 So good morning So So The bill changes the regulatory oversight administration from the previous ball so We actually have these are five options Oversight one is Second is to have separate oversight and separate rulemaking that was the last draft went through so we have two Third is a separate oversight So a we over public schools Hs over privates, but having joined will make it. That's a distract us The fourth possible option is to have all oversight and we'll make it with a lead in the fifth and have all over say when they came By a chess. Okay, but this is the opposite of this venture Here Going down There is this draft new ability on private programs New requirement for public schools notified contractive providers If the school plan to begin or expand pre-k pre-k program So there's no requirement for a public school to get permission to expand but there is a requirement this bill For them to notify those private and public Providers that constructed where they do plan to begin or expand What's the timeline line within 30 days within 30 days So there's a new requirement for the private programs to employer contract For services with a qualified teacher to provide direct instruction if you remember the last version I went through it talked about the teacher providing direct instruction or Supervising the staff at the facility. So now we're saying direct instruction, but there's a new Section that's in session law that gives kind of a three-year grace Period or a lead time for a transition to happen and in that time The teacher would provide direct instruction or instructional coaching of the provider's staff Then we'll look at that So both green books and session law is law and it's they have equal weight We tend to put things in the green books that have Value over time meaning that we'll look back 20 years from now and want to see something something we might put in the Session law in the the white books up there are things that are Interest for a shorter period of time for example, if there's a two-year report We probably don't want that in the green books for the next 20 years. So we'll put that in session law So in this case because it's a three-year phase in it would be in session law because it's only of Interest for the next three years Next subsection for section being so used to say that D There's a nobility of private programs to satisfy teacher qualification requirements by Employing or contracting with a teacher that has a Montessori early childhood teacher Certification and the previous draft we had teachers licensed under chapter 51 And those are also in this draft. So this is an addition and In EVE we have a new requirement for both agencies to post a list of providers under their respective Jurisdictions that satisfy the program quality requirements and for those providers to give notice if for some reason They no longer satisfy the program quality requirements And then two more things that There's a new ability at school districts to adapt adapt the uniform forms of processes developed by the agency of education to circumstances if compliance Where these uniform forms of processes would be and truly burdensome or costly to school districts And lastly, there's a new provision that provides that school districts to have no responsibility to monitor the administration of BK Educational services provided by contracts providers They should be immune from civil and criminal liability for their actions, which is part of the separation of oversight So now only there's a lead and a half oversight over the privates the public to the system have oversight over the privates either The oversight is in by HX and this says you have to monitor them. And therefore You can't be held rival for them Okay, let's just I'm right. So let's come to the actual So we are here So if you swap changes here on to the statement purpose This is usually sale of a joint Administration by the two agencies now is joint regulatory oversight because they store and extra rules jointly That's the change there and in this language here about uniform forms of processes and less complies with these uniform forms of processes with the end of the burdensome That's a purpose now then So no changes here pre copy pre K child is still defined the same way So no change there that goes to eligibility of five-year-olds Before pre education since before Private providers also the same as before that we're meeting the program quality requirements that we're going to look at It's regulated as a center-based child care program or family child care home by CDD So And then this section here on access and number of hours is the same so 10 hours to five weeks Sculpture pays it to it that makes the payment all this is the same as before Keep going down but for this all the same before and then get to this So this where it says that if a decision plans to begin or expand a public pre-cape education program It shall no less than 30 days prior to the day of commencement or expansion Of the program no finds right in the public and private providers with which it has contracted to provide I'm not exactly clear what that means In the real world not less than 30 days prior to the day of commencing So if you're missing on a Date certain 30 days before that I Mind I guess when we talked about this I had in mind something a little bit more robust that would spark a community Conversation about the expansion before it would be too late to Really do anything. I mean if the if a public program is going to expand on September 1 And folks find out on August 1. It's a done deal at that point, isn't it? So this is more Compensation to just in terms of when when that decision made that would probably be part of a budget. I don't assume Yeah It's passed in March And presented what is in November So I Think we could probably address our concern by you may be changing this to something along the line within 30 days of it appearing on School board agenda or something because the idea is to is to polar people so you can have a conversation as to Before Section has to do with qualification of Both private and programs So this is language that we looked at That was last week So some similarities to the language already looked at a private provider has the National Association for For the education of young children accreditation or four stars and then where we're seeing a change As I mentioned previously is the language about employing or contracting with the services of a teacher So right here in line 15 is where we see the language about providing the direct instruction At the end of the bill we'll see the standalone section that gives that three-year window To also use coaching in addition to the direct instruction Also new language here is that in addition to being able to use a licensed and endorsed Teacher and early childhood education or early childhood special education. There's Online 18 also language that would allow a Montessori early childhood teacher certification to meet that particular qualification And then for a licensed co-op provider Same requirements before you to employer contract for the services of one qualified teacher To provide direct instructions to pre-k students during the hours of operation of the program And the change here that's to meet the quality safety and quality rules about the state board so this next set of language has to do with Maintaining a list of Providers that are meeting the qualifications. So we have two paragraphs because now we have The two agencies with regulatory authority over their own program So we have a chess and the first paragraph that's maintaining and posting on its website a list of private providers that satisfy quality requirements that we just looked at the accreditation and the teacher and then the private provider that no longer satisfies one of more of these requirements is to notify a chess in writing and Public providers with which it has contracted to provide pre-k education within five days After the event that makes it to no longer meet the qualification standards And then we have similar language and B. Do you want it? Sure similar There's basically so the agency of education has the post of this of the providers that satisfy the requirements appear and likewise the whole part of that Oh Satisfies a one more of these requirements from the primary the age of education And the public provide providers which it has contracted to provide pre-k education. So remember that for public providers You can You have relationship with the school district to the school district, right? So if you you send your child There is a district to the school district the receiving district If they receive industry has an issue of compliance that receiving this or has to verify the sentence any district Okay, so we um, this isn't a tuition budget to ADM exception here nothing's not much has changed here because all the budgets and tuition sectors the same as before but This language was struck in the last draft has been put back in so that now says that On behalf of a resident pre-k childhood district should pay tuition for pre-k education for 10 hours per week The 35 weeks family to a private provider or to a public provider It's not the child's district of residence provider. However, the district should pay tuition for weeks They're within the district's academic here Okay, this is the uniform form so this requires as before a we to Sorry school districts to use the uniform forms and processes developed by ALE But new language says that was stated that the school district may adapt their uniform forms and processes developed by the ALE To a circumstances if compliance of these uniform forms and processes will be unduly burdens that were costly to the school district Then here's what we had before about the SU having a policy to monitor The member districts pre-k programs This is new to this is a page to Yeah, I'm sorry. So, um online 18 18 Just the board um So when it says the Public or private providers pre-k and again an education program. So these uh standards the VEL standards on pre-k To grade three Are supposed to be implemented In the pre-k and i'm just wondering if the agency could monitor that to make sure that they are being Implemented we have the agency coming in on a variety of topics. Um, I think we can They're required to implement them. So i'll put a flag on that one. Thank you This is a school district that pays tuition for pre-k education under this section shall be responsible for ensuring That the provider is on the list they came by the age of human services by the agency agency of education But shall have no responsibility to monitor the administration of pre-k educational services Provide by the public or private provider And shall be immediately from civil and criminal liability and policies For the actual missions of the public or private providers administration Our pre-k educational services So Just want to make sure I understand it So each agency will have the ultimate responsibility for ensuring that That the programs qualify and putting a list up and all the districts will have to do going forward is checking To make sure they're on the list and have a contract just have to have a contract But the contract won't include like a monitoring the offset monitoring right which it will be basically a tuition payment contract And remember that you know You have 10 school districts All staying one child to a pre-k program. Yep currently all 10 of those have to monitor that pre-k program Right, and this basically says no Yeah, that's not your responsibility. Your responsibility is just make sure they're on the list and pay money and pay money. Okay And this next subdivision Is meant to articulate where the regulatory oversight lies So in the first paragraph, we have that a we has the sole regulatory oversight of pre-k programs offered by the public providers Um, and if the public provider participates in cc path There's a carve out here that it says a jess is to have regulatory oversight of that provider's compliance with cc path and then um, similarly in subdivision 1b DCF has sole regulatory oversight over pre-k programs offered by a private provider. So that's a new subdivision This previously had just been a rule section. So now regulatory oversight and rules and then on line 17 Is where we get into the rules that had existed previously So as Jim mentioned when we're going through the overview This is where we start to see where we have the two sets of regulatory oversight But we have one consistent set of rules. So On line 17 in order to ensure the consistent application of rules To public and private providers We have the secretary of education and commissioner of dcf jointly developing rules So that is the the status quo now the joint development of rules And it also just clarifying that if the public school has A wraparound child care and they're accepting cc fat money that they also will fall under oversight by ahs Within a public program it's going to be dual oversight for For the private for the for the uh after pre-k hours so Towns that have a wraparound child care within the school system And they accept cc fat money. So that would that would be a time where you would have in a public school joint oversight correct Yeah, but