 I'm here today with Gerard Powell, the founder of Rhythmia. Jerry, thank you so much for sitting down with me. Thank you for having me, Jordan. I love your work. Thank you. I love yours. I truly do. So I wanted to stand with you today and talk about spiritual business. One of the last times I was here, I had this whole transformation of my own professionality doing the work that I do and rising up in my own company to be a more professional leader. And so I've been taking a lot of time to learn about money and spirituality and spiritual business and I thought there's really no better person to talk about for spiritual business than you. So right off the bat, one of the biggest criticisms and complaints that I've received from people is money and spirituality don't go together, you know, and I've got that in spades from the spirit science audience. And I'm pretty sure that you've experienced a little bit of that too. And I wanted to ask you, like, how do you address that? What do you say to people who have that belief? I disagree completely, you know, of course. But we as a race have not evolved to the point yet where we will just contribute money to a particular thing, ad infinitum, without anything from it. It doesn't happen. If you see it in Christianity, they're out there pounding the pavement to get money. If you send us money, you'll get into heaven, send us money, you'll get into heaven. That's the worst way of running a spiritual business. And the truth of it is, there is no way to get out of the non-soul business. There's not. Whether you're selling a car, a house, baking a cookie, making somebody lunch, it's all soul-serving souls. That's all it is. So any time that someone says, well, I have to do this different because I'm in a spiritual business, now you're f***ing with the nature of the universe. It's not true, right? Because if everything is a spiritual business, then what comes into play? Spiritual principles and business principles shouldn't be different, shouldn't be. So if you really see a good businessman, he's a guy that completely understands spirituality. And those are businesses that flourish. Trying to shortchange people, being terrible to employees, that's not the thing. So as long as you're operating in integrity, then you're being a good spiritual businessman. I like that. That's true. Yeah, it reminded me of the hermetic principle that all is one, a part of the same cause of mind. So there's no separation between anything. How could you be different than it? You can't. And the problems in the world come from us believing we're separate. Absolutely. And that's split of the soul. I loved being polls on Instagram. And a month or two ago, I asked the audience, I was like, money is, and one was like energy and the other was root of all evil. And it was like pretty 50-50. But just the other day, as sort of a New Year celebration, I took a picture here and I shared it and it was spiritual business is needed or wrong. And it was like 88% was needed. And it was like the whole energy shifted, like people were getting it. So I wanted to get, I want to ask you, why is spiritual business so needed in this world today? Oh my God. And it was a really conscious moment. Well, if we take a look at it and say, okay, every carnal desire can be achieved in business. Right? You can go to prostitution, you can go to gambling, you can go to alcohol. You can walk into any city. You don't have to be in Las Vegas. You can walk into New York. You can walk into any city in the world and have all of these things done for you. But what is there for your spirit? What is there? Really, you've got to go so far out of your way. In other words, a lot of people are coming from Canada to go to Costa Rica, right? To have something to address their spirit. There should be, it's just what's right and I'm going to tell you what. The kids are waking up. When I say the kids, people your age and younger are out there. Actively, there's a thirst for the knowledge of spiritual knowledge and it's not everywhere. Like, you've really got to search to find these places to feed your soul. So when I got to Los Angeles and there was a gapé, I was like, thank God, like a place to feed my soul. You can get your carnal desires fixed all over Los Angeles. You can't get your soul. There's not enough of it. And I'm saying, not in the dogmatic organized way. That's everywhere. That's in every corner. I can go to a Roman Catholic church or I can find a synagogue or I can get the dog one. But I can't get the feeding of the soul. Look at, in 1935, when you were 11 years old in a field raking and your whole family was there and are in a mine chipping away coal, feeding your spiritual needs was not way high on the list. So as we evolve and progress as a race, and we are, even though everybody says we're not, the progression has been monumental. Tremendous. Yeah. And actually, we're flying into progress, and that progress creates time. And that time creates wonder, and that wonder creates the need to know. You made me think of too, it's like, you're voting with your money, with your investments. And so it's like, if you're spending all of your money on video games and alcohol and that kind of stuff, like that's what you're creating. Absolutely. And if