 Hi everyone. Excited to talk to you again at Drupal South. I'm especially excited to be here in Wellington. Good day. Yep. And do we have any kiwis in the room? Yay! OK. Kia ora ki te whānau. Kau runga runga te moana. Kau rau kawa te moana. Ngā whanganui a tāra ahau. Kau nāti pākehā te iwi. Kau reiri te tupuna. Kau iwering te waka. No sharing ahau. For those of you Australians in the room, that is called a mihi. And it says where I'm from, my mountain, my river, my waters, my city. My ancestors, how their ancestors came to New Zealand. And we use that across reference with each other and find those one-degrees of separation that we so often find in New Zealand. So, welcome. Thank you all for coming to listen. Just before we jump ahead, I've realised the introductory slide about who the two of us are. So, I won't push next yet. As a quick introductory for those of you who don't know us, I'm now Australian. I'm a particular producer of Govsey. I have a lot of customer calls and just all round lots. Yep. And I'm Sharon Clarkson. I've worked in the New Zealand Government Digital Space for quite a long time. Basically, leading the Transformation of the Land Revenue in the 2000s. And then went back to Australia after working at LINZ. And a couple of other agencies went back to Australia and as part of leading a whole government branch in Australia, created GovCMS and have steered it ever since. Cool. So, a bit of an introductory of what we're doing today. Sharon's going to talk about some stuff she brought up at Drupal South in Brisbane but also touches to some of the community. We're going to talk a bit of DxP. I think we're going to model there some of the steps that are probably going to be involved there. You can more point about that. Feel free. And of course, we're going to talk a couple of things around content business security, a couple of technical things as well. Yeah, questions for you as well. Not just questions. So, previously at Drupal South in Brisbane we spoke about GovCMS now moving into its third major transformation phase. So, our first was all about establishment. Our second was all about changing our technical stat to Kubernetes. This really was a technical transformation and now we're looking at implementing a whole range of transformative technologies making them available to the overseas that use GovCMS. As part of that when I spoke to you last, we had just completed the first stage of a limited procurement where we did proof of concepts with a number of vendors and we did that because Government hasn't really had much opportunity to work with DxP and personalisation content sharing at scale and we needed to learn as much as our customer agencies need to learn. Our GovCMS team also didn't have a great deal of exposure. We took those proof of concept and we worked closely with a number of vendors. We spent time with them every week. We did showcases, very long showcases and then at the end a very a large community showcase to all of the agencies on GovCMS. As part of that, we learned a lot of things and we started to understand some of the issues that we're going to have to solve as doing this in Government presents a few more issues to solve and just doing it out in the wild. So this is shaped our thinking. This talk today is going to have a box drawn around it because as I indicated at Drupal South last year we were then going to go and put in a full DxP tender to market which just happened. That tender has closed it's currently in evaluation so for that purpose and because I don't want to say anything that might mean I have to start again we've been talking about functionality today. We're not going to be talking about vendors and about product at all. Stay away from those things and if you ask me a question about them I'm going to have to politely decline to answer but I'm happy to talk about what are the challenges for us going forward into this new world what are the things we're really having to think about where do we think we're going to start because I have to start preparing everybody because we have so many sites and customers what we do has a ripple throughout the whole community the Drupal community and the Government community so it's important I flag our intention and just reiterating the model that I put up on at one of our GovCMS mega-meats in 2019 this is how we see the world who owns the CMS controls cost controls the ability to innovate and to co-develop and we are resolutely open sourcing and the core of GovCMS which is Drupal will remain an open source and our distribution developed by Government obviously that's a big role for my department finance and my team we then have hosting partners that we choose every 3-4 years and they help us deliver that platform we also have a DSP panel Drupal Services Panel and it's currently being refreshed it went out to market last year and started around 4 years ago and that gives a lot of Drupal vendors an opportunity to be part of a panel and it makes procurement a lot easier agent we have security services so we buy some third party security services and our own team in finance does a lot of the security work behind the scenes it's not just something we buy we're held up in Government as the gold standard for cyber defence especially out on cloud something we've developed over 10 years well before we even started GovCMS and then lastly this is what we've gone out to market for to create a panel of DSP providers for all of our customers to use so that's how we see the world because it's worth just confirming that not only are the panels not mandatory they are a service you can use if you're a Government agency and it's useful to you but GovCMS is not mandated as a service Australian Government not even the Commonwealth and that's something we've been quite staunch about and protected from being made mandatory we want people to come to our service because it's good not because they're directed so broadly when we talk DSP we're talking about two broad groups of capabilities one one side personalisation on the other side ways of sharing and reusing pieces of content at its most broad level today we're going to be mostly concentrating on the second of these on the content sharing one of the reasons for that is is where our community