 What is up everybody welcome welcome welcome we are here for classic cast number 10 number 10 already We're here with tips out. We're here with stay safe TV. We are so and today's gonna be a little bit different classic cast actually It's gonna be a little bit different a little bit more Speculatory on the free the future of wow as a whole with the implementation of the recent 8.0 patch and how it relates to classic It's no secret that they're harkening back to the origins of wow Oranges of Warcraft really I should say with the story of battle for Azeroth and taking it back to orcs versus humans horde versus Alliance We're really starting to see some of that not just in the story But in the design of the game as well and how we want to look at that and how it relates to classic like I said Tips you had some thoughts on that. Do you want to go ahead and start us off? Absolutely first and foremost. Good morning everybody. Good evening depending on where you are in the world But I'm sure a lot of you guys have noticed as well as my co-hosts here that there's been a number of Systematic changes that have happened in BFA that are actually taking the game Backwards or seemingly backwards and kind of have more of a vanilla vibe associated with them So things like you know just to mention a few off the bat things like buffs being reintroduced into the game Things like the global cool down changes All sorts of different changes to the game on a mechanical level that have made the game seem more vanilla ask than I guess Versus modern wow and I think it's very interesting and we want to talk to you guys today about all of these different changes And how we feel they're going to affect the game as well as the possibility of changes like this continuing in the future as well Yeah, I mean the first thing that comes to mind when I when we're talking about these these sort of throwbacks to the past Is the way the game is being presented to us how they're advertising how they're marketing it the story of BFA and like Everything we assume a BFA. I mean if you look at the box art to the log and screen it screams It screams warcraft I mean the box art is you have this orc staring down this human like glaring medicine in each other This is a throwback to the box art of Warcraft 1 and Warcraft 2 the old RTS games. There are people that probably don't know what RTS is That's kind of an old dead genre anyway But yeah, these original Warcraft games and then like the story of course is like very heavily You know horde versus alliance centric So I think they are definitely from marketing and story and advertisement. They're definitely doing a throwback to that Yeah, for sure. I mean even like from the moment you log in the new log and screen for BFA I didn't even think of I didn't think of Wow, I thought of Warcraft right like I even even more so than dark portal. I see the dark portal I think wow whenever I saw it, you know, you see the helmet you see the sword like it just look like it looked like Warcraft to me so Like we said from a marketing standpoint from a storytelling standpoint We get the vibe. I mean we had the recent classic announcement recent relatively and It all seems to be like for the first time ever they're they're kind of trying to turn it around And they're trying to kind of go back to its origins to its roots Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I don't take that stuff It's funny that you mentioned the marketing real quick. I just remembered this. Did you guys see those four commercials that just came out? Yes. Yeah, I watched them all So there's been four BFA related commercials like advertising commercials that have come out They're actually available on the Warcraft YouTube channel but all of those commercials are literally just horde versus alliance and Going hand in hand with what you guys were saying it all harkens back to the original game. I think that's really interesting for sure and The thing the big thing for for me and for us. We've all talked about this already. We've talked about this before We're noticing that It's easy to try and sell something. Okay, it's easy to try and sell something and say like oh look, you know, we're taking it back We're going back to this Myself and probably a lot of you guys as well felt this way about Warlords of Draenor where it's like it was kind of marketed this way It was kind of marketed to where like oh, we're going back and all this stuff We're going back to Draenor we're going back in time and then we all frickin got jubated super hard and that That was that So the different thing here for for the BFA at least in the 8.0 pre-patch that we're noticing is And this is how I feel for the first time in years in Warcraft in World of Warcraft I'm having to make decisions whenever it comes to gearing whenever it comes to choosing my talents whenever it comes to pretty much anything in combat and At least for my entire experience of playing Legion in the capacity that I played it Everything was super streamlined the first time I logged in I knew how to get I knew all the talents to pick right away Because they just made sense like oh just do this is what you pick at least for Paladins So that's not really the case and every day it's like people like oh, I think this talent is better I think that town's better And it's a lot of the same discussions and a lot of the same feelings that I get and I know other people get Whenever we play vanilla wow whenever we have classic wow we have the old talent trees So it's it's not the same as the old talent trees But it's kind of in the same in the same breath in terms of having to make choices and decisions and There's there's more give and take there instead of just like oh well clearly you take this And that's something I'm really really excited about Yeah, absolutely. I think it's like you said it's the first time In my memory. I mean I've been playing the game since vanilla I cannot remember any time since vanilla where blizzard has actively made changes to the game That are more like vanilla than like the modern direction they're taking and It's more than just one or two. We have about 10 changes listed here beyond the meta stuff that we already talked about the first of which being the return of buffs and I know I know stay safe, you know a lot about buffs and vanilla you played a warlock a lot of buffs debuffs So so can you kind of describe for the audience? I guess how buffs worked in vanilla? Yeah, I mean just about every class just about every class and actually Some specs have different buffs also in vanilla. Wow You had like, you know before you would engage a raid fight and we haven't seen this I think they took them out right before wad, right? So we haven't seen them in wad or in legion and now they're bringing them back for bfa every class is going to have It's own unique class buff. Um, there was a moment of of It was really cool like before you would uh, you're getting ready to go fight this raid boss Or you're uh, you're getting ready to uh for the battleground to start and you're pre-made You had this moment of like, okay, everyone do your buffs We're gonna sort of power up and you see the symbols popping up above people's head and I was like, all right Okay, we're buffed up now. We're ready to go and it hasn't been in the game That hasn't been in the game for the last four or five years and they're finally bringing it back And I think that that I don't know like for me that feels like a very satisfying ritual like, okay Get ready and now we're ready and let's go and let's go fight well I was gonna say like, I mean you even look at it It used to be a core principle of the game to the point where you guys look at the old south park episode Where they're going to go fight the guy and it's like, okay, like pop your like arcane elixir No arcane intellect as he says like hey, you're arcane intellect They're telling them to do all their stuff and it's funny because it's like yeah, it's a joke But at the same time like that's that's what you did in classic and uh, like tipp said this is the first time This is the first time that you know, as far as any of us at least can remember that they're Trying to take the they're trying to take the ship and steer it back Like wait a second. Maybe Maybe this isn't right. Maybe maybe we need to do a little bit more of this. Maybe maybe used to be better the other way I don't know that's something that's something to me that is very uh It's it's exciting to see But at the same time, uh We have to kind of wait and see and to see if they follow through with that as well I definitely hope they do especially in context of the buffs like The feeling of powering up like literally going super saying, you know before like a raid or before a bg It's incredibly satisfying and like beyond that It just made every class feel like it was contributing to a raid environment beyond just healing or damage or whatever Yeah, like when you know for yeah, like yeah, sorry go ahead Some people were brought to raids not because of their high dps performance or anything else or their high healing out But they were there only debuff like everyone had a value in a different way exactly Paladins. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think like uh, especially in burning crusade with paladins too, but um One thing that I keep seeing and and this is this is a step further that This is a step further than where I think they're going to go with it But everybody's always talking about parses and and and whether it's vanilla whether it's lesion whether it's bfa Whatever it is. Everybody wants their parses. Everybody wants to do good damage. Everybody wants to do good healing The thing is And I don't know if they'll go this far Not having every class be competitive on damage and I have every class be competitive in every single aspect But to provide to the raid in other ways like it was in vanilla Is to me that's good game design, right? And some people say like well, that's not fun It's like well, maybe that class isn't for you. Maybe your class is you know, go play fury warrior go play road Go play mage in vanilla, right But we'll see. I mean, I know everybody's been as soon as the 8.0 patch hit everybody was talking about parses and I I almost think And the reason we're bringing this up and really this is this is the whole point of this podcast is We're seeing these changes in relation to classic right we're seeing these changes to the retail version of the game and how it relates to classic and I don't think it's necessarily like you're preparing you're not necessarily like preparing people for classic But I think it's okay. People want classic so bad. What were some good elements of classic and how could we go and Kind of kind of merge the two and meet them in the middle like let's take this Maybe this was a little bit better. We like this better in legion and bfa. Whatever in retail And and I think that might be something that they're looking at my original Viewpoint on this and and I still kind of think this and I could be wrong But I think that you do have two two separate markets You have people that that like bfa you have people that like vanilla and then there's it's like a venn diagram There's some people in the middle that overlap And with the addition of classic with classic coming out I think that it's like, okay, this gives them the opportunity to do whatever they want with bfa Whatever they want to do with whatever the next expansion is going to be but What seems to be happening is instead of just kind of like taking them and separating them They might just being like, okay Well, let's make this thing better or let's make this thing whatever people want to see the most And and better subjective right now because we don't really know But that that's just kind of the way things are trending and I think that's very interesting because I thought they They try and separate a little bit more, but it seems like they're merging a little bit more instead Yeah, I like that they're they're taking a risk and they're definitely trying and I think they acknowledge There are some good parts of vanilla. Wow, not everything is good But a lot of things are good and they're trying to incorporate those things in there's another big factor Why I think this is happening Ian has a costus. So Ian has a costus Became game direct game directors at the is that the official title? Yeah for it So he became game directors a couple months before legion came out But at that point, you know legion was sort of at least like the majority of it was pretty much already wrapped up So bfa is the first expansion. Ian has had Complete developmental control over this is this is his project Um, and for those of you that don't know Ian back in the day was he was a scarab lord He was a I think he was a prop warrior as a scarab lord. So he he he rated Way back in the day. He's been here since day one pretty much and I think that being his history I think he acknowledges and appreciates a lot of the original vanilla game game design and rate design and progression philosophy And I hope and I mean things are looking good I mean, I don't agree with him on everything