 I hope you're all ready and set for our first panel discussion of the summit where we're going to talk about the new media for marketeers. Ladies and gentlemen, welcoming our session chair for this session Mr. Jayesh Ullattak, vice president and general manager India in Mobi. A very warm welcome to you Jayesh and I'll leave the screen over to you to introduce our panelists and also take the session forward. Thank you, Khyati. Thanks for the warm welcome. Welcome to the discussion on gaming, the new media for marketeers. My name is Jayesh Ullattak, I live in India business for Mobi. I have had the opportunity and probably I've been with gaming since the days of engage when I was with Nokia. Gaming has probably evolved quite a lot from that time and it's actually become much more exciting a space right now. It certainly has moved in terms of the size because earlier it used to be a niche area, niche segment but now it's gone across. You've seen the two reports from Mr. Menon and Rajesh and the kind of audience that we have is huge. So I won't take much time. Let's just go into this panel discussion. We have a wonderful set of panelists out here who have great experience across the board on gaming in multiple formats and let me welcome the panelists. Ritu is the head of marketing. She's the director for marketing for Dell Technologies and with Dell Alienware and Sperron Brands which are custom designed for serious gamers. I'm sure she has a lot to add to this particular discussion. We'll leave it to Ritu to actually briefly talk about what she does. Ajay is shy. So great to be here. Like I said, very, very much looking forward to this interesting discussion today. Gaming is a very important part of our overall portfolio for PC notebook portfolio not just across the world but for India as well and with Alienware and G-Series it's a kind of segment that we go after. So looking forward to the discussion today. Thanks, Ritu. You also have Mr. Nilesh Kohil, Chief Business Officer, Markal Sokrati for more than two decades of experience in analytics, digital and mobile. What would you, Nilesh, for sharing some of your or some some assignments about your work? Hey guys, thanks for having me. I hope you can hear me. Yes. I am part of Markal Sokrati which is a team of all 1000 customer experience specialists. And I lead a team of about 500 experts in digital transformation and customer activation, predominantly working in India market and had a chance to contribute to a number of unicorns and growth-minded companies in India. And I had a good fortune to work with a few of the gaming players as well like Sokro and Basi and Games24 and so on. So it'll be an exciting and interesting learning for me and others I guess. Wonderful to have you on the panel, Nilesh. So I think we have another interesting panelist from the world of gaming, Reshmi Ranjan Mishra who heads Nazaras free to play gaming division. Reshmi, you might want to add a few words on what you exactly do. Thanks guys. Thanks for having me here. Thanks guys. So myself, Reshmi Ranjan Mishra, I made the free to play business division of Nazara Games and it's been a long time we have been in the gaming space trying a lot of things, doing a lot of exciting stuff that I will definitely share with the guys, my insights, my thoughts on the system. Well, I personally have been heading the business revenue for Nazara Games. So it's been a very exciting journey for me where we have been evangelizing brands and you know day in, day out for the how brands and agencies can leverage gaming as a space and help helping them achieving their marketing goal. Great Reshmi. Thanks for being here. Adding more marketing to this panel is Mr. Vinit Sharma, VP Marketing and new business developer in South Asia for AV and Beb. Vinit, love to hear from you more about your work. Thank you. Thanks for having me here, Jayesh. And my name is Vinit and I lead marketing and new business development for AV and Beb in India. Gaming for us is a relatively newer space but we have taken some interesting steps with our brands and some of the campaigns that we have done have had gaming at the heart of it and we have learned a lot and the results have been very, very impressive if I may say. And today I'm very excited to share some of those experience with each one of you and learn as well because there's a lot of things that each one of you are doing and you know and there's something that we can be inspired as well here in ABBF. Great Vinit, thanks for being here. And last but not least we have Ashwin Patnaban from Groupon. He has the mandate from Groupon in investing and creating with media, data, tech and other products to enhance the value for their clients. Welcome Ashwin, welcome to the panel. Thanks Jayesh. I'm actually quite excited because as we speak we at Group M are incubating eSports business and it's on the back of a very successful sports consulting business which actually works across multiple clients. But eSports is clearly an area that we're seeing our clients being very interested to know more about and to see how they can actually engage with this community as well as brands which are involved in this space. So for us an important I would say an inflection point because we're seeing consumers flocking in big way and which