 Welcome to Breeder's Syndicate 2.0, where we explore the history of a clandestine scene. Researching everything from cannabis strain history, old smuggling tales from the first person perspective, to breeding science and news on current subculture. I'm your host, Matthew, and I'll occasionally be joined by my homey, not so dog, Breeder and Grower from Mendicino to speak on these subjects and sometimes interview other participants. Our goal is to document this history before it's written by corporations and others who just weren't there. Let's start writing some wrongs. Welcome to the Underground. Welcome to Breeder's Syndicate. I'm here with my buddy, Hian Lonesome, and Santa Cruz Goat Farm Pack and, of course, not so dog. We're going to talk about some of our upcoming 420 stuff we got going on for the site. And we're going to talk about some of their history and some of their likes, wants, needs, desires in cannabis. These guys have been at it a long time and have a lot to offer and a lot to say. So this has been a long chase for both of them, so it's kind of cool we get to get them both at once at the same time. And I think we're going to go over some of the party too, like what we saw at the party, what we liked, didn't, from what we saw at the party, etc. They both have handy avatars. They do. They do. Illusive creatures. Handy avatars. All right, so let's start off. Hian Lonesome, let's talk about some of your new lines that you have coming out. We have, of course, have your Appalachia, which is pretty well known for many reasons. Can you talk about it a little bit? Yeah, so that's an F3 I did. I went back and I had actually worked the line to F5 and I wasn't really happy with what I had selected. So I went back to the F2s. I popped 50 of them. I selected two males and three females and kind of let them go at it. I wanted more of the green crack side coming through on the Turks. You know, one thing you hear a lot about Appalachia is about like the creamy, milky stuff coming through in crosses. I'm more a fan of the tropical side of the green crack. Same. That creaminess kind of came through the trace dog mail that I used. All of those that I popped, they were very potent like the females, but they didn't have the rankness that you would expect with a Kim D. Yeah. How did that cross to the Appalachia? Like, did none of the rankness really crossed over in the out crosses? Did you see it in different generations? Any of it? Not a ton, no. It was more of like a sweet cream. You know, you see it in Star Dogs. I see it in a Kim 4 too. It's kind of like a little bit sweeter, not as nasty, not as like disgusting garbage as Kim D. But yeah, so that's kind of what I did. I wanted to go back to the F3, kind of narrow it down instead of keeping it wide open, narrow it down to what I wanted out of it and what I liked. What did you like about the green crack that made you want to choose that as a mom? Or was it just like one of the moms that you happen to have in the room when you were doing the run? What was specifically going on in your mind? Originally, when I did it, I was doing quite a bit of outdoor on the East Coast, probably middle 2000s. And green crack performed extremely well outside. It was, you know, except it needed some staking, which, you know, when you're a gorilla growing, you can't do, you can't grow it. You can't, you know, it's what pain in the ass. So I wanted to put it on a little bit more robust frame. I had had Kim D for a little bit at that point, and, you know, I was smoking it a lot, and that's what I wanted to smoke. Yeah. But the plants were also extremely robust. So I crossed it to green crack, purple oracle, Kim for Kim D, an Acapulco gold cut that I had at the time, and abusive. Oh, no shit. Yeah. Acapulco gold cross, dude. I never grew that one. I gave them all out to friends, and I never really heard anything back about that. The only two that have any kind of lasting value are the, of course, the green crack cross and the purple oracle cross. Yeah. And then you said there was a Kim for trade off too, right? Yes. Yeah. Yep. I did that as well. And, you know, what I found then it was very similar to start off. There was some really nice Kim type plants in there, and, you know, some stuff that wasn't, wasn't as ranked, you know, some of that creamy sweetness coming through. But still, you know, extremely good quality smoking plants. Do you think you got what you wanted out initially out of the trace dog? I kind of wish I had gone back through some F2s. I made a few F2s, but I never really pursued it. And, you know, at this point, the seeds are no longer viable, unfortunately. But it's cool line. There's, you know, I feel like if you F2ed it, you'd open up a lot of stuff. Yeah. I mean, trace dog and Kim for is kind of like your own version of star dog. Oh, yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, isn't trace dog isn't I mean, it'd be a different male or yeah, it'd be it'd be a different selection from the line. Yeah. Yeah. It was, I just made a kind of personal amount of them to go through. It's like a, I always like to keep like a day's bash of seeds. Yeah. You know, if I was all my friends and all my cuts and just like, you know, I'm, you know, just a nobody floating around out there. I can have something to go back to to look through even, even plants that I don't like. I usually will pollinate them before I drop them. Yeah. Cause you just never know, like something down the line might trigger that sense memory. You're like, I really wish I had that even though at the time it doesn't even seem viable or feasible. Yep. Yep. And just, you know, it's fun to waste all that space. Yeah. Right. And energy and time. One thing I thought about before, before we get too far away from it, it's just a point I might make, which is that it's really cool. If you're doing a multi-stage breeding thing to save seeds from every stage of it. Right. So that way, if you feel like you screw up, which is often you can go back and be like, oh, I'd want to redo it. I took it to F5 and I didn't really like some of the direction that it went. So then I went back all the way a few generations and started taking it a different direction. You know, I hear about that. Like people say they do that all the time. But there is very rarely any proof of anyone ever doing that. We're like, you've seen it. You've seen the seeds. They were out. There's been X amount of years between it. And you know that that's possible. And I actually have the F5s of Appalachia here from him. So I know he took it to F5 and went back and I think that's that's pretty commendable. You just don't see it very often. I also think like to like the era that that high and low some is talking about. It was, I think it was more common for people to like play around and work their own little lines a bit. It was way before there was like a bunch of like American seed sales or anything like that happening. So now it's kind of like you make seeds and it's a one off and they exist until they don't exist anymore. Yeah. But then I think it was a little bit more common, you know, at least amongst like weed nerds to like, you know, you make something and then it kind of becomes the base of what you're doing. And you cross it to this and you cross it to that. And you know, it and a lot of it like he was saying, it's all about like I'm breeding for personal smoke. Yeah. It gives you a lot more freedom than if you're breeding for the market, because you're just breeding for things that you like. No, it's all, you know, the whole even just growing it started by trying to make sure I had the best quality weed. Yeah. And I think that's the best way to breed. Yeah. I mean, I mean, it's it's it's you're not being true to yourself if you're not because how are you going to enjoy the smoke and like go through tons of different, you know, examples and not enjoy it and pick a keeper that you don't enjoy. That's really hard to do. Yeah. You want to be still on what you're doing. Right. Sure. Yeah. You can lose a lot of a lot of passion for something real fast by by cheapening it that way in my opinion. I mean, there's some people out there that like all their phenos and stuff that they get found get found by other people because those breeders don't crack them themselves. Oh, yeah. They make them name them package them sell them and then they find out through others whether or not anything good happened. Oh, yeah. And I would say that's kind of become the standard these days a little bit. But in the era that high and lonesome is talking about which is, you know, 15 plus years ago or whatever. I don't think that was the standard. You can get rid of anything back then. Oh, yeah. And before we stray too far, I do want to ask because I know this is going to be the number one question people want to know. When did you meet Bode and when did he acquire the Appalachia from you to work? So he and I had been, you know, chatting and exchanging seeds on. I think it might have originally been ICMAG but probably 06 ish. You know, he'd send me a few things he made. I'd send him a few things I made. And when I did the Trace Dog Crosses, I believe I sent all of them to him just for him to check out. And I didn't even know he'd popped any until he hit me up asking if it was OK if he released some seeds that he had made with the Appalachia. I think, you know, I'm not sure it was something that he meant to do, but that's just kind of how it worked out. And he made some really cool stuff. And I mean, people are still popping it. People are still passing out cuts from those seeds. It was definitely a very comprehensive job he did of crossing it to everything relevant at that time. I know it's a very common sentiment that a lot of people feel that some of their favorite stuff came from that, you know, like the Appalachia crosses. And one of my favorite moments ever in life was being able to watch you and Buddy meet in person for the first time. And then right away in the sunset. How sweet is that, dude, together? Yeah, he's a hell of a nice guy. Yeah. He's one of those people that, you know, you meet him in person and he's actually genuine. You know, it's a rare thing, but he's as nice as he comes off and just a hell of a cool guy. Yeah. You know, it's, you know, we were all holding hands, staring out the windows. You guys drove off. Too bad it wasn't into the sunset, you know. Right? It was just almost a little bit past sunrise. I think everybody has a nice glow going on though. Yeah. Yeah. I had a nice, uh, pregnant glow the next morning. Yeah. Yeah. So, Pat, let's talk about some of your stuff, dude. Yeah, man. You kind of popped out of the woodworks with some old cuts. You have an old Afghan cut that you work with. You work with a lot of train wreck stuff. One of your big releases, your first big drop was a train wreck reversal. And you hit a few things. Do you want to talk about some of that? Sure, man, you know, where do I begin? You know, I've always kind of had interest in genetics, you know, just growing over the years and what have you. But, um, initially when I got into the game, it was all clones for me, you know, and my crew. And so, you know, you'd come across the occasional seed pack or somebody, you know, like we shoot up to, uh, where is it up to BC and grab things once in a while. Um, not beasters, but, you know, whatever seeds I had hidden in the corners up there in gasoline area. Um, so, you know, as much as seeds were available and like not so as told in stories, you know, a lot of that was going on down, down south from where I was at that point, I was where I'm thinking is when I was living up in Humboldt, uh, up in the northern part of the county. Um, you know, seeds were prolific down there, right? There was a reason that generations of people, you know, breeding and whatnot, but clones are just so accessible back in the day that there wasn't really a need to go hunting and try to find whatever. Um, so it always kind of been on my radar, but it'd never been necessarily something I turned towards. And then, uh, you know, um, being in the game long enough, you come across certain cuts that you just fall in love with, even if they fall out of style and what have you. And, you know, um, I caught on pretty quick in the 2000s, you know, to the kind of turnover of things. You know, you'd see something just be prolific and it would disappear and you wouldn't see it again. And so I determined that I would have to, you know, hold on to some of these things and see where that goes. And so just, you know, years pass and all of a sudden you become this keeper of whatever the hell you thought was good from way back when. And, um, so that's kind of in terms of just what my, uh, you know, the way my path was laid out with the whole grant scene. So, so, you know, fast forward to now, um, you know, I've always been on the, on the DL for the most part with what I do. And I didn't really have a big intention of riding the wave into the legal market and try to go too heavy there. Um, right in the wave, right? I didn't feel like, yeah, it was not, did not have my board out. I wasn't going to go that way. Um, and, uh, and so I decided, well, you know, hey, man, this is part of my life, right? I'm not, you know, just move on. It's growing as my therapy. And so, um, but I also am kind of bored here and I don't feel like living by the algorithm of the garden. So to speak, like I had for so many years and I needed some kind of pivot, right? So, um, just like anything, you know, considered doing that for years, but played around, but then, uh, you know, um, come the time that I'm starting to get real bored and not wanting to move