 So, good morning to everyone joining us from Europe and Africa and good afternoon and even to those in Asia Pacific. I'm Julian Gordon. I'm the VP for Asia Pacific for Hyperledger, which is the Linux Foundation project for blockchain. And I'm delighted to be here today to introduce this webinar on what I think is probably one of the hottest topics that you can have, right, NFTs. And I couldn't think of a better person to do that today than Rajash Dadu, who is a Hyperledger member from Tecma. Tecma Hindra is, Tecma Josh is the Tecma Hindra's global practice lead for blockchain and cybersecurity. So I'm just gonna put the screen here, right. And I can't think anyone better place to share their expertise and real-world experience to demystify. As I think we're saying here because many people are actually quite confused. I think about what NFTs are. So he's going to share what their, his real life experience and what is possible with NFTs. So before we start and I kick off to Rajesh, I have just a few housekeeping items. Firstly, this is a Linux Foundation webinar. So we have to share that we have an antitrust policy. If you want to know more about that, please do go to our website. This event will be recorded. So it'll be going as you can see those on YouTube now, it's being recorded on YouTube. And we'll also, we will have it on our webinar website on our website, hyperledger.org. And also on there you'll be able to download the slides. So you don't have to take notes. We will be sharing the slides today as well. And probably key to all this, these are events are meant to be interactive. And we want to get the most of it. And you should get the most of it. We have Rajesh who's turned up today. Please interact and get the information and the kind of information that you can get. So firstly, the kind of function. So please raise your hand. So if you want to speak and we can unmute you, we'll probably do that more in the Q&A session. Please just ping us, raise your hand. Ask questions. We have a Q&A box. You can see that at the bottom. So please do ask questions towards the end of sessions and talk. So if you want to have discussion in our WeChat, sorry, within our chat session, please do that as well. So without much ado, I'm now going to hand back to Rajesh. So Rajesh, please take it from here and thank you again for presenting today. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Julian. Thanks for the kind introduction and also setting the background. I'm just going to bring up my slides. While I do that, I was watching the comments on the chat screen. There are people from Australia, there are people from Korea. So it's really a global webinar number one. It also tells me the amount of interest that NFTs have created, not in a particular market, but also, you know, its interest has been created throughout the globe. And of course, Julian, you're saying you're from Hong Kong. So let me bring up my presentation and then we can quickly get into the subject. I think you need to stop sharing, Julian, so that I can start sharing. It says the share button is grayed out for me. Okay, I think what I need to do is actually to make you co-host. Yeah, like once again. You are now co-host. Can you see the share button? Yeah, I can, but it's not allowing me to share. So one second, what's happening out here. It just worked a moment before. We need it. Yeah, it's more like NFT of this one day. Yeah, that tells me we have to basically make the NFT of Mr. Murphy because when Mr. Murphy comes, things stop working. Can you see my screen now? We can, beautifully. Okay, thank you so much. So to get started, what is NFT? To de-stify what is a non-fungible token, it's basically a growing market for digital collectibles or what we call as crypto collectibles. Before we get into the subject, let's see in terms of how this phenomena is shaping up and the amount of interest that it has generated in different parts of the world. Many of you know that every day, the first 5000 days, it was basically a collection of the art by a digital artist under the name people. It got sold for 69 million dollars at Christie's auction. And we have heard about interesting film personalities in different parts of the world getting on to the NFT bandwagon. And some of you who know the big B as he's called from the Indian cinema, Amitabh Bachchan, he got on to the NFT bandwagon and he was able to monetize close to about 10 million dollars worth. Basically, the art or the video or the photocopies belonging to him. And that was the monetization. And the story goes on. Many of you would have heard about Top Shot, which is basically a screen grab or the video grab of the famous movements from the games under the ages of NBA. And they are having growing sales volume. They've been able to garner almost about half a billion dollars in terms of sales. And then we also came to know about or rather we have read about Jack Dorsey's first tweet, which got sold for 2.9 million dollars. So the NFT market is expected to grow by by many, many times, and it is expected some analysts expect that it is going to grow from 330 million dollars to 370 billion dollars. That's a staggering amount, right? 