 The meeting will now come to order Hello everyone. Welcome to International Women's Day and our panel on unconscious bias It gives me great honor and privilege to introduce our director general mr. Romano, please Good afternoon everyone. I'm very pleased to attend this meeting After I became a Gender champion I picked up the new habit of Counting the representation of men and women in the meeting and this meeting certainly satisfies the standard On the top of that Participation is some at the highest in these meetings in the past years and I really Congratulate you for that. I became the director general of the IAA eight years ago and I tried to increase the proportion of women on the Agents I agent staff the paramount consideration is to recruit the employees of the highest standards of efficiency technical competence and integrity This is on the requirement of the statute If that is the case we should attract the best qualified women if we do not so Because of the unconscious bias, which is the theme today We simply miss the opportunity as bias narrows the talent pool the record of our efforts in the past eight years shows some concrete result When I came and the representation of women. I was a 20 percent I mean a P and above was 22 percent and now it is a 29 percent the representation of women at D and above is almost the same 28 percent and Some this is some some significant achievement, but more needs to be done for sure My short term goal is to achieve equal representation at the most senior level stuff by 2021 it is needed because Now we have only one DDG very Alice and some in the past There has been no Female director general and there has been even no candidates If my recollection is correct It is doable Because under my current capacity I travel more than 20 countries every every year and I Encounter very capable women everywhere and also There are many talented women are in the IEA secretariat too so we have the pool of very capable women Outside and inside the agency and with the support and understanding from the member states achieving the equal representation of women at the highest level of the IEA is doable certainly our Objective is equal representation at P and above not only limited to the highest level of Of more stuff, but P and above and I'm optimistic when I Visit countries I always some encounter very Capable women, but mainly unfortunately in younger generation For example recently I visited three African countries and three Asian countries in Zambia I visited the cancer hospital and most of them oncologist Nuclear physicists were women and there was a very capable Oncologist who was leading on the team and it was obvious that she was some she was some functioning as the role model in Botswana I visited the Vet laboratory and Most of the people working there are young women and they were trained at the IEA and They are now working. By the way, it was not Recently, but I visited Namibia and there too. I saw Food safety laboratory, but most of the people working there are young women trained by us So it is for sure that we will have a good future But it will take some time We cannot We can be optimistic in the future But we have to recognize and we cannot recognize that there are some difficulties For example, when I visit the operation rooms of nuclear power plant, I rarely see women or In the regulatory body, I see women and there are some Heads of regulatory body, I mean female heads, but that's not very common Safeguard is a very important work of us and the pool of pressure professionals are Concentrated in our organization, but we do not see many women among them I Was curious why that is not the case and I asked a question and some of them told me We entered they entered the IEA as inspectors when they are 35 or 40 around around that age At the inspector's work is very hard They have to travel for a long time and when they have children, it is not that easy These are the some limits that we have for now, but I mean in the limited areas we have some difficulty in identifying women But in the overall picture is very promising and especially when Women are appointed at the highest level of the IAEA they will function as a role model and They will give good impact to the better representation of women not only at the highest level but in the representation equal representation as a whole When we Try to improve for the representation of women We have to address another important issue that is to achieve them them Creation of a healthy comfortable workplace, I mean Removing the sexual harassment bullying abuse of authority and other things of course these things happen between men and men But quite often I Observe that victims are women On this issue since my first day at the agency I stated zero tolerance Zero tolerance means Whether stuff is some occupying high position or not if they They are not allowed to undertake unethical behaviors including sexual harassment bullying or other things and When it happens, they are subject to the investigation and Subject to measures as appropriate Stating that or does not solve all the problem problems But stating it is very important to make the policy clear Also clear statement and that from the top of the organization Contributes to prevent such thing happen. What is the outcome? Unfortunately, this happens. I'm honest and I have to accept that these things happen Zero tolerance does not mean the guarantee that No Unethical behavior will take place. We are human beings and we have 2500 and 2500 people and now fortunately that things happen but the important thing is that if such a case Takes place and Report it through the OIOS which is an independent body or through the management These cases will be addressed in accordance with the rule and from existing framework There's no exception. These cases will be addressed and Missing measures will be taken as necessary So these are I need to Another thing Soon we are welcoming the chief ethics Officer He will start to work Starting on the end of April and he will review the existing framework rules and he will help and to train organize that training and He will provide advice When requested so this is not this is separate from the OIOS and this is an informal process but through our experience we learned that There is some training Framework and advice. I mean through informal process Solution from in through informal process is also very important reform of other Human resource and division is taking place and we can Self the interest of for staff and member states better and it is already taking place This is the summary of what I wanted to report you this year In short we take them Women's increased Representation of women very seriously. We have taken some measures it had some Achievement but it is not sufficient and will take more measures in particular. I am aiming at Achieving and the equal representation of at the highest senior most senior level by 2021 a new ethical chief ethic officer will be starting to work and Some As I stated from the beginning Zero tolerance policy continues and some of when reported measures will be taken and members members of our staff are encouraged and to report when they They find or they are subject to them and unethical Behaviors so thank you very much and I'm looking forward to Learning more through this meeting and thank you again for this a very strong Participation this year. Thank you very much Thank you very much director general for your kind thoughtful and and and very accurate remarks I know that improving gender equality here