forward growing weight anymore. I thought, you know, this is that right time to have fun, right? And get into the genetics side of things. Yeah. And so what do I do? You know, I just kind of took what I had in my, uh, armory and started messing around. And here we are. How'd you find the crew in the first place? That's a good question. Um, this crew right here, this crew, I came across, I came across you guys, you know, unlike some of the, some of the other cats in this, in this field, like I stayed true to, to trying to stay under the radar. So I never got into the forums back in the day. And I mean, not so nosy, you know, you send people to go buy your supplies at the store and not have a license plate yet. Oh yeah. I'd do whatever. So I've just kind of always abided by that code and never got onto the forums. And then, um, I G comes around, I would say maybe 2017, 16, 17, 18, something like that. And started thinking about reversals. I'm like, Hey, man, I got this, this T-Dub cut. And, you know, I want to see, I want to open her up and see what happens. And, uh, so I started paying attention. And as a matter of fact, I got in touch with Brian over there at radio ridge. Oh, okay. And asked him, Hey, man, what's the deal? You know, who's, who's the go-to here? And, um, if you put your name on us, get a hold of Matt and here's my number. See what's up. Talk to him. And, uh, You must kind of like your ass. Jesus. He's like, fuck this guy. I'm listening to Matt. Um, Yeah, this dude's a kook. Here we go. Matt. So, so anyway, yeah, long story short, that's how I got in. And then, uh, you know, he vouched for me in terms of being, uh, somebody relatively solid in the field or whatever. You know what it, for me, what, what it was, which I appreciate by the way. Yeah. You had, you said you had blue dream, right? And for ever since I've lost that cut, I have had people telling me, I got, I got that cut. Don't worry. I got it. And not once has anyone ever been able to show me but of it. I've seen pictures of stuff that look just like it. But when I would get it, it would smell like fucking flow or something like that. You know, it just was off. It looked just like it. And then you brought it down. And I was like, holy shit. Not only does he have real blue dream. He has train wreck too. These are little time capsules. And not only that, it wasn't just that it was how well they were grown, how well they were cured. All of it. It was hit all the points. And I was like, God, this guy cares about his fucking weed a lot. You know, he cares about a good weed. And that's kind of where I realized like, this, this is legit. I want to see where this dude's, what this dude's story is. And without going into detail, too much detail. Obviously you come from like the surf background, right? Yeah, you could say that. I mean, central coast coastal life. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I'm not, I'm not a big, I'm not a big surfer. I was a skater or snowboarder kind of. But that was a part of your culture. Who you hung out. The kind of group. Why you would have had access to these certain clones in the first place. Yeah. It's definitely tied in. It's tied into the whole lifestyle. Just, you know, growing up in the 90s over here in the central coast. Like you were getting away from it. You couldn't find me. You found a surfer. But yeah, you know, I was selling the week to the surfers. And surfers usually had a pretty good choice of weed back then, like a lot of them would travel around the world, get some of the best weed on earth. So to have it having the kind of clientele you did without being specific. It, I learned, you know, that you had to perform better than others to have the kind of clientele you did at the time. Which I took notice of. And why, why I realized you, you had gotten so good at curing and drying and all that other stuff. Cause they were, they were pretty high in clientele. Well, and they're pretty picky, man. You know, I mean their, their dads were growers and they grew up in the whole scene and they're around the world. Yeah. So, exactly. You can't, you can't bring swag to those dudes and be like, yeah, I want a good price for this. That's just not going to happen. No. No, one thing maybe I should interject is like, since high and lonesome was talking about green crack. And now we're talking with pack about blue dream and train wreck is that there's some of these things that like, they became famous long enough ago and then kind of fell out of favor long enough ago that people probably mostly only hear legends about them to some degree. And a lot of people, like Matt was saying, get fakes or, you know, or get it poorly grown for whatever reason, feed versions where they use the name. One of the things that sucks about that is that often people talk about why they got burned out on a certain cut, not why that cut had lasting fans to begin with. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and I think with both with the three things I just named with, you know, green crack or with, you know, train wreck or blue dream, all three of those, you know, there's a reason there's, there's a bunch of reasons why they got popular and people really enjoyed them. Yeah. And then they, you know, they ended up getting burned out, you know, because people were growing huge amounts of it. And once huge amounts of it start growing, a lot of people start doing it poorly. Yeah. You know, and then all of a sudden it gets a bad reputation and then something moves on and people lose track of the quality. And like you were saying, like maybe only a few people end up holding onto it. And then people are surprised at how good this thing they've heard of, but maybe in derogatory terms. Oh yeah. You know, and I don't mean, you know, I just, like there was a lot like when, when high and lonesome was talking, I was thinking about how, you know, like basically once people in like grass valley and certain other regions got green crack and started growing seven to 10 pound outdoor plants, that kind of like midsy green crack is what blue got turned people away from it. It became accessible. But, you know, green crack is, you know, in extracts and something like that, it actually has a bunch of really nice Terps. It has a bunch of really nice structure to it. It has a very like cool flavor done well, you know? Yeah. Indoor 70 day green crack is tough to beat. Yeah. It's really good. Like, I'm looking so forward to it. Right. And he just said, the other thing that happens to people is they grow it too big and then they end up taking it 10 or 12 days early, because it's, it's done enough to pass. Oh yeah. Makes all the difference too. So then the market gets flooded with a bunch of, you know, I mean, it definitely happened with green crack. It definitely both happened with blue dream and train wreck. All three sort of suffered the same fate in that they could be enough of a production plant. That they got overproduced and people thought the production version was the version. When in reality, I think blue dream took a bigger hit. I think blue dream took a much bigger hit than just that. Um, green crack didn't because I knew who was, who was releasing seeds of it and who wasn't. And there weren't a lot of seeds released to green crack. There weren't like green crack seeds out there. You could buy up in mass, you know, but blue dream, the second that thing kicked off, we had emerald triangle seeds, which was, I believe, made in Spain. Um, there was a, you had Humboldt seeds. You had all these different companies releasing their versions of what blue dream was, which was whatever spulk Spanish company was pushing out as their blueberry haze. And that's what cuts got passed around is blue dream. I'm 99%. I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I'm convinced H&L that like in the, in the DAV era, uh, green crack has been named renamed papaya. Oh yeah. A lot of, a lot of those like tropical turps and stuff like that. Like they would never call it a green crack extract. No. Right. But they have some green crack rosin and they'd be like, ooh, this is the papaya. Yeah. Like rosin of papaya. This is the papaya, you know, some tropical fruity. And not to say that not so has any knowledge that the papaya strain out there from the specific company is green crack. He's saying that's a, probably what happens. Oh, well, you know, even 15 years ago, when people didn't want to buy green crack around here, it went as mango. It went as papaya. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It just, you know, that happens. Yeah. There's half a dozen names for blue dream. Oh yeah. They got made, and maybe even more that got made because people got blown out on it and they're like, oh, this isn't that. This is blue dragon. Yeah. This is, you know, that reminds me of your Barry White story. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's true. And, but, you know, the point that I'll scroll back on is that if you take somebody who knows the strain, like say pack or high and lonesome, and they grow a nice two, three, four, six ounce plant either in a greenhouse or in an indoor environment, people are going to be blown away by how good it is. Oh yeah. People have blew the party away. I think people have forgotten. Why those things got so popular in the first place, and they only think they got popular because you could get an eight pound outdoor plant that was bigger. Yeah. Yeah. And that's not what got them popular in the beginning at all. It's just not. Yeah. It was a grow in somebody's closet. Yeah. I mean, a three ounce, a three ounce green crack plant is delicious. Yeah. Absolutely. It really is, you know. I think a four ounce blue dream is a damn delicious, especially how long did you take it back this last time? For the party, I pulled it early actually. Yeah. I know. It's weird. I think I pulled it at 60, 60, 61 days maybe. And it was super berry for me. Yeah. It was nice. That was the best I've ever had for sure. Yeah. Yeah. That was killer. It happens when you grow a cut for, you know, 15 bucks. Yeah. You better, you better put out some work or some good work after 20 years. I mean, really what one of the things, you know, I remember talking to CSI about this probably, I don't know, eight years ago or something where in his mind, going back to what Pac was saying about where he was up in Humboldt and stuff. Trainwreck was one of the first named clones. Yeah. Yeah. That really spread around the growing community deeply in that zone. Like there was lots of seeds and there was lots of name stuff that got like here and there. It popped up. But like trainwreck really kind of had its moment. Hey man, that was the first strain that you started seeing people wear t-shirts with the name trainwreck across the front. Oh, really? I've never seen the shirts. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Humboldt clothing company, I think it was up in, up in Arcada 2001, something like that. They, they got smart and started marketing the strains on shirts. Yeah. There weren't many, but trainwreck was the one that was like, you know, what you saw. Perfect. But we never referred to release the micro being up in Arcada. It was never the Arcada trainwreck until years later. Yeah. As a, as a signifier, you know, in terms of where it came from, it was just T-Dub or trainwreck. Yeah. Yeah. I think that popped up on the forums as a designator, you know, once there used to be a few fake cuts and, you know, people would talk a lot about the, you know, this is the Arcada cut or this is the E32. Yeah. E32 crew or whatever. That's, the 11wreck was another one that was floating around at that point. Yeah. Yeah. It seemed to pop up once people started releasing seeds. I think the, somebody started, started messing with it. Wood horse. Was it? It was tuck in wood horse. Yeah. Tuck in wood horse, the big train. I remember using name dropping him again, but I remember when, even though they're discredited when Phylos first came out or something, CSI called me up and he goes, do you want to know what, what DNAs, lemon skunk test as, and I was all, what, and he's all green crack. Oh yeah. Unfortunately. Yeah. I mean, like it kind of makes sense. Like if they're both skunk one, they would kind of, like maybe show up in some range together. Oh yeah. But I just think like there's, you know, and train wreck also the other thing train wreck got known for was that it was the, like long before anyone used the word terpenaline, you know, train wrecked herps. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It got, it got kind of a moniker of like, oh, people didn't know what that terp was, but train wreck was famous and well-known. I'm like, oh, this kind of smells like train wreck to me. Yeah. It's got a train wreck, it's got a train wreck. It's got a train wreck. It's got a train wreck. It's got a train wreck. It's got a train wreck. It's got a train wreck. Right. But you know, but those, it's, so it's kind of like it's, it's almost a bad thing. No, I don't want to say it's almost a bad thing, but any strain that has the potential to be blown out huge has the potential to get a bad reputation because people only try it blown out, huge, not dried, right, not cured, right. Like Matt was saying about Pax ability to dry it and cure it and treat it nicely. And so sometimes even getting a good example of what made something famous can be harder. Yeah. Sure. And I'll tell you what, man, you know, there's, there's times where I put it out and I won't smoke that shit. Cause I'm like, no, that's not, no, I don't want to share that with somebody. Yeah, for sure. It's not. Oh yeah. We all have this. That's Ron. I mean, our buddy, our, you know, we had some friends of ours, the gathering that we had or whatever that are quite a bit younger than us. And it was really cool to have them try some of the classics. Yeah. That had faded from popularity like long before they came onto the scene. Yeah. Yeah. That was really neat for me actually, you know, it was, that's where I noticed like the kids loving blue dream. You're like, this is blue dream. What? This is what it's like. What were people talking about? Just watch me, you know, push trainer, come for local man. How'd that go? I didn't see that part. Yeah. He was kind of not. Yeah. He was kind of not. It's 10 o'clock, man. I'm way older than you. You need to go. You need to go take a train wreck bomb hit. So he went in. This is, this is, this is right before I put a sharpie in his, in his pocket to wake attention. I was, I was, I was listening to an interview that packet did not very long ago last week or something. Yeah. And I remember you talking about like train wreck was the weed that like you pulled some bong rips right before you had to do a bunch of work. Oh, it was get after it. We, you know, it gave you that buzz where you felt like you could get some shit done. Absolutely. And particularly so much so if you, if you pulled a little bit early, you know, like you can train, it's not such a range of when you can pull it and what you want to get off of it. It does. You pulled a little bit early. It's just so much more speedy, you know. Yeah. I feel like that's part of, part of what gave it its reputation of, you know, big blown out plants pulled it, you know, 50 days because it, it looks good enough at 50 days. It's seven weeks. You can yank it. Yeah. That's why green crack was big with us because like you found it out. It's all about getting seven of them in, in a year. If you're doing indoor, you know, that's the, and that's another key why people end up getting feel like something's not that great. I can't even tell you how much sour diesel in Mendocino County was pulled as soon as it was good enough to go. Yeah. Oh yeah. Like it probably should have gone into the mid 70s and it hits 60 and they're like, it's ready. Hey man, you're not doing it for the love at that point though. You know, I get it. But you know, but it's like people just don't, I don't think people see like that's the part about love that I don't think people get where it's like, you know, if you, it's hard to come across people that know how to grow it the right way that will take it the right amount of time that'll dry it and cure it the right way. So you get that full effect. There's a lot of, it's good enough to go. Yeah. And it's good enough for the buyer won't reject it. Hey man, I'll tell you what, I can't say I'm not guilty of that in my past, you know, especially at certain points in time where it was more economically feasible than, you know, just for the love. But I think when you stay in it long enough, at least for me, it's like you kind of mature into your grower status, right? Like start off reading high times. I want to grow everything. We got to get it all, whatever. But then you start to kind of not only dial in the plant, you dial in your style. Yeah. And you dial in your life. You mature. It was a different world to, you know, consumers, there wasn't, you know, as many connoisseurs, people just, they wanted a bag of weed. And, you know, they wanted it to be pretty and taste good. And, you know, if you could accomplish that and then get a buzz, it was all good. To be fair, like if I was doing something outside, like any of the things we just mentioned, and it was fall, I could probably let it go if I got good weather until it was perfect. Right? Yeah. But if I'm depping it, and it's 90 to 100 degrees every day in Mendo, I'm going to hit a point where it's all downhill from here. And I might not get that last five to seven days that I would prefer out of it, because it's going to go south because it's 98 and it's hot and the flowers, the calyxes are going to start to yellow. It's going to start to get beat up. I'm going to pay my rent, you know? Yeah. Yeah. You know, here we had, we had hurricanes every fall, you know, or most every fall. And so, you know, in October, you might get, you know, six inches of rain in a week. You know, it just, it can be terrible. And so sometimes it, it was good enough to go. October one, you know, it's done. I try to explain that to people all the time when it comes to like nature farming, you know, where you're using, using the sun or whatever, that all downhill from here is an important decision to come to. Yeah, it is. It really is key because you can, you can be like, oh, I can make it better. And then you're like, I just made it worse. I mean, one of the reasons why it stuck to indoor growing, because, you know, you get to play God in terms of how long something's going to go. And, I mean, obviously, you know, there's, there's good and bad with both. But it's, it's an interesting distinction because as an indoor grower, mainly, you know, that wasn't a consideration, right? What time of the year it was, unless, you know, I didn't have the right kind of insulation in the place of growing or whatnot. Sure. Yeah. Here we used, I mean, you know, indoor, you know, not that a lot of people wouldn't go outside or whatever, but the problem up here was that it got so hot and dry. We always used to call it summer bud. Yeah. Same, same here. Like you knew that you knew the indoor summer, but even just because it was like, you cannot keep your shit under a hundred. Just because it's like, people are running many splits back in the day. You know, many splits didn't, we didn't, you know, I kind of, technology is all the stuff that's common now. I don't think people realized how slowly we had some of us adopted it. Remember how hot the lights were? Oh yeah. We didn't use glass, man. Yeah. When you didn't use the shields, did they be hanging and you'd walk by them and smell your skin burning up? Matt, you know how many burns out of my elbows from running like, I went in like a octagons where I had three exposed bulbs hanging in the metal and you had to get in there to do whatever. That was always so brutal. Dude, like, you know, I always heard these wives tales of that guy. Seeing my skin hanging up a bulb and sizzling and it being just fine. And it was cooking this thing just fine. It didn't explode. But I always heard like, yeah, don't get your finger oils on that bulb. It'll blow up. So I was always, I don't know. People like finger oils. Like, so I'd always like screw them in all careful. Like, Oh yeah. Yeah. And screw it in because I didn't want to. Yeah. Yeah. You polish them before you turn them on all that. Oh yeah. Yeah. I don't need them exploding. I don't know. Maybe it was true. There was a couple of times in life where like they hit the top of my ear. Woo. That was pretty sensitive spot. Yeah. I'm a tall, I'm a tall guy, you know, and so you're, you're moving around. You're trying to, I had that issue too. Yeah. You know, yeah. But one of the things that we should mention too is that, you know, and I don't know high and low and some if you want to talk about this, but I would imagine that when you were crossing a trace dog to, you know, to green crack, maybe you could talk for a minute about like something that I'm always interested in, which is like what you were hoping each parent was going to bring to the children. Yeah. Well, you know, basically the only issues I had with screen crack were the structure of the plant and then the structure and the high of the plant. So I wanted to get something with a little bit more robust structure and something that, you know, had a little more not depth to the high because I think that the character, the character of green crack is really nice, just something that maybe hits you a little bit harder behind the eyes. Yeah. It's still a skunk one high at the end of the day. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Yeah. I mean, green crack in my opinion is just skunk one. Yeah. Probably my favorite. Yeah. A really good one. It's definitely my favorite of the skunk one type plants. I have big margin. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you know, cheese is great. I have run that several times over the years. I just, I can't smoke it, but so much, but something about the like rotten mango green crack is just so appealing. And another one of your, you're really well known cuts. And this is probably what I knew you best for. And one of the cuts I chased the longest was the poodle nuts cut. Can you talk a little bit about that? Who selected the cut, where it came from, et cetera. Yes. So it was selected by a friend of mine from IC. He went by 40 grit. And then I think after that 40 ounce, several, several names over the years, but he was blowing up warehouses of Urkel before anybody else. He always had the most dialed in Urkel, his shit. You know, I remember smoking his weed and it just being, it was like slingshot and it was dense, but it wasn't blown out. It was like perfect. And his problem was he was running warehouses of Urkel. He needed something with some hybrid vigor. And he and I used to bullshit a bunch. So, you know, that was one that when I was making those crosses, I kind of pollinated the Urkel just to see if it was any more vigorous. So I, you know, once the seeds were done, I sent a bunch out to him and he, he ran them. He found, I think two cuts that he really liked, but that one was the one that looked more Urkley and it, you know, it got purple, but it had increased vigor and increased potency. So he started, you know, running warehouses of that and crushing it. Loved it. Yeah. Nice. And, yeah. And his, I mean, his selection is beautiful. I've grown it. I've crossed it to some stuff. That line ended up being, you know, as you went through generations of it, there was just more weird stuff popping up in the Urkel. Urkel, man. Yeah. Yeah. I took it, I think to F4 and it was just, you know, you'd get more mutants and it would just, it didn't have the vigor. I don't know. I could have fucked it up, but you know, it just is one of those things that I couldn't go, but so deep into. Yeah. I can understand that. The actual pool nuts cut is super unique looking. Like I've seen it express this really unique trait where it looks super knobby. It's very hard to describe. And I've seen pictures of some of the outcrosses that have that same trait. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. Like bud structure? Yeah. Yeah. The knobby bud structure. Yeah. Yeah. That's, yeah, that kind of surprised me. It's not quite the, you know, round balls you get with earful, but it's, it's great weed. Dude. Yeah. It's beautiful. It smells. And I've told people this a million times, like people always talk about smelling cuts, smelling really rank and veg. And that's a perfect example of one for me where I can take cuts of that in the living room and in the bedroom, Brinby like the skunk spray in here, because it really does smell like skunk spray. What do you call it? Yeah. Yeah. And then it finishes up so sweet and nice. Yeah. I know. It's just, it's very orcally of it. Cause like Urkel does something similar. It has that similar skunky smell and veg. And you take cuts and it's like, wow, this is going to be skunky AF. And then when you, when you flowered it's super grippy in the end, you know, almost gets there. And for people that are younger or don't know or weren't around during the Urkel era, one of the big issues with Urkel was that it's not a very branchy mom. It's not easy to get a lot of cuts off it. And a lot of people would veg it for a long time before they bloomed it. Because it's kind of a slow grower. You know, it's not. The node spacing is insane. That's my problem. Urkel is one of those ones that you kind of have to get it around the size you want it to be when you bloom it. And then it's going to grow like six or eight inches and stop. It's not like a diesel or something that has a, but like it's going to double or triple in size and branch out. It's just not going to. So when I and Lonesome was talking about like his buddy wanting something with a little bit better bigger, Urkel took its time. It kind of parted along. You know, it was that for me it was the node spacing. It just, it was, it was just constant, just like node spacing 10 meters. Yeah. You had to bend it out and just constantly stay on it. It took forever to veg. It used to be, you know, you could grow a haze and the same time you could grow Urkel because you're going to have to veg. Veg it out. Three times as long, four times as long. And then when you flower it, you know, it's going to pretty much stayed that size. Like not to say six, eight inches and that's all. Yeah. No jumping. No jumping. Most of my friends up here that were successful growing Urkel, they would be blooming a round of Urkel and they would be vegging almost the entire bloom. Oh yeah. So their next round to get the Urkel of like the root ball and just the plant to be a sufficient size that they could then throw it into the bloom when the other round was done and get going. Come to think of it, Urkel, another cut that got bastardized by like being passed all around and a lot of graphic growth of it. Because like, you know, you always hear about how like lame and unpotent Urkel is, but like I've had my head ripped off by good Urkel. Like really legit put in my ass by good Urkel. It's just rare. Yeah. It all comes down to the grower and you know the conditions. If you grow a giant outdoor Urkel, it's just not going to be that quality. No. I like Urkel quite a bit, but I have to