 Live from Boston, Massachusetts, extracting the signal from the noise, it's theCUBE, covering Red Hat Summit 2015. Brought to you by Red Hat. Now your hosts, Dave Vellante and Stu Miniman. Welcome back to Boston, everybody. This is day three of the Red Hat Summit, day two for theCUBE. I'm Dave Vellante with my co-host, Stu Miniman. This is theCUBE and we're here live at Red Hat Summit. theCUBE goes out to the events. We extract the signal from the noise. The man is here, Jim Whitehurst, CEO of Red Hat. Great keynote on Tuesday night. Thanks so much for having us here and thanks for this great conference. How are you feeling? Feeling great. It's great energy. We've had a lot of great announcements. Customers seem happy, so it's been phenomenal. We are at the dusk of the industrial revolution, the dawn of the information revolution. I love that quote and it's so true. We live in this time where machines have always replaced humans in the industrial revolution and now we're entering what some call the second machine age. Talk a little bit about your keynote and some of the key messages that you gave the audience. Sure, well what I think we're seeing is as information literally breaks loose from the physical assets that they're tied to, whole industries are coming apart and changing. So we're going from horizontal structures to vertical structures. And so companies like Uber and Zipcar are disrupting companies like Ford and GM. And so that's interesting in and of itself. But when you think about how you solve that problem, well the way we've solved those problems in the past is we've had management structures of companies that need to figure out what to do next. And the problem is the traditional management structures were built for the auto industry of old or the industrial revolution. It was people coordinating, people doing relatively rote tasks in pretty static environments with relatively uneducated kind of assembly line workers. Well now we think about when organizations have to focus on information, analytics, they have to change quickly, they need to innovate. Well we all know bureaucracy doesn't foster innovation. So if corporations need to exist or organizations need to foster creativity, well what does that look like? And so we need to have a rethink of mindset, management, process, culture in large organizations to focus on agility and innovation rather than just efficiency. And you're a practitioner of that open organization. You wrote a book about it. I haven't read the book. Stu's read the book. We got a copy of the book actually. If you don't mind holding it up there, hold it. Absolutely. It's in high there so everybody can see it. So yeah, so first of all, congratulations on writing the book. It's not an easy task, especially when you got a really large organization to run. And so as I say, I haven't finished at Stu. You've read it but we're inspired by that kind of vision. As a practitioner, what catalyzed you writing that book? Well, for Red Hat we believe if we have anything valuable, it's incumbent upon us to share it. And I think I've been given a particular gift and that was I came from a traditional structure. I ran Delta Airlines before coming to Red Hat which is as military traditional structure as you can have. And I come from a classic Harvard Business School train, white shoe consulting firm background. And so I thought I knew how to run a company. I thought I knew what management was. I come to Red Hat and my first month I thought this place is chaos. I've never seen anything like this. They've brought me in to be adult supervision to clean it up. And what I learned over time, it's actually a great way to run a company. And I used the analogy, yeah, you put a frog in water and you heat it up and it'll never jump out. And I think that's what's happening to a lot of managers. The world's changing around them. They don't realize that they're part of the problem in terms of how they manage and lead. I was thrown right into boiling water to see such a different structure. And I recognize there's a need for a change. So I've jumped out. And so it was such a gift given to me having a chance to see that there's a better way to run a company. I thought it was important for me to tell that story. So it's really a book about how Red Hat is different and how we've applied open source principles to running a company rather than anything that I've done. It's a book more about what I've learned versus what I've done. Jim, I was struck as I read the book that so much in technology, we talk about the new technology, but we know it's kind of the people and the organizational structures and how we go about things. That are some of the hardest parts. What I really thought was a great case study in the book is how we interact with each other. You said one of your roles there is being the head debater. And it's challenging when you say, anybody can come in here and say that something's not right. Ideas can come from any layers inside the organization or outside the organization. It's tough for people to get away from what they've done. Can you maybe give us a little bit of insight as to how you move from the I'm used to the way decisions used to be made to how we need to make decisions in the future? It really is tough. It's tough because people in general are too nice. People don't want to tell somebody that's a bad idea or a dumb idea. There are a few people like that, but 95% of the world wants to be nice and they want to get along well with people. And so you have to kind of create that edge. And so if you think about