 that's our attending. Okay well welcome to this hearing at the local historic district commission. Our purpose is to aid property owners in the town of Amherst in the preservation and protection of the distinctive characteristics and architecture of buildings and places significant in the history of our town. We require one of three certificates to ensure that new construction and most alterations of exterior architectural features in the district meet requirements. So today's hearing is being held to review four applications. We're going to begin with an application from Valley Home Improvement 24 North Prospect Street, which is a request to modify the rear of the house with new siding windows, deck, and chairs. And this hearing is open to the public. Sorry did somebody say something? The we have as nature said 60 days to make a final decision from when they first filed. So we'll try to be efficient about this. This hearing is open to the public is being recorded. And what we're going to do is Mr. Malloy will summarize the application, the applicant or his or her representative will speak and then members of the commission will ask questions for clarification. And then we'll invite comments and questions from the public. And commission members can ask questions after that. So shall we be I guess I should begin by taking roll call? So Karen? Here. Steve? Here. Greta? Greta? Greta is included. Nicole? Here. I think Greta will come back when she's ready. But let's begin with Nate summarizing the application for this one. I guess so we're starting with 24 North Prospect Street. So if anyone's in attendance is going to speak to that, can you raise your hand and we'll promote you to panelists? And then you'll have the ability to help present. So we have two participants. And I'm trying to move them over now. So Patrick and Steven, you should be asked to then switch over to panelists. Yes, I'm showing up as a panelist. Thank you. Great. Hello. Thanks everyone. So I was just going to, I can share my screen or unless you, you know, the applicant you want to, it's up, it's up to you, but I can share and then go through images. I'm happy to share my screen. My name, I don't know, introduce myself now or Jackson Powers with Valuable Improvement, representing the homeowners at 24 North Prospect Street for this renovation. I have some photos, some images here to answer any questions you might have, obviously. So if you direct me where to start, I'm happy to do so. Sure. Yeah. I mean, if you just want to walk us through, you know, if you have images in the plans that's. Sure. Absolutely. Doesn't let me share my screen yet. Oh, it doesn't. Let me, let me, one participant can share a time. Oh, now it does. Okay. Great. Great. So here's our proposed plan. I can also show existing conditions that that's helpful to start with. Excuse me. Or I could show pictures if that's even more helpful. I think the photos would be great just the existing conditions photos. So Patrick photo bombing here. This is our existing rear entry of the house. Evidence of a past renovation they have, you know, probably like 70s or 80s slider coming off into what was presumably a deck at one point. And this stairs to the back entry underneath here is actually how you enter the basement, which is a big part of this. The motivation behind this project is to gain safer and more accessible access to the basement, which you'll see in our proposed plans. So this is the existing. It is slightly visible from the street. I actually have some street views. If that's helpful to view. Yes, can you show us this? Yes, we just use sound. So this is the view from me on the sidewalk. As you can see, you can't see that existing entry. Our proposed does show a garage door. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I have basement access door in this area and I could show you what that looks like in three-dimensional renderings. Okay. So this is like roughly where you might find yourself on the street. Or the sidewalk. So we're adding this doorway to gain access to that basement and then stairs up to a new deck, which has a small overhang as well are covering. And I could kind of show you this is kind of what a similar view of that. Is that what the door will look like? Yes. Yep. Yep. Three panels on the top and then two panels on the lower part. It matches the one up here as well. Any questions on this view? It looks great. Thank you. It's been a fun process with the homeowners. I love working in these older homes. I'm always fun surprises. This addition from what I could tell is a little older than the house, but still fairly old. Did you mean a little younger than the house? I'm sorry. Yes. I'm sorry. A little younger than the rest of the main house. Yeah, it looks nice. This is the south side. The north side is the other side, which I could show you. Our intentions there and what is existing. Here is the sidewalk view. So what we're impacting is this window and these windows here. Right now, this is their kitchen. This window is not original. It's probably from the 70s or these renovation. And what we're proposing in this view is a new window here, which brings in a prairie style grill. And this is more of a transit style. This is a bathroom. So