370 billion dollars by 2030 and at rates that are unimagined. So what is a non fungible token and what is actually pioneering the this particular phenomena to put things in simple non fungible token is set of data, which is contained on a digital ledger called blockchain. And each NFT non fungible token, it represents a unique digital item. So the access to the copy of the original file is not restricted to the owner of the token. That means, for example, if I take Mona Lisa and the Louvre Museum in France, if they decide to create NFTs of Mona Lisa, the original painting of Mona Lisa is still owned by the Louvre Museum or belongs to them. And the owner of that particular NFT cannot claim ownership of the original file, but the owner can claim ownership of the digital copy of that particular Mona Lisa. And then, you know, it can be created in multiple numbers. And that is what it leads to multiple NFTs. And the unique ownership of each of that particular NFT can be tracked on blockchain and the proof of ownership can be established in earlier days. What used to happen is, for example, if you had a screen grab of something or a video grab of something, the ability to reproduce that is unlimited, right? Anybody can get a screen grab or a video grab of that. And then they can say that they are rightful owners of that particular content. There was no mechanism by which they could establish that they were the rightful owners and all those who copied that recklessly are not the rightful owners. And that particular problem is now being addressed by NFTs, wherein it is bringing in the uniqueness to that digital asset or to that digital file. It is bringing in interoperability. It is bringing in scarcity. And most important, it is bringing in what we call as indivisibility. So what are the rapid drivers for growth of NFT? One is technology has made it easily accessible and the technology has made it easy to interact from a blockchain perspective. In the absence of this technology, anybody would have copied it and they would have claimed that they are the rightful owners of that particular digital content or the digital file, but blockchain has been able to bring in unique identity, unique ownership, not only identity and ownership, but also an ability to prove the ownership of that digital file. And then the marketplaces have sprung up. There are various marketplaces like Rarible, OpenSea, Super Rare and many, many others, which had made it possible to trade in these NFTs. And also the monetization has started happening. If you look at CryptoKitties, which kind of triggered the craze of NFTs originally, or the crypto collectibles originally, where it has made it possible where the content creators are able to create the content and monetize it to the segment which represent basically the buyer segment. And then the early adopters, there have been many early adopters which led to the growth of this particular ecosystem. So is this confined only to particular brands? No, several brands have adopted NFT because they feel that it is the next level of engagement, especially when it comes to the millennials, especially when it comes to the digital native customers, and especially when it comes to the customers who are very, very savvy from an online presence perspective, or those who engage on the digital media, and they basically want to move away from the physical ownership to the digital ownership. And that digital ownership could be land, digital land, it could be digital avatars, it could be digital apparel, it could be digital sneakers, or anything as a matter of fact, that they can represent in the digital world, and which basically helps them to establish and reiterate their digital avatar. So for example, Visa has bought CryptoPunk, it's one of the famous category of NFT, and they paid a whopping 50 ether to buy that particular CryptoPunk, primarily to add to its collection of historic commerce artifacts. Budweiser also bought a sketched beer rocket as an NFT, and it is basically using it as an official Twitter profile picture, and the rest of the brands you can see on the screen, we have Taco Bell, we have Louis Vuitton, we have Coca-Cola, all of them have imbibed NFTs and got onto the NFT bandwagon. So let's now look at in terms of, you know, how do we bring in a method to the madness, if I may say so, and also how do we bring in a structured and the modular approach towards NFTs. For the strong adoption of NFTs, we need a pretty strong technological and functional foundation, primarily to operationalize it, and there are various pieces that will help us to accomplish that. So one is obviously the crypto services, that's why NFTs are also called as crypto collectibles, then wallet management becomes an important key factor. Ability to integrate with multiple applications and multiple platforms is important, which is facilitated by integration suite. And from a digital platform perspective, both from a front end and a backend perspective, you need to have a next generation coding platform, which basically redefines the user interface and the user experience. And from a monetization perspective, obviously we need to have access to the payment gateways, and also the currency conversion functionalities. Not only the currency conversion functionality from a fiat currency, but also from a cryptocurrency and obviously the alerts and notifications. Then obviously the engagement has to happen from a multiple platforms perspective, the user sometimes may access it from their mobile phones, from their smart devices, from their laptops, so on and so forth. So multi-device capability becomes important, and the ability to onboard customers in a seamless fashion, in a frictionless fashion, wherein the entire onboarding process becomes memorable, becomes an integral aspect to make the NFT platform from a perspective of driving a lot more adoption. So what are the key areas of NFT applicability? I had mentioned to you about crypto collectibles, cryptocities, that's an area where we are seeing a lot of adoption. Cypherpunk is another category of crypto collectibles that we are seeing in the NFT area. From a real estate perspective, we have players like Decentral Land, where they are selling land on internet and they are using NFTs. It is like, you know, we have heard about Metaverse, so it is basically a completely different engagement option and a different engagement platform where the land is