 Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm your host, Jesse Cannon. And today I'm here with Benjamin Lieber. Ben is a creative director, visual artist and a musician. He has this great group Marigold. He used to be in this band Head North, who both of his groups always have this like really just cinematic quality to their music, like their songs would weave into one another. I'd be mastering these records and be like so funny like people would write me and say, I want my songs to weave together the way theirs do. And I'm like, you have to actually make parts that weave together. Mastering doesn't do that. Anyway, let's talk about Ben. So you'll hear in this part of why I wanted to talk to him is everywhere I look, I always see him getting tagged, just doing awesome work that when I look at him, like this looks awesome. I'll have mastered a song. I'll see he did the artwork. He'll make a video for some bad I see somebody else saying how good it is. So I'm like, I should talk to him. I kind of know this person and I should get to know him better since that's what we do here. But anyway, he's done all this great work and I want you to either before the starts or after it's done, zoom around his work in the description. I have videos for a bunch of beds. He's done work with like Seaway bearings, barely civil, the blue chips. He's done great, great, great work. So go to his website, which is Benjamin Lieber.net, which is also linked down below. Click around, take in what he's doing. He's got lots of advice on if you can afford him how you do this yourself. And I think he delves into a lot of interesting things on how to make great content in this video. So I hope you check it out. Enjoy. So super psych to have you. We've known each other because I've mastered some projects for you. And then I've always stayed in touch. But the funny thing that I and the reason I want to talk to you is I feel like I keep looking on social media. And whenever I see something looking cool, and I'm like, oh, wow, that's great art. Oh, that video is great. I'm like, what the fuck? How are you doing all this? These are so many different things. So I wanted to have you on to talk today about how you're doing all these cool things. Starting off with a very big compliments, which always leads to a big blush. But so tell us how you got here to doing what you're doing tonight. Well, like you said in the beginning, kind of started in music, you mastered some records for my old band, Head North, which was out of high school and then five, six years out of high school. My main thing playing in that band to worry around the country and making connections that way in the music industry. That kind of slowed down a little bit in like 2016, 2017. I moved to New York and didn't really know what I wanted to do yet. But obviously like music was just this thing that had started in my life and it was kind of never going to stop. So once I figured out that I kind of had a knack for photography and image creation in general, I just kind of started pursuing that and, you know, tied the two together, just started reaching out to my friends in music and asking for them to let me take their picture. Yeah, I don't know, just kind of snowball from there went really well. And I think that because I had like that supportive network set up already, it just allowed me for like every project to really like expand my brain and keep learning and growing and funny looking back at like my first few works, like I can see myself learning and growing exponentially with every project. So I've attributed it all to the network that I created when I started just playing in a band, really. It is a funny thing because like so many people like one get nervous. Like I actually do this one podcast I produce called killed by desk and it's all about people's career after they've been in the band and like what they move into. It's like the most common thing people talk about is is like, well, I toured with these people and then this person gave me this lecture, this person gave that. I'm like, yeah, punk rock and indeed the indie world in the underground world is the greatest networking thing of all time. Totally. This episode right now is a great example, you know, like what the first project we worked on together was probably 2014 or something like that. Yeah, I was a long time ago. Yeah, you know, that's just a great example of like it never really goes away. It's cool. So working on other people's like, obviously you worked on your own music and I imagine you'd have some people here with you. What considerations do you give when you're working with another artist and talk to me about like how you figure out what you're going to do with another artist when you work with them? Yeah, I mean, I like to keep it about the music as much as possible. I think that like because I do both and like have a brain that can understand both. I have like a unique perspective when it comes to what a band wants to be represented like visually. I don't know. I think a lot of the times artists know what they want and they see it in their head, but they don't know how to like articulate it because they're good at playing music. They're not good at, you know, like that's OK. Yeah. And that's how most people should be. So I think that because I've somehow like developed skills in both arenas, I can bridge that gap for people. And so yeah, usually it starts with the music for me. I mean, it has to come back to that at least. But oftentimes artists have like a ton of inspiration that drive that at least that record that they're working on or the band as a whole, where they say, this is, you know, this is what inspires us. And right off the bat, you know, there's always something that you can pull from