being a leader, if you really want to get the best out of your people, part of what you have to do is create the context where the right decisions get made. And that requires that you make sure that you have open frank conversation. Ed Katmul recently wrote a book called Creativity, Inc., where he talks about Pixar. And he has a great quote and I'll munch it up a little bit, but it's basically, if there's more honesty at the water cooler than there is in the conference rooms, then you have a problem. So as a leader, several things you can do. One is take the other side of a debate. Like push your people and make them recognize that they need to debate and if they want debate, start the debate. Because once you get it going, they're much more likely to truly engage with you on it. You got to celebrate. Actually, it sounds painful, but when somebody disagrees with you, it's painful, but you actually need to give them positive reinforcements. And I said, thank you for bringing that up. That's a really interesting opinion. I appreciate the fact you disagree. Let's have a conversation. You got to celebrate it. Because when others see that you are celebrating and thanking somebody for being frank and challenging you, it makes them more likely to do it. And it's like a flywheel, you get it going and it ultimately comes built in your culture. And you can accomplish truly amazing things when people are really willing to open frank debates. So transparency in organizations is really sort of a new watchword. You've seen a lot of successful companies. I mean, I know, for instance, ServiceNow that the chief management at ServiceNow very focused on transparency. You guys still have that same ethos. A lot going on here at Red Hat Summit, you had the financial analysts in, you had the industry analysts in. Talk a little bit about what some of the other things that are going on here at the event. Well, we have some really exciting things that we are doing at Summit. And I think they're following the two categories. One is so much amazing innovations happening in open source first now. It's the web 2.0 companies are doing everything in open source, containers, all the various cloud management platforms, mobile. All of those things are happening first in open source. And Red Hat's always been involved in that. But I think we've taken another leap this year. Rather than just say, hey, we're going to commercialize great open source projects into products, we've recognized that enterprises to consume all this innovation need it packaged together in a way that can work for them. So rather than just say, hey, we're going to package Kubernetes or Docker or a lightweight Linux. We brought all together and we have something we're calling the atomic platform, which is a full manageable platform to be able to run containers at scale fully managed or with OpenShift, right? It includes all of that as well as a whole development tool chain. One package, one subscription, one set of documentation where you can run a full life cycle DevOps with dozens of open source projects all brought together in a consumable fashion. And that's a big leap forward to make it much simpler for traditional enterprises to consume this great new technology in a supportable way. I know one of the messages that you sent to the financial analysts that we've heard at this conference is that when Red Hat started it was sort of commoditizing Unix and now you're a much more strategic partner to CIOs obviously to developers and you're expanding into new areas. I wonder if you could talk about that transition and what gives you confidence that you're going to be able to sort of repeat that success that you've had in the past in this new world. Well, that's a great point. So Red Hat started with Linux. If you're about Linux is it looked a lot like Unix, right? It was kind of Unix drone on x86, but it was a lot cheaper and a lot more innovation was happening there. And so I'd say for the first decade of Red Hat Enterprise Linux, we were the purchasing department's best friend, right? We could come in with an order of magnitude lower cost versus Unix and that was some about the chip it was some about the software and over time we kind of caught up and passed Unix in terms of functionality. But we were still primarily the purchasing department's best friend. While all that was happening, the internet exploded and Web 2.0 companies exploded and they started doing all of their work in open source. So all of the things happening in big data in cloud and mobile are being driven by technically sophisticated companies like Google, Amazon, Facebook, et cetera. And so with all that code out there, it's allowed Red Hat to do what we do, take these projects and turn it into commercial offerings. And so now we can go talk to customers about things like, oh, you want to deliver mobile applications. We can offer you a whole suite of software to be able to do that and it's a platform or containers, really important new technology that people want to adopt. We can take great open source technology. Not that we've developed, but the community have developed and bring that in a way that's consumable. Or oh, open stack and we can kind of go on and on on the list of things. And so what's happened now is we're becoming the CIO's best friend because we're bringing low cost technologies but we're now also bringing those in a very innovative way. So the latest, greatest bleeding edge technologies that can really move the needle on the capabilities a company can provide, we can bring those to enterprise. So we're both