being created and being sold. We have also seen NFT adoption from an asset lifecycle management. We have seen NFTs in gaming and then NFT marketplace where the creators and the buyers of that content come together and then basically it creates a circular economy wherein there is a supply and demand for the NFTs. And also we are seeing an interesting application from an NFT perspective where people are also using NFT for identity management. So, you know, when you're creating or when they are creating their digital identities, they need to create a unique identifier which gets clearly differentiated from others, either from an avatar perspective or from an identity perspective. So that's an area where we are seeing a lot more adoption and obviously in the music industry where the music creators are able to tokenize their music and sell it in bits and pieces by creating, associate NFTs. And it not only helps them to monetize their music content, but it is also helping them to manage their royalty very well and also manage their royalty payments. And what NFT has triggered from an expensive art perspective is the fractional ownership. For example, if there's, you know, I referred to about Monalisa and if Lure Museum ever want to create an NFT of Monalisa, obviously they're going to price it much high. And some of the people would like to invest in that from two perspectives. One, it is a good collectible item. Number one, it adds to their library of collection. They could be connoisseurs of art. Number two, they may also invest in it with an intent of, you know, monetizing it at a later point of time. But if those NFTs are priced very high, where the pricing becomes very prohibitive, then the people may not, many people may not participate in that. That's when the fractional ownership comes into picture where there could be four people who can get together and then they can get into a consortium kind of a model where the ownership is either equally divided between them. Or the ownership can be structured according to the proportion of the investment or the proposition of the money they put in into. And this basically leads to, you know, instant authenticity. It leads to time share on NFTs or fractional ownership on NFT and also ability to create unique expensive digital assets where pricing doesn't become any more prohibitive for new segment of investors and new segment of collectors to come into the frame. So what now let's look at in terms of what are the hurdles in deploying NFTs. There is also criticism from an NFT perspective, and that criticism is primarily coming forth from an energy consumption perspective from a legal adherence perspective, and also from a misconstrued interpretation from an ownership and a copyright perspective. I mentioned to you, again, with reference to Mona Lisa, once you buy NFT, it doesn't mean that you also have ownership in the original painting of Mona Lisa, right? Number one. And number two, what people are also saying is since the ownership guidelines and the regulation around the ownership on NFTs is still evolving. From a best practice perspective, a lot of advisors and a lot of people are saying that you should go and register that NFT as a copyright as you would do in the conventional world. Suppose you bought an expensive NFT and somebody has just copied it and they are using it in the digital media and you want to restrain them from using it. You want to prevent them from using it. Just having the ownership which you can establish from an NFT perspective is not defendable in the courts, in the physical courts. So to do that, you also have to go and register it. And you also have to go and create an ownership as you would do with regards to the physical ownership. So there's the best practices concerning around that are still not clear. So there is a lot of what do you call lack of clarity or misconception pertaining to the ownership and a copyright perspective. Now let's look at what are the key NFT trends in the future. Obviously, as I mentioned to you, the market size is going to increase at unbelievable growth rates of 100% CAGR or in excess of 100% CAGR. So let's look at in terms of what are the key trends that are going to come up. One is in terms of there will be an exponential rise in enterprise adoption of NFTs across industries. A lot of brands are looking from an NFT perspective. It's quite weird that there are people who are buying expensive physical Louis Vuitton bags and they're also buying a digital version of those Louis Vuitton bag online. So there will be an adoption of those NFTs across industries. NFTs will be positioned as a next level of engagement from a perspective of immersive experiences from a perspective of fan frenzy and from a perspective of fan tokens and a fan engagement perspective also. I mentioned to you about fractionalization of NFTs. We covered this at length and we will also be looking at NFTs and their involvement from a metaverse perspective. We spoke about using NFTs either for digital authors, either for decentralized and various other things. And then obviously it is going to bring in what we call as I NFTs, the intelligent NFTs. Where NFTs are given an artificial intelligence personality and then you can have conversations with them and they can learn new things. Pretty much like your digital assistants like Siri, digital assistants like Alexa. And one good example is a company by name Aletheia AI. They have already received about $16 million in funding from NFT players. So now let me take the liberty and let me use this particular opportunity to present what Tech Mahindra is doing in the exciting world of non-fungible tokens. We have launched a marketplace way back in July 2021, wherein we provided access to purchase and resell of thousands of rare collectibles across