from looking at inspiration. Obviously, a lot of my work is inspired by like older grungy shit. So I don't know, I just look at stuff that I think is cool. And I'm like, that's a really cool idea. I'm going to try and like do that in my own way. And I try to make it as much of a collaborative process as possible. Obviously, like, I don't really enjoy the kind of like gatekeeping. Some designers and visual artists are like, I'm going to do my thing. You're not a part of it. Like take it or leave it. And I don't really understand that because you wouldn't have a project if it weren't for the band's record. So like, it has to kind of like, circle around that, you know, yeah, the collaboration is big for me too. So let's talk a little bit more about this conversation. So like one of the things that I was really taken by was you sent me over some stuff that you've done with this band Seaway. And so I'm remembering right and I feel like I should have fact checked this before we taped but like Seaway was a much more pop punky band previously. Totally. Yeah, I mean, head north toured with them and knuckle puck in 2015, you know, we all were pop punk bands at that point. So yeah, guys were a little I wouldn't be a pop punk. Whatever it was. Jason, Jason. Yeah, Jason. Yeah, they have like transformed their sounds. And that's another example of like, you know, I did that tour with them. We just stayed friends and many, many years later through years of both of our growths as artists and people, we kind of kind of came together again at this point of like, this makes sense right now, because our lines have like, yeah. So what does collaboration look like with that? Like I imagine like, you know, like, there's like a funny thing of like kids will get so like, they'll think there's this nefarious thing, but it's like, obviously, they're positioning themselves as not looking like a bunch of idiots and hoodies. And that were that band that toured with knuckle punk. So what what are some of the thoughts that go into like, what were some of your considerations when you guys were making all these like really cool visuals? Totally. Yeah. I mean, they kind of came to me with the record. I don't know if you've listened to it at all, but it's like wildly different, you know, I think it's amazing. And I call it like a post 1975 pop punk. Now, you know, if I say that to somebody who doesn't know, they think it's the year, but I'm like, the bat. Yeah. Every song just like is so catchy. Like, even if you don't actively go to listen to like pop oriented music, there's no way that you can't like bite onto those hooks that they write. So they came to me with this record and it had, you know, it was just different, like had a lot of like heavier guitar and but also like radio pop melodies. And it was just like weird music that was totally different than anything they did. And they basically said to me, like, we don't want to do anything that we have done before. Like we want to change everything. We want to look different. We want to provide to be completely opposite. And started throwing some inspiration at me. A big inspiration was like Ziggy Stardust, David Bowie. We were looking at a lot of like cyberhuman stuff, like that kind of 90s future references, space Odyssey kind of stuff. Yeah, we were just like really looking for stuff that was like weird, like cool, but like not necessarily right off the bat, like giving you a direction or energy, just something that was like weird. And I don't know, we kind of I started coming up with this idea of like a hairless, featureless, almost robotic human, like perfect human kind of look. And then I teamed up with a friend of mine who does like FX makeup. We found this model. Really, I didn't have like the whole idea fleshed out my head when I went to like shoot it. I just wanted to get like a good base and then just experiment in Photoshop. And that's what happened. You know, I just came up with some crazy stuff in post with some great photographs to start. Yeah. And it is that funny thing because we all want to be like, oh, I conceived everything from the start. But like, there is so much, yeah, there's so much magic. I mean, I particularly, you know, it's like so funny, I'm so old into making music, like I've been making music for three decades. And but now that I've been like playing with cameras and lighting for the first time, it's like, I experiment like a kid again, and I see how much that helps. And I've gained this like huge sympathy for the bands in the studio because I'm like, wait, they're doing that exploration thing, whereas I always know exactly what I want to do. And I know to grab that pedal and just do it because it's in my head automatically. But none of the visual stuff's ever in my head because I don't have a vision yet. Totally. That's like the biggest thing for me is like, not, you don't have to know everything to like find good creativity. There's such as there's a specific beauty in like just wandering around in the dark and finding something spontaneously like, yeah, I think that's huge. And eventually, you know, 10 years from now in me just doing that, I will obviously like no more. And learn more than I do right now. And that will change how I approach certain things, of course. But I think that as long as you're continuing to like in whatever the next pursuit is like stumble around in the dark a little bit, I think is really important. I like that. So the others one of the other things you sent me was this video that was a diorama video for a group called Barely Civil. That was really, really cool. And so I I watched that. And it's like the funny thing is that I can see obviously I hate when people are like, Oh, I put no imprint on anything. It's like, I can see it through