they don't want a ton of windows. And then these windows go away and be replaced with siding to match. Are there any questions from the commissioners? Do any of our visitors have things they want to say? Yeah, if any members of the public would want to raise their hand, this would be an opportunity. This strikes me as totally in keeping with the neighborhood, the historic nature of the house. And I personally have no problem with it. Does anybody else? No, I think it looks wonderful and a wee improvement. It's nice that you have access to the basement. So yeah, sounds great to me. Just a quick question. Does the top of the window trim match? So here on the north side, like the, you know, it would follow a line horizontally across the two existing windows? It will. So it'll match it with and we'll match that same pipe. In this, yeah, this trim might show a little thinner in my program, but it will match this height. All right. And thickness. Well, shall we take a vote on whether to approve this? Greta? Yes, I approve. I think it looks nice. Thank you. Karin? I approve. I also think it looks great. Steve? Yeah, I approve as well. I think it looks great. Nicole? I approve. It's good in your dog. Does your dog approve too? Yep, she does. Definitely. And I approve. So I think you're all set with this one. The commission members present of this hearing have all approved it and the commission has been assisted by name. So I think we can sign the appropriate agreements. Yeah. So yeah, the commission will issue a certificate of appropriateness for this work. You know, it's in keeping with the bylaw. Thanks, you know, Ronnie and Patrick, for your patience. And so we can move that along. Great. Thanks. Yeah, thanks for the very clear presentation. Absolutely. Yeah, that was fantastic. Thank you all and thank you, Jackson. Yeah. Have a great weekend. Thanks. All right. Thanks, Chas. So we will move next to 46 Sunset 11C23. This is Namur's College Project. And it's a request to modify the existing front entry with new ramp, stairs, wing walls, landing and handrails. Do we have a presenter? Two people have raised their hands. Yep. Looks like a few have raised their hands. All right. So Steven, Seth, Rachel and John, you'll all be asked to accept a panelist invitation. And as I asked before, do you want to share your screen or do you like me to share? Is that? I will share my screen. Great. I don't know. That's great. Yeah. Thanks. Am I allowed now? Yeah. Yes. Is everyone ready? Everyone on my team here? I think so. Thank you, everyone, for your time. My name is Seth. I am a senior project manager with Planning, Design and Construction Office at Amherst College. We were before your group back in June of 2022 with the beginnings of this work, which is a complete renovation and nearly a gut demo on the interior of this wonderful property at 46 Sunset. At that time, we were still exploring how to provide an accessible means of entry to the first floor, which is really important for the college. We did install an accessible restroom as being outfitted right now on the first floor with the rearrangement of our reconfiguring those spaces. And so we worked with a landscape architect who is not here today and an architect who is here, Steven Baker, on a lot of options. And what we would like to propose is illustrated on the screen, and that is taking an existing walkway that is on the north side of the property and bringing up that elevation so that it hits this landing, which has to be raised. The landing is currently below the door. It wouldn't be an accessible threshold. So if we're going to raise the landing, we have to rebuild the stairs because we don't know exactly how they're constructed now. They're currently concrete. I have, submitted an existing photograph. This is the existing situation with the snow. So the pathway will come up along the right side, along the north side here. And what's left of that wing wall when we bring an accessible pathway through is really not much at all. So we were proposing to rebuild these stairs in granite at the new, at the level of threshold of the existing door, which is a new door to match the existing, and then to put metal railings on both sides. And I wanted to let Steven Baker talk for a minute on why we are proposing not to rebuild these two wing walls, which are river stone with concrete caps. So I will switch views to what we are proposing if Steven would like to jump in. Sure. The more we dealt with the river stones, the more we found they were crumbling, and the granite solution, and if we were going to try to keep the river stones, it felt like you were mixing rough and tumble with refined and nice. And so at the end of the day, it seemed that the more consistent thing to do would be to eliminate the sidewalls and do ornamental railings, do a landscape sidewall on each side, and integrate this more into the landscape with the wheelchair access. This is a one-and-twenty ramp, so there's no handrails associated with it, so it's just a gradual in-kind slope that delivers people to the front door. And there will be more landscaping all around this as well. This view just focuses on the entry piece. Is there any questions? Do any of the commissioners have