sports, gaming, arts and music. And this was opened up to audience across the globe. This particular network, this particular platform was developed using MATIC network. Then what are the key features of our NFT platform? It is the world's first cross-industry NFT platform accepting crypto and non-crypto payments. We will be launching this officially in mid of December and the features that we have built in are as follows. One, obviously it gives an option to create and sell tokenized digital assets, offers ability to transfer the tokens directly to the other accounts. Bias can tokenize their NFTs. It is going to bring in NFT from a fast and from a total cost of ownership at a lesser total cost of ownership as this particular platform has been structured on Polygon. It also facilitates, as I said earlier, ability to deal in NFTs in multiple payment modes, whether it is fiat currency, whether it is plastic currency, whether it is direct payment through ACH deposits or through crypto. And obviously it is going to be a marketplace where buyers can list their NFTs for resale not only on our platform, but also on the third-party marketplaces. And obviously it supports multiple wallets and multiple tokens. The wallets that are supported are some of the leading wallets in the industry like Metamars, Portes, Tourists and several others. This particular screen gives you a perspective of the various NFTs that we would be selling on our particular platform. It gives you a test drive of our platform from an account page, from a login page and from a landing page perspective. And the indicative screenshots continue on this particular slide. With this, I bring my presentation to an end and now I open the floor from questions. Back to you, Julian. Okay, great. That was great. Thank you, Rajesh. That was a lot of great information. So everyone, please do now start asking questions. If you want to raise a question, if you want us, we can let you in and ask questions in person. So raise a hand. But I think we already have a number of questions there, right, in the Q&A. Do you want me to go through those? Yes, please. If you could, let's answer one by one. We have ample time. So yeah, we have definitely ample time, right? So the first one from Vidya Shankar. He said, if a digital file could be reproduced, why would one spend so much money to own an NFT? Good question. Good question. Good question. I would like to draw an analogy from the physical world, right? And we have seen it with the expensive brands. So you have a market for original Rolex watches and you also have a market for fake Rolex watches. And it goes to Mont Blanc, it goes to Louis Vuitton bag and various other things. We were not able to do this before in the digital world, primarily because these deterrents to copy, reckless copying were non-existent. And now that you have a technology which can clearly differentiate from an expensive, original digital art, from a reproduced or a digital art which has been copied without underlying permissions, earlier you were not able to tell them apart. Today you can tell them apart. With that, it has created a new breed of investors who feel that it's a lot more easy to collect this digital art compared to the physical art. The physical art is subjected to decay, physical art is subjected to various risk factors, physical expensive goods are subjected to various risk factors, they're subjected to burglary and various other things. So this new class of collectors and the new class of investors think that in the digital world it's a lot more easy to safeguard them and they also want to create a very good identity, a very good avatar for them in the digital world and that is what they are collecting. One good example is all of us grew up collecting the diecast model of various cars. I had a collection of BMW, I had a collection of Lamborghini, I had a collection of Mercedes-Benz. I could possibly collect them three to five. Now let's look at the digital version of those cars which are produced by these brands and they are exclusive and they are limited in supply. Now instead of collecting three to five, I end up collecting maybe 10, 20, 30 or 40. It becomes easy to maintain, it becomes an investment avenue for me. I collect them and then later sell it on at a later point of time. So it's a completely new set of buyer behaviors. It is a completely new set of behavioral economics and it is completely a new set of marketplace which some of us may not understand but millennials, the digital natives and savvy collectors think that that is the next level of engagement and that is why they are able to invest a lot of money in that particular area. Hopefully that should answer the question, Julian. Definitely that was great. And I think there's still, as you say, demystifying is part of the challenge here, right? Absolutely. So someone's asking, so anyone who has a photograph of Mona Lisa can create an NFT of the Mona Lisa even though they are not physically owners, correct? Yeah, in terms of, so what is going to happen is in terms of one, do you have the rights to create that particular NFT? Tomorrow if you create an NFT, the original owners, in this case, I presume it is Lour Museum could go back after those guys technically, they can go back after those guys and sue them because they have created that without underlying permissions and without underlying digital rights to create that particular thing. What is this going to spawn? It is going to spawn a completely new set of industry. I wouldn't be surprised tomorrow, you know, some companies appear on the horizon where they're going to scan the entire internet and identify people who are infringing on these kind of things. And then a business model gets created wherein they can take them to court or they can put them to litigation and