low cost, but we're also very, very innovative. And because we're already such a core part of CIO's infrastructure today anyway, because of RHEL, we're a trusted partner that's bringing them innovation at low cost. And that puts us in this unique, very strategic seat at the table partner with our customers. Doug Baylog said this morning, if you chose the IT business because you think it was stable, you chose the wrong business. And so we see these ebbs and flows. When you wrote the book, I think Red Hat had a $10 billion valuation. It's now got a $15 billion valuation. Who knows, two years from now it could be a $5 billion. But generally speaking, as the market grows, well, you know, you get downturns every now and then. But as the market grows, which this market tends to, the peaks are higher, the valleys are higher. And so that's sort of growth companies tend to behave that way. So let's put Red Hat in that growth company phase. We like Red Hat. We think fundamentally it's very sound. You guys have got a great business model. One of the unique attributes of the business model that you've been able to perfect. So the question is, as you expand, as you expand your TAM, you know, we always ask, how come there aren't more billion-dollar software companies, you know, open-source software companies? I'm sure you get that question all the time. We may or may not cover that, but I want to know, can Red Hat be a $10 billion company, a $15 billion company? Pick whatever number you want. Can it be the small of the big whales? Is that the vision of the company? I wonder if you could talk about that. Oh, I absolutely think we can. Recognize what's different about Red Hat is we are, our source of competitive differentiation is around a production system called open-source, right? So if you think about most high-growth software companies, you know, Salesforce, right? They are providing SaaS to CRM and now some other categories, or VMware, right? They're riding a wave around virtualization. What's different about Red Hat is we aren't about a technology. It's not like how big can Linux be or how big could Jboss be. It's how can we apply this production system to categories of technology, right? And so our primary growth is taking share and establish categories, right? So if you look at still the server operating system category, it's a $10 billion category. And yeah, we're doing well, but we only have a little over a billion dollars in that category. I don't care if that category grows next year or not. I want to know how many share points I'm going to take from Unix and Windows next year. In middleware, middleware market's not growing mainly because of us, right? Because our price points are lower. I care how much share am I going to take from WebSphere and WebLogic next year. So so much of our business is taking share that we have a defined market that we're driving into. It's not like we're creating new things. Now the option value in Red Hat is all these new things that we're doing, which is different. So how big will OpenShift be? I have no idea. But for so many of our markets, I know exactly how big the storage market is. And I know we can disrupt storage with open source software to find storage the same way we disrupted Unix. So those markets are clear and it's a share take. And that makes us different. Huge tan, great. I love that answer too. So Jim, yeah, I do love the answer. The concern I have is I was at DockerCon earlier this week and everybody I think agrees with you that open source provides a competitive advantage. I see AWS there. Microsoft loves Linux as we said at this conference. So everybody's tripping over themselves to really attack this next generation. So why is Red Hat going to be able to kind of win their fair share or more as containers and some of those other pieces grow? Well, so far we've been the only company that's been able to demonstrate uniquely adding value to open source code for our customers. I think one of the reasons you don't see a lot of billion dollar open source software companies is selling free softwares hard, right? I mean, and so what we've learned and is deep in our DNA is the functionality of our products are free. And it is just deeply in our mind that our job is not to drive technology agendas because that's done by the communities that we work in. Our job's not to sell software. Our job is to be involved in communities and ultimately then just maniacally think about how we add value around the code. Marco Bill Peter, who I think you're going to talk to later is a great example of that. We sit around and obsess about, well, what else can we add to value the subscription? What else can we add to the value of the subscription? Because it's not about the code. We know we're going to have new versions come out with new functionality driven by those communities. But the DNA and the whole ethos mindset of the company, which is just every day, how do we add value? How do we add value? How do we add value on top of the functionality? I do think it's different. Most software companies are about building software and selling software. I think even most open source companies are primarily enamored with the functionality they can provide. And I think because we kind of came up through the movement, we understand that it's not about the functionality. Functionality's free and it's so deeply built in our core and around our capability. The example I use, if you look at Toyota, Toyota developed the Toyota production system, right? TPS, Kaizen, took the market by storm. They're now the largest automaker