 This is Think Tech Hawaii, Community Matters here. Good afternoon everyone. My name is Howard Luke, we're here at the Think Tech studios and after two years since our last broadcast of the Living Legend Lawyer series, we're restarting and I can't think of a better guest for this afternoon's session than a man who is truly a Living Legend lawyer. He may be the oldest or most senior practicing lawyer in the state of Hawaii. His name is Vernon Tashima. I titled this myself and I called it the life and practice of a gentleman lawyer because in the years that I've known Mr. Tashima, he has always struck me as the consummate gentleman in court, out of court, by reputation and by all my conversations with him. I would like to introduce you to Mr. Vernon Tashima, he's seated to my immediate left and we'll be interviewing him through the course of this afternoon. Mr. Tashima, I would like to first wish you a early happy birthday. I understand in about a little over a week, you will, may I say the birthday that you'll be celebrating? Thank you. May third, next Thursday will be my birthday. Yeah, 98 years old, 98 years, 98 years young I should say, very sharp. In fact, when I had a little trouble remembering exactly where we were supposed to be, you told me and so this is why we are here. We have a few, a little less than half an hour to speak with you so I would like to get right into it because you've lived such a wonderful, fruitful and meaningful life for all the citizens of our state that I think we should start off with your background. You're originally from the island of Hawaii, is that correct? The big island so to speak, yes. And you were born in Pahoa? Town called Pahoa. Okay, was that a plantation town at that time? Yes, well it's a plantation town, La Blute was working in the cane fields. You worked in the cane fields yourself? I did, yes. You know, when I last was here I interviewed Judge Alfred Loretta, who was the first Filipino judge who became a United States district judge and also the very, very well respected Simeon Akoba, retired associate judge of the justice of the Hawaii Supreme Court. They came from plantation backgrounds, but you actually worked on the plantation, is that correct? Well, in a way we're forced to work in the cane fields. You were born in 1920, is that right? Yes. Tell us a little bit about your background, your family, your parents, where they were from originally and your brothers and sisters. My parents came together from, they called it a state in Japan, a prefecture we called, a place called Kumamoto. Kumamoto, yes. It's in the southern islands of Japan and I believe they came on a contract basis to work in the cane fields. As I understand it, it was here about 1901, thereabouts, settled in Pahoa. Numerous families came from Japan and elsewhere to work in the cane fields, I think. My mother's sister, my auntie, moved to a town about 10 miles away from Pahoa, a town that I'm called Ola. It's still called Ola, is that right? I think so. I thought they called it Keau. Or maybe they do, maybe they do. And they both came directly from Kumamoto. How many people, what would you say the population was of Pahoa at that time? You told me by families, right, how many families lived in Pahoa? Well, it's a rough guess, I would say 75 families, maybe. Mostly Japanese ancestry? Yes, I mean immigrant laborers, on the set it came on a contract to work for three years and accumulated enough to get back to Japan. Oh, they were planning to return to Japan? Oh, yes. Did they ever return to Japan? No, but after three years, increase in family size, they extended their contracts, so to speak, and finally considered themselves Hawaii residents and stayed here. What was life growing up, being a young boy? What did you do for fun? Well, talking about recreation or livelihood or whatever. Whatever was legal, recreation. Well, growing up in a plantation town, that's all we can do, work for the plantation in the cane fields. So that's going to work during the summertime that I would do. Later on, about the eighth and ninth grades, there was a program called Future Farmers of America and there were two years of so-called agricultural training and we learned to, for what it was worth, identify plants, tree, fruits, whatever, and part of the time we spent in the cane fields working. What was your job at the cane field? What did you do as a worker in the cane fields? All kinds of jobs, like, say, weeding or cutting the cane and loading it in cane trucks to set it to the mill to be processed into sugar. There was a diverse type of work involved in the cane fields, so planting the cane and well… You would actually help plant the cane? Well, as part of the Future Farmers training, we had to do those things too and summertime we work in the cane fields. Now, I know that some people don't like to be asked the question about how much money they get paid, but I'm going to ask you anyway. Tell us about, if you would, how much, how were you paid and how much did you make for this? As I recall, at that time it was about 25 cents an hour. So that was a more or less an eight hour work. Get up in the morning and ride the so-called cane cars and you're driven to the field to work on and the types of work involved with harvesting, cleaning the fields and whatever. But we take contracts to load the cane in the trucks, cane trucks, send it to the mill and a contract price is 40 cents a ton, but you load the cane truck to the top, it was about four tons. So two of us would get together and we'd load three cane trucks, 12 tons. And for 4,080 cents a day, and we split it to 40 cents a year. So we'd have to work till four o'clock. As soon as the work is done, you do for the day, through for the day. How did you feel about having all that money in your pocket? Well, it was a lot of money at that time, but so what are we going to do with all that money, you know? You mentioned to me before that you went to English school in the day and then Japanese school in the afternoon. Is that correct? Yeah. Well, at that time we called it the English school. It