those guys will either have to bring it down or end up paying the expensive fees and fine for indulging in such practices. So there's going to have to be a kind of relook at copyright law and a whole kind of intellectual property because of course you have a right to take a photograph of Mona Lisa, I can go to the Mona Lisa I can take a photograph and show my friends I went there, right? But you can't sell it and claim it that I own the Mona Lisa, right? Exactly, you can't monetize and some of it is already happening in our current world, right? For example, you go to the first show of a Hollywood blockbuster movie and then technically you could sit in the theater, open your phone or camera, copy it. That doesn't mean that you can open it for unlimited viewership. It will be sued because though technology is there wherein you could just copy it, technology is there to stream it but you don't have underlying permission. You don't have underlying right and you don't have underlying ownership to that particular content to be streamed. So the same thing is going to be extended in the digital world as well. Yeah, because I think you spent some good time on the misconceptions, right? And there was a lot of misconceptions, I think, out there. Misconstrued ideas about intellectual property, about how you own it or you don't own it. So I think there's going to be a lot of discussion and education I think in this area, right? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So, all right, so I got lots of questions about Mona Lisa becoming an even more famous painting. Does any copies of Mona Lisa with new creation can be a newer NFT of the same value? So I think that's the same question, right? So yeah, obviously once someone's taken a picture of NFT, many people can take a picture of Mona Lisa, right? Yeah, I can give another example. So you have this player, the most valuable player, Cope Bryant, who is no more. And Cope Bryant was very famous for reverse dunking, where he used to not see the basket and then put the ball in the basket, right? And there's another basketball player by the name LeBron James. And LeBron James did a reverse dunk in tribute to Cope Bryant. Now this particular thing was telecast on the TV. And the rightful owner of that particular content is the National Basketball Association. And that was shown on all the sports channels. So NBA went one step ahead and it created an NFT out of that reverse dunk and then put it for auction. That was sold for quarter million dollars. Now I could have said crazy. I could have gone to a sports channel. I could have, you know, took a video grab of that reverse dunk shot. And then I will put it on internet and I will say, hey, you know, NBA is selling it for quarter million dollars. I will sell it for two million, sorry, two dollars. That is technically possible, but it is not legally possible and it is not ethically possible because that shot belongs to the ownership of that particular shot belongs to only two people. Either it is LeBron because he was the creator of that particular shot or it belongs to NBA because they have ownership to that content in a rightful fashion. Now, can I put it for sale? Yes, 100%. I can put it for sale. Will I be successful? No, I won't be successful because NBA and their team of lawyers will come after me and then I will be forced and I will be compelled to bring it down and if I don't bring it down, there could be a lawsuit against me including imprisonment. So those are the factors that come into the play backed up by the blockchain technology wherein you can clearly establish who is the rightful owner of that particular content junior. Okay, thank you. I think that's another great example. Okay, I have many questions now. They're piling in. So I'm trying to group them. So let's look at the tech, right? So I know it's using polygon using hyperledger tech. How are you minting it? How does that work? Which kind of tech are you using? How do people produce NFT system? So in terms of early on many NFTs have been created on Ethereum. And because of these creation of NFTs on the Ethereum network, the volume has gone up quite significantly as a result of which the processing speed has come down and also the gas fees has gone up. So then came NBA top shots, which created their own platform called Flow. They didn't want to be on Ethereum because the network was getting choked up. The transaction fee was going up. So they went and created Flow and NBA top shots is on a protocol which is Flow. So there was a new polygon which became the underlying blockchain protocol for many other players in the NFT world. And polygon gave a capability using the amatic network. Basically, you have a platform where you could repurpose that and then create your own NFT platforms. Obviously, Julian, you guys came to the fore and you are now bringing up the capability through the hyperledger stack wherein you want to bring in the fractional NFTs into the play. So these are the tech stacks that are currently available in the marketplace. They could be more, but these are the ones that I am familiar with and I am very conversant with. Okay, and I think that adds to the there's so many different platforms interoperability. Do you think about interoperability between platforms? Do you think that's something that maybe not there today, but will be moving of assets between different platforms? Yeah, so at least what is happening is it gives you the ability to create NFT and at least put it up on multiple marketplaces. And when you put it up on multiple marketplaces, the discovery of that NFT becomes very, very important. And that tech today from interoperability from a marketplaces is available. But will you be able to create NFT in one particular stack and then sell it in another stack and then recreate it