is most mature and ready to go personalisation is going to take a little more time and a little bit more learning and it's probably going to be something that I would say certain agencies are going to be more ready to move quickly than others whereas we're already all in the business of content and the principles that we already understand and know about delivering websites and content can be reused we're not starting from nowhere and I suppose importantly when we think about that personalisation it is a very hot topic within our community obviously there's a hot topic just in general when I look out there and see the conversations that are happening the biggest and most interesting one for those of you who maybe don't work a huge amount on the government space is everyone being to do something provided someone's already done it before no one wants to be first in most instances so that creates its own sort of challenge separate to some of these other aspects cool so jumping into this sort of space where I see there's some really sort of obvious ones and of course I don't expect you to all be familiar with those products that are up there I am, I actually used to manage all of them because are these are all products that are served out of the Department of Finance where we sit so of course when I consider some of these sort of obvious and easy starting points for sharing content within an agency makes a lot of sense you're delivering a product but you're also delivering a lot of similar things in the same way that we can use toolkits, frameworks and all of this sort of stuff to start with a common base we can do the same thing with some of the content that serves out into a government each one of these sites Department of Finance, Finance Minister Transport and Political Exchange Council and selling the government all have a whole bunch of base bits of content information copyright disclaimers all of that fun stuff that you already go and talk to a legal team about only enough they usually look the same if not very similar so to me, when we think about those there's potentially some really obvious starting points where it's probably coming from a single site or a single source and being served out now again all of a sudden because there's a lot of different lenses within finance and same with a lot of other agencies and customers that's probably at least an obvious sort of ring fens of where things could start and of course advantageously for all of those products there I'd already moved them to GUP CMS in previous life as a customer so some theoretically really easy ones to do don't need to jump out don't need to deal with the politics of other locations or other agencies it's theoretically easy to move on and control through process technologies the same contents the same excuse me then when I personally think of a next sort of step of extensions I start to think of things that are common or very similar across other agencies we'll come back to that one at the top but of course when I think about some of this other messaging we've got that one in black with that white text there that's actually a message that appears on the GUP CMS site now again we put that up there to sort of give a bit of confidence maybe something or something similar to that is a group on that could be shared out more broadly or chose to use it so then of course we're thinking of okay great we've got a source we could potentially push that out to other agencies other products things like that and of course a latter two ones here one in yellow and this teal one we're talking about COVID funnily enough that's been a big talking point recently not sure if you were aware and of course another one when we do federal elections or we have other things in the change of government or we have some generic messaging that applies to everyone but of course isn't necessarily on top of your mind when you get to whole motions being called and I'm not the same type of person I want to talk about the previous time I'm here so when I think of legislation and regulations and all the latin terms as they come up with court cases because that's when it gets really exciting so of course yes legislation business rules those messages are controlled and they come in from our places when we sort of extend further and start thinking about what that looks like when you're around my platform I know the product we've got on there and of course again probably a justitive transference from somewhere to somewhere else what's the source, what's the target and then of course some question marks about compiles that then sort of come in do I always want those messages to appear do I only want certain ones when I think of it from a technology standpoint that's probably actually the easier bit it's more about when should these things happen who controls those things how do we manage that technology's great, technology already exists it's the easier bit in my mind really is and of course so I don't know what I'm really having to think about is how do I impart confidence in thousands of people that participate in GOVCMS to use these new tools and these new capabilities starting with what Alice has just outlined will mean that they're working with things that are already very familiar and not very controversial and that'll be I think the first touch on whatever tool sets we have and that's designed to break down the unknown new stuff fears and just let them concentrate on learning how to do it the second step and this is going to be the one that is going to be the most challenging but it's starting from a topic based content and what I think we will do is start off with a couple of topics only and look at those topics right across Government but keep it fairly contained in the beginnings and we know that obviously choose a couple of topics that we know cross right over seven or eight different agencies responsibilities when I talked last year I had an interesting dot point that a few people asked me about on one of my slides and it said we were going to do DXP we were going to do this, we were going to do that I had one that said structural that we are facing in Government things that we don't have and I think this is going to expose one of those structural missing structural