. This one. If anybody can look at that pathway be whoever put in community should perceive tangible and intangible benefits from both. I'm not sure which one goes with it I actually think Diane I'm going to move that one down. And then you people can tell us if it's wrong. Okay, let's put this one in. It's looking really good. Please feel free to keep moving things in if you need to. Okay we seem to have something in each of our pathways. Okay I've got one more from the chat and then I think we should probably, we can all ask where we think that's going to be. So Diane have you checked also the upper board. Yep I'm checking that someone's writing a new one so. Okay. That's getting pretty cleaned up now. I'm going to Diane are we ready for I see there's a we have one in pathway a where there's an assumption but not an action. Okay so that should actually be black so I'm just going to move it across. It's black. Oh, oh you've changed another one. Okay. And pathway a I've just got a loan assumption. Yeah, and I've got a loan assumption and pathway B. I mean I think these it's fine. It's no big deal. That's fine. Okay so I think I've captured everything from the chat and I've captured everything from the upper board so I think now because we're going to run out of time. Yeah, we've got. Sorry. Yeah just to quickly run through so I was going to send everyone. Absolutely so everyone stop doing your. Little thing although I could see people were getting into it. And maybe just hands off and follow Holly so we can have a discussion now. Okay, so I don't know Diane do you want to work through the first one and I'll do the second one or whichever way yeah we're now in pathway a which is about. Let's see what it is increased costs of unsustainable or illegal wildlife use. So, I'm just going to summon everyone to make sure you're with me. So we've got an action provide information to that was Holly's one so we don't need to go over that. We've got another one which is increased application of penalties for illegal use by local authorities. Okay. That's the action, and then there were the assumption is that there would be sufficient capacity or desire within local authorities to undertake greater monitoring of prosecutions. I mean I think that that's right. That's, that's pretty perfect. Yep, and then we have one that was put in here as an assumption which is poaching is hard to regulate due into law enforcement susceptibility to bribery so that is I think we would all agree a very true statement. What you would probably want to do is is the way that you would assumption that you would phrase that is in order for an action on anti poaching to be effective your assumption is that poaching is well regulated, and that bribery is not a problem. So that's just how you start to think about assumptions is that what are the statements that have to hold true in order for your action to have effect. Right and you know because there isn't an action that's been given on this one is very that is an important assumption and it'd be very interesting to see if you were developing a project what kind of activity, could you begin to take if you wanted to try and, and reduce that susceptibility to bribery. So, you may think about what you want to do there. For example, if you increase the penalties that someone might think oh I better not get involved in it and so you would, your action would be to increase penalties. There could be make make initial offenders will have mandatory jail sentences, things like that would probably begin to bring that more under control. In the set for the sake of time. Shall I move on to the next morning so if we're getting tight on time. Yeah, so we'll just go through a couple of these because it's really just for people to be able to see what we're doing so one of you said to on this one is as you will remember it's about increasing the incentives for stewardship. So one of you said well community to reach agreement on how sustainability will be managed and monitored. So you'll be doing some kind of activity around that. And your assumption is that the communities of course will have the rights to benefit and manage the wildlife, which is absolutely key. It's a really good pairing. If we look at the next one here, improve community access to non consumptive tourism value chain, and your assumption is that increasing the benefits from the presence of wildlife in the area will reduce the desire to exploit it. They're, they're quite fun. So then support both illegal and legal active wildlife activities as part of sustaining livelihoods. Your assumption is that community should perceive tangible and intangible benefits from both. So that's, that's really interesting one, because I think I mean I think that's, I think that's good right so that's basically saying if you're if your objective is sustainability, then even illegal activity. As long as it's sustainable. Right, be encouraged. Right. So that's a tricky one to think about because it requires some reverse logic thinking about allowing something that doesn't have a law allowing it, but it may still be sustainable. So then this one disseminate inspiring stories of communities enjoying the benefit of wildlife. If community that's the action if communities access inspiring stories on the value of wildlife, it will motivate stewardship that's a really interesting assumption. You really challenge yourself like why do you think that. And do you know, you know, what are the reasons behind that kind of assumption, because you wouldn't ever want to take this activity unless you believe that this assumption will lead you to that to the the impact that you want to have. So these are all excellent development run community owned managed tourism businesses. So that's the action and increase household economy through legal use reduces need for illegal practices, cool. Great. I think we should move on to the next one. Okay, so we're just giving some examples. We'll bring you