means brands are clearly interested. So a lot of questions for us to ask and answer right now. Great Ashwin, thanks for being here once again. So welcome all. It's great to be part of this wonderful panel and we have already said the context. We have had two reports coming out one from Mr. Menon and from Rajesh and it's quite enlightening to see the kind of changes that have happened in the last few years and especially during the pandemic. We have seen some great changes in terms of the adoption of gaming within India as well as globally. People talking about the kind of adoption in terms of the number of people who have started gaming on mobile gaming, the kind of percentage of women involved in gaming so on and so forth. Interesting statistics and look forward to this discussion. So to start off with I'll put this question across to everybody who will pass on the question. The first thing that I just would like to understand when you think of gaming or think of mobile gaming, what's the first thing that comes to your mind? Can I start with maybe Arithu, would you want to talk about what's your take on that? Specifically when you say mobile gaming I think what comes to my mind is scale. Very clearly scale. I think that's been a good big enabler particularly and we've seen that in the report that was being shared in the previous session that a lot of scale happened particularly during the pandemic because a lot of people were actually looking for online entertainment and those options were there and I think mobile enabled and allowed that to happen. So definitely scale otherwise when it comes to gaming I think of plenty of opportunities and I think of engagement. Thanks Rithu. Let's just move on to Ashwin. Maybe you can share some insights on what is the first thing that comes to your mind when you think of gaming. Actually lesser insight more than experience I would say Ash, because for me being also one of those casual gamers adding up the numbers that Rithu spoke about. For me those reward ads that come are top of my mind because they allow me to play more, they allow me to go and do more things in the game. But that's also a sign of the fact that engagement levels are very high and from a branding perspective surely this is something which as marketers we're always interested to know how to leverage better. Thanks. Nilesh, would you want to share your thoughts? Yeah, I think my sentiments are similar to what Rithu mentioned. It's a massive business opportunity especially as we work on the other side of the table enabling advertisers to tap onto this. I believe it's something that is relatively untapped and I mean personally like Ashwin said I have been also an avid game player and fondly remember those stimulating experiences especially in my younger age and I think yeah the video games have come long way. Don't say that you're not playing any games now. Yeah, I do but much less than I used to and it's like the second half of the humanity comes on board in the internet. I think more and more social media, the videos and the gaming are taking the center stage of the new kind of phenomena of entertainment and I think gaming is a much bigger role to play as it evolves. Great. Thanks Nilesh. Moving on, let's hear from Rashmi since he's coming from the world of gaming. What's the first thing that comes to your mind? So Jayesh, I've been hearing to an extreme panelist earlier. I was listening to sessions from Sai, Rajesh, Girish and all that. So I've been hearing and listening to them and we all know that what kind of scale, gender, female, male kind of participation, engagement is happening in gaming ecosystem that we all are hearing for quite some time now. But to my mind, so what I will say two things, so far as the gaming comes to my mind, that is high on entertainment, that is high on engagement. These are the two factors I would emphasize upon. And the third interesting thing Jayesh, I would like to highlight here. So I was hearing to one of my friend's kid, 10 years old boy, he was telling me, I was surprised to hear. So he has started thinking how gaming can be a career option for them. So when I ask them what do you want to become, he told me, Uncle, I want to become a gamer. So that's a very surprising and I got surprised to hear that. So I can say that's a career option for millennials. So that's very interesting thing that's happening. Absolutely, Reshmi, I have one 14 year old at my home who also seems to be taking up a career. At least I'm trying to see what can happen out of it. So I think, Vinith, we are left to hear from you in terms of what is the first thing that comes to your mind when we think gaming. Yeah, some interesting perspectives already coming in the groups, Jayesh. But for me, I think gaming, two things come up. One is new ways to reach customers. And brands today are using gaming as a very active marketing tool. I think it's coming up very sharp. And they are just going beyond the simple ad placements to create actually their own games to build out of engagement. And obviously the time on gaming has increased. And brands who are actually following where the consumers are going will actually spend a lot of time and energy in thinking, what do we do in gaming and how do we become a part of the experience. So that was