in another stack? I don't think that is available at this juncture. What I'll possibly, I mean, what I'll do is I'll ask Dharmine to basically throw some more light on that. He's on this call if somebody can unmute him, Dharmine can come in and provide long-term perspective. So Dharmine, he can unmute himself. Dharmine? Yeah, hi. Good afternoon. Good evening, everyone. Yeah. So from interoperability, what is what are your views from interoperability? As I said, interoperability is there from a marketplace perspective, at least from a discovery perspective, you can create one particular underlying blockchain protocol and put it in multiple marketplaces. So the question is, are you able to create an NFT in one protocol, create it into another protocol, recreate it in another protocol? Can you throw some light on that? Yeah, absolutely. And the good thing is the tech is evolving over there, but we are still in an early stage. So what that would mean is basically interoperability takes three things. One is basically the identity, which is unfortunately locked within a blockchain. Second is basically the policies, smart contracts, they are not portable. I mean the contract, eventually whatever your tokens, whatever you're doing, be it NFT, which is an ERC721 or 11155 or any other. That's part of your contract and the contracts are not portable. And the last is basically how does somebody really verify the authenticity is basically by having all the blocks of that particular network. And these blocks are specific to our network. So nobody can really verify, okay, you are really the authentic owner. But having said, there are protocols like say Polkadot, there are other protocols, we already have bridges. So the bridges are able to kind of move your tokens from one platform to another. And those bridges are still new. There are a lot of swapping liquidity pools that are available, which do it for you. And there are bridges which actually burn tokens on one network and then basically take that transaction and swap that tokens onto another network. So that's how you're able to do that. But it will take a little bit more time for make it mainstream and we all know everybody waiting for it very eagerly for the interoperability to be solved. But although early stage, but there is good amount of work going in that space. So that mean, you know, staying there staying on that particular discussion point and looking at different capabilities, possibilities that are there under the family of protocols and applications that are there in hyper ledger. There is a comment saying hyper ledger cactus can also play an important role in interoperability, especially when it comes to read and write with multiple chains. So cross chain reading and you want to add a few more. Absolutely. And there's good amount of work that has happened and good that we now have cactus and there is some contribution that has happened from different enterprises as well. Accenture did a little bit. So, you know, so basically, but the solutions that we see today interoperability even with cactus and the ones that we have are, you know, kind of having a service which governs these different ownership mechanism outside the protocol. So basically what happens is say you have a network of hyper ledger and then you have a sort to then probably other networks are under hyper ledger or any other. So it has to be somebody in the middle who kind of tries to play a consolidator or kind of a notary role which then keeps track of who is who and who has done what. And then that becomes a source of truth to figure out who is the ownership of what are which token has the ownership where you know, so that's how it has started. So this interoperability with cross chain read write right now it's I see more of a solution which is still progressing right now what we have is commodity or notary kind of sitting outside which keeps a track of so that it can become a source of truth for all the change to kind of prove who is the owner of what token and where it has moved over. So, but yeah, I think, you know, we're very exciting space to look for and contribute at this point. Thanks, that made with that back to you Julian if there any any other questions. There's still a lot of questions right so another place is actually I noticed you said that there's a lot of it sport entities bought with crypto you're saying crypto and fear right. So basically, how is this these two worlds going to coexist this is how does NFT and crypto coexist but I think it's a, it's an emerging space, right. Right, so if you look at crypto kiddies, most of the crypto kiddies based on their generation one cat or generation two cat, and they have something called as a cat tributes, they are sold primarily in either. But if you go to NBA top shots, they are primarily sold in the US dollar, you know, they're linked to the US dollar. So it basically depends on the marketplace creator. A lot of people, for example, they want the token to be used. That's primarily because they want to create a use case for the token. For example, if you look at polygon, and if you go to decentral land, or if you go to various digital assets that are there, they are either listed in mana, or they listed the prices are listed in polygon. Now what happens is, as a buyer, I don't have polygon, but I may have Bitcoin, I may have ether, I may have any other coin. Then I do the conversion depending on the gateway that is their payment gateway that is there on NFT. There are many, many such payment gateway providers who are there. They will do on the fly conversion from one alternate coin to another alternate coin, and you can pay using that. That means you're basically opening it up to set of people who are already well invested in the cryptocurrencies. But how about the set of people