 John Ross is back. He joins us from Deerfield, Massachusetts. John is an amazing comedian. He's been on Conan. He's an amazing comedy writer. He's written on Lucky Louis. He created Marvin Marvin. You're in a truck in the rain. I'm sitting outside my house in in a truck because the house is full of people and kids and, you know, not good for a podcast. I love the sound of the rain hitting the truck. Oh, great. Usually you're very sensitive. I listen to your podcast all the time and you're very sensitive about sounds and, you know, anything that's not exactly what you want auditorially. We started together. We did in the early 1980s. And we had Fred Stoller on the show who's written a new book, Five Minutes to Kill, about the 1989 Young Comedians special featuring Warren Thomas who you used to live with. He's mentioned prominently. I helped Fred a lot with that. I mean, we had long conversations on the phone and long emails back and forth. I got Warren started. He had never done stand-up comedy. And he was bartending at a discotheque in his silks. And you were wearing a comedy button. You were wearing a comedy button. I had gone to the very first comedy day in the park and they were giving out buttons and I think I got a button from like Jimmy Celeste. And I wore the button on my, you know, shirt that night and this place was just a zoo. This, you know, you just pour and drink and pour and drink and nobody's like hanging. But this one guy comes up to me and he sees the button and he says, you like comedy? And I go, yeah, you know, I actually, you know, did it in the city. And so he walked away and came back and over the course of the night we started talking. He actually at the end of the night, you know, because this place was open after hours and it's like four in the morning and he was coming back every time and making me laugh, telling me stories about how some girl slapped his face or some guy was about to kick his ass because he was dancing with his girlfriend or something. He was just being really funny. And so then he come, I'm cleaning up my bar. The lights are coming on. It's four in the morning. He comes over to me and he says, hey, you know, you like baseball? I go, yeah, because you want to go see a game at Candlestick. They're playing tomorrow. And I was like dying to go. And at that point I hadn't done anything. I was only like going out at night. You know what I mean? Like the comedians were like vampires. We never got together during the day or anything. And so he goes, you want to go see a game? I go, yeah, that would be great. So he takes a math book and he writes in it and he hands it to me. And I open it up and I look at it and it says, Warren, five, two, seven, seven, seven, two, four, your new Negro friend. And I just like, I bust out like laughing and I look at him and he's just got that giant smile that impish kind of just teeth all the way. And he's just kind of like laughing. And then we went to, and I picked him up at his mom's house in Albany. And we went to the game. And like from the minute I picked him up, he had me in stitches. And I remember we're like waiting in line to get into Candlestick Park. And you know, we're in the car and like to park. And we're sitting there and we're laughing and we're talking. And so we're sort of distracted. So when we pull up to the parking attendant, like we don't have our money ready. So we're like, oh, oh, and like, I'm like trying to fish around in my pocket and Warren's kind of like fishing around in his pocket. And it's taking like a while. And, and Warren just like leans across me out, you know, to the windows of the parking attendant and goes, we're going to hold a fundraising dinner and we'll get back to you. And I'm like, Oh my God, this is good guys, hilarious. So then we get into the park. And then he starts like doing this bit, which he must have done before he couldn't have been completely improvising it, but he was sort of improvising it where he was doing. He called it the national inquirer play by play, where he would go as a sharp ground ball to Juan Jury Bay, who was picking his wife last night. He goes, and there's the throw to, you know, oh, scoops nicely by Will Clark, who was picking up a 15 year old. He's just all this kind of lascivious, you know, stuff mixed in with like play by play. And it was like seamless and hilarious. And I'm just like, Oh my God, this guy did like a genius. And so that night we went back, I went back to his house and I'm sitting around with him and his brother. And I said, Oh my God, you've got to do stand up. Like you've got to be, you know, go to the clubs and do an open mic. And it's really interesting what he said. He said, I know I couldn't, I wouldn't know who to be. And what do you mean you wouldn't know who to be? And he's like, I mean, would I like, would I be Rickle's or would I be, you know, and he, and I kind of get that because he didn't fit any of the molds, you know, like he wasn't like a typical black comedian. Like that's what was kind of, even at that point, Def Jam hadn't even really started, but there still was that kind of, like he wasn't prior, you know what I mean? He wasn't going to talk about, you know, black versus white. He was, he was going to just, he was so himself, he was just himself, but he didn't know what that meant quite. And I said, look, don't worry about that. And he was just, I can't, I can't, I can't. I said, tell you what, come with me. I'm, you know, performing tomorrow night or I'm signing up tomorrow night at the Holy City Zoo and watch the other people who go on stage. And I promise you, you're going to say to yourself, look, I may suck, I may be awful, but I'm not going to be as bad as, you know, and I don't want to name all the names that you know the names I'm talking about. You're talking to one of them right now. Well, no, I mean, there were some people you remember. And so if it's exactly