admit it doesn't hit me the way it hits some people. Now, I will say Mr. Hill says you do not like purples at all. In fact, you agree it's all chickweed. Ask not to. Chickweed. I mean it's good to have strong opinions I suppose. You know. I said Mr. Mendo. Purps. But you know Urkel is Urkel for me like I have this weird relationship with with Urkel and that whole round of purples because at least in California, I don't know it you know where high and lonesome is, but at least in California, it completely changed the weed game. Yeah. And what I mean by that is before like Urkel and Mendo P and Granddaddy Purple and that like purple craze of like 040506 that kind of hit. Yeah. Any good weed you grew generally speaking salt. Yeah. Yep. And I feel like the Urkel and the Purple Wave was the very beginning of like brokers being like, do you have this I'll take as much of it as you've got. And if you don't, I don't give a shit. I don't want whatever it is. I didn't want to grow Urkel. I liked it, but I didn't want to grow it, but that's what they were asking for. Yeah. And there was a bunch of people that were like, Hey man, I'm having a hard time moving my stuff. And you're like, well, if I give you this cut, they'll take every bit of it. Yeah. And that kind of started the movement of like brokers want this, so I'm going to grow this where I think, I think everybody probably on this call would agree. Like before 2004, if you grew fire weed, it was just going to go. Yeah. It was, it was going to go. It was going to have a home. And then like the name game with really started with purple craze and with Urkel, and then it went to diesels and it went to cushions. And a lot of those old strings, like we were just talking train wreck, green crack, you know, blue dream, you know, all these different things started getting lost to the wayside because they weren't as easy to move as whatever was dominant in the scene at the moment. Yep. And we're still playing that game. Yeah. And that's what I'm making them rare. You know, it's crazy that it's awesome that pack love train wreck and blue dream enough to hold on to the real ones. Yeah, it is. You know, thankful for it. And most of my collection is just stuff that I personally liked. So I held on to it, you know, or, you know, in high and lonesome case, it's like that's really what preservation needs is like different groups being like these cuts, I really enjoy. Yeah. And so I'm going to hold on to them and I'm going to grow them nice regardless of what the market is telling me because I care about them. I mean, that's the dividing line between chasing the dollar and doing it for the love of what you're doing, right? You, when you, when you, when you hold on to a cut long enough, it becomes a partner of yours, right? Like I always say trainwrecks, the longest relationship I've ever had with the girl. Oh yeah. I said the same thing about the Maui because I popped it when I was 18. Yeah. You know what I mean? You grow up with these things, right? And they become this intimate part of your life regardless of the people accepted or not. If it's, if it's in your zone and it's what you want, then it really doesn't matter if it comes or goes, right? I mean, there, there was years where trainwreck was just one plant in the corner. Yeah. Give me your own. That's really monocropping it for, you know, 25 years I've had it or however long it's been, but you know, she's, she's always, always kept that special place in my heart. And I've been around long enough. I'm not the oldest guy in the world, but I've been around long enough to know that if you wait long enough shit comes back around. And you, and you learn by watching others never hand your shit over to a tissue culture guy. Well, do that. The other, the other thing I think is interesting about what we're talking about is that all these elites that we're talking about from back then came about in a time when elites only got popular if enough people like to smoke them. Yeah. Like this was an era where there was no modern weed marketing. There was no hype machine yet. Like things got hyped because people enjoyed growing them. Yeah. And a lot of people had to enjoy growing them for them to become popular. And not everyone had to like it, but enough of the community had to like it for it to be desirable. Otherwise it just kind of would fall by the wayside. You know, I had my clockwork orange cut in San Diego and down there it sold really well. It sold really well. But I was really stingy with it and I did not like passing it out. And those who had it, I made sure they didn't pass it out. Because it didn't get a lot of exposure, you cannot, back then you couldn't convince people that a strain was good unless they got to smoke it. It just, it was very hard to do and you couldn't force that artificial hype. It was very, very hard to have artificial hype during those days. And even stuff that was genuinely good. If it didn't make it around, it just didn't, that's what happened. You know? If it was listed as a $50 eighth in the back page of high times over Missouri, then it got some airtime, right? Yeah. That's how funny about airtime is that. On the internet, probably, and like in the forums during like high and lonesomes, like heyday on the forums, I think like the dog, what people call the Chem91 now, was probably more popular than it was in California. Because my friend that passed it out to the three or four people that got it, he wouldn't let us give it out anywhere. And so for the most part, brokers were like, well how good can it be if I don't have it? Yeah. Yeah, I think the forums is where the hype machine kind of got going. Absolutely. You know, you'd have somebody post, you know, an OG Kush thread showing some pictures, talking about their cut. You know, talking about what it goes for in California and it would just look killer and, you know, people would go apeshit over it. And that's kind of where it all started. Then, you know, people start arguing over strength and, you know, it's gotten us to where we are today. I mean the lupus headband. I remember that being one like that. Names starting to get attached. Cut. Yeah, well, you know, people started getting their names attached to cuts that they didn't create and they didn't pop. They just, you know, they were the one on the forum to let it out to people. So it was now. Yeah, so now it's, it's their cut as their name attached to it. And that, you know, that still goes on today, you know, like. Oh, yeah. I mean, you better kick, you better kick up royalties to some of these mofuckers too. Well, I think I do think there's, I do think there's a difference between like your name gets attached to something because people are trying to differentiate which one it is and they're saying comes from this person. Yeah, there was certainly some people early on, like Lumpa or, you know, Ken from Ken's GDP or something like that where they intentionally attached their name for control. Yeah, sure. You know, and some people didn't attach their name for control. It's just like other, it's almost like other, your friends give you a nickname. It's like people on the forum started referring to things as a certain cut. Yeah. And it's sort of just organically happened where other people were like, no, I'm going to attach my name to it. Yeah, or I need credit or I need money or I need seeds or all the little dynamics that developed around possession. And what's funny is, there's something that intentionally attached their name to a cut that was actually the originator of the cut made the seeds or popped it. Let me think about that. Ah. What about Strawberry Cough? Oh, that's a tough one because I don't know, did he pop the seed? No, he got it given to him. Yeah, you know, nothing against homie or anything like that, but like obviously like the young guy got Skunk VA's name attached to it because he was the first person talking on the forums. The three people I remember that intentionally attached their name was like A.J. attached his name to Sauer, Ken attached his name to GDP and Loompa attached his name to Headband. All very choice people, yes. You can all hate me for it or whatever, but I think those three at least like they intentionally added their own name. A.J. was just the latest of the game on that one. I never I never heard of that cut. I took a little break from being online and you know any of the forum stuff and I got back on about when I got on the IG and started hearing about A.J. Sauer and it's like man I've never heard of this one you know and it just there's so many things that are like that that you know I never heard of that cut I never heard of this Sauer cut How about the Chaco? You're welcome to that. Let me just let me just point out it used to not be a popular thing to put yourself out there in this game. One time. I try to I try to make that point all the time where it's like the skill sets that kept us safe for a long time which is kind of being invisible and keeping your head down. You know a lot of us were indoctrinated into that lifestyle for 10, 15, 20 years and then all of a sudden in like 2012 or 2015 people start putting their faces onto things. And that had never really happened before and it went against a lot of the and then people started associating you know like you know burner with cookie or something like that where it was like the person that was the most vocal ends up being the expert or the person that's like the most in charge of whatever the strain is. Must be an official subject. I mean what's funny about that too is that I've had a bunch of talks with CSI Urkel I would say probably Blue Dream and Trainwreck they all kind of have very mysterious origins. There's a lot of cuts out there that like there's a general consensus on most events that led to a cuts creation and the people involved to me I've never I mean I've heard people claim it but I've never any of those three strains they popped up and who the hell made them and where the hell did they come from and still a mystery to me. And let me point out that some of that might just be a design. There's a bunch of old boys that still grow that I've known over my lifetime they won't touch the internet and they could care less about anything to do with anything but doing what they keep on keeping on growing the way they have. Yeah. And scammers love that because it doesn't give them competition to the origin story. It's true. Like all of a sudden you can be like Urkel came from my farm this year. I did this and there's not going to be anyone to compete it. A monk showed up on my property and just happened to bless us with this. With this cut or whatever. That was almost like the Kinesda's GDP and at some point I got to cut in because people are going to want to hear the Kinesda's story H&L. They're going to want to hear it. I got a couple of questions myself. Exactly. It's the perfect time to bring it in. So the Kinesda's story what's the point of you how did it go down you remember? Well I mean you're the one that tipped me off to it so I was the signal bin. You were. I was kind of I was kind of in the process of stepping away from the forums stuff and all that but I still checked in every once in a while and you know mostly communicated with you know some of my old friends on there. But one day you sent me a message kind of letting me know that one of Bodie's female apalachic cuts that he kept had been entered into what was it the cannabis cup. It was like a major cup like the high times there's just barely doing cups. Yes in the U.S. yeah I think it was like the San Francisco whatever cannabis cup. And evidently a cut had been taken from Bodie's mom room by I guess a helper and somehow Ken got it and liked it enough that he renamed it day 11 and entered it into the cup. So he won the cup with that cut of apalachia and to follow up on the success created a seed line not even using the cut to the best of my knowledge. From what I think if I'm not mistaken I think it was he had an Uji Kush seed line and he crossed that to green crack and figured it would be close enough and that was that was what came out as day 11 and I remember it being a big deal people this isn't what that was. It was practically different. Yeah so you know you kind of tip me off to that story on ICMAG and I remember you know engaging in some conversations about it I was shocked that they had edited it. Yeah like you know normally I was kind of like yeah like normally that stuff stays wrapped up. Yeah you know so that was it would have been cool to have won a cup with the name. Yeah right? It was still when cups mattered like at that time it wasn't like fully bastardized where there were thousands of cups hundreds of cups a year it was when cups winning a cup could mean the difference between a thriving business or not. And it really pushed Ken's business I mean most people already knew who Ken was from GDP because he had marketed himself with that but the cup win boosted the sales to that Bay Eleven and his whole company and seed launch massively. That was why I was like this is fucking gross. Even the GDP thing with Ken is pretty suspect. Oh yeah it is it's completely suspect. I mean I you know I don't tell this story very much and I'll have to be kind of like I'll have to circumvent around certain parts of it I suppose and the person that I'm going to talk about is like a total anarchist outlaw like we were just mentioning who would never want their name to be known but that person is who Ken got the GDP from up in my neck of the woods and it actually came from a retiring Vietnam vet who lived up in the hills by me in the Laytonville area and was pretty and female which was pretty