who are not invested in cryptocurrencies, who have access to fiat, and they also want to get on to this bad wagon of NFT and start collecting those NFTs. That's why we had given the ability to pay from a fiat currency perspective also. And then in addition to that, there is now added complexity with the sword hanging on the head, where some of the countries want to ban cryptocurrencies. So if the cryptocurrencies are banned, does it mean end of the road for NFTs? No, it is not the end of the road for NFTs. That's where the payment and dealing in NFTs in fiat currency comes to the rescue. That is why you see both the practices that are applicable in Julian. Okay, excellent. So actually I've got somebody who's raised their hand. So I'm going to ask, I don't know whether I'm allowing you Bhaskar to talk, right? So Bhaskar, are you there? Bhaskar Nandi? He's on mute now. All right. So if you want to unmute, you can ask, right? A question. So if anyone else wants to raise a hand, please raise a hand, right? I see the questions coming in now. So how do you make it easy for creating pay? Actually, one question is basically once you bought it, how do you then transfer it to somebody else, right? Because it's a marketplace, right? What's that method for transfer? How do I transfer the ownership of this NFE once it's sold? Yeah, once it is sold, the underlying smart contract facilitates the transfer. We don't have to do anything. The ownership changes from the seller's wallet to the buyer's wallet and the smart contract gets updated. Your identity is going to be based on the wallet that gets represented from a receipt of funds and from a remit of funds, right? The buyer is going to remit the funds and the seller is going to receive the funds. And the smart contract, which is there, it is going to make that updation. And once that updation happens, the transfer of ownership is facilitated and it is recorded on the underlying blockchain. Dharmine, would you like to add anything over there? Yeah, absolutely. So the way it works is, as Rajesh mentioned, it's underlying the smart contract which takes care of transferring ownership. So when you own a token, basically you own a token, nobody can steal it away from you. But when you put it for sale, then typically what you're saying is you're authorizing the smart contract eventually to kind of transfer the ownership on your behalf after receiving the underlying sale value in terms of crypto that you might have put it for sale. So yeah, the underlying transfer of ownership is taken care by the platform where the smart contract does the underlying thing, the transfer of ownership. Just to add to that Dharmine, the mechanisms are very similar to the mechanisms that are applicable in buying and selling of cryptocurrencies, right? When you are buying a cryptocurrency and then selling it to some other person, then there is ownership that happens and the transfer of, sorry, there is a transfer of ownership that happens from one wallet holder to another wallet holder and the underlying smart contracts and the underlying blockchain network records that transfership. The mechanisms are the same with NFT, isn't it? Absolutely, that's right. Yeah, it's instant settlement, right? T plus zero, there's no settlement clearing, right? It just happens instantly, right? Exactly. You have to be very careful, very clear what you're buying something, right? So buyer beware and all that. So another question, could you please expand on the intersection of NFTs and DAOs, right? You talked a little bit about that. Obviously autonomous organizations have been smart contracts. Can you talk a little bit more about that? The interface, I didn't quite catch it, Julian. NFTs and DAOs. DAOs, okay, decentralized autonomous organizations. Understood, understood. So basically the way I see it, decentralized autonomous organizations are the ones that could, you know, govern the marketplaces, that could govern the underlying payments that are applicable in those marketplaces, and that could govern the underlying tokens that get used. For example, you know, if there is a DAO called A that comes and then they have a marketplace which is B, and in that particular marketplace, a new class of tokens called C could be used in addition to existing tokens that are there. So the owners of the marketplace, the underlying rules, the underlying principles, then in terms of the, you know, the protocols, the updation to the protocols could broadly sit under the DAO, which is the governing body, where there is, you know, the DAO is basically from a perspective of there's no physical identity for that particular thing. And based on the fundamental rules that are written into the code base, at the time of inception of DAO will govern. The governance mechanism comes automatically through those decentralized autonomous organizations, and NFT becomes just a class of commerce or a class of service that gets provided or that gets rendered under the overall umbrella of DAO. Okay, so excellent. So maybe we'll go a little bit more to the tech again, right? So you mentioned, I want to slide, you talked about the challenges, right? Because it's, you've got to manage a wallet. You've got to do integration to the apps. You've got to do, you have a project, you have a payment gateway, which will be multiple currencies. And then you talk about fractionalization. Where do you think most of the challenges existed while you're working? Where do you see the most challenging components of putting this NFT network together? So the most challenging comes from a compliance perspective and it resonates with the comment that one gentleman called David Rao put on the chat screen. You know, when you translate it from the digital world to the physical world, and once that translation happens, that's where