what happened, I mean, he watched and he went, oh my god, and so he went up, you know, the next night and then that was it. And you know, were you there? It took off. Yeah, sure. Was he nervous? Yeah, I think so. I think, you know, everybody's a little bit nervous, but, you know, he was, he's charming. He was unbelievably charming. So the first place he went up was the Holy City Zoo? As far as I know, yes. And what year was this? This guy, 80, it's either very late 81. Yeah, that's what I would figure. Yeah. Very late 81. So, yeah, that would be about when it was. And when did you move in together? That was later. I had, when I first, I lived in Oakland when I first moved there. And that was craziness. And then I moved in with Warren Spotswood. Oh my god. Yeah. Now that was, there was another genius, Warren Spotswood. Yeah, right. He was a big influence on me. He started taking LSD with him. And that sort of, like, broke my mind open. And I lived with Warren and his wife and their crazy dog. And if you remember that English bull terrier. And then... Oh, no, no, no. The Wonder Dog. Yeah. Max. Maxwell. Maxwell the Wonder Dog. Yeah, Maxwell the Wonder Dog. Warren Spotswood used to host a show at cops. And he would bring up acts with Maxwell the Wonder Dog. This predated, well, maybe Letterman was dropping TVs from the balcony. But Maxwell the Wonder Dog in between acts would destroy things. Yeah. He was, remember the first Honda Civics that came over? They were really tiny. I don't know if you remember. The first Honda Civics, it was like the first kind of compact car. They were really small. And they had these little tiny donut tires. I thought I'd dog bite and pop a car tire. You know what Warren Spotswood told me? That the dog would start to shiver whenever he was walking him by cops. That the dog associated stage fright with cops because he performed there. When they drove by cops, Maxwell would start barking and then start shivering like a nervous performer. What kind of dog was Maxwell? English bull terrier. The same kind of dog that Patton had. The Spuds McKenzie. The English bull terrier. But he was a sweet dog who just liked to destroy things. He was a sweet dog with people. I think you had to keep him away from other dogs. And he liked like an empty plastic milk carton would make him berserk. He would bite it. He would try to bite it and it would shoot away from him. And it would like squirt down the street. And then finally he would like get some purchase on it. He would get one paw on it and then a tooth would go in. And then it would be like he just like plastic would be like ripping up like a cartoon. And his mouth would get bloody because you know the piece of the plastic would go into his gums and stuff. And it would just be like a bloody mess. And it was ferocious. It was so ferocious. Now Warren Spotsford was older than we were. He had a previous life as a trombone player in your mother's mustache. Your father's mustache. And they appeared on the Ed Sullivan show. So he had an entire background in show business that had nothing to do with stand-up. He was also the most literate of us. Yeah. Yeah. From Alabama? Was he from Alabama? He's somewhere down south. He definitely had that you know southern drawl. And you know those guys you know they sound like almost slightly gay. You know that kind of like a dandy but he was quite the ladies man. I remember you know you used to sound gay whenever you did this. And that's the sound of a penis in my mouth is that? No. A canapé. Just you eating a fancy canapé at a cocktail party. He had a big influence on a Whitney Brown. Warren Spotsford. Yes, I believe so. And LSD. And I think that was also LSD. Tell me about LSD because I've never done LSD. And I tell people not to do LSD. But some people say it has some kind of curative effect and mind-altering effect. Oh it does have the mind-altering effect. And you know they're using it now in like with terminal patients you know who are having problems facing death. And it apparently works amazingly well for that. Because they want to die? No because they just you know they see kind of through to the other side and have this acceptance and there's this sort of you do have these moments of feeling like oh I get it all. I get you know things that you understand intellectually like that everything is interconnected and all these things. You suddenly like really see it and feel it and you think you're going to bring it back to you know your quote you know normal time and and then when it wears off it's kind of like you can't quite touch that feeling again but you did have it and there's it changes you somehow. It's almost like I felt like you only have to do it once kind of like the first it's never is it the first time you do it is sort of the most sort of mind-blowing and then it's a little bit diminished the next time you do it and a little bit diminished and certainly it's almost like your brain needs to reset I found like if you tried to do it you know a week after you did it the last time it was not nearly but if you waited six months or a year and did it again it was a more powerful exposure neurotic exposure neurotic and paranoid. You know I think I'm fairly neurotic and fairly paranoid. I mean I don't know LSD was also a long especially the first time I did it it lasted it seemed you know the trip was almost 12 hours and then there was this kind of aster glow but there was a bunch of material that I did early on that came out of that first like I tripped and then the next place to be a substance in school teacher remember and I went in the next day and I you know it was the next day I thought I was fine but I was still you know kind of in a somewhat altered state and then I did a bit about you know teaching on LSD that I did for a long time don't even remember it now but it was a funny big part of my hack it was really crazy um I don't know but it was it