line of like your color palette in that from some of the other stuff I watched. But so when you're developing that, how does that happen with that group of like, because that seems like that was a lot of you compared to a collaboration. Whereas I see with the Seaway thing, a ton of collaboration and like them putting their own look on things. Tell me about that. Totally. Yeah. The Barely Civil video is like the band and the label came to me really literally all they gave me was we're looking to do this was like in March or April, like right when shit started to hit the fan they're like, we need a music video done remotely, I think was how they put it. And I was like, okay, that's like very ambiguous. But like let me see how I can spin that. And there's have you seen the movie Dinner for Schmuck's? I have seen that movie. Yeah. So in like, there's like the intro title sequence before the movie starts is like this camera, Mike, like macro camera pan over this like whole diorama set that Steve Carrell builds out of like the mouse people and stuff. Yeah, I thought it was so cool. And I'm kind of like kept it in the back of my head. I used to build dioramas with my dad when I was a kid for like Boy Scouts and stuff. And I don't know, I just kind of always had that that scene in the back of my head. And when they mentioned like a remote music video, I just thought of it. And then the like concept for the storyline was built from the song. And like the lyrics, you know, it's kind of like a code mantra for sure. Like people just kind of ruining the earth and burns to the ground. But the nice light light thoughts, nice light thoughts. So yeah, it just kind of like developed that way. And then I actually because I was staying with my parents at the time, because of coronavirus, I ended up doing that project with my dad, like the whole way through, like we built it, we planned it, we did all the scenes together. And it was a really nice, like collaborative experience. That's fucking rad. Yeah, it's really I mean, I should say every video that we're discussing this will all be linked below for people to watch. But I imagine so that's a nice wide burst. So I imagine that's coming from you getting inspired from things. Is there anything you've been like really watching that is lately that you've been like, wow, I really want to make this and like, how does that come into being in your work? Do you like keep track of that stuff? Do you do do anything like that? Kind of, I think it happens in tandem. Like, I will see something that inspires me. And then maybe a week later, a band will hit me up, but won't have an idea. And I'll just be like, pull it over right into there. Or vice versa, you know, I'll a band will hit me up. I won't know what to do. And then I'll stumble upon something and it'll give me an idea. I a lot of ideas that I've been like, personally, holding on to the past like four or five months have been put into stuff for my band Miracle them working on a new record, we just shot a bunch of music videos for it that I like creatively directed. And they're all kind of like, it's kind of like becoming my my big baby. So, yeah, a lot of ideas have been shot into that. But yeah, I don't know, I just kind of like find it and then find a way to apply it. Nice. Yeah, I definitely want to get into how you been doing that with that record. But so one thing I'm going to get into before that is that so you also, and this was one of the impetus for the conversations, I think like, first I saw some art you did for a group called Pollyanna that I mastered. And then I saw this blue chip stuff on your Instagram. And so you're also building more than just the video, you're also building like stories and other thing assets for the group. Tell me how you talk a group through with that whole look thing and how you talk about the aesthetic. You're referring to like the actual conceptual story? Yeah, well, if I recall, you also made some Instagram story art for them and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Oh, I see you're talking about like the assets. Like so everything that comes along with that, what does that look like that? Because like, I think about like 10 years ago when I was managing bands, like I wouldn't have to say the director get me anything aside from something I could put on YouTube. Yeah, yeah, totally. I mean, there's definitely like so much more to consider now. And sometimes it's at the headache. But I try to look at it in a positive light in that like there's just 10 more ways that you can like expand the one idea that you have, even like, I don't know how recent if it was yesterday or recently like Spotify just gave all artists access to canvas. Yeah, last week. You know, so I'm going to be wrecking busy as hell. Yeah, I don't know. I like to as I do this stuff more and more, I experienced what works, what doesn't work when when trying to expand ideas to fit those different subcategories of what you need. I think that every time I do it, I take mental notes of like what works, what doesn't work. And when coming up with the main idea for the next project, you structure it in a way that is slightly open ended and can allow you to take it in different directions. The seaweed project is a huge example of that. You know, I didn't go into the photo shoot thinking this is what it's going to be. It's only going to be this, you know, I created something that was flexible so that when literally like eight months later, I needed to make all these different pieces of content for YouTube or Instagram or whatever. It was there, you know, and there was still like meat to be picked off the bone in a way. I like that. Yeah. So you have this upcoming record with Marigold. This is your third fourth record for your