you're investing in spiritual business or spiritual practices and services that feed your soul, that's what you create. So one of the, I know kind of continuing on this too with the spiritual business is like, in and amongst the comments, I was actually, I'm very grateful, so I'm gonna say thank you to everybody watching for the comments on Our Miracles Real, because most of them were like so good and loving and understanding and positive. There were a few people who were, you know, just had that immediate reaction of like, well, this is just a businessman who's, you know, using the shamanic ceremonies to make money and stuff like that. And this was amazing because I've both taken this to the medicine and I've talked with some other people here. And the message I keep getting from the universe is that this isn't even your business. This is the medicine's doing. Guaranteed. This is the plant medicine who was like, Jerry, I will use you to build this amazing place. I always say this, you know, the medicine woke up one day and said, give me a sucker with money and like, no shit. Yeah. I'm not kidding you. Who knows how to run a business? Like, give me that guy, because I'm not a spiritual leader. I'm not a thought leader. I'm not. I'm just a guy that had some wild shit happen to him and was able to be in a position to be able to create a facility that doesn't for other people. That's it. That's what I am. So, so beautiful. I'm crystal clear about who I am. You've done it so well and I just want to say from my heart to yours and this whole space, like you can feel that like all of the resources that you've, that has been created through the place has been used to make the place more and more immaculate and, and like every person who works here, every shaman, every helper, every, everyone is like at such a high level of love and compassion and care. And every time I come just week after week, you show up, everyone shows up in complete service and it's so, so beautiful. So thank you for making this place. Oh, thanks for saying it. Thank you. Yeah. I'm wondering if you have any advice for people dealing with like, you know, I've had both in my life, you know, like when I started making money with spirit science and stuff like that. I got a lot of backlash. I've heard that from a few other people who were involved with or making money with spirituality and like their friends or other people in the spiritual community would get really angry with them. And just for like personal health, do you have any advice for dealing with negative people? Sure. Yeah. You just say, okay, then you do it for free. So easy. It shuts them right off. That's actually, that's actually, I'm doing it for, you do it for free then and show me how to do that. It's true. I mean, so simple. I can't, I can't imagine this place existing without the resources necessary listen to facilitate it. It costs almost $11 million a year to keep this place open. So that's amazing. So it is going to pony up a billion dollars to like to keep this open for a hundred years. Right. You show me who? Show me the guy who's going to say, well, wait, you know, like, let's see if Bill Gates will do it. He just checked this office list as the biggest no ever. Well, unless he actually came here, I agree. But yeah, and I'm with you. Let's hope. Let's pray. I think somebody would even do it for 10 years. Show me you guys going to put up 110 million, throw it away so that a place like this can stay open for 10 years. Yeah. It's very, you're talking few and far between at best. I don't think there's a person on the planet that would do. I tell you this, it cost me, I went upside down 10 million dollars to do this. There aren't too many of us around that this level that are going to do shit like that. I know. No, totally. And actually, I want to, just as I'm speaking to this too, is like, there have been people who, you know, in the comments in the movie and whatnot who were upset that, you know, it costs, you know, some money to come here. Yeah. And at the same time, like, after being here, I'm like, I would pay that every time. It is so worth it for this complete transformational experience. But it's one of those, like, you have to take a leap of faith. Yeah. Because, you know, you see all the comments and everything, but you don't really know and understand until you fully experience it. And then you're like, worth it. Like that was so valuable. So, you know, you're creating this sort of this vortex for people to facilitate it staying open. People come here, they invest in themselves, they experience these profound life-transforming experiences. And then this place can thrive as a result of it, right? Yes. And that's beautiful so that you can make it better and better and better. And that's what we try to do. I'd like to tell you, if there was some way to do this for less money, I'd be the first one to do it. But as soon as I try to compromise the service end, then the rest of it falls with it. And the thing is, it's really hard. How do you, you know, and these people, and I'll be honest, we pay two to three times as much as the normal wage in Costa Rica. That's beautiful. And I love doing it. I love doing it because, number one, these people are with us for life. And honestly, because, you