was it was a big commitment to do the LSD I only did it so many times mushrooms I felt a little better about because they're natural and like the high wasn't quite as intense and it didn't last so long I got prevented was a guy who had never done anything like he didn't drink he didn't do anything and then he suddenly wanted to experiment and I did mushrooms with him and I think that was like the beginning of him like going crazy not crazy but like really starting to do a lot of different stuff um so yeah so I you know I remember Cobbs but I remember a guy named Frank Prenzy used to say to me oh where's Frank but send out the fast thing I would love to talk to Frank I'd searched for him in so many ways Facebook and everything he disappeared we were friends in San Francisco then in LA and then he left he went back to Buffalo and I've just never been able to you know I would just love to say hi this is what I remember this is what I remember yeah early 80s Ross is tending bar at Cobbs the show would be over at Cobbs the doors would be locked and you were tending bar and by tending bar you were just giving everybody free drinks do I remember correctly that there were a couple of nights a week where it was announced that Ross was tending bar at Cobbs and all the alcoholics would run down there and get wasted I mean I just had bar but I was I was a conscientious bartender I I only gave you know drinks to anybody that Ron Kikiki wanted me to give drinks to I wasn't sneaking anything um to anybody I don't think I mean you own the place it was like you owned the place you would go behind the bar and just start pouring it was yeah it was just we were big fish in a small pond the fact that you know you just walk in and walk behind the bar and take a beer and go hey uh you know I want to go on uh next like pump whoever's next and put me on you know and they and they would you know it was um it was magic warren thomas so yeah so then he you know and then then he and I started doing this thing like he was a little bit of a bad influence on me in a way because you know we started doing the thing where we started making fun of other comedians using their act you know what I'm talking about I remember like you remember that and it was like and and I was good at it because it was it was almost like a sandy van sandy van is walking to the mound and she's saying throw this picture out throw this picture out right like a gray one like remember barry sobo used to do this bit about um Jesus you know uh it's my body and I'll die if I want to die if I want to you would die too if they crucified you remember that yeah and so then we would turn that into uh it's my act and I'll die if I want to die if I want you would die too if you're an annoying Jew we would take people to act and twist it into you know into a thing that made fun and and and and kermits would like circle us me and warren they get in a circle around us and start like shouting names and go don't do bob saggett you know or do bob saw a lot do yeah and we would just like ridicule people and they're going what I remember it was hysterical yeah and it it was hysterical except it was mean and you know people started like not liking us and I started not you know realizing oh this isn't a good you know way to be really and I did a certain point find that um warren's humor was all kind of mean spirited it was all cut down it was all put down it was he was brilliant but he just was pretty mean spirited and not to mention you know it was too much partying like I couldn't see his constitution was crazy yeah but let's go back to let's go back to making fun let's go back to making fun of the other comedians I remember that and I remember thinking why are they watching all these comedians why are they wasting time sitting watching all these horrible comedians why aren't they working on their acts well because you had a hangout to go on I mean you you know you were there and there was no it was just in the air you you absorbed all these people's acts you know well a lot of but a lot of come I didn't I didn't I didn't sit and watch the acts I hated watching bad comedy I hated it you know what you're absolutely right you know that it was a it's a waste of and so did Jake I think Jake I think I think I remember you said to me when you fell in love with Jake I remember you you had you just fell in love with Jake and you said to me unlike Warren Jake doesn't sit and watch other acts and mock them he just works on his bits I'm not only that I mean what I what I found is that Jake and I could be funny together like we could have fun and riff together and it didn't seem to be at anybody's expense right like it was just funny and we would bounce back and forth and I could and I felt good about it whereas with Warren it only seemed to be oh let's make fun of someone and I didn't like that and I also you know I think this guy could every single night go out and he could operate on no sleep you know and he was unbelievable and I wanted to be healthy and I wanted to be you know emotionally healthy and so yeah I grabbed and Jake and and previously used to lift weights at this one um you know Jim and I started going with them and working out with them and it just I was just trying to turn my life around right and so I I kind of had to distance myself from Warren who was just kind of going into a darker and darker place and I think the cocaine kind of changes your personality so how many years were you in war and tight you know I'd say from 82 to 84 five you know it would could Jake and I became really close some time and you know 83 84 you know so there was kind of a crossover where I was really good friends with both of them but I just had to start making the transition and then by 86 Jake you know won the comedy competition moved to LA and then I followed a year later that's that's a whole funny story right but back to back to Warren for a