in the world. They invite Ford, they invite GM, anybody can come tour. They're happy to share everything they do because they know how hard it is and that nobody else can fully duplicate it. Frankly, I feel that way a little bit in open source. And again, it's not about the upstream. It's how we commercialize the way we built our culture to serve our customers, selling free software is not an easy thing to do. I hope some others can do it, but it is a really difficult capability that we've built over 20 years. So all those guys that you're disrupting, they have huge portfolios and now they come in and say, hey, open source, oh, we have one of those too. And I feel like it's like the NFL, it's Copycat League. And they say, okay, yeah, we're going to do some of this open source stuff also. We're going to throw a few committers at it. We're going to talk open source. We're going to swamp the market. We're going to maybe bogart the code. Hey, we use open source. We don't even have to give back. How does that change the dynamic of say when Red Hat got started? Well, I think we are seeing, because open source is now considered innovative, it's considered safe, secure, reliable, everybody's jumping on board. And so for us, it means we need to scream louder because the messages are getting mung together. So you get foundations forming, which are really one company, providing 90% of the code and structures in them where one company fully controls the foundation. The code is open and licensed only. Open source is about the power of participation. You get other companies exactly right that will say, I'm going to take the code, or I'll offer a derivative of Red Hat Linux and they're not contributing upstream at all. We have to scream louder about the power of participation, the importance of that, and continuing to demonstrate that with our customers. I was with a bunch of our customers this morning, one being Amadea, so you talked to yesterday. Yeah, great interview. And they keep saying, look, what you're doing at OpenShift is unbelievable. You need to scream it louder. I point back is, well, you need to scream it louder with this, right? Because we need users to be out there screaming because vendors, let's say the vast majority of vendors don't want true open source to be successful. That's bad for them. Giving away software is not what most vendors are about. So help me square a circle because I still have some contradictions in my head that I want to rationalize with you. So I heard a video this morning in one of the keynotes and it was talking about support because Red Hat sits in between the application and the infrastructure. It's got visibility on the entire stack and can be proactive about providing support. We've heard a lot about integration. You said it's hard to innovate in a silo. I juxtapose that against some full stack player, Oracle, from silicon all the way up to the application. Are there advantages in that level of integration and can they offer those advantages or does open source over time and even in the near term to midterm accelerate its development and integration and swamp that model? Well, the way I had to answer that is in any single one year time period, taking the existing technologies and weaving them together in a tightly integrated vertical stack will always outperform a layered architecture. However, those stacks don't move forward because you have to innovate the whole stack together versus innovating layers. I'll take an older example around it. This is what happened to Unix, right? You had the chip was tightly integrated with the operating system, it was tightly integrated with the applications and it was smoking in the 1990s. But as soon as Intel and Linux and then the application vendors could be on top separate from that, as soon as each of those could innovate at their own heartbeat, the chip innovated faster than the operating system, innovated faster than the operating system in the vertical stack and the applications could explode faster than having to be so tied to an operating system that wasn't moving. So over time, let's be clear, Linux exists not because it's cheaper, it's because the investment banks and stock exchanges were the first users and they were buying because it's faster, not because it was cheaper. And so I am sure if you snapshotted a set of technologies today, you could optimize a vertical stack that would be higher performance, but two years from now, the layered stack's going to outperform and you could build another one then and two years later, the later stack's going to outperform. So that sets up an interesting discussion later on today with Doug Baylog who was sort of, he didn't mention Intel, but he certainly was talking about Intel. So we'll take that up with him, Jim. We won't put you on the spot between your two partners. I love what IBM's doing, it's open power, they're opening up, they understand, they need to build an open ecosystem and work to kind of build that ecosystem to innovate on its own and we'll support that with we're all sitting on top of it, right? So they can continue to innovate at their own rate. So Jim, when a company reaches the size of yours, usually one of the big challenges is, how do I balance kind of my R&D, my internal innovation and the M&A, how I grow throughout that? If you look in traditional organizations, they say cost structures, the way I build the organization kind of just smothers any new innovation. Can you speak about how you think about that? Because Red Hat has done a number of interesting acquisitions in the book you go