 We're glad to know you're still there. Right now, we're taking our second hot topic. And Ribadu tells EFCC to block funding of terrorism, kidnapping, and banditry. That is what we're looking at. Remember that the EFCC was launched recently and he was giving this admonition there. So we have a guest, Mr. Tocque-Temocon, a legal expert that will be talking to us on the show this morning. Good morning, Tocque-Temocon. And welcome to the program. Melissa. Okay. This mandate, more or less, that has been given by the National Security Advisor to EFCC. Let's first of all see how much EFCC empowered to be able to carry out this. Block funding of terrorism, kidnapping, banditry. How much powers do the EFCC have, first of all, before we see if they can actually do or carry out this mandate? Sorry. It's actually broken from this end but to the extent of what's up here. I think the question was trying to find out how much is EFCC empowered to carry out the task. Yeah. Of tackling money laundering and financing of terrorism. Yeah. If I get to write. Yes, you did. Yes. The legal framework for the task with which the EFCC started with is already there. We have been having laws upon laws. Above all, the EFCC has said, which actually gave the agency enormous power to tackle some of these infractions mentioned even without new laws. The EFCC has given the agency enormous powers. And in 2022 under President Buhari, three new laws. President Buhari said three bills into law. You know, therefore that empowered the EFCC to go after serious money laundering acts in Nigeria. This is the foundation of financing terrorism in the country, which is a disruptive effect on the economy. And that is the money laundering provision at 2022. Terrorism provision at 2022. A process of crime recovery and management at 2022. This new specialized laws empower the EFCC. There is no more power that can be given to anybody, any agency in the whole world to deal with these infractions more than these laws that have been in place. But what principally are lacking? They are not laws. They are not the good framework. Even the other criminal code we have, ordinarily, has empowered the EFCC with powers to deal with some of these crimes. But when we now have specialized crimes in modern society and new laws have emerged, the new laws automatically create a body that will make use of that instrument to deal with those actions. But what is lacking? What is principally lacking in the EFCC is the willpower. There is no consistency. Rebado was talking from experience. He was the same man of this body when it was that body. The EFCC was the EFCC. And the glorious part of that body, Rebado was part of that history. If not one of the principal actors, it was part of that history. So he was saying that the EFCC needs to do more in making use of the available new frameworks to deal with the acts of money laundering and financing terrorism. He knows what he is talking about. As far as Nigeria is concerned, what is principally created by National Security Act to deal with issues that go down with other security. But when some of these bodies evolve at edge with time, they tend to be tempted to go outside the scope of their legal framework to the tempting ground of what almost destroyed the general Niger police. They want to go to deal with those areas that are not the principal destroyer of the economy, that are not the principal destroyer of the country. But those areas that can be materially beneficial to them. That is what took some of these bodies out of their creation to deal with matters. Land matters, some civil matters that are clutched in no criminal form, they leave the terrain of their primary assignment. If the EFCC is consistent, if the EFCC is courageous, if the EFCC is determined, and there is a willpower from the government to allow it to function, but there are no flaws that will allow the EFCC to deal with issues of money laundering and financing of terrorism. Even when those crimes cannot be totally eradicated, because they are sustaining, they will be reduced to the barest minimum. But the willpower is not there. So I agree with what Ribabu said. He charged the body to go after some of these interactions in order to help the economy and the country. Well, one of the challenges I've seen in security in Nigeria seems to be sharing of information. And Ribabu went, talks to the EFCC. Sorry, I'm not actually connecting. It was breaking somehow. Can you hear me now? Yes, I'm hearing now. Okay. Ribabu has spoken with EFCC and we're hoping that they're going to sit up and do what they need to do. But what about the synergy between the EFCC, the DSS, the Niger police, the Niger army? There seem to be a problem with sharing of information. How do you think the EFCC can achieve this almost like in isolation? No, the reason why I'm actually connecting with these questions is because I'm the principal at all, you know, in Nigeria project. I didn't hear most of the question, but I know you're talking about synergy between the EFCC and all other bodies. Yes, in tackling this minus of money laundering and financing of terrorism. EFCC cannot actually be working alone, specialised agencies. This, the duty with which they were saddened. These are not duties that the general Niger police can actually do it. These are assignments over which the general Niger police are already fed. But when they are created to deal with that very huge task, there's always a temptation to train, to go outside the public of that very huge tasking assignment, to, you know, the human, the human, the Nigerian human factor, to work and materially also benefit some of the personnel of the agency who are entrusted with enforcing this law. Now, when EFCC had, it's when it started, you know, there was confusion as to which body which agency you still haven't wanted for financing terrorism, you