know, the job's irreplaceable. And not only that, though, we get to source the most amazing people. Well, in order to do that, you have to charge money. Somebody has to pay the 135 families that are working here. Somebody has to pay them. They're not going to do it for free. And they're not, nobody's going to do this for free. Right. And you have people working here from all over, and like lots of people from Costa Rica, there's people from America, people from Brazil. Absolutely. And, you know, people, sometimes they, you know, they look at you and they're like, well, he's just a white guy and it's all just Americans doing this. And it's like, no, there's people from all over, like most of the people work here from Costa Rica. 99% of the people are Costa Ricans. That's beautiful. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. Speaking to money, you know, a lot of my audience, especially the spiritual community, I think in general, has struggled with money. And, you know, it's always like spiritual people are often broke. Yes. And so what can people do right now to shift their vibration towards money? The first thing they have to do is understand that money is not bad. That's what, I believe, you know, people have a psychological block that they think, oh, you know, money is the source of all evil. And that's a Bible quote, right? But they think it. Yeah. And it's super hard to think that and acquire it at the same time. The hardest thing for people to do is to realize that that statement is factually incorrect. Money was the source of all progress. If it weren't for capitalism, which is a bad word right now, all of this progress that we've seen in the past few hundred years would not be, would not be. People wouldn't be living longer than ever before. Wages wouldn't be higher than they were ever before. All of this progress, medicine, take a look at everything, technology. That's all based out of out of this. What is money is energy. It's all money is its energy. It's a condensed point of energy, money is a condensed point of energy. If you can come to grips with that and then make a deal with the university, you're going to do the right things with your money. That's the other thing. So like if you're if you're getting money to pleasure yourself, then money is a bad thing. But if I have, if I'm accumulating assets or having assets so that I can number one, have a kinder, gentler retirement, that's a beautiful thing. But number two, if I'm if I'm doing it to to help people, then holy God, what a great source. So what I'm saying is that the gun can be used to save the village or the gun can be used for robbery. It's not the gun doesn't know. Yeah. So the thing is the intention. It's the intention behind the money. And if the intention is right, you're right. The spiritual community is my community. And I've never seen people struggle with money more in the spiritual community than any other sub community. They struggle with money because they think it's wrong to have. Right. It's that ingrained belief that came from just thousands of years ago. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of these things and stuff. So this is kind of part two of the similar same question. But then what would be what is the best way to make money in alignment with a spiritual practice or spirituality? So my thing with that is that if we can visualize what we're going to do with the money, you can get completely bypassed that it's bad. I'm going to get money so that I can start my church. I'm going to get money so that I can help people. I'm going to get money so I can give it away and feed the poor. Like there's so many simple ways. And the problem with it is it has to be the truth or you're not going to buy it. So what does that mean? That means that when you say, hey, I'm going to tithe or I'm going to, and I don't mean tithe in the conventional sense of giving the money to a dogmatic religion, that's not it. But to make a deal that I'm going to tithe this money, I'm going to give 20% of the money that I make away to these endeavors. Once you do that, then you're in flow. It's all OK. It doesn't matter what you're doing. It can be, I don't know, a taxidermist. I don't care. Whatever you have to do to make a living, as long as you're doing it in love, that you love doing it and that you have a free, agreed upon plan and deal with the universe. So what does that mean? That means you write out a letter. And it says that on this day, I, Jerry Powell, promise myself, my God, my universe, however you believe, that as I do this new endeavor, and as it makes $100,000 a year, I'm going to give 20,000 of it away. As it makes a million, I'm going to give 200,000. As it makes 10 million, and you make a deal and you sign it. That's a contract with the universe. It's a real contract. And now you're off the hook. Now you're in participation. Right, right. Super simple and easy. Beautiful. Yeah, it's real. So just giving. It's just about giving. It's all it is, dude. Yeah, that's all we're doing. OK, so my last question is, you know, we just entered 2020. And you made a beautiful post on Facebook, which I loved. And you were talking about the shift in transformation that you've been through in this place and everything. And at