second back to Warren for a second as Fred Stoller has a new book out called five minutes to kill it's a kindle single he talks about the 1989 HBO young comedian special that he did with guys like Warren Thomas yeah now I don't think people I think people think this is hyperbole but it's a fact Warren would knock you to your knees with his comedy he would stand over you and riff where you were just curled up in a fetal position laughing hysterically and sometimes the police had to be called we got thrown out this is a true story there's a guitarist named Stevie Gure from San Francisco he warned and I went to a Giants game and I was there when Warren came up with the booty lick bit do you remember the booty lick bit yeah the guy selling booty like yeah so we're talking and I watched him come up with I said I bet the concessions are different in every stadium right like San Francisco such a gay community they probably have concessions that are geared towards the gays and he immediately goes get your booty lick warm fresh booty lick and I start laughing and then it's like young man I'll have a booty lick and then he acts out the guy you know trying to walk through the stands bending over and the guy's then he acts he does Terry Gillespie making a funny face doing his booty lick and while the guy's licking him the vendor's screaming booty lick warm fresh booty lick and then he starts doing the wife going Sidney you've had three booty licks today hey listen bitch it's Sunday it's a doubleheader I work all week if I want to have a booty lick and yeah I start well Stevie Gure and I are laughing so I mean like where you're you know I have a loud laugh already yeah it turned into a scream where like I'm just ah and security I don't remember if they threw us out but I do remember like six times being told to stop laughing because Warren wouldn't I mean he was killing me what was your bit about Dave hang on for one second Dave Dravecki yeah what what do you remember who was Dave Dravecki what were his politics what happened to him I believe in Montreal and then what happened to him when he came back to play for the Giants do you remember your bit about the heckler I don't I never forgot it oh I apparently have Dave Dravecki got cancer he got a tumor in his arm and uh and then got it got the tumor cut out and then he um rehabilitated and came back but then broke his arm on a pitch like with through hard enough that his arm broke it was like it was like the game it was the baseball version of Joe's thysman yes and he broke his arm and it sounded like a gunshot it was like it was a crack you could hear it in the stands it was just horrifying yeah was it in Montreal was it in Montreal that it happened I don't think so they may have been playing Montreal I thought it happened at Campbell 6 okay and then he came back right it was a big emotional thing that he came back but we found out he didn't we find out that he was a member of the John Birch society didn't we find out that a lot of those Giants were very conservative yeah and I remember you had this I remember he came back and it was very emotional and he was pitching and he didn't do well when he came back and you were acting out the mean heckler screaming go back and bake that arm a few more minutes I remember you going to make that arm you were referring to chemo and radiation is baking the arm and you were screaming at him because he's losing go back to the hospital and get that arm baked a few more minutes before you but Warren would say Warren would make you laugh as right yes and I think you know the problem Warren he was it was a classic case of you had to be there like he couldn't recreate it he could do it in the moment but he didn't know how to kind of set up a thing like he couldn't do the thing about hey they have different you know foods at different stadiums and what about like or he could but he was just never nearly as like he automatically naturally said things in a funny way he would be exact opposite of every other comedian who like says things and then the next time polishes it and hones it and gets it a little bit better and then the next time you know says it a little bit better you just keep kind of improving it he automatically the first time he said something that was the maximum funny it was going to be and then every time he said it again it got diminished he couldn't repeat you know things he really had to rip because what robin williams does is a magic trick he is making it look like he is coming up with this stuff off the top of his head and it was almost like warren didn't get that he saw it as that's what he was really doing and like i'm going to try that and it's a testament to what a genius warren was is that he almost could he could almost go on stage and just riff and talk and the more he tried to repeat material that he already did like that always sat a little flat you know what i mean it was it was in it was when he was being authentic and in the moment and just kind of talking as as if he was at the stadium with you and just coming up with this stuff was when he was at his most fun you know i'm reading i just i just finished mort sol's new biography and it's a comedy that's rooted in jazz where you really don't repeat the same notes and i often wonder had warren been able to find a safer place to perform where he could have just rift do his jazz riffs um that's interesting you open for mort sol at cobs this is what i remember mort sol was playing cobs you were supposed to open for mort sol and then you slept through your set and you took your watch as a public display you took your watch and stomped on it do you remember that yeah it was one of the things where it's like oh this is so important to me i want to be such a good job it's like i want to take a nap and like be like super charged and fresh for this like so i'm gonna take a nap and i'm gonna drink a cup of coffee and