in the secretariat is a priority And I'm sure that our discussion today will help us identify concrete actions that we all can take in support of gender equality Good afternoon ladies gentlemen Excellencies, I'm very pleased to be hosting this annual event and thank you for joining us to celebrate International Women's Day Now in its 13th year This event is an opportunity to highlight the agency's work to improve gender equality Like the director general I see this effort as vital to our success as an agency working for Adams for peace and development Although we're gathered to mark International Women's Day and celebrate the many achievements of women Promoting gender equality is about much more than one day or one event It's about all of us Displaying the right attitudes and behaviors to make it happen all of the time Many of you joined us for our side event on the added value of gender parity during last year's general conference for me that discussion was inspiring and motivating and it reinforced my long-standing belief in the importance of diversity and gender equality in our workplace But knowing that we value gender parity is just not enough We have to take concrete steps to get there and That's why we're using this year's event to focus on this specific issue that is relevant to our ongoing efforts here at the agency unconscious bias Today's discussion goes beyond just raising awareness We are inviting people into a continuing conversation That will help us recognize our own blind spots and take action to address them as human beings we all have bias and This transcends all organizations a 2016 study published by the Harvard Business Review Showed that subtle bias is much more common than overt discrimination and Often much more harmful Because our assumptions affect our decision-making on a regular basis People targeted by this type of bias can feel a damaging cumulative effect But because this type of discrimination is also subtle it can be extremely difficult to identify and address When I first heard about the concept of unconscious bias, I was immediately interested in learning more I know or I knew then right away that this topic was relevant to me as a senior manager and as an individual as I learned more about this concept I realized that there are blind spots in my own thinking and that I want to be more aware of my own Assumptions and how they can impact my daily life and the decisions that I make We all do That is why I'm very much looking forward to hearing from our panelists today This afternoon's discussion will help us address that unconscious what unconscious bias is and what we can do to address it my hope is that this conversation will continue beyond today and help us all take Collective responsibility for confronting bias and promoting inclusiveness is part of our core identity here at the agency Our panel discussion today will explore how we can tackle these challenges and these will include What is bias and how we can push past our blind spots to create a more inclusive environment? Other questions will look at will be what policies and practices have been successful in combating bias at the social and political levels and How does bias manifest in the nuclear field and how we can overcome these stereotypes and Now I'd like to turn to our distinguished guests Her excellently Helen Edwards ambassador and permanent representative of Sweden to the international organizations in Vienna I'm pleased to note that ambassador Edwards has served in various positions in the Swedish government Including deputy director general head of department for aid management Ministry of Foreign Affairs and other key posts as well as in the prime minister's office She holds a university degree in political science Social anthropology and history of economics from the University of Stockholm in Sweden Welcome ambassador Lisa Kipinski brings over 20 years of experience working in diverse global environments as a senior global inclusion and diversity executive In 2013 she founded the Inclusion Institute focused on consultancy training coaching and research her special expertise in organizational development and behavioral science Integrated with inclusive culture makes her a unique resource for change at all levels and together with her colleague Tina Nielsen They co-authored the inclusion nudges guidebook and co-founded the nonprofit inclusion nudges global initiative For this innovative work Lisa was named to the economists global diversity list of Top 10 diversity consultants in the world in 2015 and the telegraphs global diversity life Achievement award in 2016 welcome and Now to our third and very distinguished panelists Amani al-hosani Who is a nuclear systems simulation and modeling expert and is recognized as the first? Emirati female nuclear engineer fantastic achievement She's been a member of the Emirates scientists Council since March 2016 and Since December 2016 Amani has worked as the deputy simulations manager at Nahua energy company Where she leads the simulator major upgrade project? She previously spent four years at Emirates nuclear energy corporation as deputy head of simulators and Previously as a simulator engineer at Enoch Amani was involved in the development modeling and testing of the UAE's first full scope simulators She started her career in the oil industry as a process engineer with the Abu Dhabi company for onshore petroleum Operations and she holds a masters of science in nuclear engineering from Califa University and a bachelor of science in chemical engineering from UAE University so I want to welcome all my panelists and now let's begin I'd like to first start with you Lisa Our issue area expert you've designed practical techniques for changing behavior Cultures and systems to mitigate unconscious bias and create inclusive organizations Please set the scene for us. What does bias mean? What is it and where does it come from great? Great question, and I wouldn't say I'm an expert. We're all living this together So a short answer is a bias is a mental error in judgment So where does it come from? So if you've read the work by Daniel Kahneman on a thinking fast thinking slow or seen other research You know that we have two systems of thinking System one is sometimes called the fast brain and that's where automatic thinking is happening and System two is called the slow brain now as much as we like to think that we're Rational people and we're evaluating Considering information we like to think that the majority of our thinking is system to the slow brain Actually, the vast majority research shows between 99 percent of our information processing is happening in that fast brain and it's happening without our awareness without our reflection on it and With more than 35,000 decisions being made daily by our brain It has evolved to be highly efficient and thank goodness it has it's ensured our survival as a species It's enabled us all to be here together today But when it comes to Decisions such as talent or who do we connect with or how do we treat people or who do we hire? We're not always well served by that fast thinking that's in that fast unconscious part of our brain And this is where bias comes from the efficiency of our brain evolved to develop shortcuts these automatic quick thinking without thinking Actions and this is where we need to interrupt Because otherwise it interferes with our best intentions to be fair to treat people with respect dignity and to be able to make Sound objective decisions. So that's what we're focused on. We're focused on