 Good evening and welcome. I'm Diane Meyerhoff host for tonight's candidate forum for Chittenden County State Senate Today's show is being aired live on channel 17 and streamed live on the channel 17 website We welcome your comments and questions. Please join the conversation at 8 6 2 3 9 6 6 The Chittenden County Senate delegation is made up of six candidates six seats as such We'll be talking to each candidate in three separate groups tonight right now joining me are Democratic incumbent Debbie Ingram Fair representation Vermont candidate Joshua Knox Democratic incumbent Jenny Lyons and Republican Paul Dain. Thank you all so much for joining us tonight. Thanks for having us Diane Of course the ground rules for tonight's forum is that the candidates will make opening statements of up to two minutes each Then they will answer prepared questions also for two minutes with a possible one minute rebuttal We'd like the candidates in their opening statements to talk about why they're running and the experience that they will bring to the position And we're gonna start with Debbie. Thank you very much. Yes. Thank you. Thanks to channel 17 for having these forums It's very important to help people understand who we are especially when there's so many of us, right? So my name is Debbie Ingram and I am a current state senator. I Serve on the health and welfare committee and on the education committee So those are issues that are of particular interest to me. I also bring Experience from the municipal realm I served on the Williston select board for six years and the Williston Planning Commission for five years and on the Chittenden County regional Planning Commission and In my day job I am the executive director of a nonprofit called Vermont interfaith action Which is a grassroots? Coalition of caring and inclusive congregations that work together to affect systemic change around issues of social justice So through that work, I have acquired quite a bit of knowledge in affordable housing and health care Transportation education criminal justice reform and economic dignity So with all of those different different hats I feel that I bring quite a lot of experience and knowledge to the state Senate and I also Had the opportunity to really listen to everyday vermonitors on the ground at the grassroots And I think that's something that is very important I've always had a heart for justice and a lot of compassion for for people and what they go through and I Think that's a very important part of my role in the Senate. I'm there in my opinion. We're all there to To contribute to our communities but to make the lives of Vermonters better and that's what I'm trying to do Thank you. Joshua opening statement. Yes. Hi. I'm Joshua Knox, of course running for a Chittenden Senate First of all, I'd like to thank the other candidates for being here. This is a great Excuse me great forum for democracy. We like that forum for democracy. Yes I'd like to thank my wife Melanie and my son Everett for letting me upend our family schedule again running around the county Here we are again So I'm running to bring more voices to the state legislature in my day job I am a teacher at Mount Mansfield Union High School in the Chittenden East district I have been on the Essex Planning Commission now for about five years and between those two things well I'll talk about being a teacher first If you're a teacher for any amount of time what you become is sort of a sounding board you become a willing ear You become almost a confessional And so there's a lot of stories and voices that I hear on a on a regular basis that I don't necessarily here reflected in our politics and We often say in education that every social issue comes through our door first and they all come in together And so when I think of the issues we're going to talk about when I talk about Opioids or affordable housing or how to make Vermont a better state I I don't think of statistics. I don't think of anecdotes. I think of faces of students and friends And neighbors and it's about it's about stories for me and weaving those stories into a narrative about who we are as a state Who we can be For this generation and generations to come. Thank you Great. Thank you. Ginny opening statement. Thank you. Thank you. Diane and thanks to channel 17 This is a terrific opportunity for not only for us sitting at the table, but also for the folks out in the in the audience And we greatly appreciate being able to share with our constituents I am in the senate now and I look forward to being back in the senate in january and I would ask for your vote I'll do that up front You know my experience it came from Being on my school board and then serving for nearly 10 years as chair of the williston select board When we went through some very difficult times that divided the town around Development and I think most people are familiar with the williston Taft corners area That was such a difficult time not not not just for me But for everyone in town and it took a lot of energy on my part to bring people together It when you're sitting on a select board, you're not sitting as a democrat or a republican or progressive or an independent You're sitting as a citizen trying to bring the make the community a healthy environment So that's part of my experience another part of my experience, of course has been in the senate And I look forward to talking more about that as we go through the program Also have Served As a professor of biology at trinity college in burlington for over 27 years And got to know not just burlington, but also the issues that are intrinsic to Biology and the environment all of the social issues that we face today, whether it's addiction Whether all of our public health issues Are really embedded in our environmental ethic and in our interest in in science and natural resources So I bring a lot of experience From my background working with those in the social sciences as well as those in the natural sciences To In a very practical way To the senate and I look forward to going back and representing The citizens who I listen to year round Through email or meetings and thank you. So it's good to be here. Thank you jenny paul opening statement Thanks So the two things, you know, who am I and and what do I hope to accomplish? So my name is paul dame I grew up on a dairy farm down in brandon vermont And came up to the burlington area when I enrolled at uvm And I had the awesome privilege to live and work downtown In burlington for about nine years And so I know what it's like to to live downtown work downtown It was great using my car once or twice a week when I had to get groceries And being able to