third, third record. Yeah. Nice. So tell us about that and what has changed in the group. Yeah. So up until now, Marigold has just kind of been like my solo projects that I started when head north started to chill out. And it was just like, well, I'll do this to like write some songs and I won't really like invest too much in it. That kind of has like not suffice for me the past year or two. I was stupid busy all of last year getting visual art business like off the ground. And I was really only focusing on that. I was living in New York and I just not stopped moving all the time had no time to write music whatsoever. And this year that you know, towards the end of last year, I felt that like absence of writing music. And I also at the same time felt really stale in just my songwriting like within myself, I felt like I kept writing the same thing. I was just playing the G chord for 20 minutes and didn't know what to do anymore. So I didn't I decided that I didn't want it to be a just me thing anymore. So long story short, I got a band and Marigold is a band now. I met the rest of the band through touring past couple years just various connections and it really like would not have become the thing that it has been if not for COVID March and April hit and all of a sudden I had so much time on my hands. And so I just wrote a record and feel really good about it. And we basically wrote it together remotely, like we just sent shit back and forth to each other. And you guys are talking like literally like laid down to a quick drop box back Yeah, like I would you know, I'd have initial ideas. I would like make it some sort of structure to like fake drums and garage band. And then I would send them all the stems and they would you know, make you make his drum track and then base track, we put them together and see what didn't work and then redo it a million times. And you know, it was definitely like the weirdest writing process I've ever experienced, but it was had to happen that way. And like, I don't know, it all worked out and I'm so proud of what we created. It's easily like the best music I've ever written. And it's because of like the collaboration. I have really learned that a lot this year is that collaboration is like so, so important. So yeah, we recorded it finally end of September with Eric Romero. Awesome. Right. I've worked with, I've worked with him on some Kevin DeVyde stuff. Yeah, he's great. He's so talented. It was a blast. He's like one of the most creative people I've ever met. And yeah, we just we created a fucking awesome record. So now, yeah, it's like in the mixing and mastering process. And we just like two weeks at weekends ago, had a big weekend. We filmed three music videos. And I like creative really creatively directed all of them. So that's really, really exciting. These videos are kind of like the cross point of like all my things. So they're they're definitely very close to me and I'm very proud of them. So we said that the cross point of all your things tell me about what that looks like. It's basically like write, record an entire album, and then do the other side of things of like having the visual idea directing a project, executing all of it, but also like being in the band. So yeah, it was it was stressful. Yeah, yeah. But I had a ton of help. We had a great team together. And that was the other thing too was like, I went into it saying I want to hire my friends. I have so many talented friends. This is going to be a collaborative project. I'm not going to do everything. So that was like having that approach from the start was really, really important. So obviously, you get to be a little objective when you work with other groups. How do you maintain your objectivity through doing this? Yeah, definitely, like, I know what I want. There's a lot of like conceptualism to this record that we've created. There's specific imagery, there's specific color palettes, you know, I really, from start to finish have kind of like, I didn't want to just create like marigold three, like it's definitely a specific thing. And I would like to think that like what the ideas that we've created are cool enough that like, anyone that wants to work on it is like down to just further that idea. That's really how I like to put it. Because I think that it's important to like, see it through and execute it correctly. And collaboration to do that can be really valuable. So yeah, that's kind of like how I've put it, like, the idea is important. Help me do it. Gotcha. That's rad. What do we see on the horizon for when people will be seeing this? Oh, no, man. I mean, it's we're kind of coming to like a weird time in the year. Just regarding it's like music industry in general. As I joke, last week was the last week, anybody got anything gets anything done till the end of January. Exactly. So yeah, I don't know. I'm kind of trying not to like, stress myself out about it. We're like, we literally are still like in the mix revision process. So there's a lot to come still. And because the year is kind of getting to this point, I'm almost in the headspace of like, attack it fresh in the new year, and you'll just be better, it'll feel better. Yeah, try not to rush it. It's the coolest thing I've ever done. So I'm trying to just let it take its time. I like that. So when you're creating all this stuff, like, we always say like, you know, it's like we're creating to see the things we want to see in the world now. Is there stuff you'd want fans to reach out to you to make in this world or do you think like that come to mind? I would love to like, this is a bit philanthropic, but I would love to do more visual art that is like conceptual and based around like more powerful, meaningful messages. If that makes sense, like, I'm