first and the second one is a huge economy of gaming industry. Today, I think it's valued around 150 billion plus industry. But if I look at from a brand side, and then the cost of playing a video game is no longer actually limited to just purchase of a base game. There's so many revenue driving mechanisms. And that's where our brands come into play. I'm very, very inspired by what Louis Vuitton actually did with the League of Legends, where they're actually creating collections in real life, as well as online skins. So it's a good example for brands to follow. And obviously there are a lot of brands who are already in the brand market. So you have two things. One is new ways to reach customers, as well as the same time, a huge amount of the growing economy and the growing industry gaming is becoming in times to come. Great. Thanks, Vinit. In fact, that was leading on to my next question, which you have partially answered, which is basically as a brand advertiser marketer, what's your perception of gaming and what is your perception of gaming as a medium? It's something which I wanted to ask. You have already come up with some of the answers. Let's also hear from Ritu, because she also comes from the background. How does she look at it as a brand marketer advertiser? How do you look at gaming as a medium, advertising medium? No, absolutely, Jayesh. So I think, like I said, for us, gaming is the right context. It's the right platform. It's the right environment to reach out to the audience that one wants to engage with. If I look at a scenario which was probably pre-COVID and sometime back when the perception about gaming was that it's a very niche kind of an audience that you're reaching out to only a hardcore gamer or maybe a certain profile of people that you're reaching out to. And that's the only kind of, if you had that as part of your TG audience to find, then you would use gaming as a platform for you to engage. But that mechanics has changed completely, as we've seen that even in the report, because the demographics has widened significantly. It's no longer a young man's space, you know, a niche urban young man's space. There are no limitations in terms of demographics. It's white. It's white base. There are no limitations in terms of gender, in terms of age. So with the kind of games that are mobile, particularly mobile gaming, which are now getting introduced, it suddenly the audience profile has opened up to you. And as a brand, we are wanting to reach out to that set of audience, which is anybody's audience for that matter. If you're reaching out to that set of audience, then that's a good opportunity to do that from an engagement standpoint. And also, you know, very honestly from our perspective, it's also about engaging with them and giving them the right platform and giving them the right experience and the right nudge, because eventually they may want to upgrade from a, you know, from a five inch screen to a 15 inch screen, you know, from a mobile to a PC, because as they go evolve in their entire gaming journey, they may want to get into more, you know, a different kind of a gaming experience altogether. So from a brand perspective, yes, there are lots of opportunities available. And we have done that ourselves, both globally across the world, as well as in India, some good partnerships that we've had. I think what's important is, if it's done in the right manner, yes, you know, as we said, there are, you know, display ads which are possible. And that's one very obvious platform that exists. But what is, what is amazing now is that the possibilities in terms of what all you can do as part of that gaming, you know, in space, whether it's as part of content, whether you build it in as part of your whole space, whether it's part of the franchise that is spoke of, how can you as a brand engage, you know, kind of get yourself into that space and engage in a very relevant manner, you know, contextual sense, that is what drives the quality of engagement that you want to drive with that audience. So I think that's, that's something which is available. And it's an opportunity which is being tapped, but I'm sure there's a lot more that is left to be tapped. Great. Thanks, Ritu, that, that, that, okay, what I hear is two things. One is catch them small, make them big. That's one. And the second one is the kind of engagement that you can bring in through gaming, being part of the content or being more immersive in the content and being part of the gameplay. That's something which you're talking about. That's great. So from the same perspective, audience and in terms of the kind of width of, you know, reach that you're able to get, I would like to hear from me. Nilesh, you could talk about what, how do you perceive gaming as an advertising medium? Because you would have both the cross brands, you would have had the experience of using that particular medium. I would like to hear from you. It would be great for the audience to hear from you. What is that perspective as a medium? Absolutely, Jai. So I think from like reaching out to new audience, like Ritu mentioned, and Vinit mentioned, right? I think that that's the primary mechanism that brands have been using. The Googles and the Facebooks of the world remain the primary kind of a medium. So