through, how it needs to fit into really the open source model. Should we expect to see some more M&A around, maybe more open stack, maybe in the container and management space and how do you really let innovation grow internally? Well, see the cool thing about Red Hat is, we don't do innovation necessarily directly internally. We only get involved in projects that have a broad user participation, right? So I'll take a non-open stack product, something like our data grid, right? That was based on Infinisband and that started off a couple of Red Hat people, said, hey, there's this cool project called Infinisband out there. So we added a few more people and hopefully got to the point we offered as a product. For us, the innovation we're doing now around containers is, well, it's Docker, it's Kubernetes, those are things that others are involved in. So I don't worry about us losing innovation internally because we are so externally focused to suck in that innovation. Now, on acquisitions, we will continue to be acquisitive because recognize, and this is another mistake that a lot of open source software companies make when they say, well, I'm just going to take the code. If you're not actively participating upstream and driving a healthy community, if you don't have the capability to take the hot fixes that you're having to put it in production and drive those back upstream, then you can't be an effective open source software company. So we have to have significant contribution in any community that we're going to offer product around and often those committers work for another company and so we can either try to hire them or we can buy the company and we kind of do a little bit of both. With OpenStack, we primarily hire people with technologies like Sephora Gluster, we ended up buying the companies not for their revenue, they were tiny at the time and not for their intellectual property because they had no intellectual property. We bought it for the people, not only for the people. And so you'll see us continue to do a mix of getting involved in open source communities directly and acquiring key talent that are the key committers and other upstream communities. Yeah, Cormier, I think, quoted Peter Drucker saying culture trumps strategy every time. So when you think about M&A, is that where you start? Is it culture and DNA of the people? Well, it starts off with culture and DNA. Are they going to fit and do they really deeply want to be a part of Red Hat? I mean, let's take an example, last year we bought a company called Ink Tank which had the key committers around Gluster and we paid, I don't know, it was $107 million. Imagine when you go to your board of directors and say, I want to spend $107 million by this company. What's their revenue? And they say, what's their revenue? You say, well, it's around zero now. It's a startup. They're like, okay, that's okay. It must have great intellectual property. And you say, well, no, it has none. And any that it creates, we give away. Okay, well, it must have a really great brand. And you say, well, it does, it's called Seth, but it's an open brand that anybody can use. And they look at it and you say, so you're going to buy a company with no revenue that, by the way, is losing a lot of money. It has no intellectual property and no brand and you're going to pay $107 million for this. And the answer is, yes, what are you getting? And the answer is great people, great talent. We can't buy companies like that to get great talent if the great talent doesn't want to be at Red Hat and plan to stay. And that's both a matter of, are they going to culturally fit and do they deeply want to be at Red Hat? And so that has to line up for us to be acquisitive in an open source context. And so in that model, you get, it's essentially, you get a way, a strategy that allows you to get into the storage business. You get a cultural, you know, then people injection. And then you go after whatever it is, $30, $40 billion storage market with a disruptive model. Exactly. Now we get a hard three or four people and try to get them involved in the upstream SEF community over time. But we looked at that and said, we want to accelerate that technology, we want to put a lot behind it. And so many of the key people were at Ink Tank and we don't want to compete with the guys that we wanted to partner with. And so in the end, we acquired the company and Sage and his team are at Red Hat and doing great. So let's break that down. I mean, 75, 80% of your business today is, you know, Rel Enterprise, the core infrastructure business that's growing nicely. But the other pieces of the business, you know, the Paz layer, the OpenShift and the emerging technologies that you call them out of the growing, you know, well, well into the double digits style, 30, 40, 50% per annum. Yeah, between 20 and 50%. So talk about where you see that all going. You know, give us your goals, the future. I know you can't guide too specifically, but where do you see Red Hat longer term? Well, I think that the core Rel business continues to grow at mid-teens. I love that our slow growth business is growing mid-teens, right? Most people, that would be their rockstar business. But then our other business are growing, you're right. Somewhere between 40 and 50% year-over-year and have been. I think we can continue that for a long time, right? I mean, those are newer markets. We have smaller share. We have even more disruptive technologies. And what happens over time if you do the simple math is your high growth business has become a larger share of your