the complexities are going to come from. And the fact that it is a smart contract doesn't mean that it is a legally enforceable contract, right? The court of law in the underlying countries or in the countries where NFT is available should also recognize it. That's why I said before, the best practice, you know, if you invest in $50, $100 kind of NFTs, you really don't care from a perspective of enforcing it through the court of law. But if you're investing in $100,000, $200,000 worth of NFT, that's where the additional protection that is available from a court of law becomes a lot more important. And a lot needs to be done in that particular area. And we have spoken about DAO. DAO is an entity by itself, but does it have a legal standing? No, it doesn't have a legal standing. It has to be recognized by a participating court of law for that DAO to be enforceable in the physical world as well. There's been a lot of best practices, a lot of best, you know, code of practices that need to emerge in this particular area. And I think that will emerge over the next two to 18 months. Okay, and I think you're definitely very much an emerging area, right? So are there other areas that you see that you had challenges with in terms of the wallet, the integration, were there any other kind of challenges that you saw? So in terms of what is happening, yeah, what is happening now is a lot of tech providers are emerging, a lot of protocol providers are emerging, you know, wherein you could take the underlying code base, repurpose that, and then create in terms of your own marketplace, you can create, you know, your own underlying tokens. And the good thing is most of it is open source, as is the case with the entire blockchain technology, right? That particular thing was not existing. Basically, the infrastructure layer, the infrastructure layer about six to 12 months ago was not that comprehensive, it was not easily existing, and it was not easily accessible. So from an infrastructure perspective, now it is becoming a lot more easier to put things in perspective or to draw in analogy from our physical world, like you have the Android ecosystem, you have the iOS ecosystem, where in the blockchain world, the decentralized app ecosystem, where the availability of the infrastructure players had led to the proliferation of those DAX. Same is the case with NFTs, wherein, you know, a lot of people now are contributing to that particular infrastructure layer, so that the content creators need not necessarily worry about that access to that underlying infrastructure. Okay, so we've got a couple of minutes left. So I'm going to ask a few kind of quick questions, right? I noticed in the streaming, we've got a question there. So when do you think NFTs will go mainstream? So they've already gone mainstream in multiple areas. If you look at digital fashion, digital fashion in olden days was like buying apparel online, right? That was the meaning of the digital fashion. Now digital fashion is getting a tuxedo done for your avatar in the digital world, and that is already a $10 billion industry, I was told, and it is very soon is going to become $30 billion industry. So with more and more brands jumping on to the, jumping on to the bandwagon, it is only bound to grow. At this point of time, there is a little bit of mania that is driving absurd valuations in NFTs, but that will settle down. And the price points will get corrected until and unless we are talking about a rate digital art or converting some of the rare physical artifacts into digital and selling them on the digital avenues. But NFTs are going to stay and they are going to define the next level of engagement from an immersive experience, as I mentioned to you, and also from a fan engagement perspective. Okay, I think we're kind of come to an end. Just one question, I think, obviously you said it's mainstream now in collectibles in fashion. How do you see other industries like financial services and other kind of industries, do you see it expanding beyond the scope of today? The way I see it is in terms of, you know, I referred about Visa participating in NFT more from a collecting perspective or more from a perspective of creating a unique differentiated identity for Visa as a brand on the digital channels. So lot more companies, lot more enterprises, lot more iconic organizations in that space are going to get on to the NFT bandwagon. From a new class of services, would they be available? At this point of time, I am tempted to say that they will be available, but if you ask me what those services are, I'm a little bit less. All right, I still have many questions, but we've run out of time, right? And I think, thank you so much. We were kind of worried that these questions are now piling in, right? And there are a lot of stuff. And I think you really have helped today to demystify the beginning of the journey of demystifying for everybody, right? And so Rajesh, thank you. Sorry, Julian. Sorry to interrupt since there are a lot of questions and it's an interesting area since people have invested time in this webinar. What we will do is if we can get an access to all those questions along with the coordinates of people, we will give written answer to each and every question. Excellent. Yes. And also if you're watching on YouTube, you can ask questions down below as well, right? So we're going to keep this interaction going, right? And thank you very much, Rajesh. Thank you for the great work that you're doing at Tech Mahindra and for sharing today. And thank you everyone for listening from all the way across Asia Pacific and Europe. And of course, I think people in the US, you'll be watching this on YouTube. So thank you everybody. Take care. Keep safe. Thank you. Bye. Thank you, Julian. Thanks, everyone. Stay safe. Bye for now.