only only to the extent of I have an oversight to the short program requirements for the cc fat So it's unbroadened that well, are you asking if like a separate child care vendors Providers coming in for after hours. No, you're just talking about the cc fat. There are sometimes There are so many different varieties of Interpretation here some are offering Uh after school care and actually it's the pair educators that are in the classroom And they're continuing on with the program, but it's they can accept Money for that because it's child care. It's not pre-k and they're accepting money for it In some they have a private provider that comes in at certain time and provides for it So there are a lot of variations and there are variations That can happen within a school building So that would be a case where the we'll call it after school because it's just easier to say That would be oversight by aahs So next we move to the first rulemaking requirement and this is just kind of rewriting existing law To permit private providers that would otherwise be qualified as private providers but for Non-compliance with the provision on the license teacher piece. So they either have the accreditation through the Macy or Four stars, but they don't have The license teacher so then we're existing language. They can create new or continue partnerships with The school districts to provide teacher support Here we have a language Previously said to require School district provides opportunities for effective parental participation. We've just cleaned up that language public and private providers Sorry, I just I've done a little bit next up. So in page 11 There was c1a again Is that to come? So that is the piece about licensed teachers and private providers So in other words what this lead in language is saying Is that for a private provider? It would be qualified as a private provider But for the fact that they don't have that license teacher piece meaning they either have the accreditation or the four stars that those are the Private providers that we're allowing to create new or continue existing partnerships with school districts Which makes sense because they don't have that License teacher component So you clean up. We're still moving through the rules Thank you. So we have rulemaking existing rulemaking language of district Can enter into an agreement with any provider to which it will pay tuition It's our moving language about quality assurance transition and other matters And that goes to what we're saying. We have the separate regulatory authorities Looking at this Okay and H We have language about establishing comparable systems by which the two Regulatory entities are monitoring and evaluating, but they're not jointly monitoring and evaluating It's just um parallel or comparable systems So they're monitoring and evaluating the implementation of publicly funded pre-k education under their respective jurisdictions that's keeping with What we've already heard We do have a joint report of the results of the evaluations though. So the two we have a we and hs reporting together on that piece even though they have um Otherwise separate authority We have more redesignation here um Language collect and report child progress data to the secretary of education and the commissioner Of children and families that just refers to the fact that we're having separate jurisdictions and they're each collecting their own information in online Three subdivision j we're still looking at rulemaking authority and joint rules And we're looking at language about establishing safety and quality requirements for public and private providers That has to be part of the rules and we'll look at language a little bit later on in the bill that talks about Which standards to use when we're looking at safety requirements So um line one i'm wondering that this just how does this relate to syria's question about progress monitoring Like what it said v2 there v2, okay I just wanted to pull up the lead in language So this is language we looked at before but so this is existing language about rulemaking We're establishing a process for documenting the progress of children enrolled in pre-k to acquire public and providers to use the process To individualize instruction improve Program practice and we're collecting and reporting data to both Departments on an annual basis. So this is not So prescriptive in that well, it's it's telling what the process is It's delegating authority to the agencies to determine what their process will be for monitoring and collecting that type of information Does that answer your question? Well, I'll tell you what I'd like to have happen. I think it's required that um pre-k this this these standards are Implemented in pre-k and I just want to make sure they are So I don't know how to word that I would assume this would do that. I don't know if that's The current language So you want to know if the process is going to take into account whether the quality standards of pre-k are being followed Well, I think they're supposed to be followed. Okay, so it's not like implementing something new It's just making sure that what is supposed to be happening is happening I'm seeing an agency flying like that might have it coming here and just For the record, sir, we're running to see education. We'll just won't we're coming in next week We'll make sure we give you a quick update on the bells and okay Okay, thank you And we have one less subdivision here and that is that in adopting these rules ALE the board of education and DCF are Are to seek to ensure that the rules that apply to public and private providers are aligned But there's language here that says to the extent that they're compelling reasons that are unique to either of these settings That we could apply Differences in the two sets of standards So we're kind of saying the intent is to keep them as closely aligned as possible, but recognizing that there might be Um differences that would justify having separate requirements Then uh, the Oops, I'm sorry The language here already changed. So F is the same which is Supplying the other tuition for businesses of tower 16 limitations around Separation instruction state has been changed In geographical limitations have been changed either. So In this bill, we can still Uh, just districts can still create geographical regions, if you will And they consult them anyway, don't they? Well, there's a process here All right, I have to do that, but yeah And that's in place now anyway Can we? Yeah And then this is um CCFAP, okay So this language hasn't changed since the last time you've seen it, but um, basically we have a Subsection in this has we need a license in order to have A child care program Um, and then they're in subsection b a list of exceptions And we're saying that a public provider pre-k is one of the exceptions Um unless the provider participates in CCFAP and we've already seen similar language that aligns with this The exception section hasn't changed. It's going to get cleaned up again on the definition of pre-k Uh, so I already talked about education Again, this goes to eligibility for five-year-olds. It's similar to research that's abstract And then uh section four, um, hasn't changed requires AOA or its secretary to develop EU form forms of processes to be used by school districts And then section five that can change requires secretary to develop the model pre-k and monitoring policy for SUCUs Section six is um, what I referred to earlier. This is language. This is the safety and quality requirements that require to be adopted joint Adoption for pre-k shall be aligned with rules that dcf applies to private providers for pre-k education Unless again, they're compelling reasons to justify separate Regulations so This particular section is new but the concept was in the previous draft that we're following CDC's safety requirements And the next section this is the language that provides that three-year period with which private providers transition from being allowed to use coaching Um to coming into a model where they would just have direct instruction by a teacher for the publicly funded hours So the specific language says even though so notwithstanding even though Earlier in the draft we say you have to have direct instruction of For the publicly funded hours the pre-k provider Employee are contracted for the services of at least one qualified teacher to provide direct educational instruction A pre-k provider may use the services of the teacher to provide either direct instruction to pre-k students Or coaching to the provider staff or both until the start of the 2023 2024 school year and then when we start that school year and thereafter The private pre-k provider is to comply with the teaching requirements that say direct instruction is the only acceptable use of the teacher And then what we kind of highlighted here is Maybe a policy direction or A question for the committee. So there are two ways of What we want to do is is Provide instruction about what coaching is so there's one option where we just reference as Agency of education guidance and that's the first bracketed sentence Of a pre-k provider that uses the services of a qualified teacher to provide instructional coaching to the provider's staff She'll use She'll use for this purpose the guidelines Implementing effective coaching systems issued by AOE as of march of 2016 alternatively We pulled language from that document to just drop in a definition of coaching So it's used in this section coaching means the practice of endeavoring to close the student achievement gap and accelerate learning for all students By building teacher capacity through implementation of effective Instructional practices including the provision of ongoing embedded non-evaluant evaluative professional learning So kind of two approaches there And then More useful Just clarifying questions. So this is because it's pre-k 3 4 5 year olds And not more than one year I'm assuming that that teacher Would be teaching 3 4 5 year olds and if there's more than let's say there's 50 or 30 3 4 5 year olds is a Class size that is Kind of that the school has set up For the maximum class size that does that apply to this situation? Like if there's 30 kids and the public school says the class size of kindergarten is I don't know 15 or something you need additional teachers if they go over the I'm not familiar with the ratios in the public school system What I could tell you is that the rules for the private program They govern health and safety and set forth ratios that would apply to this setting So, you know the ratios the oh not off the top of my head 10 to 1 that sounds right Well under two I think it's one to four Yeah, but I can get that for you the specific There are always being taught by a licensed teacher right at all times right So we're but if we're requiring a licensed teacher to be teaching right or coaching in the private In the private the the same requirements for the public school ratios would follow her the private rules which are And it that would would mean so it could be the classroom has 15 children There has to be one classroom teacher, but you could also have a pair of educators It's in terms of that's a more of a safety thing in terms of Yeah, sure you have an appropriate. Yeah, I just didn't know if we needed a teacher for every 10 kids a licensed teacher for every 10 kids We need a licensed teacher Well, I'll let you explain I think we need a licensed teacher For teaching those children, but in terms of the number you have to have Appropriate number of personnel in but they don't all have to be licensed teachers. Is that right? Okay, so that would cover that if you let's say 30 or 25 if you have like three parent educators And one licensed teacher. Let's just say that would cover that if the ratio is 1 to 10 Then yes, then that would cover that it doesn't have to be three licensed teachers under this That's one licensed teacher for the program at ours. Okay. Yeah Then we get people that will be coming in that can Clarify that and give us the precise. Okay, I'm seeing smiling people that have that information Okay I don't remember there was something about When pre-k could happen and there was the question of whether it could happen anytime or within the school year Do we address that? Yeah, I'm struck. So we're back to the original Current language and statute says what this now says, which is has to do an academic year of the school district I have put out a request to get Testimony, I'll just tell you who I've asked and if there are some others that you want. I'm asking The AOE CDD I'm asking the Vermont Association of School Board School Business Officers. I'm asking let's grow kids We'll be asking to be I put out questions related to just comments on the current trip Then thoughts about addressing the double fin of reaching the back of text because we have not yet solved that problem That still exists. I think what we figured is that In terms of the double finger printing In the privates it would only affect the teacher who would have to get double fingerprinted and if they were Fair educators in the school working in a private program, they'd have to be double. So So we're reaching out to see if there's a way