But with a lot of the changes we're seeing with bfa that are sort of reminiscent of vanilla wow I I I I I I hope that he will continue with that Absolutely the game isn't going to transform into vanilla wow 2.0 overnight. That's impossible But baby steps like this kind of rewiring the habit slowly I think it's definitely a good thing. I think especially if you're a vanilla fan You know as much as I want to see classic again, of course, we're all classic fans here The idea of possibly having a game made in the same spirit of vanilla or with similar design philosophies as vanilla But with new content that we've never seen before kind of like a patch 1.13 That's pretty exciting too. And it's very nice that they're taking these changes And they're taking these steps kind of back into that direction and speaking of that It's not just the buffs they've changed They've also changed the global cool down or at least how abilities work on the global cool down As fan, do you want to talk about that a little bit, especially how it pertains to rat? Yeah, uh, so this is something that uh, basically from the beginning and you know We we have friends from all across the the spectrum of wow and One of the one of the things that universally a lot of people were really upset about I think was the global cool down change a lot of people don't like that there were so many things added on the global cool down and Those of you guys who've watched my streams recently. I've been doing a lot of arena. I really enjoyed pvp and I made this point the other night Whenever you don't have as many abilities when you have certain abilities not on the global cool down You could basically hit two buttons at the same time and uh, you know The the the point is brought up that when if you're playing at the high end when you're playing at the high end of the game And it's like in a hundred percent perfect world. You're making the perfect decisions every time Then it just allows you to make decisions faster. So it like increases the skill cap now my argument to that is it actually uh it actually raises the floor as much more so than ever increases the skill cap because It allows you to make the wrong decisions And fix it right away. It allows you to like fat finger a button. It allows you to hit two buttons at the same time And it's okay There's multiple times where you guys have seen me I've died in arenas because I get too aggressive and my bubble's on the global cool down I don't have auto bubble anymore, which is funny. I should be used to that But but I get really aggressive and my bubble gets on the global cool down can't bubble I can't stun somebody and pop my wings right away This slows down the game in a sense But it also makes your decisions much more valuable because every decision that you're making Or at least the the overwhelming majority of the decisions that you're making Now have a uh, there's a risk attached to it, right? I don't have to get out of jail free card and I think in reality it speeds up pbp It speeds up the game despite the fact that it slows down combat It slows down the the the micro and it speeds up the macro if that makes sense um I think it's a really really good change for the game and Again, it's it's very similar to classic wow that plays a little bit slower and it makes your decisions matter more That's the big thing I've noticed with this patch and uh, that's the big thing with classic too Like your decisions matter your decisions matter in classic and I think they want to give you that feeling back Uh, again, it's it's not the same. It's it's not the same But they're trying to give people back that feeling of your decisions matter and I think that's really really good Absolutely, I mean um, you brought it up a little bit like I'd say the main difference between vanilla combat and retail combat Is that vanilla you you're calculating a lot more. It's not necessarily a spammy It's not as fast paced or as dynamic But at the same time you're making a lot more decisions internally, especially because you have to manage resources That's something that's kind of been long gone in the game But like knowing how much mana you have, you know, should I use this rank of an ability or should I use that rank of an ability? Um, kind of understanding how much rage you have for example and you know acting accordingly Um, that's what I like about the global cooldown changes. I noticed when I was doing a dungeon the other day I played arms warrior and I was wondering like I had two mobs up And one of them was about to die should I just tap target and execute that mob? Or should I pop sweeping strikes and try to cleave both of the mobs down? Like it creates this decision that I have to make because I only have like two or three globals left And I have to make that decision instantaneously. So it definitely adds that kind of calculation back into the gameplay Um, it's again, it's not as visceral. Maybe like you're not doing as much apm or at least you don't think you are But it does make combat a little bit more interesting and again, that's that's how vanilla was most of the Most of the cooldowns almost all of the abilities in vanilla were on the gcd and it's very similar to that Yeah, absolutely. I mean back in vanilla I mean for for a long time managing your gcd was a skill in itself and always sort of planning around it And you were not only were you managing your own if you're fighting someone in pvp You're thinking about their gcd as well And that was that was that was a skill by itself But I mean personally in retail these days in legion I don't play pvp at a high level and I don't rate at a high level So I guess maybe take my opinion with a grain of salt But one thing I hear from people all the time that are that are coming back and playing retail is that the game Has felt a lot like back in legion and stuff the game has felt a lot like diablo 3 Where it is just spam spam spam spam spam not much thought if it's off cooldown you're using it and I think that I I personally can appreciate a much slower more methodical thought out premeditated Maybe this argument has been made for that gameplay such as vanilla wow Yeah, a big thing for me is like I'm playing wow. I'm not playing guitar hero. You know what I mean? Like yeah, it's it's an mmo. It's not it's not an rts. It's not starcraft, you know, and it's it's one of those things where I Shouldn't feel like just spamming the buttons over and over again is is the best option I I need to make I need to be decisive and to be precise with what I want to do I I honestly I like it a lot like I was dueling this morning. I was dueling for freaking like two hours I think off stream just outside of stormwind. This is another thing by the way So they got rid of templates, okay, they got rid of templates And duels are not like completely stupid now because it's it's you at the power creep issue They kind of they condensed everything down. They reduced the numbers Made it to where it's actually numbers that you can see Dueling is is is back like people are actually like dueling outside stormwind I have had more conversation with people in game In the last two days not even since the patch in the last two days I've had more conversation with people in the game Than I have had in the entire time I've played Legion and I'm dead serious about that Like I've had actual conversations with people people like comments. Oh, like oh, I saw your stream This and that and just like talking to people and dueling and like oh, I think this is good I think that's good It's a lot of how it was in classic and that's like if people are liking this in bfa They can expect to see some of that same stuff in classic. It's it's very much I'm getting that similar feel that I got again And I'm really really really excited about that. Yeah talking to people in 2018. Yeah, that's right No, it's it's real like I mean it's uh It's something that I'm very excited about and then that's that's what classics all about So this is almost like you're getting a little taste of it now and if that's something that you like you're going to love classic I think Absolutely, it's funny. A lot of people say that You know the social element of the game has disappeared not because of the game itself But because of like this modern generation or something like that. I completely disagree I think it was all systems based and when you create systems that make people dependent on others Or give incentive to communicate with others people will communicate with others It's just a matter of designing systems in such a way that kind of incentivize that communication. Absolutely 100% I mean human nature has not changed in the last 14 years. It has not people respond to incentives and vanilla wow I can't think of a game that that incentivizes rewards encourages fosters community and player interaction and teamwork more than vanilla wow I can't think of one game and that that those Those encouragements and incentive in incentivizations in lesion just they just don't exist You could you can pretty much do almost everything without ever I was thinking of doing like like a no discussion iron man challenge Or I see how far I could get in the game without ever typing to anyone. I think that'd be a really funny experiment Yeah, I think that'd be hilarious actually A couple years back somebody tried to do uh like leveling in in uh in world of warcraft without doing anything And literally all he did was queue up dungeons in afk and he got to like level 60 before he got banned Geez louise. That's so funny But uh, but you know, it's not just those two changes. There's been a number of others. Um, one of my favorites honestly Is the decrease in threat generation. Yes. Okay, there you go Yeah, like uh, it's just I've only done a couple of dungeons in the past couple of days But I will tell you on my guardian druid. It's feeling good I'm actually kind of having to focus and I get that monk as feeling like oh my god is my threat dropping You know what? I mean, I haven't had that feeling probably since like early wrath and it feels really good. Yeah I think I think that's really good Just like again, it's like you you have to watch I mean back in back in vanilla You have like ktm or back in like the older expansions ktm omen Those are those are the two add-ons that come to mind But like you had to have a threat meter and you know threats calculated Not just from your damage, but from different modifiers certain abilities do more threat percentage wise whatever But uh, you had to look at that as a dps like you constantly had to have one eye on your threat meter Because it's like you want to look at the dps meter, but at the end of the day Don't look at your dps meter in the fight. You got to look at your threat meter because if you pull aggro You're dead, right? And if you're dead, uh, you don't really do a whole lot of damage So I think it's something that's cool. Like again, just making decisions. You have to look more. It's paying more attention I love it. I remember two months ago during Legion, but this is before pre patch obviously I was watching a streamer and she was doing mythic plus 15 carries And someone in chat said hey, uh, what do you do to increase your threat your threat generation? And she she was just like what's that? Yeah, what is that? Like, you know as a tank you have taunt you taunt stuff But you're you're like threat generation. You don't worry about threat. It's not even a thing Isn't it wasn't an issue And now it is becoming more of an issue like threat used to be a mechanic Right is the thing that that capped your dps if you're a dps You were always checking the meter. You you were doing threat drop mechanics the tank, you know a good tank You you actually had defensive tanks and and threat generation tanks two different types of tanks And uh, like it it was a very very important part of rating and now, uh From the time it just wasn't it just wasn't yeah Well, go ahead. Sorry. No, no, it's okay. Go ahead. Well, I was just gonna say like, uh, you know speaking of threat generation So so in vanilla. Wow, there's a lot of like things have changed over the years, right people have figured out No changes. Sorry. I know but people have learned people have learned over the years and One of the big things is I remember back in the day. It was like, oh The tank spams thunder spams thunder whenever you start the fight get five stacks of thunder up. That's how you generate threat Hit your thunder clap. No the now we've learned that Your prop warriors when they're tanking You're not actually the one who puts up thunder and most times you don't even put up thunder clap Like if you have Four fury warriors Really, I mean you could put up one thunder, right and you have four fury warriors Your dps warriors are actually hitting a thunder to open up their rotation. So Not only does that allow your tank to go into his tps rotation after that, but Every single one of your dps warriors putting up thunder on their first hit gives you five stacks immediately and increases Your overall medley dps on the on the boss because reduces more more armor Ways to generate threat in vanilla wow are It's actually