know. The EFCC had to call me to investigate. Financing of terrorism is not done, you know, it has a connected road. EFCC, that has power to investigate money laundry, you know, can go into financing of terrorism. But the EFCC has powers to deal with the use of money laundry. But they have the powers under their hands to deal with the use of financing of terrorism because they've got that security. So, if these two bodies do not work together, if these two bodies, they see themselves as liars, then they have a failure. Instead of fighting the common enemy, they will not be fighting each other. You can see what happened, you know, in cause. This is fighting locally, you know. The Nigerian police don't have to take synergy between these two bodies to be able to achieve their aim. But it's under the law, creating Nigerian police, they can deal with financial crime. But because financial crime has become a tradition, it has become a culture. So, there is need for a specialised body that can deal with it. People with Nigerian police structure. There was SFU in those days, special fraud units, you know, illegals. The function of SFU in those days. But when the structure of this country over time has made it possible for every agency created today is for sure to have young boys and they also dare into land. This is a code in which every city has left their primary assignment, particularly places like Oguwalegos, where land is like gold to land matters. You know, because this is where the code is. Whereas the primary assignment, because they are easy tasks that are not material and beneficial. When you post, you try not to tell. Or in private place, where you have some of these internal processes. It's an easy job. It's not as difficult as going after money non-drugs and financiers of terrorism. Those are easy jobs, but they are not material and beneficial. Because there is no culture of accountability too. But for recovery account, for recovery. How do they account for what are recovered? They are recovered from some ability. It is not possible for them not to go into those easy work that are more material and beneficial than concrete best-selling choice. Even in government, from some of these sufficient money laundry, the money being lost won't compare to all politicians from that, particularly during election time. So how do we have this? Okay. Yes, sir. My concern now is for these people, the people that they are supposed to go after and track their accounts or just do their investigations. When they get these people, how do they prosecute them? Or is it just a slap on the wrist and they move on? Do they face the music? Because if we are saying that we want to kill banditry and kidnap him, we have seen cases where they said they have a list of these people funding terrorism. But why haven't we seen that list? Why is no one being prosecuted? And even when they find out, do they prosecute them that we know of, that the whole masses know which name and shame them? Or do they just say, oh yes, you did this slap on the wrist, you pay some money and you move on? Well, as a liberal practitioner who is also a role player in the feed, the prosecutorial success of some of these bodies, but the people that we see see this much is not satisfactory. Right. And I know that Puli Baghe has actually taken over from the normal traditional prosecution of criminals and not that and not that, because every criminal has consequences, but Puli Baghe has taken over. But, similarly, because it is so easy, those who are truly involved in some of these crimes, it is so easy for them to Puli Baghe. And why do they do that? Investigation takes forever in Nigeria. A waiting trial takes forever in Nigeria. Prosecution takes forever in Nigeria. And so when the orientation is there now, in prison all over the country, even people that commit murder, the forces they will throw to them, the prison management, you know, those who become their friends over time, they will tell you, you better go and play Puli Baghe, because they know that the system, the prison system in Nigeria is also contributing negatively towards the sources of the work of the student. If it is in a civil society, where investigation takes a very definite time, prosecution takes a definite time, conviction takes a definite time, prison sentence shall be taken a definite time, you propose Puli Baghe to somebody because it is the only one of the persons that are taking the custody, who actually commits some of these crimes. So if you propose Puli Baghe to somebody, who is innocent? If you want to face, you want to prove Puli Baghe is innocent, you want to prove that's not so. But because of the property of good tradition, in investigation, prosecution, and sentencing, people take Puli Baghe, and when they take Puli Baghe, it's an easy way out. Alright, Puli Baghe. I wish we had more time, but we do not have much time. We have already gone out of time. Thank you so much for being part of our program this morning. Thank you. Merry Christmas, please. Merry Christmas to you. We've been talking to Tokwe Temokon, a legal expert, and we're talking about the mandate given by the National Security Advisor, Ribadu. He told the EFCC to block funding of terrorism, kidnapping, and banditry. We're looking at how successful that can be and what the enabling laws are. This is where we're going to wrap up the program this morning. We're very happy that you were able to stay with us till this moment. We'd like to wish you a very, very Merry Christmas. Yes, we'll be seeing you on Christmas Day. So, Christmas Day will be here together with you. We're expecting our hampas and our cakes and wines and chickens and all that. So, it's going to be a wonderful day. So, happy weekend. Merry Christmas. My name is Nyangul Agadji. Merry Christmas. My name is Vermeck Paulson. Have a wonderful celebration. Good morning.