that we can address that or not But at least so far it reduces a lot of people that work And we have Questions i'll be related to what happens if AOE or CDD receives a complaint or did we handle that? We uh, that's a brilliant topic. So we didn't handle that. Um, let's actually look at that for a second because There's a reason why we didn't handle it. Um, Which is Okay, so on Uh lines eight through 15 here requires That it be joint rulemaking to provide and administrative process for A parent guardian or provider to challenge an action of a school district or the state When the plan believes that the district or state is in violation of state statute for rules very pre-k education and A school district to challenge an action of a provider or the state Likewise went through these uh, there's a violation So there's already this is current current Language the statute says already a current requirement to have rules that address our grievance process And there are I believe there are issues with how that's working today Before changing this language I think you have to find out what what the problems are So I didn't put a new grievance process in because there already is one In statute um, and another thing We had an interest in we were talking was in terms of um Some of the invoicing and interesting finding out how is someone is working? Is that okay? Everybody seems to the same case but then find out that um different school districts have different software And that's a complicated thing. So that's one of the things we thought about Is there anybody else that you would want to make sure we hear from in relation to moving forward? Will we get a jfo We haven't we're having money in this at the moment So adding making sure license to the chair as opposed to a coach is giving direct instruction That doesn't increase the cost. That doesn't affect the general fund Or the fund directly so it we're not out we get a fiscal note if we're asking for some money Okay, and that goes out to the yeah, however the one question we have not addressed and we have had a conversation about um expanding uh providing some kind of um Grants or or support for districts or for regions to consider um looking at Pre-K coordinator That's a topic that's still under discussion. I don't think we will discuss that what we want to do with that yet Whether we just let it Happen organically or whether we start to look at oh, I know I spoke with Spoke with us. I think the superintendents that they might be able to use our map and point out Where we have Pre-K coordinators, which I think would be very helpful to say where are the holes? I think it'll be very helpful. Yeah Particularly if we could look at it in terms of just one a pre-K coordinator for this area Then here's another area There's one for this entire supervisor union one for the supervisor union one for the supervisor union And that's what meg was meg was Meg was one for us for the three districts and Yes, and um, also several was one for 12 supervisor unions by point so Um, is Kelly Kelly Paella for the record, uh, I Do have a question actually about talking to jfo about Potentially running some numbers. Um, and I'm not sure how complicated it would be but if The new requirements are going to be to have licensed teachers in the private programs providing direct instruction And I think some of the drive behind that is improving quality and I also think there's I hope there's an expectation that those um, licensed teachers would be able to be paid in a more similar fashion to teachers in public settings That's certainly a part of the conversation. It seems like The increase in salaries to those teachers in private programs Would drive up tuition rates at private providers Which Not knowing exactly how the amount of tuition that gets Sent to private providers is calculated. I that increase in tuition rates might affect that number I'm not sure because I don't know what the math looks like But it would certainly affect how much cc fat money Qualified families would be getting because those rates are market rates And even though we've not done a good job at keeping up with what the current market rates are if tuition costs continue to climb The cost to the cc fat program will continue to climb. So I know it doesn't fall under the ed fund but It's it's going to happen somewhere in the private provider world If you'd like to sort of organize that question I know it's like it took me to organize that question And um It took it to me and I and I will if that took to me and to mark Okay, and we can certainly um take a look at that Just to clear that we were not asking this to the bill has changed the number of required hours that a licensed teacher be present But if you're requiring that a licensed teacher be in Each classroom providing direct instruction for all of those 10 hours That's a big change from what is currently happening in Some programs. Oh, I I always think so it's like a center where They're the license first. I might be the director right now. You're going to have to have a classroom for those hours Yeah, so for example the ones that that we visited Um Oh Right And if you have multiple if you have Somewhere has enough students that they have a classroom for three-year-olds and a classroom for four-year-olds Then each program is going to have to have two licensed teachers and they may not be Doing that. So right now is your question trying to quantify if the privates costs go up and they're required to Raise their tuition and pass that cost along to parents. Uh-huh. So so far with you Then what will the impact Then I lost the thread. What will the impact be on The amount of tuition that is coming out of the ed fund for those vouchers How is that calculated and do the market rates affect what that end result is? And then how will that affect the market rates for CC FAP subsidies so should the value voucher go accordingly that we're asking Um, I guess that's a question or should that go accordingly or should you just rely on the CC FAP subsidy to cover that presumed increase Um keeping in mind that not everybody qualifies Or CC FAP money I would suggest that uh, Set up we set up a private conversation with mark To kind of give him a little bit oriented on what we're looking for And happy to help you It's limited up here Okay other people I think we're starting to get closer at people how people respond react into what we're doing so far Some we're going in the right direction. I'm comfortable. Yeah. Yeah The goal again at least my goal is to stabilize Um and give us a chance to move forward Uh, as opposed to drawing in anything really exciting to do Move that to another body Um, thank you very much and please thank Katie for us as well. Um, I Haven't figured out how we address the idea of Um of pre-K coordinators But I think that's a conversation that just needs to happen Outside of the room Thank you very much Okay, so we're gonna continue on we'll get more testimony. Um, I know that the aoe is working on coming in and I know we've got So these here Um I've also got a question into the aoe related to special ed We have two problems that were occurring. One is the bill. It's on the wall that carol and partridge Brought in relation to special ed funding for children in pre-k And then we have another one that apparently is a challenge that's up in cambridge to just help us Understand a little bit better. Um, how special ed funding goes. I don't see a solution right now to how we address Serving children who are outside of the district Okay, we have a break. Um I have nitch leavenson who is the author of the dmg report Um, he's gonna Skype in with us Related to what we're working on literacy in our shift to Build from the dmg report um addressing the concern about about literacy and capacity at the local level so, um Just give me an opportunity to talk with him um Take us a little bit off the road that we've been on Moving to a little bit broader scope In how we're looking at literacy and how it relates to dmg This is an opportunity for us to step a little bit out of the remorse that we have I'll have a chance to participate in you deeply But at the same time to continue on with the work that we really need to do to Do in the fact that we're well aware that our reading scores are a challenge and that children aren't Progress into a degree that we would think that they certainly could So you're on break that unless there's anything else I've been what's that about Thank you so much dr. Leavenson. We so appreciate your time In case when the the chair of house education. I was the ranking member when you presented your report Students who need additional support. I think that there are five of us that were here then And the other six are new to that. So I'm just going to have my members introduce themselves Sure. I'm dealing geometry staff from s6 junction Caleb elder from starksboro Serita austin from cold chester chris maddox milton larry kubo you brought home city Kathleen james manchester Casey toof st. Owens Lynn bachelor from the northeast kingdom derby And also in the room. We have um a member of the principles association. Hey jays here jays there. Yeah Good say about it. And we have um a representative from the agency of education Keegan is a And we have a representative from the teachers association Fallen robinson and butter from the superintendent's association. I know it's healthy. And then of course we have avry who keeps us keeps us sane We are you missed the interest we so appreciated the work that you did Um in helping us figure out how we're going to address the needs of our students in the individual support And we took to heart your recommendation that we put a focus on literacy To that effect we found ourselves Entering into the we were on the battlefield of the reading wars In which I assure you know plenty about And we are now sort of backing off from some of the language in terms of you know What we were looking at to actually looking at literacy in terms of the recommendations that you made Much of which really involves getting the the sustained coaching in the schools on What it takes to deliver a quality of our test scores are not very good For our state. So that's a motivation But what it is that we can do to get that the sustained coaching in the schools to enhance our literacy instruction So I guess I've been looking at you For some guidance at the moment. I think we're a little bit focused on the idea of graphs to districts and Looking at you know Happens to be um Picking the right criteria to choose the schools that are the excuse me. I'm not schools regions We're looking at regional support. Um, we're too small to do schools and school school districts, but looking at regional support And we're looking at the idea of consultants to help regions develop systems And I guess I'm just looking to you to give us some guidance on how we might get that support on the ground In our in our in our schools Sure. I'm happy to To give you this conversation and appreciate the opportunity I think a couple of framing has points I'd like to make which Those problems One is when we first shared our findings go back a while now The these were pretty big changes and I don't want to undermine or short shrift that These were recommendations to do things quite differently For reasons that are historically interesting, which I won't dive into Working across the entire state of your mind Um, there was not nearly focus on what was all Poor instruction that cured one that seemed that every student gets And within that focus Jumping really frank and very respectful Literacy wasn't treated as our amount as it was in most other cities That was the first kind of big find that I wanted to keep in your mind The second is that When districts do think and value Our times literacy because some certainly did They overwhelmingly Our times support in very very small groups delivered by Not particularly highly skilled Teachers not people who you know, some of them students working So funded by the strongest teachers in many cases people who are teachers at all Um In the time since we have shared those findings and Tons of dozens of forms There has been a Round swell of desire to move in this direction More so Then I've seen almost anywhere. I've worked in 28 states over 200 school systems And I want to acknowledge that when we asked people to think bigger changes than usual And we're at a stage now where Superintendents, principals, special directors, many teachers are saying hey, these are really good things that we want to do So I want to acknowledge that we're in a very powerful place if you have a lot of folks who want to go here And that's half the battle Other thing I want to point out Is that as you know, you have lots of small districts Your largest districts are small compared to everybody else And these are big lists To the central offices and school leadership teams that are fresh very thin So I say that for my belief is that you have very willing Parties who want to go here. What they lack is manpower Acities of support So it's not a lack of interest. It's just very small teams or a very cool place Uh, the third point I want to make is in our interviewing and you know, we spent over 40 days traveling across the state