walk to work And so I realized how important it is to have a walkable city in burlington Then once I got married my wife and I moved out to esics junction where we live for eight years All three of our kids were born while we were out there So I also understand kind of the outside of the burlington area In chitening county the suburban areas like esics williston south burlington So I understand those areas as well One of the reasons that I'm running is I own my own financial services practice And and I've seen unfortunately a lot of my clients who are getting to retirement Looking at the the cost of living on a fixed income And some people can't do it anymore And and I want to continue to serve people here in vermont I want people that love vermont to be able to stay here If they like the warm weather that's fine But but that's not the only reason And so I want to make sure that we keep vermont a place that folks can stay in I served while I was in esics. I served in the house representatives there And served on the human services committee. So the jenny's counterpart there in the house And dealt with a couple of one of the main issues that I want to focus on which is the opioid epidemic It's one of those areas that I know that if we can Be intelligent be smart be careful and compassionate about It's an area that we can see a lot of progress in in other areas The second issue which is also related to that is creating more opportunity economic opportunities for vermonters We need to maintain vermont's Ability to be a great place to live work and play And make sure that the employers that around here that Give us all an ability to put food on the table and enjoy the recreation in vermont that those employers stay here and expand And so those are the two key reasons i'm i'm running to kind of get promoted from the house to the senate with your help Great. Thank you very much. Let's talk about the economy According to forbes magazine vermont's economic outlook is projected to be the second worst in the united states of the next five years While income growth is also expected to lag behind Do you agree with this assessment? And what is your plan of action to strengthen vermont's economic outlook and we are going to start with joshua I i do agree with that and i've Since i announced i was running i've gotten a lot of emails Facebook messages twitter whatever from former students who would have loved to stay in vermont But we're unable to and so i entirely agree with that i think One of the traps we sort of get into in vermont Is and both parties do this but They tend to try to play catch up with bigger states And what i mean by that is is about offering a better deal for businesses to come here And my view is that we can always be Undercut if you will in the race to the bottom vermont's going to lose it's a small state It's a brave little state, but it's a small state and so there's that difficulty so my My approach is sort of be too pronged One would be to make it easier for people to stay here on the the labor side of things and i hope what we talk about are things like Affordable child care early childhood Education making those things affordable for working vermonters because you need a workforce that's willing to put down routes here People that are willing to put down routes here. That's one side of it The other side and i think we'll probably talk about it as well as the entrepreneurial culture We're not like i said going to attract large businesses necessarily of of the old type I don't think that's necessarily what vermont strength is going to be But i think our strength is a local entrepreneurial culture from which we can build Up and you see that in sort of our agricultural products like i'm a A fan of the sort of cider boom revolution we have going on things like that that's going to be the vermont future some Small niche thing that vermont does well and that's what we need to support Okay, great. We're talking about strengthening vermont's economy jinny Thank you First i i don't know which which article from forbs did this prediction come from i know it's fairly recent Pretty recent someone did look it up Okay, but it's a crystal ball about the future and sort of i don't know how predictive is based on the work that we've done recently so You know i I think that vermont is a little more resilient Than saying that we're we're going to fail over the next five years and we're going to be second lowest Uh, maybe we will but i'm not willing to give in to that thinking I think that we have a lot of challenges. There's no doubt about it Um, I I do think that some of the comments we hear about keeping young people in the state are pretty Pretty right on But on the other hand, we've seen a remarkable growth in our solar industry Not just in putting the panels up and having the workforce to do that But also in the production of solar product as well as other energy products. We have wonderful biotech Companies including one right across the bridge here in winooski. So And we have maker hubs beginning across the the state. We know that we have Telecommunications that is lagging but we're focusing that telecom in specific areas so that we can build that Um telecom telecom industry in a way that is vermont specific small business specific We've we've invested in our working landscapes through the enterprise board We're diversifying agriculture. We have wonderful small businesses that are selling butter to restaurants in new york and beef to new york That to high-end restaurants So, uh vermont The label vermont is valuable in and of itself. I'm not willing to give up on vermont over the next five years So you can see that i'm very high on our state But I I I do think that the challenges that we face in terms of child care in our past budget We added um, we increased the earned income tax credit for folks with kids So that it would be now 36 percent of federal level instead of 32 percent So people will have some benefit to invest in their in their young kids and growing Okay, I mean we could go on but I you know, I think that we're a little more resilient than um Saying what the article has said and I'd love to see the article and see what it's based on Okay, great. I'm finally paul. Yeah, I uh, I'd say I agree with that jenny that I do believe vermont is Is a robust or a billion resilient place Where kind of yankee can do bootstrapers up here But that doesn't mean that there aren't barriers that can be frustrating for vermonters I think you know four things off the top of my head that I think can improve the business climate and therefore the economy is Looking at addressing the cost of electricity I just had somebody