how to mitigate the bias by the way Bias will never go away and we all have it So what we need to do is to take that information forward and say what do we do about it? great interesting Amani We know that one of the biophiles biases that manifests across many cultures from a young age is The idea that girls are not good at math or science and this is an example of the fast thinking that Lisa's just mentioned and We see how that conditioning affects the talent pool down the line Is this a message you were confronted with growing up and and how did you respond to that? So first of all, hello everyone and happy International Women Day I'm sorry to disappoint you and say no, I've never faced this In my country. I'm from the United Arab Emirates and Let me tell you why what we had today is the fruits of a wise vision of our late leader His Highness Sheikh Zayed You know our country is relatively young country so 46 years ago the founder laid the solid and Concrete base For empowering women. So since the inception of the United Arab Emirates Empowering women was an integral part of The fabric of the society of the UAE so just to show you how 46 years ago there were there were very low percentage of educated women Nowadays we have 70 percent of public university graduates are females 62 percent of public university postgraduate students are females 60 percent of the workforce of the governmental sectors are females so UAE is taking big steps to empower women it's amongst its top priorities To continue this efforts in 2015 UAE announced the establishment of the Gender Equality Council Where we have a very ambitious objective where we Target to be among the best 25 countries in the world in gender equality and They actually Recently in 2017 they've published The Gender Equality Guide that's being cascaded to the different private and governmental sectors to follow This is fascinating to hear and as for a young country you see how What's possible if you have a vision? Now let's turn to a country that is perhaps not so young ambassador and Edwards in Sweden that has a very long established history and has a unique way of Promoting gender equality at schools by using teaching methods that counteract traditional gender patterns and gender roles and As we think about this, why do you think it's so important to tackle this issue of bias at an early age? And what results do you see from this kind of initiative? Well, thank you very much Thank you for the the panel today the initiative and also for for this interesting question I would say that You cannot address gender inequality without looking at gender stereotypes and Gender stereotypes are established at a very early age. I think we all know it I mean, it's about the way we look at a newborn baby The way we address a toddler the way that a child moving into adulthood Have stereotypes reinforced at every and each stage moving into adulthood from movies to internet gaming to sports After-school activities gender stereotypes are everywhere So we need to work from the very basic level the idea in Sweden is that as One of the six goals of the government in terms of reaching gender equality that equality must be Achieved also within education. So from a very early age from kindergarten on Gender mainstreaming is part of the school curricula teachers are expected not only to Integrate gender aspects into the planning of the work, but also teach gender equality as a value It's partly successful There are some excellent examples how of a how well it can turn out. I mean there are Large number of studies showing that girls and boys if they are allowed Would want to play and make friends across gender barriers that is completely clear And if you allow that to happen Then it it gives a higher degree of satisfaction and of course also allowing the individual to To make his or her own choices, but it's also a challenge Because as in any occupation Teachers and everyone else in the education sectors have their own biases so I think it's a slow process, but absolutely necessary and Starting from kindergarten through Primary and secondary school all the way up to the university. You need to address Stereotypes and gender inequality. Excellent. I see that there's a common theme early education government leadership Expectations at a high strategic level and yet the challenges remain with respect to what we come or what we bring to the table So Lisa speaking in that respect, we're conditioned to think of bias as bad and discriminatory and The question I have is is bias something we all have and is it something we should try to get rid of? I know you mentioned in your early remarks your first remark that we all have it but For example, can you give us an example of a bias that has played out in your professional life? Yeah, I try and catch myself constantly at bias so And it's a game I play with my mind and I encourage you to take a little bit of Forgiveness and lightness with yourself as you catch yourself as biased Don't beat yourself up or blame yourself if you catch yourself doing an automatic thought about someone So one of the techniques is whenever I see someone and I catch myself making an assumption about them Before I go forward. I say quick think of an alternative explanation for who this person is So I'm trying to interrupt that automatic thought that I had about someone So earlier today we did a session with the HR team and we had a photograph up of a person in What looks like a medical scrub shirt, you know v-neck shirt and we said quick name the opt to keep occupation of this person and there were at least Five six answers shot it out So our challenge is you could go anywhere from assuming that she's a nurse or a doctor or a cleaner or a receptionist And before going forward and engaging with that person try and come up with one other alternative because the truth is we don't know so that's one way to try and counter the effect of the Stereotyping the social conditioning the larger messages around us and those quick assumptions that our brain is making about people We've been hearing then the concept of stereotypes, and we all have those Pre-conditioned which starts at a very young age Amani as you progressed in your studies and entered your career How are you able to advance against these stereotypes that you faced? I will start my remark with just mentioning that I Was the first Emirati nuclear engineer working at site, so It's an honor always to be the first one, but of course without with this honor Comes of course the responsibility of Paving the way for all the women coming after me, especially I also have three children. I'm a mother of three children Salamah, she's 10 years old Ali six years old and Sarah two and a half years old and It was not an easy journey for me to balance between the family and and the work so When I joined the Emirates nuclear energy corporation and later Nawa energy corporation first day They offered me a golden opportunity To travel to u.s. And participate in developing our Baraka Full-scope simulator software, so it's a huge opportunity for me, but Having a family was Biggest challenge. I have so many barriers that I had to break to be able To succeed in this journey, so I was really very blessed to have a very understanding husband who support supported me and Allowed me to do that and I will never be able to repay my parents ultimate sacrifice when They retired from their jobs Just to accompany me and support me with the children I'm very blessed to have the support of the environment and I went there and thank God. I