surprisingly it's surprisingly interesting I I should say because it's like, you know, you don't think something like threat. It's like an invisible It's an invisible number. It's an invisible stat. You can't even really see it without the without the add-on But people have figured out ways to min max it and how to how to properly apply it and it's it's totally changed And I think that's cool. I think it's really cool Absolutely and the second part of that is not just the tank themselves. It's the dps around the tank Dps are having to possibly slow down their damages a little bit wait for the tank to grab aggro And again, it transforms the combat from being this spammy dynamic visceral experience To a more of a calculating experience a decision-making decision-making based experience And it kind of you know, it kind of scratches a different itch. I guess you could say from a gameplay perspective Yeah, as a dps, especially a warlock in vanilla. Wow, I've played with bad tanks And I played with good tanks and if I'm with a good tank I can do more dps because they're pumping out more threat and I'm and you know I'm not going to be threat locked being threat lock is a dps and vanilla wow Like if you do one more shannibal and you get an unlucky crit or something you will pull the boss and you'll die so It the threat management is actually it adds a lot to the skill cap of tank Like if you're properly doing your your threat your threat output rotation or not Yeah And it allows a tank it allows different tanks to distinguish themselves more like you will be able to tell Who is a better tank and who is the worst tank now because it's going to be obvious to the dps If a dps runs in he starts doing his rotation and he dies He's going to be like, oh crap. This guy's not very good Maybe versus like finding a tank that no matter what you do you can unload from the first moment It's definitely going to make you appreciate that tank a little bit more I'm very curious as to how it's going to work with the skittish buff in mythic plus or the fix or whatever Yeah, so Is it going to stack with skittish and is skittish still the same threat modifier because if it is Dude, those dungeons. That's crazy. Yeah, it's it's going to it's going to be like vanilla like when it comes to threat I think it's going to be like it will probably it might even be harder Honestly, if it's the same if it's if it's the same amount as it is in legion They have to they're probably going to have to reduce the amount But it's funny actually stay safe. You're you reminded me of a story So stay safe and I rated together for a little bit and we've done blackwing lair And I remember specifically on brood lord on brood lord lash lair and blackwing lair what we had to do Stay safe would be riding the freaking tanks tail And if the if there's the threat drop and stay safe gets hit and stay safe pulls aggro Well, he's dead, right and people get knocked around and they get hit in the the welps in the back It's a huge mess. So what we had to do stay safe would pop a living action potion He would not sorry not living action potion a limited invulnerability potion And that is I believe six seconds of immunity and that six seconds of immunity allows him to go over cap on threat Because he is immune the mechanics of the game in vanilla make it to where that That boss that mob won't target the guy who's immune to damage like they're kind of smart, right? So he would get six seconds and then what I would do at the end of that six seconds I would bop stay safe. So stay safe would essentially get 16 seconds of just going full ham At the end of the boss Allowing him to go over threat Now if we were to happen to not kill them in that time then stay safe was going to die But uh, usually we do that at the very end. So yeah, you save it for the last like 10 or 15 percent The boss has to be dead by the time that that time period is up. Otherwise Otherwise the boss is going to snap onto me the way the one with that bop drops people get pissed. Yeah It's crazy. It's crazy how different the combat was back then because of things like threat generation But but uh beyond just the actual game mechanics You have things like the removal of auto grouping in world quests And we talked a little bit about the social aspect before but I want to kind of come back to that So, uh, basically you can no longer use the premade group finder tool To auto accept people into a world quest group. You actually have to talk or kind of manually find a group for world quests What do you guys think about that? Uh, I think anything I think anything that increases the social aspect of the game is good. Um Here's the thing People are naturally this is just how it works. You're going to take the most Comfortable route you're going to take the path of release resistance. That's how people work. That's natural So whenever you can queue up for something whenever you can automatically just get into something and not have to worry about talking Anybody and not have to worry about this then that's just your natural inclination is to do just that whether you like it or not That's this what ends up happening Now the difference is whenever people are put into a situation where they have to adapt they have to be adaptable A lot of times like you end up getting a sense of fulfillment a sense of a sense of accomplishment sense of joy even Out of doing that right just getting to talk to people just getting to talk to people just getting to interact with them and get to come together and Accomplish a task whether that's do a dungeon do a raid pvp together It's it's a lot better. I think even a quest it's a lot better Yeah, yeah Yeah, I think today in the game like I very strongly feel this way. I think there's too many menus There's too many tabs. There's too many pains. There's too many cues I hope in classical and classical comes out. I hope to queue for bg We have to run, you know, if you're a whore, you have to run to the barons and talk to the guy For worse long goals. I want that. I think there is something to be said for too much instant instant gratification I like imagine this remember back in classic when you had to you and your boys in your dungeon group had to run All five of you had to run to the to the instance together If you didn't have a warlock you all had to go there On that journey just going out in the world and actually traveling somewhere going out and engaging with the world Maybe you inadvertently killed a mob and got a and got a world be a wee epic Or maybe you saw a group of horde and you you had world pvp Like people say you can you can still do that? Yes, you can still do that But players respond to incentives and like S1 said people tend to take the path of least resistance Like people it's not human nature that's changed. It's just that things Like people will do what they have to do and um, they they've made the game easier in in that one regard at least Exactly or more convenient at least Exactly and what I found so interesting about this specific thing was like I think this represents the first attack On like the modern streamlined lfg system like ever since the dungeon finder tool was introduced in wrath of lich king Basically every element of the game has had some kind of form of a pre-made group finder Or some kind of streamlined way to group up whether requesting raids dungeons everything You have lfr you have the pre-made group finder or whatever It's the first time Since wrath of the lich king that they've kind of taken a step back and removed one of these streamlined group finder features instead of elaborated on it and uh What what excites me about that is that it's kind of set a precedent now to possibly I'm not going to say get rid of lfr But like it definitely sets a precedent to kind of possibly continuously work backwards and kind of Go back to you actually have to talk to people your reputation actually matters on a server in order to be able to get into groups Do you see that as a possibility? Do you see a potential for the group finder tool being restricted to the point of obsolescence? Or possibly getting rid of lfr down the line. I mean, is this just a pipe dream or what? So Go ahead Jason go ahead I think that I think the majority of these features are way too ingrained I think there are way too many people that only pay for a while sub to lfr rate I bet there are hundreds of thousands of people that the only reason they pay for a while every month is so that they can Lfr rate and see the content even though it's on the easiest wheelchair difficulty like I genuinely think that So I don't I don't think that they'll take that away Yeah, I uh, I agree with you I do think and and You know, this is classic ass. It's not bfa cast. I don't want to go too much into this But I I do have my own opinions on on how power creep is uh How how how the power creep develops in in the current state of retail? Wow? and I actually I think yin has costus hit the nail on the head, but There's there's other things that they might have to do to fix it and maybe removing a difficulty, right? and again, like this is this class cast we're not we're not trying to get too much into bfa here, but having so many difficulties in bfa and retail wow Causes there to be a tremendous amount of power creep Within each raid tier not just like the the typical amount of power creep that we saw in vanilla, right? You see in vanilla you see a progression of Uh, you know your your your dungeon gear your prerate stuff crafted stuff whatever And then you even have some crafted stuff that bleeds up higher into this But like you have your mc gear you have your bw gear and then after bw you start to see a little bit more of a A little bit of an exponential increase just a tad into aq 40 and into nax And there's a couple reasons for that one Is because they found out what specs people are playing and they were making gear to Accommodate those specs as opposed to just gear with like good stats That's why a lot of times like people's like best in slot for each patch is not tier at all But you see that and then you get to the point where you're in nax and then nax is where it changes and then you have I mean hyper optimized tier three gear all this stuff So you're not only getting higher item level But you're also getting better itemized gear and that causes the gear in nax to be like really really strong But I also think that's deservedly so for how few people actually had nax I mean cleared not only on farm but cleared let alone stepping into it in Retail wow the fact that they have lfr. They have normal. They have heroic. They have mythic Means that there's so much power creep because you have to make a difference between this gear because if the lfr Gear is too good too good Then the mythic players and the heroic players and even the normal players are going to be upset about that You already have that issue with titan forging, which I think they should have gotten rid of but if you didn't have as many of these Then there would be less power creep between these tiers. Maybe if there was three maybe if there was two I don't think lfr is something that they're going to get rid of right as much as As much as I think it shouldn't have ever been there in the first place I don't think that I don't I don't think that's something that that's Easily fixed and it's something that really wasn't an issue as much in vanilla power creep is a good thing And I have okay, so I have a video explaining this. I was on stream. It's not even a real video Okay, I have a video explaining power creep, but it's not even a real video. It's it was from my stream It's a stream clip so my thoughts are all over the place But I explain I try and explain how power creep is actually a good thing I was explaining how the power creep in in vanilla works a little bit more in depth off the cuff And a lot of people are like, well, wait, you know, isn't power creep bad Oh, I got a lot of responses either isn't power creep always bad or the power creep in vanilla was good I'm like, well, this is my point and no, it's not so I felt like I didn't really do a very good job explaining it But uh, that's something I may read you in the future I think it depends on the extent of the power creep I mean with the way that the game is designed now Old raids, you know, you like you know how I think asman has said this you play the patch not the expansion gear is so It doesn't have any longevity you use it and then you lose it and it doesn't have any real value outside of the patch You're playing it in There there are no there are no iconic pieces I bet most people that play legion right now couldn't actually name from memory one piece of gear They're wearing even if you play the game every day. I doubt you could even name one piece of gear You're wearing I mean I play this game 70 hours a week I can't name one piece of gear that I that I'm wearing right now It doesn't have any value to me like in vanilla Wow because gear because the way the power creep was established and the way or it was so much Less than it than it is in retail And the way that even gear from molten core had value into aq 40 and even some pieces