rare in cannabis still is but especially as Pac will know especially in the Humboldt or Mendo Hills he's been rare for a person to like own their own properties and be doing their own things or whatever else it was pretty rare back then so she was kind of gung ho about it and he was kind of sweet on her a little bit and so he ended up giving her like I don't know 50 or 80 seeds of his own hybrids that he had made and she found GDP in the first batch that she found and the only reason I figured that out really was because I helped her build like a 60 lighter in the woods and so I knew her before she knew Ken and she gave it to Ken because they were partners together on this thing right and she wanted to stay totally anonymous and people don't realize this but this is sort of like the era where like the first real dispensaries were opening up in the bay places like you probably remember Pac like the third floor you know and stuff what was the other one, the vapor room the vapor room, the third floor there was a few of them not very many back then the power exchange I believe was one you would always talk about that was the one that Matt that you were a little bit more familiar with be that as it may Ken was willing she wanted to stay up in the hills and stay anonymous right and he was willing to go to the bay and market it and so it kind of became Ken's GDP and there was no she was fine with it because the last thing on earth she wanted to do was attach her name or show her face she had outdoors, she had depth she was under the radar she had you know 60 lighter was a big deal back then it was a diesel thing in the woods she wanted to stay completely hidden and so Ken's GDP and that's kind of why Ken's story changes because he heard it second hand yeah that story and if people want to hear the full story from the the werewolf's mouth it is there you can go on google and if you look up Ken's GDP story I forgot what the name of the thing is but it's some like rapper guy interviewing Ken about it and he tells this real mumbly story and you can still find the transcript that I wrote online if you look for it and I actually transcribed it because it's a little screwy until you transcribe and actually see what he's saying but he says that Native American like shamans thought he was a really great white dude and helped them and decided yeah yeah right and decided that they were going to gift him this magical purple Vietnamese skunk plant where this came from so what's interesting about that is that the story goes is that the guy that gave my friend the seeds was a Vietnam vet and had brought back some seeds from his adventures over there when he was in the army right and it's basically like as you know it basically became hillweed right where he took the sativa and he started crossing into some of the Indicas that started coming in into the Mendo Humboldt area and trying to get a plant that would finish and then it sort of became that thing where it's like it was like on that hill and in that neighborhood or whatever it was like they were running this thing and people had different versions you know and it was unnamed and you know and when she popped them or whatever there was still a variety of like sativa to indica leaning ones and they always picked for the outdoor they always picked a little bit more of the sativa leaners because they needed the stretch and they didn't want as much of the moldy density probably too but a little 2-3 foot chunky plant for a woods indoor situation was perfect especially in the early 2000s and the way that people grew back then a whole carpet of plants that were only 2.5-3 feet tall and chunked out was a great look perfect and but yeah he he got that exact cut from her and nobody even knows who she is that's crazy I was just going to say a vietnam vet jump from a vietnam vet to a native american shaman that's not the biggest leap huh yeah I mean you know addition here and addition there well I mean a funny pack is like with you living up in Humboldt obviously it's not like native's up there have like a super high opinion of like random white dudes like ken you know he's a very special he's a magic white man we're invaders he's a magic white man especially in Humboldt and stuff you know Humboldt, Kobolo different places in Mendo like there's a lot of resentment yeah white people did not treat the natives that were living in the valleys very well but yeah he basically he had to make up a story and whenever you make up a story sometimes the details change okay so yes or no not so I'll ask you since you're from the area Ken Estes yes or no Mark Emery, Minnie no only because you know he just he basically like there was it was more than just Ken you're welcome oh man but he just you know he just took it down to the third floor and it was like he was one of those guys that was willing to there was not that many people from Mendo and Humboldt that were willing to go into those dispensaries and funnel lead into them people wanted to be anonymous and he was willing to be not anonymous and as a result of that he got his name attached yeah there's also a really good song on youtube called Leave Ken Alone oh man really it is so good I forgot who the rapper is in it but it's all about Ken getting popped and leave him alone and it's so good I highly recommend it I do in maybe Ken's defense just a little bit because I think this you could apply this to almost anyone that gets famous around lead is they get famous and they get known for a particular story and then it's like it becomes more of maintaining their image than being honest sure yeah I think that temptation is a really big temptation and we could talk about lots of different people in the industry where you know there's like not very well known details that are true but they have a narrative and they have a public persona and their interest is maintaining that public persona that's a lot more famous yeah I mean I I saw this in the UFO world a lot too where people would be like famous for let's say they claim to have an abduction or a UFO sighting and they'd get a lot of acclaim for this and maybe they did see something they found to be anomalous maybe they were being totally true or honest at the time but after that attention goes away and all the adoration and admiration from people and the you're so cool this is you and the recognition they slowly get this want need to get those endorphins or whatever it is again the admiration flowing so they'll make it up they'll force it they'll force that whatever it is and take that reputation shot and I see that in weed it transfers over so well I mean some people catch lightning in a bottle once and they spend the rest of their life like trying to just chasing that dragon force that hype and it just that's a thirsty ego is what that is or people make entire seed companies just based around the one or two things that they're famous for and only do variations around those things because that's what they're known for yeah it's super common I mean you know you were talking I don't know if it was Matt or you but like you were talking about the train wreck name I mean I heard you know wasn't there rumors that like the E32 was because it was like the 32nd generation yeah 32nd attempt to re-pro the original yeah something wild wasn't that a crew the E32 crew I'm not sure if it was a crew but I remember that you know that term coming out on the forums and it was like no you don't have train wreck if you have the arcade cut the E32 cut is the one I remember Callio Callio is a part of the E32 it was like an early DHK type thing I don't know I know one person who'd know I kind of bug him about that mask but yeah I was trying to remember because I know it was that Berkeley patient group that Eric worked out of it was it was his name on the forums like AE RIC no it was the arcade whatever the dispensary was it opened up I think that's right it wasn't Berkeley it was different there was a club like one of the first clubs it opened up and arcade it was off 11 stream apparently it was that dude Eric yeah and so there was a Callio story from him and then there was the train wreck and it does predate him but the cut that goes around is from him I remember correctly and I'm sure someone will correct me if I get that wrong the E32 the cut that goes around that everybody has came by him and was passed out by that collective not the 100% original and nobody has I mean Krababy knows pretty extensively he's done his research there I think you're right sounds pretty decent he knows that story about the E32 I haven't put it up against the one that I've held on to but I don't know do you guys I think it's that cut I think it's the same cut I've never seen it I've just seen the forum hype about it yeah I'm pretty sure that's the cut that was out of there from Eric I'm pretty sure that's the one that everybody has or that has it now or that had it back then that's hard to I don't know is that the one that CSI has then yes well I'll tell you that my cut didn't come from him directly I got my cut from the boys up in the hill so here's the story right come 2000 you know we're all into clones and we're not popping seeds my roommate partner at the time knew this girl in Arcada and she was a real a cute little kid or whatever kind of datesy and whatnot and he asked her for some cuts and she's like sure you know she runs up into me she runs up into the hills I want to say it was up in Nieland area and got a flat of T Dub he brought it down and didn't tell them that she wasn't getting it for her own read up you know giving it to us and that was my first introduction to the plant I hadn't even seen it prior to that in the years a couple years before that and so we're growing this thing and then come to find out she's getting hawked by these cats all of a sudden because she wasn't supposed to let that thing out that's exactly the same time that Arcada we didn't call Arcada Trenric then but Trenric started getting really prolific and Arcada was like everywhere it's just you couldn't get away from it and then not too long two, three years into that all of a sudden people were bringing their cuts in and bringing their work in and it was you know rare you had ten people line it up and it was rare that you got that original plant cut from that plant I think because of like the tuck seed lines the wood horse seed lines I finally got a hold of a wood horse we can talk to him finally for an interview which would be cool I think yeah he was responsible for a lot of the Trenric out there that head seed never grateful head H&L yeah he did Oriental Express I think yep yep yep but who um God who else did something with it he did Oriental Express we can do a public service announcement don't name your seed line after a famous cut please don't pick a different name this is why we have never seen the same SFV OG cut after swerve released that line never again have we seen that cut don't name it don't name it the exact cut name please God or Larry or Tahoe are all kind of just like up in the air on if you ever see those cuts again it will ever be anything like they were originally because so many seeds were sold under those exact names you know yeah it makes it makes it hard you know and uh yeah yeah and I will say that the Santa Cruz red is not from Santa Cruz by the way that's super common too I mean Matt and I were chatting about that like if you got snow and Humboldt it was Humboldt snow if you got it it was Oregon snow if you got it in Eugene and it was Eugene snow or if you got it in Bakersfield there's Bakersfield snow because that's that's a different thing Matt and then you know people would get it and they would change the name and they would bring it to different places and like names have always been very uh very odd part of the history yeah you know I found out about a local strain here that I never heard of it's actually a city in the mountains here but it's it's very close and it's called the Tehachapi Terror and I found it in a magazine from the 70s and I know nothing else about it but yeah it sounded so cool Tehachapi Terror some bags bag seed mash up yeah bag seed mash up with garb Matt do you or Matt does anybody know like what is the blue dream origin story since we've gone over like not knowing what train wreck is what is blue dreams supposed to be I've heard a few different theories what do you got blue dream wasn't in my world we had green crack and train wreck blue dream wasn't as big out here definitely stuff I saw you know was flown in so that specific cut it was first given to me by Bodie and the people who were around the Santa Cruz area that knew the crowd that was giving it out or where it came from all said it was 98 blueberry from DJ that specific cut that he would pass around specifically a super silver haze from greenhouse and I only know of one company that ever released that specific cross and I don't know if it came after or before so there's things chicken before the egg and it was the blue hen from Kentucky some like that and I remember seeing pictures of both in the Canada Bible so I'm not sure which came first on that but they were both similar type plants and I'd imagine you could find similar expressions if they were both using similar lines to make them I would imagine the only variation I would add to that that I've heard is this haze that people refer to as the Santa Cruz haze being being that cut that was used with the blueberry I have yet to see the Santa Cruz haze I don't know if this is just a myth or if it's I would almost bet my left nut that it would be a super silver haze based on the the turf profile and everything else I would be pretty dead on