succeeded in my mission and When I came back for my surprise My manager was talking to me and he said oh Amani now So I came like passionate. I want to start going to work and he said Amani I have bad news you will need to be full-time at Baraka and To let you know Baraka is the our location of the nuclear power plant. It locates 270 kilometers away from Abu Dhabi where I Where my home is and to commute there at around two and a half hours and It will not be easy to go and return every day So I tried to talk to my manager find the compromise and he said oh, sorry This is the policy. We need to abide to the policy. So I said, okay, who can I speak to? He said you can go to the HR director. I went to the HR director I tried to speak to him. He said no, this is the policy no exceptions. I said, okay, but there's They have to be kind of a compromise policy were put by men. You can't change the policy so He said Okay, maybe you can talk to the CEO because any change in the policy it should go through the CEO so I Gathered my Courage I scheduled the meeting with the CEO And I was very nervous. I went into his office. I still remember that I was very nervous very frustrated I've done a lot to reach this point. I I was telling him I have so much to give to this project because this project is like the nation pride for the United Arab Emirates and I want to contribute to this project and your job is to enable me to do that and Then he was just smiling at me and nodding smiling and nodding and then he said You know because I want so many ladies like you to work for me. I will help you so He we started discussion of Oh What my expectations and I told him that it should be a compromise where I where you can enable me to succeed maybe spending one night or two night at site doing two or three days and Fortunately, we were able to figure out a flexible shift policy Children Fantastic you paved the way very good Not from you Should start from you fight for what you want indeed and this is always that the Fascinating stories of being the first the pioneers. It's always having to pave the way Now Sweden and bass redwoods is famed for its generous parental leave policies and and the use it or lose it concept Designed to encourage fair sharing of leave between women and men One of the perceived barriers as we've just heard to women's professional advancement is the impact of taking a career break or Finding that appropriate balance to care for children How has the leave policy in Sweden affected people's bias about women and men's roles in the family? Well, you're right. It's a very generous system. In fact, a parent can stay home with one child for 480 days And there's also an individual part of this leave Which means that each parent gets three months for him or herself that cannot be transferred to the other So that is they use it or lose it part of it Well, we see a steady increase in the parental leave taken by fathers. It's currently at 25 percent And it's it's increasing not quick quickly enough. So there are Political deliberations on whether for example to to extend the portion of the parental leave that is individual But in terms of effects on the leave we see them and we also see the effects on on on the attitudes To men actually spending more time with their children. Of course again, there's a lot of research showing that You know the more that men engage with the children the better for the individual and for society and these are This is knowledge that is quite widely spread in Sweden I would say that it's tipping over to Becoming the expectation that men should engage more with children And it's almost as if a man a father who does not choose to be with his child Has to explain the reason why and that is I think a change in and really a change in culture I mean there are still Effects of course of taking parental leave both on women and men Women suffer from it in terms of lower salaries and perhaps disrupted careers But we also find in studies that men who take parental leave also take a hit In terms of salary wage developments. So that is not necessarily connected to the gender But rather the fact that you actually Stay away from work But but this is a very important tool and it was one of the three major reforms that were taken in the 70s in Sweden To to really introduce a generous parental leave system that would allow At the time women to enter the labor market, but then also, you know Over the years also be used as a tool for for fathers taking a greater responsibility for for the family and obviously I mean The attitudes and the values in society are changing thanks to this What's fascinating to hear in both your Comments that it's something that requires a team effort both at home But also highly supported by your organizations and in many instances even at a larger scale by the vision of a country looking for Leveraging the entire contribution of the entire population and that brings me to think about other types of things that we might be able to to consider and discuss Lisa one of the things that you've been doing and that you were Recognized for is something called design nudges Which you define as a relatively soft and non-intrusive mental push that will help the brain make better decisions And tell us more about what a nudge is and in terms of behavioral economics. Why is it so effective? great, thank you very much, so A nudge is picture that with your elbow pushing now That's what we're trying to do with our subconscious brain It's trying to interrupt that automatic thinking so that we can achieve the outcome that we want to do whether It's gender parity or greater inclusion or more objective decision-making So what my partner Tina Nielsen and I founded in 2013 is a non-profit for sharing these Techniques because nudging from behavioral economics has been done in government policy public health Safety in many areas and domains, but we didn't find it when we were looking in 2013 in the area of inclusion and diversity so Tina and I were introduced by a mutual friend We had a conversation and it grew on for a couple of hours that day And at the end we said let's change this and we established the platform inclusion nudges where we're sharing These interrupters these bias interrupters or inclusion nudges and other people around the world are sharing their examples So for example this week we share one every week this week listed up on the website is When you're doing a talent review Rather than going in with just a few people that you think are your best bets for talent in promotion You start the conversation instead with everyone all people under review So consider all talents ready now Now that comes from actually studies done in the field of education by starting students and saying everyone starts this course Within a the highest grade and from there Then your performance goes forward your repositioning or anchoring that thought to say Everyone here is a high performer and when we go forward and start talking about it instead of trying to prove or say or Advocate just for those few people who tend to be people similar to us and in our in group Instead we leveled the playing field that all talents at that level get discussed So that's one example. That's currently there and there are many others Whether they're around recruiting or team facilitation for greater Objectivity the key point is we need to break interrupt that presence of bias and so by If we could if I could expand on that for one moment by actually having the assumption That every person that you're working with is performing