total. If you can maintain the growth rates, it accelerates your overall growth rate. So I'm hopeful that we can continue those growth rates where they both are, but as the higher growth stuff gets bigger, our absolute growth rate continues to accelerate. And that's what we're going to work hard to try to do over the next several years. And of course, everybody wants you to remain independent. The industry needs an independent company like Red Hat. So what do you got to do to maintain independence? Obviously, keep growing. Your market cap's going to be high. M&A is a part of that. Take us through sort of the vision of staying independent, becoming what I called the, what I saw from Joe Tucci, the small of the bigs. To enter that multi-billion, 10 plus billion dollar realm. Yeah, well, first off, we're proud that we kind of reach breakout velocity to get to where we are. I mean, so many companies get to 500 million to a billion and they get swallowed up, right? They can't get escape velocity to achieve that. And we achieve escape velocity, so we're there. Now, certainly we are a size, there are companies that could acquire us. But I think that, so there's several things. We love being independent, right? We love being independent. We think that we are differentiated in the market and what we're doing. And so executing every day, continuing to grow well, continuing to hit our quarters, to continue to frankly keep our valuation up. It makes us expensive to buy. We want to continue to add value. We have this huge TAM. We think we're worth a lot more than our current valuation. So we want to continue to drive that forward. We also, I think I have a natural defense, which is, in the same way I talked about other companies coming in that we look to buy and it's like, how do you tell your board I'm gonna bus up with no IP? Acquiring Red Hat would literally be the most expensive software deal ever done. Now imagine if anybody at anywhere go into their board and say, I want to buy this company called Red Hat, it'll be the most expensive software acquisition ever done. And they say, great, tell me about its IP. And you say, well, it has done. Now we do have revenue and profits, but we have zero IP, we're the people. So you got to imagine, you have to believe you can keep the people because if everybody walked across the street tomorrow and started blue shoe linux, right? You know, you're in trouble, right? So you got to keep the people and we're passionate about our culture and so I think that is a natural protection. And frankly, for me, my biggest problem that I think about more than anything else is how do I continue to grow and scale the culture? I mean, think about it, we're growing 20% a year. So you grow 20% and we have some natural attrition. So that means generally by the end of the year, 25% of our people have been at Red Hat less than a year. So think about scaling that company and doing that year over year. We're almost 8,000 people now. That means a year from now if we continue that kind of growth, we'll be near 10,000. And again, with some attrition, that means literally pick any day and time, 25% of our people have been at Red Hat a year or less. And when we are a capabilities-based organization that's all about our culture, I spend more time on that than I do on anything else. I mean, Jim, if I compound that with how fast the industry is changing, I mean, you talked about Kubernetes and Docker and everything, so you've got lots of new people and lots of new technology. How does the company keep up with it and does that just naturally change some of the culture along the way, too? I hope it doesn't change the culture too much. I actually don't think the technology side does. I actually think the Red Hat engineering culture, the open source ethos more, is kind of eating the engineering's world. I think the more difficult part on the culture side is as we become more strategic to our customers and as we offer a broader range of innovation, we need to be able to talk our customers' languages. So we're actively out there hiring great salespeople in oil and gas and in healthcare and in retail and in transportation. And they've obviously come from non-open source companies. So we got to make sure we're attracting the right people that are going to fit with our culture. And so we're naturally bringing in so many people who haven't been in open source before and inculcating them into who we are is a key piece that I worry could change our culture and that's something we're working to continue to drive. I'm curious your thoughts on the role of the CIO going forward. You talked about Red Hat is not only managing what happens internal, but you're working with outside communities. You're pulling ideas and the CIO of the future needs to be a broker of lots of technologies. So maybe we are kind of having some convergence between your culture and where business is going in general. Well, that's a little bit of what's in the book. I think it's not only CIOs, CIOs at the epicenter of it is you're now having to drive innovation in a whole new way. If you think about most CIOs and their senior organizations, if they came up through IT, grew up through the re-engineering era, which was all about take variants out, take variants out, automation, standardization, lean six sigma. And we're now saying, hey, we need to add some variants back because to do innovation and engagement, we need to add variants back. You're looking at these people. What I always tell CIOs is, to recognize the importance of the problem, go get 10 guys out of your ops group, and