come to look at our house and uh looking for solar panels And they told me that vermont is the the fifth most expensive utility rates in the country It's hard to attract business here with with a number like that So we've got to make sure that we're looking at policies that are producing Uh, in a competitive environment where we can get our utility rates across the board Whether you're a big company like global foundries in my hometown in s-extinction or your Entrepreneur and you're in a maker space and it's just you and your laptop He's you got to have power in the information economy. We've got to have that the second issue is is permitting I think we have a very complex problem We've got a big hole in the middle of downtown berlington Because of issues related to to permitting process and investors don't understand what the process looks like How do we move forward? When can we move forward? It's just it's too complicated and in my backyard again in s-ext you've got other circumvential highway. I mean That you know, you have a problem when the state starts building a road that it doesn't know that it can't finish The permitting process is too complicated. Second thing. We third thing we need to do is make sure we're increasing wages for vermoners It's really easy to say. Hey, we're going to try to raise the minimum wage But that only helps the people at the bottom. I think if we can make vermont a place. That's a more robust Vibrant economy we can Create more opportunities where companies are competing for wages That's going to bring wages up for everybody low middle and upper class and the fourth thing is is personal experience is helping sole proprietors move from zero employees to one If we can do that simple thing help every sole proprietor who's working just by themselves whether you're a plumber Electrician you don't have somebody to manage your schedule do your books Being able to go from zero employees to one Can make a huge impact in those services becoming available to a greater group of vermonters And providing jobs and helping that individual focus on what they're good at I know for me it was a big step when I hired my first employee Earlier this year probably something I should have done a year and a half ago But there was a big concern about all the regulations and restrictions that would be on me when it went from zero employees to one I think we've got to make that a smoother transition For sole proprietors great. Thank you and debbie. We're talking about strengthening vermont's economy Yes, well, I did actually look up the the Forbes article Well, it was somewhat surprising to me because Since the 2008 recession vermont has had the second fastest growing economy in new england, so I'm not sure exactly how they arrived at at their figures, but But I do think there are things that we can do to Both to address both parts of what you mentioned, which is to make a better business climate but also to address the stagnant wages In terms of helping our businesses our small businesses I think especially flourish because I agree that we're not a prime site for a large manufacturing companies But when I talk to small business owners, I hear from them that They're kind of three things that they wish were improved in vermont one is It's very difficult for them to find skilled laborers And I think that's partly because vermont is actually dead last in The nation in spending on our community and state colleges And I think we should invest more money in in that to help our vermont vermont young people get the skills that they need for the for good jobs Secondly, our housing is so expensive. It makes it difficult for businesses to recruit and retain workers When people are paying more than 30 percent or more even sometimes more than 50 percent on their housing. They don't have This isn't a good place for them to live So we need to work on that more And then thirdly our infrastructure broadly defined needs to be improved I think we we're making some strides, but we need to continue to look at the energy sector our utilities Our telecommunications, especially to our rural areas And our and our roads and then on the other side of the equation looking at our wages They have indeed stagnated, which makes it very very difficult for our economy to grow And that's why the majority party supported and passed Raising a minimum the minimum wage gradually over several years but to get to $15 an hour And you know it's very unfortunate that the governor vetoed that I think that's That's definitely a measure that we need to use to help vermonters and help our economy. Okay. Thank you Let's us turn over to health care How do we limit health care spending in vermont while also remaining one of the healthiest states in the nation? And jenny you're going to start us off. Okay. Thank you You know as as vice chair of the health and welfare committee I've been working very hard on this issue also a member of the finance committee So it's a challenge actually to look at how do you contain costs at the same time improving quality? But we know that we've made great strides Not the least of which and there's some controversy about this, of course, but having the accountable care organization through in our in our area through our medical center the uvm medical center And knowing that now the medical center is not only taking care acute care Uh for people who are in the hospital Well, we're also seeing an extension of care So when people leave and they have to go home, there's a place for them So our visiting nurse association has become very much involved our choices for care program Where people are can stay at home or go to go home and receive care early So that increased quality of care and at the same time a shorter stay in the hospital that just does save money So though and the sash program of course which is uh really important and especially Again for those who are in our affordable housing environment Um, but I I do think that so many things that we've done like telehealth Where folks are monitored for their health off-site Or telemedicine where people actually can access a physician's office off-site So the physician is sitting in in his office and the patient is in another uh far Far away getting care and that saves travel time and it does overall save money The most one of the more significant things that we've done in this state Is something called the blueprint for health Which looks at which is a chronic care initiative and has built I think for vermont a real opportunity around primary care So as we build primary care and preventive care for every single age group Then we're saving money on those chronic Conditions