at a high level And you begin to introduce that type of bias as opposed to assuming that some are better than others You change the way you assume How people actually are going to perform and you give Everyone the benefit of the doubt and their actions and results will then in turn Sort themselves out based on their outcome and imagine how empowering that feels when you step into an organization that express such belief in Your capability instead of some organizations my background is in high-tech organizations Especially that have a culture of prove it, you know, you're here sink or swim It's up to you to say if you're worthy to be here or not And that's a deficit mindset around talent and it can be very disempowering when you're not like the majority in In the lab sitting in the lab for example So by repositioning and anchoring the thought which is one type of nudge that helps us to perceive Not only ourselves and our capability, but then how others in the organization see us and it does break the pattern of Just promoting or just having leadership of a very similar profile. It helps to widen the talent pool You know, I was intrigued Amani. Thank you Lisa that that was exciting because My next question is for Amani and I was intrigued with your story and the courage it took to go to us your CEO and to ask for something and to be in that position Which is takes a lot of courage and confidence So we talked about on the organizational level and on the social level of Breaking this bias and these assumptions and in the policy Particularly as you have described so eloquently the creation of the new nuclear establishment within the UAE From your observations, are there any other biases that you encountered which you think are unique to the nuclear field That you've observed in your career so far Sometimes My colleagues I Think it's most of the time from a good faith. They they will try to to always help me in doing the stuff Performing my job and I will have to step in I say, okay, this is I know what I'm doing. This is my job. So please let me do it This kind of biases I Overcame by always emphasizing that I can't do it. Let me do it and you felt like and you feel it felt like you You you accepted it as as having good intentions. Yes, but perhaps The output was I prefer to I think of good intentions. We both will prefer to have it as a good intentions and That brings me to a question That I think is in everyone's minds in this in this time of being very much aware of our biases And if you are a man trying to negotiate this world of of empowered women Have you had observed any of your male colleagues attempting or trying to find the right way to behave and any kind of awkward or Interesting stories that any of you all have experienced when you've been indeed in working with your your your male colleagues Can I start absolutely? I Have a lot of stories So working in UAE was an opportunity for me to work with people from all over the world We have more than 30 nationality working for our project. So When they came from everywhere, they they have perception or previous thoughts of how To deal with women while you are in the UAE So it was very awkward to meet new people Whenever they they will come from Europe of the United States. They will always try not to look at you They they so it was always awkward then we had kinds of safety culture workshops we have Because we have now the Nawa way where we have now a culture for the multi cultural environment I started to understand more why they were behaving this way Number one is the way we dress that we are covered with the Sheila and abaya. So it's kind of Barrier for them The second thing that they told them before they come don't look to the eye of a woman and the UAE and that's not true You can always speak to me and look to my eye and So there were so many myths myths that I I have to I made the presentation for them and I thought them that all of what they have in their minds are not true and they we are very professional women and We can work professionally alongside together Fascinating Bethelor well, I Think in Sweden perhaps the the main challenge is not that men try to behave in a correct way because the presumption is that They do I mean it's a very Individualistic society we tend to treat each other as individuals rather than men and women I think Having said this that of course we are still bound by the stereotypes And I think the main challenge is really to recognize those stereotypes and the bias that do exist In a almost perfectly gender-equal society and the other challenge. I think is is recognizing that and talking about the fact that Some men still feel threatened by the political Goal of women's empowerment and gender equality. I mean I have friends within the Foreign Service That between four eyes would say well, wait a minute Is it really doesn't really have to be so quick in terms of promoting women to to Senior positions within the Foreign Service. Where are my rights and I'm always tempted to say well I mean your rights have always been there It's been the problem of women's rights not being fully recognized, but I think that that is more the challenge really that Swedes tend to say and say the right things and behave in the right way But under the surface we we still have to address that The structures are still discriminatory Lisa So we've been observing International Women's Day anyone know for how long a Hundred and nine years a hundred and nine years and yet the World Economic Forum says to achieve Economic Purity gender economic Purity globally is 217 years So we've come a hundred years. We got 200 years more to go roughly Can we wait that long? I don't think so Think about all the lost talent and potential by not doing this so One thing to back to your question now about engaging with men well Gender to me gender is a wide spectrum and It should not be a code word for women. It should be for all of us So I do a lot of work within the UN as well as with multinational corporations and Frequently, I'll have well-meaning men approach me and say Lisa. I've got this wonderful idea I'm gonna start a mentoring company for women and I say right back. That's a beautiful intention, but you know what I need you to do I need you to start a mentoring company for your peers for men I Need men talking to men About what is their vested interest in gender parity because this makes good sense for men, too and Until men realize that they have a benefit Whenever gender parity is achieved then it's going to be constantly the women's issue And I ideally would love to see no more international women's days in this way that it becomes a focus on Women and something needs to be done more for women when I'd like to see women and men Partnering together in ways that both realize how this benefits them Well, thank you for that and I I think that you hit on a very interesting point in in your remarks there I think you cited some statistics from the global gender gap report which was issued late last year and It says that the global gender gap can be closed in exactly 100 years Across 106 covered countries since the inception of that the report was started You mentioned the economic gender gap will now not be closed for another 217 years and that the political gender gap could be closed within 99 years The report also notes that the availability of deeper talent pools across different Occupational groups are disrupted by existing gender biases Ambassador Edwards and Amani in particular because of your unique Professions Can you share an example