interviewing teachers Um, everybody told us the following We're so glad you came to my school because we are so different than every other school in the state And everybody in my team called me and said hey And another place that there's some different from everybody else if you're not Um, here are oh yes, there are differences The difference is a lot of commonalities. So we really believe that the efficiency and uh, The support should be as you mentioned across multiple districts Of it's not the school by school or district by district and there is enough common need And enough common interest That's going to be better. The last thing I want to acknowledge Is this is as much a political challenge And a funding challenge As it is a technical hey, this is good practice. Don't do it Um, but the three things that have to change And this is where I am finally going to answer your question What the look for and the room where you want to support The three things that have to change is yes, we've got to change practice in the classroom Um, because you want to look for schools and districts that believe in those changes And we think there are many many many that are out there Once you believe in those changes two other things are going to have to happen or a number of things are going to happen The one is you're going to need to spend your dollars differently Not more money, but differently And that is a that's a political question as much as it is an economic question Are you willing to invest in highly skilled teachers? Are you willing to invest in Highly skilled learners and coaches? Are you willing to to efficient reduce the reliance on Um, our professionals, are you willing to cross the boundaries and think about not just Special Ed or general Ed, but all kids who struggle more holistically And so if you've got districts that are both Little psychologically on board, but also will you shift their funds? That would be the second On a criteria. I would be looking if let's sort of accelerate these improvements Um, and the third would be Uh districts that are willing to do this through the long walk This is not a come in for three months or six months and train some people to disappear This is a systemic change It is a change that it probably took you 20 to 25 years to get where you are These are kinds of changes to take a couple of years doesn't mean you can't start making change In a few months. So these are two to three year efforts. So you're looking for places That are committed over the long walk. Let me How is there So I'm here for an advice as you like I'm going to turn to my committee members and I actually given the people that we have in the room I'm going to open it up for you to ask questions as well So if you have a question, please let me know Anything so far from from us from the members When you say change practice, did you just expand on that just a little sure Right now, and I'm going to over generalize when we did look at you know, we interviewed You know over 500 staff you got schedules from over a thousand people What we saw as a practice Was that I'm a classroom teacher Um classroom teachers told us themselves over and over again They are not a hundred percent sure how to reach all of their students So when you've got two thirds of your kids in the state, we have a rainbow So if we know how to teach two thirds again The teachers are saying i'm not sure what to do for the other third they want to but they said they're not sure Um, but they do seem to do but they're not sure He didn't send them to the special ed Send them to our professional For our faith and intervention and expert help with those institutions Um, those are not That's not the right game plan With the internal ability to say the difference between a real and an enabler is that a real has an answer In 2020 We have About how to be treated the national reading panel will all work square in housing any case of foundation There is a set of practices That work for both students Um that knowledge is not widely known For processing but that's so that's what we are changing the practices Now that is both a form of instruction Which is what everybody gets that you're also going to have to support that With intervention extra And it's not one for the other And we saw too much rush to intervention And not a real focus I'm getting that foundational instruction Where he did today Thank you Yeah Nate I I apologize. I'm going to bring you into the bigger battle we're reading But you said there's a set of practices that work for most students Are you telling me about structured literacy? Um, so the practices that work for most students Typically goes under the name of balanced literacy It says that All kids need to be listened to have been trained for payment awareness That is how they process sounds They need to be taught products And yes, that was part of that literacy war or whether products is a good word or not Products is important. It is not the end goal, but it's a necessary ingredient We need to explicitly teach fluency We need to explicitly teach Uh vocabulary and you need to explicitly teach comprehension when you do those five things Most people learn to read Uh, there are different ways of teaching those things Uh, when the ingredients need to be there They need to be taught well And I think maybe the biggest shift Is to recognize that teaching kids to read or hitting kids or struggling That is a very high and specialized skill We as adults we all read When I read at a college level But I'm not actually able to teach a third grade or how to read I don't have that training And I think acknowledging that the teacher skill is really important Is part of that, um Of those best practices And at least my sense is, you know, I've We've done a lot of work in the state I have been sort of working with maybe 30 or Maybe even 40 districts across the state now We are seeing very wide spread of support Uh, for moving in this direction I think what we're also seeing In people saying, hey, we want to go here, but this is hard We need some help But at least I don't want to underplay the difficulties, but I don't think there's a philosophical objection To this direction. I think there's just a A plea for support to help us get there Other questions from the room? Jay, Chelsea? Nate, if there were Oh, sorry Chelsea Myers VSA, Nate, if there were Any support in the form of money, um, how would you suggest assessing regions for The allocation of those funds? Um, so I do think that Um, creating cohorts of small systems that are moving in this direction is helpful Um, you know, again, it's from an economic point of view It's just as expensive to help one district as it is 10 And we want to be cost effective But I think from the, um, adaptive change It's actually easier to help 10 than one You know, I used to be a superintendent Uh, there's, I think I'd say that The nail that sets up gets hammered down If I'm the first one, we only want to move in this direction That can bring a lot of attention, not in a good way But if 10 districts say you really want to do it because it's the right thing That actually makes it easier Um, I think the other question about how do you form a cohort is Some, because I mentioned pastoral thinking but have seriously That, um, everybody thinks they're unique A lot of people to perhaps opt into Um, some districts who are serving more kids in poverty Would probably prefer to be in a total cohort with other districts that are similar to demographic And districts that are serving more middle class or ethnic communities Who would probably prefer Now they both need help But I think they themselves might self-select cohorts that are Are more similar to themselves As if that's something they want to think about Um, I think the question for you all is how do you assess the willingness to make meaningful change? Um, because that's what we're looking for Um, and again, I believe it's out there I think it would be important that this was perceived as both a general ed and a special ed effort So you want to see a real commitment and participation both by Whoever's in charge of general ed teaching and learning and whoever's in charge of special education It's a joint effort Certainly you want to see a commitment and active participation by the superintendent Um, this kind of change doesn't happen without a superintendent's support That's what I would be looking for Colin from the NEA, yeah Hi Nate, um Based upon your experience Whether it's regionally or nationally, but also with the districts you've worked in for mine You alluded to kind of we got here over the course of several decades What type of time horizon in your experience is needed to Realize the systems change that you're envisioning here in a way that is sustainable and practical for All parties involved This is a two to three year implementation It will continue for three to five years But I think a solid two to three years of implementation They think that It has to be done with teachers not to teachers The teachers we met want to move in this direction, but they want and need and deserve help and support That's where you know coaching that's where we get scheduled where There are no villains or bad guys in this but the teachers follow us that Are they all have a number of kids? They're not sure what to do Um Really definitive on this this way of adding some people, but here's what not to do When we refer to the fit and get professional development We're a very smart person But with me who somebody else comes in there's a lot of teachers in the room And we tell them what to do Now mind you, I know what to tell them We know what the national freedom panel says. We know that's what works better now But we can talk to teachers tell them what to do And then send them on their way and how it'll happen That isn't how change in this magnitude happens So what you need to do is yes share these practices with teachers So then for five coaching support Even though for five You know forms for teachers to say hey, I tried this, but it's not working. Help me I need to have teachers tell you and they will Hey, I'm doing my part, but we don't have enough reading teacher So we don't have a schedule that allows pretty dimension for our IEPs aren't supporting this Is a systems change where teachers need to be Wakerly consulted to hear what they need and then The kind of support you want to be providing Has to include helping people regret IEPs on a program We do schedules when we need If there's a missing link in this Or a weak link in this effort There's no partial credit. That's the one thing I should mention Is those best practices I share If you do some of them, but not all of them, you don't get some of the benefit And I think we're often defined Not the places we work if the superintendent isn't part of the process of teachers are part of the process If I specialise often in the process, there ends up being a mistake or a weak link or two And then people get very frustrated because if you're saying hey, I should be doing this. I'll give you one example All kids should get 90 minutes of instruction in reading You can't be pulling students out of their students' mind when sharing reading Kids who struggle Need extra time to learn from highly skilled teachers Well, if I don't have any of those in my building, what am I supposed to do? So it really is a process where So if you look at what ingredients are there, what ingredients are missing Work through the staff thing, the budgeting, the scheduling To get all those ingredients there. The most frustrating thing you can do Is to put half the pieces in place Ask the teachers to do it And then they get angry and we get disappointed that things aren't changing Well, if you go to a forecast, they weren't going to change because not all the pieces were there And so that's why it's multi-year That's why it's a system-staking approach Why it's more than just For going to lecture and why we need that very regular feedback The folks on the top lines The school board's association Yes, Andrew Cameron, my name My question is about development of an assessment of the systems And if you could you speak to use of the DNG report to develop a system of assessment Sure So there is a very, as I said, the good news is Wriggle that in a cut. We know what to do or we know what to do in place I think that there are The ability to create, say, a tool that says Do you know where you have these elements? Kids' rent will be straightforward The passion I would have, and again, there are ways to do this house effectively It is hard to self-assess So I'm just, I know this is very It will surprise some of you coming from an insult But I want to fact that it's super candid on the other side of the table most of my life People do, there's a lot of research that says people overestimate How much, what they're actually doing So I think the question is how do you create self-assessment But also some kind of low cost, rapid external review Confirmation or pushback It's a huge, if you're doing products If you're doing it 10 minutes a week, and when we said product in that 20 minutes a day And so I think you want to be cautious about it And continue to have self-assessment Not because people are in disarmament, but