otherwise, right, in the marketing budget. So the brand who wants to scale very, very fast, right, the gaming and the programmatic way through which to reach out to these users is the primary mechanism for incremental audience and kind of augmenting the cost of acquisition for that incremental audience. I would say the gaming is another interesting element which is like rewarded ads, right, which creates highly positive brand association as well. So while it has other normal ones like banner and video and so on, but I think the rewarded ads is predominantly used by kind of performance oriented marketers. And another area that we have been kind of doing innovative work is on dynamic ads. So making sure that each of the ads are dynamic and playable in nature as much as possible to ensure that the advertisement outcomes are achieved. All right. So what I am hearing from you is gamification of ads on one side, which creates more engagement. Second one is rewarded ads because their completion rates and engagement is also higher. Thanks, Nilesh. That's great. The next question I would specifically want to be addressed by Reshmi because he comes from that world and he would have a lot of insights considering he actually hits that part. Reshmi, the question is beyond normal regular advertising, which is your normal banners and rewarded videos. What are the different things that you can do as an advertiser? What can advertisers do apart from this regular things to get more traction or what are the opportunities for advertisers on gaming beyond regular ads? Could you throw some light for the entire group as well as the audience? Am I audible? Yes, so sorry. I was on mute. Okay. So absolutely, guys. So this question, I mean, asked every meeting that we attend or every pitch we make to brand or agency, that what else you can do in gaming for us beyond just video, display, etc., etc. So the question is always that how we can create, bring on that immersive stimulus experience to the consumers through your gaming platform. So that is the basic question that every day we have to answer. And we have to justify that how gaming can add value over and above just reach, scale, or the ROI kind of or the visibility kind of scenario. So I'll be happy to share a lot of things that we've seen in the market, a lot of case studies, a lot of campaigns have seen the market, be it the recent Red Bull campaign, which is done on the biggest cricket franchise, WCC, the campaign where, you know, a lot of lax of, lax of users, lax of participants, they participated in the qualifier round, the second, the final round, the final round, and this is being watched live stream on different 20 YouTube channels and being watched by 10 million fans, they're getting huge reward money at the end of the day in the finale. And in the game itself, you have a lot of scopes, a lot of touch points, where you seamlessly integrate the brand, creatively integrate the brand, and you host content in their name, you change, you customize the game mechanics, game control in the name of the brand, you place the brand, I mean, inside the game more creative manner, more without hampering the, you can say the user experience, and you do a visibility, engagement, and finally you deliver the viability from the brand and the gratification, gratify the users to build kind of, you know, top of the mind, engagement, interaction among the target audience. So ultimately what I'm trying to say is that the brand has a very clear objective, they want to reach out to the maximum of their TZ through gaming vehicle. So the agenda is very clear, the target is very clear. And two, three more campaigns, examples I'll be happy to share, like the campaign of Detol we have seen, where in the game, Chotabhim game targeted to kids and their family, where in the game you highlight the message, you deliver the message that, hey, did you wash your hands, sanitize your hand before you eat something. So that is something that kind of engagement, interaction you create inside the game, where you deliver the message, you educate the target audience that, hey, have you used the product, the product before you do something. So that's the point I'm trying to make is that beyond just scale, delivering video or display inventory at scale, or you deliver programmatic inventories by delivering campaigns programmatically, you have a lot of other things that which can impact a brand, which can help the brands to grow and create a visibility amongst their audience. There are a lot of examples we all have seen, we've seen that Mountain Dew Arena campaign, which has been a successful franchise for last, so a swing can add to that. So a lot of we've seen the participation, the visibility last few years has been going on, that franchise has been going on successfully. So the point I'm trying to bring on to this table is that brand can't, should not look gaming as just a simple logo integration or a video integration, rewarded video or whatever it may be. But on the top of that, they can create a lot of interaction, they can create engagement and can, they can deliver the message in a most creative and a best possible manner through gaming. Interesting, interesting. Reshmi, thanks for those insights. I think what you are referring to is the fact that