of a good practice? Whereby efforts were made to overcome these bias and attract more women and men To are more women to a field where they have been underrepresented This includes both in diplomacy and in the nuclear engineering field So I'll start with Amani So I Came from a country where the leadership. I'm quoting from His Highness Sheikh Mohammed Barasheed our prime minister He said we are beyond the phase of empowering women now We are in the phase of empowering the system the society through the women. I gave you the percentages of women graduating from universities and postgraduate studies so as you said Imagine the waste of talents if we did not put plans in place to support women to empower women in all different levels of In the country So UAE have so many initiatives that have been putting place highlighting role models is one of the Excellent initiatives that UAE have been doing we have the UAE pioneers initiative where they will highlighting the pioneers in their fields Dubai women establishment had an initiative called my role model Well, they will bring a very successful role a woman role model and They they will have a kind of seminars and the woman will be approachable by the students So they can inspire the students Taking further steps UAE have Taking actions actually to do this UAE have 30% of their cabinet ministers females we have the youngest Female minister for youth as a youth minister We have the advanced science minister, which Her name is Sarah Amiri. I'm working with her as part of the Emirates scientist council And one of her highest priorities is to promote women involvement in STEM So you are taking big positive steps toward breaking all the barriers and accelerate women involvement Thank you. Excellent ambassador Well, I think it's important to To to just remind ourselves of why it is important to to try to Break up segregated labor market. I mean in Sweden, for example, we have almost a hundred percent male dominance among plumbers electricians and construction workers in the health field Nurses kindergarten teachers. It's also more than 90 percent women Of course this segregation has several effects the first one being that the pay gap between women and men is Explained by the fact that women work in lower paid occupations The second one is of course that there are talents out there that are not being Used fully and the third I think is is that you know The homogeneity within certain occupation and sectors actually work to the detriment of what that sector is there to achieve I mean, I have a very interesting example from the construction sector a Study that was made just a few months ago in Sweden where where the aim was to understand the reasons for deadly accidents in the workplace and The discovery was that in the construction sector there was a high overrepresentation of deadly accidents and the question was why and It quickly turned out that it's a macho culture in the construction sector and the cooler You are as a construction worker the less security measures you take Of course, this leads to deadly accidents. There's a lack of diversity and creative thinking I think In in certain sectors that are too heavily dominated by one gender whichever it is and that we need to address I mean in Sweden we work at many levels again beginning in in school with trying to Inspire young girls to take in a more intense interest in math for example and natural sciences We work to try to attract Women young women to to higher education technical occupations for example that has turned out quite well I mean we have a clear increase in the number of female engineers natural scientists And I think it's also in addition to what of course the state can do a question of the employer trying to attract Attract women and men showing that it is a diverse working place Diversity is something that is charged for itself and that everyone makes an effort to try to attract the opposing gender so to speak the unrepresented unrepresented gender and And There are different initiatives taken at different levels and of course with the overall ambition to to make full use of the society's talents and there are You know several Estimates of how much there is to gain G20 for example made a commitment just a couple of years ago that by 2025 The gap between women's and men's participation in the labor market would be diminished by 25% This would increase global GDP by six trillion dollars It would also increase tax revenues by 1.5 trillion dollars, and that's just a 25% reduction of the gap so we all have to have to Gain from this picking up, but what you said Lisa about this is not a women's issue. It's it's a society issue And I'm glad you've mentioned that this is in fact a much more broader issue Because now that we've explored some of the challenges and the definition of what unconscious biases and how it can manifest it and Shared some experiences and stories with that now we ask ourselves. I'm sure so. What do we do about it and? I think From an organizational perspective and certainly is head of management for the agency My reaction is I want to learn more about this and I want to do something about it and of course my reaction is let's go do some training here and Lisa you've said in in your work that about eight billion is spent on unconscious bias training in the workplace and diversity and inclusionist awareness programs But you found that they're not necessarily as effective as people had hoped for and Sometimes they even backfire. Yeah, and it's important And I would I would like the audience to to hear this side of the of the issue Because I don't want people to walk away thinking that if we do training we solve all our challenges with unconscious bias So what is it that you found and why does it sometimes backfire and why do sometimes these initiatives? Start out like they may address this issue and then sometimes it doesn't quite work out that way What's going on there? Thank you for asking the question so It's not just that I found but also Researchers at Harvard Business Review if you read two years ago, there's an article why diversity programs fail. It's covered there as well I and a partner did some research and it was published last year for Newspeak magazine on diversity inclusion actions that have impact We'd base it on a global survey And there are many other studies that show that when you bring in and there is this hope and this wish that if we just did unconscious bias training that will magically Evaporate all our biases well research shows that that only has an impact for one to two days after the class That's it and if you imagine that a vast amount of money that's been invested there The second piece that happens is almost like a moral license in our mind that we hear the message It's natural. We're biased. Oh, yeah That's just gonna be the way it is and all of a sudden we feel let off the hook in a sense that we're no longer responsible for those bias thoughts and Research shows that actually discrimination rates go up rather than down So I know that across the UN Tina and I are doing a lot of work with The gender action plans and there is and most of the parts of the UN a box there that says offer unconscious bias training And we keep saying no, we don't do that because it doesn't work Instead what we all need to do is work on D biasing So that means how do we mitigate bias in our one-to-one interactions in our manager-to-team interactions in our policies and our processes and that's about Lessening the bias and that does have impact. So the research that