especially because how quickly it finishes still all that the Johnny blaze I think was the Neville's haze yeah that one took a little bit longer and it still got kind of big like Neville's I could definitely see super silver haze being the father Pac I remember if I remember correctly I think super silver haze got dropped as a seed line in 97 I think it won three cups in a row in the cannabis cups in Holland and I believe it was like 97, 98, 99 something like that it could be wrong maybe it was 96 but it was something along those lines right around there it was right around there I think about like old song super silver haze cut like if I cross that to DJ's cut DJ's mom the blueberry that he sold when he was going around giving lectures and stuff if I cross those two I'm pretty sure I could nail that thing pretty fast it would be pretty regular occurring so yeah I could see how that could be definitely one thing I'll interject is that at the little gathering that we just had one of the favorite things I smoked was a hybrid pack made that was a blue dream by train wreck that's good one of the things I'll say about it is that I think terpenaline has a lot of depth to it but it's so forward and strong like it overpowers a lot of people and that blue dream hybrid with train wreck that blue dream brought like a sweetness in that almost like took like the edge off that train wreck flavor but the flavor of train wreck was still there it just wasn't like the predominant knock you it just took a step back there was like a sweet it's almost like with cooking where like you add some acidity or you add some something to balance out your sauce yeah it had that brightness come through that brightness for sure and we joke a lot that like once you get terpenaline in something it's really fucking hard to get it out and I didn't think anything could tame the train wreck nose so much but that hybrid it really allowed the terpenaline to shine because it gave it a sweetness I actually did a review on the blue dream train wreck in a previous episode in a short episode so go check that out if you're interested but yeah it I was really impressed because there was two things I was very familiar with and they combined really nicely yeah that yeah I think that surprised a lot of people and may have been I think other than the blue dream I think that was probably the one that everybody gravitated to pretty hard yeah it's all luck bro yeah but he still did it it's luck with intention yeah you know I came home from the party and I popped some yeah buddy yes I think everybody did they're like yeah so that that's kind of the impression that that's kind of the impression that it made where I just had to say that two old school you know pretty famous things that cross really well together yeah you know the one thing that I appreciate that all you guys appreciate that your input with that I want to say that the thing that I was struck most with was not just t-dub taking a back step but then the trainer comes through and pushes up the potency a little bit right oh yeah you know both of those in and of themselves if you don't if you're not used to smoking them your body's not used to taking it in they can both hit you pretty hard in their own way but it was it's nice to be able to smoke both of the original parent side by side and then go over and hit hit that combination and see where it kind of got enhanced or got pulled back so it was really a cool treat to be able to watch my buddies in partake with my friends in terms of looking at that in real time and getting that feedback it was really kind of a special thing to do that anytime you smoke like 60 things in two and a half days even just smelling things you smell five or six things in a row and your numb nostrils are kind of burned out for ten minutes but the quality of that hybrid shown in my opinion while we're talking about this stuff let's talk about some of the stuff we saw at the party and some of the different things that we noticed didn't notice I mean Pac it was your first time there and most of it was your first time coming to one of the gatherings so maybe you guys I don't know which one he wants to start but talk about some of the screens you saw what you thought was the most unique what you thought probably bummed you out the most and sure you know as we were just talking about it Pac's stuff surprised me you know that one in particular just how the train wreck came through on some of his hybrids it took a backseat I've grown quite a few hybrids in train rack that's normally a variation on the theme you know it's train rack with a tiny bit of this or a tiny bit of that but you know his hybrids seemed really well blended that one in particular I really enjoyed Bitter's grow of shoreline was amazing that was great and his dog shit electric boogaloo both of those were great it was just a lot the other one that really stood out to me was the Death Star several people you know Panda Brotsom Local Brotsom and that had it was a lot rancor than I thought it'd be it almost had like a Kim D rankness to it you know in that level as far as potency I would say but it was like instead of being like that nasty garbage it was like nasty polyester it's hard to say but it was just it's very complex very ranc and it's pretty fucking hard yeah I dug it yeah that Death Star but no it's definitely it's unique absolutely unique how about you Pac what did you see it stood out there was so much novelty going around that it's hard to kind of determine some from the others I was blown away by the cob just for the fact that we were old cob sitting there and you know Bode brought that through that was pretty amazing I wasn't sure if I was supposed to eat it or smoke it so I just smoked it oh I thought we were supposed to boof it well you can let me know how that goes Bode told me who made it so I just stuck it up my I think that's probably what made you sick yeah it probably was I probably knew exactly what I was going to do with it and poisoned it you know what I do with everything I get so what else did you like um you know I mean honestly it jumped in before I could speak but um you know that the electric boogaloo amazing you know what I mean and I'll tell you what that short line brought me back to my days in high school oh yeah you know I just felt like yeah man I felt like it was 93 all over again it's a time capsule man it's a great one absolutely I look so forward to growing that too by the way so um but you know one that threw me off guard that I wouldn't have gone and picked up um on my own but it happened to hit it and somehow or another it cut through everything for me at that moment I got so high I remember watching Skid just laughing at me you're stuck right now was that uh was that moon boat oh really that was good dude he brought and you know it could have been that I was on the you know 25th hour of the day that might have been it it was four in the morning you know whatever I don't remember the timing I don't remember where I was but I remember hitting that and just kind of floating off into this like other place for a while and feeling embarrassed because you know someone was laughing at me in my reaction you know I was on Instagram and posted about it so it was it was pretty good it was really good I mean I've gone I've gone and revisited it since because you know I was lucky enough to be able to bring some party bags back and you know it's really not that bad it's not something that I would necessarily have in my armory you know in terms of I want to grow this and get into it but I might you know I might do that if I had the right cut but um that one stood out uh you know he came through some some D uh some sour denali which you know to this day I'm still kind of just breaking all pieces off because the fly was amazing yeah he brought some silver D too I like the silver D he did that silver yeah the silver yeah silver that silver fox it's what he called silver fox that that's 21% right yeah the 21% or that's yeah which one uh silver pearl yeah 21% smashing and yeah I made a post about that by the way and um purple scientific chimed in they're like yeah that's not right that's not how it should go and a few other people chimed in and were like yeah my machine isn't working for me like that you know maybe get turned it in get it tested and they're like yeah tell your friend to you know get a hold of us we'll replace it DM us so I DM them and they said it's not mine they're like what are you talking about and I was like you told me to DM you you know like now we didn't okay and left it at that but yeah no that thing was we all saw it like everybody there sat around and watched this thing nail 21% on just ridiculous stuff across the board oh I'm sorry I was going to say I just got one more shot out bro one more shot out if I can to CB to everybody cry baby and and some of the magic that he weaves a friend Panda came down from way up north way in the Arctic made the trip down and I think another friend of our ring our friend of our rings grew out the Meteora yeah that was good yeah and brought that down and then somebody had the what is the B.O. the burnt offering next to that which is a I guess a grandchild of the Meteora and it was nice to have those side by side because you know just smoking that for an offering couple months back I was like wow this is very unique this is not something you usually get often and having that next to the Meteora forward seeing that kind of relation between the two those those pretty interesting for me to be able to get to do that so that definitely sticks out in my mind Meteora 4 was probably my favorite like what would be traditionally considered sativa leaning type there yeah but my favorite out of all of them in that category what about you not so what about you not not to go ahead I'm going to take a different tact I think in that my favorite part of the gathering was the people and the reason I say that is because you know when we threw these parties earlier they were kind of based around the emerald cup it was sort of like a way for heads and friends to gather after the sort of like the big the big gathering itself and this time was different and then it was intentional and it was friends that mostly talk online to each other coming from in some cases literally all over America yeah coming from the far east from the far north from you know people spent a lot of time and energy to make sure that they could come and you know it was no joke getting it it was no joke once they hit the airport to get to where the party was but yeah yeah and I do think that like you know especially with covid and stuff and people being trapped in their houses and being able to spend a lot of time online you can make some really good friends but I do think it really helps to spend a few days like breaking bread with someone getting baked with them eating food shooting the shit I mean one of my favorite things about the event is that you know our our homie who's bitter you know he gets up at like 430 in the fucking morning so he starts tough and whenever I go to one of these events I wake up and I just hear his laugh you know because it's shut out to bitter in his life or holding it down there was this memory I had where I got up in the morning and bitter was on like his like 12th joint or something because he was just a tent on trying all this shit and high and lonesome had just woke up and bitter handed him this joint and it was like a chemde joint laced with chemde keef and high and lonesome took two three hits and he was like man this is like this is not the starter mix for my dad I think he went back to bed after that actually I went to him to pause but you know faces to names hearing people's voices getting to see people's sense of humor where it's not typed out but it's in real time you know the internet is cool because it brings it can bring people together but being able to spend time I think it was a proper to me like old school harvest festival where you have a bunch of real weed people sitting down making friends eating shop eating food joking sharing their passion basically you know and that you know there was enough of us there that each brought some of our old favorites that there was a lot of good favorites there and I can't remember who it was it was like I'm not going to call them out because that would be rude or anything like that but I remember Panda telling me that one of the guys that came brought like all of this like new schools off after he smoked the shoreline and the electric boogaloo and some triton some this and that he like took all his weed and he put it back in the bag because he was like man you know I don't even care about my weed he's like this right here yeah and it's neat because you know we're all older now or whatever and we don't realize that stuff that we have a lot of experience with most new school smokers that have only been around for eight or ten years missed the era of almost everything that all four of us have been talking about this entire time yeah you started smoking in like 2010 2012 if you kind of got into the scene in the last 10 or 15 years you probably didn't smoke real trainwreck or real blue dream or real green crack or what the hell is trace dog or you know it's like because weed it's like a flash in the pan right yeah it's like it really is and and so for me there's lots of favorites I have but I just I enjoy spending time around people who share my interests yeah I agree aside from being able to get to me H&L in person I say that you're correct yeah well even on that like so I'm in the kitchen and you know CSI and Bodie and H&L are all talking and they're like eating