questions to ask? I'm sorry to see those stones go, I really like the way they look, and I think they are more in keeping with other parts of the house. A lot of work over the front door is any way that the railings could match that to the black railing. Match this decorative railing here. Provided and provided the openings in that railing meet the code requirements for railing, because at the top of this railing, are we over 29 inches, Stephen? I don't know. We're right on the edge. Where we need fall protection, you would have to limit the size of these gaps at their widest point to what code allows, which is that a four-inch ball can't pass through. Is there a way to do a version of the Union Jack that might work in the iron? Stephen, probably. Probably, but it might be a glass and steel solution, so that you could keep the openings larger. But that particular kind of grille work is typically used on all the terraces on the second floor. We're on the backside. This is our second time, as you may remember, us coming to you. On the backside, we're actually replicating that, and we're actually closing them down a little bit, so as to allow for the regulations to be met. To that end, there is metal ironwork on the backside railing already. This would be consistent with railings that are at the ground plane that are on the backside of the house that exist. I don't have a picture. Yeah, you just can't see the ones in the back. I mean, they're fine. They just look pretty utilitarian compared to the rest of the house, which is so nice. And from this distance, excuse me, from this distance, it looks pretty utilitarian. But, Seth, you actually have some details. It's the OG ornamental iron with the scroll termination. So this is the profile. These are standard Julius Bloom profiles that the college uses all the time for our historic properties. So this is the profile of the handrail. This is its termination. So that termination looks like you have it at the end of the stairs at the bottom landing, but you don't have it when the ramp intersects, would it be on all endpoints just for consistency? So it's on both sides, and it has an opening to the ramp. But it doesn't. You're asking if I zoom in. You're asking if it's here, here, here, and here. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It looked like the illustrations just didn't show that. The ramp slopes, it sloped its gradual enough to not require handrails. But Steve, we could put that little video termination here if we wanted to. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I was suggesting. If you went to the computer-generated images, it just looks odd that you have the return. You can see that, and then it doesn't happen. Some type of termination. Great suggestion. Yep. A better result. And Steve, how do you consider if they did use what you suggested that pattern? Is that something you still want to have them consider? Look, I'm just suggesting. It just looks a little bit different than the rest of the house, the black rail. So I was just trying to see if there's some way that it could be unified, but it's not crucial. Just making a layman suggestion, and I can see that it's not actually practical. And to be clear, there are no handrails there currently, right? So yeah, we are proposing to put handrails in with the new stairs. But the handrails are now required by code, right? So it's not. We would be required to add handrails to this stair, if we didn't touch it. Stephen, did you say that you, in the back, you modified that design to meet, I mean, with Seth, to meet the current code so that the proportions were changed. So if you take a look at that grill work up on the second floor, that's sort of Juliette balcony. On the back terrace, we modified that detail. So there's a sort of a two-step in that X-bracing that allows for that requirement of a four-inch ball can't pass through. To be clear, though, that's on the roof deck above grade. Exactly. It's still on the second floor. And on grade, it's all black aluminum fencing. On grade, it's all black, black metal, currently, and in the new plants. I'm confused. Do you, according to code, have to put those metal railings in, or are you just doing it? Scared by code require railings, yes. And so even if we weren't touching the stairs, we would be adding railings. Yeah, I understand that it's a utilitarian. It's good. But I, like Nancy and Steve, you know, when you're approaching it for the first time, the old stairs, which I realize have to go, are somehow so elegant. And here, those metal are just so, they look so tiny compared to the massive house behind it. So that was just our reaction. But I would research. So to address that, it's our intention to actually sort of simulate the mass of those bouldered sidewalls with some boxwood hedges. Yeah, and I think kind of adding to what is being said is it is just a shift of a residential look to more of a business look. I mean, I understand it's, you know, you're needing to add for ADA and everything. But it, the feeling is a business entrance and not a residential entrance any longer. I mean, the riverstone is, you know, it is a shame that that's leaving. So I think that's kind of what I'm grappling with as well is that's the shift