we conducted last fall showed that Organizations that D bias that are working to lessen the impact of bias and their processes and their ways of interacting Are three point one times more likely to achieve their gender and diversity and inclusion goals So we have some work there to do and I'm really pleased to be partnering with you all including this morning We had a session with HR introducing the idea of how do we work to D bias? excellent Well now that we know that there's still hope There is hope Before we I'm looking at the time and I'd like to just see if I could ask a just one more question of Of Amani and of ambassador Edwards And this is an opportunity to just to reach out to many many people because we have people who are watching online Amani what message would you have for young women and men hoping to follow in your footsteps? What can they learn from the path you've taken? So I Would like to tell all the ladies the young ladies don't let anyone let you down Be strong be confident Don't take no for an answer If you fail, it's okay. It's opportunity to learn just Go up again and Set a goal work toward your goal and you can do it Excellent Ambassador Edwards, what advice would you give as well? What have you learned? What I think Picking up on on one point that Lisa made is this is an issue that concerns everyone. It's not a women's issue It's just as much a men's issue and men need to be engaged and feel that this is a fight worth taking also for them That's that's my first point The second one perhaps slightly in contradiction to the first one is that women need to get their act together and Organize themselves. I think it's important that women speak out collectively That is that is sometimes Politically controversial, but all the same. I think that is important Thirdly We need to recognize and talk about discrimination as a structural phenomenon It is not the fault of the individual who is discriminated It's a systematic problem that we need to take a systematic approach to And that would be my last point. I mean we cannot address gender inequalities by peace meal actions You need to connect the dots and realize that men's violence against women has has ties to household unpaid household work which in turn has ties to Inequalities and educational health lower wages and so on it It's all part of the same picture and it has to be addressed in that sense Good points. Thank you very much And now Lisa I'd like to end with you Where do you see the greatest opportunity for impact when it comes to the de-biasing and inclusion in an organization? such as ours and On an individual level what do you hope for as our main takeaway today? What's your one key message that you want people to leave with and think about today and tomorrow? Well, thanks very much So picking up on your last point there is hope and results are coming in on the impact of de-biasing Organizations whether that's doing blind interviewing or blind skills assessment Meaning you don't see the name and the gender or et cetera the identifying details of the person Those are showing that they are indeed widening up on gender on nationality on Background skill sets. This is helpful. We're moving bias from that decision process. We see it when it comes to Spaces around team interactions and getting all voices heard and this is actually something that I hear and Tina Here's a lot as we work across the UN and we ask the question What does inclusion mean for you within the UN system and Overwhelmingly we hear I'm listened to my voice is heard That's what most of your peers across the UN are answering when we say what does inclusion look like So if we can design team interactions Conversations ways of working where our colleagues feel heard. I think there's definitely hope there and One takeaway is get to know our own bias blind spots. You can take the implicit Association test online. This has over I think now eight million people have taken it worldwide It'll only take you two three minutes and you can test your own blind spots And that will certainly help you to have heightened awareness when those situations may come up And if you're needing to remember the website, I'll share that with you and I know that you'll share that out We're great. Thank you Lisa Super so now now this is an opportunity This has been a great conversation But it's now an opportunity to hear from all of you who have so patiently and strongly Stood in many cases for our hour-long discussion with our panelists So what I'd like to do is go ahead and open it up for questions And we have about I don't know 20 minutes or so for questions There is a microphone here and as always please identify yourself and wait for the microphone So looking for the first question. Yes ambassador, please. Yes. Thank you, Mary Alice. Thank you To all three panelists for the very interesting You know contributions at least I have a question for you in terms of what do you can you please elaborate on the biasing? And so on how it gives us examples of how it works. Thank you So one could be Let's work on the bias of a thought perception so how we anchor begin that thought Let's talk about flex work because you both reference some the ability to work flexibly So typically that exists that the employee has to ask his or her manager I'd like to work flexibly and the manager decides Other organizations who are de biasing change the anchor point of that conversation They say all roles flex So for example the teleco company in Australia Telstra has done this and published their data That they switched about three years ago to all roles flex meaning every role in the organization can be work flexibly It still can be a conversation that the manager can say no that doesn't quite work for this particular role But do you see we've flipped it then instead of having to ask It's all are given what they have discovered in the last two years is the number of women and senior leadership roles has increased Because this means even senior level roles may be worked flexibly That barrier of number one having to ask has been removed because it's open and number two it envisions Possibilities to move higher up in the organization So de biasing in this case is changing the anchor point of how I perceive flex work and It has benefits in a larger scale and not just the uptake of flex work But further on in terms of more women and senior leadership roles Great. Thank you. Good Another question. I'm sure I can't see them because I'm not very tall. Let me stand up Yes Thank you, and thank you for organizing this panel. It's been fascinating. I Heard that Director-General's remarks that there is now a very clear goal for the most senior level of women in the agency And we've just heard about the importance of having intake so that women end up in senior positions Regarding unconscious bias. How important is it to have women in senior positions in an organization? In order to challenge assumptions Well, I can start please start. It's hard to be the first, isn't it? So it was hot when you're the first woman in a senior level. You're the one off the odd one Not saying that you're odd This is general of what experience and studies are showing when you get to you know what happens That's a women's club So you're still not getting the full benefit of the difference by having this here When you studies are showing and you get three or more on a team all of a sudden it loosens up the current state and Actually men are reporting that they feel freer to be who they are as well Because difference has been introduced into