then go get 10 guys out of marketing and line them up and don't put name tags on them, but I guarantee you with almost 100% accuracy, just by looking at them, you can tell who are the IT folks and who are the marketing folks. Slightly different personalities. And it's how do you start to bring some of those personalities together? How do you bring an external focus, risk taking? I mean, one of the things in IT, most senior people in IT got there because they never took down production systems, right? And so, a high degree of skepticism, a high focus on zero error, et cetera, et cetera. No factor too, no, can't do that. Exactly, exactly. And so now how do you add more of that back, right? Failure's okay, but you've got to do it in small ways. And this is the whole DevOps things that people are worried about. And the discussions I have with CIOs now are sometimes about OpenShift and what we're doing, but often it's about, hey, organizationally, can I have, do I need to have the DevOps in one organization or can I keep them separate? Do I need to have a separate organization for mode one versus mode two? And are those different cultures? But I hate to build different cultures or how can I have one culture that can address my traditional ERP workloads but can also do this kind of next generation engagement stuff? And those are the problems that are, frankly, much more difficult than the technology problems. And those are the things exactly right that CIOs are struggling with. How do you build one culture that can do all of this? So I love that angle, that it's not really the technology, it's the opportunities, it's applying your culture, your model to those technological opportunities. One of the things we haven't talked about is, I mean, a little bit about storage and, but the data at SiliconANGLE, Wikibon, the QB. Love to, next billion dollar company, you know. We always talk about it in the Hadoop world. Will there be a red hat of Hadoop, right? That's been the question we've been asking since we started following Hadoop. And John Furrier one day said, you know who's going to be the red hat of Hadoop? Red hat. So, you know, now Hadoop, you know, it's morphing and it calls this big data analytics, but what's your data play? I wonder if you could talk about that a little bit. And can you be the red hat of big data? Well, I think that we have a unique model if we decided to be in that category. I think we could do a great job in that category. Today, though, we have so much that we're doing with infrastructure that it hadn't been a focus. And we have great partnerships with Cloudera and with Hortonworks. And so we look to drive it that way. Now, what we are doing, which I think is very foundational, is you need to have a way to store this huge amount of data. A low cost way to do it, store once to be able to use for multiple different purposes. So, we've invested heavily on the storage side of big data. So the EMC of big data. Well, that's the first layer. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, acquisitions at Gluster and Intank and we have Red Hat Storage now. So we have File Object Block. We think we have a great solution for next generation infrastructures, all software defined, all open. So a great platform there on which Hadoop can run, Spark can run, et cetera, et cetera. Whether or not we go further up that stack is something that we'll decide over time. We have such a big team already adding Morse. As open source goes, you go. I have to ask you about, I was talking about a young developer who just graduated from CMU. I said, what's really exciting is I can't wait to get Linux on an ARM processor. And I'm going to create the next internet of things company. I'm like, wow, I got to ask Red Hat, what's the status of ARM and, you know. So, well, we had a run yesterday and one of Red Hat engineers, John Masters, literally wore a cape and a shirt that said, Captain ARM. You know, we're actively involved in ARM. We've been very clear that we will, as soon as we get one of the major OEMs, delivering an ARM server, we will GA RHEL for 64-bit ARM. So, we're there. We've done the engineering. We're there. We'll certainly look to support it. That's exciting. So, that's a partner catalyst, right? So, you can't say this year or next year. It's sort of going to get the moons have to line up. I will say, I'm hoping it's this year. But really, that's much more about when we GA something, right, it's certified on something. And so, we need a something to certify. And so, as soon as one of the major OEMs puts out an ARM box, I'm sure you will see RHEL. Any new news on CFO search? Did you guys update the financial community? Yes, we did. So, I wish I had him here. So, Frank Calderoni from Cisco has joined us as our new CFO this week. And so, he literally, this was, yesterday was his first full day at the summit. He's great. I think the fact that we could attract somebody of that caliber and his stature to Red Hat demonstrates, you know, the, certainly the opportunity he sees in front of us. So, we are thrilled to have him on board. We just announced it. And you'll hear a lot more from him in the coming weeks. Awesome. Well, Jim Whitehurst, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. Appreciate you having us here at Red Hat Summit and sharing your knowledge with our community. That's been great to be here. Thank you for being here. You're welcome. All right, keep right there, everybody. Stu and I will be back with our next guest right after this. This is theCUBE, we're live from Red Hat Summit. We'll be right back.