of it. I understand the practicalities of the needs. But there is some loss, even the copper gutters and, you know, just some of those, you know, little unique elements that were present at that entrance. The copper gutters are in the photo set that you have, you can show that they've been replaced. Yeah, these are all new copper gutters. And the photograph doesn't, sorry, so they're all the way around the house. We read all the gutters, all new windows, all the existing profiles. This railing, although it looked great, was in horrible disrepair. And so it's been all repaired. I will say that in my opinion, I realize we can differ on opinions that I think it'll be executed in a way that doesn't look particularly commercial but looks higher and residential. I don't think the worn concrete copings on these are especially nice, nor are the concrete stairs. That it's just worn utilitarian concrete. And so I think the upgrading of those materials to a thermal finished granite is a nice residential, you know, it's not uncommon to find residential stairs in granite. In fact, it's sold, you know, stock every day at Granite Guards. I get the comment of the river stone. My personal take on that is if we were to rebuild them with the granite, then we have a really odd juxtaposition of a very rustic material. We did, of course, there is existing river stone on the base of the house and then on the chimney, which is off this photograph on the south side all the way up. When we power washed that river stone to clean that chimney, river stone fell out. And so we have been, we pointed that entire chimney as a result. So, you know, I think we don't feel confident in how these walls were really constructed. We don't know what the backup is. And so if we are going to keep them, we think we have to rebuild them, which, of course, we can do. But I think with Stephen's care, we can get a residential, a higher end residential look. You know, we could, for example, we could rebuild the stairs in concrete, but we don't have to use granite. In fact, it's at a considerable expense that we are trying to use granite. But we feel like it wears better, weather is better. It stands up to ice and snow better. And it's a better look for this particular use for us than a concrete stair. Steve? I think we're complaining a couple of issues. I think everyone agreed, has no problem with upgrading the stairs and concrete to granite. I think what we're stuck on are not even, it's not a deal breaker derailing. I mean, I just want to clarify, this is the new president's top. Is that correct? It is. Yeah. So I think what I'm saying is that to me, the metal, and like I said, it's not a deal breaker. Sure, the hedges will not mitigate it. But it looks like the, you know, like old folks, the interest to an old person, there's one of those old folks holding that frailty. And that doesn't look as grand as the rest of that. But the rest of what you have there. And again, I'm not an architect. This is just a layman. And I just think it, since it is the president's house, if there was some way to deal with that railing, and I wish Bruce was here, because he could make some suggestions, which I can, to make it a little, a little more elegant. And I understand the details nice. But just from the front, it has kind of that, I don't think it does justice to the rest of the stuff that you do. That's just my opinion. Like I said, it's not a deal breaker for me. So, you know, but it is a collar. Yeah, I mean, I mean, my thought is, I'm hoping the railings actually are will recess from view so that they're, you know, you're not seeing them as much, right? I guess you could make them heavier and have, you know, a more massive like Newell post and different materials. But I'm guessing is that they're going to be, you know, less visible. And so they're not, it's not as intrusive, you know, to the view as, as other things. So really what you're going to be looking at is in the front entry, you're going to be drawn to the door and the stoop and not, you know, look at heavy railings. But yeah, we were hoping that the railings be being in black, they would, they would fall into the background and our box would hedge, which probably should have been rendered taller will become the dominant sort of bookends to that entry. Yeah, I think if the box would are taller, it'll make a huge difference because yep, agreed 100%. And I just have a quick question. Is the landing at the bottom of the stairs at the same elevation, the current existing elevation? So is that being raised at all? You know, you're sloping up the ground as well. So it looks like you're only showing four steps and there's four steps existing. So my guess is that is everything's going to come up just a little bit. So everything's going to be slightly sloped until the bottom landing or is that we're trying to marry up with the two existing concrete sidewalks. Are you okay? Oh, so it's, it's virtually co-planar separate drainage. Do we have any other questions from the commissioners or from the public? Are we ready to take a vote then close the hearing and take a vote? So I suggested just sorry quickly that, you know, they have the termination on the ramp side. And if the commission wants to include