pieces very quickly so it'll be one or two topics at a time, very limited I'd like to involve as many people as possible instead of micro sprints going probably virtual so that as many people across Government get a chance to experience this to play with it a bit to experiment to build their skill build their confidence because it is all about skilling up the community and ways in which we might use this these are New Zealand smart traveller some information here from traveller and from passports and then of course that kind of content can be exported to business sites other sites that are related to travel and then again to other sites like travel agents and such where we want to get our Government messages out too so it doesn't stop at just Government I think we'll start sharing to Government to wear a bit more proficient and then we'll be looking at where else on the internet are the people that we need to read these messages where are they where are they gathering on the internet because they don't necessarily think I'm going to wake up this morning and the first thing I must do is go to a Government website they might be looking at Qantas they might be looking at Flight Centre reading a travel blog on stuff we're doing any of those things and we need to be thinking about where do our messages need to get so it's about knowing your audience a lot better than we have today so with that sort of thinking that's where we get a few more arrows and a few more boxes on our screen and we start thinking about outside of our platform now of course again there's always that question of what is the source, what is the target owner of these things who allows for this information to go across now of course that's great there's a lot of thinking that needs to happen there but as Sharon has just indicated it makes a lot of sense if we can expose material and have it available where it contextually makes sense there's a small subset of people in this room that do go and visit a Government website at the start of their day that's usually because they work on that website that's not the sort of average person's experience they're trying to find out but whether they're trying to find out granted whether it's a Government website but people are looking at whether they're looking for commute information they're looking for potentially safety information depending on certain circumstances among other things on top of just living life so being able to then go okay well we need to expose information from somewhere, feed it off to other things that are outside of our platform we don't have it for everything we're not mandated Government and having transparency sharing information we should make that material subsequently available for where it makes sense for others now that's fun and then of course otherwise means Government other Government products that aren't on our platform plenty of transactional tools that happen would need this sort of information and then of course there's plenty of products just out there publicly it could also benefit from this as well again a lot of it's trying to find that context yep and that does sort of show up that when you start to take content from multiple agencies that all have a view and a particular lens on a topic we have to start thinking about topics from a whole or Government perspective not an agency perspective and thereby is the missing 2016 when I was at DTO I wrote a series of blog posts about for a different purpose but I heard already written quite a lot about the fact that we have editorial control over the content we publish as an agency but we do not have editorial management of topic across Government in Australia Commonwealth I don't know if that's the same for New Zealand whether you've got further along on that path certainly we are at the beginnings in the Commonwealth Australia what does that matter well you need editorial control over a topic if you're going to be able to take all these little pieces of information from different agencies and knit them together to tell a story or to take them apart and reform them with other pieces of content somebody needs to have their chief editorial review on that topic from a whole Government perspective we don't have that structure we don't have even the beginnings of that structure being made but one thing about GovCMS is such a large community now that if we decide to sort this out we can just sort it and we can just get on and do it because we're a kind of doing kind of community and once they see the gap everybody will jump in and help to solve it similarly some of these pieces of information will be supporting services and more and more it's going to be critical to actually have identified service owners end to end rather than just inside the agency so it's going to require a real flip in thinking because up till now everything had been agency but certainly when I did some work on a whole Government perspective a few years ago it became quite clear that the lack of editorial control across topic was causing all sorts of issues for users who would often get conflicted information on a single topic so the good news is that this leap forward might start to sort some of this out but it's going to take quite some work behind the scene to get the structures in place that are missing, let's do that We've got some great theories so far because of course when we start thinking about this I should have actually found a messier one but I'm thinking spaghetti in a lot of the instances here again I don't think any of these problems are unachievable but I think it could become quite messy quite quickly if we're not controlling this approach that we have spaghetti and we're not open about it because I think we can solve a lot of these problems we've got the attitude we've got the right attitude we believe we can solve things and that's half the battle which of course then lends it through well if we're sending information one way well if we need to cross-pollinate information that means we need to pull things from other places we need those controls there which of course then just means more arrows against these things we've got here not yet but soon so again it's trying to know who the source is what's the trusted bit of information when