like you know we're like smoked fish that Panda had brought down from Alaska and we're smoking weed from over here and H&L and Bodie and CSI have known each other since the early to mid-2000s yeah and it was probably the first time they met in person yep sure was all three of them yeah you know so even that kind of stuff right there I just think is super cool I mean me and H&L have a company together and that was the first time we met that was cool as fuck I remember I was like all all frantic as I came in the door because I was the last one there and like I was driving yeah I was driving in the canyon I can't see for shit it was super dark so it was taken forever so I finally get there and we had to bring the dog because it's big and wild three rooms of shit just for the dog and so I'm dead tired and I remember walking by hugging someone I thought was Panda because I've seen pictures of Panda but I'd never met Panda hugging I'm thinking I hugged Panda went downstairs came back upstairs and goes where's my mother fucker high on a lonesome and he's like you already hugged me bro and I was like um but yeah did you know how to put a sticker on his justice so he could you are all of a sudden he started getting all kinds of attention once he put that sticker on aside from that you know seed swapping clone trading talking about your favorite strains getting to share your favorite stuff with your friends you know I like watching local smoke P91 that was cool watching the young and fucking smoking old San Diego Strain and like fall in love with it maybe I'll throw this out there too is one of the things that I liked about a dead tour was that you could be at a campsite hanging out with people your age people in their 30's people in their 60's you know where a lot of a lot of times you're really only hanging out with like your own age group and we had people there from their mid 20's all the way up to their mid 60's there was probably a 40's you know probably like Denali and as late there was some senior citizens there there was some kids that were in our opinion are barely out of their diapers and I remember and some that are barely in their diapers I remember Panda looking over at me and being like dude I've never been to anything like this in my life to be able to soak people out like that is one of the coolest things on earth and you know I think I stopped Matt at one point and I looked at him and said dude this is one of those moments in time that's quite rare to come across so don't just recognize but I wasn't telling him to recognize I agree with you I just think people taking their time and their energy and money and flying and driving and prepping and all the effort that went in time with friends for a weekend and talk shop you know I felt high honestly like for days afterwards and it wasn't for me I just enjoyed myself immensely there was a lot of positive intention for being that was pretty cool and you know I think that kind of bonding with people in person is important my friend has never been to one of our gatherings before my chick and she went this time and like when we got home she was like I finally get it I finally get how you bonded with these guys I'm like why you guys love each other as much as you do why you guys are so loyal and close she's like I love those dudes now too I feel like they're family I can tell she's not in the room because she didn't throw a shoe at you exactly hey man I'll tell you what the one thing I want to say about that is the world that I was brought into because I didn't grow up in the weed scene I jumped into junior high school kind of thing with the old cats that brought me into their wings that was the energy and that was the philosophy there were people with egos of course there was people with nostrils out there for the most part there was this cultural consideration and this bigger picture that was going on besides the plant the plant brings you together but there's a certain way of interacting with people that really kind of solidified that era for me and to be able to fast forward 20-some odd years and get a touch of that a taste of that again in a very unique kind of situation kind of brought back some hope on my behalf because I'm watching everything else fall out I'm not joining the big I guess I'm not riding the wave or at this point I'm not and it's not my thing but to know that was still well and alive and all we had to do was let it unfold naturally and get there there were a lot of young guys not to say a huge age gap very much similar yeah, we're in it that was great to see I've tried to drive home like in our Discord Patreon to the people that hang out there and the Breeders Syndicate with us and talk stuff and get really into the nerdy end of stuff is like when they hear us talk about the canna luminati they kind of first are like some underground they don't realize it was named just kind of like a tongue in cheek it wasn't anybody who gives a fuck it wasn't any of the famous people that you'd see in cannabis like as the main faces you wouldn't see Snoop Dogg here you wouldn't see any of those guys there but what you did have was the most passionate people in cannabis I felt that's all it's ever been about has nothing to do with how long you've been doing it has nothing to do with how good you are at doing it not even that has to do with your passion, your drive to make this your passion really I think that's how we all found each other it's pretty cool you could be on the same level as a brother you'd never met from halfway across the world and you guys were walking the door and it's as if you knew each other your whole life nothing better I definitely think it strengthened some friendships which is pretty cool and the fact that it was pretty quick either way as far as the actual weed goes since I pontificated a bunch about the human element you hit everybody's feels I've been super clear that I think that the 90s and the early 2000s was sort of the golden era of weed and so most of my favorites are things from that era the chems, the cushes the train wrecks, the blue dreams the shoreline for my for my age or whatever I just find most of that older weed hits me better it gives me a better effect and even if it's a wide variety of effects it's the rare weed that's been made in the last five or six years that hits me like some of that older stuff and so having a bunch of friends bring their personal favorites you know he mentioned it but Bitter brought two, three kinds maybe four kinds of cush along with the electric boogaloo along with the shoreline high and lonesome had some chemd and some headbands fire chemd by the way and some different things and then Pac had train wreck and blue dream and classics the blue garlic train wreck was a big hit too and there was a few different people that brought the death star and just different things like that I mean eventually at first I was like oh I wonder if there's going to be enough weed and then I was like man I wonder if there's enough places to put all this weed because we kept moving table tops and all that well not so usually it brings it all most of the parties it's been 80% yeah I'm not bringing a bunch of stuff he was concerned it was that way because I had greenhouses and stuff like that even if I'm like monocropping say two things for the market I would have a 20 by 30 bed that was a bunch of headstache and it was just me so the first two, three parties we did I don't know Matt I probably brought pounds yeah like in real it was like pounds of each individual thing I probably brought like four or five pounds of like total but it was like 35 different things you know I think it was like one to two pounds of like 35 different things it was a lot it was a lot and then the other cool part of it is in a commercial environment just everyone sharing being super generous sharing samples to all their friends you know CSI dumped a bunch of various crosses he'd made on the ground so that anyone could grab them up people were exchanging seeds and information I think I should shout out too not everybody could do this because some people flew and didn't drive but I brought some mementos from my past Matt brought a bunch of very cool magazines and old art and rare catalogs of different things for people to look through and no one stole anything but that just ended up in my stuff you're the only other person that brought books so it just ended up in my stuff but just a bunch of friends cooking and eating out and smoking things and chatting and all that it really does make a difference yeah well the vibe too right like it wasn't a competition it wasn't about who's got the biggest ego or the biggest issue it was you know really kind of this joining right like check this out I think that makes a difference too we've talked about like do we want to make it like a cup event we've talked about it a few times to train a few of us and it's like I don't know man would that change it like even though it's all really close friends as men we're competitive you know to a degree and if you have like a prize or something that we can all like argue over like flex on even flex on each other over it just changes the vibe completely so I don't know the hard thing too is when you have a party like that with the way that weed works it's like a snapshot in time so there was friends of ours that couldn't come because of conflicts there was weed that was almost done that couldn't make it that was on the line but not quite ready to be in the bag so it was kind of like what do I have ready at the time and some of it was a little fresh some of it was a little old some of it was perfect but really what it was it was mostly just like you know it's kind of like everybody brought stuff and it's like here's what I do for love and here's when I'm cropping right now to survive and here's a variety of things that incorporate all that you know I mean how better can it get man I mean the only thing my only complaint with it was that it needed to be like an extra two days yeah for sure and I needed like a humidifier and throat while we had it in a pretty dry mountainous part of California and with all the talking and smoking I was like a husk yeah you sounded bad at the end of the day I think most people I talked to or heard their voice for three or four days afterwards were in the same position it took a minute it took a minute to recover I'm gonna give a shout out to Cry Baby he sent this and I'll give a plug to the company too this is that piece I brought it to the party and he sent it out so we could use it at the party I love that it's a molten I think they say it's the G Y Z R perk which it's just a few little holes but it's probably my favorite piece you don't get like crap all in the lip you know I don't know one of the coolest things and this is the tornado I think it's called a tornado whatever that was the other cool part was just I mean I brought a tube and stuff but there was a bunch of different vapes not only that but just like smoking the way people prefer to smoke which can vary widely local tried glass for his first time he had only ever smoked out of joints or blunts I'm like bro you have to try that and after that he was a changed man and then he tried the grit and he was even more mind blown that weed could taste like that well it was funny with that old school fucking vape box the crew like that method that we figured out with it or whatever and then what's interesting about that is you smoke a joint a blue dream or you vape a blue dream or you take a bong hit of it and you get different qualities after that not to explain what that box was again oh man so the box it's like one of the it's probably like one of the older vape devices that came out it's probably been around for a good 20 years or longer it's been a long time and it's basically a can you guys hear it oh I'm sorry hold on let me stop that we got an interesting house here it likes to make some noises hold up there it is so it's like a wooden box that has like a glass element with a ceramic on it and you can dial it in for how hot it gets and then it has like a glass mouthpiece with a tube for lack of a better term that connects to another glass piece and most people would end up like filling the glass like really deep and then you get one or two nice hits and then it kind of tastes popcorny and it kind of loses its flavor and it's hard to deal with but what we figured out 20 years ago is you just grind up weed and you just use the mouthpiece and you just suck up a little bit just enough the motion looks like when you do it you have to like hoover up the weed yeah but what do you do do you put it to your mouth I do you have to put it I smoke by putting things to my mouth and inhaling I don't know how other people do it but that's my method I inhale you can get you to pant a mime and so you can coat the screen with a little bit of weed you can get two or three really nice hits and then you can blow it out in a little bit of water or glass or something like that and it just is really user friendly yeah that can completely change my rip tech too now yeah we the vape wares box right yeah vape wares and vapor brothers made vape wares, vapor brothers indeed and we smoked it a bunch and it kind of fell in and out of favor and then when we figured out how to do it that way there was like a couple year period where like that was the method I bet, why do it any other way and you get really clean turps that way you know you get really like a really good sense of like the profile of how the weed tastes I feel like it's a little bit of a different buzz I think you get way higher in my opinion I at least it's it's a noticeably