that might emerge later on including heart disease or diabetes So this is this is exciting. It's a national nationally recognized Program that we have developed and I think is going to allow for us to expand into primary care We're working on things like prescription drug cost containment We passed a bill this year on drug importation from canada Where uh, we can lower cost. So there are a lot of things I will stop For all health care spending. Yeah, uh, I think you know So often it's easy to get lost and in addressing Insurance and coverage issues and what we really need to be focusing on is addressing the the costs of of the care The cost of delivery We talk about different payment models and all we're doing is kind of playing a shell game And pass the buck if if the cost of going to the doctor if the cost of the treatment at the er goes up It doesn't matter who's paying for it. We're all going to be paying more So I think we need to make sure that that we do the things that have have proven to to bring prices down That's uh present patients with more choice Allow them to have Greater choices in terms of how they they manage their primary care whether they do it under a regular fee for service model That's great if they want to be part of like a concierge service if that's appropriate for them and their particular health needs Allowing them to to do that Also allowing folks to figure out what kind of insurance makes sense for them Unfortunately, Vermont is the only state in the country that makes it illegal to buy health insurance outside the exchange Why are we limiting people's choices? Yeah, the the exchange have a good robust plan But some people don't want that some people want uh something that that addresses just what they need And and I think we need to give patients those those choices We need to get uh, you know government and insurance companies in one degree Out from in between the patient and their position You know, I think another thing that that was a concern that was mentioned at the community of elder vermoners That we went to on friday was they have some real concerns about the aco model And uh, we've got one of the best parts of of health care in government is vermon's Choices for care model that addresses long-term care needs For vermoners that's something that's working well that people are happy with that program It's reducing cost and more importantly than reducing cost It's helping vermoners get the treatment in the setting that they want and that they're comfortable with And the folks who like that program are happy with that program are very concerned about the changes that could come with that It's one of the problems of kind of doing a throwing the baby out with the bath water and trying to remake the system Top down is that we have parts that are working well, especially for elderly vermoners We've got to make sure that we maintain that for them. So I think it's it's basically providing more choices For for patients and and make sure we understand what we're doing well and keep doing it well Okay, thank you debbie health care spending. I appreciate mr. Dane being such a good Proponent for a particular point of view and I would say that I'm probably 180 degrees from from what he just articulated I think that um, the the aco's are our best hope for Working towards a system that um, that is is based on health care as a public good Which looks at it in more of a universal way Long-term and ultimately at the national level. I am a strong supporter of Of a single payer kind of system bernie's medicare for all And I think we should do as much as we can in vermont to to move towards that and the the good thing about the aco's is that they move us from a fee-for-service system into a A payment per per person in a in a regional area And they encourage Doctors to physicians health care providers of all kinds to work together to provide coordinated care and to keep The people in their region healthy And not spend unnecessarily on things that that you know that are not needed so Um, so I I think that they are going to lead to uh greater savings Um, I am also proud on the health and welfare committee that I serve on and that center line serves on we We move forward a universal primary care Um a system, uh, we're we're trying to move vermont closer to that Because uh in in areas where they spend, uh states or countries where Of 20% Approximately of the general health care spending is spent on primary care Um, there is there's greater long-term savings and people are healthier. You have much better outcomes right now in vermont We only spend about six or six to seven percent of our total spending on primary care So the more we move towards uh towards that preventive care The healthier our population will be and the lower our costs will be okay great joshua health care spending Yes, I would absolutely agree with the idea that primary care and preventive should be The of the objective I agree with that I I would differ a little bit In how we get to a larger health care system like a universal care a medicare for all if you will I think it's um christine hall quest has sort of an interesting idea if i'm attributing it correctly To partner with other other states And I the reason I like that a great deal is if you look in what canada did in building up their their system It came from the provinces first And as I said earlier vermont is a small state and we're one of the oldest states and we've got a low birth rate And so so long as we do have a a private insurance market that exists And those are the economic incentives the size of our pool will be very determinative of of what we can do And I I like the approach of of so-called romney care in massachusetts and I'd like to see something about Getting vermont in on romney care if you will And that that would increase the size of the pool and that would allow us more flexibility and then Perhaps new hampshire wants on board perhaps main gets on board and we we build up at a regional level And I don't know how that would how that would work How long that would take but the idea is to increase the the pool and the interim focus on preventive and primary care Okay, thank you. Um, we're going to switch to a couple of questions that came in in advance of our forum Now that marijuana is legal. Do you support taxing taxing and regulating it and we are going to start with paul Yeah, I I think now that it's legal for vermonters to to use marijuana It doesn't make sense to create to maintain a system where it's illegal to buy it from a source where the quantity I'm sorry the quality and the safety of the product is completely unknown Unfortunately, you know, it