over and share one or two from here. So there's a great one here which has developed community cluster farms protected by electric fencing to reduce human wildlife conflict. And the assumption is that community members will actually be willing to move to these plots if they are constructed. So you could have a great plan and get financing for fencing and everything and then the community says no thanks will stay where we are. So it's important to challenge those assumptions. Another one is the provision of rainwater harvest tanks or facilities near the park. And the assumption is that this will reduce conflict associated with water collection from the park, as well as, you know, exposure to diseases, improving community well being. Please put mine in the matrix I failed I did it sorry but I copied that across as well. So those are a couple from pathway C, and then pathway D Holly if you want to do that one. We'll do this really quickly because we're really late on time today we knew this would happen that we would get a little bit late so some of you might end up staying a few minutes after. So make microfinals that was the one I put empowering the communities living around the fire parks financially. This can be achieved by park authorities by equally sharing resources obtained from parks. So those in a way or two activities. It's really important for people to see that this one on the right this this needs to be reworded as an assumption that would be that if you gave them that that ability to share, they would then they would then help with that keeping you sustainable. But this is about resources. So we would not put this in this place, because this is about park resources, and yet this pathway is about things that are directly not wildlife based. So we would actually put that in pathway be improved rangel and management for farmers are willing to work together and invest more time and manpower to improve management. Yeah, cool. So I think this is giving you really quickly we can figure out a way to tidy this and provide it to you so you all have this as a takeaway from our from our session here. But this was really just to give you guys an idea of how do you start, where do you start, you have an impact statement at the top, which we've all seen this impact statement. And then you're going to have that and then you're going to work towards all of this starting at the very bottom with your activities, working your way up through that to your outcomes, and then eventually hoping that you can achieve your impact. So I'm going to break from here now. And we're all going to go back to the zoom. I will share my screen, because we are running a bit late but let me get into the PowerPoint. So let's get everybody back on zoom with us. So basically, that's just been our attempt to let you see and begin to play with the other uses of the flood methodology we actually the more and more we play with it and the more and more we talk to people and more and more useful we do think it is. Let's take an opportunity now just to give the floor to Leo to talk a bit about what next for flood and he's just going to give us a few comments on that. So Leo from IUCN is sorrow who's been leading this project please Leo the floor is yours. Thanks Holly. Good morning, everybody. Yeah, we just thought as we are winding down this online learning event. I want to talk a little bit about what's next for flood. So these online learnings we've been doing over the past several weeks have really been part of our efforts at awareness raising about the flood methodology and training capacity building so that this this this methodology can be used as widely as possible. And that's really important here because what we ultimately want is that this methodology which we know is useful. We've heard a lot about examples of how using this can really bring out some very positive outcomes it can help change interventions it has potential to design better interventions. It can be a proof of concept. But this methodology has been so far used in a relatively few sites, a few geographical areas by a very few pool of individuals, most of whom are on this call. What we really want to do is, is we want to go. We want to take flood to scale basically and how do we do that so that's really what we're going to be focusing our attention on in the coming months and years, and Holly maybe you can go to the previous slide. So, yeah, so so we mentioned this before and many of you already know about is a pretty taken a look at it so we did develop a guidance document early on, which does describe the methodology etc. As we've said many times before to actually be trained in this pretty complicated methodology, you need more so we've been working with the Southern Africa Wildlife College who also on this call and be participating with us to develop more detailed guidance. So an implementation guide that builds on on what we have already but also facilitation guide help others train flood and how do you actually facilitate the process etc etc. So we are now going to be focusing on finalizing this and this online learning event has been extremely useful in a number of ways and we've learned just from from teaching this online which was not the original idea we've we've learned things and we've learned what they emphasize and some some tricks of how to train this so that will benefit us now as we move towards finalizing the implementation guide and facilitation guide with Southern Africa Wildlife College. And also we do want to use all these sessions have been recorded and you know they will be used again for others to benefit from. And also, given the COVID times, you know that the traditional training sort of workshops where a lot of people come together and you know get trained over several period of, you know days is not really possible at the moment. We realize that just doing flood online is not adequate either so we need to kind of figure out how to best have a blend and