there is a lot of digital touch points that are happening now, which is a meeting point between the virtual and the real worlds. If I were to take the example of the recent, what happened with the Marshmallow concert, which happened within the game of Fortnite. So such events, such digital campfires create a lot of traction and create a lot of engagement, those are things which brands can leverage apart from just normal advertising. I would like to hear about that because I think you do a lot of work around eSports. I'm referring to Ashwin, you do a lot of work around eSports. And I would like to hear your thoughts Ashwin on those kind of specific events that can happen in game and can be a touch point between virtual and the real worlds. What do you have to say about that? No, absolutely. I think there are multiple spaces around which a brand can get associated. And one of those spaces is the social space within the game. So if you take the Fortnite example, Fortnite created this social space where your author could actually participate in this concert. In fact, I remember you spoke about the Marshmallow concert, but I think in April 20, they did a Travis Scott concert inside the game. And that had about 27 million people watching the concert. And they had close to 83 million streams that the concert was watched by. So they've done multiple events like that. They've also, in fact, the movie Tenet, Christopher Nolan's Tenet, the premiere of the trailer actually happened inside Fortnite. And in fact, Christopher Nolan has announced that he's going to release a movie inside Fortnite. So clearly, people are figuring out ways in which their audiences that are in the social space of a game, how can we leverage them? How can we create content which engages with them? And how can we create events which engage with them? And those are actually extremely exciting opportunities beyond what we've seen as obviously advertising. These are engagement opportunities. These are huge brand building opportunities and does require a significant amount of programming. But I guess the sheer scale and branding that is feasible and possible. It's actually mouthwatering. Great, great. I completely agree with you. And that's an area which India probably has a lot to do and we can as there is that opportunity to be grabbed with. There is a lot of opportunity there. My next question, I'll probably direct it to Ritu and Vinit because they come from the brand marketing background. Since both of you would have had a lot of experience in, you know, leveraging gaming advertising or at least you have been thinking about it somewhere or the other. What were your objectives? If you have tried it out, what were your objectives and what are the kind of demand, sorry, what are the kind of impact that you have experienced using this particular medium? Maybe Vinit, would you want to start off with what your experience has been? Have you been using it more content or it has been inventory bias? How have you been looking at the gaming inventory? Yeah, no, absolutely. We have actually branched out from just ad placement, so not just only media bias. In fact, we're looking at much more curated experiences for our audience, something that the earlier panellists, Rashmi actually was talking about it as well. In fact, during New Year's time, we launched the game under our flagship brand advisor called Conker 2020 that offered individuals an opportunity to kickstart 2021 on the new note. This was a completely native route. We created a game from scratch in partnerships with Underdogs Gaming Studio, Aqua Dominantrix, Animal, some of the agencies that we work to create this game. This was a very friendly refresh on how collectively all of us overcame a lot of challenges in the year of 2020. The game was divided across a lot of levels, people challenging each other. We engaged a lot of gaming enthusiasts via contests, revolts, and merchandise on our social media platforms. Not only that, we partnered with a lot of renowned gaming influencers, communities on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube as well to do that. The results were pretty amazing in a very short time. A lot of fans, not only from a media impressions perspective, but we got a lot of user-generated content coming out of the whole thing. People were actually making videos and telling can you beat me on this code? Can you beat me on that score? It was very, very good, and people were actually advocating on their social media platforms, telling us that, I've got this code, can you beat this? We were giving pretty good rewards to a lot of these people. This actually from a brand side, after doing this, we became the most talked-about brand in our category in December. We got around 1.5 lakh people playing out this game in a span of 7 to 10 days. We delivered around 100 million impressions. Not only that, we actually were trending on Twitter for top five, for some hours as well. We really leveraged this because in-game advertising and in-art placements, we do, but not at a big scale. As I said earlier as well, we are trying to understand this world of gaming, but whatever we believe, I think our brands need to not just be a logo up there, they need to play a much better role in the narrative of the games. That was the