should it be exposed all of those lovely things and again goes back to a bit of that stewardship goes back to that ownership lots of those sort of points that Sharon was talking to then so this is the sort of thing that we're working through at the moment trying to understand what we don't yet understand trying to work out where the gaps are trying to work out where the gotcha points are going to be when we start doing this trying to start to pull the community together in small groups to start talking through some of these issues for us at the technology side of it's fairly simple and nothing that we have any particular concerns over obviously we'll have to do the standard government things take things through evaluations and such like but really it's this that's going to consume us not the technology side however there's obviously some benefits and substantial options that come out of that I'm going to say if we're going to do spaghetti we could at least sell as a product and hopefully have it a bit controlled when we think about some of those challenges in my face so to my mind well that sounds like it's an improved existing service even if we're just talking about information that's available like I said earlier there's trademark examiner and of course things are shown on business.gov.au a lot of that has some context missing as to when you should apply for a trademark lots of fun things there let's not get into the act there's too much but in things like that if we're serving up information there that's a great thing that helps both the business.gov.au site that helps the Australia site or that's great by some patents office new services well if we're just serving up content and that's a good option for people to be able to build extra tools, build new tools leverage things we've already got and then of course there's also that one where we think about something like content as a service so what that looks like to be saying so Scarecrap makes an appearance as usual in my presentations it's daunting let me start to get into this but it's really exciting as well we are really motivated to make this happen but you know we've got some challenges but we don't feel like we're alone in that we feel like we've got 105 other agencies all willing us on and we're willing to get involved and help us work this out and that's why we're so much stronger because we're all together so so no we're only on time and of course these are the text heavy slides of the camera feel free to take photos if you can big one for me content is still going to be king coming out of all this stuff it's always the argument to me three big sort of headings there's an ownership problem a currency problem and a governance one and of course there's a lot of interaction across those when we think ownership who maintains it how do you find the owner for it that's a classic one in government teams change, email addresses change oh we don't run that program anymore but no one can take it down all of that fun stuff the more things change the more they stay the same currency is it up to date big one, is it accurate that's another big one and where is it and then of course when we get to governance what's the review process if I say that that information is wrong if it's served on a product that I own what do I do about that what can I do about that if anything are there legal problems that potentially expose themselves here are there ramifications around that legislations it's own right man can have a lot of it lawyers involved I say and that sounds very expensive who gets to say who actually gets to enforce these things and of course how these changes actually communicate so when do we know that this material has been changed who can we validate that against if there's a big policy shift or government changes always sort of enforce those things as well drives a lot of this stuff again time and text business challenges quite a few here and again photos still confidence in that currency and the source and the targets should people be servicing that information should those products be able to have that access how can information be trusted and validated goodness gracious me what happens when material changes moved or removed talking back to the last slide just a and of course our pricing is based on traffic so when we think about the business model we operate from a cost recovery standpoint as a government agency if you're exposing all of this information whether it's material whatever it happens to be that potentially increases costs lots of fun little things to think about there cool I'll just punch you in the eye make sure it's robust secure and have a way to connect this stuff if we open this thing from the start what sort of a mess does that come that goes back to us to getting slide probably needs to be that controlled focused topic based and then build out from there which that's the thing and of course technology great how much stuff are we then exposing and of course what level of granularity do we mean we just want to serve up a page do we need to serve up a paragraph do we need to serve up a tiny bit of legislation of a section or some section or a business tool and security touching still into that technical space as well who should be able to connect to it who do we give trust in that are they hitting our services too much what's the sort of performance on top of security challenges we've got there what are the appropriate controls rate limits I don't want you spending most up all day who's responsible and what does that model look like how do we feel is confidence in it doesn't work for our customers all those sorts of things and then of course how does everyone connect to that and records that properly it's a p-way to do that so I think we've got questions too because we know that the agencies that we've discussed in this have relationships in the unit community they often have partners in the unit community and though we might go and control the DSP and service providers around DSP I know that they're still going to rely quite heavily on those partnerships and relationships they have in the whanau drinkable community particularly where we have integrations coming out of the DSP to Drupal so I wonder how skilled are the Drupal community