go in and yeah you know i set the watch to you know the alarm for p.m. instead of a m or vice versa or whatever it was and i overslept but then there was also the problem i mean i ended up i think i missed one of the shows but i didn't miss the other show but he didn't want like i so wanted to open for him and then introduce him and he didn't want that he he he wanted distance he i was allowed to do my set but then we had to take a break and then he wanted like to be introduced for offstage and walk on like he didn't want to be associated at that time um and it was i kind of hurt my feelings i really wanted a bunch of like political right but he doesn't want that but that's but that's what that's the classic story of the political satirist pulling into town and the the booker thinking oh he does political humor will get our political our local political satirist to poison the well for our headlighter right we should have ventriloquist you know the other ventriloquist the exact opposite exactly you know i also remember about this he was playing cobs and larry brown larry bubbles brown had a trans am yeah the firebird the firebird he said he would pick mort up at the airport so he picks mort up because mort's a big fan of cars you know so oh you know yeah so it's a rainy night in san francisco and larry picks up mort and they're getting along and larry made the mistake of finding a parking spot on chestnut and he just pulls in and it's pouring rain and they walk to cobs and it never occurred to larry that maybe he would drop mort off in front of cops so he wouldn't get wet and mort mort he said he so later that night leg is mort stop talking to me i don't understand why i said retrace your steps yeah so you said you and i stopped talking what happened i can't believe you don't remember any of this like there's so many people who have stopped talking to me how can i what well you you should drive me crazy in a in a million different ways but and i and i remember one time we were on the phone and we were having some conversation and you i don't know how we we were talking about saturday night live and you said that the best cast member of all time was garret morris okay you remember you remember this okay yeah i remember saying that yeah and that he he was the most talented the most funny of anybody who had ever done um snl and i i was like ha ha ha that's very funny you're like no i'm serious i go yeah that's a very funny joke it's a very funny bit to maintain that garret morris who probably was the least funny of anybody who had ever done the show who wasn't even a comedian who's like an opera singer or something you know and to say that he was funny that he was the funniest he was funnier than chaser bill barry or anybody that i ha ha i go no i'm serious and i go yeah come on and you go no i am serious and like you wouldn't let it go and it's like how can we have a conversation how can we have fun together if like you're just going to be an asshole like if that's all he would just are you maintaining now to this day that garret morris is still the best person who's ever did sarah i think i at one point i believe that i thought he was you really believe this we're going to come back in 1987 or something talking to you but anyway i just remember i remember thinking there was a period when he used to make me laugh really hard and he was underappreciated what can i tell you okay just so that's why we stopped talking it was over garret morris there was a there was a million things you would let me write this down hang on hang on let me write this down because as you know i'm in a personal crisis a lot of people aren't talking to me so garret morris let me make a note to myself never say garret morris was the funniest let me go let me that's that's the specific let me go to the general no no go to specific i want to hear specifics not i'm gonna say don't say things purposely to piss people off that's that that would be the general so but you would do it a lot where you would say something purposely to instigate and then not back down and and like demand that you actually weren't saying it for that reason and you were being authentic whatever it was give me an example we were the big remember the strike um i guess it was the lead up to the strike what year was that the writers 2008 2000 and 2007 2007 so it's 2007 and you and i were going to a lot of the meetings oh i do remember this i do remember this yes yeah i do remember that and hang on for a second all i remember is going to a writer's guild meeting before the strike yep and speaking and then you got really mad at me well here's what happened we were there okay and the person was talking i think it might have been pat varone who was tell people who patrick varone is patrick varone was at that time president of the wga he's a writer he wrote for future rama the simpsons a bunch of other stuff and and he was um uh you know an organizer and uh and it became the president and he was talking and you had some problem you were saying that he had had a meeting with roger ailes or something like that but whatever it was you were talking really loudly about him to me but you weren't talking to me you were using me to talk to everyone else in the room like you know what i'm saying like you weren't really you were trying to make some point and you were using me as if i was part of this conversation and but you were really trying to say other things to other people you wanted to be heard and it's like look you want to say things to people say things to people you want to accuse him of stuff but don't like use me as your pawn and you kept kind of interrupting or he was talking and you were trying to say things to the people around us by going hey i heard even whatever it was and i got up and i moved away from you because i just wanted to listen to the speech you know whatever he was saying and i got up and i moved away