intent. We wanted to engage with our guys, engage with our audience, who are a fanatic fanbase of playing games, and the results are speaking. It was a very, very positive start and I'm pretty sure a lot of our brands will now catch up to this matter of gaming in particular. Great Winnie, that's a great story and I'm sure that something which should get more audience so that more people try out these things. Ritu, maybe you also have some experience like that where you have specifically had some objective and probably meant to... Absolutely. To answer your question, what's the kind, how have you been using it? I would say it's been a combination. You experimented with both regular display ads as well as trying to do something which is more immersive, which is more engaging. That I think is the beauty because the platform allows you to do that. If you're able to place yourself in a relevant and in an intrusive manner, which is very integrated to the way the game is being played and I'm going to pick up one example that we ran through. Given the category that we deal with and it's a high price category, particularly when you're talking about gaming PCs and there is innovation and technology that goes behind these products and obviously the objective as a brand marketed in that space is to highlight those aspects or those features of innovation that a gamer would be able to appreciate in a manner because the whole objective is like I said to help them upgrade from a 5-inch screen to 15-inch screen. So G-Series actually has our inspirant range of gaming products. G-Series something has a game shift key. What that does is that whenever it's required at the touch of a key it allows you to boost your processor power for you to get that advantage that you need at that particular point of time and we had this thing going with game loft where what we did is game loft again has a has a you know has a nitro booster where the car can get that added speed you know when you when you need it at a particular point of time it has the advantage of that speed that that the car can get. So it was a very beautiful interplay that came in together and we identified those moments and opportunities within those various layers and stages of the game where these two things could go hand in hand. So it could be at the start of the game and the race is just about beginning or it was also a point of time when they had you know access to more game money or game tokens because it was at the end of it all about gamification and we know that you know gamers really don't mind those interventions because it gives them the opportunity and I think somebody said that they like the part that it gives them either the free plays or it gives them the you know the gaming money or the points they're in. So it kind of is linked back to it. So we identified those layers within the game to see how and relevant places where it could go because that's where there are it's a very seamless integration that was possible and I would say this entire thing really paid off very well for us because the kind of engagement trade that we saw in that as part of that particular integration was fantastic absolutely fantastic and and acting as a as a marketer I would want to be very conscious of the way that we are doing these things because it should not be something which is just there for eyeballs nothing wrong with that strategy of course depending upon what your brand's objective is but for us it was not just about eyeballs but it was actually about bringing the life an innovative concept and an innovation feature which in this case was the game shift key and how that very beautifully tied back to a particular concept of the game itself. So that's that's one of the ways that we have done this. The other thing that I would say is we've actually taken gaming a little differently and I actually you know spoke about a 10 year old talking about saying I want to be a gamer and you spoke about your son I have a six year old nephew he wants to build games he plays game but he wants to build games so we have this you know and we know that with the youth in this country that there is this desire to kind of go into that. We have this program it's an online or offline kind of a social engagement program called the futurist and we know that gaming as an industry has a lot of pull that people have at the same time there's a fair amount of enigma that exists around it because the most obvious choice of course is I want to go and be a gamer a professional gamer. All right that's fine what after that and what are the other opportunities that exist in this industry surrounding that in that entire ecosystem. So we actually have we've been partnering with you know Ankit Panth who's a professional eSports player and there so we've partnered with him and we've had these mentorship sessions and programs with for the youth particularly talking to them and about all the opportunities that exist in the gaming ecosystem for them to grow and develop as a profession if that is really what their passion is right now and they would want to convert that to their profession later on what are the other avenues that exist beyond just being a professional gamer what are the other it could be a shoutcaster you could be a game developer you could