that in the motion, it could say, you know, as shown with, with that addition, I mean, it's something to discuss. I would support that. I think that's a good suggestion. Well, let's, does anybody else have anything they'd like to say? Can I just clarify what I think Steven, sorry, I didn't mean to rub what Steven said just on that. So the, that is on, that termination is on the handrail piece, right? We don't actually have to have a handrail where it turns onto the ramp because the ramp doesn't require a handrail because of its slope. So are you asking that we turn the handrail onto the ramp anyway and add that termination, Nate, or just where we need a handrail by code that we have the terminations? Does that make sense? It does. I'm sharing my screen quickly. I'll just zoom in. I mean, so, you know, would you, is this visible for everyone? Yeah. I mean, would you actually eliminate these sections then and just end it here? Or do you like this for, you know, to help guide people in? I mean, is that? It's not required, but I get it, because it's right. So we could put it on this. And even though it's not required as a handrail, if that's what you're asking for, I think that's that. I'm okay. I'm just making sure we're all on this in the page. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, that's something that's for the commission. I was offering some opinions. I actually like it. I think it makes it a little less institutional. And when you see the railing closer up, you see it's actually bulkier and grander than time of distance. All right. So you think as is, Steve, is what you think that looks fine? Yeah, I do. What order? Are we ready to vote? So we're voting on whether to allow this to go forward as described to us with the scrolls at the bottom of each handrail. Karin? Yes. Steve? Yes. Nicole? Yes. Rita? Yes. And I support this also. So I think we're ready to allow this, the certificate to move forward with this. Thank you for your presentations. And yeah. Thank you, everyone. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Our third question before us is 30 McClellan Street. This is a project for Joel Greenbaum. And it's a request to remove an existing porch and replace it with an open porch, including posts, railings, and steps. Is Joel here? He is. Joel, I'm going to promote you to panelists. Can you hear me, Nate? I think we can all hear you. Yeah. Sorry. I'm not great on the technology, but Lisa is. Can I interrupt a minute? Why does my screen not show anything? Can you, Karin, can you see everyone? Oh, I only see this screen which says recording and it has desktop one and Google Chrome. Did it just switch? No. This has been for a while. Should I leave and come back? Leave and come back. All right. So Joel, if you'd like, I can share my screen. Can you see me? We can. Yes. Joel, can you see us? Are we visible? Yeah. I can see everyone. Sure. I'll share my screen and we can. We'll start with the existing condition. Sorry. I'm just going to pull it here. So for everyone in attendance, it's a renovation of just this porch. So here's the existing conditions. I think just to show you quickly, this is what it will look like when it's done. So here's an image that's proposed. So the roof line won't change. The columns will be square. You can see the trim. So here's a plan that was shown outlining that here's just this framing plan for the floor, which isn't quite visible, but here's a photo mockup. So it really is taking the enclosed porch and making it an open porch. I'm not sure, Joel, if you have anything to add or... I think, Nate, that the photograph of the porch on Pee's place will do serves as the best illustration. Of course, it will have railings, but that's really what it's going to look like. Same builder. But are the two doors... Is this two units in this building with two entrances? In this particular unit it is, but this is a separate building. I just wanted to show the porch. So I understand that. I'm referring to 30 McClellan. There's going to be two doors on 30 McClellan. That's correct. No, it's just a single family house. It has a front door and it has a door off the porch. Okay. And that's not changing. So it's an existing entry that's... Correct. Are you going to do anything... I went by the property and your workers said you guys were going to do the main entrance as well. Is that true? No, sir. I think the main entrance is staying just the way it is. We've been working on the interior. We haven't made it outside yet, but for the week, we've changed the windows and the house will get painted and we've already cleaned out the yard. It has to get lumbed and seated, but the porch is really the big thing. You took a lot of nice flowers out of that yard. It was a beautiful garden. They're still there, but I mean that house, that yard was a jungle. The flowers are still there. I think the house will look significantly nicer with this new porch. Thank you. I think it will look very nice as well. And I think it's nice for the neighborhood to have an open porch. It's more friendly. I think originally it had an open porch. This porch has been all cobbed together. And it's not particularly... I don't want to say it's unsafe, but I mean when you stand on it, it's