in the next With every class there with these very iconic Namable recognizable pieces and it really really felt good like this gear had value it had longevity It had it had a piece of like Not not lore but like like like player like I don't even know like like infamy. Yeah, exactly. I know exactly what we're talking about Yeah, yeah, like ash candy like that. Yeah moats and chat right a piece like that. Yeah Yeah, yeah, no no doubt. I mean you see like I mean crap like onslaught girdle right ash condi like you said I mean, I don't even I don't even play a caster, but I see a caster running around with like staff shadow flame Like go freak, right? Like It's a thing. It's like you see you see these items and they mean something Like you said, I'm 100 on the same page 100% can't I can't really name anything Nothing really is at least in the current state of the game. Nothing is really iconic. It's a powerful piece The only things that the only things that are iconic are as cool looking pieces for transmog not You're right. Yeah, I I brought this point up on stream the other day and someone in chat said Oh, well, you must not be a mythic So mythic raiding everyone has their business memorize and everyone knows what their gear is But you know imagine that might be 10% of the player base Like hardcore mythic raiders that they can do that in vanilla. Wow. That was 100% of the player base Everyone knew the iconic pieces. Yeah, so that's that's the point. I'm trying to make which is yeah I mean that's the whole thing because like we've said it before like, uh, you know, none of us None of you you've technically mythic raided a little bit, but um technically one of 11 But like we're not mythic raiders, right? But the point is is that it doesn't matter, right? So whether it's a more casual player. I mean dude fricking your level You know 1700 whatever and you're you're running around an iron forager and dornassus and then you you see some guy in in full Uh, you know full judgment gear, right? He's got an ash candy and you're like frick. I know exactly what that is Right. I know exactly what that is. That's a dude. You know, that's a real dude and uh I don't know. I mean like You you do have different appearances for like you have the sets and there's like the Things like there's like the mythic chosen set for example, and there's there's stuff like that. I get it But uh, you you see that and it's all for transmog. It's not about the power of the item It's about the look at the item and that's that's where the real difference comes in to me and I don't I don't know I don't think that's as cool Absolutely, I feel like one of the big problems with today's item design and an item progression is it's not at all About the item every item might be it might as well be an unnamed statistic The only the only thing that matters is the eye level of the item. It's just eye level. It's just going to boost my eye level Yes, okay. I'm going to put it on the name like it's not a big deal Uh, I think that's a problem Yeah, and you know, we've talked about a lot of different things But like you see the effect that LFR has on the game like you know a lot of people You know, some people think that we we bash LFR needlessly But just that one feature has caused everything you just heard power creep, you know losing value in items Content not being as interesting to pursue because you've already seen the final boss before you get to the difficulty That's actually challenging Like all of these things are affected by LFR and whether or not it gets removed I guess we can't really say but definitely seeing blizzard kind of take a step back into that direction Kind of nullify some of the some of the power that these auto grouping tools have in the game I think that's a good thing. I think it's far more like classic and if this is just the first step I'm very excited for it and um But yeah speaking of of changing how quests work They actually are reintroducing elite quests into battle for azeroth For those that didn't play vanilla elite quests or group quests were essentially quests that require you to group up with other people Because you would be challenging an elite mob or a set of elite mobs and oftentimes they require three to five people Um, I haven't seen an elite quest in the game Since cataclysm and actually a lot of them were taken out post vanilla Even at burning crusade a lot of the elite quests were removed So it's very interesting to see these quests come back some iconic ones in vanilla like the more ladine quest Yeah, the game hunting quests at the nesting wary camp But a lot of other elite quests too. How do you feel about this s-fan? How do you feel about elite quests coming back into the game? I think it's cool. I mean, I think it's cool. I think the quest should have uh big rewards Whether it's a lot of xp or whether it's cool items um This because that's kind of how it was in in vanilla. Wow The uh, I actually didn't even know until you mentioned this because you you mentioned this to me before the show That or not before but but you like you know earlier in the past you mentioned this to me I didn't even know that we're bringing elite quests back I think again putting players in a situation where if they want to do all the quests They want to do this they want to do that People are achievement hunting now So people are going to be in a situation where if they want to get all their achievements Like for get all the quests done in a certain zone or whatever That they're going to have to be forced into a situation where they have to find a group for this and uh, They're going to they're going to you know be in a situation where they're going to have the potential to make friends Whether they like it or not, right? So like you know go go go play with everybody else I think that's good. I mean just thinking of like, you know, you mentioned a few iconic ones Whenever I think of elite quests, I think of the chain from uh, I think you get it in stormwind But you're going up to the altar act mountains and you have to kill the ogres And it's like the princess and the the heart and the you guys know what i'm talking about What's that quest called? There's a lot of xp, but it's really long. Yeah Yeah, and uh, that is uh, you know stuff like that to me is like I remember I got that quest at like I don't know like whatever the earliest level is you can get at like 30 or 32 or something But I couldn't actually complete it until like I think 38 But it took me so long to to try and find people to uh To to basically do it with I don't know. I thought it was cool I think stuff like that's cool and like I felt really good Whenever I did uh, whenever I did that quest and I remember it, you know I don't really remember a whole lot of quests that I've done in retail. Wow in recent years, you know Yeah I don't really know how the elite quests are going to play out in in uh, and bfa If you'll be able to like spec prod and solo it or what I don't know how it's going to play out But in theory, you know any any any activity elite quests or whatever it might be that incentivizes, you know coordination teamwork communication Hey, can you help me do this quest? I'll help you do like that's really really good That's really good and the game has been lacking stuff like that for a long time Absolutely, and when you run into these elite monsters in the world It kind of reminds you how big the world is and how small you are Like on the horde side in the beta right now There's an elite quest at uh in that jungle zone, whatever it's called and you have to kill a bunch of dinosaurs And like each dinosaur is an elite dinosaur It kind of gives you that fellow reaver moment when you pass one of these dinosaurs and aggros you and you're like Crap dude, this thing's going to kill me and you basically die, you know It just it makes the world feel a little bit more dangerous and the idea of having to group up with people Take down these worldly challenges. Again, I think that's really cool And it encourages that kind of social behavior Yeah, um Real quick. I just I just want to take a I just want to take a chance to remind you guys if you guys haven't already Please follow. Please follow stay safe or tips and stay safe I posted their links in the chat tips out baby and stay safe tv Follow them on twitter follow them on youtube follow them on twitch, of course You guys can check out their streams there and you know, we're all we're all classic boys That's what we like to talk about we like to we'd like to talk classic We like to talk vanilla Um, so just real quick. I want to mention if you guys haven't already Please take the time to do that again. I posted their uh, I posted the links to their channels in uh in chat right there, so There's that thank you very much man. Yeah guys. I appreciate it Hey, do you guys want to talk about this is one of my this is my favorite Actually, this is my favorite piece of content in vanilla wow and it's questing I love leveling and questing more than anything else the ratings find pvp is good But leveling in vanilla was my favorite piece And I think that's the case because of how open ended and non linear it is and for the last couple expansions questing and leveling has been very I mean actually actually like everything from kata to legion has been very very Linear and you haven't like you have to do every quest in a very certain specific order, right? And one thing I've noticed I haven't played much in the beta, but I did play a lot on the alpha I leveled up twice on the alpha up to 120 the bfa alpha It is a lot more it's not quite as you know open ended as vanilla wow, but it is a lot more open ended than we've seen for the last couple expansions What do you guys think about that? Well, I haven't done the leveling myself yet. I got like a couple levels in I was just kind of like doing my thing but uh I think that's something that's promising. Do you know a little bit more tips? Yeah, uh, so basically how it works now you can no longer get to level cap by just doing the main storyline quests You actually kind of have to go out of your way to to explore I guess a little bit and do some of the side quests Um, I think it's really cool. I think again incentivize the exploration and it creates uh opportunity for more replayability I think uh, basically since raffle lich king the game has obviously been a lot more alt friendly So naturally people are going to roll alts But even on your mains, I just think it's very exciting to Kind of have a a non scripted quest experience where you kind of just go around Do whichever side quests you want to do and me personally? I've always appreciated side quests a little bit more than like the big storyline I think it's a lot more interesting to help some farmer find his daughter and like, you know In some random cave and just kill the yeti's in the cave Then it is to like destroy this like crazy dragon that you have no connection to So I think it's really engaging. I like the idea of questing being just kind of an adventure And not so much a scripted on rails experience Um, I think it's good. Again. It's a baby step But the side quests are there and if that's something that's elaborated on in the future, that's awesome, man I I love where the game seems to be going Because that direction is kind of back more towards the classic way and I think that's really cool. Yeah. Yeah for sure You know and speaking of which, you know being out in the world one thing I want to talk about is world pvp and the the Resurrection I that that's what it is it's because it was totally dead in my opinion world pvp was totally dead in retail wow and I think with the addition of uh, I think with the addition of war mode And just all the different changes they've made with templates They've made it to where you know what what you do actually matters your gear choices matter There's not an insane amount of uh, there's not an insane amount of power creep I think that there is again, you're you're Introducing the retail wow player base to or maybe even not introducing if people have played for a long time But but you're giving people a taste of of how classic feels a little bit I mean I we did city raids yesterday on my stream and we went we got the black war bear Whatever we did for the Alliance achievement and it was so much fun And it was some of the most fun that I've had since since I started playing retail, you know in years actually, but um That's the kind of stuff that you see in classic. Wow, right you have world pvp You'll have ganking groups you'll you'll go out and you'll do things together with people And uh, I think that's something that's again really coming back and whether it's the combat You know going back to like whenever we're talking about the gcd change and making it to where your decisions matter more And there's a lot more risk involved and like okay, I pressed the wrong button. I'm dead now, you know um Stuff like that. I mean it's it's it's kind of giving uh It's giving people a taste, you know if people if people like that like I said, they're going to really like classic They're going to really like how vanilla feels. I think if that's what people