be anything so there was this whole experience that was you know a kind of like a program that was run for them so it's it's the idea is to tell you that these are these two very different opportunities that the industry offers from a gaming perspective depending upon what your brand's objective is I think the opportunity is like I said it's opportunities it's there for us to leave agency absolutely thanks Ritu that's that's quite insightful especially the part where you are trying to do something which is more relevant for the community as well from the development perspective moving on so let me just take this we have a positive of time here so we need to be a little quick with some of the other questions that I have which I want to put across to the panelists one the next thing which I wanted to talk about was or wanted to understand the views of the particular sorry I think there was crosstalk so essentially one of the key things and advertising is obviously audience getting the right audience getting the right kind of segments that you want to target your advertising too and gaming as such as a as a medium also provides the opportunity probably rightfully so because of the kind of the kind of game the kind of games the genre of games all matter and all also talk about the kind of people who are playing it essentially how do we how have we been able to utilize that segment how have we been able to take audiences into it this question I would like to pass it to opposed it to Nilesh because you might have cut across multiple segments and categories when you have you know planned out some of your campaigns how do you take that how do you look at the different segments and audiences right so I think being a performance market here right our experience is complimenting what I think Ritu and Vinit and Ashwin say right it's a it's more closing and making that final purchase from the awareness that is built through the the account type of advertisement or engagement through ads that were done earlier right through those innovative mediums now here I think there are like we discussed I mean money follows the eyeballs and and gaming is in a way perfect combination of a right audience at the right time and now we need to hit with a in a way right messaging and a communication and ad format like I earlier mentioned I think the ad format especially the rewarded videos and dynamic ads are the crucial ones that I think we have experimented with and now we have a zero static ad policy right so that that's that's how we are going about conveying to the the audience now on the audience side right especially for food tech for example Swiggy or for entertainment like boot and gaming companies like Basi right the the the gaming targeting and closing like installs and and engagement right the purchases and so on have worked phenomenally well uh so for example Swiggy I think we have seen a almost a third incremental audience with a about a fifth better cost right Basi we saw like three x jumps in the the customer engagement and the CTR so the the gaming inventory right is something that now forms about about a two-fifth of our programmatic buys that's a practical so that's a very very big right as a as a evolved marketeers right that we represent it's an important one and and we have a Denso marketing cloud that is built to form a layer on top of this audience right to get better insights and and and then be able to do better targeting as is obviously we do a multi-touch point marketing right for our advertisers right right I think that makes a lot of sense when you when you're telling me that you have the audience layer on top of it and it's quite insightful when you're saying that almost two-fifth or almost close to about 20 percentage of your entire uh you know 40 percentage yeah two-fifth yeah 40 percentage is on gaming that's that's quite eye-opening actually we've been all talking about the positives about gaming I just wanted to understand from the panel are there any concerns when you actually as advertisers can can you tell me one or two concerns that come up in your mind when you look at gaming as a medium maybe you can Nilesh you can maybe I'll go because this is really top of mind right now because see a lot of the games obviously have content which could be by nature violent could they could be blood they could be gore all of that right and in fact a lot of the games esport games if I look at for example CS go these are all you know extremely aggressive games absolutely and that's clearly a challenge for a lot of brands do I want to be seen in an environment like that do I want to be seen so spectrum of brand perspective the second is obviously what's the messaging that I as a brand responsible brand and what is the message I'm giving to the society I think that's the second question that comes in the mind of the brands do I want young impressionable kids or even adults like us to in a way be addicted to some of these things these are questions that are coming so how do you how do you leverage the audiences that are coming with the with the whole gaming experience and at the same time how do you stay away from content which could be not the right kind of content to associate with I think that's going to be a challenge because unfortunately a lot of the