certainly not as strong as a new one. Yeah. And Joel, you're going to replace the roof with a shingled roof. Is that in the same elevation and everything? Yeah, correct. And I see a little bit of the pillars in the front. I assume are they going to match the front entrance pillars? More or less. Yep. Are there more questions from the commissioners? In that case, I think we can close this part of the hearing. There's nobody else from the public who's come to speak at this one. If anyone, there's two in attendance. If anyone wants to raise their hand and speak to it, they can. Otherwise, we'll give them a minute. It doesn't look like there's any hands raised. Okay. Then I think we'll close this part of the hearing and we'll move to vote on whether to approve these changes. Steve? Yes, I approve. Rita? I approve. Nicole? I approve. Karin? Yes. And I approve also. So I'm happy to say that we have approved your request and you'll get the certificate that you need now to move forward. Thank you. I very much appreciate it. Thank you for your presentation. It wasn't as professional as the others, but thank you, Nate, for helping me out. Sure. Thanks. Yeah, I don't mind. Have a nice day and a nice weekend. You too. Thanks, you too. Nate, do we have anybody here from the North Prospect Street project? We did and they're not in the attendees. We can ask, is anyone here for 71, 77, 79 North Prospect? I think the owner had been here and is not in attendance anymore. Okay. Well, this is a project from Karin Qing to install a wooden stockade fence on the back of the properties. And so the question before us then is whether we want to move forward with this or whether we want to wait until she makes a presentation. Let me just, I'm going to, Karin, Karin was in attendance. And let me just forward her an email again. I just sent the owner an email. Yeah, there was a Karin who was in attendance earlier and I'm not sure if they accidentally left her or not. I can always make the presentation if that's necessary. We'll see if there's any new attendees yet. Shall we wait one more minute and then we'll, you can let me know, Commissioner, if you want me to present this. Kurt Shumway had emailed me this morning asking for a link and I thought you would do that. Yeah, I emailed him a link as well and a few others. I don't see anyone. I mean, if that's the case, I would prefer to postpone it if someone's here on either side. I am here. Okay. This is Kurt. I don't feel I need to speak up. Oh, okay. All right. Okay. Just listening. Okay. So I believe this was one that had some legal issues around it that we can't actually address, but maybe the desire now is to just wait and see what happens with the legal questions. What do you think, Nate? I know, I mean, the commission has to make a decision either way. So either we continue it to a date certain and we can confirm the owner will attend or we can, you know, I can present it. It's a pretty straightforward application and the commission can make a decision. That's, you know, or deny it. I evidently am right. So you can present it and then say yes, no, or condition it. If we were going to continue it to a date certain, you know, I would recommend in the next, Nancy, you're not available next week, right? So we would just, we would have to just take a look at when what makes sense. Okay. I'm not seeing anyone else join. So I'm not sure what the commission would like to do. I mean, I think if we can just quickly review stuff so we decide to go ahead or not. Sure. I'll, I'll share my screen. The, so, you know, it's a, it's two separate applications for two properties owned by the same owner. So there's 71 North Prospect Street and then 77 79 North Prospect Street. So on 71 North Prospect Street, they'd like to install, you know, a 25 foot length of fence here, three feet off the property line. On 77 North Prospect 77 79, they would like to install the same fence one foot off the property line. And so the other fence is here. So the idea is there's an existing single family home here associated with Shumway properties and there's this paved driveway to Halleck Street. So the, the residents and tenants of this unit here take this back alley park here and then access the unit. It seems like the intent is to install this fence in an L to impede the, you know, the movement of people back and forth. But really the commission right is looking at, you know, this 71 foot length of fence and a 25 foot length of fence. And, you know, the spec was given as something from, you know, a six foot high pressure treated pine fence. And so back in this area here, there's already some existing stockade fence on the back of this house and on this property line. So there's existing stockade fence, you know, that is of a different style, slightly different style than this, but there is quite a bit of fencing wooden fencing in that area. And do we have any idea if trees are going to be cut down and things like whenever I drove by there's quite a bit of trees back behind the property. And I can't tell what other bushes or things like that, but I just wasn't sure if it was going to kind of be clear cut of the vegetation to do this. That's not clear. I mean, the commission, you know, vegetation and