are uh enjoying right now Yeah, I really like warm-up. There's a couple annoyances I have but I think in general it's really good I like uh, you can see this in darfs right now the bounty system. I think bounties are a really cool idea I like that a lot Um warm-up is fun. Oh, yeah now the phasing that we've seen in warm-up Where if you if you make a big raid group and some of your raid members if you if it's if it becomes too Big for your shard or your phase you'll have people in your own group that get phased out So you can't even see people in your own group that that can be really really frustrating And I've been kind of a lot of problems with that. I also this might be an unpopular opinion I don't know but I wish they would disable flying in warm-up. I think that would really really incentivize and hammer home Just like that would increase the amount of people you see running around Get rid of flying in warm-up. It'd be really interesting Yeah, I mean flying just it kills every element of world PV Just being able to mount up and get away. It's like, what's the freaking point? So yeah, well, this is what I have to say about that actually and I think it'd be really cool I think it'd be really cool to not be able to fly but they've I'm sure they've thought about this like I mean, I would think that this is something that's come up Is not being able to fly something that Would be so cumbersome to too many players That they would just decide to not play in warm-up I think I think that's something that they probably thought of and that's something I would really like to see I wish they would just hot fix it in honestly I wish they would just hot fix it in in the pre-patch and just say for a week no flying in warm-up I think that'd be something that'd be super interesting to see and just see and people are going to complain But I just think it'd be super interesting to see how the world plays out Now they did add in the the net-o-matic projector, which is a lot like the What's it called the the engineering Turns you into a leopard gnome. You know what I'm talking about And in vanilla wow, it's it's a lot like that except you have the like net-o-matic 5000 I think is what it is you get it from pvp and bfa And you cast it on people you shoot a net and knocks them off their mount if they're flying that take falling damage I shot somebody out of the air yesterday dropped to the ground. He died. It was so satisfying. I was so happy But um, I don't know. Maybe that's their band-aid fix to that I don't know. I think I think it is a band-aid and like I think the flying thing is a big problem I was going to say like That's that's a good thought process. That's something you need to consider You know, maybe they probably had that thought if we remove flying will just no one use war mode I think not having flying would be so worth it that it would like they should heavily incentivize using war mode Like if that means a hundred percent bonus xp when you're requesting or another hundred percent bonus world quest reward Like just just to not have flying that would be worth it in my opinion Yeah, I think that's actually a really good idea just like make it insane like you'd feel stupid and not go in war mode Right. Yeah, absolutely. It would be pvp madness man. It would be so fun. It'd be really good actually Dude, I would go ahead. Sorry. Sorry. There should be a stark difference between each mode Like war mode should feel very different from normal mode because pvp servers felt very different from pvu servers back in the day Like if you want a pvp server and vanilla You could not roll uh, two of the same faction You can't have characters on both factions on the server on top of that the second you hit, you know Hillsbrad stv, whatever zone you're just in a complete war mode like you are in war mode for real And uh, you just end up hating the enemy faction so much And uh, if they if they turned war mode into like I guess a place where those people that love that rivalry that love that hatred can kind of just like Have an outlet. I think that'd be really really cool. The more the more differences between the two the better Yeah, well, and this is something that in the retail game So so I think faction pride is is relatively dead Not a hundred percent, but it's kind of dead In in retail. Wow. I mean you have people like they're trying to arena at a high level They have horde characters. They have alliance characters. They they have to play specific races to get specific racial abilities And and stuff like that, you know, you go into rbgs. You're an alliance You're in an alliance You're on the alliance, but you're on the horde side for the rbg because you have two alliance teams queued against each other Same thing for you know, you have two alliance teams queued against each other It kind of it kind of takes you out of that a little bit. It kind of kills the faction pride There's not the difference of like paladins or only alliance shamans or only horde I think a bunch of this stuff and it's a lot of little things that kind of add into Or kind of add up to killing off faction pride and Again, something that's kind of frustrating But hopefully this is the kind of thing that they think about, you know Orcs versus humans horde versus the alliance battle for azeroth I think they they've started to move the pieces back a little bit And more in the direction of warcraft and what warcraft is and I think that's a really good sign to I think it's a good sign for classic and I've said it before Um the more The more people that are intrigued by classic the better right there's more people playing it The more people play it the more money blizzard makes the more money blizzard makes the more support They're gonna have for it the more they're going to invest in it And uh, I think that's good for all of us vanilla fans. That's really really really good Absolutely And on the subject of pvp One of the other things that they're bringing back And I think a lot of people that pvp a lot are going to be happy about this is the return of pvp currency gear So it's we're not actually going too far back here. We're going back to wad. I mean, obviously since the inception of like vanilla basically There was always like some kind of currency based gear some vendor based gear The high warlord gear and the ranking gear and vanilla was vendor based But uh, but they're bringing back vendor based gear for the first time since I guess wad Uh, they took it away in legion and they replaced it with the templates and and that whole rng based system in the lock boxes But they're bringing it back and um, even though it wasn't that long ago that they took it away It's still a step back In the previous direction What do you guys think about pvp gear like Obviously the classic pvp system is heavily criticized, but but what do you think about it? Like what do you think about the change? What do you think about currency based gear versus random based gear? I hated how it was in legion how if you do you're a q and arena you get maybe you get a piece of gear you might tighten Or you know, maybe you get it. Maybe you don't that's that's so Non-rewarding. I what what I liked like personally, I really like the burning crusade and wrath model where you could Formulatively, you know, you could plan. Okay in two weeks with this arena rating I'll have enough points to buy this piece of gear It's something you can strive for it's a sense of accomplishment and with it was just like pulling a Like a little lottery lever right every time you cued arena did or did a battleground in legion It's like, oh, am I going to get the bonus gear? Nope. I didn't get the bonus gear. It was it wasn't rewarding or incentivizing at all Yeah, and and you know Again, it's something else like I didn't know uh, I didn't know that we're doing this either But this is something that I like too. I like the ability to choose. I like the ability to make decisions So, I mean, I didn't even know I didn't even know until until again you mentioned that earlier tips But um, I think that's something that's good. I think that's something that's really good the um And that's the thing. I mean that's I obviously i'm excited for classic But i'm excited for bfa too because of this and you know for the first time in years, right? Because you know, you're starting to see things that it's it's shifting a little bit and in more of the direction of I I mean, I personally like it, right? But hopefully a lot of other people do as well so Yeah, and talking about uh, the gear system of vanilla because I kind of skipped over that but The gear system in vanilla. The gear is so good. I have no problem with that gear requiring a huge time investment Like it's not required. It's not make or break your guild is still going to clear the raids If not everyone has it But it is a huge reward for a huge time investment and and dedication effort in your life. I'm fine with that Yeah, you're talking about the pp gear the pp gear in vanilla. Yeah Yeah, you have to get a certain rank to buy it. Yeah One is a level of prestige that came with that, right? Yeah So whether it's, you know, let's let's take it a step. Let's let's go to burning crusade, right? I remember you had your you had your arena shoulders Right, you had your arena shoulders and it's like, okay. That's a real dude. Like that's that's a that's a that's a guy Like that's somebody who can play that's somebody who earned it Uh, and there's a reason for that. There's a reason why I remember back to burning crusade There's a reason why they had the rating requirements the 1800. I believe was the weapon And or you know what they changed it a couple times, didn't they? Wasn't it like 1850 and then 2200 for weapon and then shoulder and then they changed Uh, the shoulder to 2k I can't remember. Yeah in bc didn't didn't they have it like 2200 shoulders for season one and they pulled it back I don't know if it ever dropped down. I don't remember that was a long time ago Yeah, or maybe it was season four either way either way um They they had a higher rating requirement for you you had a good one for the weapon because the weapon is the single Biggest upgrade that you can get to your set right the single biggest upgrade that you can get to your set is your weapon Then your shoulders are one of the pieces that sticks out the most right alongside your helmet right some people hide their helmet So they made the most The highest requirement piece as far as your rating goes Your shoulders because there's a level of prestige that comes with it and that shows that that shows up more Like you're you're paladin you have your your season three shoulders You got the big you got the light coming off of it and it looks nice and it's like that for everybody Right shaman's had that red set You know recolors the tear gear, but but it was cool and that's something that uh, it really stood out Whenever somebody had that so Yeah, absolutely Um, we actually did gloss over the final change right here This is the final change that we've noticed that that kind of takes the game back into the direction of classic The leveling difficulty now technically this didn't happen or it didn't start in a battle for azeroth This started in patch 7.3.5 recently in legion But the scaling changes in bfa have also kind of added to this And that is the leveling difficulty increasing dramatically Um, I noticed this when we were doing project 80 a couple months back There were some quests that you just could not do solo Whether it be because of a bug or for the scaling or just the level difficulty changed. I don't know But uh leveling takes a lot longer now The 1 to 15 takes like three times as long as it did before And beyond that obviously just leveling is just taking a lot more time and mobs are doing a lot more damage to you And take a lot longer to kill now How do you yeah, what do you think about that? I mean, hopefully leveling is fun, but either way. I mean, I hope it's either way the longer it takes the The more people will view it as content and not just uh, it's a two-day chore I have to do just so I can finally play the game at max level in vanilla. Wow leveling was content That was you know for some people that was half of their entire vanilla experience, right? Or over half maybe maybe they got to 16 and they didn't really do much leveling was like a key Piece of content In fact, if anyone here is watching and they haven't played vanilla wow before one of the biggest piece of advice I can give you going into classic wow is like seriously enjoy leveling It is a very fun and enjoyable piece of vanilla wow that shouldn't be looked at Through the lens of retail. Wow is just like an inconvenience. It is actually very very fun And I want you guys all to enjoy it get the most out of it I actually have big beef with uh with leveling and retail. Wow to be honest I do uh, I I think leveling and retail. Wow is uh, it doesn't know what it is And uh, and I'm like this is coming from somebody who I'm a classic guy I'm a vanilla guy and I'm really really happy with the overall state of the game right now And in retail. Wow, which I'm actually personally surprised about Because