how do we how do we do this effectively. So we will be looking at that but the aim is to have this comprehensive training course done by by middle next year at the latest. And we will be piloting that still and probably will have some online pilot, maybe even physical if it's possible training workshops on that so so stay tuned because we will be informing you of how that goes. Okay, then Holly maybe on to the next slide. Yeah, but then, you know, as I said you know obviously we want to get this methodology out there want others to take it use it. So that we're not so dependent on a couple of people who use the methodology before so so training of trainers is very important. And asked already in one of the previous events if there was interest in being a trainer in flood and then there was some positive feedback so we will be following up on that and others who would like to be trained you know people who've been following this course for example have a good foundation but we'd like to go into more in depth training of trainers and then that way hopefully they'll be a snowball effect and many other people could be trained across the region. So that's the idea so that's certainly something we're going to be looking at and how we do that exactly and when not yet sure we're going to discuss that but that's definitely the plan to make flood more sustainable. We would also like to institutionalize it if we can into some of the relevant training institutions in the region so wake up wildlife college for example and marketer in Uganda. They've already expressed an interest and they've been participating on and off in this online series. So these are regional institutions. So we want to explore with them how could this fit into their curricula. We want to be custom design something for flood so that many other people after projects such as connect and buy a pama and so in East Africa and Southern Africa they'll be institutions that would be able to actually train people. Relevance you know managers and practitioners to use this methodology. So that we're going to be exploring that we don't know exactly how it's going to work and whether you know institutions would welcome this and could it fit in. We'll be here and maybe that's something that we'll be asking you about also in the survey monkey questionnaire that's going to be coming and live will explain that a bit later is that there might also be some national level institutions that might be interested in this the AWS has training institutions. I'm sure you got in the wildlife authority run the development board Tanzania. Proteged area authorities to so maybe there's even national level institutions so that's something we're going to be exploring and we're going to be having discussions with those sorts of institutions. Obviously, we want to see actual on the ground action. And it's been very encouraging to hear already in some of the previous sessions that there's been interest and specific sites and landscapes have been even named where where people feel that flood could really be, you know, good at value and could be rolled out. So obviously we want to stay involved in the support that in any way we can. And they said that of course it does require resources so that may mean if they are no existing resources available we might fundraise need to fundraise maybe jointly fundraise to do to do flood roll out on the ground. And obviously we are very interested in hearing the lessons that come out of the flood roll out because remember what we're trying to do here is to is to also influence policy and practice going forward and continue to help develop the flood methodology. So that means we would be happy to try to help disseminate the lessons learned and there is the people approaching platform which is excellent for that as well. So we're very keen on on on on supporting the roll out the flood at site level as well. So we will be asking more in the survey monkey question and it's coming your way on all these things so you can you can provide us feedback if you're interested in these opportunities whatever other opportunities they are maybe you know of resources sites all that sort of stuff. So that's just to give you a flavor of the future of flood so this has just been this capacity building element that we've been working on on this online event is just part of a bigger program that we would like to implement around a local community is combating illegal wildlife trade. So I know we're a bit short on time so I will leave it at that and I'll hand back to Holly. Thank you. Thank you. Over to Diane. Yeah, thank thanks Leo that was really helpful. Right we're going to go into our mentee. So live is going to take us through the mentee a reminder that you can either click on the link that is in the. That's in the chat or you can go to mentee.com and enter the code that is in the chat. If you're using your phone or something you might want to just do that. And once again I think you've heard this question before how useful did you find this session with one being not useful and 10 being very useful. So we're going to hope that we hit out 1718 but please do click through the, it is in the chat. We only have a few minutes left so. Thanks, John yeah I know that you guys and Rwanda are having some connectivity problems today. Just give you a few more. We have a lot of people responding. We can count Jean Vie and aim us in as a as very useful. So that's great figure that later. I remember everything's anonymous. So we can't see who's, who's creating. But these guys from Rwanda are very, very upfront and they're telling us because they can't get in. So guys from Rwanda you've been absolutely fabulous participants. Thank you for sticking with us, even through bad storms and bad connectivity. The rainy season has begun in Zimbabwe so I'm waiting for storms to get in the way of my connectivity but so far so good. Okay so we're up to 13. Yep. Just give it a few more seconds. I'm