landscaping is exempt from review. So there's really, you know, we can't really offer much there. You know, I would love to have a site visit. I was there and I kind of looked at it, but I think this is a, this is a very downtown place. I think it's an important decision. It's not, you know, do we want stockade fences to go up all over the place right there? It would really, I would feel more comfortable before I voted to just be there with someone who knows and explains exactly what's going to happen on site because visually it just is going to impair a lot of places there. Well, first I want to say I'm really glad it's wood, not plastic, but I agree with Karen. I've been, I've been, I've gone by maybe three or four times trying to figure out exactly where the fence is or would be, but I don't feel comfortable walking on the yard, but maybe a more formal site visit would do that. I had trouble visualizing it from the street. I walked down the driveway and it looks like it would really isolate this house in a way that would not be in keeping with the rest of the neighborhood. And I'm just curious as to why this is necessary. I agree with Karen, that putting up stockaded fences all over the neighborhood is, it's not what an historic downtown usually has. I mean, I guess also, you know, talking about people coming, going and like we're trying as commissioners to figure this out and no disrespect, but rather than taking up a lot of an entire commission's time individually and as a group to go see this, I personally would like to know like if it legally is a common driveway and if that can be approved legally before we waste our time, you know, all meeting to see whether or not it could happen. Like if it is a common driveway, I'd rather that be legally sorted before we kind of take up all of our time trying to decide whether or not we think a fence should go. Steve, would you like to say something? I didn't raise my hand, but I actually emailed Nate this very question this morning saying, you know, should we postpone any kind of decision pending the legalities being straightened out and Nate said that we actually couldn't. But if there's an aesthetic, you know, objection on the part of the commission, I think that's a legitimate concern and I think maybe it might be for who of us to have the owner come back and let's talk to her about what else we can do besides, you know, stockade pets. Right. No, thanks, CVS. So these legal questions are called something that really is outside the purview of the commission. So, you know, we can make a determination on the fence in terms of its aesthetic value or impact because of it. And, you know, then it's really the owner's risk to install it, you know, and then they, you know, there could be legal repercussions, but that's not, you know, that's the commission can't withhold this decision because of that, you know, because of those uncertainties. And so, you know, it happens with zoning or land use boards. Sometimes they might make a decision on something and then it's really the owner's, you know, the owner has to do their due diligence before they may move forward with the plan, unfortunately, right. So it does take up the time of a board or committee, but that's, we have an application to make a decision on. So it sounds like the commission would like to continue the hearing and I can really try to get a hold of the owner to confirm, you know, if, you know, if they can't or a representative can't be in attendance, we could schedule a site visit and let them know at least. And then is that a quick question, they do you have any suggestions since there is a aesthetic objection or concern on the part of the commission, do you have any suggestions on what alternatives could be to the stock offense? So in this instance, there is some other screening on the property, I do think. Yeah, I mean, I think, Karen, you made the comment that although, I mean, it is behind a house and there's topography, so it's, it will be visible. I think, you know, it could aid the commission that we have better, you know, maybe even like a photo rendering to show what does it actually look like. And it may be that to your point, see that maybe offense is just not appropriate, even though it's in the back because the way it will, you know, the way it disrupts the view. And so it could be that the commission doesn't approve this, you know, if they really want some type of screening, you know, there's always a vegetation, right, there's trees, things that can have a softer, softer appearance and that's not regulated by the commission. If they really want a structural element, a solid opaque element, you know, they could have a different kind of fence, right, but it would still be a, you know, a visual barrier. So it's also a six foot fence, which is pretty tall. And a solid fence, it's not, there's no, no break up to it. I like the idea of recommending vegetation as an alternative. Kurt, did you have something you wanted to say? I did, if it's appropriate. I'm apparently showing up as Steve on the. Yeah, I was actually, I was thinking it was you, Steve, I'm both lying. I was thinking it was me too, and I was wondering what I just called it. Yeah. I'm not gonna, I will, if it's okay