a lot of people were talking like oh bf is gonna suck this and that but so far in the prepatch I I really enjoy it Now I think with leveling right now. Like I said, it doesn't know what it is, right? It's something that the the game is so top heavy and it's so focused on on 110 or 120 and bfa It's so top heavy and it's so focused on the very end game content That you don't get the same sort of progression that you do in vanilla. Wow Like state save is mentioned before leveling is like your favorite thing to do Like you you you have speed level multiple characters for fun. Just like get to level 40 and like, okay, I've got my cutoff point Um Now I I was never like that to where I enjoyed leveling that much But at least whenever I level I I get the feeling of progression and you get small you feel the Uh development of small wins. You feel the impact of small wins. That's what it's about Vanilla wow has a lot of small wins Over and over again you level you get one level you get one talent point So you take that one talent point you get to choose where you put it you put it somewhere else Uh, whenever they added the new talent system, I go 15 levels before I can put in one talent point In bfa, they didn't add a talent from 100 to 110 to 120 Which is that's probably that's one of my one of my few gripes right now with with bfa, but uh You're you're reducing you're increasing the leveling time So you're you're increasing the amount of time it takes to level without increasing the feeling of reward Without increasing the uh, you know without adding in the small wins Uh That's one of the things to me and it's like, okay. Well, you can't have one talent point for every level now There's freaking 120 levels, right? I mean what you just said right there I'm sorry interrupt what you just said right there contributes to this feeling of leveling out is a waste of my time Like you just want to get to max level as fast as possible in retail The entire process feels just like a chore and waste of time Yeah, and vanilla wads like you said there are small incremental every level get a talent point Maybe you'll get it like it's you hit it now nail the head man Mm-hmm. Yeah, I was going to say the same thing honestly like It's a difference between like just having that growth while you're leveling Makes leveling far more interesting than not having it the problem with slowing down the leveling right now in retail It feels like they're slowing it down. It's taking longer, but you're not getting any growth out of it You're not feeling that progression like you said I spent so it feels more frustrating than anything else Like even though it's it's kind of calling back to what vanilla was It's missing that key element that made vanilla leveling what it actually was and right it was so important But again, it's baby steps. It's kind of a step back in that original direction And you know all of these things they're baby steps I mean none of these things are going to make the game They're not going to transform the game into vanilla overnight But they have kind of set the directional compass backwards Rather than forwards and I think us here on the classic cast can agree That's a good thing but But but it's time to kind of look ahead. I guess I mean So is this a sign of things to come? Uh, yeah, I mean that that's kind of like the the point of the whole podcast here today guys Is we really wanted to look at some of the changes in bfa and Again for those of you guys who missed the intro Look at some of the things that they've they've changed going into bfa and kind of like turn the ship around turn the compass around and Kind of go back to a little bit more of a classic field and and how that bodes for for the future of warcraft as a whole A little bit different podcast today, but I think it's it's relative to bfa coming out soon and the recent 8.0 patch For those of you who are playing retail. Wow For those of you who are who are vanilla guys exclusively I think that's something that even you should be excited about because it's going to uh, it's going to increase the hype from uh from another From another market essentially for classic if If people really are enjoying bfa, I think But uh, but yeah, I think I think it's good. I think it's good You know, I kind of said it there, but uh, but yeah, I think it's something that is good If it increases the hype for classic if it if it It makes people more intrigued. I think it's good Yeah, we have to see if they follow through and if these changes are well received by the player base I mean classic. Wow. We've had this before if classic. Wow is really popular and blows up classic. Wow. I think has the capacity to Change retail like future retail. Wow Game design and also non blizzard games and there might be other mmo's or other games that are taking hints or cues from classic Wow original, you know 2000 2003 game design and like it could sort of change change a lot of things Um, but yeah, they they have to follow through and it will we'll see how it goes But right now things things are looking good. I really I really do think so Let's say classic is a resounding success. It's just exactly what we imagine and more Do they change the game to become more like classic or not? And if they do how many expansions does it take for them to implement those changes? Is something that can happen within an expansion's time? Or is it something that it'll progressively roll out maybe three expansions down the line from now? I mean, what do you guys think about that? um You're talking are you talking about in retail? Yeah So so in retail if they like if they take it towards basically just like it feels just like classic and It's like 10 expansions in the future is basically what you're saying Yeah, well first of all, will they make it just like classic if classic is super successful and for whatever reason The retail starts to fall off and if they do how long will it take for them to get up to that point? Oh, yeah. Okay. I see what you're saying. Yeah. I mean, I don't know do they uh Do they change the retail version of the game? in the uh in the case Whether likely or unlikely In the case that classic is it ends up being more popular than retail um That's something that's really interesting. I mean At the end of the day if they do a shared sub they're doing a shared sub and the game is what it is I think more of the question comes if I don't know if they'll ever do that I think it's more likely that you'll see like a classic plus if that's the case and you start seeing 1.13 1.14 and so on Uh post next content on like a on a new fresh server Maybe maybe you roll through maybe the first iteration they go that and they do bernard crusade They do it again. You go that and then you go to uh, you go to 1.13 and on content where you'll actually get to go to Hygel you get to do cares and you'll get to go to old them a grim batol Um death wings lair is in hygel or presumably it's death wings lair in hygel um I think uh, I think that ends up being a little bit different discussion because you can go so many ways with that I think it's not likely that they uh that they totally end up changing The retail game to match to match classic but that kind of falls in line with my original Just kind of how I think like you still have two markets. It's just it's like a venn diagram, right? It overlaps a little bit I think they could do small changes uh to retail in the future But like in order to answer this question, we need to we need to make a list of that Things in retail that are that are differentiating it from vanilla wow. So you have like raid finder dungeon finder Um, you have like auto group finder stuff. You have cross realm. You have phasing you have sharding You have transmog like are these things that they would ever gut from the game? And I think these core elements in retail. They won't ever get rid of yeah Now small changes. It's too far gone small changes like this like, you know tweaking leveling or You know returning currency to pvp gear stuff like that I think they could do but just like these giant fundamental pieces of retail wow today I don't I don't see them going anywhere. I don't think so Yeah, I agree like all the all the uh the list that we mentioned today They're all superficial changes. They're all surface level changes None of them really affect the core of the game or like the core principles of the game The only one that I think is actually pretty significant or the one that's very significant I should say is the removal of auto grouping in world quest not necessarily because of its direct effect now But the impact that that precedent could have down the line. I mean I I'm usually a pessimist but for whatever reason this one I hope it's a sign of things to come although Although we wouldn't know but I agree there's just too many fundamentals man too many fundamentals so Guys we're uh, we're we're a little bit shorter on time than we normally are this uh Today this week on classic cast So we want to go ahead and move into a q&a. We're going to go ahead and move into q&a If you guys have any questions, uh, you guys can feel free to tweet at us Tweet at tweet at us hashtag classic cast type questions in the chat Let's go ahead and take some questions from the chat first and then then we'll go to twitter for some questions Uh before I have to go Again, just one more time if you guys haven't yet Please please please follow twitch.tv slash tips out baby twitch.tv slash stay safe tv And uh, you know follow this channel as well. We're all classic guys And again our youtube channels as well your guys youtube channels are the same tips out baby stay safe tv Mine is the same as well as fan tv And uh this classic cast if you missed the beginning of this podcast before we move into q&a We'll be moving or i'll be posting this uh on youtube in the next couple of days. Yeah, yeah, sorry. I'm growing boy. Sorry But yeah, no, so so let's go ahead and move into a q&a and uh I'll go ahead and pick out the first question here Okay, this is I think this is a good question. I like we don't know the answer to this right, but I think this is something interesting to bring up uh Paraladen says we'll feel the view be fixed in classic and for those of you guys who don't know Classic while I was made vanilla while the 1.12 client All this still was made at time whenever the standard was not these these nice 16 by 9 even 21 by 9 these these nice 4k monitors and A lot of people were using these 4 by 3 crt still and feel the view Basically meaning how much stuff you can fit on your screen is Designed for a 4 by 3 monitor So whenever you play in 16 by 9 If you play if you open up the 1.12 client right now And you and you log into your character and then you take your Retail character and you put them in the exact same spot And I think this is something that they did in wrath of the lich king I think in wrath of the lich king they fix this But if you were to take another character and put them both in the exact same spot stacked right on top of each other You'll notice how much more stuff fits on your screen You're not necessarily zoomed out, but there's just more on the screen like your monitor is covering a greater area um Is this something? Is this something that uh, it's going to be fixed? I don't know. Is this something that's going to be changed. I don't know This is one of those things that whenever we talked about uh, we've talked about this in the other in the other podcast Whenever they said that they're basically going to strip down the current game This is one of those things that I wouldn't be surprised to see them basically, uh Adjust for the times accommodate for the times and and there's just nicer monitors now And uh, it just make it compatible with the current monitors that you have now Yeah, I mean It sounds like it's going to affect like things like world pvp a lot probably um devil's sore farming I mean basically you can see more now right that that's what's going on on like the modern client You can see more on your on your screen. Is that correct that spam? Uh, yeah, basically Yep. Yeah, so I know recently they uh, they opened up that software engineering position Whose goal is to kind of take the uh, the new client game and kind of graphically change it So it looks exactly like vanilla did back in the day or at least those were the requirements of that position Something like this. Hopefully it would be covered by that position, but like you said it might slip through I mean, there's so many small things that are probably going to slip through from the client downport That they'll probably have to address during beta if they're significant enough Um, I hope they do that. I hope they have a long enough beta to kind of address all these issues But so I was gonna say imagine if they just take their low resolution gameplay back And they like and they stretch it out on your monitor and your Pretty bad pretty bad I see a question here about transmog. Do you think that that uh transmog would ruin or have a negative impact on classic? Wow, I I have a strong opinion, but what do you guys have to say about that? Um, actually go ahead. Go ahead tips. I do