down always down, I will always be down to like, just make cool shit for making cool shit sake. And I love just like making a band look cool. That's awesome to me. But I would like to test myself on creating something that has has a more powerful message. And I don't know what that, you know, specifically may be or not. But like, I think trying to like reach deeper while not sacrificing the like aesthetic thing that I've done well with like honing in on that's an interesting challenge to me. Yeah, no, it's like the funniest thing. Like I always say to people, especially people who like to mean pop music, I'm like, well, to me, making groundbreaking pop music nothing harder because if you're finding how to do something interesting while maintaining a hook, you're doing the two hardest challenges. But then if you add in the third thing of actual like, meaning and message with that, that's the hardest fucking thing to do no one pretty much can balance that act. Like it's the rarest thing that's ever occurred. So Right. Yeah, that's those that's those forever songs where someone could put it out today and would still pop off, you know. Yeah. And I so I totally always get that because I'm like, it's a funny thing of like, we all strive for it. It's so easy to be just in such bad taste when you do things that have overt meaning and are not buried in metaphor. Totally. Yeah. I don't know. I think that you got to start on one end, right? You got to like know how to make things be appealing, whether that's sonically or visually or whatever. And once you like get that as like second nature for yourself, then it's like, okay, start reaching deeper, but always come back to that always come back to that. How far can you go while still coming back to that place? I think it's really important. I like that. So let's talk a little bit more about like actual bull should have getting this done. So what you do is notoriously and I should say what you do with the many things you do music videos is notoriously a no money making game. Yet you're making great looking work. I know the labels and bands you're working with. They are not throwing you a bajillion dollars. How do you work to make this all like what goes into your work to get these great results? Because I should also say it's like that's the hardest thing that I think people underestimate about video directors when they haven't done work to the level you do it. It's like it takes fucking miracles to get work that works that great done on the budgets you're getting handed. So totally. Yeah. I mean it's always it's always a squeeze no matter what like it's just like a balancing act of knowing your worth but also understanding the world that you operate in and you know there's this added element of like I'm really just passionate about making stuff and like do I really care about the money but like I also need to make money and it's just a balancing act of all those thoughts. And I think as I just work more and do more projects I also you know as I build more and more of a portfolio for myself I definitely feel stronger and stronger in the this is what I'm worth kind of space. Frankly like I don't agree that there should be this like I keep saying the word day keep people like I don't I don't understand why it can't be like transparent like why there has to be this like tiered hierarchy to content creators and artists and yes whatever like we're all just like making stuff. I'm going to be completely upfront about like what I need to make to survive. You know I have X bills and that's that. So like and X time you know that I only have so much time so it's like you know I can crunch and push but like I think being realistic with yourself realistic with your client saying if they're asking too much for too little of you just being realistic and say like I literally don't have that much time for out for this you know so yeah I think like knowing your worth is like really what it comes down to just like you know I've worked my ass off the past two and a half years making all this cool shit and like to me that puts me at a point now where I can like have a little more standing ground and say like these are the things that I've proven that I can execute well like I don't know if that makes sense now it totally makes sense. So how about like equipment buy it like what are you investing in what do you where do you buy into yourself with all this stuff. It's a good question or is it rentals like what does that look like for somebody. Well I mean up until now it's definitely been a lot of investing in my own stuff like my desktop setup was a big purchase I got a 27 inch iMac 5k retina. It's great to work for us. My next thing will probably be upgrading the RAM but yeah like I've gotten myself to a point now where like I have the editing gear. I have you know basic photo and video gear. I have a video camera. I got a couple digital SLRs and I have like a film camera collection that I love and rely on. I'm starting to find myself in a point now where I feel like I have my bases covered and it's kind of coming in tandem with me. A goal of mine shifting into next year is to move away from like the do a million roles in one project person and shifting more into like I said the collaboration like hiring out working with a DP working with you know stylists not doing everything for every project and with that comes you know I don't want to like feel the need to buy all this new gear for every project and then own it and not make any profit you know so I'm trying to like but I had to I had to buy all the shit that I had to you know you have to invest at the start but I do feel myself starting to shift into a place of renting when I need to rent hiring out more often and just trying to make it less