the team dynamics So it's definitely very important to do this but not as one offs or Even just to we have to get to a critical mass state and then studies shows role modeling is very important It shows that Hiring shifts in terms of the patterns the expectations and envisioning what a leader looks like what a Scientist looks like you shift the perception Excellent Amani any any views Actually my input to that is It's not easy for women to prove themselves You have always to Double the work so to be visible visible for everyone else So it's good that you have The policy support or the government support To put kind of mandate To support women also To go up to the senior management level Good and bathroom Well, I think it all the answer almost speaks for itself Obviously, it's very important to have women in leadership positions To show within the organization that that is achievable But also to show that the broader public that women can take Influential positions in society whether in politics or or economics and I would say that on almost all accounts If you look at for example women in air on airtime or women as Economic leaders, I mean women are underrepresented in all domains So this is a structural problem again that that needs to be addressed as a structural problem And the overall aim must be that women and men have the same access to to public space and leadership positions, of course Great. Thank you. Good. Good answers as moderator. I don't think I need to comment I do enjoy my my position as the only DDG in the IAEA system, but I have Often found some funny situations that I found my end that I that I can share with you Which I'm sure no one none of my male colleagues Appreciate and DG this has a story to tell in your office with your chairs They're big chairs and my very first day that I came as DDG last year And we had our little DDG DDG is only meeting and I sat down in the sofa and sat like this And I don't know if Mikhail is still here But DDG Chudakov sat next to me and it's a leather sofa and I slid into Chudakov And I couldn't actually I had to push myself back up So these are sometimes situations that you don't ever expect to find yourself in and I don't think it's necessary gender as much as it was size-based, but Very difficult to be with my male colleague almost next to him touching him and we hadn't actually been officially introduced either So now I make a strategic decision when I meet with our DDR DG And I find the single chair and I sit at the end that way none of my male colleagues feel uncomfortable Other questions for our panelists Yes Thank you, I'm Tristan Balsway and I work for the agency and I thank you for for this panel today Would any of you be willing to share a situation where you felt were subject to bias in the workplace? And I would like to thank Amani the nuclear engineer pretty cool that to have sure our experience In the UAE with the people not looking at you because I would have felt exactly in that trap So would any of the others or you willing to share an anecdote or a situation where you felt Victim of a bias and what's the advice for the person on for us to take from that to avoid Falling in the same trap. Thank you Can I flip the question and actually share where I was biased to someone else And by the way in our newsweek study when we asked Leaders around the world about have you caught yourself being biased? Very few said yes, and then we asked a question. Have you caught someone else being biased? And it was like 76% said yes So there's a lot less of this pointing to myself and more of this pointing your bias So I'm going to share an example of where I've caught myself biased I was two years ago in New York at an international women's day event at a women's Conference and it was kind of a u-shape and lunch was served and then I was to be up on the stage on a panel with some other people and being the polite and proper Daughter that my mother raised me to be I wanted to clear my plate away Before going up because it was a self-service buffet And I took my plate as I'm heading to stage and I'm not quite sure where to take it But I saw three women standing in the corner wearing black pants and a white shirt and speaking Spanish What do you think I did? I Walked over and I said excuse me. I don't know where to put this. Could you please take my plate? Some woman said sure sure, I'll be glad to take your plate and Something happened behind me. I was making my way to the stage and Two three seconds later. I look over my shoulder and that same woman's coming up on stage with me She was the CEO of Nestle, Mexico So yeah, it can happen all the time and what I need to do and what I tried to do is There I go again Caught myself being biased look at how the mind works and what do I do about it? I agree with you. I think it's important to turn the question to oneself and and and really Try to observe what kind of bias you have yourself, but I can also I mean, I could tell you a lot of stories about what I have experienced through my career and but I don't want to bore you with details, but I'm a perfect living example of bias and also harassment gender-based harassment within Any of our workplaces it has happened to many of us and I think there are a lot of stories to be told and Certainly there are a lot of living examples of bias being being very very Dominant in our workplaces and also something that we need to constantly discuss what kind of effects Do we have from from these kind of bias and stereotypes? Money Okay, one more question if we have any others I'm also mindful of your time and the fact that you've all been a great audience today Yes, and this will be our last question for the afternoon I'm Francis Marshall here from IAEA and the question I have is have any of the research that you've done been able to identify the family situation of Men's responses in that context Do you ask men if they have sons or daughters or if their wife is full-time or Active with a career and that and if that has any effect on how they then treat or Proceed that they treat women in the workplace There is a study that's been done that I didn't conduct connect But I'll share with you and you can share outward it looked at the family situation of Male leaders business leaders in the US and in the UK and they presented them with a Fictitional candidate who had the same background But in one group it was called David and the other group the candidate was called Diane And they were given the question of would you offer this person a chance to further their? Education and then there's a promotion after they further their education and it looked at those that are in traditional Relationships at home which they defined as This was about opposite sex couples So as the man working and the woman at home primary caregiver house care family caretaker and The other group was dual career both both spouses were working and in the group That was traditional family They were less likely to recommend the Female candidate for promotion over the male and those that were in dual career had equal response rates in terms of promotion fascinating So let's thank all our panelists. I think we've been We've we've used the hour very well and the half hour I hope everyone in the audience has been given some food for thought It's been such an honor to have all of you today. You all have traveled Some further than others, but on behalf of the agency on behalf of International Women's Day I wish you all an excellent day, and thank you so much for your time. Thank you everyone for your time