kind of leads us back to the early days of alcohol prohibition when people were, you know, getting sick off bathtub jen And I've talked to a number of folks Who have had experiences with people in their families who have You know gotten had some very adverse effects because the marijuana that they were using Was not just marijuana. So I think to me the big issue about moving towards illegalization Model needs to be to eliminate the black market Everything that was wrong with alcohol prohibition is still mostly maintained in in the current status for marijuana you have The only place to obtain it is through illegal means or very small percentage of people can can grow with themselves We're comfortable that so I think we need to move to a model where It's available commercially and like every other product that we offer on the market There's some very basic safety tests so that consumers are protected You know, I in the house I voted against a huge You know big government bill that required a $30,000 permit to be able to grow marijuana That's insane All we're doing is protecting large companies and my big concern with a model that looked like that Is we're going to have big tobacco come in and they're going to do the same thing with marijuana That's not going to help Vermont. It's not going to help for monitors I think if you're going to have a system that that's where marijuana is legally Available and commercially available. We've got a focus on making the the barrier entry appropriate and not so out of out of pace that Vermonters who are already engaged in other activities here I can can make it easy for them to add that to their their current model of services rather than larger companies coming in From out of state So I think it makes sense that to make it commercially available And I think it makes sense to apply the same tax that we might have either on regular sales tax or Be willing to look at you know, what the way that we tax cigarettes on on a on a weight measurement rather than a price measurement Because who knows what's going to happen with the price That's a big concern I have about like the rand study is we have no idea what prices are going to do Once it becomes commercially available, especially with what's going on in other states So so I think you know treating it a lot like like alcohol Or or tobacco or other controlled substances seems to make sense given where we are today Okay, we're talking about taxing and regulating marijuana debbie I uh to agree that we should have a regulated Industry I voted in favor of the senate bill that would regulate from seed to sale And I'm sorry that that didn't that wasn't what we actually were finally wound up with 80 000 vermonters. We've been told already use marijuana. It doesn't make any sense for us not to Regulate it to make sure that the quality is there that it's not laced with other substances And you know, frankly, it doesn't make any sense not to get the revenue From from that and I think it's important what we spend the revenue on I do have a concern about our young people I I know that you know, sometimes young people can Feel that if something's illegal then maybe they won't try it But as soon as it's legal well, then maybe it's a little more attractive to them So I think we need to make sure that we spend some of the revenue on education and prevention programs I think we also need to come up with some kind of field sobriety test for for marijuana But I do think it makes a lot of sense for us to to regulate it and to To move ahead with that. Okay Marijuana taxing and regulating joshua I would first like to say that teenagers do not seem to be deterred by its illegality in any other State So I'm I'm also in favor of a tax and and regulate Structure for all the reasons previously stated safety one thing I would want to be very clear to note is I don't want this to be sort of a fun source for anything outside of as you said prevention and education about drug abuse I don't if you'll pardon the pun I don't want the state to get addicted to this as revenue for something else because then we have this Perverse incentive structure where we need more people smoking I would be against that but taxing and regulating it and that's the next step. Yes, totally. Okay, jenny Thank you So we did pass the seed to sale bill a couple of years ago In the senate and it was then rejected by the house So we ended up with a current system of deregulating Or making legal lower levels of marijuana possession So the the issue is How much money does it raise and I know the tax department has said that it doesn't raise sufficient Funds to do everything that we would like it to do so would only pay for the administration of the program So we want to know that up front. We didn't have that information when we previously passed the bill The other issue is and I agree 100 percent that Prevention programs need to be in place and I believe they should be in place before the the Tax and regulate system goes into place. So there's a lag time And we need to get the money from somewhere. Perhaps it's the tobacco settlement funds that we've recently gotten There should be some more of that coming in But I I I agree with those who say that we have to be careful. We um a fund For that would come in from the taxation system for marijuana Needs to be protected so that it goes for prevention and it goes for those the the ag Agency to oversee the growth of the marijuana to make sure it's not contaminated Needs to be sure that it's labeled accurately and that access is Is prevented for underage folks age of 21 seems appropriate But even though the literature says age of 25 is better Uh for the use It's it's really unfortunate that this drug which is now a medicinal drug and carefully managed by our Our our medical our medical dispensaries This drug is seen as a schedule one drug at the federal level So it's seen as having absolutely no value and yet we know that there's value for medicinal purposes And we're seeing that people are using it And can use it without uh running into Either health or legal problems once they're older and use it moderately Um, I am concerned. I I did talk with someone the other day who was raised the issue that Um If we start a tax and regulation program, we are going to see the bigger businesses Targeting people who are open to addiction The same way that the ads for alcohol might target someone open to addiction So we need to do this carefully But I I think we did a good job with the bill a couple of years ago in the senate And I'd like to see that bill come back and reevaluated Great. Thank you. Um, we have another question that came out from the audience