in Australasia around these kind of issues how much experience have you already gained in the private sector due to these tools and is it going to be quite easy to actually happen to your and by your expertise in this field because when we need it our customers are going to be able to if we do experience a ground topic and we won't see it in the world why is that happening in the world just like they're available to the agencies around their company and then I thought maybe I should ask the question is there a wider group of people who will be interested in participating in those experience is there value for the Drupal, wider Drupal community would you like to be involved I don't mean to exclude you by saying that we would start in the almond I just assume that we would want to learn but if you think it would benefit you to observe and participate and to see the kinds of problems that we're going to work through that's part of that you must welcome and support some way to let me know your views on that and I think that's it from us noting time but if you do have questions we can take some now the worst case come and grab us in the hallway and we can also talk to those things too we're approachable out there just so you know it's our marketing arm we'll look for the gaps even shorter with the really tall way two questions first question do you have a solid use case in mind for the cross-ball nation and second question what are the thoughts and strategies for long term adoption that we've got to see in this platform I think when we think of the topic one I don't think we have one set in start at the moment cyber security is probably a very good one obviously things such as the change of cyber.gov.au and of course the fact that we should be doing things securely as well as our cleaner yesterday as well the one that I always custom mind is COVID and the main reason for that health is a customer on our platform services Australia is a customer on our platform and of course if we think about the let's say life cycle of COVID we've gone through a fair chunk of it we've seen what's happened we've seen how everyone's responded to it and of course we've entered a new phase when of course they've mentioned that the pandemic is over it's obviously not necessarily as current as it has been but I think it's also one impact with so many people but I think that's an opportunity to go back reflecting what everyone did and see how we could do that better I don't want another pandemic I'm sure Brian else is going to say about it but I think that was probably the test case against everyone so I think that's probably what everyone wants to say In context disaster resilience it's probably been a nice move but also Australia I remember getting a good flight and the last high clients both countries had to deal with disaster resilience COVID pandemic is another one learning our lessons from that and really taking it back up a level and getting more and I suppose just to the second question about growth with the Gunseng West community I think at that point where we have this level of organic growth that works well for the fact that we're not mandated it's a choice there's obviously a couple of things that are already in place that work well we talk about resilience, we talk about uptime we talk about the work that we do during the pandemic again to make sure that sites like health services Australia are not made up but that's a good use case in that time it's a great one we get to do at our homes about all those sorts of things when we think about customers that are already there and they think about new products that are coming online if they've already got that space there that they're using for other things they normally look to us as a sort of first case they can leverage existing arrangements they can go through those processes, they know the curriculum and all of those sort of things so a lot of that sort of happens anyway and it's working quite well when we think about how people come in and reach out for us a lot of that is that word of mouth or just straight up general cold inquiries that come in the door I'm in a lot of those conversations and people are looking at us very evenly in the recovery phase does these things fit do they not do we need something further down the road and of course we have sasking class so of course a lot of that initial compensation is against your discovery where does that land or if you're doing something like a transactional system that doesn't fit our model anyway so for a bunch of those it's a lot of what comes in the door and when I see what's happening anyway and I forbidding the program just in only three years I'm waiting for us to make sure that we're paying those bills paying those bills and being able to get explore stuff like this let me get on average about 60 in the pipeline that's once you're an active bill to come and then when we've gone away with 60 at a time and put a lot of strain on us I think 60 is about a good fit for us you've got to remember that we are public servants first and we do a lot of accommodation which is often when someone is coming to us to see what's going on so when you see there is an opportunity to influence and to I couldn't tell you how many sites we've been partying to consolidating and closing most of the media has been built I need this part down the number we have and the structure of how many they started with and how many are now inside these sites so we do have that well as well which is kind of young productive but it's just one of those little things about being public servant I suppose just to close I'll try to do it to your channel the other thing for me is this is the reason we're having this conversation people looking for this sort of stuff there's obviously a need for it there is a growth space when we talk about things like BXP we have to stay with time as well if we're not being active going along those lines we'll shoot ourselves in the foot and we will die our own death because we're not being in front of those things so for us it's not necessarily chasing it's going with where we need to go I'll leave it there because obviously Suchi needs to get us off the stage and kick us out thank you for coming please grab us the ball way