because people are people Thank you Dr. Levinson, you worked with several districts in our state, as I remember How many, do you remember how many districts you worked with? I think it is quite new I'll be worked with 30 or more So far so good So these districts, it's interesting because we've spoken with some of those districts that did work with you And they also appear to be quite a bit ahead Of some of the others in terms of readiness to do this So I guess what my question is, is there a preparatory phase Before we bring in literacy or do you think we can actually build in the Structures that that you're talking about Into you know Expanding literacy So the answer is yes and no Here's what's to the right line between where I say yes and where I say no When we first started, and I think this goes back almost six years When we first started working with districts in the state, maybe even seven I had more hair than for sure That much of what we were saying was shocking People weren't ready for And it took a nine month process Of one of the very first districts you worked with, I won't tell you who it is I told me that when we presented our findings, they got our report There was silence in the room People didn't know what to say Or even whether they could breathe Because it was, whoa, this is so different from what we have been doing In the seven years, we have presented probably 45 times in those seven years We have worked in the different associations, principal associations, school boards association Superintendents association, those folks we've worked with have popped We're not in the same state of where this was shocking As people's breath were being taken away So I would say for districts, and this will be the hardest part to assess from an instance, but for districts who have said I get this and I want to do it I think we can start right in and help them And I think that is more than half the difference In the same For districts that are thinking, you know I kind of like what we're doing It kind of makes sense to me And the only problem is I need a few more power professionals and a little less emphasis on testing and you guys got to Understand that we've got some kids in poverty who may or may not be done in a great level For those places where they're not Actually, philosophically, but in Which again, I think is less than half, but more than a quarter They do need to go through that preparatory work That we did over those other districts And again, I think when we did seven years ago, almost everybody needed that Not everybody. I can tell you what a few families did, but the majority did Today It's a smaller number and in my sense is that superintendents and special ed directors Uh would be a good judge Of whether they think they are ready for what I would call the free work whether they need that free work Or whether they're ready to jump in But I think even close that choice Uh might be very valuable You have to be ready to do this Okay Hi Nate, it's Jay. What about, um College preparatory programs any thoughts on that one of the one of the things that we're seeing is that New teachers coming into the field they're 22 23 years old. I give you very little instruction on how to actually keep literacy Yeah, so this is our hope a rent and Not our scope. Yeah Not unique Here is the fact that this is nationwide But Vermont is still in that pattern If I'm an elementary classroom teacher Two things are true There's nothing more important than my ability to teach reading particularly to a wide range of students Uh with very different boarding styles to use That's the first thing that I know to be true The second thing I know is that I as a brand new teacher Will have very little tutorial training and how to do that Um about five years ago Big studies came out and said well most elementary classroom teachers In america have either zero or one class in how to teach reading based on the best practices In the five years since that study came out It hasn't changed a lot So I don't know why um The training of teachers Included us, you know what the teachers we meant for not Want this advice want this training? And you know that many of them Don't have Thank you There's a recent report out from the national council on teacher quality That's now looking at rating schools in terms of the five Areas of nursing and we have We have a range of scores in our state mainly a and b but we also have one half so We're concerning um Other questions We're trying to get a plan to move forward that would likely be grants that we would be offering to to The regions to Folks who work together collaboratively To help so, um It's not a small task It's not a small task. Um success indicators What would you what do you use as success indicators? So I I think there are Three Didn't they make changes? And you know here's a short list of just things that you could be doing and measured Are all kids getting 9 minutes of literacy or the game will have Is there intervention for all kids who struggle not just the kids that you import to support? Um, who is providing Um the intervention They're our professionals special educators highly skilled teachers are ready. Um, those are all the structural changes Um, are you having How many teachers are getting coaching? So that's kind of that. Did you make the change? kind of indicators That's a good start because if you didn't do those things It's just highly unlikely good things are going to happen Also, our kids with or not disabilities getting Getting good things because very often we find Um, kids with disabilities by our disabilities are unintentionally excluded from us Uh for all sorts of weird reasons not a wish for the second set of things Um, so that's like did you make the changes? Then the second set of change the second set of measures would be are you seeing growth? Of building a year's growth among students who started the year five And the nice thing about that measure Is you can actually see that move at three and six months and certainly within a year of implementing So you're not waiting forever to wonder whether this is working I will tell you that it's a super tent when we implemented this We thought for a minute changes in reading the growth In six months in some schools No change and others and I should immediately Where we needed to double down And then the third and obviously the most important measure is farm More more kids particularly kids who have historically not been reading the grade level Action master in reading the grade level Getting to a questions beginning to grade level can take a number of years I predict we've been that young where you're starting And so I do think that that's a reasonable ultimate measure Um, but that's looking at growth more than a year's growth for kids who started Of the year behind because of a very powerful intern measure What they do they expect to seem improved Being simply quite late six months to a year But I do think that there's real value in assessing Did you even put these structural changes in place? Because if you didn't It's just so unlikely That they all other measures will come to their I'm so scared to let you go I just have one question just about assessment Like pre-k through third grade are there any best assessments that You could tell us that like in pre-k screening with flag a kid and then again first and second and third A great point. This is y'all in world in which Many of us have contributed to the field that we do all the awful lot of testing Um, we don't actually on a state level test it up Pre-k to three and read Because that's like knowing that a third grader is behind and reading you've already ruined my life It's so late What you need to do is screen Right, but even with awareness and there are no very good people where the screen is out there in the first 30 days of kindergarten Uh, you need to be doing what's called benchmark assessments every, you know, three times a year There are two or three national use assessments VRA LLI Math, they're all fine There is some value In lots of people using the same one Because if you just kind of compare and contrast and learn from each other But any of the major national measures Are fine. There's no magic to them And then schools have to have a way of assessing Uh student growth in a two to four week window for their kids who struggle Because if I went a month and it improved as a struggling reader That's actually pretty long time. If I go two months and it improved you definitely change what you're doing for me Um, so most district very few states have formal assessments Um, created free But all those all school systems that have provided the close achievement gap Um, absolutely use these national assessments with Very high fidelity Very big schedule They do it quickly. That's really important. You don't want to Um, the teachers don't want to spend a lot of time assessing and they shouldn't Everyone's done well These are quick Very insightful assessment So with this brings up a good, uh question. We are now looking at Are we talking about a screening for dyslexia or are we talking about benchmarks related to say the five Areas of literacy that we've just been talking about There's So our experience is Is if those should be done You should be doing both. Yeah, they're not separate How it's fascinating is dyslexia is a very under-identified very Located and it's not addressed Interestingly, I'm very addressable Again, removal versus enabler. We do as an ancient know what to do And many of the things that you do for kids with dyslexia are similar Then there's some added pieces, but they're not I think we Underline Both the ease and rest of this effort if you think of those as completely separate I don't want to say they're completely the same But dyslexia is one way in which and one reason for which Kids struggle to read and I think finding a way to combine them Uh with sort of teachers and kids so if they're showing up with Delays or certain markers in phonemic awareness, monologous awareness, fluency as compared to say vocabulary and comprehension That sort of gets to gets to it So I I guess I'm trying to see if we should keep the word dyslexia out of this And just focus on those skills which actually are identifiers of dyslexia So The question of the focus on dyslexia separate from strongly readers I mean, there's definitely a political element to that If I'm a parent of a student with dyslexia, I have every reason to be pretty annoyed that they should why It's an underserved And I think they want to know That it's on everybody's radar screen because they are a historically underserved freaking kid At the same time Before you make it separate I think it's going to be harder to help them Harder to help them If dyslexia is separate and unrelated to school-wide efforts to raise literacy So I think it's how do you make sure that kids and parents feel that dyslexia is on The front burner as part of this work Because I think that's a very legitimate concern there But at the same time, I think it will help them by integrating it Into this literacy effort rather than having very separate Very parallel We've actually had several People in our room who either have children or have struggled as well And they from what I'm hearing as we talk if they know that the right instruction is going on in the classroom That they're not going to need they're saying I don't need it as much as long as I know That my child is going to be getting this instruction And why the teacher knows why I agree with that. I think the only thing The only caution again Is to recognize that kids who are likely American public schools Have under-served kids with dyslexia and It's not a real shiny moment and these were kids who we definitely could have helped There are obviously all the struggling readers to serve our health Does this work Chelsea anything else? Um Chelsea my name is from vsa Nate do you mind just making some clarifications of what Screening like pre-screening for risk factors for dyslexia is and going through a full diagnosis process of dyslexia is Yeah, so I think here's my Well All schools should be screening for struggling readers Do you want to leave it awareness and something you can be screening for in kindergarten? Reading on grade level of five areas of literacy that we talked about Just going to be screened for three times a year at least eight through three If you're doing those kind of screening to which I would call benchmark for broad-based screening pools You're going to find all the kids who are struggling to read Including kids with dyslexia. So you're going to know hey hate struggles to read in these areas if Um within that small group of kids who are struggling to read if there are indications of difficulty processing Sounds and the visual cues That may be that may be applied for dyslexia and then you would want to do the deeper doc But if you put that board in general screening you will catch a hundred percent of kids who have dyslexia If you do find that overcast you want to miss nobody but over testing Actually undermines the quality of these efforts teachers and twills feel like they hate hope is constantly testing And not teaching You need to lose momentum So let's again why we like to integrate