The trump administration as part of its efforts to dismantle the affordable care act aca is now allowing small employers to leave the small group marketplace through their associations There is broad agreement. This will lead to higher costs for those who are left in the individual slash small group insurance poll Some people believe this will put the stability of our health insurance marketplace at risk Do you share these concerns? Will you work to prevent this from taking place? And debbie we're gonna start with you. Okay. Thank you Well, yes, I think part of the dismantling of of obama care for real care act Is that you know removing the requirement the mandate that That everybody pay into it Has been a terrible detriment and has led to Even more rising costs You have to have if you view health care as a public good That everybody is going to need at some point in in their lives Then if we all pay into it, uh, it will make the the Payment structure more equitable overall and it will keep costs down and it it will keep the the premiums Reasonable Just really stands to reason. So I think that the trump administration has been sabotaging the affordable care act By making these changes and uh, yes, I will do everything I possibly can to To ensure that that we continue to view health care as a public good that every person deserves And that everybody needs to pay into because they're going to use it Even when they're younger and healthier at some point in their lives They're going to need it and use it and just as we require social security And medicare even younger people have to pay into it because they're going to use it on down the line That's the way we need to think of our health care plans as well Okay, so we're talking about um, health care spending through exchange versus association joshua I would actually Second what senator ingram said about the idea of people being able to leave the pool I mean that was my point earlier on if we have a smaller pool that leads to greater instability And again in a small state, that's not something we can we can well afford. So where I elected I I would seek to fight that move. Yes, jenny Thank you. So we did pass a bill last year. It was in senate finance That the department of financial regulation brought to us asking us to allow for These small association plans the question that we had at that point I was very concerned about These plans becoming outside of our ability to regulate and oversee So we were reassured that we can We can keep Keep people together The benefit is that many small businesses that are might have a difficult time helping Their employees now have a way to provide health care So one of the things that I would like to look at going forward is can we and will Will these plans also be able to access exchange plans? Will these plans provide for co-pays and deductibles that are not exorbitant? So there there are a lot of questions This is a new This is a new wrinkle and I think we're all concerned that it will lead to a disassembly of the affordable care act which it shouldn't Since the state can regulate and can oversee but I do share the concerns that senator ingram mentioned it initially will be We will be working on this but and we are we will be listening to our small businesses. I know that the vermont That vermont businesses are very supportive, but They may may not be supportive if all of a sudden people are going without or having to pay a high Co-pays and high deductibles Okay, we're talking about health care spending through exchange versus associations paul Yeah, I think I couldn't disagree more with my other three colleagues here There is no place that a one-size-fits-all model is more inappropriate than health care I mean the way that we interact with our physician and and what needs to happen in that arrangement Uh, it's a it's totally contrary to the thing that government does well is do one thing the same for everybody You build a road everybody uses the road. They need the same kind of road with health care. It's completely the opposite Everybody needs something different You know, I just was speaking with somebody earlier today who said that 20 percent of hospital budget is processing insurance claims Right, and the problem is that providers whether you're a hospital or a physician Your your hands are tied right because you have to take that kind of insurance Because the rot has gone from having a place where we had 10 or 15 insurance companies To two and really it's it's mostly one about 80 percent of the state or something like that uses blue cross blue shield So providers has have lost their ability To to truly be uh independent. I think we need to get to a place where we have more choices for people You know I think it's important not to think of these association plans as some Foreign newfangled thing that we don't really know anything about We had this in Vermont a couple years ago the chamber of commerce used to provide health insurance plans everybody That's the kind of thing that's talked that is an example of an association plan We used to have it Obamacare took it away took that choice away and it also really hurt a lot of our chambers of commerce around the state A lot of them used that the revenue from Those those premiums said to fund their uh to fund the chambers and provide economic development And I also just want to touch on a couple things as rebuttal from the last round to you know Folks are talking about a co again. This is kind of a A recycled model of the hmo's Another failed policy from from the 90s and when we talk about medicare for all we all have medicare I have medicare i'm paying for medicare right now and i won't get to use it for 30 years And even the people like my clients who are on medicare They're using it a lot of them need medicare supplement To make sure that they get their their coverage that that they need So the only reason medicare works is because we're taking people taking money from people like me for 30 years Taking that premium and never providing Benefits okay If any insurance company tried to do that in the state of Vermont take premium from somebody and deny every claim for 30 years We'd kick them out Okay, so the idea that that medicare for all is going to be a simple easy solution And everybody's going to get everything they want the numbers just don't just don't work for it Can I just say one thing about medicare? You're paying in for the future. That's what medicare is So if we had medicare from the time you're born Then we'd be paying in and be utilizing it The the the problem with that cost Well, i'm just saying do we want to do that you can answer that for yourself But i