content which does get the eyeballs may not be you know typically brand safe got it got it so brand safety is one of the concerns maybe maybe we need to share something because you have two sides to look at it one is from my brand regulatory perspective absolutely absolutely you can you can share the one one one in fact something we faced as well considering we launched as I said earlier it launched our own game as well I think one of the thing is you know is gaming piracy in particular and a lot of these challenges used by the producers of the games for interacting with players in particular can be hacked as well and a lot of third parties can do that hacking so you need to be mindful of a lot of data leaks and privacy information on a lot of our consumers you know into if not done rightly can also have a lot of concerns you know we also as I said faced something but we obviously was a very very small part but you know these are the concerns one of the big concerns that you should be really really careful about and the second part is actually something that Ashwin also touched about that you know the gamers can be heterogeneous in terms of age brackets especially with regards to the age I mean some can be quite young some could be older as well so addressing to a very specific audience is what you're looking at that sharp targeting could be one of the concerns as well that are you doing that spillage as well through some people who might not be you know you should not target your brands to a certain audience but that also is another concern so first thing that is in the hacking part and secondly you know just a sharp targeting that marketers in particular or media managers look up to whether that's happening or not so that's the other one great thanks I think that makes sense especially targeting piece really does become a challenge if you are cutting across multiple segments and if you want sharp targeting yes Ritu maybe you have some thoughts to add on this as well some of the concerns that you might have come across Jayush if I have to pick one and based on what Ashwin and Vinit said I would bring it back to brand safety both in terms of the context in which the ad is appearing and your brand is appearing and also the audience to which you're speaking so yes there is a targeting challenge but I'm extending that targeting challenge also in the you know in the realm of brand safety because the right content to the right audience as a brand and in the right context is what you would ideally want so all these three things have to fit together so I would probably put brand safety as the biggest one because great thanks that's that's wonderful maybe Nilesh you have this is a topic which I would like to hear from everybody on because there could be concerns which we have not addressed Nilesh is there something which you have come across apart from brand safety targeting and probably the hacking piece yeah there are a couple right so one is around the equation cost right again from a performance market here point of view in a program I take from a bottom of the funnel tend to be more expensive compared to the traditional mediums like Google and the Facebooks of the world so and an only way for advertisers for now at least to justify this investment is to get an incremental growth and an incremental cost of equation lens so that's number one the number two is I think there are certain platforms that specializes in gaming inventory purchases has certain limitations on where you can land the kind of ad clicks too right so for example only PlayStores and therefore certain advertisers want slightly more exotic for example app download through an APK those kind of support isn't available at the moment right so those are slightly more nuanced but gaming from a performance standpoint still yet to realize its full potential from a post and as well as certain platform limitation point of view great thanks Nilesh I think we have run out of time this this panel will have to end prematurely so let me put it this way let me try to summarize the discussion it's it's great to once again have it was great to interact with all of you some great insights which have come up the good things about gaming that I I've learned over here in this panel is basically the scale the kind of engagement that can be done the kind of differentiated thing that we can do on on gaming as a platform and the challenges obviously boils down to basically brand safety albeit in multiple realms of content as well as context and as well as the cost somewhere where what Nilesh was talking about I think thanks everyone that was a great a great discussion and I myself am going back Richard Mann in terms of my understanding of gaming look forward to hearing I would have taken some questions but we have already overshot the time so I leave it to the question there are any questions maybe you can reach out specifically to the organizers and the questions can be directed in the past year of time we won't be taking questions but thank you Jayesh for staring this really interesting conversation and thank you to all our panelists for taking out the time and being here and sharing your insights here with us thank you so much once again thank you lord Jayesh and Cathy thanks lord thank you thank you Jayesh