different high than smoking any other way it's got to be because like the volatile shit that would normally burn away right away you're actually experiencing what it's like to you know and then the other thing I'll say is that since everyone was so generous with samples I'm still smoking off samples I brought home and I got a much better sense of a lot of the weed at home yeah and I did at the party because when you're at the party once you've smoked 27 kinds of weed in eight hours through nine different methods you're just looking for what cuts through at that point yeah what cuts through but it's like you know it's hard and it's like then it's like I can wake up and I can do some chores and I can take a couple hits of this and go do some stuff and I'll be like oh it does that yeah it's got that kind of effect you know like oh it makes me want to sit down and do nothing or like Pac said with the train wreck oh like it makes me want to move did any of you get to try the banana tie oh yeah the banana bride actually it makes me want to move makes my heart pound I love it a bit much for me yeah that's the other part of it that I do like you know Pac used to live up in Humboldt and I do think that like Humboldt and Mendo and going to I call Santa Cruz like the very edge of the weird bubble you know that there's enough weed people doing stuff around you that there's somewhat of a community you know and we got some friends that came out from Illinois and from Alaska and from here and from there that they're kind of like the only person like them in their little community yeah and so it was really really nice to see especially some of the younger guys get to hang out with a bunch of people like them of all age groups I think probably for them it was like more memorable even for us I'm sure I don't know I don't know if memorable would be the correct term seeing how you're all so high you probably aren't going to retain a lot of the memories yeah I remember a fishing hook almost hit me in the head a few times yeah you know just speaking of that bubble not so that you brought up and itched all the while back one of the reasons why I didn't get on the farm back in the days because I was in that network from the network that I had around me was kind of compartmentalized right like there was the cruise down in Big Sur and you had your Monterey cat seaside guests and other people in Santa Cruz and Humboldt but I never had a need to go outside of whatever the network was that I was working within in terms of trying to reach out or find out what's going on with others or growing techniques not that it wouldn't have been something that would have been helpful at that point but because of my propensity to not want to be on the radar whatsoever and even touch a computer and say anything on there that had anything to do with whatever I wasn't really compelled at least in my group to feel like I need some connection outside of what I'm doing on my own I wasn't really that lone wolf space and a lot of people I think and Hdell could probably speak to this better than me but a lot of people who weren't so connected or had to be even more discreet right and I weren't going to talk to anybody it was like that was a great place to be able to make those connections and really kind of figure out what was going on right yeah here it was a whole different animal I mean you didn't you knew two guys maybe in the area it was you know if you wanted to be amongst people like you you had to find them online because you weren't talking to other people around you doing the same thing weren't talking and it's still still kind of like that here even with some version of legalization it's still pretty closed at least the people that have been doing it a long time I agree and I also think that because we're sort of like a very small subset of a subculture right in a way like we love weed for weed you know is that the internet is a way for lots of people that have sort of unusual interests to find each other right from all kinds of walks of life that or bathroom stalls we only have two choices I mean you know so that's how I got Nazis numbers indeed right off the bathroom stall but yeah I mean I agree you know it's that even in people think I get it all the time where people think that Mendo or Humboldt is something that it isn't because they think of it as like this weed mecca which it kind of is but it also has all these elements that like you wouldn't really get unless you live there and so I but you know just sharing time and energy with like minded individuals I think is a good thing you know and I was like pack I too I was scared of the internet especially when Heaven's stairway and cannabis world and over girl all got shut down I wasn't very tech savvy so I got worried that like everything I didn't said would be permanently there that they could find yeah it was a little bit it was a fast green merchant yeah it was definitely probably 1990 and this was like probably I think those busts happened until like 2004 if I remember correctly but I didn't like when with Haian Lonesome being on ICMAG and all that like I worked in that era but I just basically like you were on someone else's computer yeah and I was in Norca Lake County Mendo you know it was kind of a booming time for my area for cannabis yep not mine no not yours Matt we didn't get you partner what was the standout or standouts for you man oh fuck I don't know of course a blue dream just because like it's a classic for me because I'm such a blueberry head like that's what I pulled to let's see like the main standouts I know everybody was stoked on the shoreline I didn't get to try that one but that's when I remember everybody being real stoked on and hearing about um yeah I like Caleb's flight plant he's called flight risk or flight plan I always get it wrong that was a good one flight risk flight risk there you go yeah it makes more sense than flight plan um and then there was he had one called the blackberry wine 69 it was really unique and tasted and smelled like wine like chardonnay that was cool um there was the the uh sweet 16 I want to say that was really good that was a pinks and perps selection I think yeah it was from the pinks and perps like the blackberry widow hybrid mendo perps type thing yeah kept going back to that jar as a matter of fact yeah there was so much stuff there that it was just ridiculous to try to go through it all there when I got home I didn't try the desktop much when I was there when I got home I really enjoyed it you know p91 I finally got to try when I got home and that was really good really good grow of it um and it didn't always silver pearl I never get enough of silver pearl and I've never had outdoor silver pearl yet and it was still pretty good I liked it and it actually had a pretty pretty strong high for silver pearl 21% 21% at least 21% yeah that's what I dug I was wondering silver pearl I have a bag of that silver pearl it was smoked on the other night and it looked like something didn't always put out so tasty yeah it gets to be a nice backyard victory garden yep you know and so he gets to do a bunch of favorites and stuff like that so um yeah he had I gave him my sour diesel cut he had a pretty nice example of that it was good I didn't even get to try that I don't it's a hard one outside like the flavor varies a lot outdoor but the potency is there for sure oh wait no I take that back I did get to try that one he sent it to me on the poor hand it was good did it really good outdoors I was like wow this actually is really good sour at first he didn't know he's like I don't know if this is good or not and I was like no it's actually coming through in the outdoor it has a great smell yeah sour sour is so variable outdoor it is but you know I feel like the high normally is there it's just the flavor and the looks for me are very very cool definitely it takes a long time high in Lonesome so you really need a good season yeah in order to get it to express right because you really need that last two weeks to be banging and it likes to go towards Halloween-ish or even early November-ish at times so you don't always get that weather not here now not even in Mendo sometimes you know it just depends yeah it just depends sometimes you get real nice warm dry falls and other times it's rainy and problematic yep so my phone's about to die Matt yeah well I'm going to we're almost at two hours I'll touch on the 420 sale real quick we got a sale coming up on 420 we have some freebies from high in Lonesome what are the freebies you're going to be throwing in they are the mule skinner so that is GMO cross to Appalachia that's awesome and goat farms going to be a part of it too do you have any freebies with your stuff yes sir what do we got I think we're going to throw in maybe we're going to do that afghan arcane across and then I guess something called hell melon and that's it it was a watermelon skittles hybrid yeah watermelon skittles hybrid crossed with an F3 Angelica which is one of Buddy's cuts a buddy of mine had been working on that for quite some time around here Angelica got it to a nice spot it's going to be something they're going to have a few things from both of those gentlemen and we'll be having a big percentage off and I'll be throwing in some other freebies too we'll be letting everybody know about it shout out to molten glass again for this awesome glass it really is my favorite piece and shout out to cry baby for hooking it up and we wish you would have been there this year but you weren't buddy we'll see you next year yeah buddy next time and I would just like to throw in that Matt convinced me to start chatting in public we kind of wanted to bring like real weed talk without like so much promotion into it and so everybody on this chat today is my very good friend and so anytime I get to chat with my homies it's always a good time and so I'm super glad that high and lonesome impact and all of us we got to chat for the last couple hours very enjoyable about damn time yeah I just wanted to mention that that uh everybody on this podcast today is my really good friend and I appreciate them a lot so but you got any closing thoughts that was my closing thought was this I just wanted to be pretty much if you know you got one no I mean the positive vibes coming from not so pretty much covers it yeah we all do this for the love of it and it's just great to see like minded folks out there yes sir I agree I agree well you know just stoked to be part of a good group of people and sharing a similar philosophy that goes beyond just chasing the dollar you know what I mean it's really cool to know that that's well and alive you know and you got some merch coming out soon too yeah maybe yeah yeah well you know we're always in the lab doing something around here yeah I would say I would say keep your eye out you know I don't know if anyone does follow on Instagram or not I have a tendency to kind of post some things that I'll be working with maybe a couple months ahead of time and that's for me to get an idea as to what I'm doing right it's all part of the betting process but if you're wondering what might be coming down the pipe here in the next six months to a year or shorter you know there's some good things in the works I'll say that short line that short line on the green crack is on the list oh yeah and you know maybe maybe some blue dream work you know who knows yeah it's in collabs with you in high on lonesome in the future maybe I hope I think that's in the books I think it's a good idea yeah that might be something I think it's on I said I think it's on the radar yeah oh well you know I'm just stoked to watch my good buddies want to grow some of the shit I've been putting together H&L's you know gonna be popping some things you know things are starting to show up so you know I'm just thankful to be part of it all and it's you know you create you not so create something really unique here and I appreciate it I appreciate it man yeah I personally I grew up reading like high on lonesome stuff like on the forums and ah dude becoming going from being like an admirer to one of my best friends has been a huge honor and same with you learning you learning learning who you are and who you are behind like your Instagram person but the person behind that and and how you're involved and stuff has been pretty mind-blowing it's pretty been really cool get to introduce you to everyone and so they get to learn your story too and slowly slowly hopefully everybody else will over time so we'll see how it goes look at how nice he is to you too I know and then there's that I get rest up jokes you guys get warm admiration all that is is he's been loving you a little bit longer indeed sexual frustration sexual frustration fellows old married couple it was a pleasure it was a pleasure but my phone literally is at 2% so if I die it's that and then not so it's dead so that's that not so it's dead and then I'll talk to you guys one second you want to sit at the table with the syndicate check out our patreon and our link or description below our merch site is officially live on the web our merch site is officially live we have all sorts of shirts hoodies and goodies to sort you out shipping is super fast and most importantly the quality is top notch I've been saving old designs for years for this purpose so please check it out syndicategear.com we also have an underground syndicate discord where we get together and solve old strain history together daily it's an amazing community of learning away from IG and it's an amazing resource for old catalogs and knowledge we hope you join our union of breeders and growers come check it out