was from about eight to two. There was on one side of the playground, the baseball field, and on the other end of the baseball field or the playground was a Japanese language school. So we'd go to school, to so-called English school, finish about two o'clock, two-thirty or three, off to the Japanese language school for a couple hours. So as you got older, the older students were allowed to go to school, the Japanese language school, early in the morning, before going to the so-called English school. So the afternoon was reserved for the young fellows. You know, this is, I don't know if you can do this, but if you were to close your eyes and think back. Can you see some of your classmates running around the playground and going to school? Can you still remember them? Oh, yes. It was in the 1920s. Oh, yes. Yeah. Okay. You have a long life and we just started and we have a long way to go. So you moved from the elementary school, high school, you went to high school in Hilo, is that right? Correct. At Hilo High School. How did you get from Pahoa to Hilo? Well, Pahoa had only nine grades. So after the ninth grade, there was not enough in the town to create a high school. So we had to commute to Hilo High School by a bus and it was a yellow wooden wagon we called it, nicknamed banana wagon. The banana wagon. Yeah. The fellow running the so-called taxi was with about six passengers to commute to Hilo High School. So you went to Hilo High, eventually graduated and you were accepted the University of Hawaii. Is that correct? Yes. What I'd like to do is I'm just going to let you run with this, but you went to the University of Hawaii and I understand the war was sort of interrupted your education. You were planning to go to law school, you had applied to law school and were accepted. Am I correct? Well, during high school, because I gave my parents credit, of course, they were all for education. And there was the eldest in my family was a school teacher and they wanted all of us below to get an education. So from Hilo High School to go to college, because I didn't know what I wanted to be at that time, but go to college. So after finishing high school in 1937, that is, I got accepted to the University of Hawaii and I boarded the private home, I was going to the university. Where the, you know, what I mean, the aluminum center is now, there was a private home there that I bought it and went to the university. Well, very interesting. We're going to take a break right now and then we'll come back after a few announcements, I believe. Okay. This is Think Tech Hawaii, raising public awareness. You can be the best, you can be the king, come play and now your chest, you can be the world, you can be the war, you could talk to God, don't bang it on his door. Aloha. My name is Mark Shklav. I am the host of Think Tech Hawaii's Law Across the Sea. Law Across the Sea comes on every other Monday at 11 a.m. Please join us. I like to bring in guests that talk about all types of things that come across the sea to Hawaii, not just law, love, people, ideas, history. Please join us for Law Across the Sea. Aloha. Mr. Tashimo, you went to the University of Hawaii and then everyone knows the war started in December 7, 1941. Were you still in college or had you already graduated? Had you already graduated from the university when Pearl Harbor was bombed? Yes, I had a B.A. degree in early 1941 before the war started in December of that year. But I was already accepted in law school at the time, but I was not able to because of family finances and it couldn't afford to send me to law school, so I had to work. After a few years of working, I was drafted into the Army in 1944. About a year, a little more than a year before the end of the war, about two years left. You stayed in Hawaii during the war at Schofield Barracks? In the Army, yes. I was stationed at Schofield, so for two years I was here and discharged in 1946. And then you went back to consider law school? Check with the law school because it was five years or four years after I had been accepted, one of my credentials was still good and I said, yes, it's still okay, so I went to Washington University in St. Louis. Great school. You didn't finish at Washington University, you decided to transfer to the University of Kansas, is that correct? Yes. It wasn't because you saw the Wizard of Oz or anything like that. It wasn't because you saw the Wizard of Oz in the movies. No, I didn't know about Wizard of Oz at that time, but it was more family matter. I was already married with a daughter who was eight months old when I left for law school. So I stayed at a dormitory at Washington University and I wanted to find housing if I can bring my family over. Go to the schools around and in the Kansas road back saying, yes, we have housing, but you have to be a married veteran to qualify. A married veteran, which you work. I qualified on both counts, so transferred, I was given government housing, and I called my family up to join me. Great. I understand that your daughter moved, your very young daughter, she was probably the only Asian girl in the playground at the time, but she got along well with the fellow. We were the only family, a different family, so to speak. You mentioned earlier to me before the broadcast that about 99% of the class were composed of veterans, is that correct? Yes. Including women. Yes. Now, Mrs. Hashima, in the interest of time, I really have to move forward coming back to Hawaii, now you already have your law degree, you took the bar examination passed, and now you're ready to hang out your shingles, is that right? This would be about, what year was it, about 1950 or so? Well, I got my license in December of 1950. How was it looking for a job in Hawaii? Well, in Hawaii, locally speaking, it was very tough, it was not easy. In a way, I was fortunate one day, I met my old teacher from my grade school, and he was then the Deputy Superintendent of the Department of Education, and he found out what I was not doing at the time, and he said, all right, we'll make you a substitute teacher. So