for me to speak, I'll confirm that there's a conflict. It's my, I can describe, it's my feeling that we have shown legal standing for right away, et cetera. I know that's not your position. One of the areas that has been addressed that you, it may or may not come into your scope is that because of my concerns and basically this shuts out any access to the house. And it is a significant fire and ambulance first responder concern. I'm hopeful, frankly, that the reason why the applicant isn't here is because they finally have recognized the documentations that we have provided that they can't do it. But that's not your role. I'm saying this only to possibly save you some time for visit, visiting the site. If I were trying to save time, I would suggest possibly you would consider delaying it. And they, if what I think is going to happen comes to fruition, they will probably withdraw the application. And you don't have to do anything more on it. So in an effort to try to save you your time and effort, a decision to delay it might be your easiest, of course, you can deny it and they can come back, you do whatever you want. But in order to save the time for the board, you know, let the legal battle take its, and I'm thinking they may have recognized that you know, there's some issues that they didn't, they weren't aware of. So I just offer that and I'm going to try to fix my computer, as Dwight says, Steve. If you have some questions, I'll hang it. I'm here for questions, but I think that was just my point to try to save you the site visit and maybe they're not here because they recognize that it may not quite go the same way. Thanks, Kurt. Yeah, I think the, yeah, I mean, the commission will have to either continue it to a date certain or, you know, make a decision today. There's way, it's hard to say, let's, you know, unfortunate with the owner not here to ask for either withdrawal, we'll have to, you know, my recommendation would be to either deny it or continue it. And we have plenty, we have time. So, you know, the clock really didn't start ticking until early this month. So 60 days puts us into May. So I mean, we could say, let's continue this hearing, we'll have to continue it. And it could be as simple as, you know, if it's with, if the owner asked to withdraw it, we open the hearing, we entertain the withdrawal, and we can go to accept that. You know, so we could say, let's, let's continue it till April, you know, you know, and it could be that we also then have additional agenda topics. We have a public meeting and a public hearing together on that date. So we can combine business as for meeting, we could say, you know, Tuesday, April 18th, for instance, or something. If that works for people, I don't know, you know what, and then we just say, we'll continue it to a date certain and time, we'd say we can continue it to three o'clock. And it would be the first item on the agenda that day. How does the commission like to move forward? Do we have opinions? Yeah, I think we don't have enough information to certainly deny it. Like I think we need more information to go either way. I liked exactly what you said, Nate. I like actually April 18th sounds like a great date at three o'clock to me. I don't know. Everybody should look at their calendar. And by that time, we probably have more things to deal with next day. And yeah. All right, let's take a vote on whether to continue this on April 18th. Tuesdays are difficult for me. Okay. Is that Monday? Is it possible? The 17th is the Monday. Is that a holiday, though? Or is that? The day is Patriots Day. Oh, do you have Patriots Day off, Nate? Yeah, town hall would be closed. Is the 19th okay with you, Nicole? Is that possible? Wednesday? Yep, that's fine. Nate, is that possible for you? Sure. We do have planning meeting, but that's not till 6.30. So I guess we could do it, but it means both Bruce and I have two meetings on that day. But it's fine with me. It could be the 20th, if you prefer. Oh, I have a meeting that runs until 4 o'clock. I mean, does it need to be that week if the 24th of April is back to us doing it on Mondays? That'd be exactly a month later, April 24th. That would work. I mean, we'd have to, you know, if we issue a decision, we'd have to, I just have to turn it around pretty quickly, but that's fine. Works for me. Me too. So Monday, the 24th at 3 p.m., is that what you'd say that? Sure. I'm having a colonoscopy that morning. I think I'll be okay at 3 p.m. Just make it more entertaining. Okay, let's continue it on the 24th at 3 p.m. And let's take a vote on that, Steve? Yes. Karin? Greta? Yes. Nicole? Yes. And I agree too. So Nate, is that all right? Yes. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'll reach out to the owner and we'll confirm the continuance and then ask for a site visit. Okay. 3 o'clock is what we've said. All right. Then I think we have done our work for today and we can vote to adjourn. If I have a motion to adjourn. I have a motion to adjourn. Thank you. We have a second. I second. Thank you. Nicole? Yes. Greta? Yes. Karin? Yes. Steve? Yes. And I vote yes. The meeting is adjourned. And thanks everyone. I'll end the webinar now. Thank you. Nate, thank you for all your help. Sure. Thanks. Bye-bye. Bye.