it and I think dyslexia testing becomes separate and second With in those that small group of struggling readers for some indication that that might be the need I think you're you're focused on benchmarks frequent frequent marks Is probably a key yes And I think we actually have um That that is a recommendation from the agency as well. So we're building some coherence around that. Yeah Coherence being the word we're using a lot of these things And I think the whole way of putting over parent support again I'm not even 50. That's not what I read the district the district I read But we gave these benchmark assessments We sent them home to parents as well so you know Parents seems to have to wonder how's my son or daughter doing reading Are they seeing growth? I'm going to say high level of transparency about both Where was the need and where was the growth and again that helps build support from parents that um Extra test paper Is it necessary because they see that these assessments to be done and they're also having awareness of How their son or daughter if you do it Thank you. Thank you so much Okay, we're very welcome. Happy to jump back down. I had any time in the future to be helpful This is really important work you're doing and appreciate that you are we think so as well And once we get our bill organized to you know draft We'll love to just we can set it off. You would appreciate it Thanks. I'm sorry for that. Thank you so very much. Dr. Levison. This has been a great conversation Hey, we're welcome. Have a great day. We're about to thank you It's a good time and of course we just uh, we've just got a new draft Haven't had a chance to look at it representative web, but thank you for mentioning that I want to thank you all for having me here. It's an honor to be here and Have this conversation with you and share perspective on where we're going with with universal pre-k My name is paul bermann. I'm the director for champlain valley head start We serve the northwest part of the state with head start services, which i'll mention a little bit And i'm also the chair for the vermont head start association A an affiliation of seven head start agencies around the state that serve all of vermont With head start and early head start So i'll start with Just a very quick overview not in my Materials today, but a very quick overview of head start for those who are not completely familiar with the program Head start is a federally funded program. We serve primarily children from families with low income The program's been around since 1965 It is a very robust comprehensive program Early education services center based home based a whole array of services for children and their families We also have early head start, which is a program for pregnant women infants and toddlers and their families Like I said the kids and families that we serve are primarily children and families with low income So it is very critical that we provide a certain level of quality For children and families. We have highly qualified staff We are very rigorously monitored by the federal government that provides the bulk of our funding So i'll tell you a little bit more about head start as we go But that's the quick thumbnail sketch And i also wanted to mention i've been in this role As director for champlain valley head start serving the four northwest county since 1999 So a lot of experience in the early care and education world with a lot of different partners and Providers and i also have a daughter in college. So i am now seeing the full spectrum of education from the very early years Through the later years, which is which is a fascinating experience I want to tell you just very briefly my program champlain valley head start I think uh is somewhat typical programs in vermont for head start We are very highly collaborative programs. So I operate center-based programs In uh collaboration with child care centers in various parts of my region in collaboration with public schools in parts of my region We operate some of our own pre-k programming within public schools where the schools make space available to us And i rent facilities where we provide center-based preschool programming as well as home-based Programs as well. So my program covers the waterfront. We really provide service in just about every venue Every modality you can imagine for service delivery And lastly before i jump in into my testimony I just wanted to qualify some of my comments with I have deep respect for all of the work that this committee is doing wrestling with some some tough things around the evolution of vermont's early care and education system universal pre-k The public schools the private providers all of those roles And lastly my my comments today are not key to The specific legislation that came out this morning or the draft that the iteration that came out this morning It's really commentary on some high-level concepts. I think that the committee is considering So I just wanted to sort of start with that And forgive me. I'm going to try to navigate the the system here and pull up some things as we go And adjust font so that I can read all these items here So i'm going to kind of track through my notes again in terms of testimony and If folks want to you know jump off or ask questions or i'm not sure what the preferred Approaches, but i'm open to pausing talking about some concepts or we can wait till the end Whichever you prefer, but i'll start with an introduction vermont's universal publicly funded pre-k program upk plays a critical role in ensuring that all of vermont's children Have access to high quality early care and education programs So as to assure child health and safety and enhance child outcomes around social and emotional development Physical and mental health and nutrition for young children all prerequisites for school readiness and lifelong success This sort of mission statement, if you will Really tracks well with the ultimate mission statement for head start the work that I do which is really geared around School readiness for young children have having children ready for their experiences They enter kindergarten and for lifelong success and I have four major recommendations that Relate to the some of the concepts that the committee is is considering with this legislation And those are the following for the next phases of vermont's universal pre-k system First is keeping joint administration and oversight of the upk system with vermont agency of human services ahs and vermont agency of education aoe And i'll go into detail on all of these pieces momentarily Keep one set of regulations the licensing regulations for center-based child care and preschool programs or licensing regulations This is my prop for all center-based upk programs public and private Keep and enhance the existing monitoring system and i'll define that in a moment Currently administered by the vermont child development division licensing unit to assess program compliance with licensing regulations And i want to pause here for a moment Just to explain when I when I use the word monitoring in the course of my testimony What i'm referring to is monitoring for compliance with these regulations Uh, mon the word monitoring gets used in several different contexts in these conversations including Compliance with the actual law around universal pre-k and all of those elements That's not what i'm referring to when i reference monitoring talking about actually meeting regulations And lastly something that does not exist yet in vermont implement a state-based Training and technical assistance system to support all providers around continuous improvement and compliance So those are the four main points that i'd like to share with the committee This afternoon and the following the rest of my testimony is really the rationale for these These these concepts so in terms of keeping joint administration and oversight of the upk system With a vermont agency of human services a hs and vermont agency of education aoe First and I think it's it's well known The early years are absolutely paramount Early care and education is important because the earliest years of a child's life from pre natal through age five Of the most critical years of brain development and architecture The early care and education of a child Inform the trajectory of the child's life and contribute to the quality of life in our society for our children Families individuals and communities High quality early care and education programs can be conceptualized As follows and I encourage us to think about them this way early care connotes Prioritizing the health and safety of the young children that we serve when I talk about early care and education There's a reason in my mind that it is phrased this way and it is sequenced this way and that is because Early the health and safety of the children is job number one and must come first We must focus on issues such as active supervision of children Maintaining healthy safe and hygienic environments First aid and cpr training for providers and other aspects of high quality care As parents when our children are in the care of others Our greatest concern is that our children are kept healthy and safe and I've had this conversation with many parents Throughout the decades and I can tell you from personal experience when I entrust My young child or when I did many years ago to the care of other people If there can be child development services delivered, that's great First and foremost, I want her kept healthy and safe while she's in the care of other people So that's what I mean by early care Education for me connotes child development, which is a subset of human development Utilizing elements in our field such as research based curriculum assessment and quality teaching practices to support the skills Proficiencies and attributes we seek to cultivate in children such as social and emotional development Language literacy and so forth which support children for success in school and throughout their lives The professional care and education of very young children is a much different endeavor For example, then the professional care and education of older children think middle school Or college students, right? So at different points in the continuum of age Different types of care are required because young children first and foremost are incredibly Vulnerable. They are physically the most vulnerable. They will ever be in their lives And preschool children in particular are very precocious It is an age group that requires a lot of vigilance and a lot of specialized care and number two The children are in the most rapid phase of brain development of their entire lives So the education piece of what we do the child development piece of what we do is also extremely critical I told my staff recently. I said, you know You guys are like neurosurgeons You are actually setting the framework for the architecture of children's brains that is going to inform the entirety of the rest of their lives This is the importance and the gravity of the work And this is the reason that state governments and our federal government sometimes struggle when trying to identify Which agency or agencies should administer these programs now in head start for example It is the u.s. Department of Health and Human Services It is not the u.s. Department of Education Which administers the program is that the right fit? I don't know if I look for up to me I might actually uh decide on a hybridized oversight similar to what we have in vermont for universal pre-k joint administration Collaboration and inspired leadership are essential to bring the best of all worlds to early care and education In vermont, we initially got it right with joint administration of the upk system by ahs and aoe Because this endeavor calls for a uniquely blended approach tailored to the care and developmental needs of this age group Yes In head start for example is the u.s. Department of Health and Human Services Not the u.s. Department of Education which administers the program Does the which administers the program go with the Department of Health or u.s. Department of Education? I'm sorry representative wet the the um u.s. Department of Health and Human Services is the is the oversight Correct. Yes. Yes. Thank you So As I was saying this endeavor calls for a uniquely blended approach Tailored to the care and developmental needs of this age group To bring the best support to vermont's early care and education system Requires the best of vermont's ahs and aoe working together There is a perception perhaps true I don't know the history of this but I will share what I what I know in the perceptions I've heard that in the early days of vermont's upk system Senior officials from these agencies ahs and aoe were unable to collaborate effectively And to my knowledge those officials are no longer in their positions And a legacy of non-cooperation should not dictate our path forward So when I hear suggestions that we bifurcate the system in terms of its oversight I think this is the genesis of this and it concerns me Collaboration is work. It is necessary especially in governance if we are to properly serve our communities We should not be proposing legislative changes to avoid the necessary