do believe that medicare is an extremely valuable program The problem is we haven't funded it sufficiently over time And we should be increasing the funding for that rather than every year The social security goes up minimally or not at all and medicare goes up even more I know it's predicted to go up another couple hundred dollars next year or a hundred and something next year So yes and people do need supplements Why do they need supplements because it's not sufficient and we need to make sure that it is sufficient That's a federal level issue on the association Virginia if the feds can't do it what makes you think that the state of vermont The feds can't do it be right right now we have a roadblock in in washington dc And we should be having a conversation rather than an argument So it's if you can talk about how can we get to where we need to be with health care? I would say I ask our congressional delegation to do that and others from other states Okay, I'm going to stop you there just to give other folks a chance joshua and then Excuse me. I'm sorry. Go ahead I was I was going to ask you if we have these smaller plans doesn't that introduce more instability In pricing isn't that precisely the point? We want we want larger pools to have stability In the pricing for everybody and be able to contain costs better It doesn't seem to make sense to me to make smaller and smaller fragmented pools unless I'm misunderstanding you Well, what happens is if you have one big pool and there's a problem with that pool Everyone suffers Right. I mean, that's one of the problems that we have with our Medicaid system is we have one big pool But when there there's cost, you know utilization costs are high It gets moved around and the only thing that the state is able to do is keep rates low That's why providers are getting paid about 42 cents on the dollar If we didn't have the private insurance market that we have A lot of physicians wouldn't be able to make it. They certainly can't maintain their their practice on Medicaid rates And even on Medicare rates, it's it's a tough cost. They they need Insurance companies there that are paying those higher rates to keep them sustainable The problem is that these physicians have a huge chunk of what they need to charge is going to processing the claims Because if they don't take blue cross, they have no patience A few years ago when we had places like golden rule a lot of people a lot of my clients remember that We had a multiple number of policies. So physicians weren't Bound to the insurance companies. They were able to to narrow what the what they were going to offer And to give patients and the physicians more choice Debbie do you want to jump in I would like to Every other developed country in the world has some kind of system That that is It pulls people's resources and provides health care for them And they have they spend less money and they have better outcomes I look at healthcare in the same way that I look at our fire departments our police departments our libraries our roads There's certain things that that really don't fit the capitalist model of having lots of choices And letting consumers and the free market decide things There are certain things like and I would put healthcare in that same category With the fire department the police department where we're better off when we all pull our resources and create a more equitable system We spent there's so much money already in the system In vermont alone we spend four billion dollars a year on our on our healthcare It's a matter of moving from premiums that are set by You know commercial companies That are that that vary greatly depending on a lot of different factors to having A system in which we can make make it more equitable And we can actually reduce the the costs and provide better care But we've been on that track for over 10 years and costs keep going up But we haven't got we haven't gotten to the the point that we're trying to get to where we still have Whatever whatever A comment if I could You know, we're starting to move on to a conversation about all payer and how we pay per patient per month And that system right now is in the state of vermont is in its second year of And we're looking at how will all payer work if you pay a physician or practitioner For each patient per month then the patient That access is a lot of care It gets a lot of that that money is used up and the patients who don't get a lot of care that money May be left over and at the end of the year there's a balance more profitable not to treat me I'm saying it may be more profitable not to treat people But that doesn't mean that quality goes down and that is where oversight is so critical That's what our agency of human services and the university of vermont medical center is doing right now They're working together to decide is this a good way to care for patients particularly those In in primary care and then moving forward into other I'm gonna stop I know this we can have another hour on this and I I'm I'm all over it But I do want to make sure that the folks who who submitted questions get them answered and we're almost out of time Believe it or not So I want to ask you all what your opinion is on on the explain the asterisk legislation campaign Do you think college students that are dismissed for sexual misconduct should be able to transfer to schools with no notation on their transcript as to why they were dismissed And Looks like joshua. You're gonna start us off I think With respect to that there should be some notation if there was again Not just on the suspicion thereof, but if there was an actual provable provable juridical Something like that then yes, it should pass along absolutely Okay, jenny now you're all gonna be really short and then there's a lot of time and this always happens to me Everyone's gonna say yes. No. Yes Yeah, the person who was interested in this legislation actually contacted me and I said as long as some Uh incident that's been demonstrated to be true. Yes, absolutely. Okay, uh paul Yeah, I guess uh, I'm not as familiar with this uh issue But uh, I'm just wondering if if there's a case of sexual assault it seems like that's that's a crime Those those people should be in the criminal justice system But if for some reason they're they're not I think as long as there's due process and there is actual findings of of guilt Any conduct whether it's sexual misconduct Whether it's physical violence anything that a student does that makes them a danger to other students ought to be mentioned When that the one that university is accepting that student, um, it feels like that's um, uh, You know that should be