the end, you wrote that 2020 is the start of what will forever be known as the decade of the shift. I believe that. And can you just elaborate and talk more about that? So I really believe this to be true. And the medicine confirmed this with me. We haven't noticed it. But we've been in this shift. Progress has made the shift. Donald Trump is making the shift. Because he's shining a light on our differences. This is all culminating to this decade, when and this is the funniest thing. In the stock market, there is a saying, when your hairdresser starts talking to you about stocks, it's over. In other words, once everybody is invested in the stock market, it's time to get out of the stock market. My thing is this is that what the 20s are going to be is the realization by the masses that we are in the shift. See, most people are still so polarized. Most folks do not believe we're in the shift. Most folks, if you turn on Fox News or CNN or whatever, they believe that the sky is falling. People are killing each other more than they ever have. There's more fear, lack, and limitation. There's scarcity. There's distance. They're still in this thing. But this will be the decade of the truth. And the truth is, these are the least violent times of the last 5,000 years. People are living longer than ever before. Economies are expanding. Wages are increasing. Poverty is decreasing. Oh, wait, what does that mean? Right. That means that we're shifting. It's like the perspective itself also creates it. Correct. Because if you start thinking, oh, wages are increasing, poverty is decreasing, and then you start playing in that reality, then the next thing you know, you start earning resources. You start being healthy. Absolutely. Yeah, because of the way that you're looking at it. So what does the medicine ask us to do, Jordan? It asks us to be in truth. Those things that I just said are absolutely the truth. They're not positive or they're not negative. I'm not inranding it. I'm just telling you, this is the truth. This realization can't be hidden for long. Politicians want to say this. It's f***ed. I can fix it. And they said, no. Then the Democrats say, no, it's f***ed because of you. We can fix it. And then there's a smoke screen occurs. And then everybody believes it's f***ed. And nobody can fix it. And the exact opposite is true, that things are working. And that message can't be hidden for, this is the, so when I say the shift, the 20s will be an awareness of everyone, that things are okay. Once that happens, it makes things better and better and better. So this is like, this is a beautiful time. And Donald Trump was a key instrument in this. Key, couldn't be done without him. He's a real help to the, to every side. He really is, people don't get it. I can see that. Just from the, if you're triggered, there's something for you to look at. If you like him, there's something for you to look at. It's facilitating change of awareness, dialogue and conversation. And all these groups that are offended that nobody even knew we're there. It's giving a platform to a bunch of people who are underserved in respect and understanding and all this stuff. They're all surfacing, yeah. So like we get to hear things that under other administrations, we wouldn't have been ever heard. And so it's interesting stuff. I've had, just as a sort of a final funny thought here is I've had people ask me like, well, a lot of people saying, don't ever get involved in politics because it's spirituality and those don't go again. That's a whole nother half an hour conversation, right? But then I have had people ask like, well, what is your stance on politics? And I'm like, it's really simple. Their left wing and the right wing are part of the same bird. And I believe that completely. That's it. That's the whole thing. Completely. Completely. You need both of them to fly. And you do, and there's somewhere in there there's truth to and neither of them are in it. But in the middle of that, there is truth. So like if you just see what the truth is and we've been so lucky on it because of capitalism because a lot of things that happened, yeah? Technology that came about as a result of capitalism, right? Has now made us aware of what the consequences of our own actions. So all of a sudden people are being repressed and people are going, no, no, no, because we know about it before you'd never know about it. And so with access to the truth, nobody wants to hurt anybody else. Right. So I mean, those are all the questions that I have. Fantastic. In closing, do you have any final thoughts of just anything that's come up? No, I just say that life's hard enough without feeling guilty about making a living. Like there's enough problems in life. Like you have to address family situations and health and all these problems. But then to throw on top of it, I'm making a living and then therefore I've guilt over that. There's enough, there's enough doing it's just something that people don't need. And I think we're going to evolve out of it. I do. I agree. I really do. Because it's ridiculous, yeah. Well, Jerry, thank you so much for sitting down and going over this. Fantastic. This was an amazing journey. Love to have you, Jordan. I love you. Amazing. You're my man. You're my man.