work of effective collaboration to serve our society Rather we should support the vermont's spirit of inspired leadership and collaboration And keep joint administration and oversight of the upk system with vermont agency of human services and vermont agency of education That's my first piece second piece Keep one set of regulations as I said the licensing regulations for center-based child care and preschool programs or licensing regulations For all center-based upk programs public and private vermont's licensing regulations Took years of intensive work to develop I recall quite vividly when the state was working on This iteration of these regulations Which was probably 20 years in the making and it was probably a two and a half year intensive effort To finalize these regulations the process engaged national experts Local stakeholders and early care and education providers Participants and advisors included Licensing and program quality staff in the vermont child development division And representatives from vermont department of health vermont agency of education and vermont department of mental health At the heart of these regulations are assurances around child health and safety And what is critical to me about those assurances Around child health and safety is that they were informed by another resource called caring for our children or cfoc National health and safety performance standards Guidelines for early care and education programs. Now cfoc Is not regulations. These are not regulations. These are standards around best practice for the care and education of young children They represent You know, I'm also looking at the bells. Yes, and do these oh does this overlap with this or align with this I think I think it aligns, but they're they're actually different types of resources So the bells might guide things like the preschool instruction, right? So so quality teaching practice Whereas caring for our children are really best practice standards around the health and safety of children in care Correct, sure national health and safety standards Which experts believe should be in place where children are cared for outside of their homes This national resource and I encourage you to google it. You can download this resource in its entirety Is a joint collaborative project created and periodically updated by the american academy of pediatrics american public health association And national resource center for health and safety in child care and early education Support for this project is provided by the maternal and child health bureau health resources and services administration With the us administration of health and human services The cfoc guidelines inform vermont's existing regulations for licensed or registered early care and education programs Including both public and private pre-k programs and provide Strong assurances around the health and safety of all of vermont's young children served through upk programs We should not propose to develop a second Parallel set of regulations for public upk providers Resulting in systemic bifurcation through two sets of regulations First there's no need to reinvent this wheel, right? And there are significant concerns as to where this would lead at best And I have deep concerns about this because first and foremost I'm an advocate for child health and safety and i've been at this work a long long time And if anyone tells you that any provider is doing a plus work around child health and safety I'd like to see that because I see a lot of concern in the field which i'll share with you momentarily A second set of regulations in my mind If at best if we were fortunate might actually arrive at the same conclusions that are represented in this set of regulations Around child health and safety at worst we could arrive at regulations Which dilute the health and safety assurances for one group of children A two-tier system is not an equitable system And is extremely worrisome in its implications around child health and safety Two sets of parallel regulations one for public one for private would be an example of governmental inefficiency and not what taxpayers like to see Allow the administrative rules process to make thoughtful and targeted changes. We are needed A comprehensive work group that included representatives from 32 school districts and the child development division met for a year 2018 to 2019 to identify regulations in this resource that were duplicative Of criteria already monitored in schools and or that did not apply to schools In the end there were close to 30 regulations that were changed and at least eight that were identified as regulations That schools should be exempt from These proposed changes and or exemptions do not focus on child health or safety Most of those changes or exemptions pertain to administrative burdens on schools and rightfully they should be alleviated This process the proposed changes or exemptions are making their way through the administrative rules process now I will pause and say that is the scalpel rather than the sledgehammer approach and that is the approach that I encourage third Keep and enhance the existing monitoring system currently administered by the romant child development division Licensing unit to assess program compliance with licensing regulations as I said at the outset When I refer to monitoring just to be clear what i'm referring to is assuring compliance with this set of regulations Which right now governs all All licensed providers public and private throughout the state These regulations do not enforce themselves having the regulations alone is not enough It requires resources to assure compliance with regulations and the outcomes those regulations are designed to achieve Such as child health safety and optimal development The child development division licensing unit employs a team of people Who visit and monitor early care and education programs throughout the state public and private To assure that programs are in compliance with the licensing regulations Some of the most prevalent health and safety non-compliances Noted by licensing in 2019 include child immunizations Immunization data or reports not properly filed lack of positive guidance for children staff to child ratios not maintained Lack of first aid cpr training for staff lack of child supervision fire extinguishers missing evacuation drill logs missing Emergency response plans missing. This list is not unique to either public or private providers This is aggregate data for providers around the state Although these non-compliances were detected by the licensing unit The reality is that vermont still does not have proper capacity to assure that all providers receive at least one monitoring visit per year This this brings us to licensor capacity vermont licensor caseload in vermont is currently around 120 to 130 programs per licensor Data from the 2014 child care licensing study Indicates that the average caseload nationally is about 97 centers and homes per licensor The national association for regulatory administration or nara recommends that an average caseload not exceed 50 to 60 programs per licensor A bifurcated system would provide no assurances that even the level of monitoring which exists today Continues to exist for all providers Developing a parallel monitoring system Exclusively for public pre-k providers is not realistic and would not be an efficient use of resources vermont should keep and enhance The existing monitoring system Currently the licensing unit to assess program compliance with licensing regulations And invest resources to reduce licensor to provider ratios Increase frequency of monitoring and transparency of monitoring data and move toward national best practice My last recommendation Is to implement a state-based Training and technical assistance system to support all providers around continuous improvement and compliance And this system would support both public and private providers Capacity to detect non-compliance is not enough There must be capacity to help programs maintain compliance Correct non-compliance and engage in continuous program improvement I know this firsthand very well because in head start a federal system There is not only program monitoring which is very robust But an entire training and technical assistance system which any program can access That t and ta can take the form of support around program systems and services policies and procedures Staff training and other aspects it can focus on elements of child health and safety Early childhood education workforce development or other areas relative to the work This type of system enables programs to be proactive in assuring compliance and continuous improvement It is also deployed when non-compliance is detected to support programs in achieving and maintaining compliance and best practice Vermont should develop a similar robust tta system to support all early care and education providers Both public and private While distinct from the monitoring system these systems can work in tandem to help assure the high quality of vermont's early care and the education system Thank you. Thank you Yes We looked at joint oversight and rulemaking and looked at Current law is joint oversight Draft 2.1 is separate overnight in bifurcated overnight in rulemaking Two other options were to put all oversight and rulemaking into one agency or the other And what we ended up in the current draft is separate oversight, but joint rulemaking So a number of the issues that you're concerned about actually end up in rulemaking And that they need to be um comparable So I think and I'd be interested to see if it just It's sort of like you have to do this, but you don't have a whole agency to come to live it Which we heard from the ground Nobody's happy with both those I could rally a group of people Everybody was worried Everybody was worried about about what are the other but the complexity is We have a program that has traditionally been housed more in human services But it's also an education program using education fund money So you get the agency with that So what we've attempted to do is just make it so that the monitoring each side will be able to do the monitoring Each side will be able to handle Technical support But when it comes to the health and safety and the requirements to run a safe Uh and program that is also Addressing the educational needs then we need to line it up, right? Well, yeah, no, I appreciate where you're saying representative web I I've thought about this quite a bit, uh, not just in the last few weeks But in the last several years as uh, you know, this this concept has sort of come coming on And and a few things occur to me, uh, you know, one is um, you know, I as I think my my testimony reflects I think early care and education Is a very different thing than the education and care of older children And as as right, and I think the the hybrid approach if you will You know of focusing on the best of human services and the best of education to bring to this age group Given the needs of this age group is the most inspired approach And and if uh, if you'll allow it, you know, I thought recently it's sort of I I keep thinking about it's You know, I feel like Abraham Lincoln trying to keep the union together Yeah, I just I'm not a fan of splitting the union because of you know, these different camps and and you know And I think you know the agencies are pretty monolithic and I I appreciate that but I I guess I believe in the in the power of Of inspired leaders to come together and collaborate for the benefit of our communities and especially for young children and their families So I use do you think that um if you were an early childhood educator early childhood special educator That you might be missing some critical parts of features that you might be getting from services If it if it were split In terms of training in terms of training Yes, I mean this goes to my my last recommendation around having a state based training and technical assistance system That could serve both the private and public providers all and I and I think that that would be optimal in terms of Everyone receiving the same kinds of supports So that again, there's a there's a broader lens being brought to serving young children That incorporates all the best of these health elements safety elements and early education and child development pieces And yet A school with 350 kids a principal music teacher custodian Of the person in the cafeteria It's quite different than retired grandma kates child care and pre-kate program with seven children Sure. No, I know I I don't disagree with that and like I said, you know And my my experience with that is operating pre-k in almost all of these different venues, right? So so my program we operate in collaboration with child care centers In collaboration with schools where we're blending staffing and we have blended groups of children some in head start some community slots Programs that I operate independently within schools and then programs that I operate independently in facilities that we rent So I don't want there to be any sort of different sorts of standards Monitoring and yet I don't want there to be different approaches for supporting these programs But at the