information that the university has that they're disposed to decide Whether they they want to accept that student again as long as it's been demonstrated that that there's actual Uh, there's an actual misconduct daddy Well in principle, yeah, I I agree with with everyone else that that um, we should you know, I think we're all aware I'm much more sensitive because what's been going on in the country Of making sure that survivors of any kind of sexual harassment or assault are taken seriously and that The perpetrators of these kinds of things are held accountable But it you know in setting up a system like that we need to be careful also that we don't um, you know label people who May not have in fact done anything. I mean things need to be verified And they do need to be explained and we also you know, I very strongly believe in giving people second chances and if If people can learn from their mistakes and their their misconduct And can make changes then I we want to not always not label them in perpetuity But you know give them a chance to to learn and to and to grow and be different in the future So we had agreement on that one All right Good. Um, so I think what we'll do is we're going to go into closing statements. Believe it or not We've we've I know it went really fast. It always does. Okay. Um, and so two minutes Closing statements. Jen you want you start us off. Oh, thank you. Thanks again, uh for allowing us to be here together You've heard a lot of interesting comments tonight from folks One of the things that I value about the senate is that we do tend to work together We work in committees and we listen to one another And we listen to others, uh consistently our Our perspective changes a bit when we look at some of the information that comes to us and that's a good thing And one of the things that I enjoy doing is staying in touch with my constituents I hear from constituents summer winter fall and spring And I thank you all for that. I I appreciate the comments and I appreciate the information that I receive from you It is an unusual for a constituent to Send me an idea that becomes a really important bill for example You know this year we'll be working. I hope that we'll be working on an equal inclusive equal rights amendment Very concerned about some of the issues that are going on in our state with respect to Our minority population I'm also very concerned about what's happening at the federal level So I look forward to representing everyone in the senate and uh, thank you very much Great. Thank you paul. Thanks I have to say I've been doing a these debates for a few years now when I was a candidate for the house in Essex And this is the most fun debate that I've been a part of because I feel like we really had a robust discussion about the issues And uh, and if if you vote for me for the senate, that's what you'll continue to get I I hear a lot of information that that is good and helpful and earlier today We did a press conference on criminal justice reform measures that I think can make verman a safer and a place And and yet can also provide redemption for for folks who Demonstrate their ability to reintegrate with the community. So I just want to go back to that idea that Um My two focuses really are helping to increase the boost the economy Creating a focus on entrepreneurs and helping sole proprietors get from that zero to one Employee helping them bridge that gap And then the second thing we unfortunately didn't get to talk about uh is is a opioid The opioid crisis and meeting that head on and addressing that in a way that that's understanding That uh That we we have to help folks and and the focus that we put on that issue is going to yield us results in other places as well So if you're uh, if you're looking as many people are to to keep young people here In vermont, if you want to keep businesses here in vermont, uh, then then I hope you'll vote for me paul dame Who's a young president of the vermont young professionals and uh and a business owner? My experience in living in burlington living in the outside burlington area Helps helps to make me a senator for all of chitlin county Thank you debbie closing statements Great. Thank you. Um, well, I'd like to ask the folks who are watching to vote for me on november 6th or to go early and vote I would appreciate you're returning me to um to montpelier If I get the chance to go back my top priorities will be um Again passing legislation to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour over a gradual period of time To help our vermont workers and also passing paid family leave, which I also think will help Vermonters we have too many vermont families who where both Both adults are working two or three jobs just to make ends meet and to me that is that is Just wrong and we need to do something about it So those would be my top priorities. I've also spent a lot of time working on systemic racism. I was the The sole sponsor actually of the systemic racism mitigation board That that we did Finally get there was a there was a few hurdles there with the governor, but it has been passed and is in place now And I also would like to introduce An amendment to the constitution to remove all reference to of slavery in the constitution And as senator lion said work with my colleagues to do a lot of other things to improve the lives of vermonters And that's that's the reason that I run and that's the reason that I'd like to to return again Thank you joshua closing statements. Yes Good night, everybody. It was nice to talk with you. Um, I am like paul upset We didn't get to a lot of particular things my particular Agenda you'll see it if you go to my facebook page It's it's no wasted vote that talks about how we can make every vote count And that ties into things like systemic racism again Unfortunately, we didn't have time to get into the the depth and complexity of that issue It really means a lot to me and we also didn't get to talk about Education as as a teacher that would have been a very welcome conversation Likewise as a someone of the ethics planning commission issues of planning and how they relate to affordable housing But again, um, those are all on the the webpage and I look forward to your vote on november 6th. Thank you Great. Thank you. And thank you all so much for coming out tonight. We really appreciate it Thank you We want to let everybody know of course they can vote now early at town city hall Which I used to always forget to say but that's really important. I know Or to vote on election day, which is tuesday november 6th And of course stay tuned to channel 17 for our more continuing election coverage. Thank you and good night