from you and you got really indignant about that you hurt your feelings or something and then you came over to me and you at the end of this and you said i hope you don't something about i hope you never treat your daughter the way you treat me or like something like that and you impure my fatherhood the way i raised my daughter and i was like no no no no no no you don't talk about how i raised my daughter you know you said something like don't you said something like that i remember that you know what i remember that you and that and i was just like hey you know what you just kept it you were very crazy at that time and you were getting super duper jewy and super duper like proselytizing like you wanted me to come to your temple all the time and you know i've got a bit of a thing with that you know my brother lives in israel and he's super duper jewy and i am basically an atheist and i don't know it and you were kind of crazed i thought i you know i do remember this is what i remember now that you bring it up got patrick verrone was either running for president of the writer's guild or was president of the writer's guild but we were gearing up for a strike and john wells who at the time was the showrunner an owner of he john wells owned er he owned the west wing and it was definitely a bubbling there's no question those are conflict well let me let me explain to the audience i need to explain to the audience okay go yeah and i remember getting up and speaking whoop i just hit the mic i remember getting up at the writer's guild and saying i want to know why john wells is the president of our union he is management he owns the west wing he owns er and yet we have to negotiate with the owners to determine what our benefits are he's one of the owners how can you be excuse me for one second excuse me for one second i i said is john wells a writer because i heard that john wells is not a writer that he takes a writer's credit and he sits around a table and says we'll use this bit and that bit and that bit and this bit but he's not actually writing so why is he allowed to own a television show and take a writing credit and how are we going to get a reliable negotiation going without a legitimate interlocutor and i i think you were pissed off that i use the term interlocutor i'm i'm pissed off again may i may i speak now yeah you're 100 correct i mean and i share those same you know concerns i don't believe you got up and spoke at whatever meeting we were at together you may have spoke no no i did i remember specific i remember that night now i remember specifically getting up hang on for one second i remember get because i used to get very emotional at these writers guild meetings and yes and i remember specifically that night i remember you were there and i remember what i remember specifically saying can anybody show me a script that john wells wrote by himself you say he's a writer i would like to see a script that the president of this union has actually written and and and some people some people applauded and said you're absolutely right and some people got really pissed off and you didn't want to be associated with me i didn't want to be associated when you were using me you were talking to me to talk to other people like you were saying to me i wanted to see a script that he's written as opposed to getting up and i did i did get up and say that well we have to agree to disagree my pro i i was like fine get up and see whatever you want i did don't say it to me okay well we'll agree to disagree now look it's a tricky situation because you know tb writing isn't like writing you're not like a novelist you're not like a magazine your journalist it is look you know i've some great great great head writers that i've worked with they are like conductors they're sitting at the head of the table and people are saying different things and they're going to get that no not not this and they're and they they can write and they have written but they don't necessarily that's not necessarily the job at that moment but they are definitely writers you know all right let me hang on ownership issue ownership issue is it it's hard you're negotiating against yourself can henry ford can henry ford build a model t can henry ford work the assembly line how would i know how would i know henry ford i don't know let me let me answer the question go ahead henry ford could work the assembly line he invented the model t he knows how to make a model t now he owns the company and he's hiring people right to make the model t is he's still a manufacturer is he still on the assembly line working make hang on for one second answer my question because i remember this argument it was 10 years ago and i got up and said this in public not only to you but to the to the writer's guild and i said just because henry ford who owned ford knew how to make a model t didn't mean that he was on the assembly line and deserves to take a credit for making model t's he graduated to owner which means he doesn't get to say he's part of the assembly line oh that's what i said all right and so it would be the question and it would be the equivalent what's going on that would be the equivalent of henry ford negotiating for the assembly line on behalf of the assembly he'd be negotiating against himself okay and that's what john wells was doing he was an owner negotiating your okay that's the point that's the issue it isn't whether he's written a script you show me a script matthew weiner is a writer you don't think matthew weiner is not a writer he writes episode he wrote episodes of madmen plenty of them but he also owned the show so you know show me an episode he wrote okay here but he's not negotiating on behalf of me he's not negotiating on behalf of the rank and file right because he's the owner it's immature whether he's written a script or not but john wells was representing me john wells was representing me