of like a continuous investment and more of like job comes in here's the cost here's the profit jobs comes in here's the cost here's the profit yeah that's a point it's like a funny thing because that is another thing that like I think people don't always consider in the life of it is like you know like kids all I say to me like oh my god what equipment would you buy right now and I'm like I don't know like I kind of own everything I need because I've been buying equipment since I was 15 and I'm 40 fucking two years old like I have 27 years of equipment I have to move it a few weeks it's not fun and there is that thing of like and now especially like with how much you can do in one or two boxes it's like it's not as much thing but you do need baseline before you can hit that point where like okay this one I'm not gonna have to spend all my money investing into the business so but you're doing a bunch of different creative formats though too so like you know if you're doing a video and I've even taken video wise you have dioramas you have these videos with Seaway we're like filming in industrial area I imagine that takes and I'm more saying this is a question of somebody who only started learning video in the last year that's got to take a wide span of stuff or is it really just knowing a lot of your tools it's both I mean the Seaway projects for example were a massive collaboration like I pretty much just handled everything in post the those videos were directed by Miguel Barbosa he goes by yeah yeah films out of Vancouver he's worked with Seaway and all the music videos their entire career he directed everything and then he hired a DP Kristoff Benfi in Toronto to film the whole thing so you know there was many levels of like hiring out Ben to edit hiring out the DP to light and film the entire thing using his lighting using his cameras etc you know so while like I did have a part in that I wouldn't you know I didn't handle like everything so that's that's an example of like we have this massive idea how can we make it make it happen rather than like hey Ben we have this massive idea we want you to film and edit and you know exactly so coming all the other on the other side to like the diorama stuff I'm a huge fan of like DIY and like making stuff work with what you have you know that that set and all of that stuff that I built for that video could have been way more legit I could have had I mean I literally had like you know Home Depot can lights and like you know it was not like legit at all but it worked and I think that I just often am like especially cause you know when a band comes in there like we got 400 bucks we need a music video and it's like well there's limitations to that but sometimes most of the time I think the limitations can spur creativity because you're like confined in a way to make it work and I just naturally like gravitate that way of like this is more tangible it's more realistic it's easier it's less overhead let's just do it this way and yeah I don't know I think limiting yourself a little bit helps you be more creative and make it cooler in the end like just get started and then you find it in the computer and be like holy shit you know I can just do this to it and it looks like totally different yeah it's always a funny thing that I joke about it's like when you're telling somebody who hasn't realized that limitations are the greatest thing ever they look at you with a look of just you were the biggest fucking idiot I've ever seen and then they get there and they're like oh I shouldn't have listened to that person totally so with that there's a lot about DIY stuff so for the musician who's just getting into this is looking at your work and saying wow this is amazing or the kid who wants to be you when they see your stuff where do they start with where do they grab what's some great DIY early cheap stuff that they should start working start grabbing I would get like a $200 Canon 5D Mark 2 they're great cameras they still work and you know whatever lens you look for and I would get honestly I love one of my favorite tools is a flatbed scanner I use it all the time so explain that I'm very curious about this yeah I mean the model is Epson perfection V550 photo it's so it's like technically a photo scanner but it's basically just flatbed scanner has glass on two sides so it can scan negatives but it also has like a flatbed so it only is lighting the one side you know I don't know it's basically to me it's a way to make anything that is in real life digital like you literally just put it on there you press scan and then it's on your computer so huh ok I see what you mean now that's kind of the way I look at it it's really cool I was thinking different like do you ever look at like old raygun magazines I'm not sure what you're talking about I'll send this to you this magazine that was like the design magazine in the early 90s and all of their work though was like getting glitches from overly Xeroxing and scanning things fucking badly it's fucking awesome it's some of my favorite design of all time I'll send you some things but if you do some googling it's incredible stuff that I think like so few people look at and take from anyway back to your tools flatbed scanner is huge I love that I would invest in a Apple product computer of sorts it doesn't have to be an iMac the MacBook Pros now are pretty sick $1900 for a fully loaded MacBook Pro that's literally two times faster than any computer they made two years ago right if you're just getting started if I pick one thing to buy it'd be the newest MacBook Pro just yeah it's really dope strong agree unless you want a big monitor and then buy the Mac mini I really firmly believe that like creativity working in a Apple based system is like light