going to put the code and the link back in the chat. I'm kind of, I'm kind of hoping for our magical number of 17. We've got 32 people currently on the call. Yeah, come on we can get to the lucky 17. They're only 15 of you. Two more to go. John, I'm seeing I'm going to capture that assumption. Thank you. Interesting. Yeah. Okay, can we get a couple more or that's it Diane. I think we should move on. So now our lucky number is 15. So, Liv, can you move on to the next one? Yeah. Okay, and then so specifically today we were talking about new IWT projects. So how likely are you to use flood for new IWT projects. And you've got four options there of definitely maybe probably not definitely not. We know and we've, we've been saying, you know, throughout our, throughout our series, that, you know, it was never our intent that you could be a brilliant practitioner right off the bat. So we know that some people might feel tentative. But trying it is really the way you do it. That's what we've learned over over our years of involvement and it is just beginning. And get, get you a long way. Yeah, Diane, let's at least try and get the magic 15. Okay, I'm just putting the link in again. I lost it because I copied Jean Domicine. Do you need it? Not done it. So the link is there again. Someone is joined from their iPhone, which is great. So hopefully they will be able to answer now. Thank you. Okay. I think Rwanda Rwanda looks like. Yeah, let's let's get a project going in Rwanda seems like it's, it's our Rwandese colleagues have been with us through thick and thin but that's not to say all the others have not been great we've really, really appreciated that. It's motivated Diane and myself every every week to go further because of you. All right, live I think we should go on to the next one. Yeah. This is about using the flood approach for different types of conservation challenges outside of IWT. And again, the same, the same options. And we would really, really love to hear from anyone who does take the plunge for either new IWT projects or these types of different conservation challenges. We'd love to hear how it goes. Great. Okay brilliant we're up to 13 which is where we got last time so thank you very much that's very helpful for us. I will now share our last few slides. So, you know we really please don't hesitate to be in touch if you've got questions if you want to share with us how it's going. If you want to work together to raise funds for for rolling it out. There are all of our email addresses and the two websites so the guidance materials are all available all of the videos are available. This one will be uploaded, as well as case studies from from projects that engage communities in combating legal wildlife trade. There's tons of them on people not poaching from from all over the world, not just East Africa so please don't hesitate be in touch let us know how it's going. Liv do you want to speak to this. Yeah, so we've got one final request from you if that's okay. And we've designed a 15 minute survey so a short survey on survey monkey. To understand both your thoughts on the learning series how you found it what we could have done differently, and also how you plan to use flood if at all going forward. And it's really really helpful if you can, if you can fill this out for us because it will help us design a future flood training sessions. And so I'm going to pop the link into the chat box now which will take you directly to the survey, and you can also expect to receive an email from me at some stage today, possibly this afternoon. So look out for that as well and that will contain the link to the survey as well. And just thank you in advance for all of your responses will be super super helpful for us. So thank you very much. So, so that's it and I will hand over to Leo to do to do the final final thanks but for me and Holly and live. Thank you for being our, our partners over the last gosh few months. It's been great. It's been absolutely great and we just want to say happy holidays to everyone and stay safe and thank you so much for following us for the last few months. So Leo, if you want to close us out. Yeah, thanks very much so yeah so really on behalf of the IUCN regional office for Eastern and Southern Africa. Thank you to everybody. First of all the participants. It's been it's been a fantastic series. Thank you. Thank you for your active participation. It's made it more effective and interesting. And also we've, we've not only done this training for the first time but we've also benefited really throughout from your feedback and and you really contributed to, to making this, this training more effective in the future so so really, really thank you very much for that and I hope you've, you've enjoyed them. And I'm sure that among you participants, there will be some future flood practitioners and trainers and really look forward to working with you. Going forward. I would really, really like to thank our partners IID and Suli, and in particular, live Holly Diane, who worked so incredibly hard on putting these these these events together on the content, excellent facilitation. It is really, really impressive and and I would really like to thank you for that. Thank you to the IUCN team, the contributions from Grace and Caroline and others. And then last but not least, thank you very much to our donors. USAID, Kenyan East Africa, who've been supporting flood from its very inception to the European Union through EU DEFCO who've supported this work and are continuing to support us through the Biaparma program to enable us to continue the building and, and support the flood in the Eastern Southern Africa region so I thank you very much. Yeah and then just finally from me as well just happy holidays to everybody and let's hope that 2021 shapes out to be a better year for all of us. Thank you very much for that. Thanks, Leo. Thanks Leo. Bye everyone. Thanks everyone. Thanks so much for all of your time with us.