i know i know i know how do you represent the rank and file if you're not part of the rank and file it's a legitimate question and i understand i don't know what you want me to say well that's that's what that's what i said that night and you and i had a blow up and i said to you all i innocently said is that you are beating your daughter it's munchausen by proxy you're not giving her the the medication she needs and then you give it to her so you can be the hero i said you're starving her you keep her chained to a radiator i need to call child protective services i said you murdered john bennett ramsey that's all i said and you took it and i appreciate that you said it innocently i said it innocently and you took it out of context you took it the wrong way but you know what i apologize and i hope that my apology so is that why we stop talking well it was it it was it i would say it was a number of things i thought you were acting crazier all the time and it seemed like all of my conversations with you kind of ended in me being frustrated like you were just sort of spinning out of control and i i got agita when i would speak with you and i could go you know what i need to speak with delvin less and i think it just sort of it became less and less and you know you got busy with your stuff and i got busy with my stuff you know we both had kids and you know we just sort of stopped talking and then you know i didn't see you for a long time and then i remember i saw you at the before dad's show do you remember that was the first time i saw you in like a really long time and we were at the four dad's show which was who's that milk and dan st paul and tim bidore and some other guy and and when you saw me you started doing this thing you try to we're doing a bit where you were like flinching every time like i would move like i was gonna hate you and i was kind of like don't flatter yourself that like i'm so angry when i see you i'm like i'll punch you like oh my god like as if i'm thinking about you that much so but let me just say hang on one second you weren't consumed by me no not right now i am now good yeah i also remember you complained i would call you with nothing to say yeah like i would yes yeah and now now i would love that now yeah my life is falling apart and like i hear from you and i'm so happy i listen to your podcast just to hear your voice like make believe talking to me and then my name comes up when you're talking to jake or rad or something and i'm so happy it's like it's unbelievable i'm so lonely and miserable and my life has fallen apart you made me you made me laugh so hard and my listeners are gonna laugh really hard i'm gonna sell them what you did you were you were going through some kind of emotional thing so i call you and i'm saying hang in there this too shall pass you're a great guy you got to treat yourself as well as you treat others you get you need to be kind to yourself you didn't do anything wrong and you said thank you so much and we're we're wrapping up the phone call and you say and do all your amazon shopping no you imitated me yes imitated you i know i'm saying they wrap up a phone call now going for only five dollars a month you can become the three i think that you'll get some solace from the premium content i think that will make you feel better well i also think you resented my optimism that i'm basically an optimistic person and i don't think you should be right and i think you find that detestable i think you think it's fake um i don't know i don't know if i could say that maybe i'm jealous of it do you believe that there are neural pathways created through optimism john fuel saying who has every reason to be optimistic right i know but he said to me you do a 90 day positive thinking negative thinking cleanse cleanse yourself of negative thinking only think positive for 90 days he says it creates neural pathways here's what i did i i tried it at the beginning of the year i decided to write down all the good things in my life and the more i did that the more good came my way do you believe in that you know i i don't know but i mean i think i should and i think there's no harm in believing and trying it um i guess there's a part of me sometimes that i feel like i'm i'm being false you know what i mean like i'm being fake like i'm just saying these things that i don't believe and it's like i want to be honest with myself and call myself a piece of shit you know what i mean and and not uh you know it like somehow i will overcome these problems if i can really face you know the truth of them and then overcome them rather than try to deny some you know um deny some truth but i absolutely i think that i need to you know um really believe and i'm trying i always talk about apollo 13 on the show yes the opportunity and then that's that the chinese word for crisis is opportunity crisis is opportunity yeah well i mean i'm an absolute crisis now well but the movie apollo 13 ed harris is running mission control and the aquarius is falling apart and he says all right tell me what we have in the way of good like it's all falling apart give me some good information here yes so i i never forgot that i'm not quoting it precisely i wish i were right i think i think when you focus on the good the universe rewards you and when you focus on the bad it just perpetuates the bad yeah you know it's newtonian things in motion stay in motion when you focus on the good it's that stays in motion when you focus on the bad that stays in motion right and i'm in this place where i just feel like i you know by denying what's going on the bad like i'm somehow not acknowledging you how much it it hurts but you have to kind of sit in the sadness and also at the same time i try to focus on the good but as jake told me the other day he said look you're standing in the bottom of a smoking crater you know the bomb just went off step one is getting out of