have a good opinion on this too. So believe it or not I don't think transmog would affect classic very much at all and the reason I say that In classic wow one of the great parts about classic when it came from like a progression standpoint You didn't just progress from a power standpoint your numbers didn't just go up as you got higher level Your gear starts to look better like an example is like in scarlet monastery at like your mid-level 30s That's like the first dungeon where the gear you get starts to look pretty cool And then like as you get to the end game, you know the end game gear looks pretty cool And the tier sets look even cooler and you don't just get this power progression You also get like a physical armor gear look progression But that also happens in classic So even if transmog were in classic, of course, I don't want it to be in classic But even if it were I feel like nobody would use it because the gear that you get at the end game Objectively looks better than the gear that you get in the early game So the only way I can see people using transmog is uh is like maybe to make their sets more uniform or something like that But if somebody has tier two gear You'd already know they're a good player So even if they use transmog to complete their tier two set just like visually You already know they're a good player because they are in you know, bw at the time and stuff like that But I don't think transmog would have that adverse of an effect on classic Honestly, so for me, uh, I actually disagree. Um, I disagree. I think that uh, so i'm a big i'm a big, uh I'm a big pvp guy, right? I'm a big pvp guy and in Classic wow and vanilla wow Kind of going back to what we're talking about in burning crusade too. There's certain things that stick out to you And whenever you're looking at a player, right? I click on his portrait And I see him running at me and I see his helmet from the portrait He might have his helmet hidden I see his shoulders because they stick out. I see his weapon And if I see an orc warrior and he's got his rank 14 shoulders and he's got his, uh High warlords axe and if I see that guy coming at me I can identify that guy and I can be like frick. I'm I'm I'm about to get effed like I got to be careful you know what I mean And this is one of those things that when it comes to pvp play whenever it comes to competitive play I think it really really does affect the gameplay from that perspective. I can look at a guy's gear and I can kind of As you become a more experienced player, you're able to decipher Uh, how a guy's gonna play you're going to be able to predict how a guy's going to play Decipher his build see how he does certain things I mean, I've done it on screen before and I know paladins better than than any other class, right? So I've watched old pvp videos of paladins and I've looked at their gear. I've seen what abilities they've used I've looked at like how long their buff duration is and and I and I basically say, okay This is their spec boom boom boom boom boom boom boom, right? And I'll and I'll load up a talent calculator and I'll show them what their spec probably is And then at the end of the video, you know videos I've never seen before at the end of the video It shows the spec it shows the the talent tree and it's like 95 plus percent right and it's like you're you're able to do that in Vanilla wow once you become an experienced enough player and and really get to see What people are coming at you with so so I really uh, I really do think transmora transmog does affect the gameplay in a sense I actually yeah in the pvp sense. I absolutely agree with you hundred percent That was a great point In pve mode or just like outside in the world I just can't imagine people using transmog in the vanilla the game isn't really set up to reward people for using transmog Because in general, I mean gear it just takes so long to get Why would you transmog your gear at the end game? It took so long to get and on top of that It does look a lot more detailed than lower level gear. So that's kind of how I look at it Yeah, I can tell you why I mean what are the most expensive transmogs in the game right now? They are Empowered female transmogs right those and they're all from vanilla. Well, it would have it would have economic implications It would have player behavior implications as you'd have transmog farming groups So it you would mess up the economy Um, and also like I think there's a big argument to be made for Have you ever heard the saying in order to appreciate like the sunny days you have to experience the rainy days right In order to appreciate looking like a bad ass You have to spend a lot of time looking like an idiot And I want everyone to look like an idiot because that means like who here I remember I remember playing burn crusade and there was a warlock. My guild wasn't in black temple yet There was a warlock that would they would set afk and in chat wrath And he was in fold tier six. I was 12 years old. I went up and I took a screenshot I screenshot his I inspected him. I took a screenshot And I might as like I looked at it like every day because it motivated It motivated me so much to see this guy that looks so cool Now look at myself and I look like a freaking idiot like that was one of my driving motivators To play and be successful at the game And a few people transmogging like I don't know. I think I think it devalues the importance of gear transmog does a lot I I agree in general like Transmog devalues gear I just can't find like if I got you know tier three dreadnought I cannot see myself ever transmogging that to like club mocks. You know what? I mean or something like I just I just can't you know But but I do agree that like in general in principle I completely agree transmog is horrible for the game But just the way vanilla functions Aside from pvp purposes. I can't really see it Being a feature a lot of people would use but maybe that's just me Okay, I kind of want to go to a little bit of twitter a little bit twitter here. Um, let's start looking and uh Okay, this is good. I want to hear what you guys think about this This is from chris tiber at chris tiber Do you think do you think taran mill and south shore will be the dominant world pvp battlefield in classic like it was in vanilla Although battlefield shifted to brm and sylathis at times What do you guys think about this? Can you repeat that question? Do we think that taran mill and south shore is going to be the dominant world pvp battlefield in classic? just like it wasn't vanilla and Although battlefields did shift to brm sylathis at times kind of based on what patch and world events and stuff I guess it depends on the honor system and when they uh, when they include the honor system If they launch with the honor system, which is something that was kind of indicated in that water cooler update Then we might not see taran mill or south shore at all at least not in the sense that it was back in the day You'll still see it while you're leveling because when you're in hills brat You're just going to come across the enemy faction But uh, but we'll have that same, you know Everybody's there everybody's farming honor in that location or pvp in that location Possibly not depending on when they implement the honor system and when they implement bg I think it has a lot more to do with when there's bgs because if there's an honor system, you know In vanilla there's for those who didn't know there was an honor system for a couple months And there were no bgs and then a couple months later they added bgs So people wanted honor. Yo, we got to rank up. What's the best place that has the most uptime to farm honor? Well, uh, it was a taran taran over south shore and so that's where people were I think Probably I think actually black rock mountain is is a better pvp spot than that even Um, but yeah, it depends on if there's an honor system And uh, and of course when when bgs come out, absolutely And then also it'll shift it'll shift to uh to a dire mall as well Who here's been running into dire mall to go to dire mall west or something and there's a gang squad hiding around the corner So annoying dude, I don't know how many times People are freaking late to raid myself included because we're getting their buffs at the last second and some freaking You know, whatever five-man group is sitting there to kill one guy because they're just trying to scratch and claw for every single Piece of honor they can get Yep, you should get dishonorable kills for that No, no for real. I mean, that's the game, right? That's the game and uh, it's just that's just the way it is Like it's there's certain hot spots, right? I think the reason taran mill taran mill whatever you want to call it I think there's a reason The uh, the area between that and south shore is so popular is there's a big range of levels that go there for quests Uh, it's a it's a big area that you have to pass through, you know If you're trying to get to chill one point for the alliance You have the under city up here and then you have iron forge It's basically like it's a little bit closer to under city But it's it's kind of like the midway point between the under city and iron forge So it's a pretty active hub. It's a pretty active area And just the fact that you have two alliance and horde towns Uh, pretty close in proximity to one another. It just makes for like a good world pup setup and I don't know. I think it's going to be popular. It's something that's more popular while leveling The thing is at higher levels If a higher level goes there You're mostly going to be finding lower levels to kill them and you're not really getting any honor for it So usually if you're doing it, you're just kind of Just kind of doing it to kill so like you're out for blood But like a lot of times people are trying to grind on her and then that's a case where they would be in uh Like like you said stay safe be in dire mall Being black rock mountain stuff like that where they're going to know they're going to see higher levels who are worth more honor Yeah, because people higher levels are going to naturally be there. They're trying to do their dungeon runs or You'll go snipe a guild go into black rock mount or go into a molten core or something like that. Yeah There's a lot more high level traffic in those areas Mm-hmm Do any tips do you want to pick out a question you haven't picked one out yet? Yeah, sure. Um See Uh, I'll I'll take a minute if any of you guys see another one. I'm going to read some of these on twitter real quick. Okay Okay, well, uh, nays asked this question a couple times Thoughts about adding arenas and rbgs is potential 1.13 content for pvp servers Well, I think if they do anything like I think if they do anything to the game It needs to be done to the game right unless it's like a specific functionality of pvp versus pve But as far as like adding arenas and rbgs and stuff go In in like a classic plus I don't think uh, I don't think that's the kind of thing that works for vanilla, right? vanilla is vanilla and uh I mean rbgs to a little bit less extent But it's kind of like what I was saying about fraction pride earlier where you're end up you end up getting matched against alliance versus alliance Uh, but arena is like you're you're basically just sitting there You're you're sitting there and you're stuck inside of the city or you're doing whatever you can and you're just uh, You're just not porting but you're queuing right you're queuing you go to an arena and you do your thing I know for me like whatever i'm doing arena is a lot of times i'm running in circles around dalaran I'm not really being hyper productive outside of the arenas. So arena. I talked to the chat whatever I queue up whatever And that's just what I do and if i'm not on stream i'm running around dalaran anyway and just talking to my teammates and having a good time so That's one of those things that whenever they add that into the game Hypothetically if they were to add something like that into the game you're taking away You're taking people out you're taking players out of the world and you're putting them into this instance You're putting them into Whatever so if people want to get honor if you want to get whatever They need to go out in the world if they want to go farm mats for raid if they want to go do herbalism If they want to go do mining whatever they want to do they have to go out into the world That's kind of the whole point of the deal. That's that's the whole point of the game is is world of warcraft, right? Yeah, you're you're taking the world out of warcraft and and I think that's something that's Not particularly good for classic wow specifically Yeah, right i'm not a big fan of cues. I mean if you ask like 95 of people that are out in Something and wow Hey, what are you doing? It's because of a it's because of a scarcity of resources They're trying they're on their way to a dungeon to get gear. They're trying to farm honor They're they're they're they're farming mobs or they're on it on the way to a dungeon to go farm gold inside of a dungeon Or farming mobs in the open world scarcity of resources of vanilla. I was like