end of the day, it's really not about administering my program My ultimate concern is the children is that the children are receiving the best That all of us have to offer and and the only way I see that taking place Is in a in a world where we are collaborating to bring the best of these agencies together to serve children and their families Absolutely, I know I I know that absolutely. I sure do. Yeah, just just advocacy Yeah Just to go back to your first bullet In terms of prioritizing health and safety, we've heard a lot this week about from children entering The public schools the impact of trauma. Oh, yeah On learning and just in terms of child management behavior management. Yes Um, how do you I don't know how to say this? I want to say it nicely, but how do you Kind of identify children because again the earlier I think we can identify to get intervention and the better It is for the child. So I'm just wondering. I know you're probably under the mandate In terms of reporting, you know, but how what would be Kind of just a little bit less than that just observing or And intervening either with the family or getting support for the family because You probably may be able to identify kids. I'm glad you asked that. That's an excellent question So, you know, I don't know how much you've heard and how much the committee has discussed this But we're seeing child behavioral issues today More so than we have ever seen in my 20 plus years of administering this program The president of uvm said, you know, what was he concerned about and it was mental health mental health trauma aces adverse child experiences I have a lot of conversations with folks around, you know, what are the What are the causes of a lot of the behavioral issues that are presenting today? And I hear varying accounts. I hear screen time. I hear opiates. I hear parents distracted by technology I hear all sorts of, you know, anecdotes around what the causes are And we won't be able to remediate all of those causes But this is where the hybrid approach to me is absolutely critical. So the direct answer to your question is We're doing screenings and assessments right from the get go For children entering the program. So for example, we're doing behavioral and developmental screenings and assessment in our case We use what's called ages and stages questionnaire for developmental screening and ages and stages social and emotional For behavioral concerns, and we're working very very closely with the da's with the designated agencies In our region and throughout the state These are some of the reasons that this hybrid approach is absolutely critical because it isn't just physical health issues And safety that i am concerned about but it's the mental health issues that you're Suggesting and children are connected to families that are likewise Experiencing trauma have had and i'm not just talking about low-income families and i'm not talking about behavioral issues Unique to children from families with low income. We're seeing this across the board from all socioeconomic strata So do you have something where you also work not work with parents but develop these really kind of caring relationships with parents, so There's a trust there in terms of being able to talk to them or you know, not in Fringe yourself into that or in hope. Yeah, but just to kind of Recognize that someone may be struggling in that You know, I I guess it's tricky because in terms of reporting and stuff like that But just this you know this development of a family. Yes, you know the child in the context of a family Absolutely. Yeah, and and and as you said and I think you said it Well, you know part of part of our mission and and this is perhaps unique to the some of the work that we do Is we engage pretty intensively with families and it begins with Developing that relationship and developing that trust to the point that families are comfortable Disclosing to us the sorts of stressors on their families and and what they're contending with Again, this brings me back to the reason that the kind that the hybrid approach is so critical If we're really to support children to be successful in school We can't ignore the context, you know of the the family setting that they are being raised in and again I don't think it's unique to children that we serve in head start because like I said I have a lot of collaborative programs where we are serving mixed aid mixed Income groups of children And in many cases you wouldn't know which kids are in my program versus my partner's program when you walked in the door Just by looking but there are a lot of dynamics that are going on behind the scenes Thank you I think one of the challenges with your dream of inspired leadership is one of our third Secretary of the HHS Three and a half years that I've been here our second head of the agency of education So I think you guys are built-in structural problems with With with that dream So I think it's just one of the challenges But I'm going to try to read between the lines here a little bit and I'm sensing a little more You have more confidence probably in one if we were to say we're putting everything under ahs You might not be walking in here with as many concerns. No, I don't think that's the case And so I wanted again. I wanted to respond to your question directly. I'm going to start with you. I have a dream speech So I do have a dream and I you know I'm the type of person that feels like you know You don't get an a plus unless you endeavor to get an a plus that so I don't want to set the expectations low That's that's just to respond to that piece And I really am not trying to favor one agency over the other because I have enormous respect for the work that both agencies do My perception which has evolved over decades of doing the work Is that really we need to bring the best of what these entities have to offer to this work? In other words, if you put it in one Versus the other you're missing an enormous piece in my in my estimation Of of what needs to be provided for children at this age So that's that really is the bulk of my that's the incentive for my advocacy not because I'd rather see it in one than the other. I like the hybrid approach. I think it takes work and you know, and I've Endeavored to to support collaborative partnerships for many years. Sometimes they're successful. Sometimes they're not It requires an immense amount of work and you can't give up, right? You can't just say well, you know, okay, you know, we can't especially when the outcomes for children and their families are on the line You know, I feel and I hear you, you know in terms of the changes in leadership that have occurred over the years But again, I still hold out hope in some states and I wouldn't necessarily recommend this for vermont But I have heard and I couldn't give you concrete examples Some states have actually pulled, you know from both of these kinds of Agencies and formed a new agency that that does contain the best, you know of this of these of these You know individual agencies, you know, I yeah, yeah, okay. I'm glad I'm glad you've heard that Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, so so again, I don't know if that's the right approach for vermont or or not But I do believe strongly in the hybrid approach because again, I don't think that one one systemic approach Is going to really optimize outcomes for children. I think you really need to bring both I just asked you a little bit about Funding and financing and the upk dollars. Yeah, how does that work? So the children come to your program free of charge for correct correct for the full Full child care period, which is typically what well it varies, you know, we're right now We're striving for as much as possible full school day. That's our target And so I would say head start in vermont and nationally is is continuing to move toward a full school day model You will not see all programs at that benchmark yet But I can tell you that a substantial portion of my programs are already at that benchmark So that that equates to Five days a week six hours a day for the most part school year In terms of the pre-k hours Do you do you take in you pk money? We do How does that work the way that works is it depends on Rather I I'd rather spend every I'd rather gather funding from every source I can possibly gather into leverage services for children and families Here's one one thing. I'm sure you are well aware of is the workforce crisis in our field There was a very acute workforce crisis in early care and education in vermont and nationally And I would say, you know, what I seek to do in my program is to leverage, you know And my funding is probably about 94% federal at this point So the state funding that we access is a miniscule part of my budget But I I layer those dollars on top so I can try to pay my teaching staff a livable wage And try to stay competitive in this market and keep people in this field Because there are a lot of people who choose to leave the field because the wages are not sufficient So if you can give me an idea what Working for me, uh, if you come if, uh, I'm not looking for a job. No, no, no, no I'd have to ask about your qualifications, but But at any rate, um for right now in my program if you're coming in with a bachelor's degree in early education You're looking at probably about $20 an hour if you're coming in with a vermont educator license You're coming in about $24 an hour To my program um a little bit higher than that at this point, but uh, but that's that's what we've been for about the last year And you all of your teachers are licensed Not all of my teachers are licensed. I mean all of you are the ones that yes, yeah that work in upk settings. Yes. Yes, correct Yeah, well, I should let me qualify that those who are the lead in other words I could employ you know as long as we have a lead teacher who is licensed Yeah, I want to make make sure I'm active So one of the things that we're looking at that that might be interesting to you is we're looking at This this is one of the probably the controversial steps that we're looking at in terms of equity in in The type of program and the qualifications We're we're now that we've been in the program for five years whatever it is six years five years We're looking at moving it to there needs to be a licensed teacher that's teaching Um, we have built in in this draft a three year Wamp up period Which would include that there needs to be supervision and coaching on the ground How would that work for you? For me personally, uh That's that's not an enormous burden for me in the administration of my program because we've been in We've been headed in that direction for a long long time We tried to stay ahead of the curve and this is partly a function of head start nationally at the federal level required higher qualifications Earlier, you know the advent of universal pre-k in vermont. So that was one piece of it. The other piece of it as I say is We saw a lot of this coming, uh, you know in terms of the advent of universal pre-k and the workforce Shortage so my my ramp up of staff wages occurred some year. This has been an ongoing process for some years And lastly, um, you know, I think that the uh, the Field is in a state of continued evolution Early care and education is not yet at full maturation And so these are these for me are some of the growing pains, you know The professionalization of the field the way I see it is going to require higher qualifications and higher compensation In order to really be fully professionalized the way we would like it to be I think we're viewing this, um iteration at this point with universal pre-k going out looking at an overhaul We're looking at just stabilizing what we have and leaving room for growth to see what's going to be growing organically kind of where we are at the moment Other What's your view on the on the future of federal funding for child care not just specifically Head start but in general. Oh, that's such a wonderful question. I wish I had the crystal ball on that It is so hard to say For sure Yeah, for sure and and priorities, you know what we you know, I think what we feel are you know I mean, I think for you know for those of us, you know in this room You know, I think education and you know child development and these kinds of issues are a high priority You know, I would hope that our legislators at the at the at the national level feel likewise Safe But November Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. Thank you. Yeah, much appreciated. Thank you for the amazing work that that started Oh, thank you. Thank you Thanks for the affirmation Thank you, thanks so much Uh, but I'll fill the role of uh representative joseph Whatever you would ask how How are you doing in terms of solving the transportation? Oh my god, that not not well. Yeah, not well. That's an enormous burden. I know it's an order. Oh my gosh That that is a huge conundrum and uh, you know and again This is one of the attributes of the system that you know I've I've worked and worked and worked on that issue and nobody wants the fund transportation for young children And it really is it's not and you know and it should be because it's it's critically important Thank you for asking