the crater so you know i i need to you know not try too hard right now to you know fix everything and all the positive thinking like you're gonna give myself a little bit of space right so time you are you know do you mind if i tell the audience that you're the only person in the history of civilization to have somebody fall out of love with you do you mind if i mention that no you can go ahead because yeah it's true so you are the only person you're the only man in the history of civilization to discover that a person who you love no longer loves you and that's yeah and you're the only one who ever went through that i feel like you're being sarcastic um it's horrible you know i kind of it's it's it's it's horrible my it was my whole conception of myself it's the whole reason i moved you know to massachusetts was all right we'll talk about that well it's okay yeah let's i don't like to do i don't want to have fun you're already well here's the thing about this the mission statement of this show i don't want to talk about people's problems i want to talk about how they solve them people's solutions the final solution cycle and no i i don't see any no i know it's no fresh and so raw but i do need your you're absolutely right and i'm gonna um and you're gonna call me every day and give me the pep talk well tell me what you're doing tell me what you're doing that's positive because you're you're fresh the wound is fresh tell me some good news well you know i'm reconnecting you know i i disconnected from you know people like you and you know i'm fortunate with jake like we can go a really long time without talking and pick up right where we left off but you know people that i was really close to like jonathan groff you know i kind of i moved away from los angeles and i became this kind of homestead guy in the family guy and that became my whole identity so now it's like wait a minute i gotta reconnect and i'm so i'm reaching out and i'm being vulnerable i'm reaching back out to jonathan and to jake and to you and to you know all these people um and i'm and i'm trying to kind of recreate myself and find out you know what is it that i really want who am i outside of you know somebody's husband and um you know so that's helpful and i'm i'm rededicating myself to you know creating and you know writing and uh and and you know what you know the grief can be transformative if you let it and i'm gonna hope that this is going to be a tremendous opportunity to grow and i think my relationship with my daughter is going to improve looks like i sort of outsourced my relationship to my daughter to my wife and now now i'm gonna really forge a better relationship and so those are those are positive things right yeah and i'm gonna learn i'm learning german so that um when i go over there i can actually you know i'll be able to talk to one of your sons who's over there i know when you started doing stand-up when i started doing stand-up and then we'll wrap it up yeah i was in crisis and stand-up saved my life and what i did is i threw myself at the mercy of strangers i said i just went up on stage and you know like crowd surfing when the performer just dives into the audience and they carry him well that's kind of what stand-up is figuratively you throw yourself at the mercy of an audience and they heal you and then you have new friends and you become a different person i think that divorce i think crisis the only way you can survive is by throwing yourself at the mercy of the universe you're a bit of a control freak and i think and and so am i but if you just crowd surf you'll that's how you do it i don't you know i i think isolation is hell and i think not connecting with human beings for me the biggest problem is the fake connection of facebook and yeah the text text messaging a phone conversation is as close to human connection as you possibly can get especially if your pants are down around your ankles and you have a box of Kleenex and some Juergens which i do right now but connecting with people through text and facebook you got to get on the phone and talk and you got to see them in person you got to be around you got to be around people well i'm going to a little get together this afternoon with some people who you know are being supportive um yeah i mean that was my problem is that i isolated myself and i put all my chips you know i let my wife be you know my social life my you know i had no identity of my own and there was too much pressure on her she wanted me to you know be my own person but we also look no more problems just solutions let's stop boring your audience that would be a solution right now it would just just so funny to hear a gunshot yes well that's uh we've been talking with john ross yeah until all your amazon shopping for the david felvin show but well you know what you have i'm going to give you a compliment one of many but besides being incredibly funny and smart you you have an amazing memory it's just amazing and you're a great storyteller remember alex and i drove up to do a show in your neck of the woods and alex and i drove home and he could not believe what a great storyteller you were in and your memory always always the attention to detail you can remember things from 30 years ago getting worse remind me next time to tell you the rodney danger field story about memory it's pretty hilarious from when i worked on hollywood squares that's a great story um i i appreciate the compliment i love you my friend i do i love myself too i love you too we've been talking with john ross how do people contact you on facebook or twitter you know i don't do twitter i'm on facebook but i don't really post or anything like i said i've been isolated i don't know that i'm i'm gonna start breaking out on social media anytime soon but um if people are free to contact me on facebook i guess thank you john you'll come back real soon stay on the line for one second