a really really big deal, especially scarcity of gold and That that desire that constant grind is what gets people out and doing things and engaging with other players engaging with With the world around them as well The second you add cues or stuff like that I mean, this is a big problem in retail you end up with people afk in the city complaining. They don't have anything to do I I completely agree Um, I've got a question here from brice martin But I kind of want to flip it on its head. He's asking what retail features Would you be okay with blizzard integrating into classic wow? I think I know the answer to that from you guys But uh, let's flip it on its head. What what one classic feature Would you like to see in retail and I kind of want to ask the chat that too Like what's the one classic feature the one vanilla wow feature? You guys would like to see in the modern game and yeah, like what do you guys think? Hmm if I had to pick one I'd probably pick one raid difficulty to be honest one raid difficulties are really good one Uh talent system is a good one Now you can't do it exactly like in classic because there's too many levels Uh The amount of levels The the amount of levels would be a good one. I think I think the concept of a level squish is uh I don't think it's completely insane In the future of retail. Wow. I don't think that's something completely insane to do a level squish, but um Yeah, I think man, there's there's a lot to choose from um Talent tree is a good one talent tree is a good one One raid difficulty is a really good one. I would say get get rid of cross realm everything I'd I'd rather have I'd rather have four. I'd rather have 10 raid difficulties than have cross realm anything get rid of cross From everything no sharding no phasing no cross realm. That is the one most detrimental thing that they've done in this game in my opinion Yeah, I think uh I think that's a good one flying's another good one. There's a lot of good ones, man There's a lot of good things in uh or lack of flying. I should say no flying Uh, I don't know. All right. So is there going to be flying on the new uh on the new continents in bfa? Or not at all. I think they're gonna replicate they're gonna replicate the legion system Basically no flying in the beginning then the pathfinder achiever progressively unlocks. I'm pretty sure Right, right. Yeah. So yeah I think deep down probably blizzard If they could go back in time, I bet they would have never added flying I think they regret it like I really think they do for the last three expansions or less two plus bfa Uh, they're time gating it by a year or something I I think they have realized that it it really undermines a lot of People's interaction with other players world pbp with with the engagement with the world around them I think they have done the most that can possibly do to get rid of it without people You know having rides in the street Yeah And people are pretty they're already pretty close when they announced uh what they were going to do with legion I remember people being really upset about it, but yeah, I agree. I wish they never added it Yep, I hate it. I hate flying It's scary, dude. He gets he got a Fred hides not good. Not good. Yeah. What if what if you fall down? Yeah Dude, you might with your freaking net-o-matic, dude Sniping people out of there that honestly, dude in war mode like that's That was one of the most exciting things that happened uh in the last few days is seeing that warlock and just Friggin like I'm shooting skeet dude. It was it was unreal. It was awesome. But uh, but uh, yeah Uh, let's see. So we have uh Let's do let's do one or two more questions One or two more questions, uh Let's let me let me check twitter. Let's take a look here Tweet a hashtag class cast guys by the way. Do you want to answer your question? Um If they added cross room bg's do you think they should have cross realm? Sorry, if they do you think they'd have You think that they should have cross room from the get-go or added later on They should do it if they're gonna do it do it how they did it in my opinion In vanilla where they added cross realm and patch 1.12 Yeah, I think anything cross room even cross room bg's Really starts to undermine and degrade any sense of server community Yeah I think uh so I have my beef with with cross realm and uh, just so people know I think this is a common misconception Cross room was added in patch 1.12 like the battle groups were added in 1.12 and uh You know, it's so it's technically vanilla But that's kind of like the one thing that I I really hope we don't see and More realistically don't have to see we talked about it in one of the really early classic casts Maybe it was the the first or second one even and stay safe brought up a really good point because I'm I do not like cross room, right? I think it's something that It's good for It's good for streaming, right? I it's good for streaming You can play with other streamers You can do big viewer raids people who are on whatever server it can can come up and queue up and play with you I get that but uh as far as Is it something that's good for the game in the environment of the game the community of the game? I think that uh I think that's something that uh, maybe not so much, but Stay safe brought up the fact that it might be a necessary evil Something that you might have to deal with if servers start to die out because that's essentially what happened There were servers that started to die got really low population or they became very very alliance or horde heavy and what they ended up having to do Was because alliance was getting instant queues and horde was getting like freaking 30 minute queues They were like, okay Well, we're gonna come up with battle groups and take the highest the most heavily populated horde servers And mash them up with heavily populated alliance servers and mix and match so that everyone has like an equal amount of queues Could it be a necessary evil We'll see even then I would I would prefer a server mergers over cross realm. I would do you might lose your name That's scary, but I think you're right. I would too Um, yeah, I I definitely prefer surgery server mergers. I think blizzard is scared to merge servers because of the negative connotation It's like, oh my god, it's the game dying sort of thing, you know I know a lot of games in the past that I followed have been very, you know, scared of merging servers for that very reason It's not a marketing. It's not very marketable, but like everybody knows classic is gonna do well And like it's okay. Just merge the servers if they're dying I don't understand like with world of warcraft. There is no negative connotation Servers are naturally going to lose population Blizzard just merged the servers if they're dying, please like I don't understand why it's so complicated Yeah, but um to the question about cross realm bg's I'm the same camp with with stay safe and that's fan. I'm not a fan But I've been talking to some to some pvpers recently some high level vanilla pvpers And they're actually the total opposite. They're in the completely different direction They say they want cross realm some of them from day one And or battle groups or whatever And the reason they say they want that is not just because of queue times But also because of things like queue dodging And and people queuing up and dodging other premades to make sure that you know Essentially they can deny other premades honor by dodging certain queues and it actually has a very negative impact on the game Now this could be a case of of something affecting the top 1 of players And should necessarily be applicable to everybody else, but I do think it's an interesting topic I mean the idea of Have you know if you have a 3000 population server and just a couple of premades going at it You know could could a couple of premades queue dodging just destroy the entire pvp system Is that something you want to make it to live? I don't know. I don't know much about the subject, but it's definitely it's an interesting topic of discussion Mm-hmm No, I think that's good. I think that's really good. Um Let's take uh, let's take one last question Let's take one last question. Uh, do you guys have anything that sticks out to you? I see a question about uh eight debuff slots Do we think eight debuff slots or 16 later on is a healthy mechanic? Uh, the question is worded. What do you guys think about that? Healthy as far as like changing it goes like mid mid game Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure what he means by that. Yeah, I mean, I think I think that's something that is probably not gonna get changed I think that It does affect the game, but they are going off of 1.12 base and we'll see how it goes But I think it's more than likely they'll come out with 16 debuff slots right off the bat I mean, it just goes goes back to I've been saying this for months The importance of the classic beta alpha whatever you want to call it. I think it's huge I think everyone will why do you need it if they're saying they're gonna keep it as no change as possible Why do you need it? Well? I think they absolutely need it because they're gonna have to test stuff make sure everything's up and running properly But also stuff like getting real legitimate data, right? Okay guys this week, you know whoever's in the alpha, where's in the beta, you know, whatever it is We're gonna go and we're gonna test molten core with eight debuff slots next week. We're gonna test it with 16 debuff slots Okay, we're gonna test it with The original vanilla values for all the the boss health and everything and we're going with 1.12 talents Okay, this week. We're gonna test it with a little bit buffed boss health and stuff And now let's compare and contrast the the kill times. Let's see this. Let's see that Is is it trivial with 1.12 talents? Is there's this is there that a lot of the stuff like behind the scenes A lot of the stuff like under the hood. That's really what I should say. It's it's under the hood type stuff I think they got a they really got to look at a lot of that kind of stuff And I think the alpha or beta or whatever they end up deciding to put out, you know, whatever they want to call it I think that's something that's very important And they've got to be very very intentional with uh with all their research they do there Yeah, yeah The beta has to be prolonged man. There's so many things you have to test I mean things like the field of view thing you mentioned us in Like how many hundreds of those small graphical, you know discrepancies are you going to have to make sure it don't exist Beyond that, like you said the tuning the scaling I mean, we know they're they said they're going to use patch 112 one as a basis, but Patch 112 one ragnaros looks very different than patch 1.1 ragnaros You know what? I mean, we don't even know what versions of the bosses they're going to use when they launch the raids I mean all of that stuff has to be tested and it might take six months It might take eight months. I have no idea what to get But it would be much better to test things In a long over a long period of time than to launch the game and potentially just just really scuff it up But yeah Definitely a beta and alpha is very important. Every time I mentioned beta or alpha There's always one guy that's like dude the game's already made like just There is a ton they have to do. There's a ton Yeah, I think there's a lot to be said um But for us today guys, uh, I think that's uh, that's all we have time for I know uh, I know I got to get going and uh I want to go ahead real quick one more time Please please please Hit us with follows hit us with some follows. Excuse me tips out, baby. Stay safe TV On twitch on youtube and then the twitters all the handles are down there below for all of us Please hit them with some follows um I Will be I will not be doing my normal stream after this today. I will be going to do I'll be on Raj Patel stream. He'll be doing something called Raj Royale if you guys want to see me over there The he's doing like some voting you off the island type top type of thing podcast whatever So I'm gonna need your guys support if you guys want to go and spam those s-fan tv spam those classic emotes Maybe maybe some some tips out in ss tv. No changes. Maybe but uh, I'm gonna need your guys support there I'll be hosting tips tips is going to continue his stream if you guys want to go straight to tips channel after this and uh Stay safe. You'll be streaming this evening, right? Yeah, I'm gonna take it from tips. Yeah, so stay safe. We'll be streaming this evening And uh, I'll be on train wrecks scuffed podcast after Raj's thing. So, uh, I'll be streaming again tomorrow I'll do a nice long stream tomorrow. So, uh, again Thank you. Thank you. Thank you guys Thank you guys so much for joining us. Had a great time today Is this number 10? This is number 10. This is number 10. It's number 10 Wow, that's crazy Pips, you want to go ahead and go live? I'll shut it off and we'll see you guys later Yeah, thank you guys. Take it easy shower stream next week Uh, am I live hold on how's this gonna work hold on ones