I was called to be a substitute at the public schools here. It wasn't a substitute teaching, it was more monitoring the class, and I remember my first assignment was at Parenting High School, and just sitting in the class, called the role, and kept the class quiet, you know. How did you become a lawyer? How do you make the transition into the practice of law? How did I... How did you become a lawyer? I mean, how did you start your practice? Well, he found me digressing, give a little background. I, in the ninth grade, for some reason, I was called by the principal saying, we want you to be the school prosecutor. I didn't know what he meant by that. So I said, what's a prosecutor? Well... Now you know, because your son is a career prosecutor, and he might retire before you do. At that time, somebody, you know, a classmate steals a pencil from the neighbor, or a sketch of it, you prosecute it. Well, okay, you teach me. And that may have been in my mind, because when I signed up at the University of Hawaii, I was signed up for teacher's college. That afternoon, for some reason, I went back to the university and changed my major into, that I would call it, social sciences, pre-law, major whatever. But there's no counselor in the school to show you or educate you as to what type of courses you must take. So anywhere, I just then started economics and all kinds of courses. All the great pre-law classes. When you were practicing law in the early years, there were, I guess, fewer minorities, people of Asian descent, Chinese, Japanese, and maybe a few Koreans. Did you find, did you come across anything that you perceived as discrimination in hiring? Well, me, it may not be directed to me personally, but I guess being brought up in the plantation, I had the so-called plantation mentality. And I was inferior to the white people, so to speak, because I worked in the plantation, here was the, we called it the Luna, come around riding a big horse with a whip. He didn't actually whip us, but the sure of, you know. Sure of authority. And that carried over to your practicing law? I guess that carried on, bro. Until I was put straight by one of the judges anyway. I want to ask you about women and the law. When you were practicing, there were a handful of women practicing. Is that correct? There were some women also practicing law at the time. As I recall, there were about three distinguished ladies at the time practicing. And I recall somebody mentioned that there were about 250 lords that I first came back to practice. And there were veterans also before me. So with three women, that sounds like slightly over one percent were female. When we sat down to talk a bit before the show started, you mentioned that you have a great deal of respect for those women who are practicing law, and they're very good attorneys. They include, you mentioned Harriet Boslog and who else was there? Well, the ladies conducted themselves professionally. They were very, well, not acting as if they are my lawyer, you know, better than you or whoever. I see. But they were very professional about their practice and their conduct with other lawyers. So I respected them. You know, if we had sufficient time, I'd ask you about this, but I'm going to kind of fly over it. You were one of the first people and the only person at one time involved in the legal aspects of the development of condominium law. We don't have time to talk about that, but I just thought I'd discuss that, at least set it out there for our viewers to know. Today, you still practice law. You still go to court. You still go to court every week at least, right? Well, not every week, but I still do. I sure see you a lot in court. And so tell us about your practice today. What do you do? Today's practice? Well, I, um, what else would the, uh, that time they called it the city attorney's office. Um, and some reason I was, you know, put in charge of land acquisition. I worked for the city as a deputy attorney for about eight, nine years. And so as the person in charge of land acquisition, we had to do a lot of, well, condemnation work, taking land for roadways, school sites, and all that. And, um, I was, you know, I mentioned that, um, I was offered a job by Mr. Henry Kaiser to be House Counsel for Hawaii Car Development. And that's where I learned more about property, real property work. And that's, that's been the basis, that's your bread and butter property. So one of the person, people that I met there after I had left, Kaiser Development said, hey, how about working on the, uh, at that time they called a hard ground to property regime. I didn't know first thing about that, but that was the forerun of the condominium law that we know. Because of, uh, we, because a short period of time we have left, I did want to touch on this. Um, I hope you don't mind my doing so, but I was very moved and impressed. You had a great marriage, um, your wife and you could remember how long you were married to the day. Uh, you spoke so lovingly about your wife. Um, could you share that with us? What makes, uh, you know, what makes for a great marriage? Well, my wife was from my hometown. Um, unfortunately, I lost her 11 years ago. Uh, and at that point we're together, um, 62 years, 11 months and 22 days, I believe. Right. And, and, and, uh, folks, you know, Mr. Tashima has, uh, it's a wonderful, uh, chapter of his life. Sorry to have it come to a close. That's one of the reasons why he continues to work because, uh, he finds that he doesn't get lonely at home. I don't know if I, you don't mind my mentioning that, but you're a professional. Well, I continue to work, continue to work because there's nothing else to do. You still stay at home and do nothing. Thank you so much everyone for tuning in. Um, a great man. I see him as a gentleman attorney. He makes me feel young, even though I'm starting to get a bit up there in my years. And happy birthday to you, Mr. Tashima. Happy 98th birthday, and we look forward to seeing you in the future in court. Thank you very much for having me. Yeah. Thanks so very much. Thank you, everyone.