years more productive and creative that's just me but I just think that the interface is very friendly to the creative brain so learning I guess my fourth tool would be Adobe like get Adobe and just start learning Photoshop learning premiere those it's kind of a ridiculously expensive monthly fee it's like $60 something I hate it but I don't even think about it anymore because I literally use it for like 10 hours every single day of my life so yeah that's what everybody says to me about all my pro tools and plug in subscriptions exactly I'm like this is what I do to be creative I don't know it's just thing I have to do right it is what it is yeah I mean hard drive storage deal with that too but that's something you can get into once you find yourself having more than two terabytes worth of shit to put somewhere yeah I don't know a camera scanner a good computer and Pinterest just start really tell me about that Pinterest is like the coolest tool for like finding ideas it's what should be you're the only person I've ever heard talk about Pinterest who's not a 40 year old mob creating their house so I want you to tell me because I trust that if you're saying this it's got to be good so explain to me what you're using Pinterest for just idea finding like it's the most intuitive social media I've ever found it's what Instagram should be in my opinion like once it takes a little bit for it to like start understanding what you like and what you look for but once you get in there and you like start making a couple I don't know what words mood boards or whatever and it starts to like learn what you gravitate towards it's just insane like how far down a rabbit hole of like creativity you could go just by looking at inspiration images there's never ever been a project where like I have not had an idea right off the bat for something and then I go on Pinterest and within like 10 minutes I immediately have like 10 ideas yeah I just think it's like the most helpful tool to like finding ideas and like hashing out how something could look in your head that's really interesting so now I'm going to have to go down this road just like I had to be a 40 year old man and learn tiktok recently so I'm I refuse to do that you know I did and now I'm like because I found like all like political and cooking things and now I'm like oh this is great for 5 minutes a night so this was an observation your music always sounds analog manipulated and sound you have very good color and it is what I'd like to say like very nice analog color and then as well you get these really analog tones but you're talking so much about how much time you spend on the computer interesting talk to me about the dichotomy totally I mean I I'm definitely heavily if not mostly inspired by the analog vintage shit 50s all the way to the 90s things that look real methods that are real I love everything that is real but the reality is we live in a digital world and that's what the jobs are and I think what drives my creative brain the most is like you see an idea in real life here and then it has to come all the way over here to be digital how do you do that like the flatbed scanner is a great example of that like using that to create paper textures that you then lay in Photoshop or using your digital camera to take a picture of something that is old and decrepit in real life that then becomes something in Photoshop like that's why I think getting Adobe right off the bat and understanding how those programs work so that when you have all the channels of like this what I'll do then this what I'll do then this what I'll do so that could become that basically yeah I just I like the transition is what interests figuring out like for example I just made a font for the first time last night that's awesome thank you it was really fun basically it's for Marible the new record I wanted to create like a custom font for it like a stencil of every letter capital lowercase blah blah blah and hand paint it onto like a canvas and then we scan the canvas into the computer on the flatbed and I cut out all the background and then like through a bunch of weaving like inputted it into a font generator and like created a typeface out of it so like that's a great example of like we want it to look like it's hand painted lettering on whatever side so that's that right there I mean it was it took a lot but it worked yeah and then you have that for your entire campaign and your creative pursuits and that's fucking awesome thanks yeah that's the idea well I really look forward to seeing all this stuff why don't you wrap up you tell everybody where they can find you and do a little self-promotion of some things that they can look for you on and all that fun stuff that all of us Benjamin M. Lieber my website is firstandlastname.net and I don't know what else is there Marigold is my music project MarigoldNY and it's on Spotify so that's it and all of that will be linked below in the description of both this podcast and video so Ben thank you so much for doing this it was so fun chatting yeah thank you for having me thanks so much for watching if you enjoyed this podcast if you're about to come up on the end screen or you can click a link in the description below to see more like it as well if you want to hear more like this in your favorite podcast app just search noise creators and all of my podcasts are in that feed there as well if you're a musician who's trying to go from 0 to 10,000 fans I have a playlist linked below or on the screen in a second that's all about how you do just that where I have tons and tons of videos on how you grow your fan base so please click that subscribe button and get notified to all my videos and stay tuned for even more content just like this thanks so much for watching